If Uthman's standardized codex was accepted - why are verses being changed back to the companions?
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Here we can see Hythem Sidky showing a Syrian Uthmanic Quran where verses have been changed back to the codex of Ubay ibn Kab whose reading was popular in Syria.
In Q2:137 in the second example manuscript Arabe 331 has a variant āmanū bimā (“believe in that”) instead of the standard āmanū bi-mithli mā (“believe in that which is similar to”). This variant is recorded as being found in the muṣḥafs of the Companions Ibn Masʿūd and Anas b. Mālik and the Successor Abū Ṣāliḥ. IbnʿAbbās is also reported to have disliked the ʿUthmānic reading, which contains bi-mithl, as he considered God to have “no equivalent (laysa lahū mathīl).
Great video, thanks man
Just like biblical and historical evidence proves that jesus and his apostles were vegatarians biblical and historical evidence also proves that the trinity, atonement, original sin and hell are very late misinterpretations and are not supported by the early creed hence its not a part of Christianity I pray that Allah swt revives Christianity both inside and out preserves and protects it and makes its massage be witnessed by all people but at the right moment, place and time
The secred text of the Bible says ye shall know them by their fruits
So too that I say to my christian brothers and sisters be fruitful and multiply
Best regards from a Muslim ( line of ismail )
thanks for all of your content, Quranic variants is one my favorite topic to learn!
Just like biblical and historical evidence proves that jesus and his apostles were vegatarians biblical and historical evidence also proves that the trinity, atonement, original sin and hell are very late misinterpretations and are not supported by the early creed hence its not a part of Christianity I pray that Allah swt revives Christianity both inside and out preserves and protects it and makes its massage be witnessed by all people but at the right moment, place and time
The secred text of the Bible says ye shall know them by their fruits
So too that I say to my christian brothers and sisters be fruitful and multiply
Best regards from a Muslim ( line of ismail )
He literally answered your question.
So what? The question is already how old the variants are. But the thing is, that the Quran was given to Mohammed who didn't write it himself but dictated it to writers who wrote it on different materials which just were at hand. That's why there were variants. That doesn't make much because the variants didn't change the major statements of the Quran. It's just the same as with the Bible. There are also countless variants but the major statements are unchanged.
bro just stop being a preacher
@@louisdeniau8571 You are an idiot! I'm not preaching but telling facts. If you can prove them false do it. Otherwise better keep your mouth shut.
@@louisdeniau8571 You are an idiot! I'm not preaching but telling facts! If you can prove them false do it! Otherwise you should better keep your mouth shut.
هُوَ ٱلَّذِىٓ أَنزَلَ عَلَيْكَ ٱلْكِتَـٰبَ مِنْهُ ءَايَـٰتٌۭ مُّحْكَمَـٰتٌ هُنَّ أُمُّ ٱلْكِتَـٰبِ وَأُخَرُ مُتَشَـٰبِهَـٰتٌۭ ۖ فَأَمَّا ٱلَّذِينَ فِى قُلُوبِهِمْ زَيْغٌۭ فَيَتَّبِعُونَ مَا تَشَـٰبَهَ مِنْهُ ٱبْتِغَآءَ ٱلْفِتْنَةِ وَٱبْتِغَآءَ تَأْوِيلِهِۦ ۗ وَمَا يَعْلَمُ تَأْوِيلَهُۥٓ إِلَّا ٱللَّهُ ۗ وَٱلرَّٰسِخُونَ فِى ٱلْعِلْمِ يَقُولُونَ ءَامَنَّا بِهِۦ كُلٌّۭ مِّنْ عِندِ رَبِّنَا ۗ وَمَا يَذَّكَّرُ إِلَّآ أُو۟لُوا۟ ٱلْأَلْبَـٰبِ ٧
He it is Who has sent down to thee the Book: In it are verses basic or fundamental (of established meaning); they are the foundation of the Book: others are allegorical. But those in whose hearts is perversity follow the part thereof that is allegorical, seeking discord, and searching for its hidden meanings, but no one knows its hidden meanings except Allah. And those who are firmly grounded in knowledge say: "We believe in the Book; the whole of it is from our Lord:" and none will grasp the Message except men of understanding. chapter 3
Why is there variants in the Quran when it was dictated directly by Gabriel? If we assume the Companions made a mistake, what is preventing the mistakes being made elsewhere. The way Quran is projected leaves no room for human error of any sort.
Your be ignorant to think the Quran is preserved to perfection. No classical Muslim scholar ever thought that the Quran was perfectly preserved, why do you think uthman order the other Qurans to be burnt . This perfectly preserved idea comes from modern day scholars the fact that Allah says no one can corrupt his book and then we find that the oldest Quranic manuscripts have thousand variants and words missing and verses missing is a sign that maybe it’s not a book from god?
@@towbiyah998
Read this position to understand why uthman(as:) burnt the scribes of the quran to what was its hiqma::
they don't change the meaning. The word variant you see are common mistakes that accord during copying.And uthman burnt all the copies that had this kinds of mistakes in writing, pronunciation etc .
Read this position to understand why uthman(as:) burnt the scribes of the quran to its respect::
If you knew taht if the quran is old and can not be used any more than the right way to dipose it is to burn it and dispose those ashes in some way that it couldn't have human contact. This is a traditional way to respect the quran when it can't be further used is to disintegrate it.
@@towbiyah998 do you know what we read in five times a day in our prayer's? it's preserved in human Brain not in written text Muslim pray five time's a day and remind all those verses and in ramadan we remind the whole Quran so in this tradition making changes is impossible and this praying five times a day and Ramadan is performed by prophet Muhammad SAW himself and you can find million of people's memorizing in the same language variations that you're talking it's not Quran variations it's language variations with the same meaning
@@hamzaslife1234 your scholars disagree with you
“czcams.com/video/pqESGCBsO2w/video.html” shabir allley talking about the preservation is not what people think
“czcams.com/video/qVM5mYOQjIY/video.html” Muhammad hijab changing his mind about preservation
“czcams.com/video/78gGIfUo72I/video.html” farid agrees that the old scholars did not promote that the Quran was preserved.
“czcams.com/video/VIX2KZ61iq8/video.htmlsi=L8O-9wGI8crSS2J9” Yasu Quadi getting hatred from other Muslims for saying the Quran has holes.
“czcams.com/video/Av_auvFatlk/video.htmlsi=Jc2ahYjVl1S7GqaJ” Chris explaining the different Qurans .
@@towbiyah998 i watched all of these videos that you mentioned and i thought i would learn something new but these are just Christian's point of view you should watch the whole video of these scholar's instead what anti Muslim channels edits
Hello, what is the name of the paper 📑 he mentioned at this timestamp 5:42, it was hard to get the name of the author and the Arabic word he said.
Thank you.
He said Yasin Dutton and this is the only paper I could find of his archive.org/details/orality-literacy-and-the-seven-ahruf-hadith-yasin-dutton/page/24/mode/1up
Problem is that they don't have an actual Uthmanic Quran from the 7th century. Most Muslims today use Hafs Quran which was written in the late 8th century.
I believe more in the Koran which was held by the companions of the Prophet Muhammad SAW (Abu Bakar, Uthman bin Affan, Umar bin Khattab, Saad bin Abi Waqqas)
rather than a burnt Koran,
in the same year
Friend of the Prophet Muhammad SAW "Sa'ad bin Abi Waqas" has spread the Koran on the Chinese peninsula,
and there is no difference between the Chinese version of the Koran and today.
@@jurnalart121 But you do not have a Quran from the early 7th century. Also there is nothing about Sa'ad bin Abi Waqas from the 7th century. He is supposedly introduced in the mid 8th century by Ibn Ishaq but nothing of his work survives. Ibn Hisham supposedly edited out of the work of Ibn Ishaq work "things which it is disgraceful to discuss; matters which would distress certain people. Hisham was writing in the 9th century. It is also filled with is full of "contradictions, confusions, inconsistencies and anomalies. written from the point of view of the Abbasids, so that you will never know how the Umayyad caliphs remembered the beginings of Islam. Face it Islam never existed in the 7th century and is an 8th century invention. You should look up Dr. Stephen Shoemaker.
@@jurnalart121 Muhammad in Hadith praised Ubay bin Kaab and Ibn masoud as the best scholars of Quran, he advised Muslims to learn Quran from four people ubay, ibn masud, mawla ibn abo salama and muad bin jabal. Any of these companions is better than saad ibn abi waqqas.
Which version is the Chinese Koran? Hafs or what?
The Chinese version
@@LeodaTorino mushaf hafs
@@LeodaTorino In Indonesia, beauty competitions are often held to read the qira'at version of the Al-Qur'an
and still have the same translation
not to mention the competition for other mushaf versions
example
Arabic = wadhukhaa
Dialect version = wadhukhee
and do not change the letters or meaning.
Thank you
Just like biblical and historical evidence proves that jesus and his apostles were vegatarians biblical and historical evidence also proves that the trinity, atonement, original sin and hell are very late misinterpretations and are not supported by the early creed hence its not a part of Christianity I pray that Allah swt revives Christianity both inside and out preserves and protects it and makes its massage be witnessed by all people but at the right moment, place and time
The secred text of the Bible says ye shall know them by their fruits
So too that I say to my christian brothers and sisters be fruitful and multiply
Best regards from a Muslim ( line of ismail )
@theguyver4934 You need to provide evidence for those claims because theyre not true at all, at least 1 of the the disciples was a fisherman, which doesnt make a whole lot of sense if he was vegetarian. Who are you learning from?
Alhamdulillah interesting video.
Remember, koran manuscripts was in Muslim hands long before it was available to public and non Muslim scholars. Explain the corrections to me, why corrections was made in manuscripts,all in the same place to fit Cairo text of 1924 or 1934? See Daniel Brubaker 😮
He is trying desperately to prove that the SIN on the companion readings is trustworthy.
czcams.com/video/41VgAUsWyiE/video.htmlsi=hGJLiga8gnjtHc74
Strange how Muhammad supposedly tells people to learn the Quran from these men (non-canonized readings), yet Uthman’s version differs in major ways as you have shown. Do you believe the ahadith of the ahruf saba’at are historical anachronisms to try to save face? The instance where the two companions differ over a reading and the one discovers about the other ahruf is so interesting, because these people were supposedly around him all the time and to think that they never knew of 6 other versions is kinda crazy to believe.
That and the aya about abrogation was Muhammad's way to goof up and still save face. Just think about it. How could allah give a better aya than before if the earlier one was not defective in some way? Sadly, Muslims use abrogation to negate more peaceful aya from earlier in Muhammad's career with the more violent ones that came later.
But the ahruf are puzzling because no Muslim can show me ahruf #1, ahruf #2 . . . They have no idea, but simply sweep all variants under the magic carpet they call ahruf and qiraat.
@@1541965 So tell me. Why did Muslims not record all these modes? Why can none show me Ahruf #1, #2, #3 . . .
It seems Muslim did not preserve their Quran if they are lost. That is why you can't take a blank Mushaf and write down one Quran. You make up these myths to protect your ego.
If one page has so many variations God knows how many will there be 😮 in the whole book 😮
Can you read arabic?
The idea of the Uthmanic codex as the standard was not accepted in the distant past. *Just read 8th, 9th and 10th century and later MUSLIM scholars like, Sulaiman Ibn Abi Dawuud as-Sijistani, Ahmed as-Sayyaari, Ibn Nadeem al-Badgdadi. The latter (10th century) even says that in places like Iraq (Kufa , Basrah etc, esp. the former) it was the "mushaf" (codex) of Abdullah Ibn Mas'uud that was the standard text used at the time. The codex of Imam Ali ibn Abi Talib was being used by circles in Madina (particularly the Ahlul Bayt & their followers) and Mecca too.The Umayyads promoted an edited form of the so-called Uthmanic mushaf*.
There is plenty of Islamic literature on the history of the compilation and collection of the Quran. *The Sana' manuscripts were later compilation by an unknown compiler; later than the codices of Ali Ibn Abi Talib and Abdullah ibn Mas'uud, both of whom had direct access to the Prophet during his lifetime being either related, in the case of Ali being his first cousin and his closest companion, or a near and dear & trusted companion, in the case of Ibn Mas'uud. Both started compiling the Quran during the life of the Prophet. Our historians mention this, such as al-Baladhur and at-Tabari, plus others* .
Interestingly, both REFUSED outright to hand over their codices when Uthman formed his ad hoc 'Quran committee', with *Ibn Mas'uud even deriding Zaid ibn Thabit, the young and inexperienced upstart as 'Mr. Chairman', saying, "Zaid you were not even a sperm (nutfah) in your father's loins when I was writing down Quranic verses and directly confirming them from the Prophet himself* !"
*To top it all the Muslim world uses 5-7 slightly different variants of the so-called standardized Uthmanic codex, begging the question, if he standardized it then what are these differences we see now, 1400 after this so-called standardization* !
*And, btw, both Jalaaluddiin as-Suyuuti (in the Middle Ages) and ash-Shaukaani (18-19th century) - BOTH SUNNI - make reference to quotations from the codex of Abdullah ibn Mas'uud. They wouldn't had they not thought that it needs to be taken seriously* .
*Everyone keeps repeating like a parrot that Uthman standardized the manuscript and then burnt the others. Yes, he did burn the others but not because of his so-called standard version, but because others had verses that some around him may have been uncomfortable with. That is exactly what happened when Ali ibn Abi Talib presented his compilation shortly after Abu Bakr seized power, aided by Umar. His Quran compilation was annotated, he (Ali) being like a shadow of the Prophet knew exactly when and where and referring to who a verse was. And he was known among the companions as "al-Quran an-Naatiq" (The Speaking Quran). So what he had in his annotated compilation riled up some / many sahabah, as they appeared in a rather poor Quranic light.Following a big furore from the agitated sahabah he withdrew his compilation, and that stayed with his family, their descendents and their followers. That's how the 10th century bibliographer and bookseller, Ibn Nadeem al-Baghdadi was able to see the then still extant compilation by Imam Ali. Read Ibn Nadeem's al-Fihrist* !
There he is, the shia rafidi😂😂
This is all nonsense because Ali was born and grown in Al Basra his real name is Abu Turab .. Omar was from Syria
I want to see interpolations, subtractions and verses that uthman committee overlooked
Just shows its not from The True God.
According to the tradition itself, non - Uthmānic readings continued to be recited according to, though less popularly. Not all canonical readings agree with the rasm anyways.
Arabe 331 agrees with the Uthmānic rasm at basically any other place. These sort of deviations are very rare in early (Uthmānic) manuscripts. So, the presence of non Uthmānic readings in Uthmānic manuscripts either shows:
1. the scribe's memory was affected by a non Uthmānic variant. This is unlikely to be the case in Arabe 331.
2. the devation is a scribal error which coincidentally agreed with a pre Uthmānic reading. Unlikely for the deviation in Arabe 331
3. Despite the existence of a standard mushaf, some non Uthmānic readings still survived. This doesn't necessarily conflict with the idea of ijmā' on the Uthmānic mushaf. It simply shows that there were some places where early Muslims preferred non Uthmānic readings and didn't believe the Uthmānic mushaf abrogated all other readings which they considered valid. This is the best explanation for the manuscript evidence as well as the reports in the tradition.
You mentioned not all canonical readings agree with the rasm. Out of curiosity which ones are they Al Firas?
@@inquisitivemind007 Abū Amr doesn't follow the rasm a few times, such as the following readings:
Q19:19 li *yahaba* laki ghulāman zakiyyan
Q20:63 inna *hādhayni* la sāhirāni
Q63:11: fa assaddaqa wa *akūna*
Technically, Abū Amr & Ya'qūb's reading sayaqūlūna allāh at Q23:87-89 doesn't agree with the Uthmānic rasm too, but the two alifs later became part of the Basran mushaf as regional variants anyways.
@@alfiras8604 thank you
@@1541965 Al Firas is a respected Muslim Quranic manuscript expert who is followed by people like Marijn van Putten. Have a look at his twitter account twitter.com/AlFiras27?s=09
@@ancienthamatendiscipline3533 what do you mean no such word as islam in the Quran, quick search shows Sarah al-hujurat verse 17
Yes, it already happened in the land of the new Jerusalem. Some call it "Rum", but that is part of IudaoRum. The first part, Iuda became Ita-ly.
The tribulation was during the ieudish antiChrist kingdom. It brought hell on earth.
Immanuel Christ Iesous already came back. He stomped on the ieudomites until His garments were saturated with their blood.
He has many names and titles, including the mohammed. His full name is written on His forehead, and is only known to Him.
I suppose anybody can write something and stove it away for your analysis. Uthman should have consulted
him and you before doing what he did.
All readings essentially have complementary same emphatic meanings. This adds to the miraculous and beautiful nature of the Quran.
There are no miracles
For real? You are a joke
God is not able to persevere his book
Not to mention where is the stoning verse
They deleted my comment hahahahaha
Then why is a contradiction in Al Bazzi version ? About Lots wife what happend?
The Quranic corpus predates Muhammads time.
Maybe allah was not sure what to abrogate? 😂
Y'all trying so hard. This is pathetic sophistry. 😂
Very intelligent comment
Personally, I don't see the interest in the Quranic preservation issue. I find it totally irrelevant both to apologetics and counterapologetics.
@@nonomnismoriar9051 It is because the Quran claims that no one can change allah's words. It also claims that allah will protect his word himself. For variants to exist prove that the Quran can't be trusted what it says about itself. That is why so many Muslims had their faith shaken when Yasir Qadhi admitted that there are holes in the narrative that can't be addressed and that no one can take a blank Mushaf and write down the pure, pristine Quran. It doesn't exist. It never did.
The Quran makes claims that are easy to disprove leading the critical mind to realize the Quran is nothing but a myth or a lie.
For instance, the Quran tells us about Dhul Qarnayn's wall, but no one can find it or the hordes of Yuge and Majuge it allegedly hold back from humanity.
Also, the Quran tells us about little birds defeating the people of the elephant by dropping hardened clay balls with each warriors name engraved on them. We should be able to find the bodies of these warriors with little holes in their skulls or the little balls buried with them somewhere around Mecca. However, to date, nothing like that has been found. If those two items were found, it would prove the Quran miraculous and true. Not finding them creates great doubt that they are only myths told around campfire that Muhammad wrote into his Quran.
Why does the truth scare you so much?
@@1541965 Allah said he gave a book to Muhammad. What book?