Why Babylon Flopped at the Oscars
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- čas přidán 17. 07. 2023
- Babylon appeared to be one of the top Oscar contenders of 2022, but then everything went wrong. What happened? In this latest video in my series Oscar Fiasco, I explore why the Damien Chazelle epic starring Margot Robbie and Brad Pitt crashed and burned at the Academy Awards. #academyawards #oscars #babylon #margotrobbie #bradpitt #damienchazelle #oscarfiasco #theawardscontender
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This is why it's very hard to take a jab at Robbie as an actress. She's done it all.
She takes her career very seriously, and produces films too.
I love that she doesn't shy away from playinh horrible characters, weird ones, and ones who don't have as much screentime as the lead.
You can't say Robbie hasn't paid her dues.
Still a pretty average actress.
That's why I never blame actors for a movie's reception.
Let's not forget that Babylon not only released during Christmas weekend, the North American winter storm had an effect on the box office turnout that weekend as well. No one wanted to go out of their way to see a polarizing 3-hour film when it was 10 degrees farenheit outside.
It really was a shame; Babylon was my third favorite film of that year. The Babylon hive is STRONG!!
It was released later here in Europe , mid January, with massive publicity, but still bombed!! 🤷🏻♀️
Yes, good point!!
I agree, the Winter storm was so bad (yet I'm surprised we didn't lose power at my grandma's house because we were staying there for Christmas Eve).
Yup, a few cities were crippled by the storm and a bunch of other places were hurt and hit its literal opening night on the 23rd…tough luck for a solid flick.
I haven't heard of it.
Babylon not winning Production Design, and Score is up there in the biggest snubs in the past ten years. Western Front was fine to me. Production Design was literally just mud everywhere and the score was boring.
Babylon score sounded like unused tracks from LaLaLand! So glad it didn’t win anything
@@dext037 I strongly disagree! I will say it has similar cues, with it being the same composer I get, but the score is so bombastic compared to LaLa Land.
Babylon has superior music. All Quiet on the Western Front has the superior score for a film. For those reasons, I agree with the BAFTA and Oscar wins for All Quiet on the Western Front.
Should’ve gone to Babylon!
@@TheAwardsContender It just makes no sense to me. I know the movie was polarizing, but you cannot deny it in those categories. No one came close. As I said, I found Western Front ..... Fine. I feel like I have seen everything they have done in that movie before. I love that it kept with the German and French, and the lead performance was outstanding, but the Production Design????? I can still see the sets of the party scene in my mind from Babylon.
God... I have to say Babylon was my fav movie of last year, so there goes my objetivity, but I would say the main reason why it failed at Oscars was because it is not actually a love letter to the industry, but rather a list of the terrible things that have made Hollywood what it is.
I think that the final hit of losing the best score oscar was just unfair. Margot totally deserved the nod but that cathegory was stacked. Also, as a fellow mexican, I love seeing someone from my country leading a big production!!
Hopefully Chazelle keeps doing amazing movies.
Yes, agreed!
How? It's a tonal mess.
@@Paulxl Thats Hollywood, thats what this film exposed
@@leokimvideo The projectile vomiting and the rattlesnake scenes sure made sense tone wise. And the scene with Tobey Maguire wasn't a waste of time. Sure.
@@Paulxl --Yeah, I thought the rattlesnake scene and projectile vomiting were hilarious. I don't know what inspired the Toby Maguire scene.
There were just already too many films in the last decade about filmmaking, with the industry people paying tribute to themselves - Hugo, The Artist, La La Land, Once Upon a Time in Hollywood, The Fabelmans, and then Babylon, and I am sure I have left out others. I don't think Babylon was bad: I checked that I gave 7 out of 10 in IMDb but until I watched this I could not remember what it was about and even tended to confuse it with Amsterdam. I guess it did not get many nominations because it was just unremarkable.
I think the main problem of Babylon is the fact that it really feels like La La Land 2.0. Let's play clear and fair: La La Land is a post modern ode to Old Hollywood, full of sadness and nostalgia for those times. There are a lot of references to musical films (not only americans, the umbrealls of Cherbourg is heavily referenced), especially Singing in the rain, which happens to be the main inspiration for this film too. I kinda liked Babylon, as a classic cinema lover and an old hollywood lover, I had fun with the film, tho it started to lose me when sound arrived and lost me in the last hour, but it was impossible to not see that Chazelle was referecing to almost the same movies he referenced in La La land. I felt like Chazelle was screaming "Hey, I made a film about old Hollywood and you guys didn't give me the Oscar!! Is it more clear for you like this?". The score felt like La La Land, the story felt like La La Land, the ending felt like La La Land - it's basically the same. Personally, I think it was mistep for Chazelle and while I had fun with that as I am ol film buff, I think it wasn't amazing and the writing was a little bit stiff and atrocious at time, sometimes even too much plain and simple, quite didactic. And I never thought that any actor could get a nomination. Robbie is great, but she was not worthy of a nod and she is the film. Every other actor doesn't do anything but standing and staring.
Interesting, thanks for sharing!
Except they quite literally did give him the oscar for la la land. Just not best picture, but best director. Which he did not deserve.
@@jamespader But he lost Picture. And he wanted to win picture. To me directing was well deserved. La La Land is amazing.
Another difference is that La La Land was a more upbeat, general-audience-friendly movie while Babylon was more like "Jeffrey Epstein, the Early Years"
The whole "sadness and nostalgia" vibe gets out of the window with the pucking scene and the snake scene. That was a really bad couple of choices. Those were goofy af and it didn't match the rest of the movie. And the whole "toby mcguire as a disgusting looking mafia boss" part was completely pretty pointless. The party at the beginning was pointlessly long too.
Am I the only one who enjoyed this movie? 😂 I loved her character, the tragic star archetype but I can see why people thought it came off as Hollywood patting itself on the back- but I think the story was meant to show how chaotic the industry is, but at the end of the day the art is all that stands despite the struggles the souls involved making it faced
Yes, I loved it too!
Justin Hurwitz Not Winning Best Original Score For Babylon Is My Villain Origin Story
It’s interesting to see how Babylon had all the makings of being a major Academy Awards contender, yet ends up not only being a box office failure and being polarizing with critics, but didn’t get a slew of nominations despite the film looking like it would be nominated for a lot just from the trailers. Thanks for the video Brian, I hope you’re doing well, keep up the great work. Take care!
Hello Cold Mountain
Thank you!
That's what I thought as well, like it had all of the trappings of being a oscar bait trappings like the Amsterdam or the son but like those ones was completely forgotten by everyone critics included
When Babylon came out I immediately thought it was Oscar bait. The release date, the movie’s subject matter and the fact that I think Margot Robbie is itchy to get an actual Oscar and not just be nominated because every other year she’s either doing a franchise big budget movie (suicide squad, Barbie) or a movie that will be an award darling (I,tonya, bombshell) and I think Margot was hedging her bets that she would get a nom for Babylon or Amsterdam.
I had low expectations (have yet to see the movie) but in all honesty I really wanted Eeaao to sweep the season and that came true
Thanks for watching!!
What a great choice of topic for a video!! And how unfortunate that I have to agree with you for Amsterdam!! I went along to see both of them at the cinema to give them both their due, totally ignoring the poor reviews … the critics have certainly gotten it very wrong before after all!! Yep, Amsterdam was unbearable, despite Christian Bale’s noble effort!! And Babylon I desperately wanted to love, it’s the sort of thing that is right up my alley, and as much as I appreciate the intention , I quite quickly felt like it was hitting me repeatedly over the head with overkill!! Now clearly I GET that that was part of the point, and as much as I appreciate that, I certainly didn’t enjoy it unfortunately!!
Thanks, Bev!!
I agree, it was so boring and long and extremely on the nose.
I could forgive the Academy for not giving Babylon all the nominations it deserved, but I'll never, ever, ever, ever, ever forgive them for not giving it original score. Everyone in that branch should be expelled.
Babylon has superior music. All Quiet on the Western Front has the superior score for a film. For those reasons, I agree with the BAFTA and Oscar wins for All Quiet on the Western Front.
@@jonathanvelazquezph.d.2719 you might be deaf.
@@Clouden3 And apparently BAFTA and Oscar voters too
@jonathanvelazquezph.d.2719 yes, them too.
The score is incredible!!
I loved this film. Just saw this movie last night! One of the best films of the decade ❤ it will be looked favorably someday, give it 5 to 10 years. An underrated masterpiece. Pitt and Robbie deserved Oscar nominations.
Agreed!! Will be appreciated more down the road!
@@TheAwardsContender film 100% should've won for Score and Production Design. But Hollywood doesn't like gratuitous depictions of their industry. So they went with the uninspired All Quiet. That film was just woods and mud and trenches. 0 clue how it won Production Design.
La La Land won “kind of” Best Picture! 😂 I love it.
LOL
Maybe people are tired of long, overblown movies with overblown casts about Hollywood.
Definitely do more failed Oscar bait films. This was a great film that deserved more love from the Academy! Jean Smart also deserved a nomination for Supporting Actress!
They’re fun to do, thanks!
I adored Babylon. In many ways, it was the film I always knew Chazelle wanted to make. It'll be hella interesting to see how reception is in the years and decades to come. Am personally advocating for it to go on to become more celebrated! Great video!!! ❤️
Thank you!!
It’s becoming a cult classic
You know it is possible that Babylon will be revisted as a great classic.
It is certain.
Thank you for saying that about David O Russell’s Amsterdam, it’s also the worst movie I’ve seen in 2022 and it’s bothering me till these days for why the hell that The Razzie avoiding this POS ! I just don’t get it !
But still I’m very appreciating for you doing this, man ! Always love you, Brian. 🙏🏻❤️
PS. I might not fully love on Babylon, but I’ll always giving a chance to a film that a filmmaker taking a full swing with bigger risk than to spent a time with a movie full of thousand cliche.
Aww thanks so much!
Babylon was not the trainwreck critics tried (way too hard) to make it out to be. I think tweaks here and there and sequences to match the three sequences that front load the film (the first party, the silent film set, and the struggling sound set) would've sent this film on another path possibly.
Well said!
C'mon - it's sucked
I liked "Babylon." It was a strange feeling because I connected with the characters and their stories, but the whole time I wondered when the movie was gonna end. I guess having a new character introduced every 30 minutes is what kept the movie interesting. It felt like Damien crammed a whole miniseries in 3 hours. The ending was weird and forced though because that whole sequence felt very engineered to give you a positive feeling or rush at the very end. The Score, however, is iconic and if the marketing people had been smart, they really could made it go viral.
"Amsterdam" really was the most pointless movie of 2022 and they easily could have saved a lot of money in production design had they picked a more modern time frame to stage the story and it really annoyed me how they were pretending to act the whole time.
Yup, thank you for sharing!
I loved Babylon I went to the theater and watched it 5 times….. it’s the best film of the decade so far
I really enjoyed Babylon - the one takes of chaotic film sets - insanity on display - tobey Maguire was a hot mess, but in a good way and the ending had me blown away.
Maybe my expectations were so low - but I loved Babylon
I can see this film gaining an audience years from now and becoming a cult film
👍👍👍
The frenetic first 20 minutes had me hooked…before the the title card credit..that scene with Margo was hitting her mark was long, but made its point.. while watching, it kept reminding me of another film, Singing in the Rain, but I couldn’t place it..the way it went full circle with Rain at the end was genius.. I loved it.. some scenes were gratuitous, shots unnecessarily long, but I love it..
It’s messy but great!
It’s Singin’
@@randywhite3947 Calm down OCD grammar Nazi..🙄
Well this 20 min made me nauseous
@@0912sooli It was shocking, but can be unsettling for the timid.. I've seen and experienced worst..😂.. The elephant shot was creative..
She redeemed herself with barbie. Barbie has earned more than 1 billion dollars
Babylon is a wonderfully chaotic film that has great performances, a perfect soundtrack, smart cinematography, classic but quite remarkable production design, and great direction.
It's a pity that several unjustified criticisms (Not all), the failing script in that last hour and that HORRIBLE promotion of the film affected it at the Oscars
could have easily gotten 7-9 nominations if not for this
I know!! So crazy!
Babylon is an extraordinary movie! I think the marketing campaign was a disaster, the trailer was confused, it was difficult to understand what the movie was about: I totally agree, the Oscar for best original soundtrack should be for Justin Hurwitz, easily the film deserved nominations for Best Picture, Best Director, Best Actress, Best Supporting Actor, Best Cinematography, in addition to those obtained. Another important factor was the Hollywood portrait and how the produces were depicted.
Number 6- Other movies were strong buzz in Last season
-2 Huge Box offices players Avatar and Top gun
- EEAAO and Banshees hugely loved by critics and everyone
- TAR with Cate Blanchett
-Oscar bait The Fablemans
-Remake of 2 time oscar winner war movie All Quiet on the Western Front
-Music Biopic Elvis movie
-Triangle of Sadness and Women Talking are got better reviews and buzz that Babylon
if Movie was came out in 2020/21 , im sure Babylon would be fine in awards season and including in Best picture
There's a few things I'll say regarding Babylon's chances:
1) Whoever predicted this to be the equivalent of Rob Marshall's Nine where it would get multiple nominations from GG & CCA, but only get a few Oscar nods but not win anything, you nailed it!
2) I had feared All Quiet on the Western Front would win the Original Score category ever since it got nominated for BAFTA & as soon as it did win the BAFTA for Score, I knew that was game over for Babylon, especially when CCA gave their win in the category to Tár.
3) I'm really curious in knowing how the hell All Quiet managed to win Production Design, when it didn't even win ADG or BAFTA. Because I heard at the time some of the Oscar predictors, who spoke with the voters said they were boycotting Babylon to win anything & went out of their way to pick something else like All Quiet. Was that the only reason it managed to win? I'm still baffled by that surprise win.
4) Maybe this IS a coincidence, but I think the next time we feel divided on what's winning Production Design, maybe we should look at which films are in the other technical categories like Cinematography, Sound, and/or VFX? Because I recall that Mank managed to upset in the Cinematography lineup when it was already a frontrunner in PD. And it's really odd that since Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon we've had a total of 10 films to win BOTH PD & Cinematography at the Oscars.
AQOTWF had great production design. PD doesn't mean just sets (which were amazing in AQOTWF) but it means all artistic vision of the film. The production designer design the whales in Avatar, the production designer design the tanks and arms in AQOTWF, and they were amazingly accurate. I think I would have voted for Babylon too, but AQOTW would have been a close second place and it is a deserved winner. But score was AQ for me too, I listen to it a lot and, generally, it fits the film so well.
Thanks for your insight!
Babylon suffered from what I call the "Great Gatsby" problem, and it's this.
If you're making a film about a time period known by the modern audience mostly for extravangance and fun, but you want to tell a nuanced story, you have four choices:
1. Focus solely on the extravangance, the fun, and the partying, and veer closely towards hagiography and perhaps satire.
2. Focus solely on the pitfalls, the poor, the despondent, with the extravagance and fun as a forlorn hope.
3. Focus solely on a very narrow plot where the importance is on the narrative and not the characters.
4. If you must do a character study, focus on a SINGLE character and their relationships with everyone else. A hub and spoke, if you will.
Babylon, instead, did a character study that tried to split the baby in terms of the mistery and the extravagance, and in turn, it was a tonal mess (although the cinematography was great).
The reason why I mention The Great Gatsby is that, when rendered into film form, most directors lose sight of the reality that F. Scott wrote the book not a wistful longing for a time passed (it was published in 1925, in the midst of the Roaring 20s), but instead a thinly-veiled portrait of his life, and most importantly, the simmering resentment he felt towards a people and society at large that he both loathed at a distance but intensely desired to be a part of up close. In other words, cognitive dissonance in novel form.
Because of this duality, if you solely focus (or spend too much time on) the beautiful people and the lavish parties, you miss the resentment. Conversely, if you focus on the miserable internal dialogues and the simmering dismissiveness between people like Gatsby and Tom, you miss the intense desire of Fitzgerald to be of the rich, moneyed class like his neighbors, like his former classmates at Princeton, and like his ancestors before his father squandered their fortune. To put in real terms, the 1974 film veered too closely towards misery, and the 2013 film veered too closely towards hagiography, which is why neither (outside of cinematography, a handful of performances, and the big names attached) is as fondly remembered as other period pieces.
Unfortunately for Babylon, it managed to break all four of those things. It couldn't determine whether it wanted to go all in on either side of the tonal isle, the plot itself wasn't narrow or captivating enough to ignore the tonal mess (this is where I think Chazelle erred in changing from a truly historic piece that looked at the life and times Clara Bow), and it spent too much (and too LITTLE) time on 4 different main characters, when at MAX, it should've been one or two.
Lastly, there's the main character issue. I truly felt that the movie was hindered by placing too much focus on Margot's character. Why? Because for a character with all of her obvious faults, you have to humanize them early enough to where we either look past the faults, or when they get their comeuppance because of the faults, we feel bad. They did neither. Narratively, she got everything she wanted without much difficulty or sacrifice, solely because of her beauty and her chance meeting with Manny (if she didn't look like Margot Robbie, in-universe Manny isn't letting her into the party, and we have no movie). So, not only does she luck her way into everything, she becomes and remains an absolute boor as though what she gained was through talent and intelligence, not luck based around her beauty. It's difficult to make the audience empathize with that, especially in the backdrop of 1920s America where legitimately talented and beautiful non-white people are still exoticized, fetishized, and marginalized in various ways (which the movie touched on just enough to be irksome). So, by making a character unintentionally reviled, you now cause a discordant feeling, as the audience comes to want to see them fail, while the creator(s) have written the rest of the movie with the expectation that we want to see them continue to succeed. That discordant feeling is okay if your movie is a pure comedy, but since this film becomes rather more tonally serious as it goes on, it doesn't work.
Compare that above paragraph with a time-period movie I think pulled it off incredibly well (and with a character that, all-in-all, isn't particularly likeable in the aggregate): Scarface. Why does it work? Because we see and understand the struggle that Tony Montana goes through. He's a not particularly attractive Mariel boatlift cast-off throwin in a city he doesn't know, and is willing to do the absolute worst to make something of himself, up to and including murder. He kills, but he almost gets killed, and loses friends in the process. It's a dirty business, but everyone involved has no illusions about what they're doing, and eventually, Tony makes it big. However, his arrogance and intransigence gets the best of him, and he begins a decline. Ironically enough, the two morally good elements of his character (his love of kids and his sister) directly lead to his death (his refusal to kill the diplomat because his child was with him, and killing Manny because he got married to his sister). In the end, everything catches up to him, and he gets killed by his competitor.
However, think about the feeling that most people had by the end of Scarface. Even though Tony was a murderous, drug-addicted psychopath, most of us wanted him to WIN. Most of us wanted him to survive the assault, because even though most of us would never go to the lengths he did in order to be successful, we at least understood that he WORKED FOR IT, that he was willing to sacrifice for what he had, and put himself at risk to do. Contrast that with Nellie, where she neither worked for anything, nor seemed appreciative nor desirous to develop any self-awareness for her exceedingly good fortune at becoming a star through a serious of improbable events (which only happened because, again, she looked like Margot Robbie and Manny, amongst most later men she met, wanted to fuck her).
The narrative issue is thus this: what exactly are we rooting for or supporting when most of the main characters we follow are either already successful (Jack), become successful rather quickly in narrative time (Nellie and Sidney), or are rather passive participants in the story and we don't really see HOW or WHY they become as successful as they do (Manny)? On top of that, Chazelle limited himself by the time period. We the audience knew that the arival of "talkies" would doom the silent film stars, so either you have a narrative where everyone continues to be successful in spite of technological advancement (which would clash with the tonal shift in the 2nd half of the movie), or you have the two characters you've followed (and have invested the most time and emotional consideration in) dead and/or destitute (Nellie and Jack). Manny's is a relatively passive actor in his own story, and Sidney's isn't fleshed out enough for us to care, so leaving the audience with only those two left simply doesn't work narratively.
I really liked Babylon - yes, it's chaotic, wild, all over the place and just a big assault on the senses but I was entertained and thrilled for the whole thing. I have not seen Amsterdam and have heard, like the vid here, nothing but bad things about it - I'm almost tempted to watch it, or try to, just to see if it's as bad as you say. David O Russell is very hit or miss with me, so I suspect I wouldn't make it to the end.
Thanks for watching!
The movie's downfall was undoubtedly its third act, which proved to be its ultimate undoing. Furthermore, its excessive length could have been mitigated with a more palatable PG-13 rating to appeal to a wider audience.
'Babylon' felt like a prolonged, orgy and extravagant amalgamation of Baz Luhrmann's 'Moulin Rouge' and 'The Great Gatsby.'
During my theater experience (which saw mediocre attendance), it was evident that a significant number of viewers had already left by the end of the movie, particularly during Act 3.
This film stands as a prime example of a director exercising excessive control, and it certainly could have benefited from some much-needed executive oversight.
Had 'Babylon' focused solely on the Hollywood Silent Film era and its transition to Talkies, it could have been a far more profound and engaging cinematic experience.
Even Brad Pitt's character had the potential to showcase an actor who found newfound success in television, akin to Lucy Ricardo from 'I Love Lucy.'
Additionally, exploring the juxtaposition of Talkies and Silent Films would have provided a captivating insight into both Hollywood's past and its intersection with modern-day AI-driven cinema and current political landscape with AI in the film industry.
Thanks for sharing!
Babylon's biggest problem? Misdirection.
Chazelle's flawed vision of presenting iconic 20's Hollywood through the disco lens of Studio 54. was both distracting and misguided. Instead of trusting the audience to make the connection, he purposely eschewed sleek flapper bobs and Kohl lined eyes for Halston, Mackie and Biba Glam of the 70's.
The first 2 hours was dazzling cinema and very promising. The party scene with it's homage to 1926's "The Temptress"(just like 2017's "Phantom Thread " ) was mesmerizing. That epic battle scene set piece is as good as DeMille, D. W. Griffith or David Lean - only funnier.
However, juvenile frat boy hijinks ensues - projectile vomiting and Elephant poop shots in the face belied young Chazelle's reputation as a director more evolved and self assured than his peers. Brad Pitt's stereotypically melodramatic demise was unnecessarily cruel. The surreal dissent into the Tobey Maguire nightmare was gimmicky at best but that stunningly heavy handed appropriation of "Singin' in the Rain" seemed mawkish and unearned.
Interesting, thanks for your insight!
🎯
I had never heard of Babylon until the Oscar nomination announcements. It had 0 advertising where I live and I don’t even remember the film playing at my local theater
Interesting!
The only reason I didn’t see _Babylon_ - and I badly wanted to - was the snake sequence. I wasn’t prepared to cower in the cinema because of my phobia. But by all accounts this is a film that needed to be seen on a giant screen.
Whenever I think of Babylon I think of what Grace from beyond the trailer said about once upon a time in Hollywood calling it “a really well made, really well acted BAD movie” that definitely applies to Babylon I personally was split for the film I feel the technicality of it in terms of the editing, production design, the score (AMAZING), and acting but overall I feel the film fell flat bc for 1) it didn’t really say anything outright new to the silent era turned to sound era of Hollywood and I say this as a big golden age of Hollywood stan through and through I still to this day believe if Damien wanted to say something more taboo breaking and interesting about this real life era it should’ve made the only POC characters (manny, Sidney, lady Fi) the main attraction and actually use the opportunity to speak further about the mistreatment of POC performers in that era something that is extremely taboo outside of the Dorothy dandridge biopic with halle berry there’s not a lot of movies that go back in time and express the stories of how racism in Hollywood started that is still effective to this very date. 2) I felt the film was too derivate from films that did a much better job at what Babylon tried to do AKA Boogie Nights and Singing in the Rain from the structure and plotlines and even the way each characters are depicted WAY TOO DERIVATIVE I remember watching Babylon in the theaters and thinking “ohh wow this a singing in the rain remake but without the musical numbers and much more gritter and darker” and then towards the end it hit me like “I know Damien’s behind didn’t rip off boogie nights?” This actually been a big critique I’ve had towards Damien since whiplash with his other recent releases (la la land, first man)
In terms of failure at the Oscar’s I feel it has to do with the film not being marketed well from the release date constantly being delayed and pushed back to having it being widely released in the USA and Canada first and then internationally a whole month later as suppose to doing a limited release first and then wide to misplacing the film trailers and advertisements as being solely about old school Hollywood parties, not only did the marketing effect how audiences and critics seen it but also Oscar voters, overall the marketing confusing everyone on what the film was truly about, there’s also due to both the polarizing critical reception and the box office bombing usually Oscar nominated/winning movies that aren’t the best received have at least one failure either it’s critically polarizing but a massive box office hit (Bohemian rhapsody, joker, vice, ford V foreari) or it’s a box office bomb but is widely acclaimed by critics (tar, the fabalman, almost all of 2022 best picture nominees that weren’t released to streaming services exclusively) having both negative/mixed reviews by critics and bombing at the box office isn’t gonna help. I feel for Damien this should be more of a lesson for him not to go full out on the film and actually have a real artistic direction where you know what you are doing also stop focusing on bringing spectacle first and then character arcs later I’m someone who rejects that “style over substance” narrative bc style proves it can have substance on its own but I do think it’s important to make sure that’s the case that’s proven in your art that the spectacles and styles are full of substances and hopefully you let it speak for itself.
So interesting, thanks for your insight!
Meant to add - because you reference Whiplash, I have a personal best film list going since 2000 and I average about 2 or 3 best films for me, of each year and Whiplash was one of the best as well, for it's year. I remember that - a unique thing really, a musically themed dramatic movie fashioned like a very intense thriller - I thought that was insane and blew my mind when it came out.
For me the biggest reason why I couldn't really immerse myself into this movie was due to Margot Robbie's ridiculous costume and hair choice, which was mostly due to demands by Damien Chazelle according to the costume designer. As a rabid costume drama fan, it irks me when the director insist on "Sexifying/modernizing" only the female characters look- Everyone else in this film is dressed perfectly, both historically and characteristically. It is just Margot Robbie who stands out so much like a sore thumb, in an outfit that makes complete 0 sense for the time background, especially considering it was supposed to be an ode to old Hollywood. I understand his intent, but it did not work at all. If every character was dress in modernized/sexier clothing as a whole, the universe would make more sense. Sadly this happens a lot with costume dramas directed by male directors.
I agree. Tho I would have love Babylon to win Costume design, I know it was looking due to Nellie's horrendous costumes, which felt a littl bit off even in the storytelling process. I am not against the idea of modernizing costumes, it's not a documentary and costume design is story telling, not fashion history, but I couldn' understand why everyone looked so "roaring '20" while Nelli looked so "2020 alpha girl college".
Thanks for sharing!
Nah margot looked great didn’t look odd at all and she was drug addict im the flim almost like a prostitute so she was dressed correctly
The release date doesn’t always matter much….Babylon lost to a weird multiverse movie that opened in late March
True!
i just watched it recently on Prime, based on your recommendations. It takes a lot to get me to sit through a 3 hour movie, but I found it entertaining all the way through. The music really stood out to me. Also how about an Oscar for Jean Smart? I love seeing her pop up in different projects, and she has had such an amazing long career and always good performances.
I believe the model of campaign is about to change... EEAAO or Andrea Riseborough shown that audiences or voting members (depending of the quality of the film) are able to hold up a film's momentum till awards season with social media in general... You know, these days It's not like "oh remember that movie we watch in may? Ummm... No"
It's fantastic; think not only about EEAAO but Get Out in 2017. It was released in early first half that year and kept the noise till 2018... It's very telling the late releases aren't working that good anymore.
Interesting point!
I watched Empire of Light the other evening - giving it a second chance after boredom switched me off it first time round - it was okay - the standouts as we all know being Coleman and of course Deakins's exquisite photography but I too loved Babylon and it should've easily taken the Oscar for it's score which enhances the entire film. Shame
Babylon held a mirror up to Hollywood. I don't think they liked that. Personally, I enjoyed it.
I was really bummed out more with its snubs than its bad box office. I hoped that despite its bombing it would get awards love but nada. I'm with you - it should've deserved Production Design & Score. ABC was literally using Hurwitz's score for the Oscars promo! But All Quiet's super late surge was undeniable.
In terms of cast, I honestly think Robbie and Pitt would've gotten in if the categories weren't crowded. Robbie was fantastic - all-time great from her - but Yeoh and Blanchett were locks, De Armas, Davis, Deadwyler, and Williams had better chances, and there was even the Riseborough surprise. Pitt had both a crowded category (Dano was even bumped by BTH) and his current scandals/allegations surrounding his family that are still fresh on people's minds.
Ironically the best chance was probably Calva for Lead Actor. There was that fifth spot that people kept swapping around between him, Eddie Redmayne, Adam Sandler, Jeremy Pope and Paul Mescal - a lot I saw were predicting Calva getting in. But Mescal's goodwill and Aftersun's buzz helped him get that well-deserved coveted last spot.
Yes, good point!
There was absolutely no promo for Babylon, or I’m just living under a rock and never noticed any😅 Margot is the starlet of our generation, and the movie itself had a lot of potential.
Massive Damien Chazelle fan here who has Whiplash and La La Land in his top 10 films of all time. I really enjoyed Babylon and was disappointed it didn't get more awards love, (losing Original Score angered me plenty, still listening to it!) although given how it depicts the industry, perhaps not so surprising. I never took the final montage as some "aren't movies great" thing, but rather it's trying to bamboozle the viewer into thinking all the horrific things depicted within the film were worth it in the end, just like how the elephant is used to cover up the overdosed girl at the party: pompous spectacle used to distract from the hidden horrors that fuel it.
Thanks for sharing!
But it still same message aren’t movies great everything great has dark past and gets better it’s was showing how much movies improved and how much it’s great
I thought there was loads to love about Babylon, it's just that ultimately it felt unfocused, unsure of its own point and, mostly because of that, like it didn't have a strong ending. The lack of focus also feels like the reason it rambled on so long before getting us to that unsatisfactory ending, like it didn't really know what to do except follow the characters for years.
Call your movie about Hollywood 'Babylon' and it feels, especially with the echo of Kenneth Anger's book, like you're going to be calling the place out for its grotesque decadence. That's also what it looked like doing at the start, complete with the Fatty Arbuckle-like scene of a woman's death and the subsequent cover-up.
But it wasn't really about any of that. The actors implicated in the decadence were actually depicted as great artists, brought low, sort of, by the arrival of sound, but even that was far less clear than in the Singing in the Rain source material.
The only real point I could see was to sort of say this was a world of such highs that when the inevitable fall from stardom happens, it's going to be brutal and drive you to madness or to kill yourself or to flee, but then the final scene seems to reply to that by saying, 'Yeah, but that's the only way we get all the thrillingly great art of Hollywood, so it's probably all worth it.' We see Manny in the cinema watching the Singing in the Rain version of the story he's lived through and he's desperately moved and starts crying and then the film magically dissolves into a montage of great moments from cinema in general.
It's _very_ like the end of Cinema Paradiso, by the way, a depiction of a sad life redeemed by cinema. But in both movies, the point seems trite to me: we're supposed to be moved by the idea that great art is moving, but with nothing really substantial to actually tug at our heartstrings.
As it happened, the film had already achieved roughly this aim much earlier in the amazing sequence on Manny crossing hell and high water to get a camera and arriving on set just in time to catch the perfect sunset for the perfect scene. That was a concrete and affecting payoff that beautifully conveyed the idea that a great artistic outcome totally transcends and validates every bit of torture and desperation that went into its making. After that, there was no great need to say it again less powerfully, much less to take so long about doing so.
Thanks so much for another wonderful video. Enjoyed it so much.
Yay, thank you!
I remember the marketing for this movie being very confusing (Europe). I couldn't work out what genre it was or when it was set - the focus was on it being an 'event.'
It was out of cinemas before I even knew it had been released!
Babylon isn’t based on ip like you said, but I don’t if it’s original. It’s inspired by the famous book, Hollywood Babylon. A movie version of that has been in talks forever. That’s partially why this was expected film from the start. So I would not say the film was an original underdog.
Good point!
I was so looking forward to Babylon when it came out, and then it became the most disappointing movie on my 2022 watchlist. Like, I don't hate it (except, the ending sequence really made me squirm). But, it was too hard to love for me with all the mess in its plot, despite being great in almost every aspect.
Fair enough!
Thanks for your review, Brian. I will have to check out "Babylon" from my local library. Yes, I still use and value my DVD player. I agree with you about "Amsterdam." It was dreadful! I saw it with a friend, who was treating me for my belated BD. Anne really liked the movie, and could follow it much better than I. As always, keep up your excellent reporting. Your insight is spot-on!
Thank you!
I really liked babylon, I understand it's not for everyone and I didn't like it immediately after watching it but after contemplating it for a bit , it definitely was a great film imo...to bad it didn't even get best score (which I definitely deserved)
It should’ve won Score, come on now!
i love waking up to a new video from brian. it’s the thread holding together my mental health 💝
Oh wow, I’m so glad my videos bring you joy ❤️
I appreciate Margot trying different roles to avoid being typecast. The irony is that her current movie 'Barbie' where she plays a stereotypical Barbie has become a hit over the Oscar bait movies 'Amsterdam' and 'Babylon'. 😅 She is my favourite actress and she always gives it her all for her roles. I hope she makes better choices script wise to maintain the momentum from 'Barbie'.
This was a good video. Thank you.
I didn't see La La Land because as a theatre artist, I knew too many people who walked out. Babylon looked interesting but it looked very showboaty, as most films about classic Hollywood in the modern perspective tend to gravitate towards. It seems self-referential for Hollywood to make films about Hollywood, but I think unless the take is fresh, there really isn't much to go on, and I think the Academy is trying to move away from that. Was Babylon innovative? Not really. Was Babylon offering anything new? Meh. I haven't seen it, but I didn't really have an interest, and I am a classic movie fan, but this film just felt patronizing.
Babylon should’ve been nominated and maybe even have won Picture in my opinion. Idgaf what anybody says the film is brilliant and I love it. It’s not a Hollywood blowjob movie like some people said about La La Land (which I love as well lmao) but it’s more about a fuck you to Hollywood while celebrating the achievements many have made in Hollywood while also basically saying “yeah a lot of these people were pricks.” I loved it and it was done dirty… especially for Score.
LOVED this movie. After my first time seeing it, I couldn't get it out of my mind (was a minor obsession), and I bought it as soon as it was available on streaming. Was disappointed it didn't connect with audiences and critics-- however I feel this will be a sleeper that film students are going to "re-discover" in the future, and gain appreciation for the visuals, artistry and storytelling.
Brian, once again u have made a good analysis on Babylon fiasco. The main reason I feels it’s because of the change in audiences expeditions and their wants . Babylon is an interesting and good movie to watch but it’s not something that is new and it is not great . It’s just looks like another LaLaLand and nothing new.
Thanks for watching!
First off, Babylon’s budget wasn’t as huge but needed tons of word of mouth to make the money back.
Second, the movie’s flaw is competition. The movie was fighting against Puss In Boots 2 and Avatar 2. And those movies took Babylon’s lunch money.
And finally, people weren’t ready to go to theaters due to the affects of COVID.
Yes, good point!
I loved it! Questioned the costuming for Margot Robbie, but that’s it on my dislikes. You’re right that Justin Hurwitz should’ve won an Oscar or at least been nominated for Best Original Score; ‘Voodoo Mama’ is one of my favorite songs from last year. One of the best movies of 2022.
Barbie really looks terrible.
The Wizard of Oz and Citizen Kane are two films that were met with box office and critical indifference in their day only to be considered classics in later years. I believe BABYLON will rise in estimation in the years to come.
I just watched it; I thought it was excellent. However, I DO think regular people got out of the habit of sitting through a three-hour long movie in a theater.
Washington has the same screen presence of paperwall peeling off and falling to the ground
Babylon is a masterpiece.
This might be nitpicking but to me the costuming got kinda confusing, at least for Margot Robbie. Don’t get me wrong she looks gorgeous especially in that red dress, but I don’t get 1920s style from her. She looks a few decades set in the future. Idk maybe it does make sense for the plot but I see the rest of the costuming and she sticks out.
Interesting, I didn’t notice!
I love Babylon. Period. Deserves love.
❤️❤️❤️
Is it due that it was released at the end of december and oscar nominee campaign was already there whuch sets back the babylon for yhe oscar race
Babylon absolutely should have won score and production design is a coin toss for me between it and AQOTWF but i’d say it was done pretty fairly at the oscars. The film was okay at best and a way too long, boring at times mess at worst for me. It peaks about 30 minutes into the film and slowly goes down after that. Wasn’t a fan of Pitt in it either but Margot was undoubtedly good. I wouldn’t have had her in best actress over anyone else that Should’ve been there though. Over riseborough? Maybe but I wouldn’t have had her there either tbf. Definitely Chazelle’s weakest work
Thanks for watching!
Not Score because All Quiet is much better score
But agreed for Production Design
Thanks for the great content!👏🏽
Still will waiting on Saoirse Ronans elusive oscar though 😢
Ronan has a couple big award movies coming, so I’ll get to her soon!
Great job, Brian!
Thanks!
I think it was too long. I hate that directors think they have to make 3 hour movies to be considered for Oscars. But you have convinced me to actually watch this movie. Even without seeing it, I can say the 2 categories it lost to All Quiet On The Western Front was wrong- I thought that movie was terrible. Please people, watch the 1930 version, which did win Best Picture. I think Margo Robbie is one of those actresses that Hollywood loves, but beyond them, not so much from the general public. Barbie may do well on first weekend, but reviews aren't out yet, I'm wondering if when people know exactly what this movie is about, how many will cancel because it's not what they think the movie is going to be?
Interesting!!
I could tell that Babylon was going to be the kind of obnoxious that was going to sweep the Oscars so I skipped it. But the fact that the Oscars gave it crickets was even more surprising. Still kind of baffled really. It's downright conspiratorial.
I LOVED it! So complex and fun and wild.
Amsterdam sucked but Babylon is amazing and underrated
Yup!
I know this is a Babylon video, but damn, Amsterdam was so baffling! I couldn't believe how hard the movie tried to be quirky. Anyway, loved Babylon. I was rooting so hard for a Best Score Oscar.
Same!!
Not Score
Please Production Design
I loved Babylon and bought a copy for my library. Margot Robbie and Jean Smart were the draws for me.
Great expectation is the worst disappointment. I didn't know what to expect from Babylon, but I got three hours and three minutes of sheer disappointment. What a mess! What a train wreck! What a waste of talent! It's not even so bad it's good. It's a waste of time. This film reinforces the fact that Hollywood is nothing without good writers.
Question. Are you still regretting your Barbie prediction? Early critic reviews are calling it a masterpiece and its on track to having the second or first highest opening weekend of the year. Gosling is potentially going to win (duke it out with Deniro) and its already got costumes and song locked
Might make a follow up video after I’ve seen it!
I thought it failed at the box office and with critics due to its atrocious marketing. I saw so many ads for this movie that made it seem like a pretentious piece of excess yet not giving any clue what the movie was about. It also featured Brad Pitt up the wazoo though he's barely in the movie at all. Just based on that, it didn't give me any desire to go see the movie.
Babylon is an insufferable movie. It is like being yelled into the face for hours.
If he actually made a love letter to Hollywood, it would have had a chance. But this movie had a guy that eats rats for money, not many of the characters were likable, and the overall structure of the movie does not follow any other Hollywood movie. I almost think the director made this purely for his own artistic expression and not for any other reason. I was blown away by the movie and love that it is a mess of a movie. I agree that it may take 5-10 years for it to be acknowledged for what it is. I think everyone that was involved in making this movie knew it was something special, and I think they also knew it was not your typical cookie cutter nostalgia film.
I was put off by the 3 hour runtime from going to see it in the cinema. 3 hours plus tepid reviews? No, I'll wait till it's on telly. I'm surprised how people aren't factoring that in on movie run times. Big budget movies can't wait to become sleeper hits on home release though.
I would say Birds of Prey is her biggest flop since it was meant to be star vehicle for her. However it suffered from the pandemic, bad name and that the movie was alienating to the fans of the 2016 Suicide Squad movie (although she was also producer and responsible). Not that that movie was great, but if you aliante prior fans you loose at box office.
I like Amsterdam myself even if that’s not common view. Maybe because I have red about history it was focused on and the era is nice, and the style of the director fits my tastes.
I, Tonya is probably Robbie’s biggest triumf with how she got the movie made. But she is so well casted in Barbie I hope it’s great.
Yes, can’t wait for Barbie!
Chazelle is the new Wes Anderson for me and I can safely say, looking at his repertoire to date, I will never watch any of his movies, gifting myself countless hours of quality time that might otherwise have been spent head scratching at Hollywood hyperbole.
I walked into Babylon rooting for it and hoping to love it. Instead, it ended up being one of my biggest disappointments of the year.
While there are certain aspects of the film that work, and Margot Robbie was fantastic in it, overall, it never really gels. The whole is less than the sum of its parts.
I actually hated the “Hello college” scene. It was a cheap attempt to recreate what was done hilariously in Singin’ in the Rain.
As far as GG and CC, those people are guilty of trying to guess what’ll be popular during the awards season, rather than being truly critical and nominating on merit.
Babylon didn’t deserve more nods than it got.
Great video. I was rooting for Babylon for score and was shocked it didn't win.
Thanks!
Not Score! Please for Production Design
watched it the other day, really liked it. Sad to see a bunch of retrospectives like this lol.
Babylon had a massive tonal issue, I couldn't get through the first ten minutes because it didn't know what it wanted to be and I wasn't going to sit through 2 1/2 hours of that. Also those tropes are too played out. Of course the director and writer weren't nominated because tone is their job and they fumbled.
Goodbye Christopher Robin was considered a down? I saw the movie in theaters and thought it was quite good. Maybe it didn't make much money, but it was a decent film.
I meant more in terms of box office. Still haven’t seen it!
Love the movie although it’s a bit hectic and the last hour was ehhhhh for me, but Calva had an AMAZING performance he was the draw for me. Him and Brad Pitt were just incredible
Babylon is one of the worst films I’ve seen in a long time.
Great video, Brian! First off, brace yourself for The Son. The sudden acceleration in the tone of dialogues feels perfunctory and the hamfisted ending makes you wonder why you watched the 2 hour movie to begin with. And yes, I agree with Amsterdam. How can you assemble an ensemble of good actors like that and come out with a very dull and unsatisfactory movie (which also applies to The Son really)? Say what you want about Babylon, but dull it was not. I thought the movie was very chaotic and choppy, with the highlights being the performances of Margot Robbie, Diego Calva, Jean Smart, and Brad Pitt. The production design and cinematography I thought was very good, but the film itself needed to be chopped by at least an hour as it just felt too overstuffed to be at that 3 hour mark. And the bad box office and reviews definitely killed its' above the line Oscar chances, as GoldDerby still had the movie listed as a top 10 Best Picture hopeful in late December. Very curious to see what your next choice of an Oscar fiasco will be.
Thanks for your interest!!
I was sooo sad with Amsterdam! Russell is one of my favorite directors and I'd been waiting for years for a new movie. How can a director with so much critical success do such a bad movie? I don't say he had to create brilliance but failing this much is so disappointing!
I didn't see Babylon but there's something I find odd about Robbie. I like her but I feel that she's EVERYWHERE all the time. And being such a distinctive face (not only beauty, but features) I feel it could be tiresome.
Thanks for sharing!
This film wasn’t as bad as everyone said. The problem was with the 3rd act. It was way too long and the ending lacked resolution.
That’s what made this movie more unique didn’t go with same old boring ending
People aren't as in love with celebrities as they used to be, so an ode to old Hollywood was always going to flop.
Oh that is a very good point.
Can’t say I’m surprised. Babylon assumes an audiences know various Hollywood history esoterica, but then goes for gross out shots and grotesques to alienate the limited number of people likely to enjoy it.
Then the montage near the end was a mawkish eye roller.
I think this was the most ambitious film Damian Chazelle did and I feel he bit off more then he could chew. And with Fablemans and Empire of Light being more traditional Oscar films the academy had to go the safe route and be more with Fablemans than any other films about Hollywood or film making
Yes, good point!