Production Hell - The Entire DCEU
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- čas přidán 25. 01. 2023
- Its not secret that the DCEU hasn't exactly been a roaring success, and the recent reshuffle that brought in James Gunn, and shunted out Henry Cavill and almost everyone else, got me thinking about how badly this whole franchise went wrong.
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The expression: “Slow and steady wins the race!” is a cautionary tale for a reason and the DCEU is a perfect example of what happens when you try and rush things to catch up to your rivals.
Yupp
The fsct is they could have done it
If they didn't butchered Green Lantern in 2011 they would have had their Iron Man with Ryan Reynolds
Then they would have Supermanwith man of steel
@@SubZero-hs9xc or just pay nolan and bale a bunch
It’s funny cause they rushed yet took fcking forever cause I remember Batman v Superman was in development for like 3 fcking years.
Imagine taking forever and still sucking ass
Yeah but waiting 10 years to get to crap isn’t cool either. 🤔🤨
A time when marvel used to be good. Their competitors actually crashed and burned trying to copy them. Man how irony truly works over time.
Both the DCEU & MCU are in complete disarray
@@LunaticFringeReviews not when the DCEU was started
@@LunaticFringeReviews the MCU is doing alright
@@jfoster8624 nice joke kiddo.
The MCU is doing TERRIBLE.
The quality of Phase 4 is fucking garbage.
And even money/subscribers wise, there is officially a downfall in the audience.
@@spider-man500 it's not doing terrible it's on phase 1-2 y'all forget the MCU wasn't rattling off hit after hit we've seen slow buildups before it's in a tough spot but it's not dying at all
This shows to me how much of a miracle that first decade of the MCU was. They weren't always the best films but that they were all competently put together, and worked as a shared universe is a feat that's probably not going to be repeated in our lifetimes. Heck, even the MCU itself seems to have finally run out of steam.
Even the couple movies that weren’t very good in the first decade were still very entertaining. I didn’t regret watching anything till captain marvel
@@artultrakin5002 yeah I honestly couldn't agree more. Unfortunately for me most of my friends are sheep and are corrupted by confirmation bias and refused to see how garbage the MCU has become. And if I'm being honest I'm just sick and tired of superhero movies in general. These days it's just superhero this superhero that I just stopped caring for it and I'm not going to waste my money anymore, and I won't be hate watching anymore either; I just don't have the energy for it.
Because Cap is gone and so is Iron Man.
I disagree. They were the best movies.
They were the best Marvel movies we were gonna get. Something is always gonna be sacrificed.
You can't use hindsight as evidence.
This could've been done better. No!
If this was done better, that wouldn't have had the time it needed. Or the budget it needed. Or something.
Perfection cannot be achieved. Period.
Age of Ultron could not have been made better. Whatever you might have changed for the better, would've taken time or budget away from some other part of the film.
We got a good, mostly coherent path from Iron Man, to Infiniti War.
That's where it ends. Endgame is garbage.
Thanos Won. Achieved his goal.
Franchise concluded.
That time travel B.S. ruined the franchise moving forward. Destroyed all the stakes. Perverted the consequences. And look at what followed. Even without the woke bits..... the aftermath sucks.
We need a Thanos Wins box set, which includes a special alternate ending,CG footage, showing the afterglow of Thanos' victory, and it's effect on the MCU as it should've moved forward.
Providing a template for a future chance(in 10 or more years) at rebooting Endgame, and what follows it for the MCU.
@@Markbell73 🙄
The DCEU feels like that essay you write a few minutes before it's due.
Yes
Indeed.
As a DC fan, I feel like being a fan these days is like being in an abusive relationship. "It's okay. This time it will be different. You won't hurt me this time".
Betting on DC is like voting for democrats. They promise everything and deliver nothing.
Actually, I guess I could just say politicians because the republicans aren't doing any better anymore. 2 sides of the same coin.
@@MAGAMAN Exactly! Thats why 2 party system is the worst. Both serves the elite and you have no chance for change
@@gregorgerzson1767 antiwhite propaganda wasnt dcs problem, their first few movies in the dceu with white superman and batman were the worst ones. They just need coordination above all else and writers that know how to write a superhero story that isnt too grimdark or a 2 hour formulaic witticism.
@@nachoprime9649 Simplified what you said: Make a good movie.
@@thunderspark1536 well, they also need coordination like I said so that the movies flow together into a cohesive universe. Theres a few good movies in the dceu, but they go overlooked because the universe is such a mess overall.
"A delayed game is eventually good. A rushed game is forever rushed."
-Shigeru Miyamoto
Stop using this dumb quote
Too bad Steel Wool didn’t heed this when they made “Five Nights At Freddy’s: Security Breach”.
Well, until releasing patches became the norm.
@@dutchmansmine9053 It'll still be considered rushed.
Dead Matter, anyone?
Brilliant move by WB to drop Henry Cavill, Gal Gadot, Jason Momoa and Dwayne Johnson, while opting to keep the gender-fluid, shining beacon of morality that is Ezra Miller. That’s exactly the kind of person we need portraying our heroes.
At least they have Michael Shannon
What’s also amazing is that they fire Johnny Depp for false abuse allegations while keeping Ezra Miller despite the many crimes he did!! Man, they’re such geniuses!
Sad that they didn't dropped Ezra but they definitely need to drop The Rock before his effort in taking over DC and wanna make a whole franchise out of his own character that's barely a DC A lister
Do not humor them. You will only encourage Warner Brothers to make their current Amber Heard and Ezra Miller problem worse.
@@t1mburt0nsdandruffand amber heard
"The unspecified virus of unknown origin."🤣🤣🤣🤣 this always gets me
Don't tell me you're one of these conspiracy theorists who thinks it's a biological weapon by the CCP. They're a pretty shitty government that I'm not going to blame them for something that bad until there's clear enough proof
No virus ever escaped from a Chinese lab except that one time
It takes talent to mess up a Cinematic Universe when the rival company already drew the road map and you have the top 2 most recognizable heroes ever with tons and tons of comics to guide your character work, world building etc
Well, you already said it. The other company got there first.
THIS 100% - All they had to do was take the comic books, and put them on the screen. This would have required zero creativity or effort, and it's all the fans wanted. The biggest mistake right out the gate was their inability to understand the difference between comic books and graphic novels, as displayed by their idiotic decision to hire Snyder as showrunner based on his success adapting two extremely dark and gritty adult graphic novels, thinking "300 and Watchman look like comics, so this guy can do comics" while completely failing to understand the simple concept that they're called COMIC books for a reason. You cannot take a source material that is LITERAL Comedy and make it Tragedy.
Just reset the story all the time that will do.
@@VoxVeritasXXX There's countless examples of comics that are dark and gritty with DC superheroes that are fantastic, the problem is they had the wrong people writing them.
actually,it takes almost no effort at all. just put peoples that don't understand the comic they try to adapt as the executives for the movies,and wait for the disaster to happens.
What's kind of funny is that Zack Snyder did have a hand in the original WW filmed by Patty Jenkins (especially in terms of fight choreography and stunt work). So when they got rid of Snyder and gave her full control, it was a disaster waiting to happen
Because Character like her, Darkseid, are character that he can work good.
Batman, Superman
Meh
@@SubZero-hs9xc Don't be stupid and ignorant.
#BoycottWBD
#FireJamesGunn
#SellZSJLtoNetflix
#RestoreTheSnyderVerse
It's not allegedly. Snyder was involved in the script and did all the previs for the fights with his stunt team. They were posted for all to see.
@@papalaz4444244 I didn't know that tbh. Cool, it's not allegedly :D gonna edit ma post to reflect that
@@Arthas30000 They might still be on YT. Maybe on Snyder's Vimeo.
DCEU is like building a building without a blueprint
The buildings are also made from wood frame on some levels, steel on others, but with a quicksand as foundation. The shops in the building also sold manure flavoured hot dogs.
@@JnoPrds Lmao
The kids in southpark literally had better flow with Coon and Friends extended universe
@@JnoPrds accurate 💯
No, it's like trying to copy the blueprint of another working building but every single person working on it is drunk
I’ve said this a million times. If there’s no Lantern on the team, it’s not Justice League. Plain and simple.
Green lantern is nobody’s favorite superhero. The Martian manhunter of DC
@@Chadius_Thundercockthose two are both DC
Literally absolutely nobody cares
@fakanspider4939 r u serious? Green lantern is very very popular character,especially hal Jordan
@@debbiebrantley61 ur the only one who thinks that dude
And even after all that, dear Drinker, you failed to mention the biggest super villain of all:
Ezra Miller
Ezra Miller is the villain of James Gunn-verse.
Lol
Miller's Flash grated after a while, but I still think of the role as separate to the actor. His real life shenanigans are irrelevant to this review. Anyway, DC screwed-up big time without needing some scandal to push them along.
@@clogs4956 Still, other actors were fired for less, like Gina Carano.
But alas, she wasn't the main star in 200 millions movie.
I actually wanted to see this in the video.
"One can only imagine the delights of Nic Cage teaming up with the campiest Batman since Adam West". You got that right, mate.
How anyone could think Nicholas Cage should be Superman is beyond me. His dull face and dull personality are as far from Superman as can be.
@@Grasslander Should be far more entertaining than Zack Snyder's brooding Superman.
I could see the "potencial" in this. F for the "greatest" film we will never watch.
Cage as superman come on what fun
DC was always mostly dark I knew Gunn was going to destroy the DC universe, he was perfect for say Shazam but terrible for Batman, Aquaman, Superman, Wonder Women etc.
"All you had to do was follow the damn comics, DC" - Big Smoke
They wanted the shared universe and they wanted it now. They didn’t bother with the long VERY necessary process of building up their core characters. They tried to do the entirety of MCU Phase 1 in a single movie.
Henry Cavill deserved better. I actually love Man of Steel and there was room for that movie to lay groundwork for a superman everyone loves
He should play Sentry.
@@anubusx That would be a serious kick to the gut for WB....I hope it happens. WB fucked Cavill, it would be poetic justice if he played Marvels crazy Superman.
His Clark Kent was identical to his Superman. If you want to see Cavill put in a good performance watch The Tudors.
@@AntiLifeEquation1
Imagine he was Doom.
I liked Henry cavil but I didn’t enjoy many of steel too much with the weaknesses being kind of idiotic. I’d prefer a more rational film. The dark version of Superman was a reasonable reshape I could see Superman in but they could have shortened the length of his brooding.
What's funny is that the animated dcu is extremely good. Something like 11 movies ending a few years ago had non stop gems.
What were these movies? I'm not to knowledgeable about the animated movie side.
In true dc fashion, they did not market them at all nor put any on the big screen.
I bumped into them by accident and bought them on iTunes. They are great, but pricey. You could check to see if hbo max has them.
Flashpoint is amazing
@@joeclaridy Superman/Batman Public enemies
Superman/Batman: Apokolips
Justice League Doom
Justice League War
Justice League: Dark
Teen Titans Judas Contract
Teen Titans vs Justice League
Flashpoint Paradox
Justice league vs the...Furious 5( i think its in the same timeline)
Superman vs The Elite
Death of Superman
Reign of the Supermen
Justice League: Apokolips War
and...i think thats most of them. liked the Superman and TT ones the most gotta say. and these do run kinda in contrast to the show Young Justice which is great. so yeah have fun with that.
@@joeclaridy They are all on HBO Max I believe (though I'm not sure of the oldest ones), they had a few side ones that are basically "what-ifs" that don't connect to the others like Gotham by Gaslight (which is getting a sequel). But I don't remember the order to watch the oldest ones, but they made a fresh start with Flashpoint which is really good and introduces the new shared universe that begins with Justice League War (I think, there are a few justice league films) and ends with Constantine: Apokolips War, which ends with a similar thing as Flashpoint did, which is that it starts another new universe. This one Starts with Superman: Man of Tomorrow and the Flash: Justice Society (both are really good personally, but I don't know what other people think). However, those seem to be the only 2 in this new timeline or whatever you'd call it, and I think with the Discovery buyout they have canned any further movies. However, its still worth watching a lot of these and I'm sure there is a chronological list of which ones to watch.
@@webdude15 oh thanks for the list! I didn't see Justice League Babel on that list, the one where they find out that Batman had plans on how to stop each member of the league. I know it's based on a comic, but I thought it was still part of the movie continuity as well?
Snyder's vision was a take on DC universe that was at least totally different of what the mcu was giving at the time. Dark, sad and brutal, but the big heads wanted the flashy iron man jokes all over the place! The cast was good except for Miller, I never understood why this guy was chosen and also kept following all the sh!t he did 😅😂
Luthor was also badly casted tbh.
@Jimbo Bimbo the funniest thing is they could have casted him as the Joker and that would have made more sense.
It would have made more sense in Batman V Superman if it was the Joker pretending to be Lex Luthor to set up a fight between Batman and Superman just for chaos.
Miller must have a whole mountain of dirt on the heads of the Warner brothers to still be employed despite everyone else being cut loose
Nah, the whole of the DCEU Shouldn't have been dark, sad, and brutal. Superman isn't Batman and Batman isn't Superman nor is Wonder Woman. They each have different tones. Batman and Batman-esque characters have the darker tone. Superman has a lighter tone, etc. That was one of the major problems with the Snyderverse. He painted everything with the same tone. I could see if he handled all of the Batman films, but he shouldn't have been in charge of shaping the entire universe. I agree with Drinker here on this one as it was one of my main problems with Man of Steel (although unlike most people, as a Superman fan, I felt it was okay) and of course Bats v. Supes. The latter was pretty obvious that Snyder preferred doing Batman stories, which is fine, and is what the execs should've recognized and let him handle rather than give him the keys to the whole castle and then undercut him at every time. I do admit that if they were going to give him the keys to the castle, they should've at least committed to it longer than they did. But I just don't think a dark, broody, DCEU would've worked. Should've been more balanced than MCU was at the time.
Where did this idea that DC is then darker, sadder, and brutal counterpart to Marvel come from? Anyone who knows anything about the DC Universe should know that is NOT the tone across the entire universe and all characters. There are stories that are full of comedy, some full of tragedy, romance, etc. It’s a mixed bag. So while Batman might sometimes brood and hunt down serial killers that mutilate peoples bodies, you also have characters like the Teen Titans who at the end of the day are just super powered kids (and act as such). Booster Gold who is an insecure time traveler looking for validation from others. Superman who is THE beacon of hope and optimism. He is the prime exception of never backing down in the face of adversity and pushing through it all. DC is such a diverse bag of stories and characters. It’s almost kind of disrespectful to try and make everything the same that ruins what makes the universe feel so relatable and real.
The FACT that I haven't watched 2/3rds of the movies shown says it all.
The batman vs. Superman truly did break it for me
I'm gonna say it. I think Justice League Snyder's cut is one of the best superhero movies ever made. There.
Its odd to say, but I have never even seen Affleck as Batman.
@@babaroga73 You must have really low standards.
Doom Patrol series is a hidden gem. If you would mind giving DC a chance, watch it before anything else. It's just brilliant
@@babaroga73 it's good, but bloated lol
And like the Chad Henry Cavill is, shortly after being ejected from the Superman Seat, he found himself a Seat at the helm of a Warhammer series. Sweet justice that.
Nobody finna watch that bullshit.
He should be Karl Franz in Fantasy but he's probably going to end up being Rowboat Girlyman in 40K.
Cavill seems to be a genuinely good guy and a massive nerd. It's a shame he was never given a good superman movie, because he is more than perfect for that role.
The fact that Amazon is producing it still keeps me from expecting anything out of it after the absolute disasters that were Rings of Power and the Wheel of Time.
His devotion to the source material to the point of losing out on millions has made me respect him so much. What an absolute legend.
What's so baffling is that EVERY project had a chance at succeeding at some point and WB managed to interfere every time. Joker was infamously the film they cared for the least and it shows with the budget and the marketing. It turned out one of the very best and their most profitable hit in terms of budget/box office ratio. Crazy that they kept hiring directors to NOT let them direct.
Well you can't say that to all, pretty sure Patty Jenkins had a lot of creative freedom for WW84 and that turned out to be a disaster
@@4deleDaz33m
The success of the first wonder woman had more to do with Snyder than people realise.
@@4deleDaz33m Patty Jenkins WAS the studio interference.
@@paulpesci1 Well yeah of course Snyder had story credit but Jenkins did a good job in the first movie too
@@4deleDaz33m
Snyder had a LOT to do with the action scenes as well. His mark is all over them.
$890 million - failure
$150 million - success
That's some back bending shit right there
After the beast that marvel became, everyone expects their solo movies to make billions and end up disappointed. Even the first iron man was 7th in it's box office run, and that started the whole thing.
Which movies are you referring to?
It doesn't matter how good the Box office is, if the movie get bad received it still considering as failure, if the movie good and people love it they will continuing it, yes BvS made 800million but that just because it's DC movie with Batman and Superman in it not because the movie good, BvS still one of the worst superhero movie ever made, and people need to pay a ticket before watching the movie, that's why the movie still makes money, and yes The Suicide Squad only made 150millions but that's not because the movie was bad but because Covid, HBO Max and R rated, if that movie release around 2016-2018 it probably would make more money than DC movie with Superman and Batman in it, that's because the movie was good and people/critics love it
@@coomiler6490 Not only that but the Suicide Squad that had came before it had most likely turned away a lot of movie-goers and watchers.
@@coomiler6490 Freeguy made 331 million, with a smaller box officer, than The Suicide Squad. Both released nearly the same time. An awesome movie is going to draw in numbers most of the time and The Suicide Squad is not an awesome movie, but a decent one, hence its pathetic performance in the box office. If it was as much of a success as some critics claim it to be it would have drawn more people in for sure.
Man, imagine if DC took their time and slowly released each film…..
What if we had got George Miller's Justice League back in 2008?
I think what adds even more to this tragedy is that if WB had taken their time to build their own universe the right way, they could have capitalized very well these days as the MCU has been going downhill.
Hell, it could have gone better. If the DCEU was a better rival, then Marvel wouldn't have gone fat and lazy monopolizing their early lead and would still actually put in the effort since they can't afford to take it easy with DCEU doing so well. It's tbe best of both worlds, but sadly it didn't happen that way.
@brug master The superhero genre, on its own, still has legs. Always will, there are always nerds like me, who love superheroes. The problem, is that all the new Marvel movies are less concerned with telling good stories, and more concerned with pushing THE MESSAGE!!! And DC, like the Drinker says, has just flopped too hard to come back. Even DC was going down eh woke path, with Walter IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT HIS NAME IS. His solution to their problems was "Let's be inclusive, by excluding all men". Not what we want, Scooter. Making all the male characters female will net you the small handful of woke wankers, and alienate the rest of the audience. At this point, DC needs a start over, but part of what you say is true: the masses are tired of it, so it will flop, because they just saw all this, and now they're starting over. The old saying "How can we miss you if you won't go away?" Superman Returns did as well as it did, because it had been years since we last saw Christopher Reeve (the REAL Superman), and we all wanted something to wash Superman IV out of our memories. Batman Begins worked because it had been so long since Clooney destroyed Batman (and even he has admitted that), plus, it gave Batman his balls back, and made him a bad ass, and not a toy commercial.
If the MCU had stuck to telling good stories, with good actors, and competent writing, instead of pushing THE MESSAGE, they'd still be doing just fine.
@brug master the Superhero genre hasn’t run it’s course. Marvel is trying to force politics down people’s throats instead of telling good stories. DC could easily take over as the new juggernaut
@brug master yep they missed the window, everyone is sick of superhero movies now
Definitely, could've seen a huge shift as people hauled ass off that sinking ship and flocked to DC. Any port in a storm, but all the better if it's a quality port. I don't think the interest in superheroes is gone (though perhaps has waned somewhat), it's that we don't want lousy, uninspired, pandering-to-some and demeaning-to-others plots
It really is tragic, because their animated work is still very strong and effective, and they could do the same with their films, but went all the wrong directions except by accident
except they totally ignored that fact
and as a result, never consulted with guys like timm and dimi or brought over any of the writers of those movies and shows
@@thewkovacs316 Timm is the obvious choice to run the DCEU, not Gunn, but Warner still doesn't quite get comic book movies.
@@CalebBerman I don't think you can get into heaven automatically even if you believe. It takes more than that
A BTAS-style series starring Jensen Ackles would be ideal
@@CalebBerman I saw Jesus in a dream recently... he told me to ask you to shut up
Can't remember where I saw it, but I saw someone say that Snyder tries to put the amazing moments on screen without doing the legwork for the payoff. That scene in Miller's Dark Knight Returns when Batman beats Superman in the power armor was awesome because everyone knew the history. In the movies we didn't have that. That decision to do the Batman vs Superman fight when they first meet would be like doing the Civil War movie before the first Avengers movie.
In stark contrast, the monster verse started off with Godzilla, but legendary instead of rushing to the big crossover, decided to first introduce Kong in his own standalone movie, make a sequel to Godzilla, and then make the big crossover movie. And look what it's done! It's effectively created a new giant monster movie Renaissance and launched itself as a possibly mainstay franchise that's picking up traction in a decade where the MCU is starting to fall. Imagine if the dceu decided to take their time, this could have been them!
And yet MonsterVerse movies is distributed by the same studio who ruined the DCEU
Three of the most popular and well-known characters, decades of stories to adapt, and a huge fanbase. What could go wrong? Umm, you name it.
It's crazy. All those recourses to make awesome movies...
@@bighand1530 noooo bvs is a masterpieceeee! You don't understand snyder vision you marvel fanboy!
@@bighand1530 (satire)
Well for a start you're talking about three characters that don't really fit together - That's why they forced through an immediate Batman vs Superman!
Justice League's big mistake was having Wonder Woman and Aquaman be DRASTICALLY weaker than Superman - The two of them together should have been able to subdue him {especially with help from Batman, Flash and Cyborg} so we didn't have to have that silly scene with his mother.
I know Superman comic fans have a bee in their bonnets about Superman having to be ridiculously overpowered BUT that's a big problem when you're making a team-up movie {or comic}!
It's always been silly for Batman to be on an equal footing with these guys {and girls} in the first place but it becomes a bigger problem when Batman is shown to be able to take on Superman alone {BvS} but then Wonder Woman, Aquaman, Flash, Cyborg and Bats can't take him on together {Justice League}.
Then you're stuck with a Superman level villain in Justice League that the rest of them cannot cope with together but Superman then comes in and blows him away with ease.
I actually enjoyed Whedon's Justice League btw and did NOT enjoy Snyder's cut BUT the biggest complaints I heard about Whedon's Justice League {other than simple butt-hurt that the sacred Snyder Cut wasn't a thing} were NOT even addressed by the Snyder Cut {when we finally got it}...
- Superman is still vastly stronger than the rest of them combined
- Superman still blows Steppenwulf away when the rest are getting their collective arses kicked!
Worse though - The Snyder Cut actively goes back to the nihilistic BvS in tone and is immensely long and overblown {just like BvS}!
"What could go wrong?" Unfortunately, they took that as a challenge.
*Ben Affleck’s Batman Movie* sounded like the Batman movie I’ve always wanted to see.. him and the guy who played Deathstroke - were using the Arkham games as inspiration for the fight scenes… while Ben himself wanted to delve into Bruce’s psyche by having him be thrown in Arkham and fight for his life against his rogues gallery - while Deathstroke kills his closest allies.. could’ve been the most comic book accurate Batman ever just saying 🤷🏾♂️
Minus killing everyone unless really needed
marko 2001 - Funny enough the film was meant to delve into the repercussions of him killing apparently as in Batman's murder spree prior to BvS he killed someone close to Slade and thus Slade spent years enacting a plan to ruin Bruce's life… plus every Batman has killed - it’s not just Snyder’s version
And then Hamada come in and wanted to replace him with Keaton, and then Batgirl
Common Hamada L
@@marko-gj1uj Did you SEE him kill EVERYBODY , it seems that echo chamber has added some things in over the years.
FYI those guys with BlackedOut Faces in the nightmare scene were originally suppose to appear in Suicide Squad but was changed to black bubbly headed zombies instead. In other words there weren't human anymore so shooting them were OK, only 2 people who were shot were inside the truck , but it was dream anyway not real, Yet
I prefer him over that depressing piece of shit with a Halloween mask, The Batman.
Basically boiled to this:
WB hired a guy to run everything and then micromanaged everything he did and questioned every decision he made. They then went ahead and tried to change the tone of everything that was set up. They then went ahead and ignored the fans while trying to make themselves more and more like Marvel.
Basically, WB had no plan and didn’t bother to come up with one even when things started to spiral out of control.
Edit: wrote this before watching the video. Glad to see most of what I thought happened is what happened
WB's only plan was to make mega money like MCU, without the patience, creative discipline, tonal unity or continuity MCU committed to for a decade.
Except for the part where WB micromanaged everything. They let Snyder do his thing for MoS & BvS, and most of pre-production for JL. It's only after the reception to BvS that they started fiddling and questioning. But the rest of it is pretty spot on.
@@keshaponso2034 FALSE. He wanted to make MOS2. They forced him to make BVS.
@@darksidebluez5966
You are 100% wrong.
Please check your facts. That was the speculation from YEARS ago.
Completely agree!
Affleck & Cavil were the perfect castings ..
The loss of an Affleck solo Batman film is always going to be a huge “what if” for me ..
Never liked affleck as batman.
Affleck was a great Batman simply because of his size. Batman was always a huge hulking guy, none of the other actors portraying him had the bulk to be a great Batman (though Bale came close in Batman Begins). Plus Affleck was the best Bruce Wayne of all of them.
@@johnkenerson71 I thnk Afflect was a great Bruce Wayne but a terrible Batman.
@@bobhoskins124 alright mr Woke, you've got the soft, androgynous twilight guy for your batman now
@@Dan_Therapist didn’t watch that haha.
The saddest part about all this is that, at the same time this was happening, DC created an animated shared movie universe that went from pretty good to excelent, even having an "Endgame"-style conclusion.
Hell, DC had a shared animated universe with it's TV cartoons in the 90s and early 2000s. I'm still baffled that they couldn't pull it off in live action.
Amen to that.
I've always thought they should've paid Bruce Timm and his crew a ton of money to put together a live action DC universe. They did an amazing job with the animated series.
This. This cannot be said enough. The animated division often produced movies and shows with more emotion and feeling than HOURS of live-action films.
@@jmaritg3830 Hell if anyone could have made an at least good Harley Quinn movie - it's Bruce Timm. Seeing as he created the character and all.
The suits don't care about animation and hence offer creative freedom
Over the past 35 years I’ve known quite a few people who worked for Warner’s as writers, directors, producers, and animators. None of them had a positive experience, and most of their productions either flopped, or never made it to the theater, or were basically buried by the studio (The Iron Giant). The studio needed to clean house 3 decades ago.
How is it then that DCs Animated movies are Amazing?!
From the early 1990s to the end of 2000s, though, they managed to get blockbuster success after success. Their strategy is to bet on a few megahits, it worked well for them until they started to follow Marvel in their Cinematic Universe bullcrap and their "auteurs" ripping off Nolan' s Batman. Funny enough, the only big Hollywood studios that I heard staffs having some positive experience is Disney, but they were reminicing about good old days.
All they had to do was take the comic books, and put them on the screen. This would have required zero creativity or effort, and it's all the fans wanted. The biggest mistake right out the gate was their inability to understand the difference between comic books and graphic novels, as displayed by their idiotic decision to hire Snyder as showrunner based on his success adapting two extremely dark and gritty adult graphic novels, thinking "300 and Watchman look like comics, so this guy can do comics" while completely failing to understand the simple concept that they're called COMIC books for a reason. You cannot take a source material that is LITERAL Comedy and make it Tragedy.
I had a TV Media Productions teacher in high school who was an animator at Warner Bros, and he was actually responsible for some of the frames in Batman: Mask Of The Phantasm.
I believe it’s only about 30-40 seconds worth of animation that he was responsible for, possibly even less….but then again….are animators actually being used to create movies anymore?
Seems like a dying art nowadays….
@@dennisrounds1996 lol They aren't though, the DCAMU was dogshit
Man of Steel is a movie tha grows on you. I didn't like it when it was first released, but now it's one of my favourite origin story movies of all time.
Yeah bad things can grow on you but they are still bad it is just you got used to it.
@THOM Gizziz I still can't get used to Suicide Squad or Captain Marvel, but whatever you say, bud.
So far, Batman Begins is the best superhero origin story ever made. It's so perfect.
@@BrandonNielsen87 And The Dark Knight is the best sequel
The most important time spent on any project is the planning. Once that's done you've got to commit. Nothing dooms a project like "quick, stop everything and scramble to chase this new trend!"
Well you know businessmen. They think art can be rushed.
Trends can kill you in the business world. If DC had stuck to their original plan of making the Death of Superman then they would've been fine. Would they have surpassed Marvel probably not but their books would've been in the black not red. Sure some would've hated the darker tone but that doesn't mean it would've been a failure. If having a darker film meant failure then the Dark Knight trilogy and the Snyder Cut wouldn't have been popular.
"Supergirl was axed, and so was an almost finished Batgirl, not to mention Legends of Tomorrow, Stargirl, Batwoman, and Batman Beyond"
God bless that man
DM ME 🎁🎁👆👆....
Well i kinda want batman beyond if its like the old cartoon but yeah glad they still made this move
They might be able to pull off a doom patrol movie, if there's an audience for just weird. DC's legends was actually a fun show the first seasons but then they focused on the fugly gay blonde girl, don't see how they'd do a movie with that.
The hero we need but don't deserve
if they did it right, batman beyond would be so sick, but you just know they will turn it into a complete transformer fest, probably making terry mcginnis a transformer as well
I personally loved aquaman. I'd say it's even my favorite dc film thus far. Cool action scenes, gorgeous visuals, a great journey/arc for arthur, atlantis backstory, serious moments, funny moments, etc. It's an easy re-watch & understandable why it was a financial/critical success.
The early "Production Hell" videos on the channel are still among my favorites as they have given me so many laughs, which feel well needed in these times. Hoping that this part of the channel continues and would love to get the Drinker's take on some of the comically nightmarish shoots of films like "Fitzcarraldo", "Beowulf & Grendel" and "Heaven's Gate" (1980).
And one for the Behind-the-Scenes of Don't Worry Darling....
Oh yeah please! Enough of this superhero geek culture shit!
'Production Hell - Space Cop'
I think the problem they had is they tried too hard to not be Marvel that they weren't being DC. They have so many unique and amazing characters, they didn't need to play catch up, but they just wanted the profits of Marvel, but didn't want to do what it took to get what Marvel got.
Then again, they wanted DSHEU to compete with the MSHEU. So they made all the wrong choices, but avoided future blunders.
I didn't hate it. Critical drinker is having a go at them for failing in having a unified vision. I liked the snyder films. I liked that they created some Batman and Joker films that were separate. I'm not a comic reader, but my understanding is they do different versions of the same characters and some runs are universes unto themselves. I don't hate their approach. I like tonal shifts and little intriguing creative dead ends. Comics strike me as a postmodern art form. And while 'suicide squad' was 90% terrible, the emotional/moral core surrounding El Diablo was unexpected and more interesting to me than anything in the MCU.
But (with commercial fare) the audience is never wrong. If DC failed with the messaging to allow themselves to operate on different expectations, then that's on them.
All they had to do was take the comic books, and put them on the screen. This would have required zero creativity or effort, and it's all the fans wanted. The biggest mistake right out the gate was their inability to understand the difference between comic books and graphic novels, as displayed by their idiotic decision to hire Snyder as showrunner based on his success adapting two extremely dark and gritty adult graphic novels, thinking "300 and Watchman look like comics, so this guy can do comics" while completely failing to understand the simple concept that they're called COMIC books for a reason. You cannot take a source material that is LITERAL Comedy and make it Tragedy.
i always had the impression DC didn't want to be like Marvel until things had already started and then at the last minute someone decided they Do want to be like Marvel but by then it was too late and everything suffered because of it.
Granted i still think Ben Aflec could have been an amazing Batman\Bruce if he had a good script to work with, same as Henry and Superman.
They could literally just start a "new" universe using them and i don't think anyone would really mind that much. 🤷♂️
@@VoxVeritasXXX Adapting to a different medium _always_ takes creativity and effort. Not the same kind as something new, it's a different (if related) skill set. But static drawings don't translate to moving pictures (especially live-action, or the pretense of it) at anything like 1:1. So you have to change things, and being able to figure out how to do so (and especially what to include and what to leave out, since you only have a limited runtime for your movie) takes skill and creativity.
Probably one of the most epic and weirdly tragic stories in film history. Great video by the way.👍
If you want to know what is the most epic and weirdly tragic stories in the film industry. Then you check out what Disney did to Star Wars and what they are currently doing to Marvel.And that is , they're destroying them along with the Indiana Jones franchise. Now that's a tragic story.
@@markmolino679 Agree.
"You either die a hero, or live long enough to see yourself become the villain."
You're giving Whedon too much credit here.
Indeed. He had to try and patch an awful movie with studio specifications in mind at the last minute, no way anyone could've pulled it off.
@@asdergold1 True, but I also don't think that Whedon, especially, was the right choice here. His style was too far different from Snyder's. He just wasn't the guy for the job.
@@krasskswg Probably
Having the Drinker say his "go away now" over Will Smiths face was perfect.
SLAP!
I like to imagine a world where warner just said "HEY!!! animation team, yeah you guys are now making the live action movies"
At least have those guys write the scripts!
That would be cool. I recently found out about the 2009 animated WW film and it was really great.
That “At Worlds End” clip was amazing. Love that film
at this point i hope at the very least we get an animated continuation of Zach Snyder's vision
The Adam West Batman was indeed campy. But they owned it. And it’s a fun version of Batman. I grew up with it being rerun when I was a kid before the ‘89 Batman film. I still like it for what it is.
DM ME 🎁🎁🎁👆👆...
Batman '66 is awesome from the immortal theme tune to "special guest villains". It also shares it's universe with another dynamic duo...Green Hornet and Kato.
Yeah, at least West seemed invested in the role.
West always played it seriously. It was the situations and villains that made it silly. Which fit with villains who weren't quite right in the head...
Loved Adam West and the whole concept it parodied the source material but still respected it making li easy to invest in the story
Wow, having lived through the several years and then having it condensed like this is brutal. (but very true). I have to say, looking at the upcoming roster, I don't have much hope its gonna get much better.
I’m still a huge fan of Zack Snyder’s vision. I know it wasn’t a perfect representation for every fan, and there were some decisions that might have failed, but a lot of his stuff I still enjoyed. I put a lot of the blame on Warner Bros for trying to control things behind the curtain with rushing the timeline and messing with all of the re-editing (butchering) for their films.
😂
While I'd like to see him do more with Batman, he is a terrible pick for Superman.
@@TheresaMayPMI get what you're saying but he was perfect for Superman. He's a religious man in an era of rising nihilism, so he applied that logic to Superman and I think it was brilliant. The universal truth of being good costs you was addressed in Snyder's Superman. He kept evaluating himself in an increasingly toxic world where being good was criticized because those who smear without any morality was like winning and his 'Hope' was being tested. A Superman who saves kittens is annoying, Snyder's Superman was an extraordinary take. The vfx were brilliant, miles better than Marvel. His take was more relevant and pragmatic, not breezy like marvel. He embodied the spirit of DC. Gunn is anything but DC. Would've preferred James Wan over him. Coz Gunn isn't Fridge, what you need is a mastermind like Feige not a creative artiste which Gunn is. Wan on the other hand ran the Conjuring franchise which had multiple crossovers and done brilliantly with commercial success. Even the insidious never became a trope. He would've more suited. Sadly DC is in decline.
I thought MoS was incredible. I’m not sure why the Drinker calls it and BvS nihilist, as though it was unmoored from morality, when it was about strong men and women FACING nihilism and they price they paid for doing so.
@@GokulOnFire I agree,also Gunn will make the DCEU a JOKE.All you have to see is the shows he plans to launch. Yes his movies are great absurd silly fun, which are words that dont work well with Batman or Superman.
“What would it look like if everything that could possibly go wrong with a shared cinematic universe actually went wrong?”
DCEU: “Challenge accepted!”
I mean, geez, not even the X-Men franchise was this much of a disaster.
@@darkseid6898 SnyderVerse was boring af.
Universal's Dark Universe: "We can do worse!"
Nah, that's not what the DCEU represents. If it did, there wouldn't actually be any good movies, and maybe this is just me, but in spite of the ones that frankly weren't very good, I think most of them were perfectly good and entertaining films. A better example of a complete abject failure of a shared cinematic universe was the shortlived Dark Universe from Universal.
@@Tyler_W Or any of the dozens of Sony's failed attempts to make a cinematic universe.
As a former DC Comics super fan, Im gutted by what the comics and film divisions of the company have become. I went from easily spending $1k+ per year in DC Comics products 15 years ago to barely buying a Batman tshirt or 2 per year at this point and thats a pretty common story in my friend group (although the exact same goes for Marvel Comics as well). We are the guys that funded the industry and I simply cant be bothered with it anymore.
They threw us in the trash, to attract the diverse new fans, only those fans were figments of their imagination.
@@ComicGladiator It's incredibly dumb how these companies bow to these woke losers. They are not fans, not of comic books, not of video games, not of sports, etc. A few are, but I mean a legion of hardcore dedicated fans they are not. But companies will fall over themselves to virtue signal to these losers, whether it's promoting the alphabet community in commericals, cancelling someone when one pathetic loser complains about them on Twitter, or casting according to DIE instead of who's best for the role.
@Beaver House yep. Same here.
what a waste of a great fan. you have my respect, and my sympathy.....DC wronged you.
Nerd
I actually like the gritty violent Batman Ben Affleck played.
Same. Character design reminded me of Hush.
Me too. Going into Batman V Superman, I thought Ben Affleck would have been the worst part of the movie. Afterwards, I thought he was the only part done right.
The apocalyptic trenchcoat motif reminds me of Damian Wayne in Batman #666
That is the exact reason why batffleck failed, snyder didnt understand what made batman special, he made batman without the soul, he uses guns and kills, he swears too much and doesnt have the wisdom nor level head he had in tgw comics or animated universe, and overall he's just the punisher in a bat costume. Batman is violent, yes, but he only does what he think is neccesary, he doesnt kill, whoch gives him a sense of justice/discipline, he doesnt cause collateral damage just for the sake of it, and behind all that darkness is a broken man who doesnt want any kid to feel the darkness he feels, and that is supposed to be his drive, he has a layer of compassion and heart, like when he comforted ace in JLU or when he comforted Mary Dahl in btas, and ultimately, thats what batffleck was missing, the heart, the discipline and the soul.
@@3X3LR8 "it's not smoke. It's anesthetic gas." Batman was also very clever in the face of his enemies. Eventually, he would find your weakness. Batfleck just missed by miles.
Not a comic movie fan aside from the Batman movies, but I really did enjoy Man of Steel, Batman vs Superman Directors Cut and the Snyder Cut. Thought it was a little darker, more realistic, and there weren’t lame dad jokes every 5 minutes.
As a comic nerd,didn't like depressed superman on black suit who is all about kicking bad guys ass instead of saving any civilians life...and batman breaking his one major rule which defined who he meant to be...
@@tonuahmed4227 For Black Superman In Snyder Cut, there was no plot where they could have shown him save civilians. Whedon added russian family forcibly - you know how that turned out to be. Coming to BVS's Batman - that was intentionally done. He was meant to be totally broken, angry and pessimistic at all times due to various events throughout his bat career. By the end of movie and supes sacrifice. He was transformed again and now we see him actually caring for civilians in the Snyder cut. I would suggest you should rewatch Man Of Steel and BVS UE again. You might gain a new perspective.
Totally agree.
Same for me. They did some things right. Shazam was a good movie but it didnt tie into anything.
That was Batman's redemption,but what about superman?in wheadon cut superman carried whole building and saved many,while flash dealt with Russian family and honestly that was one of only bearable moment in wheadon cut...and tbh wheadons superman was more accurate to comics than Snyder tho wheadon butchered everything else(which IMO wasn't wheadons fault...he started to work on halfass project visioned by someone very different from his perspective,and started reshooting while maintaining most of story and trying to deliver it on the deadline producers demanded)...also,batman was supposed to change after finding out who is Martha,that was the whole point of Martha moment yet we saw most brutal murder fight scene that batman did while saving Martha...
You can have a movie where you show a sht, dark and bleak world with heroes that have heart, warmth and just refuse to back down and give up and thus the movie can be very heavy and dark yet also heartwarming and hopeful. But to do that you need competent writers and other film staff and probably no studio meddling.
The dark knight I think did it pretty well.
'No studio meddling' leads to creators stuck up their own asses, instead of trying to navigate someone else's. Somebody needs to be able to tell them no.
@@boobah5643 I'm not an expert. But I am leaning towards a "happy middle ground" in this case...
I think we would've gotten that if they'd stayed the course. Sure not all of the films would've been billion dollar gems like in the MCU but they could've potentially gotten better over time without studio interference. Alas, we would never know how things would've ended.
@@jmaritg3830 And Watchmen. And Logan. But those were standalone pretty much.
You should do a multi-hour epic Production Hell episode about post-Endgame Marvel lol
@Chad 007 These bots still exist?
Bro would need a cinematic universe of his own to get that project done
Yes, I would want to see that!!
Let’s not also forget the massive success that was, “The Batman”. A movie that was completely separate from the DCEU and turned out great like “Joker”. Can’t wait for both of those sequels. Let’s see what happens with the new DCEU under Gunn.
7:35 Afleck: "Shhh!!"
*Quietly Exits Room*
Years ago, I criticized Man of Steel. After the release of BvS and Josstice League, I found an appreciation for the more serious tone Man of Steel had. It felt like a reasonable tone to take for Superman's beginning, especially since Jonathan Kent is dead in this iteration. Maybe they would have had him be more optimistic and light-hearted in a later installation, showing that Clark has matured and has become used to his responsibility but doesn't let it weigh on his shoulders, and also that he sees the Justice League as true friends he can trust and care about.
Cavill did an amazing job as Superman, and I'm disappointed in myself for not appreciating it sooner.
DM ME 🎁🎁👆👆...
Strangely, I always like the dark of Man of Steel. I actually don't feel much in the boy-scout attitude of Superman. To me, one cant never found happy and forgiveness without being badly hurt. Man of Steel show why Superman is Superman: not because he cannot be hurt, but because he always overcome it.
Superman wasn't superman yet, and Batman wasn't batman anymore, but after the events of BVS and the Snyder Cut, They've became who they're supposed to be and I really appreciated the Snyderverse, shame it got yeeted to the Phantom Zone.
Yeah, but Man of Steel is still trash.
@@themexican8720 I disagree now, I personally like the movie, but I won't say it's perfect since everyone has their own tastes.
I recently started re-watching the Justice League and Justice League Unlimited animated shows. They're so fucking good, with great character moments and deep philosophical questions. It makes me so sad to think of how good the DCEU could have been, and compare it to what we actually got.
Those are my favorite series from my childhood, and they still hold up today! They strike a great balance to be interesting enough for adults, and not too dark for kids.
JL and JL Unlimited are DC perfection. It’s a crime that HBO Max is removing them but renewing Velma
I own that entire series . you are correct, they are awesome. All DC had to do with their movies is copy the cartoons.
DC has had a lot of success with TV, particularly with the Arrowverse as well as a whole slew of animated shows. But they just couldn't get their movie universe to work because they were trying to force it rather than letting it evolve naturally.
DCA had it together.
The ben Affleck Batman directed by Snyder could have the saviour of Dceu
this was a great video man a lot of research must have went into this video and it shows good job!
I've always found it fascinating how Drinker puts together his footage. With Mauler, it's always a beat-by-beat format where everything on screen is used for illustrating something specific, be it a scene or reaction to said scene and a sequence can only make sense within a specific time, whereas Drinker lays out these set-pieces that flow into each other and can be used at any point in time and its main purpose is to entertain the viewer without detracting from the commentary, only using a bit of specific editing with images and memes. Just an observation, great video!
Great analyzation!
@@liamphibia Thank you!
I want a feature length documentary about this mess some day. Featuring the CW verse which confoundingly ran parallel to the film universe they were doing at the same time. Bonkers
Batman V. Superman(Ultimate Cut) was actually really good.
I'm someone who actually appreciated Man Of Steel.
No, it's not good.
@@Horrormaster13 well it is your opinion let others enjoy what they like .
The Ultimate Cut certainly made more sense as a film - funny how 30 minutes of important stuff can make or break a film...
@@Horrormaster13 What don't you like about it?
@George Cadenas BvS (Ultimate Cut) improves the movie (and by that I mean it makes some incomprehensible parts comprehensible) but it doesn't add enough value to justify watching more of the movie because the script is poorly written.
Jesse Eisenberg's Lex Luther still f*cking sucks, the whole "Martha" thing is just laughable and the whole Doomsday stuff is just...bad!
You know what’s really sad? They probably could’ve rushed a Justice League movie into theaters, since most people are very familiar with DC heroes because of shows like Justice League Unlimited and the 80’s DC movies. Unfortunately, these new movies were trying to push “new and improved” versions of the characters, meaning they HAD to make new movies to introduce them to us
Ironically, that was going to be the case back in 2006. George Miller (Mad Max and Happy Feet) was giving the role of director for a Justice League movie called "Justice League: Mortal", that would have been a springboard for a DCU a year before Iron Man and the MCU began.
Unfortunately The Writers Strike of 2007 along with studio mandates prevented that movie from coming out and it was cancelled a week before filming.
It's been a while since the last Production Hell video. I'm glad to see it back!
Been a while since anything but after hours clips Tbh..
A back door entry into Wonder Woman? Oh Drinker, you could have phrased that better!
Considering her said intro and not entry means he did phrase it better
@@dubioushumor9243 I remember, back in the 20th century, that there used to be a thing called 'humour', and people could discern when someone was making a joke.
They really missed the boat on the superhero genre. Warner's best hope right now would be to rest the characters, then focus on stand-alone films based on their most bankable characters (Batman, Superman), doing sequels where they get a hit. Attempting to build a cinematic universe of the kind Marvel enjoyed would at this stage be like going heavy on spaghetti westerns.
Drinker, this is a fantastic synopsis, well done, really enjoyed it.
Also heard that the WB execs were to receive a bonus if JL was completed before year end. Synders family tragedy would have delayed the JL film until the new year so they hired Weadon to finish
That explains a lot
yikes on a bike! gosh that's brutal
I’ve also heard that the studio execs wanted to fire Snyder anyway, and used his daughters suicide as an opportunity to push him out with dignity. I hope your explanation is the correct one
and justice was served for WB's DCEU (read: Dumb C*nts Exasperating Us)
Indeed
Glad to see more of this series, thanks for bringing it back!
I feel like if DC had made Zac Snyder their version of Kevan Feige it could have been a great cinematic universe. I really liked the more serious sombre tone of his vision, I just think some of his movies may have been better if he was overseeing other directors rather than directing it all himself.
Would have loved to see his version of an Aquaman movie.
no...
yes...
@@magneto228 Basically, because no one kicked his ass into the right direction. Reigning him in clearly wasn't enough or the right move by itself.
I think Wonder Woman basically proves this theory that it would’ve been better for Synder to be in a head support role. Patty Jenkins directed and Zack Synder wrote the script and advised her.
Actually, yeah. Snyder directing them all by himself would make some of his movies rather weak.
I suspect the main problem in Hollywood is you have two broad categories of people: Those who can manage a business and those who can create content. They are not mutually exclusive but it seems that way sometimes. And when you have hundred million dollar productions it can be difficult coordinating the Managers and the Creatives. Thats why low budget TV shows like Barry can thrive and big expensive multi-movie projects either fall apart or at least fail to recoup their investment.
Great content as always my good man.
In retrospect, Ben Affleck hitting the bottle might have been the best strategy for dealing with the DCEU.
The DCEU made someone NOT want to portray Batman. Like, how bad is it that that can happen?
Or for dealing with being Ben Affleck.
Ouch. Also, accurate.
What's worse it looks like to be a family trait from father's side, at least. Affleck's dad was a heavy alcoholic. It's always sad to see happening, whatever one may think of the person in question otherwise.
Actually it kind of gave his portrayal of Bruce Wayne some dimension. If I'd spent 20 years going toe to toe with every psychotic maniac in my city while wearing fancy dress to hide my identity I would probably have hit the bottle as well!
Can we just take a moment and acknowledge the writing, research, and presentation of this video. Good Lord, it's like listening to a creative writer's master's thesis. Almost 20 minutes of succinct, decriptive, diagnosis, prognosis, and homage. You drinker never disappoint, and I pray you never tire of this work. Far better than the paid hacks that many critics became. I'm a life long follower. Cheers mate🍻
Not at all. Like Kevin Feige, the studio brought in Christopher Nolan and David Goyer to create the DCEU (they both produced and wrote MoS and BvS) not Snyder, Snyder was hired by Nolan to direct those movies. That's one among many things he missed, it wasn't well researched.
Well said sir.
And like the hokey pokey...
that's what it's all about.
Lmao, it's just a recap mate nothing that special
This is just recap lol.
Nothing special. A dozen other channels have been making videos about this a while ago.
And criticizing and actually creating are two different things. Just because you can point out other's errors, doesn't mean you are excel at it. Have you read his works for you to say he is a creative writer? ?
@@snailthelostcow63 I don't know mate it was pretty entertaining. With over 1.5 million followers he must be doing something right. Best of the breed IMO.
For as much unfair and arguably impossible to overcome pressure that was placed on BvS during its production, I’ve gotta say I think Snyder, Goyer, Terrio, and Nolan made a remarkable film. I get why it’s divisive with its take on the DC characters, but I think the vision was at least clear, well planned, and would’ve been much better than what we ended up with. I hope in 10 years more folks view BvS as an example of “art from adversity”
If there was a button that you could push that would erase all and any signs of all these superhero films then I’d push it without a second thought.
All WB had to do was adapt the DCAU and call it a day. Everything they needed and wanted to do was already done in animated form.
Isn't that what they tried to do with Superman Returns and Green lantern?? And they both flopped!!
@@9theaman , no neither of those live action movies drew from an Animated series.
That's what James Gun Is doing Right Now Ig.
All I want Is a Good Superman and Batman Movie
... already storyboarded.
Dcau was amazing. It's final came ad a surprise tho, out of knowwhere when the movies didn't even hint it coming. But the end was good in my eyes and the continuation remains fine movies still.
I really liked Snyder man of steel and kinda liked batman v superman, they just needed to trim thst shit down abit. Split into two, make a solid green lantran, flash and wonder woman and then do justice league. Just abit more steps and remaining in the dark watchman tone would have produced spectacular movies that might not made marvel money, but would hold the time and be classic far better.
Marvel can't be a classic their movies are fun Rollercoasters really, dc could have actually made movies but they fucked
The reason why the MCU worked was because it started out as just some cool super hero movies, then building up. Yes, it was planned to work towards a shared universe, but Iron Man etc had to succeed as standalones.
Who?
Marvell has some good movies, but a lot of them really sucked. Iron Man 1 was good, 2 sucked and I don't even remember 3. Thor 1 was good, but 2 and 3 sucked and I never bothered with 4. WW 1 was good for the most part. 2 sucked. Captain america 1 was just OK, but 2 was good. None of the Wokeanda movies were good. Guardians of the Galaxy 1 was good and 2 was mostly forgettable. I never watched any of the TV shows for Marvel and it sounds like I did myself a favor for ignoring them. Avengers 1 and 2 were good for the most part and 3 was crap. I never watched super plank and I know I didn't miss anything. I doubt that Marvell is going to have any more good movies since they are owned by disney and disney has gone full pedo.
@@MAGAMAN Surprised you dislike infinity war the most, could you elaborate on that? That seems to be the one people like the most overall given how it handles thanos's character.
It only worked once, now nobody will watch any more MCU bullshit.
@@MAGAMAN were the wakandans originally white ?
You know I still want Henry Cavill to play the God-Emperor of mankind in a Warhammer 40K movie or series.
Two years from now, I would like to see you make another Production Hell video for the entire Ant-Man trilogy of the Marvel Cinematic Universe. You may get more mileage out of it than you think, from Edgar Wright, one of the first movie's writers being fired from his position as director, to Peyton Reed's bad creative direction in the sequels. He focused more on the Van Dynes than the Langs in Ant-Man and the Wasp, and the problems get worse in the next sequel. He hired a new writer who seemed to be the wrong new writer for the job and ruined Cassie Lang's character, forgot about half of the previous two Ant-Man film's major characters as if it was still Avengers: Endgame, cut down Hope Van Dyne, The Wasp's role for Evangeline Lilly not practicing social distancing, did not know how else to utilize Hank Pym in the story as well as he used Janet Van Dyne or Scott Lang, and recast Emma Fuhrmann because he thought Kathryn Newton, who is 4 years older than her, would be better (than Emma) at hanging with Paul Rudd and not being left in the dust, when replacing Emma with her own more experienced sister, Isabelle Fuhrmann would have been a more preferable option to remain consistent with how Cassie looked before as she grew up from Abby Ryder Fortson to Emma Fuhrmann, and Peyton did not even give Kathryn Newton any good emotional reacting direction to back up his claims that she could do what he had in mind for her to perform. Maybe most of these poor production choices were not only Peyton Reed's, but recasting Cassie Lang was one of his own choices. I just hope Guardians of the Galaxy 3 and Deadpool 3 can find a way to fix the present of the Marvel Cinematic Universe, before it completely falls apart like the DC Cinematic Universe already has, to get Phase 5 back on track before Avengers: Secret Wars.
To make matters worse for Ant-Fans, I think there have always been plenty of difficulties on how to tie in Ant-Man characters with the rest of the Marvel Universe at large. Edgar Wright had his way at first when he got to keep the Lang family and the Van Dyne family out of The Avengers in 2012 and even Age of Ultron in 2015, but then he was fired from directing the Ant-Man trilogy itself when he refused to start further crossover connections with any later Marvel films in the first Ant-Man movie itself, and Peyton Reed was the next best alternative for a director who was open to connecting Ant-Man with later MCU films, by including Peggy Carter and Sam Wilson in Ant-Man (plus Bucky Barnes and Steve Rogers in a post-credits scene with Sam Wilson). Sadly, later Marvel films never knew how to have the Van Dynes play a big part in other storylines, or give them any further character development after Ant-Man and the Wasp and their cameos in Avengers: Endgame. The best material that the MCU has given the Van Dynes after their Wasp sequel from 2018, and the most that was made of them were in their separate What If? episodes: Hank Pym in Episode 3, and Hope Van Dyne in Episode 5. Meanwhile, the only Ant-Man characters to my knowledge who have played a big role as a crossover character in the stories of other characters were Jimmy Woo in WandaVision, and Scott Lang in Captain America: Civil War and Avengers: Endgame. April 21, 2023, 5:54am
I’ll never understand how the people in charge of the DCEU failed to see what was wrong when everyone else saw it plain as day.
Being able to see something is wrong, and knowing what the correct plan of action is, are two completely different things.
"This is really bad" - everybody
"How do we make this good" - crickets.
Execs: How do we make it good?
Everybody: quit trying to stuff everything in a single film, make good standalone films first, then tie it together later.
Execs: too bad nobody has any idea
Everybody: are you not listening?
Execs: we'll just stuff everything in a single film to instantly catch up to marvel
Zack Snyder did a great job. He was boycotted and sabotaged by the WB shills.
#BoycottWBD
#FireJamesGunn
#SellZSJLtoNetflix
#RestoreTheSnyderVerse
because when you're 'woke', you refuse to see any other POV except your own....
@@zeroblade6599 it's wild to me that they didn't think that having a team up very late into the comic book movie market Could be refreshing instead of trying to rush it all and be an analog opposite to the mcu. But no, now we will get ANOTHER team up from marvel by the young avengers meanwhile the dceu is basically a pile of ash
Im glad the era of comic book films is now starting to come to an end and after Top Gun Maverick I hope that is where we are heading next
very few film makers can make stuff like topgun or the mission impossibles
@@FlyingwithFire Maybe not to that quality but films which are just put your feet up and enjoy
@@davidsummer8631 Unlikely....the message is too powerful
@@ricardokojin7 All popular film genres have a life cycle and then they run out of steam and get replaced with another genre
@@davidsummer8631 Yeah...but "the message" doesn't need to be popular. If it was about being popular most of the BS we see today wouldn't exist.
That circling shot from The Avengers is epic some of the most powerful and loved characters in Marvel and a small framed lady with a nine millimeter pistol masterful 😂 lets not forget the genius of Joss Whedon “I tried”
Yooo wtf?????
Man of steal was a Masterpiece man next to the Batman Triology one of the best DC Movies.. and the Score by Hans was phenomenal
One of the biggest problems with Quinn is that they kept trying to make her a cutsie antihero. The Quinn we fell in love with was f’n insane. She’d literally push a guy that annoyed her into her hyena’s and laugh and clap as she watched him get eaten alive. She’d walk into a place with her ass hanging out and while the guys were distracted she’d cave their heads in. When joker died she cut his face off and wore it. To then make this blonde milk toast Barbie girl with colored hair tips falling for dead shot is like making Luke skywalker lose in a stick fight to a nobody. It’s not real. They want to give her a redemption but there is no redemption for her. Her tragedy is that joker broke her brain, made her love him without condition but he didn’t give a shit about her. She’s a mass murderer without consciousness.
DM ME 🎁🎁👆👆....
Dunno about that, I like her in both Injustice and her own series, and in both she gets a redemption arc
The Harley I knew growing up was a psycho right on the cusp of salvation. She was a foil to Batman's longing for love; while he was Batman in part to sort of earn the love of his dead parents, she was a psycho murderer hoping to win the love of the Joker.
Batman saw that. He tried to help when the opportunities arose. She always turned back to her abuser, and it was a powerful thing.
Now she's as you say - manic pixie Barbie.
@@dungeonboss8356 The thing was though, those were better-written arcs.
You have to realize that the overwhelming majority of people who watch these movies have never opened a comic book. Making characters true to their comic book origin doesn't sell movie tickets
You could probably do a Production Hell on the Flash movie as a standalone video, too. Starring real life supervillain Ezra Miller
Yeah, hold my pint, I’m going for the barbecued sausages.
Dᴍ Mᴇ
🎁🎁🎁⬆️⬆️⬆️
Mate fair play this looks awesome!! Hope it goes well and there’s more in the pipeline.. much love as always brother
After 10 year since Man of Steel. Too much hope and desperation for the DCEU. From wanting it tobe epic to want it tobe coherent enough as a cinematic universe. Now i can proudly say they need to kill this things off and start fresh. Matt Reeves’s Batverse look like a nice restart.
I'd love it if they let him get characters like Deathstroke or others from the rogues gallery. Let individuals filmmakers tell their stories unimpeded, like how James Gunn is doing it
Let matt reeves batverse be its own seperate universe, if they try to larp it in their DCU it would be repeating past mistakes in my opinion.
Matt reeve's batverse is being left alone, same for the joker universe. But we might see them in a flashpoint.
That was the worst Batman of all time. You must be a young kid. You could have taken Batman out of that movie and inserted John Wick, and the story wouldn't have been exclusive to the Bat-verse at all.
@@Mrivuyu apparently you missed Batman & Robin
MOS was great! Batfleck was a great casting also.
I personally liked Zack Snyder's style and story telling in regards to DC comic films, at the very least he succeeded in creating a franchise that was drastically different from the Marvel movies directed by the Russo Brothers. The over arching theme of the DC universe being created was one where the world as we saw it today suddenly had to deal with a flying indestructible man who could lift a cruise ship over his head with his pinky and could kill you by staring at you for too long. The montage of news reels in Batman vs Superman painted an ugly picture of just how the media and general populace would react. NOT WELL. Even if said man was just flying around helping people to the best of his abilities. The films also asked loaded questions about what we would do or how we would react, and there are NO right answers to any of them. What's the answer to an alien that looks like us who is essentially a god flying around unchecked? What do we do about an immortal demigoddess whose very existence not only proves that the pantheon once existed but are all now dead? The man who defies physical reality by being able to run so fast he warps time and space? What really hampered the franchise yes was studio incompetence, greed, impatience and insecurity from WB that wanted to make money from the stories it told but sabotaged itself every time they barged in thinking they could do better.
Exactly 💯
Cannot be agree more. You speak my mind, sir. Zack make DCEU ask similar questions to Watchmen and that's why I love it. If only, WB leave Zack alone...
They really should’ve stuck with Snyder’s vision, sure it wasn’t always perfect, but perhaps if they let Snyder do his thing without interference things would’ve been much better
@@SaifSKH Everything the studio did was reactionary. When Deadpool came out, they butchered Suicide Squad to have the same campy, non-serious tone, despite that being the opposite to Ayer's original designs. After Thor Ragnar, Justice League was put through the blender and ripped in half, throwing the half they thought the most profitable against the wall in the hopes of it making money. They are trying to outpace each other in a race without a finish line here. What's more embarrassing is phase four has been Disney's weakest entry, THIS was WB's opportunity to outshine and take the lime light. So what do they do? Set the whole project on fire to start over...
it amazes me how people just dont get this and you've wrapped it up well. Wtf would I want to watch MCU 2.0 when I can have something different. I get its not everyones cup of tea but thats why you have the MCU option to choose from if its not your thing...
Never stop doing these
I love how you completely sidestepped any mention of the flash, even in the thumbnail because that whole thing with him was a complete firestorm and who knows if we'll ever see it come out or if it'll be thrown into a vault and locked away forever
Frankly, the entire timeline of what has already happened is dense and interesting enough to talk about without mentioning the disasters known as Ezra and Amber Heard. Particularly when the films haven't released yet.
they should lock up ezra miller and throw away the key forever
@@TheSuperappelflap
Lock him up in the showers.
@@TheSuperappelflap Based.
It’s releasing this year
The “Production hell” series was the first CD video I ever watched. So glad you’re keeping the saga going my man
I also enjoy "The Drinker Fixes..." and challenge him to try that out on the DC movies. He mostly used on properties Disney owns now (Marvel and Star Wars characters).
Excellent video - thanks drinker👏
hearing that batman beyond got cancelled is kinda sadge. Would love to see that version of batman in live-action, though prob for the better considering how badly the DC films have been managed. Hopefully they still do it in the future under Gunn
Ill admit the background editing makes the Dceu look badass and awesome, just goes to show the potential they had with these characterrs,,,
It WAS badass and awesome. Man Of Steel was amazing. BvS was an 8 out of 10 imo
And ZSJL is easily the best of the 3.
@Ryan Mickens Good films with no proper setup. It's impossible to pinpoint how much was ZS fault in this with DC executives fucking things up every other film. I absolutely loved his creative vision and artistic style.
I guess we'll see how much "creative agency" they allow James Gunn. Especially when his first Supes film underperforms and rather than holding through it to build a rapport with the target audience that they abused, theyll start this panicking shit all over again and ruin it all.