Ian, if not for you I would probably never have taken interest in the historical rifles of my home country. Thanks for your persistently great presentations over all these years. Vive l'amitié 🇫🇷🇺🇲
Je suis totalement d'accord, il doit bien y avoir un honneur civil ou une médaille adéquate pour Ian qui a tant fait pour faire connaître cette industrie nationale au monde. Les arts et Lettres ou même la légion d'honneur (il y en a qui l'ont eu pour bien moins). Il faudrait en parler ou faire circuler une pétition !
An important factor in adopting a full power rifle cartridge in 1949 was that France still had its North African territories and as the US military found out in Iraq and Afghanistan, range is important in such terrain. So much so that the M14 returned from the dead as the Designated Marksman's Rifle in each infantry squad.
This carbine/SMG combo is pretty neat. The ammo issue would have needed sorting out, but otherwise this makes sense from an engineering, production, and soldier perspective. Therefore, it’s only natural that the French wouldn’t adopt it.
I also love how much unnecessary mechanical complication is added in for no good reason. Lots of good ways for dirt and debris to get in the action! It's kind of like the development of aircraft between the World Wars, where you get some truly whacky ideas given development money.
@@user-ff5fs4jk2x Which M2? I freely admit the original M2 Browning .50 caliber machine gun was a finicky beast. I had to watch a training film about headspace and timing and how a mistake there could kill the user. Though I read or heard that the problem had been largely remediated. The M2 Bradley is a great vehicle, if you don't try to employ it as if it were a tank. The M2 artillery compass is a fine device, though for orienteering I prefer the lensatic compass. The M2 is also a highway in South Africa, a highway in Australia, a highway in Russia (a.k.a. the Crimea Highway)... - Sorry, I have free time and a search engine. Not trying to be a jerk to you.
What a missed opportunity for France! Hindsight being 20-20, the 3-cartridge 'problem' ended up being what most nations accepted anyway, and it looks like it wouldn't have been too difficult to adapt the basic design to 5.56 and a bullpup configuration a la FAMAS. It's hard to argue with free weapons though, and France at the time was still pretty strongly committed to NATO, but still.....quelle dommage!
Yes, I know it's complicated, but I'm not criticizing you! I live with 2 Italian girls, and when they talk about someone, I never know if they're talking about a boy or a girl!
This is such a cool system. It makes for a strong, relatively light, thin compact profile. The commonality between the rifle and submachine gun allows for easy training and possibly some parts interchangability. 9mm & 30 carbine is still OK but today we may use something like 5.56 & 9mm or 300 Blackout & 9mm or 7.62X39mm & 9mm as the 2 calibers
@@Mike_Rogge The FAMAS is unobtainium pretty much everywhere, I've never seen them for sale in the Netherlands nor Germany. I did see them being advertised for sale in some French gun magazines, which makes sense considering that's its birthplace. And if I remember correctly in the video where Ian tests a FAMAS on the range he mentions them being available for sale in Canada as well, perhaps that video even being shot in Canada.
Watching this video I can just imagine bean counters salivating over the concept of interchangeable parts between their submachine gun and their battle rifles.
A rather underpowered one with highly questionable features, but an assault rifle nonetheless. If thats your basis for an assault rifle though, then the US had an assault rifle in the 1940s with the M2 carbine.
The old tale of unstoppable force vs unmovable object truely never met a more adequate application than the genius of the french small arm designs vs the abysmal incompetence of the french army bureaucracy.
I think this development lends credence to the fact the .30 carbine is not a pistol cartridge, and the M2 Carbine was a proto-assault rifle of sorts. A 110gr bullet at 2,000fps is A LOT more powerful and has a lot more range than a 115gr bullet at 1,300fps. This MAS49 carbine further evolves that into a form factor that is familiar for the assault rifle.
Hi Ian, thanks for this vid! Have you thought of aquiring an endoscopic camera for getting into those really hard to see places? Would it even be worth the effort? Keep up the great work! Greetings from Germany!
Nice compact design, would be very iconic if adopted. But there's not much isolation from the heat so the only thing the front hand can hold is the magazine.
I feel like *disconnecting the magazine* by folding it out of the way is a perfectly acceptable way of rendering a gun safe like this, especially when comboed with a grip safety. Is it the most expedient way? No, probably not, but it would certainly work.
...I recently bought 400 rounds of French surplus 30 carbine from a fellow collector in our club, Palm Beach Arms Collectors, at the time I assumed it was for the M1 Carbine, but had never heard of the French army being given these weapons post war...this solves that mystery and also the question of whether or not the ammo is corrosive...if you want I can provide photos of the boxes...
Other Gun Channels : "Here today on the range in my back yard..." Forgotten Weapons : " Here today in the gun room of the Institut de Recherche Criminelle de la Gendarmerie Nationale, Paris. Class.
Im patiently waiting for .30 carbine to be reborn. Someone needs to make an affordable m1 carbine, and cmmg needs to make a banshee upper and mag adapter.
I like how "The French [...] had seen substantial demonstration of the Sturmgewehr" is a real headscratcher for some people :'D An outstanding move, Mr. McCollum.
Very similar to both the FNAB and OG-44 submachine guns, which strangely enough are both Italian designs from _that_ era. Awesome gun though, would love to see the inner workings of that fire control group, really a genius gun all around, how the mag well folds in such a way as to protect the gun from dirt... it's actually kind of fascinating.
Between the SMG and StG sharing the same basic operating system and controls, and the appearance of the fore-end and butt stock, you cannot convince me that they weren't working with CETME and what would eventually become HK.
The German engineers that developed what became the G3 did spend some time in France after the war, before heading to Spain and CETME, so it's possible they had some influence...
My thoughts on the sticky barrel removal, I envision a wiggle of that lever (it may be binding), as well as a few taps on the barrel to encourage it out, but of course, rare prototypes.
You could have ended that sentence after the "odd)" part! Tanks, cars, fashion, cheese and the list could go on. And I am glad for it! They've come up with some fascinating designs over the years.
@@Sven_Dongle «These Frenchmen, under the gallant leadership of general Molinié, had for four critical days contained no less than seven German divisions which otherwise could have joined in the assaults on the Dunkirk perimeter. This was a splendid contribution to the escape of their more fortunate comrades of the British Expeditionnary Force » - Winston Churchill, The Second World War. vol. II. Their Finest Hour.
I would honestly love to see ian take a look at the dsr-1 its an important precision rifle to me because of black ops 2 and would love to see it in full
I honestly wonder if this was still fresh in the minds of the designers when the switch to 5.56 was announced, short intermediate calibre lever delayed select fire carbine basically describes the Famas as well as this.
Ok, im converted to Ian's cult of the French rifle!!! Too cool! It even looks like French industrial aesthetic like "triplets of Belville", delicatessen or "The City of Lost Children" or a old citroen van!
The French sure did seem to love the idea of a folding magazine well.
Don't forget the grip safety too lol.
@@John-mf6ky Yes... easier to overlook that one though
yeah, it is a nifty idea however.
And they folded pretty quick after D-Day as well.
@@Film21Productions What the hell is that even supposed to mean?
John Wick: "Guns. Lots of guns."
Juan Wick: "Mas carbines."
Jean...
@@Deathunter761 Mêche...
.30 Carbine firearms development after the war has always fascinated me. It's a historical dead end but it's so full of cool and weird ideas.
At the end, M2 carbine was the best of the bunch anyways.
Ian, if not for you I would probably never have taken interest in the historical rifles of my home country. Thanks for your persistently great presentations over all these years. Vive l'amitié 🇫🇷🇺🇲
Same thing for me, wouldn't have been interested and learned so much about all our old wacky rifles and various firearms if not for this channel
@@bconneau658 That would be excellent for Ian to be nominated for the Ordre des Arts et des Lettres.
@@bconneau658 Arts et Lettres pour Ian serait absolument justifié et y'en a qui ont eu la Légion d'honneur pour bien moins également...
Complètement d’accord !
Je suis totalement d'accord, il doit bien y avoir un honneur civil ou une médaille adéquate pour Ian qui a tant fait pour faire connaître cette industrie nationale au monde. Les arts et Lettres ou même la légion d'honneur (il y en a qui l'ont eu pour bien moins). Il faudrait en parler ou faire circuler une pétition !
An important factor in adopting a full power rifle cartridge in 1949 was that France still had its North African territories and as the US military found out in Iraq and Afghanistan, range is important in such terrain. So much so that the M14 returned from the dead as the Designated Marksman's Rifle in each infantry squad.
There has to be some irony there. I mean in that powers with an empire had to use older gun technology to try and subdue the natives.
The colonies always got the newer stuff way after mainland anyway.
They really can't resist putting folding magazines on everything.
*Magazine wells. Also grip safeties.
Ça prend moins de place. ^^
@@Hosenfuhrer I will now develop a folding magazine just to spite your correction.
Fr as if there target audience are partizan
@@jordanandrew2786 Thats a very French attitude!
That looks like something a video game designer would come up with to avoid paying licensing fees for an MP5.
This carbine/SMG combo is pretty neat. The ammo issue would have needed sorting out, but otherwise this makes sense from an engineering, production, and soldier perspective. Therefore, it’s only natural that the French wouldn’t adopt it.
I also love how much unnecessary mechanical complication is added in for no good reason. Lots of good ways for dirt and debris to get in the action!
It's kind of like the development of aircraft between the World Wars, where you get some truly whacky ideas given development money.
@@MonkeyJedi99гораздо проще и надёжнее М2.
@@user-ff5fs4jk2x Which M2?
I freely admit the original M2 Browning .50 caliber machine gun was a finicky beast.
I had to watch a training film about headspace and timing and how a mistake there could kill the user. Though I read or heard that the problem had been largely remediated.
The M2 Bradley is a great vehicle, if you don't try to employ it as if it were a tank.
The M2 artillery compass is a fine device, though for orienteering I prefer the lensatic compass.
The M2 is also a highway in South Africa, a highway in Australia, a highway in Russia (a.k.a. the Crimea Highway)...
-
Sorry, I have free time and a search engine. Not trying to be a jerk to you.
@@MonkeyJedi99 the US army challenge to not create any original names over the span of a century (astounding success )
@@AlbinospenguinTriumph of the Bureaucracy!
Thanks for being a drama free, highly informative gun guy Ian. Keep up the awesome content
Mostly drama-free, anyways. The Internet isn't that kind to anyone.
@@Tunkkisbut ian makes an effort to be drama free regardless
What a missed opportunity for France! Hindsight being 20-20, the 3-cartridge 'problem' ended up being what most nations accepted anyway, and it looks like it wouldn't have been too difficult to adapt the basic design to 5.56 and a bullpup configuration a la FAMAS. It's hard to argue with free weapons though, and France at the time was still pretty strongly committed to NATO, but still.....quelle dommage!
"Quel dommage" ;)
@@Bobby_Snoof Got me, I can speak & read it fine, but gender & conjugations always trip me up writing!
Quel…
Yes, I know it's complicated, but I'm not criticizing you! I live with 2 Italian girls, and when they talk about someone, I never know if they're talking about a boy or a girl!
@@Bobby_Snoof don't worry you good
I'm always going to watch Ian talk about cool, strange prototypes. Great video!
Le MAS-48 était sincèrement, et en toute subjectivité, un pistolet mitrailleur magnifique
I love the red rider machine carbine look.
This is such a cool system. It makes for a strong, relatively light, thin compact profile. The commonality between the rifle and submachine gun allows for easy training and possibly some parts interchangability. 9mm & 30 carbine is still OK but today we may use something like 5.56 & 9mm or 300 Blackout & 9mm or 7.62X39mm & 9mm as the 2 calibers
If you think the MA49 is confusing, just wait until you hear about the US M1.
Which one? The M1 Combat Car, M1 Carbine, M1 Garand, M1 Half-Track, M1 Abrams, M1 Armored Car, M1 field artillery, M1 Anti-Aircraft Gun,M1 howitzer, M1 Dual-Purpose Gun,M1 Gernade, M1 flamethrower, M1 Bazooka, M1 Mortar, M1 Thompson, M1 Underwater Defense Gun or the M1 Chemical Mine?
@@turtleman_destro504 exactly.
This is pretty interesting, honestly. I like how simple it is. I'd love to see a modern reproduction of this system
Lever-delay could make inroads into the civilian market.
the FAMAS works in a near-identical way, albeit bullpup and nearly unobtanium in the U.S.
@@Mike_RoggeBut there is the Croatian cousin, the VHS as the S&W Helion….
@@evanmorris1178they’re short stroke rotating bolt though, not great if you’re a big fan of delayed blowback
@@Mike_Rogge The FAMAS is unobtainium pretty much everywhere, I've never seen them for sale in the Netherlands nor Germany. I did see them being advertised for sale in some French gun magazines, which makes sense considering that's its birthplace. And if I remember correctly in the video where Ian tests a FAMAS on the range he mentions them being available for sale in Canada as well, perhaps that video even being shot in Canada.
That's the coolest thing I've seen in a long time
Rifles scaled to 30 carbine are just cool. Imagine if there was a AR15 scaled to 30 carbine. Now that would be cool.
It would be basically identical.
I really hope you got a photo of that cartridge and projectile board in the background, I'd love to see it
The presence ( or more often the lack of) grip safety is something I've always wondered about in automatic/battle rifles.
I think they were more common on pistols to prevent accidental discharges while holstering.
I think some SMGs used them as a drop safety
Usually it’s just an unnecessary feature that adds cost and complexity, that’s why no one uses it.
French military: give us a weapon with a folding magazine
Mas: just one weapon right?
French military: ...
Mas: *Just one weapon right!*
Watching this video I can just imagine bean counters salivating over the concept of interchangeable parts between their submachine gun and their battle rifles.
😂 Thanks for the laugh and the accuracy of your remark 😁
Man that MAS 48 Sub gun is beautiful!! They definitely lose some style points on the later models 😂
MAT*
I can just feel the giddiness in Ian when he realized he's going to get hands on a prototype French gun
Sacre bleu fricking early gang
I've never been this early before, wow.
Les plus tôt 🇬🇧👍🇫🇷
Merde
2 hours late
Damn why didn't y'all wake me up
The MP5's long lost French cousin lol
probably hung out inside a wine barrel to mature before Ian found it
@@stevejohnson6593yep still a bit ripe but with a few years more, it would be great 😂
The French had an assault rifle in 1949. Wow.
A rather underpowered one with highly questionable features, but an assault rifle nonetheless.
If thats your basis for an assault rifle though, then the US had an assault rifle in the 1940s with the M2 carbine.
M43 entered the chat
I wouldn't consider .30 carbine to be an intermediate cartridge so this can't be an assault rifle.
@@redcat9436 thankfully it doesn't matter what you consider
@@KarsenKeith on a holistic level, it doesn't matter what anyone thinks
There are some really neat ideas in that gun and I’d love to have one Thanks for another great video on something I’d never seen
Awesome! Always enjoy watching experimental .30 Carbine rifles. Now if we can only locate that rare .30 M1 Smith & Wesson prototype.
Nice piece. Very interesting. Thanks, as always, for a great presentation !
the wooden stock, lifted from Daisy,
The old tale of unstoppable force vs unmovable object truely never met a more adequate application than the genius of the french small arm designs vs the abysmal incompetence of the french army bureaucracy.
Another great video, keep up the good work
I'm French and this is the first time I've seen this model. Thank you for this discovery
Et oui, tout le monde n à pas accès au musée de la gendarmerie 😂Thanks Ian for showing us all these prototypes
@@khaelamensha3624 😅👍
@@f4nt4x95 Space invaders.. Toute ma jeunesse 😍
Always great to see FW video about an unusual gun 👍👍
Love how no matter what firearm you’re tinkering with, they all have that distinct “snap” when you start pushing buttons
Nice bit of history. Thank you to Ian et al and the Gendarmerie Museum.
Looks nice
Coolest gun I've seen in a Long time!!
Definitely enjoyable. Very practical weapons.
Mon dieu, another interesting French firearm, merci monsieur Ian.
I think this development lends credence to the fact the .30 carbine is not a pistol cartridge, and the M2 Carbine was a proto-assault rifle of sorts. A 110gr bullet at 2,000fps is A LOT more powerful and has a lot more range than a 115gr bullet at 1,300fps. This MAS49 carbine further evolves that into a form factor that is familiar for the assault rifle.
Upon seeing these firearms, truly one of those 'That ought to be interesting to learn about' videos!
Génial !
Very interesting. Thanks!
Interesting, another great video
A true Fiorgotten Weapon! Awesome! Thanks!
Nice video again my friend 🇨🇾👍🏻
its very neat to see them scaled up to a rifle since i really liked the smg model
Hi Ian, thanks for this vid! Have you thought of aquiring an endoscopic camera for getting into those really hard to see places? Would it even be worth the effort? Keep up the great work!
Greetings from Germany!
Nice compact design, would be very iconic if adopted. But there's not much isolation from the heat so the only thing the front hand can hold is the magazine.
A front handguard is definitely needed...
1949 was an interesting year for French gun development.
The country was starting to really recover from ww2 (food card stopped in 1949) and Indochina war was in full scale mode or close to it,.
Oh god this is so cool
I feel like *disconnecting the magazine* by folding it out of the way is a perfectly acceptable way of rendering a gun safe like this, especially when comboed with a grip safety.
Is it the most expedient way? No, probably not, but it would certainly work.
...I recently bought 400 rounds of French surplus 30 carbine from a fellow collector in our club, Palm Beach Arms Collectors, at the time I assumed it was for the M1 Carbine, but had never heard of the French army being given these weapons post war...this solves that mystery and also the question of whether or not the ammo is corrosive...if you want I can provide photos of the boxes...
It probably was for the M1, the gendarmes used to use them (eventually replacing them with mini-14s).
The French, especially the Gendarmerie, made extensive use of M1 Carbines until the 1980s.
.Thank you, my friend..is the ammo corrosive - as I suspect???@@JohnHughesChampigny
@@mohammedcohen -- that I wouldn't know. I just saw them hanging out in the streets with the carbines, never asked them about the ammo :)
Other Gun Channels : "Here today on the range in my back yard..." Forgotten Weapons : " Here today in the gun room of the Institut de Recherche Criminelle de la Gendarmerie Nationale, Paris. Class.
Great Stuff Ian 💯💥💥💥💥💥💥💥
Good sound. I'd love to see a folding mag(well) on something new.
Impressive!
That barrel must have gotten quite hot, so one could not put your hand forward to hold the rifle up to aim.
It definitely looks like its missing a handguard but it doesnt look like theres anywhere that it would attach
@@CreEpeRneSs125It looks like you'd have to grip it by the magazine. 🤨
That looks like a really decent idea. What a shame it never got adopted!
Im patiently waiting for .30 carbine to be reborn. Someone needs to make an affordable m1 carbine, and cmmg needs to make a banshee upper and mag adapter.
Merci.
I can't get that Red Ryder BB gun stock out of my head. 😅
You bet i did (enjoy it), sir. Thanks for the video!
I like how "The French [...] had seen substantial demonstration of the Sturmgewehr" is a real headscratcher for some people :'D
An outstanding move, Mr. McCollum.
note the dual feed ramp on the barrel!
lever delayed and folding mags? what else to make it even more french?
Nice.
Very similar to both the FNAB and OG-44 submachine guns, which strangely enough are both Italian designs from _that_ era. Awesome gun though, would love to see the inner workings of that fire control group, really a genius gun all around, how the mag well folds in such a way as to protect the gun from dirt... it's actually kind of fascinating.
Between the SMG and StG sharing the same basic operating system and controls, and the appearance of the fore-end and butt stock, you cannot convince me that they weren't working with CETME and what would eventually become HK.
The German engineers that developed what became the G3 did spend some time in France after the war, before heading to Spain and CETME, so it's possible they had some influence...
When it comes to guns, and why they are so fascinating, there is nobody as cool as you!
So is it possible to swap the fire control group from the Assault Rifle to the Sub machine gun vise versa?
No masses are different to accommodate the two types of cartridges
It looks almost exactly like my Daisy Red Ryder BB gun I had when I was a kid! LOL.
honestly it is kinda crazy that the Gendarmerie allows you in there, that really doesnt strike me as a Gendarmerie kinda thing to do.
My thoughts on the sticky barrel removal, I envision a wiggle of that lever (it may be binding), as well as a few taps on the barrel to encourage it out, but of course, rare prototypes.
The french are rather famous for being quite creative (and odd) on how they make their firearms look and work
You could have ended that sentence after the "odd)" part!
Tanks, cars, fashion, cheese and the list could go on. And I am glad for it! They've come up with some fascinating designs over the years.
You should check out their cars too if you like odd and quirky stuff 😂
@@himaro101 As the saying goes, "The French copies no one, and no one copies the French".
@@Sven_DonglePlease shut up, you're not funny
@@Sven_Dongle «These Frenchmen, under the gallant leadership of general Molinié, had for four critical days contained no less than seven German divisions which otherwise could have joined in the assaults on the Dunkirk perimeter. This was a splendid contribution to the escape of their more fortunate comrades of the British Expeditionnary Force »
- Winston Churchill, The Second World War. vol. II. Their Finest Hour.
We gotta start a go fund me for Ian to get a wire probe camera to see the internals for firearms like this where it’s hard to get good angles.
Honestly these seem like nice light handy rifles.
Is it me, or does this look of the wood stock carbine seem like someone from the daisy red ryder factory had a hand in the design?
The love child of General Thompson’s submachine gun and it’s Teutonic war bride.
How can you not like it with that red ryder stock
Ooohh, fun!
France really likes 7.62 cal.
That carbine and especially the sub-machinegun look like the bastard children of a Cetme and a Red Ryder. Lol
It's the skinny MP5!
I really wish more weapons were made in .30 Carbine. It's just a nice little cartridge.
You are encyclopedia firearmica ❤
I would honestly love to see ian take a look at the dsr-1 its an important precision rifle to me because of black ops 2 and would love to see it in full
Folding mags are too cool, they need to be brought back
Small Arms Review had a picture of a .50 cal prototype machine gun. I'd like to see that.
I honestly wonder if this was still fresh in the minds of the designers when the switch to 5.56 was announced, short intermediate calibre lever delayed select fire carbine basically describes the Famas as well as this.
Ok, im converted to Ian's cult of the French rifle!!! Too cool! It even looks like French industrial aesthetic like "triplets of Belville", delicatessen or "The City of Lost Children" or a old citroen van!
Didnt really cover the cocking-handle, but it looks like an external sliding flat plate pushing on the bolt???
I think someone needs to CAD this gun, and make civilian semi auto versions, a .30carbine folder would be a great backpack camp gun!
I think those bags might be 30 and 40 based on how long they are.
the FAMAS we had at home but didn't use for decades
They put it in the wine cellar to mature and forgot about it...
how do you pull back the bolt I don't see any handles
thats a nice kagatyabeen metyaia
nice :)
Sounds like they have a managerial vacuum caused by taking off before they have all the safety equipment bolted down.