Building a Rally Bike from Scratch... Is it any good? | How to Rally EP 1
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- čas přidán 6. 11. 2022
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🏍 - Llel Pavey
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🎬 - Joe Brashaw & Llel Pavey
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So you wanna go rally racing? Has your mind melted yet? Mine did, many times over....
The goal of this video was too outline exactly what goes into building a small rally bike to compete in events like Olympia Rally, Hellas Rally, Greece Rally and the many other short rallies.
As you can see from this build, a huge chunk of the parts we used aren't necessary but will make the entire bike nicer. - Auta a dopravní prostředky
It's nice to hear that you came to race at my Country, Greece , hope seeing you here again! Love from Greece , and good luck at rallying ❤️🇬🇷🏍
Fantastic idea for a series. Can't wait to see the whole journey unfold.
Thanks so much!
Great idea for a series ! really looking forward to it. I finished my first rally this year, Rally Albania, on my 950 build. Absolutely stunning place to ride. Lots of lessons learnt - mainly that if you see a photographer, it's either about to go really good or really bad haha.
Thanks! How did you find Albania? That it a fantastic piece of life advice. 😂 I take it you had a crash in front of one? 😅
Either way, it makes for a good photo ;) I'll take that advice on to Olympia next year mate!
Last time I spotted one he was next to a 1 meter step drop just after a high speed section 😂
Was really looking forward to this series, and amazing start! Love the details and the tips ‘n tricks!
Glad you enjoyed it!
Why aren't motorcycle rally races a thing in the States?!?!
Great vid Llel, and a really good intro to Rallye and the message that it can be an amazing experience for everyone.
Glad you enjoyed it
Great video ! I 'm from Greece and just before few months i bought an KTM690 enduro R to make it a rally bike! Olimpia Rally is at my mind of being the first to try me and my bike! I am still at the prosess of built my moto! Love for content !
Sounds great! You'll love it!
*_Very Cool. I can't wait for the whole series. This is going to be excellent._*
Cheers! I hope you enjoy it 🙂
well done, super interesting series I'm tuned in
Thanks!
Brilliant, looking forward to seeing how the bike build goes!
Excited to show you!
Sick build ....looking forward to the next sesh...
Cheers! I think they're pretty good :D
Looking forward to see more of this series!!!
Thanks!
Great vid. I think the more info like this that's around, the better. I'm heading to Olympia Rally next and trying to get as much info as possible for my 990 build. Having done smaller, 2 day rallies I feel slightly prepped, but there's no better way than to watch a walk-through. It's the added extras, like what you drank throughout the day, what food you took, general logistics etc, that I think make the 'journey' that much easier. Thanks a lot!
Glad it was helpful!
I did my very first rally this year and one of the videos that inspired me to do it was this one. That rally had a tourist class, what didn't have the hard enduro parts in it that the regular rally had. It was a rally with digital roadbook so i could use my phone for it. The weather was horrible but the ride was super awesome. I really need to get a enduro bike if I want to get better at it and ride in the real rallies as doing it with my XTZ750 is quite hard :D
What an awesome idea Llewelyn, looking forward to your next instalment. 👊🏻✊🏻👊🏻✊🏻👍🏻
More to come!
I traded in my HP2 Enduro for a stock standard Honda XR650L. The HP2 was great for 3rd gear wheelies and going freaking (expletive) fast on any terrain. Too much bike though for the terrain I was riding at the time. So between the HP2 and my at the time new DRZ400E I made a decision to go all in on the red Soichiro 650L machine - same as the 1993 version. The ride back home from the dealers floor confirmed shortcomings in the design. Ergos needed to change so Rox 50mm pivot raisers and KTM wide tapered MX bars called for. The bars came off a R80GS PD replica no name special. I don't recall much of that equation but the KTM bars still feel perfect in my hands today. So long story short - sorted ergos - dialled in suspension (XR650L has fully adjustable suspension up to the price point for 1993) and a few other factors were addressed. Long range tank - proper pegs - total weight redux. So anyways - I have my XR650L that works sweet for me. Awsome vid Lel - I just feel scared when i look at all the wires and connections you have to deal with.
Absolutely sick Llel! I'm stuck into this series already!
Thanks! I hope it lives up to it!
Great production there Llel! Got a good Motology vibe! Nice one. LJ.
That's a compliment!
Living on the east coast of the USA makes rally racing extremely difficult for me. The two rally’s I planned on attempting in 2023 are both currently stalled in organizing. The others that are confirmed are 800+ miles worth of travel to get to.
We have the same problem. Olympia was a LONG way for us. :)
So looking forward to this, getting Hellas/dinaric fomo big time
Yes! Dynamic looks amazing!
Good job mate
this is a great concept. I am looking to do my first rally this year and it can be quite daunting regarding where to start and what is needed!
Best of luck!
That looks awesome! Subscribed
Welcome to than channel!
Looking forward to part 2!
Thanks!
Oooooh exciting!! 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻🤙🏻
Hope to see you this years edition!
Great video mate, did my first rally this year and this is a good overview of the prep headaches 😩
The next one is gonna make you laugh a lot then 😂 Which one did you ride?
@@BrakeMagazine look forward to it... I did illyria raid, but on GPS rather than roadbook.
@@MattVenturesMoto Awesome! My friend Roger rode too. Did you enjoy it?
Would like to hear already about EP2!
Looking good so far!
On Patreon tonight :)
Great stuff, thanks!
Glad you liked it!
Nice build! I may have missed it but how do you best address front brake cable routing with a nav tower/handlebar ?
Cool video and interesting to see an insight into competing in an international rally, is this one competitive as I know some are not like the Illyria. The bike looks pretty sweet and I hope the suspension is a great improvement and feels worth the expense for doing rallies over the reworked stock WP. Look forward to the next installment 🤘🏻
Hey Pete, it is competitive yes. I might even win something 😉
Awesome video :)😀
Glad you enjoyed it
Pretty cool :) Looking forward to seeing you ride it :) We don't have this kind of thing in NZ. We do have Adventure bike Rallye's, but they are just social rides and not competitions. I did one recently - very fun.
I know the type. We don't really have rally races here in the UK either, hence the trip to Greece. :)
@@BrakeMagazine I thought about getting into Enduro, but it doesn't seem like there are any beginner classes/categories here in NZ and it is another expensive hobby to get into.
i run mid hard 360 on my 510, f'in great tyres - look 4ward to the next episodes 🙂
Agreed. Good tyres for sure.
Great to see this video, like that you choose 350 bike.
I did my first rally ever this year, finished Hellas rally, rented KTM 350 EXC and I loved it. Great size for that rally.
Very nice! It is a great size!
@@BrakeMagazine Would it though be suitable just for a handful of rallies or do you think it’s versatile enough for significant fraction of them?
@@miro_s I would say I'd happily use it for any race bar the North African ones. In the big open desert. Anything on Mainland Europe it's great for. :)
Llel, this is SO good!
Thanks Johannes!
I grew up 20 klm from Olympia;)
Keep up
Very nice!
Like this 👌
Thanks for the detailed breakdown of the rally! What was your average speed?
Love the video! One thing I find really hard is how to find out about all the rally’s in europe? Is there one big calendar or?
No, you have to spend time on Google sorry. Maybe someone else can help with this.
I love this llev! a 350 EXCF rally!
Cheers!
@@BrakeMagazine interested by your choice of the WP steering dumper, would you care to share more of your views on it? How much less of the scott’s, given that it’s half the price, and would you also mount it on an heavier bike, say your T7?
@@miro_s This is a great question. I'm not sure if it can be mounted on other bikes, we'd have to check with KTM.
Also, I have only used a Scott's damper during Dakar in 2015 and never before or since. I used an Ohnlins one (not the Scotts rebranded) and then this one.
In my experience with this one, it worked incredibly. I had two moments where it 100% saved my ass. I felt it slow down the rear end snapping out and the bike returned to centre.
One time I over accelerated on some wet clay going quickly and I felt it bring the bike back slowly and controlled. I thought for sure I was gonna high side.
The second, I bought a rock with the rear wheel and the damper saved the day. You can feel it solve these problems.
In that instance, I am a fan and would happily use it forever more. I don't know if it's better than a Scotts damper, but I know it did a great job. To me it looks like an older generation GPR damper and they know what they're doing. Maybe someone else can confirm this.
@@BrakeMagazine thank you very much for your insights! I've been sitting on the fence re a steering damper for a while, mainly because scott's is a lot of money for something i am not entirely sure i need. But the WP is more affordable, and your experience with it speak loudly.
Your first viewer for this video here. Loving your content. Great work guys!
How did you find it? It's unlisted 🤣🤣
@@BrakeMagazine I looked hard through your channel, mate. It's pretty awesome!
@@lolhell9943 Thanks!
This video makes it look so accessible, despite the confused look on your face! 😁
😂 That might change in Episode Two 😅
I really miss your dakar podcasts! Bring them back please!
Sorry man,
Had some personal stuff going on 😅 We back in the game though and loving Dakar!
I have an idea for mini tip Monday. Suspension clicker settings for dummies for adventure bikes
I don't know the answer sorry 🤣🤣🤣 Good idea!
@@BrakeMagazine sounds like it’s time for a guest from Ktech 🤣🤣 I suck at it. I’m revalving right now and hope it fixes the harshness in the forks over embedded rocks
@@bjwilliams6115 On what bike? That's why the subject is tricky. Every bike is so different stock that it's near impossible.
@@BrakeMagazine on my tenere 700
The bike is sweet great build
Thanks 👍
Hey Llel, Did the 12L tank cover the 140km distance? Do you regret not going for the 15L?
Have a 350 I’m going to build out for Hellas next year, will need 140km distance so would love to go with the 12L if I can get away with it.
🔥🔥🔥
when's the next ep out? really good!
On Patreon tonight. Public soon.
Hope all goes well in Greece.
Cheers John! It did eventually!
Got another one of these episodes coming?
New genre enduro rally XD
Great content as always. It’s a shame there isn’t really a great deal of this type of event in the UK. RallyMoto is obviously a good starting point but if you want to step it up it starts to get expensive just for traveling to the European events. I really need to retire, working takes up far too much time 😫😫
Indeed. They do a good job in Italy apparently by running really short, technical special stages, but a lot of them over the day. That could work well in the UK. We just need someone to do it 😂
@@BrakeMagazine problem we have here is the same as car rallying, needs to be on private property and on this little island of luvvies, nobody wants noisy bikes around 😢
@@TrippyandDa I don't think it does, but the land does need permission. For example, the Welsh 2 Day Enduro runs around the whole of mid-wales on a mix of legal rights, Forestry and private. But it's also a total mission to organise.
I'm curious, on your Adventure build, you went with the Acerbic tank. Any major reason you switched it up here?
Just to try something different really. 🙂
Anyone have a resource for rallies held in the USA? Very interested in trying one.
Great question. I don't know personally but I'll pin the comment :)
It is possible to run event like rally olympia with bike without number plate? I have Gilera XR1 from 89 and would love to do something like this. Let the old girl singing :)
Mmm, I think that depends on the Greek road rules.
Already know about this in Colombia-But I'm old and doing chemo-but lets see
The proper weight fork springs for the Beta just arrived too
Get well soon. I didn't realise 😟
@@BrakeMagazine the good thing is you encourage me that there's stuff to look forward too-like hurting myself on the bike🤣
@@100CupsColombia That's exactly what I'm here for 😂
i want a dirtbike, want to ride on teh road, Not hard riding off road , Should I get a KOVE ralley.. ??????
Probably not but I haven't ridden it. They do look cool though!
Would you think a two stroke KTM 300 might be a good choice?
Not the best but it depends. If you just wanna have fun you’ll have a great time. Just put a big enough tank on it.
What is the most typical Rally bike? Like a 450 or 500 KTM?
450.
5’6” and 29” inside leg, what changes to the bike would you suggest?
Great question. Do you mind telling me your weight?
Typically I would suggest making the sear a tiny bit lower, using a low handlebar and possibly moving them slightly closer in the clamps.
Depending on your skills level having the suspension lowered properly can also bring a nice confidence booster.
The key is always trying to keep things proportional, so if you have a lower seat, effectively the bars are higher. Rhat affects riding position, makes cornering harder and so we need to lower them and bring the closer to fit you better.
I typically do the opposite to space the bike out. Taller seat, bars further away 🙂
Hope that helps!
@@BrakeMagazine
I am unfortunately overweight for my height at 105KG
I ride a triumph tiger rally pro ( I know, i could have gone for the lower GT) although I had a low speed fall while mounting a curb to turn in a side street when the road was to far for me to dab down.
I am considering getting a speedmaster for the road but really want to get a smaller capacity & lighter off road bike to try out green laneing etc.
I had a crf250 rally in 2020 but that was stolen + not as comfy as the tiger, which I have done a couple of 800+ mile days on.
I also want the bike to be shortish so that I can put it in a van 🤔
@@BrakeMagazine I should also point out that I have just turned 60 and only been back on two wheels since April 2020, my off road skills are non-existent 😂
@@backontwowheels9469 I would heavily suggest getting the correct springs for your weight on a dirt bike.Once you step over 85KG's they need stiffer springs to work properly and I'd probably suggest a bit of lowering until you get a lot more confident. Being able to get that foot down helps a lot I think :)
@@backontwowheels9469 That's super helpful 😂 Congrats on returning to riding! It's never too late. Get that bike lowered and you'll be happy!
is a 2 stroke good for a rally?
It depends on the race, but it can be done. There were a couple of 300's at Olympia.
Thx for the Info 👍
Lol, no way did a cable tie cause his handlebars to snap!!
That's the story man, from the manufacturers mouth. That's why most brands use rubber ties now.
The XPlor Pro is an overkill for this build.
The forks or the shock? I would disagree. The Xplor standard forks on this generation of bike is not good enough for Rally. It's dangerous at speed.
@@BrakeMagazine What year is this? I'm assuming 2022 based on the bodywork, so that'd mean OC forks? Personally I'm not a fan of the CC systems if we're talking affordable setups, but even putting that aside, I can get my 500 well into triple digits without any instability at the front. Even if you wanted CC for reduced foaming and improve performance during very long very hard rally stages, a standard 2024 range CC fork would likely be fine. I'm actually not sure how it works with inserts, but a regular Xplor Pro fork comes with Cone Valve, which while great, will really stress the budget quite a lot (not just for the initial purchase, but later during maintenance). (Edit: just checked, and the 6500 insert seems to be a regular CC cartridge, not even CV - which really makes me question the asking price) I've ridden all of those, and maybe I'm just not good enough of a rider to say that the improvement for my riding abilities is worth it. That being said, if we're talking someone that's a beginner at rallying, I would insist they wouldn't notice or need this improvement either (especially if we're talking about basing the build on a 2024 model, which is virtually identical to the Pro 6500 insert - see here for reference transmoto.com.au/explainer-wps-2024-model-fork-shock/). It's something that can be done after a few starts if an only if the suspension performance is noted to be lacking.
It was a 22 model yes. I am strictly talking about the Xplor model forks as a standard fork from 2017-2023.
These forks are not unstable or anything like that. The problem is the ability to be both sensitive too the ground and have bottoming resistance to make them safe.
They are cable of being one, or the other but not both in my experience. In rally you need both more than anything else to make it safe. My experience of the stock fork of that generation is that even when re-valved, it is a little unpredictable and dangerous.
I have multiple moment in Olympia where both the suspension and setting damper saved me from a certain crash. Before this, my own personal enduro bike was a Husqvarna 350 with Xplor forks and I am well experienced in how limiting that stock suspension was. It is, do anyone riding at notable speed, dangerous. If you trail ride slowly, it is fine, but I think in rally you run into an interesting problem.
You mention about being unable to notice the difference as a beginner, but I think this is a really common problem. Just because you cannot 'feel' the difference yet, doesn't not mean it is not there. More experienced riders are much more capable of riding around a bikes limitations than a beginner.
It means in rally, when the speed is a little higher, a better rider can ride a little within their ability and deal with the hole or rock they didn't see.
A beginner doesn't have this luxury and is much more likely to suffer from the negative side effects of the suspension than an expert. You ar more likely to crash from the rear end kicking or the front deflecting badly and rallies are inherently quick.
As for the closed cartridge vs open Xplor. The CC design is a HUGE upgrade. The gap to from CC to cone valve is smaller than the the gap from Xplor to CC.
From 24 onward, I would say that you do not need to spend money on the forks unless you have GasGas model.
I wouldn't say a full cartridge upgrade is necessary but for sure a KTECH kit, Dal Soggio kit or something equivalent is going to really improve your safety, as is a rear shock re-valve. These are more budget friendly options and are a huge return on your investment.
@@BartoszBanachewicz
Thanks for your detailed response! That makes a lot sense. @@BrakeMagazine
@@BrakeMagazinehi Llel, just watched this great series again. In Ep1 you promised feedback on the choice of suspension, but then this reply is all I can find about it. I’m totally with you re the forks, the 6500 cartridge lifts the pre-24 bikes up to level, and after all the cost is not overwhelming. But how about the shock? Can we talk about it? Is there a more affordable yet valid option than the 8946 at £1.6k+? For instance would you pair the 6500 with a revalved k-tech bladder xplor? What shock does come with the CC forks in the 2024 model, just the same as in previous years? Cheers.
Ktm is expensive bike but Kove 450 rally killed ktm now
I don’t think so, not yet. KTM only make a handful of rally bikes and they’ll have no problem selling them until the KOVE wins a Dakar stage Id say