Rivian Electric Truck vs. Land Cruiser 100 // UP THE DIABLO DROP-OFF
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- čas přidán 15. 11. 2021
- Can an electric vehicle off-road? At first, many people said things like:
-No, they're open differential
-No, they won't be able to control torque
-No, they'll just dig ruts into the ground
-No, how will you recharge them?
Well, seeing is believing, so watching the Rivian EV truck and putting it up against a Land Cruiser 100 on the same example will tell you alot! In this episode, these two vehicles attempt to drive up the Diablo Dropoff! This is a steep and rutted climb, and a challenge for many off-road vehicles. See how they do!
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For all you “Anti Range” EV zealots that are against 1000 mile range. The Company Aptera has designed a solar EV that is rated to do 1000 miles and has a hatch tent mod (for overlanding). Happened a lot sooner than I thought! So what do all of you have to say now???
I been keeping my eye on that company. Hopefully they come through, but probably a couple years out before being readily available.
Yeah but that car won’t let you off road
Haha😂😂 love it
The aptera sorry to say is a joke of an EV. Take a look at any of their recent videos.
Meh...
It's currently 'vaporware'.
I'll believe it, when I see a dozen of them on the trails, and running daily all across America.
This guy is insane. 1500 mile range?
I'm pretty sure if that LC had a better driver, he'd have done MUCH better.
The lack of throttle control, and the constant pausing on/off throttle was stalling his momentum.
Absolutely. His Landcruiser is heavy and every time he stops he loses all the momentum that would have pushed him easily over the bog holes. Not arguing that the Rivian does an excellent job. But it would have been good to see a more balanced comparison with capable and experienced drivers.
@@DownthunderAu Much lower power to weight ratio than the rivian due to the lack of power. I think the rivian is heavier because of its heavy batteries, but has so much more power and torque.
This. When you have open front diff vehicle, you have to drive it like that.
Exactly!!!
Its really not that steep. A 100 can walk up this with a little momentum.
The LC made a huge mistake by stopping and losing momentum.
A big part of those climbs comes down to momentum. Please tell the LC driver.
XD XD XD czcams.com/video/QeACRO3hoek/video.html
Was going to say the same thing... this feels staged
@@theKylenator Can't agree more. I'd bet the farm this was staged. The LC100 driver kept stopping as soon as he got momentum. He actually had to work at getting stuck. Note how he was driven up against the wall to his left, getting it stuck and the wheels spinning, then turning left away from the wall after it was already stuck. After the LC100 made it up the easier path, the guy can be heard in the video saying "he kept stopping...". Also see the Tacoma without lockers that wasn't stopping made it easily.
Nothing against EV trucks. I have one on pre-order, but mentioning this as a comparison of vehicles based on this result is nonsense.
Wheres your brave buddy with he MDX. I wana see him momentum it
@@zotheneq You owe me a farm! Here's the video link to our trip. We take 20 vehicles through Anza Borrego and just happened to stumble across these two. They didn't have a camera crew and didn't even record each other with their cell phones. czcams.com/video/POrgz5l5N8w/video.html
honestly owning a 100 series, its epic. taken it offroad a couple of times. love it.
In my opinion, drivers made the most difference in these 3 vehicles comparison. The LC 100 driver was off the throttle at the worst possible moments for A-Trac to function.
I explained that the 1999 Land cruiser doesn’t have A-trac, just a rear locker 😝
@@JonDZ_Adventuring duh, this is what happens when one watches CZcams in bed with the sound off 😴
@@JonDZ_Adventuring the driver in the LC made many operator errors
@@JonDZ_Adventuring well compare that truck with new LC 300 then we'll see who teaches who
I think you could put a very inexperienced driver in the Rivian and it would still get everywhere.
The locations of your videos are amazing. Such beautiful landscapes. Great for filming. 👍
when the price comes down on electrics (if it comes down?) they will be great off road, incredible low RPM torque and so on.
But for $70,000 for a Rivian I'll keep my 1999 Land Cruiser I paid 11k for last year.
And then just get a front locker for the your 1999 Landcruiser 😃. By the way, the guys that own the beige Landcruiser are getting a solid front axle swap. Should be interesting 😃
The other thing to remember is that electric is cheaper to operate. You can spend $10k more on an ev and it costs the same on your wallet since gas goes from $400/month to $30/month.
I paid 4500 for my land cruiser (2000 with atrac), but I might get rid of it after I get a rivian. Given the LC should sell for 20K, that helps bring the price of the rivian to reasonable levels.
@@rphotoboy you can swap a free rivian if you keep your LC for a couple of more years
Thanks for this. Nice to see the Rivian in action. I love the concept. Sorry to debunk your commentary, but the Rivian was predictably good. Massive torque and computer controlled independent motors? C'mon, it was always going to be a game changer. No surprises there. However, the 100 series was driven very poorly, I would even suggest it was staged. Unless they were a complete 4WD newbie this footage was a farce. No one with reasonable experience drives that badly. I complete similar slopes in my 100 series, no problems. Key components to success are: tyre pressures, line taken, momentum and appropriate throttle. I didn't see sufficient evidence of any of these being applied. Note: Adding diff lockers makes a world of difference. The 100 series is still a weapon when set up correctly. I agree that EV 4WD has a long way to go (pun intended) before being considered for overlanding. Big range is essential for that, especially if you want to do a desert crossing in Australia in safety. EV 4WD is not there yet. Looking forward to the next instalment of that genre. Cheers.
Rivian is excellent, but actually the torque thing about EV's is a big misconception. Torque at wheels in an EV isn't that massive by any means, because people always forget that torque in an ICE vehicle is measured at the engine flywheel. That means it gets multiplied by the transmission to the wheels. For example if you have 3.0 1st gear ratio, 2.0 low range ratio, and 4.0 axle ratio in the diff, you will have 3 x 2 x 4 = 24 times the engine torque at the wheels in the ICE 4x4. That already surpasses many EV's that have no gearing at all. Of course the electric motor has excellent torque, but because they usually don't use gears, the actual torque at the wheels isn't necessarily that high. If you have enough torque to break the traction, any more won't benefit. The Land Cruiser in the video didn't fail because of lack of torque, it failed because of lack of lockers.
“Staged” 😂 oh the CZcams community is adorable.
7k lbs!? My goodness it needs 4 motors!!! Super cool video 😎
Best Advertisement of Rivian against an old land cruiser
As someone who has been to Diablo drop off many times I have a few things to say.
1) it is a lot steeper and rutted out than the camera makes it seem.
2) Im impressed by how easily the Rivian went up it.
3) If the landcruiser had front lockers like the Rivian, then it would have gone up. Ive seen stock rubicon jeeps go up it just as easy.
4) i am very happy to see electric trucks on the market and i cant wait to own one soon.
YES YES YES ....I`m looking for weeks for a video like this :D :D :D :D
The poor LC100 is probably doing 'one-wheel drive'... Both front wheels lose grip without A-TRAC and one of of rear wheels is in the air.
Glad you had the disclaimer regarding the Atrac. Having owned both vehicles with the locker and the Atrac, I would definitely go with the Atrac.... or both
If I didn’t do that disclaimer, and showed how awesome a trac is, I don’t think anyone would believe me. People hear locker, and they think it’ll get up anything. A triple locked Landcruiser would be a different story though.
Thanks for sharing the video! Awesome to see. I'm excited to see how things go as technology and infrastructure develop over the next few years.
id like to know the range on these e.vs when going through boggy sand etc
I’m curious about going down. Did you have any kind of hill decent or did you have to ride the breaks? That’s a lot of weight but I’m very impressed.
Now Cybertruck release with 4 motors what will the weight difference between Rivian?
Amazing! Love it.
Rivian ❤
Can you go 1000-1500 in a gas vehicle without refueling?
Refueling at a gas station? Yes. Just carry as many Jerry cans as you’ll need. Every 1 gallon weighs 6.3 lbs.
@@JonDZ_Adventuring you completely failed to answer his Q. He asked *without* refueling and you started off with "Refueling ....".
@@JonDZ_Adventuring jerry cans count as refueling which misses point of the desire for 1000-1500 range without have to refuel/recharge, etc. so the gas engine can’t meet those needs either.
@@wanttoplae not sure if you knew, but people have been going on 1000+ mile expeditions in places like Australia for over 50 years. I don’t believe they even have gas stations out there. It’s all done via Jerry can. Wouldn’t that be cool if an EV could do the same? I guess you don’t want that. Are you anti EV? And to answer your original question, a 2021 Ford F-250 tremor with a Diesel engine and a 48 gallon gas tank has a 1300 mile range on the highway. But understand that exploring off pavement, you won’t get that kind of range. With ICE and EV, you can easily see that range get divided by 4.
@@JonDZ_Adventuring definitely not anti-EV as I have two Rivian reservations. I’m going to stop participating in conversation because I think you keep missing the point, even with your Australia example jerry cans are the equivalent of refueling. Using that analogy then EVs can get the same range as stated in the video because they can stop and recharge right?
I appreciate you asking the fella whether you could film him for a CZcams video.
These are super cool!
What trails are you doing that need a 1500 mile range?
There are two factors here. Compare a state of an art tech like the rivian to a state of an art 300 series LC. That's a fare fight. And second. Let's take that rivian offroading 22 years from now with an 2021 LC 300. Let's see which one is still on the road and still with all original parts performing as if they were still new.
ATRAC is a game changer. My first gen sequoia will go some many places with 33in tires ATRAC and some skid plates. And it’s huge and perfect for sleeping in week long hunting trips in the mountains it Never fails me.
Great video, awsome information
It was a sight to behold. I was expecting similar capability to a Tesla Model X, but I was soooooooooooo wrong. The Rivian is impressive, and this is proof that quad motor EV trucks are the future. I'm excited to see how much better Rivian version 2 will be.
@@JonDZ_Adventuring you would have to carry a generator to charge it for overlanding
Great reminder of the power of momentum. All the stoppy-starty stuff gets you nowhere fast 😆
That Rivian is a beast!
It sure is!
That Tacoma crushed it! The Rivian was really impressive. Personally I think I'd be OK with only 400-500 miles of range since so far I haven't ever needed to actually use extra fuel (always been able to get to a gas station), but unless you can get to a level 3 charger between your off road travels you're going to have a bad time, so it's definitely limiting your options.
400-500 miles would have barely got you to our Death Valley trip 🤣. I think having an absurd amount of range would seal the deal for me.
This video was also about how effective traction control has become! The Tacoma with no rear locker, killed it! Add a rear locker to that setup and its even more capable. Impressive stuff!
I want to see what other programs the Rivian could run. I believe they’re able to rotate like tanks, but how about a “slither mode”? It would slither up obstacles like a snake 🐍
@@JonDZ_Adventuring that is true. There weren’t many good charging options between trails. Would have been stuck charging on 110V in those tiny towns.
Even ICE vehicles don't have a 1500 miles range so that's just wishful thinking.
@@mrpmj00 But the reason that's OK for ICE vehicles is that the infrastructure is in place to be able to refuel anywhere. Without such an infrastructure you need more range out of the vehicle to support long-distance travel.
awesome video Jon! talk about right place right time. cool to see the rivian in action. espeically as a share holder lol. But, to be fair I think the 100 series definitely would have made it had it carried the same moment the rivian came in with. from where the video started, it seemed like the 100 came in almost at a crawl. idk i wasnt there, but i do think the landcruiser would have made it up. Then again.... you already know where my biased stands lol!!
Thanks Cruiser Shooter! I cut out the approach footage because I was trying to keep the video time down. The Landcruiser made multiple attempts and used even more momentum than the Rivian and Tacoma. I hear that this video is circulating on a Landcruiser Facebook page, and what people might not understand is that this is very soft terrain. Traction control helps here. I made sure to explain that, because I knew no one would believe me otherwise. The Rivian actually lets off on the accelerator because hitting the rut, so it didn’t carry momentum throughout.
Wait… I just rewatched the land cruiser’s attempt. He lets off at the wrong moment, lol.
@@JonDZ_Adventuring Also things like tire pressures can make a massive difference, so should not make too far conclusions from these. But the main point right about this is that indeed, electric vehicles in theory have all the possibilities to be good off roaders, power, very precise motor control, and they don't need air, so if well insulated, they could do deeper water crossings than ICE's. The only downsides of EV's for offroading are high weight, poor cold climate operation and somewhat limited operating range if you want to go to a really long distance travels, like accross a desert or in remote areas.
Whoever was driving the LC had no idea how to drive off-road.
I'd be willing to bet the Rivian will be in the shop for work before the 100.
So how long would it last in 4x4 ?
MotorTrend had no trouble charging the Rivian on their journey across the US on the Trans-America Trail. The infrastructure is there and it's getting better all the time.
I read the article. They used public L2 and L3 charges, as well as Rivian installed charge stations on the trail. Rivian purposely built those charges were infrastructure didn’t exist. So, I wouldn’t say “no problem”. The rivians took 43 days to complete the trail. On average, it takes a stock gasoline/diesel 4WD 28 days. You’re right, with better infrastructure and improved battery technology with 1000 mile range and 5 minute charging, I think EV off-roaders will do it even quicker than ICE off-roaders. I wonder if the 15 extra days were from charging the Rivians.
The Tacoma has Multi Terrain Select (MTS) and not A-TRAC. The difference is MTS allows you to adjust the aggressiveness of the traction system. We do this trail every October and enjoy playing on the diablo drop off. Keep up the great videos.
How much fuel do you carry with you to get the 1500 of miles of range?
With infrastructure put in place and a 3 minute refuel time to get 450 miles range, I’ve never had to resort to my 2 gallon fuel pack. Did you watch the video? Do you know why I’d need 1500 miles range to go “overlanding”? Do you know what “overlanding” is? There’s no reason for your question…. unless you didn’t watch the video.
@@JonDZ_Adventuring I did watch the video fully (I have a Tacoma and a 100 Series) but I was thinking... he'd have to go deliberately off the beaten path to need 1500 miles of range in an ICE. So I was wondering if you carried a lot of jerry cans or what not.
Your point with the infrastructure on EV charging is well taken, but in the context of my above question, it's why asked for clarification on what you meant.
@@JonDZ_Adventuring and why you have to be so dissmissive? calm down mr. youtuber
Great job comparing two vehicles from two different era! At least, try the comparison using a current gen Land Cruiser 300. 😁
He kept stopping and turning into the hillside to bury
the tires. It’s bullshit.
Wow - that TRD Sport with no locker handled it fine... Sheesh, I thought I needed at least a Rear Locker...
I was impressed too! Especially seeing how much the LC100 struggled.
Atrac is awesome
Great content once again, really enjoying seeing the comparison between different vehicles. It seems like brake based traction control systems do a better job on extremely slippery surfaces like this one than pure lockers. The "ABS-like" action of braking and un-braking produce more traction than purely locking up the wheels that a mechanical locker would.
I was pretty amazed to see the amount of articulation on the Rivian with its fully independent air suspension. Do you know if the Rivian had its air suspension set to the max height? Based on what I have seen on land rover videos, raising air suspension to max height severely limits articulation. The Rivian didn't even lift a wheel!
NK, you make really good observations! I'm not sure what settings the Rivian was using, but I really see the potential. I've been commenting about "slither mode", like a snake! I'm sure there could be some really incredible programs a 4 motor system can perform.
So, owning a vehicle with traction control and having added a locker to it later, I can say this is not the case. At least with my generation traction control. In this video, IMHO, you are seeing the weakness of the open front diff of the 100, versus a very sophicsticated traction control that is likely so much more than brake assist, but rather motor on/off...thus never having to brake a wheel and possible stop momentum. But a double locked vehicle would definately be just fine and a vehicle with some sort of traction control on the front and a rear locker would have probably been okay...it's just in the situation where the rear tires are both doing all they can and need some help from the front...that open diff, just can't provide that help... All that said, once battery capacities, charging technologies and infrastructure get in place I will happily wheel an EV with a motor per wheel...we're still at least a vehicle generation away though...again IMHO...
The Rivian air suspension works differently than most others on the market (McLaren has used the same type of system), and it doesn’t suffer nearly as much of a penalty as the Range Rover, Tesla, or other air suspensions. Some cool info about how it works can be found if you search.
Well I guess it only shows that having a vehicle with (good) traction control on both axles is better than having just rear locker. You can clearly see that one of the front wheels of the TLC is spinning and the other not moving. Would really like to see a vehicle with 3 difflocks (G-Wagen, Rubicon, 70-series LC...) as a comparsion. Anyway the traction control systems are only used only on SUVs or recreational vehicles. Professional/military/emergency trucks (even the newest one which are just planned for production like the W464 or Ineos) still use mechanical difflocks.
Not really. Remember that the LC did not have a front locker. With no type of LSD or brake locking system on the front, as soon as one front wheel loses traction the front of the LC is useless. Whereas with four motors the Rivian could apply power to a front wheel that still has traction. This was essentially comparing a 4wd with rear locker and nothing up front to a 4wd with front and rear lockers- kind of a foregone conclusion. And on a hill climb in particular you want to be pulling as well as pushing. A couple of times you saw the effect of only pushing, it lifts the front which is already more susceptible to lifting due to the steepness of the incline, and also when only one rear wheel gets traction this will turn the vehicle off its line. Rivian vs front and rear locker vehicle like a Gladiator would probably be about the same. If locked before when approaching a feature the vehicle with front and rear lockers will probably look smoother actually because a system like Rivian’s requires slip for it to send power to the other wheel. Would also be interested to see a more articulated track. I really want to see what kind of droop the Rivian has when air sus is raised. Traditionally with air sus when you raise it it decreases it’s articulation. Wonder if Rivian has figured out a way around this or if it suffers from same problem.
WOW, great content as always. I wonder how long it would take to fast charge at 1500 mi battery. Then again you’d only be charging from maybe 30% to full which is still a lot. Must be weird going up that hill in total silence 😂
It appears that most batteries will charge to around 80% pretty rapidly. The last 20% taking a lenghty amount of time. In a 1500 mile range battery that would still be 1200. I was watching a TFL video where they charged a Tesla with a 240V gas generator. I figure a 12000 watt generator could probably charge up in about 30 hours.... jeebus :(. I wonder how much gas that would take.
I think I'm liking the idea of a 240 Kilowatt battery adventure trailer more :P haha!
@@JonDZ_Adventuring 🤣 plus a solar awning that can be deployed while driving.
@@JonDZ_Adventuring If you want to charge 1500 miles (with a big 4x4) in less than half an hour you need the power connection of a small town. It is ridicilous and will not happen, because nobody will want to pay for such a connection. Fast charging is typically more expensive than charging at home because of the infrastructure, and it will be very expensive with these high demands.
@@JonDZ_Adventuring too bad you can’t just remove the last 20% of your battery to save on weight! :p
@@roland9367 battery swap stations?
EV range is actually higher at slow speed, like overlanding. You do not burn fuel when you are "idling". Rivian should put the numbers.
Sweet comparison. I wonder if the LC100 has an issue that isn’t obvious.
The LC100 I came across seems to behave just like the other ones. It did a lot better than my Honda, the problem is the terrain is very very soft. He actually tried using more momentum than the Rivian.
The Rivian will be my first electric vehicle purchase as my daily driver, not sold on it yet for overlanding (how would it be recharged during extended trips over rural areas?). I have been waiting for the Cyber truck....and still waiting, by the time it comes out the market will be flooded with several other proven options.
240KW battery pack adventure trailer!!!!!
@jcberb I would suggest we need to change our thinking of "recharging". Furthermore, a lot of small rural towns, even here in Western Australia, actually do have charging infrastructure already, so it's not as greater issue as one might at first think.
@@DavidS-wm9ud that's both interesting and great to hear! Mostly up the coast of inland as well?
Yo anyone down to see the trail pack model x alongside the track pack model s
The driver 100% had to do with the test there were points where he could have gone up but he stopped
I noticed, he put weight in the back of the Rivian, and the tires of that Tacoma at the end was way more aggressive than the Rivian.
It doesn’t matter the rivian is heavier and has 800hp over double the Tacoma
It's best not to stop in the middle of your climb brother. Just try to keep slow and steady momentum
Can you post the video of the Wilderness doing it?
The out back wilderness did not make it up the hard line. But I do have a video with the Outback wildness making it up the same line as the land cruiser. The video is called “21 vehicles down the Diablo drop off”.
Range is not the issue at all. 300 to 500 mile range is sufficient. The newer vehicles charge at 15m to 20m. The problem is that nation-wide charging station deployment is not as prolific as gas stations, especially in remote places with few locals.
Engineering Explained traveled nearly a 1000 miles in one day with a Tesla and it was completely doable, with a reasonable amount of overhead time.
Of course, 4 electric motors is superior to anything you can get with a single engine. And you have the incredible torque advantage. Plus, your gas vehicles are extremely inefficient in low speeds, unlike your electric vehicles.
Electric definitely has much advantage.
Range is not an issue for the daily driver, but when I get far enough from Los Angeles, I've traveled those 300 to 500 miles. If range was doubled or tripled then there would be more flexibility and peace of mind. I've been thinking heavily of a 240 KWh adventure trailer battery pack. Maybe that's the answer. Maybe a portable battery pack can get loaded into the bed of the Rivian. Sounds like a good solution to get the best of both worlds. that 240 Kwh battery is going to weight 3000 lbs. though.
@@JonDZ_Adventuring No, the answer is that you charge in the town close to your destination in 15 minutes and, again, before leaving for home.
Even ICE vehicles don't have a 1500 miles range so that's just wishful thinking.
@@DavidDLee we went to Death Valley 2 weekends ago. 30 to 50 miles separated us from even a gasoline station. From the Trona Pinnacles to Lone Pine, CA is 102 miles. That’s just not feasible, not sure if it ever will be. More range is the answer. What do you have against it?
@@JonDZ_Adventuring Because (1) it's not necessary: what's wrong with driving ~200 miles from LA to Olancha, CA and recharging for 15 minutes, then having ~300 miles of range to go offroad with?
(2) The alternative of carrying more batteries or a range extender is possible, but why would you do this?
(3) A Jeep also has a limited range, perhaps 400 miles in the best-case. When you go offroad, it will not be very efficient. I don't think anyone carries gas for 1,500 miles.
I am with you Jon on the issue of range, a coworker/buddy of mine and I started talking about electric vehicles and them being the future I pointed out that I would need to have range because of where I go there are no gas stations nearby and if I were to drain the batteries, how do I get back out without having to haul some form of power generation with me and how long it would take to get enough charge at that, so yes, 1000 mile range minimum for suren
I just watched Donald’s (Softroadingthewest) and just realized you’re the guy that made his emblem. Good work with that! Yeah, I received some messages on Instagram from people that actually tried to go on road trips, and they too said they’d like to see 1000 mile range minimum. Some are commenting that’s it’s not necessary, but they’re also probably not doing what we’re doing. They might not realize that traversing 25 rough miles will use a lot of energy (watts) to get through. Also, how many carry an extra 10 gallon Jerry cans on long adventures? Part of overlanding is being prepared for the worst, so … im just bewildered that anyone would be opposed to more range, or thinking that 300 miles is enough.
@@JonDZ_Adventuring Thank you! And It's those darn on-roaders that only consider going on well groomed gravel roads as going off-road lol. It's only when you are out at places like central/eastern Oregon on a 2 track that used to be a wagon trail with no gas for 100 miles around that you start thinking of those extra 10 gallons will make or break you for getting to one of those stations. I for one have always been overly prepared ever since I got my second vehicle (70 Bug) and so yes range is key for everything, when you get out on those 2 tracks you are using 2-3X more energy (whether it be using a liquid fuel or electron fuel). Also there is the fact that you stated of waiting for charging, unless you are at a Tesla supercharger station (even though those take roughly 20 min to fully charge a vehicle still). For a trip to, lets say, Anaheim from Portland, you would be adding about 3-4 hours on a standard charger to the 16 hour drive just to recharge.
You will not be ready to pay the price for 1000 mile range, so it will most likely not happen. Or perhaps somewhere 2030 where batteries are super cheap, not much earlier.
They will stay weigh a lot. Better keep your big silly truck for the weekends and actually use something efficient and electric as your daily driver. That will be much easier and comfortable to drive and save you money.
@@JonDZ_Adventuring What I have been doing in terms of "Overlanding" as a European is going across lots of countries into other continents (for us mostly Asia), most of the time with diesel Toyota's. And some of the routes we have travelled, other people already did with an electric car. Mostly a very normal road car, so they didn't do the offroad parts we did, but they went far with cars like a Tesla Model S but also with much smaller range cars like the Nissan Leaf. Did it cost more time? Yes, definitely, but they got everywhere.
There is this thing call mobile charger packs just like the red tanks of gas..
A lot has to do with tire size and how aggressive they are, I think the Land Crusser 100 with better tires could have also climb the first hill
That built taco at the end did good. My stock taco probably couldn’t go there :/
I'm waiting for the R1S.
Problem is you won't carry momentum everywhere you go wheeling. And starting at over 3.5 tons, you will get stuck and sunk. Need to test on angle at full stop and restart without momentum.
I think the Rivian was really impressive, but the Tacoma did a great demonstration that you don't necessarily need a locker if you have good traction control system. I think they're definitely will be a place for EV's in the future, but I agree that not quite yet. I think for a daily driver a 500mile range would be fantastic, that would make me happy and would make me consider one. And I actually live in an apartment where I don't have access to a charger, however if the infrastructure is good enough that I could charge at work, a 500-mile charge would go a full week. I think a 500-mile charge would be acceptable for overlanding, because most popular vehicles realistically barely get over 400. I know my 4Runner if I dip down low in the tank will do 400, but not much more. I do think we have a ways to go with infrastructure before this can be viable, hopefully the new bill in Congress addresses this, but I think the main obstacle is going to be charging time. If it takes 6 hours to charge, that's definitely a damper on everyone's adventure. It'd be nice to be able to plug it in, grab lunch, and come back to a full battery.
Just as a note . The 300 mile range on the lighting is with a 1000lbs load.
Jon with the early Rivian videos! Good stuff - will be interesting to see how battery tech evolves. Maybe we will get that overland capable range one day!
I think we will! Batteries will get better! I bet someone will come up with a “Power Pack Trailer”. 5000 mile range 🤣
@@JonDZ_Adventuring That or batteries will be more compact and you can carry 200 miles of range in the shape of a Jerry can 😂
@@JonDZ_Adventuring They already have - the company is called "Rivian":). They've announced a pick-up with the bed filled completely with batteries. to recharge other vehicles. A veritable "tanker truck". Rivian also has announced a "no questions asked wilderness rescue policy". I've told them intentions to go to Coyote Flats, etc. with mine and they've confirmed - we'll come out free of charge" if needed. But, I also have a deposit in on a Bronco Raptor for back-up. CU out there!
OH WOWZA!!!!! Dang… *now* the next problem, where can I get the money to buy one 🤣. Thanks for the info! Truly impressed by the Rivian! Hey…. Can it rotate around like a tank?
@@JonDZ_Adventuring Yup - in deep mud or tear your tires clean off . . .. They even trademarked "Tank Turn". BTW, love your videos and you inspired me to get BMW X5 35d up to Coyote flats this summer. Here's Rivian: czcams.com/video/yzwM8KE2L3I/video.html
Ya baby. Rivian has the best Mechanical Engineers the world. Be a leader, the infrastructure structure and technology is well on it ways.
Agree with your review there is no question the Rivian's capability but I'm never giving up my built 200 Series Land Cruiser cause like you its a range issue and freedom to explore with my other Land Cruiser brothers roaming the country without worrying about the support of the electric infrastructure to support recharging them. For you average weekend camper explorer maybe the Rivian will fit their needs I definitely feel like its the best electric option on the market.
I've been over rougher terrain in my 06 Focus
damn that Rivian was very impressive and surprisingly in its element with Electric motors having all the lowspeed torque.
The quad motors are something really cool and honestly Honda as done something similar with the Acura "sport Hybrids" having two motors that can spin, drag, or true torque vector each rear in the the rear of the MDX and RLX sport hybrid or Front Wheels in the the NSX...Honda please start actually commiting to ideas!
I believe Honda is working with GM to make their EV truck. I heard rumors 🤞. I really like the idea of the 4 motors. Rivian did a great job.
right on point with infrastructure: cali can barely keep the power grid up esp in the summer
TFL did a video where they used a Honda 7000 watt gas generator on a Tesla, because California power grid black outs. To charge from near empty to a full battery would take 10 hours and 3.2 gallons of gas.
@@JonDZ_Adventuring 👍 very much more of a luxury vehicle, than a tool for the working man
You’re forgetting that EVs can carry solar panels and charge themselves in the middle of nowhere. Of course it takes a long time, but for overlanding it could work. Infrastructure can also be setup in the middle of nowhere with solar without need to haul gas there, making it more viable for overlanding.
Solar panels would be a great idea to carry around. I don't know if the technology is there to make it super practical though. Would you have to stop for a day and let it charge? Or would it only take a few hours? I don't know.
@@chrisnah8423 Even with a huge unfurling array of cells, it would take forever to charge an EV on current solar tech.
"Long time", it takes about a month for such a heavy vehicle with a couple of panels. 😂
@@chrisnah8423 Sun shines at about 1 kW per square meter. Panels can recover about 20% of that, so 200 Watts / m^2. If you have 100 kWh battery pack, it will take 100 000 / 200 = 500 hours to charge it with 1 m^2 solar panel. If you have 2 square meters of panels, "only" 250 hours . . . 😂 With 20 m^2 of panels (that is a lot), you can do it in 25 hours, so in 3-5 days if you are on desert in perfect weather.
@@wopmf4345FxFDxdGaa20 I was hoping someone would do the math. 👍
would love to get better range out of my 4Runner, but it's got a V8 and she's a little thirsty. Seems something odd may have even going on with that 100. The Taco walked right up it. It's goin to be exciting to see what the future brings for powertrains. Personally, I'd love to see a plug-in hybrid. Something I can drive to work in full EV mode and charge at home throughout the week. Then when it comes trip time run it in hybrid mode and get 25-30 mpgs, but still have plenty of power and low end torque when needed. A 4Runner plug in hybrid with lockers could easily have 400 hp, 50 miles EV only range, and do 25-30 mpg highway.
The Jeep Wrangler 4xE has 21 miles EV range and then switches to a 2.0 turbo that gets 20 mpg highway. That 2.0 turbo power plant really concerns me, because on the highway with high winds it’s affected by drag. The turbo is constantly spooling. On a trip to Colorado, we had a Gladiator 3.6 V6 , my 3.5 V6 Honda and a Jeep Wrangler 2.0 turbo. At 80 mph in high winds, the gladiator and I were getting 18.5 mpg, the Wrangler 2.0 turbo was getting 12 mpg!!!! I’m very curious what the true highway MPG is on the 4xE, because an EPA 20 mpg highway is not impressive. I think Diesel hybrids make a whole lot of sense! The electric motors can counter the lag of the diesel motors until they can spool up.
the real interesting thing for me will be whats the true range if youre out running inclines and trails. 300mi range is assuming youre on a paved surface going flat but it suffers huge drop offs when youre climbing or towing. Would I get one of these trucks personally? Considering its $4 gal gas under since Biden, my current Silverado is costing me about $300mo in fuel each month. The savings on electricity vs gasoline would help offset the cost of the vehicle and if I wanted to go running trails all weekend I wouldnt be above bringing a gas powered generator to charge up if I needed to. I like the 7k weight and its ability to climb and get traction, Id buy one for its utility, I couldnt care less about the "save the planet" aspect.
Infrastructure aside...would you buy a 70k wrangler or 70k rivian?
Infrastructure is hard to ignore. If we were at a point where recharging was just as quick as filling up on gasoline, then I’d take the Rivian. A wrangler is too uncomfortable, and there’s so much storage in the Rivian. Frunk, Brunk, Bed, pass through. Tank mode. The Rivian has a lot going for it.
It's interesting how a 200 series LC would cope with this. I think the main problems with LC100 here were the weight of the car, absence of A-trac and driver's experience... That said Rivian is 400kg heavier than LC100.
That driver wasn't good, I've driven the same Land Cruiser, stock over way worse terrain than that with no issue whatsoever
@@clesioescorcio7428 I agree and street tires do not help either. Seemed that air pressure was not lowered. Either way I'll take the LC100 because it will outlast that Rivian. A colleague of mine bought an LC100 new and currently has 595,000 miles zero issues and looks amazing for the year.
Land Cruiser 80 with the factory front, rear and center locks and lighter weight, solid front and rear axle, would beat them all. 😂
I agree that the range on the Rivian is not a problem (my FJ gets maybe 200 to 230 miles on a tank). They’ve already overlanded from South America to California with the 300 range battery pack (on option is the 400 mile range pack). They’ve done the Trans America trail. They’ve also done the Rebelle rally.
The problem is the infrastructure (not enough reliable non tesla chargers). You keep bringing up Death Valley. Once the electrify America chargers in Baker start working (they seem to have been under construction for the past 1-2 years) that will give your 300 to 400 miles of range to get in and around death valley. Looking on the maps there are also other places in Death Valley to top up and charge.
Would be interesting to have stationary panels with batteries and chargers in the middle of some of these trails. They would be self sufficient since they just need to collect sun, convert to onsite batteries, then those power the chargers. Would work well considering Rivian is just making 2 Riv’s a day but not viable when a whole group of Rivians come to charge.
So far I’ll keep my tesla as a daily driver and keep using my FJ for off-road until I see in the real world how viable the Rivian is.
Death Valley was 180 offroad miles and 613 onroad miles done over 3 days and 3 nights on a very tight schedule, so I feel the range is definitely a problem. It’s too hard to ignore. We had two vehicles with double flat tires. I was going to escort them to the closest major town which would have been a 250 mile detour. Luckily, someone volunteered to look after them. Unexpected things will happen, and all I want is more range to account for this. More range would solve a lot of problems. But I’ll agree, with less range, you can go on overlanding trips. You just need lots of time. Sounds perfect for someone that’s retired, and really patient.
There are chargers in Beatty, Amargosa Valley, Furnace Creek and Pahrump.
@@JonDZ_Adventuring I don’t know where your trail starts and stops for Death Valley because I don’t have enough friends with vehicles capable of overlanding that I can go with… but from where I live in OC to Baker it’s about 146 miles away. With a 300 mile range Rivian that means I’d have about 50% of my charge by the time I get to Baker. I can plug into one of the evgo fast chargers in Baker and get 240 to 270 miles of range in about 30 minutes. Enough time to get out, stretch legs, and use the bathroom. If I decided to stop and get food then I’d have the full 300 miles of range by the time I’m done eating. That leaves another 240 to 300 miles of range to cover the 180ish miles off-road. You’d still have enough electricity to control your HVAC if camping in the truck to stay cool or warm. You’d have even more range if you had the 400 mile range battery.
Now if you wanted enough batteries to get 1000 miles of range… could you imagine how much weight you’d be hauling around and off-roading with? Imagine getting it stuck in the sand and attempting to have a Taco recover a truck with 1000 miles worth of batteries?
What? No claps 👏 for the Rivian? Sour grapes 🍇
It’s either disappointed Landcruiser fans that can’t accept that unless it’s tripled locked it won’t be able to climb up as easy as a Modern Toyota truck with traction control, or Tesla owners that were triggered by the reality that you need Atleast 1000 miles EV range for overlanding. THE RIVIAN HANDLED SUPERB!!!
You could technically put a 2-3 ton trailer on the back to get an extra 1000 or more miles. Put some solar panels aswell and they'll charge while you're moving.
Now show me a 100 series being driven at a slow constant speed. Even without A-TRAC it should get up there. I'm just waiting for the R1S to be available here in Australia. Ideally with 5-600 miles of range. It's pretty rare for me anyway to not want to stop driving for a bit after 500 miles of constant driving, and it's seriously rare to not see electricity for that far. Even on the Canning Stock Route, you'd find a way to charge if you're happy to wait around for a bit, and if you're doing the Canning Stock Route and aren't prepared to take it easy once or twice you are not going to have a great time.
Rivian is gorgeous 🤙🏻
the land cruiser has a quite funky rear end as well and outdated
It was making so much noise struggling trying to get uphill 🤣😩
In order for an infrastructure to start....purchases of vehicles need to be there....so people should start buying electric.....as for having extended miles...try bringing a power station or generator. Just some food for thought.
Totally agree re your point on electric trucks. Until they triple their range, they're not going to compete with diesel. Hydrogen may have a chance, if in theory you're able to carry an extra canister or three and refuel out bush.
Some FYIs to share:
- New Bronco has worse ICE range than EVs do.
- Rivian and Jeep are both building charging stations in popular off-road areas.
- Jeep did Rubicon Trail with limited plug-in range. Rivian and other EVs could do that, too, with no problem.
- Long-term off-grid favors EV, since it effectively is multi-fuel (solar, house, commercial, generator...)
- Nissan built their Re-Leaf concept because of the proven supply of EV over ICE
- Generators for EVs are called "Range Extender", and one was used in the Dakar Rally a few years back.
- If you're going into an area that doesn't have a charging station listed online, use your fricken phone and talk to other humans 😆. Call gas stations, ranger stations, and so on, until you get someone that will let you plug in your own extension cord.
It would be interesting to see it compared to Land Rovers Traction control, specifically the Range Rover
I need to adventure out with more land rovers. I know this guy with a brand new Discovery, but he brought his wife’s Volvo XC90 on our last trip. We had a Disco sport, but it’s similar to the Evoque. I don’t believe it has the same traction control system as a Disco.
@@JonDZ_Adventuring the range rovers have some of the best traction control out there. I love electric vehicles but their kerb weight and range are things that need to be worked on
Range rover has the best traction control on earth, there is litteraly no competition, I've seen range rover rock crawling with stock Street tires, trust me.
@@carholic-sz3qv Youre correct, however, electric motors have superior torque delivery and modulation. It all comes down to physics. Some of the downsides of the Rivian is its length, gear ratio and weight. Think about it, a range rover has engine that drives four wheels through several mechanical components with electronics and brakes which limit traction loss versus a vehicle with a high torque motor at a wide range of RPMs at EACH individual wheel. That inherently superior and easier to control when coupled with electronic controls.
@@HotHeadCJ lol..... low end torque is nothing when you don't have a good traction control, at Carwow on youtube a 85hp 2 cylinder fiat panda humiliated the tesla modelx for example. Land rovers with barely 100hp are fantastic offroad....
Jon, I think you have the wrong idea.
SOME electric vehicles have differentials. Tesla cars with dual-motor AWD feature open differentials at the front and rear drive units. Electric vehicles featuring a similar drive unit layout that combines the differential with the electric motor will have differentials. Like most vehicles that have open differentials, such vehicles rely primarily upon brake-based traction control to transfer power side-to-side to the drive wheels with grip.
If you don't believe me, you can look up how Unplugged Performance recently released a limited-slip differential available for specific Tesla vehicles.
Obviously, this Rivian pickup does not have the same problem as the drive unit design used in Tesla cars, assuming it has independent electric motors per drive wheel as you mentioned.
Holy crap!
They make a good overlamb option if your expectation isn't a ridiculous 1500 miles
Cybertruck next year?
When you have open front diff vehicle, you have to drive it like that. They unnecessarily made the Land Cruiser perform even worse than it in reality does by driving it like that. 😂 The Rivian did excellent in this kind of obstacle. But same way you could do a comparison on another kind of obstacle to find out how it does there. Would love to see them do a steeper hill climb with deep holes, where you need momentum and the 4WD system must react fast in order to maintain the momentum. Reactive systems tend to have difficulties in this kind of obstacle. Another good test would be very soft terrains so we could see how badly it sinks.
I got a new Mercedes Sprinter Diesel 4banger in Germany that got more than 1500 Miles range. I do not now any other new Ride that comes this fare. A real range of 1000 Km / 625 Miles in a Rivian R1S would fit me 😁🌵🌴🏖️🏁
I want a plug-in hybrid Tundra. That's the end all be all. With a heavy duty e-cvt using a gigantic planetary gear set.... Thing would literally run for eternity :D
All electric vehicles have differentials, you still need to split torque to either wheel at different speeds. The rivian does not have differentials just a single speed transmission for each wheel.
I cannot take this channel seriously with “I need 1500 mile range”.
Personal I'm already gonna get one with the infrastructure bill being passed and rivian making there adventure network and the possibility tesla will open up their chargers here in the US like they did in the Netherlands but, I can't wait to see what these companies do with carbon batteries and sold state batteries
Love the attitude Techblaze! There’s a lot to look forward to!
Scroll through the comments and you’ll find a lot of people that think Lithium batteries is the only option and technology can’t advance any further. I know they’ll be proved wrong in the coming years.
@@JonDZ_Adventuring yep there is still a ton of other battery technologies in development can't wait to see where it goes especially where it goes with wearables, laptops, and phones
@@JonDZ_Adventuring Look at the Blade battery by BYD....
Sorry but does any ICE car have a 1000 mile range. I don't see any gas stations from where you are standing either. I understand your point but I feel like you're asking for just a little bit much. I think 400 mile range is going to be the sweet spot in the coming years. I'm waiting for a couple improvements before I pick up my electric vehicle
That's what I'm waiting for, enough improvements. I'd be more than happy to switch. I'm looking forward to see what happens in the next 5-7 years. Oh, and to answer your question: Yes, there are several ICE vehicles with 1000+ mile range. The Diesel Ford Tremor F-250 has around a 1300 mile range with it's 48 gallon gas tank.
The Rivian is spectacular, but I wonder if it's really fair to compare a stock truck that isn't really publicly available to a stock truck that's been available for 20 years.
Rivian has now added a sand mode btw !!!
Once I've driven my LR3 into the ground I'll be getting an R1S
What people also need to think about is that a 180kwh battery pack takes a really really long time to charge. Especially if you don’t have access to anything more than 240V.
That’s why the only way I’d consider one right now is if they had absurd 1500 mile range.
@@JonDZ_Adventuring yeah I agree, I also think there will be a limited consumer market for these as battery electric isn’t the best solution for larger vehicles. Something like my crosstrek yes, but a 4Runner or larger probably should be hybrid or hydrogen.
People who don't own electrics seem to not understand how much of a non-issue charging really is if you own your own home.
It charges overnight easily? Using just the mobile charger that comes with it you can charge about 17 miles an hour. If you get a hardwired Rivian charger you can charge at 25 mph or so on 240v.
Fast charger availability is getting pretty ubiquitous, although can still stand some improvement. Rivian's "adventure network" will hopefully plug a lot of the gaps in/near remote locations.
Unless you do a lot of towing or driving in the seriously middle of nowhere then you'll be fine. You could easily handle a 200 mile/day commute so long as you're home for eight hours to sleep.
Bring that LC down to Dubai we'll show you how to use it.
At about 02:00 into the vid, that first vehicle had street-pressure tires. The vehicle after that with all the stuff on top, he was aired down a bit. That's what made the difference.
Incorrect. He’s running Falken Wildpeak AT3W.
@@SDwriter.and.surfer mis read, I glanced at it and saw street tires. But all the tires you see here are aired down to 15-20 PSI.
@@SDwriter.and.surfer keep in mind, you’re comparing a shot from 100 feet vs. a shot from 5 feet. You’ll see more detail up close obviously. Look up my video “fins n thing south”, proof we all aired down.
@@JonDZ_Adventuring I'll look that up, but also take you at your word. Thanks for clarifying. Good point on the distance factor. From a distance the white one's tires didn't seem to moosh hardly against the rocks and looked a little bouncier.
The LC driver alternated between way too much throttle and none at all, picked bad lines, and I don't think he ever used the rear locker. The Rivian did great, but I don't think it's a fair comparison when the LC didn't even get traction control that year.
Also, the driver of the Land Cruiser 100 generally doesn't know what he's doing...he keeps letting off killing his momentum.
Landcruisers are all about durability. Not comparable yet. Do an overland from Cape Town to Cairo and see which one gets there first and at what cost. I'm sure the Rivian will be looking for a re-charge a few hours out of Cape Town. Cost is probably double for the Rivian too.
No EV for me... Still would go for the 100 series