Parental Alienation Syndrome Part 3: Treatment and Outcomes
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- čas přidán 27. 08. 2022
- Welcome to The Mental Breakdown and Psychreg Podcast! Today, Dr. Berney and Dr. Marshall discuss the unfortunate outcomes of PAS and the limitations for treatment.
Read the articles from Psychiatric Times here (www.psychiatrictimes.com/view..., from Attachment Parenting here (www.attachmentparenting.org/p..., and from Psychology Today here (www.psychologytoday.com/us/ba....
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The grief is a different kind of pain. Death of a child is unimaginably painful, but your own child suddenly rejecting you is like they also killed YOU.
And then they have an unhealthy addiction to horror and torture on top of all that.... and a vengeance to make thier parents pay :(
@@AnnieNelson-wo6bmAnnie what did you do ?I remember before I snapped I was a normal loving idiot as well but if your child is scary already you obviously did something I'm gonna do everything my mom did too me eventually and probably get in a alot of trouble for it but hopefully I can say she's delusional and imagined it ?hahahahahaha ...lady please .
Is the most horrific psychological and emotional trauma you can put on a human being, it's like mourning the death of your child who's still alive,.
The pain in your heart never ends.
Exactly!
And people who lose a child by death have support groups .
I'm not taking away from their permanent grief but when a parent gets alienated, we have Nobody to turn too and are questioned as to what we must have done to cause it .
It eats me from inside .
I miss my only child so much it's making me very ill .
We need support groups with actual help with getting us back with our loved ones .
Oh, I hear you as I am going through the same thing. I have not had a relationship with my boys for 4 years and have suffered greatly. My only advice is to keep going forward. As they grow up, they can change there mind. Having friends around you will help. Best of luck.
Correct Jesus... yo you all have no idea...💔🙏🙏🙏
100% agree
This is one of the most insightful discussions on this subject, imo. The stress of my longterm alienation from my adult children has taken years off my life.
Thank you for this episode of parent alienation .
I am living through this and it is TORTURE
It's almost worse than losing a child by death because being a Woman as the victim, the world looks at you as if you must have done something and you get villainized.
My baby is my life ,my only child, I love her more than anything and her Narcissistic father, who happens to be politically involved dragged me through the courts for years .I spent hundreds of thousands of dollars in court and had to work more and more to pay for it ...
I come from a toxic family with a Narcissistic sister and of course the 2 got together and stalk me ...
My health has declined because of the depression. I went from being a healthy athlete who Never got sick to 5 surgeries and now almost physically crippled.
I get no sleep and cry 2 to 4 times a day.
We feel so alone .
I have become recluse d .
I have to watch my only child's wedding through others photos and now she just had her first child...
When people say ,stress can kill you ,it can !
Know this is not a male/female issue. You are not alone.
It is infuriating when an Alienation-talking group references 'mediation.' An Alienating parent is a predator and will never agree to mediation.
Imagine this happening slowly, over 14 years, where the child is now a young adult and at 18 decided to cut off completely for no reason.
This is like a death of a child. Difference is, they are only 30 miles away.
There is no way to have a normal anything with a Toxic Human
All humans are toxic
Truevthat
Wish i knew this 20 yrs ago, my daughter is now 35 and we been working on our relationship 6 yrs now. Her narcissist father warned me she would hate me as long as he was alive he now has discarded her completely bc she is grown up and lost control over her.
My mother alienated me and my ex alienated my daughter
It's generational. I had the same. When we're raised by NPD parent we're primed for gaslighting and align with the same disordered partner. It's protocol for narcs to need to win the kids. The ability to consider the effects on the child is simply not there.
This Dad had no contact from the start of the Court process by false allegations. As I look back I can see the children were being groomed at age 8 and on. Even before the Separation they were taught to damage or destroy any thing that was Dad's. After the Judge #22 cut the money tree down the attacks stopped and a year later my one son shows up Mad, Violent and Angry at Dad as to what happen to that tree. I explained it to him and off he went back to the Abuser. I had to bury my children as the thoughts were driving me crazy. Just take flowers to the cemetery and place on an open grave and pray for your children's souls. Most of them still live with the Abuser and their all in their 30's. Messed up minds and no way out as I was lucky enough to be let go by the criminal justice system and the Abuser with the children as her BF's.
It is unconscionable to have a throw your hands up and give up approach. It is clear neither hosts have experienced this grotesque form of family violence and child abuse. Children are SEVERELY injured. The trauma leads to physical brain injuries. When MPH are trained on this (as they already should be), it is clear that the child and parent need protection from the abusive parent.
I agree, but think there is a small window in which to act. If we (as alienated parents) can get the legal/social system to act aggressively and early with forced visitation and, more importantly, educating the child on brainwashing/alienating behaviors, then we stand a chance. If it’s too late though, as is often the case, then I truly believe that establishing a real relationship as an adult (with the alienated child) should be predicated on routine, standardized weekly or biweekly video chats or dinners so time can heal. Staying focused on TRUSTING God/Christ is paramount bc the most important aspect, above our own pain, is the long term mental health of our children…or they’ll NEVER sustain a trusting, loving marriage.
Unconscionable? My daughter in law asked me why I didn’t stay in touch with my son. I think she was astonished by my reaction. My jaw started to tremble. My sentences were broken. I could barely contain my emotions. (We were on an airplane and so it wasn’t private.) while trying to maintain a relationship with them, I was punished and given requirements/expectations by my son and his brother for visits. I wasn’t being allowed to be the adult. And they were given lots of attention when they could report back to dad (and grandma and grandpa who he lived with because he was a non-functioning adult). I was barely treading water. And I really became concerned about them becoming addicted to this “power” they had been given. I experimented with boundaries; but I was trampled and abused. I wasn’t helping them become responsible, and reasonable people. Their people they chose didn’t care about my sons and who they were becoming. Bullies to their own mother. After many years the son who was most abusive reached out to me. Upon encouragement from his own therapist. He had moved on but was angry at both parents. (Clueless still to what his grandparents and aunt contributed, though…. Gotta just let all that rest…. It was me against an army.) It’s better now. But the traditions that should have been aren’t there. It’s not what it could have been. And it’s been ten years since we started communicating again. I am grateful. But I still grieve over what could have been. Now he’s married and having his own kids and it’s about them. Which is pretty good considering how he could have landed. I am grateful he and his wife aren’t bombarded by interference. And I am cautious to not experiment with where the boundaries are.
Thank you for this. More education is needed on this topic which is widely misunderstood in the medical and legal fields which is unfortunate
I disagree about avoiding it. My X & I had disagreements upon divorce, & we were young & flawed, but we never spoke ill of each other in front of our child. It requires a personality disorder.
I'm here because I raised my Granddaughter for most of her life. Her Mother was found to be a unfit mother by 2 Navy Dr's, the Navy Brass, & a civilian Dr. Her Dad (my son), had to leave the Military & has primary custody.
HOW CAN YOU SAY IT'S NOT CHILD ABUSE?! My Granddaughter is no longer in school, she is cutting herself, vaping, & SUICIDAL! Before her Mom came back she had straight A's, tons of friends, was happy & stable, she's already abandoned the child once.
How is this not child abuse? I am not wanting to punish her Mom, but she has destroyed my beautiful brilliant Granddaughter who asked me how to fill out a form to go to Harvard when she was 10 & her Mom came back & she was desperate to get away! I had to explain she had to finish high school first. She said her friend was going to adopt her when she turned 17 (she was a yr older). She was very sad & I didn't know what was going on. She obviously felt trapped, I saw depression on her face for the first time since she was 3.
Next thing you know, she's informing she never lived with me! Which she did the majority of her life, 7 yrs I was her main caregiver, how confused she must be!
Her Mom has HIV & tells her she'll die if she leaves her, she never keeps her word, & took her out of therapy...she only has every other weekend visitation legally, & her boyfriend with AIDS sexually abused her at age 3! I had to get her tested, deal with that, deal with her abandonment issues of not letting me leave her sight, her confusion & terrible pain at being abandoned, & we were exceedingly close.
I don't even live near them now, but she isn't allowed to visit (without consequences)....how is any of this not child abuse?
Sometimes it’s because the other parent is a narcissist and the world revolves around them. They don’t give a thought about anybody’s needs except their own. And how it LOOKS. Gotta be the “virtuous” one. Doesn’t matter what goes on behind closed doors.
And it's always somebody's fault other than their own
This can also be done by childrens social services
How so?
Parental Alienation is body snatching. The Alienating parent steals the identity from the child. With that, that child's God-given mind and skills are muted or erased.
Thank you both for a candid and extremely helpful series. Many good lectures are out there, but the conversational format b/w professionals is very helpful.
I’ll send the link to former family members in the hopes (and prayers) that my daughter can see if this “fits” her personal situation. Not to lose the love of her mom, but to regain the love of her father, while also gaining understanding of her mom’s mental situation.
Hopefully, our daughter can right her own ship and not head down the inexorably destructive path of malignant mistrust…the underlying pathology.
Thanks again and God Bless you both🙏🙂❤️
The pain is one I didn't know existed. Death to my soul.
Does anyone ever address the child's guilt feelings??? Down deep they know the truth... does guilt and not being able to face the offended parent play a role in the continuing reason to avoid them? To punish and to gain the upper hand financially... the person who gets the kids most often gets the house.... they get support..... it has little to do with the kids.... and everything to do with the finances.
I remember one of the last times my husband spoke to his daughter. She was 16 years old. She was screaming at him, asking why he never visited her (she lived out of state) why he never went to any dance recital, why he never took her to school, why he never went to her sports games. She told him he wasn’t a father figure to her.
Her parents divorced in 1990, when she was 3. Her mother moved her and her older brother out of state when she was 6 and her brother was 9. Even though the ex remarried, (one of the reasons she moved out of state) it seemed like she never got over the divorce and her anger and hatred towards my husband got worse and worse with every passing year.
Everything mentioned in this series on PA, I can recall situations my husband went through.
PA is a HORRIBLE road to go down, live and deal with.
The solution is simple, if one parent wants parental alienation explored, then the court must be compelled to say, "yes, this needs to be explored." The judge must be compelled to issue a court order to get a therapist involved who has the proper expertise. The risk/reward of getting an expert mental health professional involved would be a HUGE win for the child and the alienated parent. Once it is determined that parental alienation is happening or approaching, therapy for all can begin. The alternative is do nothing which ensures trauma is passed to the child.
My husband went thru unimaginable HELL, He was sentenced to a life term of solitary confinement with no trial, no explanation, falsely accused, discarded like trash, and a real campaign of extermination. He will not risk his current life of happiness for his child. Is it even worth any efforts, after years of trying, empathic loving communication. Not sure he could stand any more rejection. She's just not worth it as he fears she is behaving just as immorally as her narcissitic mother.
How is it not a crime, when PAS is seen in the DSM-5 as child abuse. So, therefore; it is a crime. I have personally been dealing with PA for the past 3 years and it has ruined my life. I was a full-time, fully engaged parent for 6 years. I moved out of state to get a way from him and he recieved emergency custody to get her back and i have fought ever since, still not seeing my child. He has now broken every court order there is. I don't see her, I do not talk to her, he keeps moving without telling anyone. She has been in 4 different schools in 3 years. The step-mom emailed me and told me to disappear that she has a mother that loves her, and they have educated her to my issue's. Well, what issue's are those? You the step-mom is now a very concerning issue; telling me to disappear and that I an no longer the mother. Please, we go to court in 20 days; and finally its right there in the email. They want me to go away so they can play family. Yes, its beyond child abuse, its domestic violence as well.
Good discussion.
You guy's are pretty darn cool.
I'm in the midst of being alienated from my daughter... After nearly 5 years of court I was finally sharing custody and now for the past two months I have not been able to see her. This situation is murder to my sense of self and affects me in ways I'm not even aware of. I need help I'm struggling financially and mentally and emotionally and I have little support... Other than what I pay a therapist for and it's not enough... If I can be of any help in addressing these situations and providing insight into what the effects or be a part of the search for the solution is... I would be very grateful
The term you are looking for is blocked on facebook.
I “know someone” who is a stepmother. She was the target of the covert narc ex. Everything she did was twisted into something bad and scary and damaging. The bio-dad was depicted as neglecting to “protect” the children from the stepmother, who was in no way abusive. The alienation began as mild, progressed to moderate, and now, with the older child, it is severe. The false accusations, the emotional manipulation, and the use of the children as spies all contributed to the destruction of her attempt to blend two families. It is devastating to everyone.
God with us all! ❤️🤘✝️ I know lots of us are suffering still from “Parental Alienation”, it’s been two years now for me and I am still trying to fight to see my two teens
Where does it leave me...? His mission is to destroy my life and I have to admit, he succeeded. I always had my suspicions but never thought he was capable of something so sinister... until it was too late. Oh, dear God, help me through this torture...
Oh we were playing the game of who do you like better? I was alienated before the divorce. The alienation caused the divorce. He was very strategic and psychopathic. He blew up the family to destroy me.
Nice discussion, but face it - there is no way to prevent PA unless someone no longer breathes on this earth. You cannot CV o parent with a narc, there is only counter parenting. He let her go instead of tear her apart, naively thinking that when she grew up she would return to him. Not so- she is committed to rejecting him FOREVER!😢
How is putting the parent in jail wrong? It's child abuse. I don't want to hurt her mother, but I can't help her. She is abusing my Granddaughter who I have raised.
The children are being brainwashed. 🤔
@@SirNic4180 Fully agree
@@SirNic4180brain washed on top of microwave brain control actually..... and who knows what else
I have 50/50... Narcs gf told me i have no rights to my child on his time in 2019. fast foward to now: i still cant ask about my child. I beleive estrangemnt LEADS to alienation. I am the alienated parent.
Article links don't work.
I am going through parental alienation as my ex coached our children to boycott and reject me.
Why don't you just tell the children what's going on?!? I've been going through this for 12 years. I am told not to do anything about, just continue to be super dad (which I believe tears them apart even more). I would think that I would want to know if I were a child being alienated by someone with a mental health condition.
I feel like this to and want to educate my children about it but every other adult and authority in my life tells me to just be super mom which is getting me no where
Because the children are in their own realty, they would not believe you if you showed them. Believe me, i have tried this…after all what do you have to lose?
@@bwalsberg no I can't just watch me be alienated and my children harmed. I will try to fight back by having them say self affirmations like "I will honor God, my mother and father....I will have my own mind, my own likes, my own desires", etc. but I also agree with you guys in that actions are more powerful than any words a targeted parent may say; so concomitantly, I will continue to be the best parent I can be.
I waited until my son was 13 and 14 to say something. Everyone told me he was old enough to hear it. (Family, friends, colleagues)
But I asked a Family consultant, that reports to the courts. She said they still won't get it.
She was right and it backfired on me.
Do what?!
what if a parent ie the mum has been telling her daughter information from as early as 1 labeling the new partner as dad and that me her biological dad didnt wont anything to do with her? is this alienation or astrangement?
This is what has happened to me and now my daughter is 15 ive seen her like 3 times when she was little and nothing till not long before she turned 14.
i have had her over for weekends bi weekly for awhile but things have weirdly changed now the agreement between the mum and i keeping this going has just seemed to stop, daughter says she busy and gives vuage and short answers as to why shes not coming over anymore. her mum says its now up to her daughter if she wonts come over and stay or not. i also have a full time son in the house and they both get along very well.
I dont know how long this has been going on for but she suffers from depression, social anxiaty, has had trouble at schools and has been moved around from school to school several times, now home schooled by the mum.
daughter sleeps all the time and is awake late into early mornings, does not seem to eat alot, does not come out of her room alot, has some kind of social worker who takes her out once a week. i only know what i get told from the mum (she has said to me 'U getting told only what you need to know' ) and tidbits of information from my daughter.
I feer that her mum has been poisoning her for so long ill never have a decent relationship with her. I also feel like ive only been allowed to see her recently so i wont get angrey and take the mum to court long enough for my daughter to turn a minium age that makes her able to make her own decisions (even tho shes most likely been poisoned against me) and decide foe herself if she wonts to see me or not.
what should i do and is it to late to repear anydamage caused buy her mum?
your response for alienated parents is not strong enough. if the alienator is found to be alienating by tests that are at a reasonable cost or buy a psychologist that is told to intervene by the court, then fines and classes would be a good way to at least get started with the alienator. There are options for the court they just have to be mandated.
And never give up don’t tell parents to give up. A steady, loving stream of communication can help the child. Trust me, I know from 26 years of experience.