R-410A AC Unit, Checking the Charge with Subcooling, Undercharged through Overcharged!
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- čas přidán 3. 09. 2021
- In this HVAC Training Video, I Show How to Measure the R-410A Refrigerant Charge Level Using the Subcooling Method. I Check the Charge 4 Times on an Air Conditioner that has had Refrigerant Added or Recovered for each Scenario. I show a Severely Undercharged System, Slightly Undercharged, Correctly Charged, and Overcharged System. Supervision is needed by a licensed HVACR Tech while performing tasks as Experience and Apprenticeship garners Wisdom and Safety.
Tools Used In The Video
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⚠️ Disclaimer:
Information in this video is intended for educational purposes only. Any work related to the topics in this video should be performed by licensed technicians or by apprentices under the supervision of licensed technicians. AC Service Tech LLC is not responsible for any possible damages or injuries caused by the use or misuse of any information provided.
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#hvacr #hvacr #hvactrainingvideos #hvactraining #hvactraining101 #acservice #acservicetech #furnace #heat #subcooling #undercharged #overcharged #charge
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You have the best HVAC videos available. Hands Down.
Thank you so much Sandra!
Trust me, he doesn’t know what he’s talking about
Man, I agree! About the best videos👌
Why add refrigerant in low side as liquid if you mentioned in the beginning that if liquid refrigerant travels to low side can damage the compressor but than you said to add liquid trough vapor side ?
most understandable explanation compared to many technicians who try to complicate a simple process.
These are representatives of big money who willfully transfer wealth from shallow pockets to deep pockets through adjusting the levers of power. They create the economic cycles.
Now that is the genius of the few to force many into their desired places.
@@all2031 what are you smoking?
@Mike Spencer reality sauce composed of history, political economy, political sociology, political psychology, and religious politics.
This is the first place I go to when I need to get information quickly and precisely
Thank you for your HVAC video It helps the longest you watch and listen.
Thanks for your content per usual. You are appreciated. Be blessed
May The Lord Bless You too Ivan. Love the Icon!
awesome Craig!!!! thank you for sharing have a nice labor day weekend.
Glad you enjoyed it Jimmy!
Great info. Thank you Craig.
Thank you Brian!
Good job explaining.scenarios on overcharge..undercharge..superheat and subcooling.
Many techs.just go by metering device.( ex
.TXV..just check sub cooling), but superheat is neccesary as well.,for heat transfer as you memtioned..vice versa for piston orfice.
Need to check both always
Great job explaining Craig.
Absolutely, thanks Joseph!
This helped me so much. Thank you!
Great video,after 30 years doing this,I find I enjoy your videos. Where was CZcams back when all we used was paper,pencil,calculator and the amazing Polaroid camera. I thought I was on top of the world with my Polaroid back then Lmao 😂 fun times. Making calls inside stores to tech support was just awful awful awful,way too many trips onto the roofs. Techs now have no clue on how it was and how good and easy it is now
30 years of doing this?? He said 19 superheat and it’s low on charge??? You didn’t pick that up?
Good & fast explanation for anyone who's experimented with his girlfriends with whom he works on all the time.
Great hvacr information 👏 knowledge is always important
Absolutely! Knowledge is something that no one can take from you and you can continue to build on it to make yourself more valuable! Thanks!
Thank you Teacher Craig as Always 👍🙏
Excellent Video! Your videos are the best, Keep up the great work!
Thanks a lot Bob!
Excellent presentation! This video clearly explains why it is necessary to adjust the charge to get the subcooling close to the nameplate value. After obtaining proper subcooling then the TXV can be diagnosed and either adjusted or replaced to get an appropriate level of superheat in the evaporator.
Respect to you, you are the best. I just bought your books. Very helpful.
Awesome and please let me know what you think of them after reading!
@@acservicetechchannel very informative books and videos, thank you
Thanks for the video.
Great Video, thank you for sharing
Thank you for this wonderful video.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Great job, thank you brother. You are so talented
Glad you enjoyed it!
Wonderful video thank you ! I really appreciate the way you explain what you are doing and what is happening. The repetition and detail is really helping me :)
Absolutely, I agree, thanks!
@@acservicetechchannel great video sir! I just have 2 quick questions because I'm a bit confused, if I'm low on refrigerant will I have a low superheat or a high superheat? Also, if a have only a low side service valve can I still calculate the subcooling?
rule of thumb just keep low side on 125psi and high side on 350psi when it the indoor temp aroud 80F and outdoor around 95F after running about 30 mins, and use your hand to touch liquid line and you will feel it a little bit warmer . touch suction line feel it like in refrigerator. once you deal with ac enough u can use your hand to feel it. ac is very forgivable for level of charge. ( or you can try the factory charge method on the label, recovery all of that and charge the factory charge amount + extra length of line to factor in, the factor charge only cover 15ft lengh of line for the ac) subcooling and superhead is very useful when outdoor temp over 100 degree.
Thanks!
You are the best. Help me for sure❤
Excellent
Thanks Henry!
Thank you, thank you, I will always have the utmost respect for you, and wish you and your family all the best.
1)"" I hope you do a video with good details regarding symptoms of ( High Return Air Temperature ) passing through the evaporator .""
2)"" Low indoor air flow / and low Return air temperature symptoms .""
Thank you Hashim! Here are two videos that you may like on the subject- czcams.com/video/ob44e8fVhwk/video.html and czcams.com/video/wZctpvMtXMM/video.html thanks!
👍 Good instructions
Thanks Jeremy!
Thank you sensei
I was taught for r410 ….to have 20f difference between the outdoor temp and the highside temp..and 30-35f for r22…in Michigan
That was referred to as the ambient over 30 rule. It was an old rule of thumb used in the 90's for checking r-22 charges on 10 seer units. That will really depend on the seer rating such as ambient over 25 for 12 and 13 seer units. That was also when they primarily were equipped with pistons. Now we are more specific in charging with total superheat and subcooling, thanks!
Excellent video. Can anyone tell please what is the relationship of degree of "super heat" with "humidity"?
Thanks.
Your video is the best! . Question.. Do we need to remove shreded valve before charging ?
In the camera shot, the red gauge is on the right, while the liquid line is on the left.
The service ports are opposite the gages, so the red and blue hoses cross.
For a minute I got confused. I saw your "practice charging" video and figured it out.
Sorry, newb glitch.
Thank you so much for your videos. I'm new to the trade and your videos helps me alot. When measuring subcooling, does the ambient temperature affects that number? Let's say subcooling on nameplate is 6 with TXV in the condenser. Assuming no air flow issue. Would i get a different subcooling when its F 85⁰ out side vs 70⁰? Thanks again !!
thank you for these very informative videos. Can superheating and subcooling be used to determine the proper charge on an auto a/c?
First time I've ever heard it called Arefortenay! 🤣
Hi there, great video! I’m having an issue with my AC unit where my liquid line pressure keeps varying by about 4-5 sub cooling. So it’ll go to 5 and then back down to 0 or even negative. Is it some sign that the thermo valve is bad?
So what would you do if you couldn’t read the name plate and didn’t know the target subcooling. What would be your ‘go to’ sub cooling target be?
Thank you for sharing!! What is the best way to check system oil and how to add if it is low? Thank you again!!
The system should not be low on oil unless there was a dramatic amount of refrigerant recovered while using the systems compressor. If a recovery machine is used, it will not remove much oil in comparison. You would not be able to check an oil level on a system though, thanks!
Great explanation!! And I purchased the books on the description… but are you gonna make a book for Installation?
I am working on another book right now, everything takes a lot of time though! Thanks!
@@acservicetechchannel 😀👍
You did a great job showing hooking up the gauges as well as demonstrating the under and over charged conditions. However I noticed no attention was paid to proper procedure for disconnecting the gauges. Is there a specific method or order for taking the hoses off?
Hi all videos are helpful. Hoping to see about inverter controlled Airconditioning unit.
Philippines tech
Hello I need to no if vacuum pump oil pulling into the air conditioning system cause compressor compressor burn out
is it ok to have 13.5 subcooling on a 10 +- 2 Target? per manufacturer? Only slightly higher amps? Will it perform better in heatpump by having more freon? in the winder when the volume goes down due to the cold?
Hi, I sent you an email a few days ago about sponsoring your channel....
I sent an email back over Paul, thank you!
Where to find all the info and diagnostics on the electrical side of the systems
does it matter if outdoor temp is above acca standards, when it come to subcooling?
R410a 4 ton unit with TXV after adding 2 lb refrigerent Sub cooling is showing is - 6.1 recommended 8 by manufacture super heat is 25 which is recommended by manufacture, why subcooling is negetive pls advise
Hi Are there any similar videos for Automobile AC systems?
I have an issue and was hoping you can help. I have a 4 ton r410a heat pump with txv in air handler. In ac mode 85 ambient temp. Unit is cooling fine with 115 suction and 260 head and 78 hs temp so subcool is correct at 8 (7-9). shouldn't I have a much higher hi side reading?
thanks in advance.
Im a newbie and don’t understand the purging… how do you know when you’ve let out enough air?
If replacing evap coil is it always necessary to add oil, or does the compressor retain what it needs?
The issue is even if you try to tilt the old evap coil to see how much oil is in it, there are so many bends that you can't get it all out to measure how much. You certainly could add in what you are able to measure though. In most cases, the amount will not be that much if the evap coil is in a higher elevation than the outdoor unit.
Awesome explanation. Are the books still available ?
absolutely! at acservicetech.com/store
Was it necessary to purge air out of lines if you’re just checking the charge?
How does one do subcooling when theres no Liquid line port available?
What happens if the subcool is going up and down ? Liquid pressure moves up and down
What was ur ambient temperature outside
👍
Hi at the beginning of the video. system equalized. show outdoor temperature is 81F, which saturated pressure should be 239.4F, but Pressure gauge shown 215psi. so the system is low charged. refrigerator is super heat state. So system is under charged. Is it necessary to carry out further test? How we judge whether refrigerator inside cylinder is vapour or saturated.
If the sat temp does not line up with the actual temp and is much lower then either there is another refrigerant type in the unit or the unit lost about 7/8 of the full refrigerant charge, thanks!
This might sound strange but how about producing a video on charging a car air conditioning system? The auto industry's solution is to remove the entire charge, measure what was taken out and then charge on the deficit based on manufacturer levels. To do this you need a special machine. There has to be an easier way using a gauge set as is done with home A/C.
You don't need a special machine but do need a recovery machine and bottle. Thanks for letting me know what you would like to see!
Thank you for your quality videos.... can you answer me a question? I have an r410a heat pump system with a high suction pressure and a normal head pressure. 158suction and 335 loquid with a 9 degree sub cooling but only a 10 degree drop between return and supply... what do you think it could be?
What's your superheat
HI There,
I love your videos!
I have 2 questions, why does the tag for the TXV say "indoor sub cooling" when it controls "indoor super heat" ? It is just confusing to me. I understand the TXV targets a superheat delta T, but why wouldn't the tag say "outdoor sub cooling with proper charge" or something like that?
Also, I was wondering if your A/C quick reference charts have R-134a or R-1234yf refrigerant on them?
Never mind on the 2nd question, I found it in another one of your videos. P/T Chart for R-22, R-410A, R-407C, R422B (NU22B), and R438A (MO99)
Great video, should line length and lift chart be considered along with designed subcooling to determine final target value ?
Line length wouldnt change pressure or temp values, but having the wireless temperature clamps to fit to the indoor coil for a chiller or freezer might gain you a couple of degrees in temp, arguably the low side temp when read at the exit of the coil vs by the condensing unit wouldn’t be so far out that you’d begin adjusting refrigerant levels in itself, what i did to teach myself about making that judgement was to just take some suction temps over time using the same temperature clamp, the bigger influence is if the sun is directly on the copper line, where you just wait a bit longer to get a read that seems closer, rather that about 8 degrees hotter. Anyway most guys run slightly overcharged. But i came across a unit the other day undercharged on purpose, old system that keeps going out on high pressure, (surface area of the condenser is the issue i think, unless theres a problem in the accumulator also)…too much glide in the gas, not sure on the history behind this, but even undercharged, i still attended on a hot day to reset the high pressure, then i cleaned the condenser. Guess what im implying here is to be as sure as possible that you know why things are the way they are..
Cool video brother 💯👍 , on the straight cool piston system , ( Goodman ) I want to check it by Super heat correct , and about what am I looking for on a 410 , 2, 1/2 ton system ❓❓
Piston go by superheat, around 16-20 on Goodman. Honestly anything under 25 superheat is fine. Txv inside you’re looking for 10-12 max subcool
If it has a piston then yes check the charge using the total superheat method. Here are videos on that. czcams.com/video/sCIsw2FKC0M/video.html and czcams.com/video/qpXZhTRPIXc/video.html
You said indoor TXV subcooling. I know what you meant but young ones maybe not. Also if the condenser coil is dirty techs will always screw the charge up.
If you’re trying to release the air while the unit is running would you unscrew the hoses slightly where they connect to the manifold?
That’s against the law brother
@@billb3590 im referring to the process of purging the air before you fill the unit with refrigerant. He does it during the video while the unit is off. I wasn’t talking about venting refrigerant
my mr. cool universal 3ton units do not show a target sub-cool value on the cabinets. When I ask them what it should be, they tell me you should not evaluate charge based on this method and that you have to pull out the refrigerant and weigh it. I can't imagine going through that effort but it's what I'm being told. Soooo is there a way to determine what the target sub cool temp is through other means?
Not an HVAC tech. However, many of them say that, you need to check if your system has EEV instead of TXV or piston, if it is EEV then weighing in is the only option I believe. If you can, pull up installer's manual for your unit and it should have a target sub-cool value there.
I'm assuming your Mr.Cool is the inverter type system with TXV at the indoor coil (typical ducted system, like Bosch BOVA, if not, then this will not work [because of EEV that controls everything]), make sure you find the button/setting on how to FORCE the system to run at 100% capacity (unmodulated) before checking, otherwise you will not get the correct pressures/temps. Typically, sub-cooling of 10-11 degrees F' is OK.
@@stoptellingmewhattowrite You're quite correct. Indoor unit is a TXV and compressor unit has EEV and in the manual there are procedures via the control board to force the EEV open. I have the service manual for the unit too and I confirm there is no mention of target sub-cool. When I talk to them via email it's always the same, gotta weigh it or call a licensed HVAC tech. When my evap coil developed a leak, I paid $150 for a licensed HVAC to come "diagnose" it and all he did was hook up his gauges and pump in some R410A until the liquid line PSIG/TEMP read 43F. He never weighed how much was put in (then guessed and charged me 1lb). This was the only way Mr. Cool would honor their warranty. So now that I finally have a new evap coil and ready to install, I would like to dial in the system more accurately (if possible) without evacuating the entire system just so I can weigh the refrigerant. anyway... seems the industry is full of people who just wing it including the license "PROs".
how can the books reach me please
On Goodman units, they don't show the subcooling rating. What do you guys mostly go with for the charge when using a TXV
I was told by the local Goodman guy to set the subcooling 7 to 9.
@@JoseJB0 Thnx Bro
Depends on if its microchannel but if not then you can target 10 to 11, thanks!
What is micro channel
@@honesdalefuf6852 mostly nordyne uses them. It’s a smaller coil but way more ubends and coils in the evap. They’re honestly nothing but trouble
What if a unit is missing the Subcooling number, do we just measure wet and dry bulb and figure that way?
I like to target about 11 degrees, thanks!
No subcooling is done in the heat pump in ac mode. Unless txv is wide open but mostly determined by outdoor coil and charge
@@couldntcareless2602 I know that lol, thats not what I'm asking... I'm saying if the subcooling number is missing on the unit you can get that desired subcooling number by measuring wet-bulb and dry bulb, then that will give you what number of subcooling you are looking for.. I'm not asking how to calculate subcooling
@@aaronclark1599 oh now I get it 🤦♂️. 😂
10 is a good rule of thumb. There’s a calculator app for that and it uses all the refrigerants. Yeah it uses wet bulb and ambient
@@couldntcareless2602 lol, that's okay man I figured you just had my comment wrong lis all lol
0:35
10:50
“In order to fix the problem you have to recover the refrigerant….. pssst psssssssssst pssssst that should be enough”.
If r22 recovery then sell them a a 410 system 😢 Jk
I thought you couldn’t charge 410a as a vapor because it is a blend ?
You are definitely not supposed to charge 410 as a vapor. This guy does not know what he’s talking about. Always liquid with 410
R-410A must come out of the bottle as a liquid but we charge it slowly into the vapor side a little at a time to cause it to vaporize before it enters the vapor compressor, thanks!
@@acservicetechchannel it’s a blend so no you’re not supposed to do that. The gases have different weights
very nice manifold can be mine 🤣 🙏
I use the compound manifold for teaching but use the digitals and the test probes for service. Most new techs just have compound gauges though and want to teach what all the readings mean, thanks!
@@acservicetechchannel It's true that I'm a new technician so I haven't been able to read manifolds like that. if i may know how much is the price of such a manifold, maybe if i collect my money i will buy it 😁 🙏
Do time to go digital all the way Fieldpiece smans. And and a pair of flex Sacramento probes jl3rh
Psychrometer probe
I have them and use them. I typically use what students will have available in the classrooms, thanks for letting me know what you would like to see!
Little liquid won't hurt the compressor she'll be fine
Explain which side you add it into new guys screw that up all the time, through the suction side, SUCTION! It’s sucking, make sense….
☕🍺😎🍿👍🏻
Thanks!
Did anyone else hear him say Fortinay?
Did you say 19 degrees of superheat and it’s undercharged? Might wanna rephrase that
Yes 19 degrees of total superheat along with low subcooling = undercharged thanks!
@@acservicetechchannel that couldn’t be more incorrect. The numbers your showing shows a problem either with the metering unit or the indoor coil. You honestly have no idea what you’re talking about and shouldn’t be making HVAC content
@@acservicetechchannel either txv or piston 19 degrees of superheat is dead on. You have no idea what you’re talking about
If you have 33 degrees suction line sat temp (evap coil temp) you’re undercharged and you don’t need to check other readings to realize that. Also if you’re running analog gauges get you some rubber gauge protectors and bezels. How do you know if those gauges are even accurate? It doesn’t even look like you have a plastic bezel over them they could have gotten bumped or rubbed up against something. This is ridiculous. Also get you a tubing clamp. Matter of fact get you a good set of digital gauges. This may look legitimate to someone not in the trades but to me this looks like something a hack would do, like the type of person that just pulls vacuum through 1/4 inch hoses on that analog manifold and doesn’t run a micron gauge. Ole’ Chuck in the truck vibes hitting hard here.
I think these are video's for those who are just beginning to grasp the superheat and subcool concept.
The bezels are taken off solely for the videos so the viewer can read it better. I often use these compound gauges because that is what students in the classrooms and new techs will have available to work with. I use the digital SMA 380 and 460 pretty heavy as well but when I am teaching I often go back to the compound sets.
THANK YOU!! Glad someone else called him out. This guy has no idea what he’s talking about
Dude, get a 4 port manifold. I would be ashamed to show how to do this with those janky gauges.
丶
Good info, but he speaks too fast and lingo is too confusing, if it meant for training then it must have language flow. He is pro but not people who are learning.😮
Do you ever mix different freons together