We also offer a free podcast series - 'Après with SIA' The series addresses the good, the bad and the ugly of snow sports industry. Free, unedited opinions and advice from the worlds leading training academy for ski and snowboard instructors. Every week guests of all standards and experience will be joining us to discuss their views on subjects related to snow sports. Available now on Spotify and Apple Music (Links is video description)
fascinating ... been thinking more and more that exploiting the terrain and snow in aiding of turning is the way to go, like the virtual bump idea. Glad you reenforce the view that when one is skiing, it is ever changing, every second, even millisecond, everything is changing position to cope with the terrain and forces. Seems people think in terms of static ... need a measurement, a correct position ... but the measurement/position is always changing, every inch of the run. A good skier is one who is attuned to the changes and adjusts accordingly. i find exaggeration is a great tool in learning things. You get to really feel it.
Some of my trainers in Canada Use to have a fun way of referring to your topic on fore/aft balance as someone who is a "pressacholic": Been in recovery for over 25 years now. :)
Great video. To implement this idea in my own teaching is it possible to summerize it like this: the aim isn‘t to move forward as an end in itself. The aim is to be in an stable position on the centre of the ski at the vertex of the curve. I like the idea mentioned in a video of Tom: „Push the camber down“.
A few evenings later and a bit more thinking about all that stuff. I also have been teaching in the well-trodden paths. But the more information and background I get out of Tom’s and SIA’s videos and the more I understand what the structure behind all this is, the more I query my former principles. That’s my understanding: If I think of a turn to the left and a turn to the right - in the sense of a sinus curve downward the slope and an axis in it‘s centre - there are four segments: 1) down the bump until the fall line, 2) up the bump until the axis, 3) down the bump until the fall line, 4) up the bump until the axis. Most skiers learn to prepare for the curve change by staightening up and forward before reaching the axis - which means: while they move upward the virtual bump. Next step: Your definition of downunweighting is not in opposition to classic extended transition. It is just a matter of timing (what and when), adjusting the for/aft movement to the correct segment and where to relieve the pressure. So, back to the segments mentioned above: the extended transition with moving forward isn‘t eliminated, but it starts not until the point where the skier goes down the bump and moves the weight forward again. Of course this also means, that the weight starts to move back again after the fall line - in the meaning of going upwards again. And so on... What I really like is the description here: czcams.com/video/6sdEFYz7i2g/video.html Thanks for all this. Great approaches to be a better skier (and teacher) after Corona 👍😉 (I am at Level 1 DSLV and want to reach Level 2 next year)
@@dasalpengluhen1747 Skiing isn't this hard to understand and do. Read my comment, go to my channel and read all my comments at my videos. There shouldn't be any questions because I don't use any meaningless and complicated words.
This is dynamic and requires a frame of reference. For example, if considering the relationship between CoG and feet in a direction perpendicular to the fall line, being "back" in the transition between turns becomes usable "inclination" in the middle of the subsequent turn. The CoG takes the more direct line down the hill. A dollar sign $ is a simple representation of this relationship.
You guys mentioned the ski shape dictates the shape of the turn. Obviously a more hourglass shape of the ski will allow a shorter turn because reverse camber is really bending the ski. However, there is one area of the ski which is completely different for a recreational ski versus a racing ski. Namely this is the tailpiece or the last 5 cm of the ski. A rounded tail on a recreational ski will release a turn much easier versus a squared tail on a race ski. The ramp in the tail is different as well. Why the difference? Namely that a squared tail on a race will lock you into a carve versus a skid at the very end tail. A racer will bend the ski much more than a recreational skier through out the turn, whereas a recreational skier will make a skidded (muddied) turn. The racer will use the squared tail to lock the turn into a carve, building energy throughout the turn and use the energy to rebound (an over used term) to push the skis into a float stage to start the new turn. If done correctly the ski accelerate forward and the tips can lift off the snow into the float stage between turns. Why then not use a squared tail on a recreational ski to get an intermediate to carve? This is because the intermediate skier will find a ski that is very difficult to release into a new turn. Also lateral stiffness on a race ski generally is less stiff at the tip versus a much stiffer tail. The recreational ski will also have a more even bend through out the turn. Not only does a squared tail make sound technique more necessary, but in crud conditions it is really difficult to ski well, because the race ski tail is fighting the "chunks" in crud snow to release for a new turn. That is why a powder/crud ski doesn't have a squared tail. Also an overly sharp last few centimeters of the tail will make the ski very difficult to release the turn. Expert skiers may round the edge on the very end of the tail with sandpaper, whereas a less gifted skier may need to use a file to dull the very end of the tail.
watch linus strasser s.l. advancing outsaide ski hip insaide ski hipback to advance outsaide hip ski droping insaide hip down to recenter to flat ski loading tails and rebounding outsaide ski accelerate down hill reverse hips steeting
Nice video! Am I understanding it that by over-doing the vertical movement, you avoided overloading your students with information but still attained the same result? Meaning instead of giving them a tonne of information about the alpine basic position, correcting the upper body/lower body, etc., you simply utilize a movement that leads to the same result as all these other information would (potentially) lead to? Thus creating a smooth, nicely balanced turn where you dont push the outer ski too much leading to potential skidding?
@@SIAAustria would you recommend using it with groups of kids over the duration of one week? And with private lessons? Or do you need a substantial amount of time for it to work?
By all means give it a go, however make sure that they don't end up in the back seat the whole time as a result of it. It's something that needs to be understood as well as just done. In terms of ammount of time that's totally dependant up on your client, an athletic and body aware client may pick it up very quickly, others not so quickly.
Except he does none of those things. He points out parts of the body and what they look and feel like and calls that teaching. That is just the end result of what he Isn't telling them.
Shape of a slalom ski is: tail:104 cm, tip:118 cm. For instance. Tip width > tail width...skis are somewhat Y shape, not X ok? That is why when edges are tipped, engaged, if you apply a torque forward with your boots (main axis is your heel) to the tip of your ski, you will oversteer, bend your skis more. That is why you will see BIG ankle flexion at apex (external ski). We call that being forward. You should be forward from begining of the turn to apex. But remember one thing: at apex you are forward on your external ski but backward on your internal one. So when you go from foot to foot you have to go forward to cover your new external ski.
Hey Mr Magnificent, where exactly do you define the “apex” of a ski turn and WHAT is happening at the “Apex. Tell me something are YOU applying forward pressure on the ski boot or is the ski boot applying pressure to your shin BECAUSE the ski is following an arc?. There is a VERY important difference here
Think about this Mechanically, put your ski boot on and click into your skiis in the living room. Now bend the boot. You are NOT applying any pressure to ski shovel, you would have to LEAN WAy forward OVER the ski tips lifting the tails of your skiis off the ground before ANY pressure in applyed to shovels. So what your saying is PURE NONSENSE
@@mieshavonedellestein1304 let's say apex is when full pressure. You are right there is no "muscular" pressure here . The only forces are external: weight and inertial (centrifugal because of the arc) forces. But just because your external ankle is flexed you applly automatically a torque of force on the shovel IF AND ONLY IF your position is forward. The concepts of torque and force are different things. Torque means 2 things: 1 force and 1 axis or point (here your heel). At the beginning of the turn the effect of the torque on the shovel is much more efficient since there is no inertial force yet.
Henry Lorain's Memory Power Ridiculous Exaggerations. Outside... observers are confused... meanwhile inside the bubble a secret society of function understands nature?
"Virtual bump"= inertial reference frame... an actual thing momentum is carried through, not virtual at all... it is falling... avalement.... just like the French said... damn it they were right!
Willie Scheffler 1955 Arlberg technique from St Anton/ Arlberg Pass... "The New Way to Skii" retitled in USA "Ski The New Austrian Way" is my skiing DNA. Dad gave me that book to read when I was 5 because he took both my older brothers skiing at timberline leaving me behind... I still feel the resentment of being left behind but I studied that books pictures and when I finally learned to read it took a long time before I was ever interested enough to understand it at all. None the less it was ingrained in my memory patterns and the progression I expected was severely crippled by the emerging Torance of cancer in PSIA-W w/Finlay.... forbidden bump skiing advice for Henry Kravis...purged discussions of Ron LeMasters doctored photos of Herman Maier in the epicski.com hottub.. ICON... pandemic euthanasia... planned mortality... not me I plan staying as high as possible in the sky denying frame dragging bringing me down in to the big pile of stuff.
Viktor Schauberger, Nazi esoteric propulsion designer, naturalist, studied water vortex flow in streams and waterfalls determining migratory fish use eddy fence currents exploiting exclusion zone water to create linear acceleration/ dynamic counterbary to leap waterfalls inspiring the "repulsine" drive powering the Hanubu series that so much frightened admiral Byrd during "Operation High Jump". understanding nature is fun.
Forget Aft!!! There is No Aft in skiing. There is only In the Middle of the ski and Forward and down the hill. If you use the word Aft, people will think about sitting back. If you are sitting back your skis will not turn. There is being balanced on the arch of your Uphill/Outside/Downhill arch or pressing your knees down the hill along with your entire upper body which will load the tips even further. This is very simple and it would help students if you would focus on what you need to do to allow the skis to turn instead of talking about what parts of the body look and feel like. During a turn you need to be balanced on the arch of your outside and then downhill arch. You face your upper body in the General Direction of Travel. In a slalom turn, that is straight down the hill. In a GS turn, that is across the hill but you still lean your upper body down the hill to maintain balance on that outside arch. NOW! When you want to start a new turn from a GS turn, you have to stop the lateral movement of your upper body across the hill and put it back in the fall line as you get off your downhill arch and balance on your uphill arch. You do that this way. 1. You turn your face and look down the hill where you want to go. 2. Point your hands and chest down the hill. 3. You rotate your pelvis and kneecaps down the hill as you get off your downhill arch and balance on your uphill arch. With your upper body leaning and falling down the hill as your feet continue across the hill, your legs will immediately lay over so your uphill ski is on the inside edge. As the skis start to turn, your upper body will hang over the tips of your skis so they bend and the unweighted tails will slide around behind you. Now to address this Aft business. When your skis have finished the turn with you hanging over the tips, you stop the travel of your body across the hill as the skis continue across the hill. You will feel the pressure against the tongue of your boot diminish but that is Not sitting back, that is your body heading down the hill instead of across it. The Up movements they showed later in the video are NOT Up movements they are Down The Hill movements. They just aren't showing it clearly. 37:00 Now look for what I said in this clip. He is balanced on his left arch. He is facing across the hill. When he wants to start a new turn, watch his body stop while his skis continue across the hill. Notice he is looking and then leaning down the hill as he gets off his left foot. Notice the leg angle change. The upper body positioning! That is what starts and maintains a turn. You allow your skis to turn by where you put your upper body and when you change your weight from the downhill to the uphill arch.
I agree to your comment. Just two things: "Forget Aft!!! There is No Aft in skiing. There is only In the Middle of the ski and Forward and down the hill." To keep the middle position you have to move slightly backward after the fall line. I agree, we have to be careful with the term "aft", because lots of skiers may exaggerate it. But lots of advanced skiers try to move forward from a position, where the COM is on the tips already because they have been told "forward, forward, forward" - and not "smoothly back" at the end of the turn. And this is frustrating, because these skiers react by starting to move even more forward even earlier. "With your upper body leaning and falling down the hill " I don´t like this explanation concerning "leaning and falling down the hill", because it suggests that the upper body should move forward. I know what you mean. But by explaining it like this some skiers might fold the upper body down on the thights, which automatically moves the COM to the inside ski.
@@dasalpengluhen1747 I'll be happy to explain my points in more detail. First, the Fore and Aft positioning of your upper body. (From your Pelvis up.) Your comment, "To keep the middle position you have to move slightly backward after the fall line." It "Feels" like you are going backwards at the point where your skis are passing under you when you stop the lateral travel of your body across the hill to start a new turn, but this is what is actually happening. 7:20 He is balanced on his right foot with his knees forward and his hip into the hill which leans his legs into the hill so the skis are rolled over onto the inside edges and he is balanced on his right arch. When he wants to start a new turn, he stops the travel of his pelvis across the hill and throws it down the hill. At that moment his skis pass under him and it will feel like you are sitting back when you are actually falling down the hill. You have to forget the Feeling and concentrate on the Pelvic movement. If an Instructor teaches the feeling of sitting back, the student will do just that and won't think about moving the pelvis down the hill which is what rolls the skis over. 7:24 He has stopped his body from crossing the slope. That is where the "Feeling" of sitting back occurs. He is changing his weight from his right to his left foot and is starting to lean and face his upper body down the hill which lays the legs over in the other direction so the skis roll over. You decide when you want to turn and then move your hips in that direction as you change your weight. Your upper body position, weight change, momentum, gravity and the ski design are what make a turn. In THAT order! What happens to the skis comes Last not First like the worlds' instructors would have you think. Now for your concerns in my description of Leaning your upper body down the hill and having students interpret that as bending at the waste. Keep in mind I never say to bend at the waste. Students need to take my instruction at face value and not assume it must mean something else. That's why I tell my students to forget everything they have ever heard before as it will cloud their minds. Most of what is taught world wide is wrong and confusing. The upper body is from your pelvis up. It is a separate part from your lower body which is from your legs down. You stand up in your boots ion a comfortable position and that's it. Now you have your upper body and your lower body. When you lean your upper body down the hill, everything goes with it equally with no bending at the waste. Skiing is standing up in a comfortable position while rocking your hips to the right and left while changing your weight in the middle. Forget where the skis are going and only think where your hips are going. 7:20 Here again. Forget where his skis are going, watch what he does with his pelvis and just keep his skis in your peripheral vision. His pelvis direction down the hill and then to the side is making his legs lean over and the weight change from his downhill to uphill foot is what makes the skis turn. He keeps his upper body as vertical as possible while this is happening. Watch his upper body stop between turns. His pelvis is leaning up the hill and then down the hill. Everything happens from your mind and eyes Down, not from your feet Up.
@@dasalpengluhen1747 I just found your comment again, but I didn't read my response because I want to give you a clear and fresh response which shouldn't change what I said but will give you a different perspective of it. The more times you refine your position, the clearer it gets. You have the opportunity to rethink and streamline your teaching method. Re-inventing the wheel until it is perfect. If an instructor focusses on individual words or phrases like "Forward, back, tipping the knees, roll the ankles over, etc., they will not be teaching the student what to do with their bodies to create those movements and will leave out the most important things. All those things are the byproducts of doing other things that the world's instructors don't teach and focus on. Here's an example which will show the difference between focusing on what is needed and how those byproducts are created and why they can't stand alone. This is what you think about in the progression of making a new parallel turn and this is what you tell your students. 1. At the completion of a left turn on your right foot, you look ahead and down the hill to find the location of the new turn. You rotate your upper body slightly to face down the hill as you plant your pole down the hill. This stops the travel of your upper body across the hill with your skis and starts the leg angle change which will roll the skis over onto the new edges. 2. As your skis pass under you, you take your weight and balance off your right foot and stand on your left foot. You instantly lose the balance you had on your right foot, so you start to fall down the hill like a tree with a wedge cut in it. This increases the new leg angle and takes it down the hill which rolls the skis over onto the new wedges. The skis will instantly start the new turn with that weight change and with you balancing on that left arch. The skis will turn under you and arrest your fall down the hill. Not one of these words and phrases were used in that description because they are all byproducts and don't teach you how to ski on their own. Transition Extension Flexion Roll your ankles to edge the skis (Which is anatomically impossible even without ski boots locking them in position for only forward and back bending.) Tip your knees to the side to get on edge. (Another thing that is anatomically impossible. The knees Rotate with the upper body facing down the hill.) Center of mass Separation I could come up with more but my point nis made. Those things happen during a turn, but they don't allow your skis to make correct turns on their own. A driving instructor will focus on what you are required to do to make your car turn. Lift off the accelerator, tap the brakes, signal the turn and rotate the steering wheel. They aren't going to tell you about the movements of the steering shaft, steering rack, push rods, uprights or the suspension. To put it in an even simpler term and analogy, you are standing on the right pedal of your bicycle with your hands on the handlebars. Point the front tire down the hill and get off the right pedal and balance on the left pedal. Everything I said previously will happen with that analogy because of momentum, gravity and the design of the ski. K.I.S.S Keep It Simple Stupid! A picture a student can relate to replaces a thousand meaningless words. Want to make carved turns? You have stools on either side of you. You want to rest your cheek on the stools one after the other. To the right, take your weight off your right foot, lift your right cheek and slide it onto the edge of the right stool. Lifting your cheek forces your upper body to stay vertical while sliding your cheek over creates a steep leg angle. The more you slide it, the steeper the angle. No lean or ankle leaning required. You think about turning from your eyes down, not from your feet up. The last thing to happen is the ski and foot turning.
Oh my god, YOUR listening to Gellie. Why do you even consider for and aft pressure? Just STAY in the middle of the ski. Here is how USELESS discussing FOR and AFT pressure is: 1) the ski has camber, which automatically puts pressure on the Tip and Tail of ski when you stand on the ski. 2) the ski has side cut, tip a ski on its edge. Do you notice how there is light showing through the Waist of ski, (the area under the ski boot) now press on the ski until the whole edge of ski is in contact with the ground. Just observing this will tell you that there is AUTOMATICALLY MORE pressure on the ground by the TiP and TAIL. So talking about For/ Aft pressure is just rubbish. You can’t apply MORE pressure by leaning forward or pressing on the front of ski boot. This is nothing but cliche bullshit.
it is always great to hear contrasting views and opinions and to remain open minded about opinions that you do not necessarily agree with. Maybe if you think about how you walk, run, jump or cut it will help you to understand the biomechanics and physical advantage of fore and aft movement. Meanwhile been centred is great as subliminally you are moving fore and aft anyway. Thanks for having different views and keeping me thinking.
@@vladochiflidzhanov5045 Vlado your a rather theatrically clever orator. your honest but unfortunately mistaken belief/understanding of Alpine skiing mechanics REEKS of FALLACY.
@@vladochiflidzhanov5045 hey Vlad buddy obviously it does matter what i think, TO YOU. Otherwise you wouldnt write to me. Now im pretty confident in my knowledge about skiing mechanics, and i have the education to back up what I say also I have my credentials awarded by my Ski Organization. So for you to assume my comprehension of Gellies SHiT video is poor only shows your ignorance
We also offer a free podcast series - 'Après with SIA'
The series addresses the good, the bad and the ugly of snow sports industry. Free, unedited opinions and advice from the worlds leading training academy for ski and snowboard instructors. Every week guests of all standards and experience will be joining us to discuss their views on subjects related to snow sports.
Available now on Spotify and Apple Music (Links is video description)
"Tunnel concept" = inertial reference frame... "momentum is intentionally directed through free fall".
I watched this series a million times this season. It helps me a lot! Thank you so much for providing such a great ski lecture!
Love this - have watched also a million times and feel like I’ve made a change even tho we’re not on snow!! Exiting stuff every day! Thank you.
fascinating ... been thinking more and more that exploiting the terrain and snow in aiding of turning is the way to go, like the virtual bump idea. Glad you reenforce the view that when one is skiing, it is ever changing, every second, even millisecond, everything is changing position to cope with the terrain and forces. Seems people think in terms of static ... need a measurement, a correct position ... but the measurement/position is always changing, every inch of the run. A good skier is one who is attuned to the changes and adjusts accordingly. i find exaggeration is a great tool in learning things. You get to really feel it.
Some of my trainers in Canada Use to have a fun way of referring to your topic on fore/aft balance as someone who is a "pressacholic": Been in recovery for over 25 years now. :)
Thanks for this video! Very analytical and helpful!
Thanks for the feedback
Interesting vid, I’m going to try some of these drills with my athletes :)
Thx Tom for Joubert's legacy. The actual thing is that Joubert observed the young Patrick Russel skiing who "invented" avalement by himself :)
Great video. To implement this idea in my own teaching is it possible to summerize it like this: the aim isn‘t to move forward as an end in itself. The aim is to be in an stable position on the centre of the ski at the vertex of the curve. I like the idea mentioned in a video of Tom: „Push the camber down“.
A few evenings later and a bit more thinking about all that stuff. I also have been teaching in the well-trodden paths. But the more information and background I get out of Tom’s and SIA’s videos and the more I understand what the structure behind all this is, the more I query my former principles.
That’s my understanding: If I think of a turn to the left and a turn to the right - in the sense of a sinus curve downward the slope and an axis in it‘s centre - there are four segments: 1) down the bump until the fall line, 2) up the bump until the axis, 3) down the bump until the fall line, 4) up the bump until the axis. Most skiers learn to prepare for the curve change by staightening up and forward before reaching the axis - which means: while they move upward the virtual bump. Next step: Your definition of downunweighting is not in opposition to classic extended transition. It is just a matter of timing (what and when), adjusting the for/aft movement to the correct segment and where to relieve the pressure. So, back to the segments mentioned above: the extended transition with moving forward isn‘t eliminated, but it starts not until the point where the skier goes down the bump and moves the weight forward again. Of course this also means, that the weight starts to move back again after the fall line - in the meaning of going upwards again. And so on...
What I really like is the description here: czcams.com/video/6sdEFYz7i2g/video.html
Thanks for all this. Great approaches to be a better skier (and teacher) after Corona 👍😉 (I am at Level 1 DSLV and want to reach Level 2 next year)
@@dasalpengluhen1747 Skiing isn't this hard to understand and do. Read my comment, go to my channel and read all my comments at my videos. There shouldn't be any questions because I don't use any meaningless and complicated words.
@@JB91710 Thank you. That‘s what I already do 😉👍 Great descriptions and information.
This is dynamic and requires a frame of reference.
For example, if considering the relationship between CoG and feet in a direction perpendicular to the fall line, being "back" in the transition between turns becomes usable "inclination" in the middle of the subsequent turn. The CoG takes the more direct line down the hill. A dollar sign $ is a simple representation of this relationship.
You guys mentioned the ski shape dictates the shape of the turn. Obviously a more hourglass shape of the ski will allow a shorter turn because reverse camber is really bending the ski. However, there is one area of the ski which is completely different for a recreational ski versus a racing ski. Namely this is the tailpiece or the last 5 cm of the ski. A rounded tail on a recreational ski will release a turn much easier versus a squared tail on a race ski. The ramp in the tail is different as well. Why the difference? Namely that a squared tail on a race will lock you into a carve versus a skid at the very end tail. A racer will bend the ski much more than a recreational skier through out the turn, whereas a recreational skier will make a skidded (muddied) turn. The racer will use the squared tail to lock the turn into a carve, building energy throughout the turn and use the energy to rebound (an over used term) to push the skis into a float stage to start the new turn. If done correctly the ski accelerate forward and the tips can lift off the snow into the float stage between turns. Why then not use a squared tail on a recreational ski to get an intermediate to carve? This is because the intermediate skier will find a ski that is very difficult to release into a new turn. Also lateral stiffness on a race ski generally is less stiff at the tip versus a much stiffer tail. The recreational ski will also have a more even bend through out the turn.
Not only does a squared tail make sound technique more necessary, but in crud conditions it is really difficult to ski well, because the race ski tail is fighting the "chunks" in crud snow to release for a new turn. That is why a powder/crud ski doesn't have a squared tail. Also an overly sharp last few centimeters of the tail will make the ski very difficult to release the turn. Expert skiers may round the edge on the very end of the tail with sandpaper, whereas a less gifted skier may need to use a file to dull the very end of the tail.
watch linus strasser s.l. advancing outsaide ski hip insaide ski hipback to advance outsaide hip ski droping insaide hip down to recenter to flat ski loading tails and rebounding outsaide ski accelerate down hill reverse hips steeting
Nice video!
Am I understanding it that by over-doing the vertical movement, you avoided overloading your students with information but still attained the same result? Meaning instead of giving them a tonne of information about the alpine basic position, correcting the upper body/lower body, etc., you simply utilize a movement that leads to the same result as all these other information would (potentially) lead to? Thus creating a smooth, nicely balanced turn where you dont push the outer ski too much leading to potential skidding?
Sounds like you have got it ;)
@@SIAAustria would you recommend using it with groups of kids over the duration of one week? And with private lessons? Or do you need a substantial amount of time for it to work?
By all means give it a go, however make sure that they don't end up in the back seat the whole time as a result of it. It's something that needs to be understood as well as just done. In terms of ammount of time that's totally dependant up on your client, an athletic and body aware client may pick it up very quickly, others not so quickly.
@@thelasseholmOne week camp plan= drills for skill daily focus rotary, pressure, edging, blending, terrain, course applications repeat cycle... refresh often, Practice at slowest speed to master skills faster... then... RELEASE THE HOUNDS!.
With regard to he "how", my son, Jonathan Ballou, always says, "tell them what, then why, then how."
Except he does none of those things. He points out parts of the body and what they look and feel like and calls that teaching. That is just the end result of what he Isn't telling them.
Your son is very famous:)
@@luvski2007 only because of his presentation, not his actual teaching ability.
‘Miss-interpretated” eh?…. Is that a Misses of some sort?… or am I misinterpreting?….
Shape of a slalom ski is: tail:104 cm, tip:118 cm. For instance.
Tip width > tail width...skis are somewhat Y shape, not X ok?
That is why when edges are tipped, engaged, if you apply a torque forward with your boots (main axis is your heel) to the tip of your ski, you will oversteer, bend your skis more. That is why you will see BIG ankle flexion at apex (external ski). We call that being forward. You should be forward from begining of the turn to apex. But remember one thing: at apex you are forward on your external ski but backward on your internal one. So when you go from foot to foot you have to go forward to cover your new external ski.
Hey Mr Magnificent, where exactly do you define the “apex” of a ski turn and WHAT is happening at the “Apex. Tell me something are YOU applying forward pressure on the ski boot or is the ski boot applying pressure to your shin BECAUSE the ski is following an arc?. There is a VERY important difference here
Mr magnificent, did you think this up yourself or have you heard this from someone else
Think about this Mechanically, put your ski boot on and click into your skiis in the living room. Now bend the boot. You are NOT applying any pressure to ski shovel, you would have to LEAN WAy forward OVER the ski tips lifting the tails of your skiis off the ground before ANY pressure in applyed to shovels. So what your saying is PURE NONSENSE
@@mieshavonedellestein1304 let's say apex is when full pressure. You are right there is no "muscular" pressure here . The only forces are external: weight and inertial (centrifugal because of the arc) forces. But just because your external ankle is flexed you applly automatically a torque of force on the shovel IF AND ONLY IF your position is forward. The concepts of torque and force are different things. Torque means 2 things: 1 force and 1 axis or point (here your heel).
At the beginning of the turn the effect of the torque on the shovel is much more efficient since there is no inertial force yet.
@@mieshavonedellestein1304 I read it from French Federation papers :). "the shovel is oversteering!"
Henry Lorain's Memory Power Ridiculous Exaggerations. Outside... observers are confused... meanwhile inside the bubble a secret society of function understands nature?
"Virtual bump"= inertial reference frame... an actual thing momentum is carried through, not virtual at all... it is falling... avalement.... just like the French said... damn it they were right!
Willie Scheffler 1955 Arlberg technique from St Anton/ Arlberg Pass... "The New Way to Skii" retitled in USA "Ski The New Austrian Way" is my skiing DNA. Dad gave me that book to read when I was 5 because he took both my older brothers skiing at timberline leaving me behind... I still feel the resentment of being left behind but I studied that books pictures and when I finally learned to read it took a long time before I was ever interested enough to understand it at all. None the less it was ingrained in my memory patterns and the progression I expected was severely crippled by the emerging Torance of cancer in PSIA-W w/Finlay.... forbidden bump skiing advice for Henry Kravis...purged discussions of Ron LeMasters doctored photos of Herman Maier in the epicski.com hottub.. ICON... pandemic euthanasia... planned mortality... not me I plan staying as high as possible in the sky denying frame dragging bringing me down in to the big pile of stuff.
Viktor Schauberger, Nazi esoteric propulsion designer, naturalist, studied water vortex flow in streams and waterfalls determining migratory fish use eddy fence currents exploiting exclusion zone water to create linear acceleration/ dynamic counterbary to leap waterfalls inspiring the "repulsine" drive powering the Hanubu series that so much frightened admiral Byrd during "Operation High Jump". understanding nature is fun.
Your movement analysis. video from Timberline Mt Hood/ Palmer glacier... is where I work as a ski instructor.
snowboarders learn fore and aft straight away with falling leaf exercise
Forget Aft!!! There is No Aft in skiing. There is only In the Middle of the ski and Forward and down the hill. If you use the word Aft, people will think about sitting back. If you are sitting back your skis will not turn. There is being balanced on the arch of your Uphill/Outside/Downhill arch or pressing your knees down the hill along with your entire upper body which will load the tips even further.
This is very simple and it would help students if you would focus on what you need to do to allow the skis to turn instead of talking about what parts of the body look and feel like.
During a turn you need to be balanced on the arch of your outside and then downhill arch. You face your upper body in the General Direction of Travel. In a slalom turn, that is straight down the hill. In a GS turn, that is across the hill but you still lean your upper body down the hill to maintain balance on that outside arch. NOW! When you want to start a new turn from a GS turn, you have to stop the lateral movement of your upper body across the hill and put it back in the fall line as you get off your downhill arch and balance on your uphill arch. You do that this way.
1. You turn your face and look down the hill where you want to go.
2. Point your hands and chest down the hill.
3. You rotate your pelvis and kneecaps down the hill as you get off your downhill arch and balance on your uphill arch.
With your upper body leaning and falling down the hill as your feet continue across the hill, your legs will immediately lay over so your uphill ski is on the inside edge. As the skis start to turn, your upper body will hang over the tips of your skis so they bend and the unweighted tails will slide around behind you.
Now to address this Aft business. When your skis have finished the turn with you hanging over the tips, you stop the travel of your body across the hill as the skis continue across the hill. You will feel the pressure against the tongue of your boot diminish but that is Not sitting back, that is your body heading down the hill instead of across it. The Up movements they showed later in the video are NOT Up movements they are Down The Hill movements. They just aren't showing it clearly.
37:00 Now look for what I said in this clip. He is balanced on his left arch. He is facing across the hill. When he wants to start a new turn, watch his body stop while his skis continue across the hill. Notice he is looking and then leaning down the hill as he gets off his left foot. Notice the leg angle change. The upper body positioning! That is what starts and maintains a turn. You allow your skis to turn by where you put your upper body and when you change your weight from the downhill to the uphill arch.
I agree to your comment. Just two things:
"Forget Aft!!! There is No Aft in skiing. There is only In the Middle of the ski and Forward and down the hill." To keep the middle position you have to move slightly backward after the fall line. I agree, we have to be careful with the term "aft", because lots of skiers may exaggerate it. But lots of advanced skiers try to move forward from a position, where the COM is on the tips already because they have been told "forward, forward, forward" - and not "smoothly back" at the end of the turn. And this is frustrating, because these skiers react by starting to move even more forward even earlier.
"With your upper body leaning and falling down the hill " I don´t like this explanation concerning "leaning and falling down the hill", because it suggests that the upper body should move forward. I know what you mean. But by explaining it like this some skiers might fold the upper body down on the thights, which automatically moves the COM to the inside ski.
@@dasalpengluhen1747 I'll be happy to explain my points in more detail.
First, the Fore and Aft positioning of your upper body. (From your Pelvis up.) Your comment, "To keep the middle position you have to move slightly backward after the fall line." It "Feels" like you are going backwards at the point where your skis are passing under you when you stop the lateral travel of your body across the hill to start a new turn, but this is what is actually happening.
7:20 He is balanced on his right foot with his knees forward and his hip into the hill which leans his legs into the hill so the skis are rolled over onto the inside edges and he is balanced on his right arch. When he wants to start a new turn, he stops the travel of his pelvis across the hill and throws it down the hill. At that moment his skis pass under him and it will feel like you are sitting back when you are actually falling down the hill. You have to forget the Feeling and concentrate on the Pelvic movement. If an Instructor teaches the feeling of sitting back, the student will do just that and won't think about moving the pelvis down the hill which is what rolls the skis over.
7:24 He has stopped his body from crossing the slope. That is where the "Feeling" of sitting back occurs. He is changing his weight from his right to his left foot and is starting to lean and face his upper body down the hill which lays the legs over in the other direction so the skis roll over. You decide when you want to turn and then move your hips in that direction as you change your weight.
Your upper body position, weight change, momentum, gravity and the ski design are what make a turn. In THAT order! What happens to the skis comes Last not First like the worlds' instructors would have you think.
Now for your concerns in my description of Leaning your upper body down the hill and having students interpret that as bending at the waste. Keep in mind I never say to bend at the waste. Students need to take my instruction at face value and not assume it must mean something else. That's why I tell my students to forget everything they have ever heard before as it will cloud their minds. Most of what is taught world wide is wrong and confusing.
The upper body is from your pelvis up. It is a separate part from your lower body which is from your legs down. You stand up in your boots ion a comfortable position and that's it. Now you have your upper body and your lower body. When you lean your upper body down the hill, everything goes with it equally with no bending at the waste. Skiing is standing up in a comfortable position while rocking your hips to the right and left while changing your weight in the middle. Forget where the skis are going and only think where your hips are going.
7:20 Here again. Forget where his skis are going, watch what he does with his pelvis and just keep his skis in your peripheral vision. His pelvis direction down the hill and then to the side is making his legs lean over and the weight change from his downhill to uphill foot is what makes the skis turn. He keeps his upper body as vertical as possible while this is happening. Watch his upper body stop between turns. His pelvis is leaning up the hill and then down the hill. Everything happens from your mind and eyes Down, not from your feet Up.
@@dasalpengluhen1747 I just found your comment again, but I didn't read my response because I want to give you a clear and fresh response which shouldn't change what I said but will give you a different perspective of it. The more times you refine your position, the clearer it gets. You have the opportunity to rethink and streamline your teaching method. Re-inventing the wheel until it is perfect.
If an instructor focusses on individual words or phrases like "Forward, back, tipping the knees, roll the ankles over, etc., they will not be teaching the student what to do with their bodies to create those movements and will leave out the most important things. All those things are the byproducts of doing other things that the world's instructors don't teach and focus on. Here's an example which will show the difference between focusing on what is needed and how those byproducts are created and why they can't stand alone.
This is what you think about in the progression of making a new parallel turn and this is what you tell your students.
1. At the completion of a left turn on your right foot, you look ahead and down the hill to find the location of the new turn. You rotate your upper body slightly to face down the hill as you plant your pole down the hill. This stops the travel of your upper body across the hill with your skis and starts the leg angle change which will roll the skis over onto the new edges.
2. As your skis pass under you, you take your weight and balance off your right foot and stand on your left foot. You instantly lose the balance you had on your right foot, so you start to fall down the hill like a tree with a wedge cut in it. This increases the new leg angle and takes it down the hill which rolls the skis over onto the new wedges. The skis will instantly start the new turn with that weight change and with you balancing on that left arch. The skis will turn under you and arrest your fall down the hill.
Not one of these words and phrases were used in that description because they are all byproducts and don't teach you how to ski on their own.
Transition
Extension
Flexion
Roll your ankles to edge the skis (Which is anatomically impossible even without ski boots locking them in position for only forward and back bending.)
Tip your knees to the side to get on edge. (Another thing that is anatomically impossible. The knees Rotate with the upper body facing down the hill.)
Center of mass
Separation
I could come up with more but my point nis made. Those things happen during a turn, but they don't allow your skis to make correct turns on their own. A driving instructor will focus on what you are required to do to make your car turn. Lift off the accelerator, tap the brakes, signal the turn and rotate the steering wheel. They aren't going to tell you about the movements of the steering shaft, steering rack, push rods, uprights or the suspension.
To put it in an even simpler term and analogy, you are standing on the right pedal of your bicycle with your hands on the handlebars. Point the front tire down the hill and get off the right pedal and balance on the left pedal. Everything I said previously will happen with that analogy because of momentum, gravity and the design of the ski.
K.I.S.S Keep It Simple Stupid! A picture a student can relate to replaces a thousand meaningless words.
Want to make carved turns? You have stools on either side of you. You want to rest your cheek on the stools one after the other. To the right, take your weight off your right foot, lift your right cheek and slide it onto the edge of the right stool. Lifting your cheek forces your upper body to stay vertical while sliding your cheek over creates a steep leg angle. The more you slide it, the steeper the angle. No lean or ankle leaning required.
You think about turning from your eyes down, not from your feet up. The last thing to happen is the ski and foot turning.
Oh my god, YOUR listening to Gellie. Why do you even consider for and aft pressure? Just STAY in the middle of the ski. Here is how USELESS discussing FOR and AFT pressure is: 1) the ski has camber, which automatically puts pressure on the Tip and Tail of ski when you stand on the ski. 2) the ski has side cut, tip a ski on its edge. Do you notice how there is light showing through the Waist of ski, (the area under the ski boot) now press on the ski until the whole edge of ski is in contact with the ground. Just observing this will tell you that there is AUTOMATICALLY MORE pressure on the ground by the TiP and TAIL. So talking about For/ Aft pressure is just rubbish. You can’t apply MORE pressure by leaning forward or pressing on the front of ski boot. This is nothing but cliche bullshit.
it is always great to hear contrasting views and opinions and to remain open minded about opinions that you do not necessarily agree with. Maybe if you think about how you walk, run, jump or cut it will help you to understand the biomechanics and physical advantage of fore and aft movement. Meanwhile been centred is great as subliminally you are moving fore and aft anyway. Thanks for having different views and keeping me thinking.
Probably never heard about front side carving either…missing out…
@@vladochiflidzhanov5045 Vlado your a rather theatrically clever orator. your honest but unfortunately mistaken belief/understanding of Alpine skiing mechanics REEKS of FALLACY.
@@vladochiflidzhanov5045 hey Vlad buddy obviously it does matter what i think, TO YOU. Otherwise you wouldnt write to me. Now im pretty confident in my knowledge about skiing mechanics, and i have the education to back up what I say also I have my credentials awarded by my Ski Organization. So for you to assume my comprehension of Gellies SHiT video is poor only shows your ignorance
@@vladochiflidzhanov5045 thanks for the clarification
Way over contrived skiing. Hip dumping. What's with the airplane arms?😂😂