A great explanation of how ZF works. I think it would still be good to break a film on how to change the oil (step by step) in this type of suspension.
Thanks for the video! I just changed the seals on my dad's Sachs forks. I didn't take the cartridges out so was curious to see what they looked like inside. I converted my XPLOR 48 to traditional OC forks with adjustable base valves, new mid valves, and removing the holes in the compression side cartridge body. It's definitely better now. Might be a little more difficult to do this mod on the Sach forks due to the nature of the vent holes on the compression side.
Race tech's fork valving kit for Sachs zf forks uses a metal ring that blocks the holes on the cartridge tube, new adjustable base valves, and a mid / rebound valve.
Thanks for a great video! Questions... It appears there is no adjustable bleed on the base valves, is there a fixed bleed? Will the Lainer adjustable base valves work on a non-modified Sachs SFF OC Beta fork? Or do you need to do the full conversion (to convert the top adjusters to rebound)? I'm looking to add some low speed compression support and am otherwise happy with my fork so I thought adding the adjusters might be a good step?
Having ZF forks on my bike I was eager for the video to release, and this was well worth my wait. Thank you for the excellent video Luis. Now this raises the following question, are standard forks (having both compression and rebound in each leg) are actually harder to keep in tune?
@@StepstoPodium Harder in the sense that all components in a standard fork set are duplicate, both forks need to be setup identically to work in perfect unison. My unprofessional view, I might be way off
Oh ok! Yes, indeed you have double the work to tune a suspension, but a good practice is that both legs are always the same, no matter what. It gives more work, but on the other hand, if one of the legs looses damping, you have the other one that can still provide it (as opposed to the SFF). It's aaaaalways a compromise in the suspension world 😅😂
Interesting stuff. Where are you from? I am from Germany and I am a full suspension bike nerd. I have also lots of two stroke stuff done in the past. I own some dynos and if you like we can measure some shocks and forks.
I believe it's a similar design as WP Xplor 48 open cartridge forks. One of the down side aside from the adjustability is that the cavitation is more severe. So it's only good for slow trail riding...
True indeed! Overall it's similar and it differs on the midspeed valve, which there's a "cone" valve. But yeah, it's a technology that has limitations, but comes with upside! They're incredibally simple in their construction which makes maintenance a lot easier and cheaper :)
Olá! Tenho uma Beta Racing 2017 Podias dar um dica para colocar a suspensão mais mole? O antigo dono gostava delas mais rijas, Sabes como coloco o Cliques no Standard ?
Olá! Sim, tens apenas que rodar para a esquerda (desapertar) o ajuste do lado que tem o ajuste de pré-carga, cerca de 10 clicks (se tiveres10 clicks para desapertar do modo que está). Isso já terá um grande impacto na compressão. Se isso não resolver, poderás ter que ver se não há algo de errado. Uma revisão não seria má ideia!
@@StepstoPodium Vou ter que pedir um orçamento ao Engenheiro Peixoto para me fazer a revisao 😝 Gostava de ver uma review tua a nova RR300 com duas velas 🤝
Thanks for a great video Luis. What are your thoughts on the single preload adjuster on the compression leg? Also the rather large preload spacer on the rebound leg?
On the rebound leg, don't need to mess with it. About the compression side, do you ride with much weight or are you little over the weight range? Those would be the only times I would mess with the preload adjuster 💪
@@StepstoPodium Hi Luis, thank you for your response. I don't mess with it as I have never found a need to. I just think having different preloads on each side is strange.
I feel you! It's definitely not what we're used to see, but again, it's a fairly different design, so things don't necessairly have to be the same as the tradicional design 😊
Oooh ok! You are right, there is only one mid-speed valve, so less oil being used for damping, but it's no problem as long as you don't start having cavitation. These forks will for sure not be ideal for motocross, for example, but as long as you don't have cavitation, there's no problem in having just one fork leg for compression. This design is quite nice for manufacturers because it's cheaper to manufacture, but obviously is not as flexible in terms of use as a traditional open cartridge fork.
So if low speed compression seems too harsh and clicker position seems to make no difference would running lighter viscosity fluid in the compression leg help this?
Thank you! I've been quite surprised actually! They perform really well on pretty much everything except jumps. In the mean time I revalved them to better handle jumps and provide more bottoming resistance, and have become quite a catch 😄
@@StepstoPodium for bottoming resistance and jumping, can you give us shim stack formation? Add , remove which shims? i feel the same thing , got a 2022 250rr with zf forks.
Can you tell me how to choose the correct spring for these? I get the same "race" sag ie spring compression while sitting, with the stock springs as I do with much heavier springs.
@@StepstoPodium I put a zip tie around the inner tube. When I sit on bike the wiper seal moves the zip tie down. I then jack the bike up to get front wheel off ground and measure the distance from the wiper seal to the zip tie. Ive done this with two sets of springs now , same clicker setting, oil viscosity, same preload. The bike is practically brand new so maybe there is a lot of friction?
@@StepstoPodium Ok I now think the zip tie wasnt sliding like I thought. Had wifey place tape at wiper when I sat /stood on bike. Got more sag this time but only 65mm with stock springs. Do these ZF Sachs SFF have less sag than other forks? At 300mm total travel I would expect 25% sag, ie 75mm. At my weight charts show I need much higher spring rate but that will result in less fork race sag.
Hello! It should be. I think they only changed the color of the outside anodizing to have the same color as the KYB 😛 I guess they might have done some minor valving changes just to say they have "updated" the MY, but besides that, it should be the same
Olá, sabes dizer se existe algum tipo de purgador de ar "air bleder" compatível com essas suspensões, ter que andar sempre no aperta/desperta nos parafusos é uma treta..👍👍
@@StepstoPodium Venha o diabo e escolha entre purgador e desapertar/apertar, é que o parafuso do ar tb não é a coisa mais resistente, foi contenção de custos, fazer parafuso pequeno para poupar🤪😁👍
I'll be happy to share this illustration and video with lots of people in my motorcycle shop. Thank you so much
Thank you sharing! 🙏🙌
I read the video notes and I am anxious for the video to premier 🔥
Glad to know it!! It took me some time to do, but it ended up great 💪
A great explanation of how ZF works. I think it would still be good to break a film on how to change the oil (step by step) in this type of suspension.
Thanks for the video! I just changed the seals on my dad's Sachs forks. I didn't take the cartridges out so was curious to see what they looked like inside. I converted my XPLOR 48 to traditional OC forks with adjustable base valves, new mid valves, and removing the holes in the compression side cartridge body. It's definitely better now. Might be a little more difficult to do this mod on the Sach forks due to the nature of the vent holes on the compression side.
These are really simple forks so don't be afraid to take them apart :)
Glad I could help!
Race tech's fork valving kit for Sachs zf forks uses a metal ring that blocks the holes on the cartridge tube, new adjustable base valves, and a mid / rebound valve.
@@charliecerrillos Thanks! Had not seen the Racetech sleeve. Might be a good option for him.
Fantastic Work!!!!
Thaaank you!!!
Thanks for the vid, new to Beta and Sachs Suspension.
Top content has always!! 💪
Thank you so much Nuno!! Cheers!!
Thanks for a great video! Questions... It appears there is no adjustable bleed on the base valves, is there a fixed bleed? Will the Lainer adjustable base valves work on a non-modified Sachs SFF OC Beta fork? Or do you need to do the full conversion (to convert the top adjusters to rebound)? I'm looking to add some low speed compression support and am otherwise happy with my fork so I thought adding the adjusters might be a good step?
Having ZF forks on my bike I was eager for the video to release, and this was well worth my wait. Thank you for the excellent video Luis. Now this raises the following question, are standard forks (having both compression and rebound in each leg) are actually harder to keep in tune?
Thank you Ariel!!
How so, harder to keep in tune? Regarding the adjusters?
@@StepstoPodium Harder in the sense that all components in a standard fork set are duplicate, both forks need to be setup identically to work in perfect unison. My unprofessional view, I might be way off
Oh ok! Yes, indeed you have double the work to tune a suspension, but a good practice is that both legs are always the same, no matter what. It gives more work, but on the other hand, if one of the legs looses damping, you have the other one that can still provide it (as opposed to the SFF). It's aaaaalways a compromise in the suspension world 😅😂
@@AntiStressKit it wouldn't be ideal to set them differently, but the OC concept wouldn't work if both needed to be the same.
Interesting stuff. Where are you from? I am from Germany and I am a full suspension bike nerd. I have also lots of two stroke stuff done in the past. I own some dynos and if you like we can measure some shocks and forks.
Thank you! I'm from Portugal 💪
Thank you for your informative videos. What is the difference between the Explore and the Sachs SSF?
The Xplor don't have a mid-speed valve, they have the cone "valve" 🙃
I believe it's a similar design as WP Xplor 48 open cartridge forks. One of the down side aside from the adjustability is that the cavitation is more severe. So it's only good for slow trail riding...
True indeed! Overall it's similar and it differs on the midspeed valve, which there's a "cone" valve. But yeah, it's a technology that has limitations, but comes with upside! They're incredibally simple in their construction which makes maintenance a lot easier and cheaper :)
Thanks for the great video. Do you know if there’s a big difference between the 2019 ZF forks and the 22/23 ZF forks on the Beta 300rr’s cheers man.
If they’re the Sff forks, i don't think so. Perhaps valving but nothing much besides that
@@StepstoPodium Understood - thanks for the reply man, much appreciated
I can tell you my '20 is disappointing.
@@lmcc8798 yeah, I had a go on a 21 rr and it was ok - I ended up buying a racing with KYB.
Olá! Tenho uma Beta Racing 2017
Podias dar um dica para colocar a suspensão mais mole?
O antigo dono gostava delas mais rijas,
Sabes como coloco o Cliques no Standard ?
Olá!
Sim, tens apenas que rodar para a esquerda (desapertar) o ajuste do lado que tem o ajuste de pré-carga, cerca de 10 clicks (se tiveres10 clicks para desapertar do modo que está). Isso já terá um grande impacto na compressão. Se isso não resolver, poderás ter que ver se não há algo de errado. Uma revisão não seria má ideia!
@@StepstoPodium Vou ter que pedir um orçamento ao Engenheiro Peixoto para me fazer a revisao 😝
Gostava de ver uma review tua a nova RR300 com duas velas 🤝
@PikaScf eheh quando quiseres! Manda email para o stepstopodium@gmail.com e falamos por lá sobre o orçamento :)
Tbm eu gostava de por as mãos!
Thanks for a great video Luis. What are your thoughts on the single preload adjuster on the compression leg? Also the rather large preload spacer on the rebound leg?
On the rebound leg, don't need to mess with it. About the compression side, do you ride with much weight or are you little over the weight range? Those would be the only times I would mess with the preload adjuster 💪
@@StepstoPodium Hi Luis, thank you for your response. I don't mess with it as I have never found a need to. I just think having different preloads on each side is strange.
I feel you! It's definitely not what we're used to see, but again, it's a fairly different design, so things don't necessairly have to be the same as the tradicional design 😊
@@StepstoPodium Thanks Luis. Agreed.
Hi there, thanks for your amazing videos. Can I ask, is there any problem due to less oil flowing ?
Hello Daniel! Thank you!!
Where do you think there's less oil flowing?
@@StepstoPodium through the mid valve there is only one mid valve offering dampening
Oooh ok! You are right, there is only one mid-speed valve, so less oil being used for damping, but it's no problem as long as you don't start having cavitation. These forks will for sure not be ideal for motocross, for example, but as long as you don't have cavitation, there's no problem in having just one fork leg for compression. This design is quite nice for manufacturers because it's cheaper to manufacture, but obviously is not as flexible in terms of use as a traditional open cartridge fork.
So if low speed compression seems too harsh and clicker position seems to make no difference would running lighter viscosity fluid in the compression leg help this?
Noooo, never change the oil viscosity. 5w all the time. You have to revalve the suspensions💪
@@StepstoPodium I think I should have dropped the extra grand for the race edition with Kayaba
Most people have to revalve them as well because they are waaayyy to firm from factory 😂
Consegues explicar como se regula a suspensão?
Ja tenho um vídeo a explicar como se regulam os ajustes 💪
Great video! I have never ridden on Sachs forks, how do you like them for enduro riding?
Thank you! I've been quite surprised actually! They perform really well on pretty much everything except jumps. In the mean time I revalved them to better handle jumps and provide more bottoming resistance, and have become quite a catch 😄
@@StepstoPodium any videos of revalving ?
You have an offroad engineered video just about valving 😉
@@StepstoPodium for bottoming resistance and jumping, can you give us shim stack formation? Add , remove which shims? i feel the same thing , got a 2022 250rr with zf forks.
I'm sorry but I can't disclose that information 😛
Can you tell me how to choose the correct spring for these? I get the same "race" sag ie spring compression while sitting, with the stock springs as I do with much heavier springs.
I honestly don't believe in that, it's impossible for different rate springs to provide the same SAG 😅 how are you mesuring the SAG?
@@StepstoPodium I put a zip tie around the inner tube. When I sit on bike the wiper seal moves the zip tie down. I then jack the bike up to get front wheel off ground and measure the distance from the wiper seal to the zip tie. Ive done this with two sets of springs now , same clicker setting, oil viscosity, same preload. The bike is practically brand new so maybe there is a lot of friction?
@@StepstoPodium Ok I now think the zip tie wasnt sliding like I thought. Had wifey place tape at wiper when I sat /stood on bike. Got more sag this time but only 65mm with stock springs. Do these ZF Sachs SFF have less sag than other forks? At 300mm total travel I would expect 25% sag, ie 75mm. At my weight charts show I need much higher spring rate but that will result in less fork race sag.
That's a possibility, yeah!
You can have between 60 and 75mm of front fork sag :)
Hi, is this the same fork like the 2023?
🙌
Hello! It should be. I think they only changed the color of the outside anodizing to have the same color as the KYB 😛 I guess they might have done some minor valving changes just to say they have "updated" the MY, but besides that, it should be the same
Thanks for the , but yes or no would help. 🤣
@@StepstoPodium Yes, that's what I thought too. Thanks
Olá, sabes dizer se existe algum tipo de purgador de ar "air bleder" compatível com essas suspensões, ter que andar sempre no aperta/desperta nos parafusos é uma treta..👍👍
É uma treta mas é o sistema mais fiavel! Quantos já ouvi a dizer que os purgadores comecam a deixar sair oleo 😅
@@StepstoPodium Venha o diabo e escolha entre purgador e desapertar/apertar, é que o parafuso do ar tb não é a coisa mais resistente, foi contenção de custos, fazer parafuso pequeno para poupar🤪😁👍
Isso é um parafuso em aluminio, não é um parafuso de apertar a roda do carro, calma!! 🤣
🇧🇷🇧🇷👏🤘
This should have been answered in one word: "poorly."
don't agree