How to Tie a Figure-8, Threaded Figure-8 and Figure-8 on a Bight - ITS Knot of the Week HD
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- čas přidán 23. 08. 2015
- Today, we're continuing our Knot of the Week HD series with the Figure-Eight Knot and other variations.
For more about these knots, check out our article here: bit.ly/1JvMwnc
Great video this is awesome information about the ropes i would like to know more please🤠
Very helpful. Thanks for great video.
When tying the 8, keep the working end as the middle cross section, not on top. Under a heavy load it will be much easier to untie.
It will also minimize the amount of knot roll and deformation.
Did some climbing, WAY back, didn't much care for it. So my comment will be from another perspective. As an old time backpacker and small boat sailor.
I was taught, as were we all, that if you wanted a line to hang things from, just fix one end, put in a bunch of loops with overhand knots, and belay the other end. Lots of uses for this, drying clothes, hanging washed cook wear, etc. Then it rains and the overhand knots are wet under strain in the thunderstorm until all the clothes or pots and pans blow off. Now, how easy are those overhand knots to untie?
Fast forward to learning to sail. Stopper knots are very useful to stop your various lines from pulling through the block and tackle arrangements we use to control sails, raise sails, etc. Simple overhand knots are often used here. Then you mainsail gets away from you and hits the stopper know full force (it's probably wet, too if the sail got away) Good luck getting your overhand knot loose. Did I mention that the stuff sailors use for sheets is very expensive line? We really don't like having to cut it loose.
Then someone showed me a figure 8 knot. Holy mother of solutions. Never looked back. All those loops on the hanging line? Figure 8's. Stopper knots on the boat(s)? Same. Often we add another loop then pull the working end through it all. Doesn't matter how much strain those knots get hit with, you can get them loose easily.
I am practicing the Alpine Butterfly Loop right now to use on hanging lines, easier to untie. Can't think of a use for that on a sailboat, which is probably why I have never seen it.
If a knot can't be undone easily, I am pretty much not interested in learning it. Again, I don't see any good reason to climb a vertical wall when I would much rather be sailing anyway. Just my $0.02 from a different point of view.
Great demo. The contrast of the black table, the rope with the overhead camera angle was well done. Thx.
As soon as I see someone clipping a biner into the hard points you just lost your cred. Rope goes through hard points, metal goes through the belay loupe. Please read manufacturers instructions. The reason you don’t put a biner the rough the hard points of a harness is because of cross loading potential.
I would agree out of principle. However, if you needed to use this in an emergency or something it should be mostly safe. Most cross load ratings on those locking biners are around 8-10 kN, well above what a hard fall would produce (around 4kN) and certainly less than forces while repelling. What is more dangerous in my opinion is the potential for the rope to unhook the biner lock in a triaxial loading scenario. Unless you are using a triple locking biner it will always have the potential of failure - and why take the risk when the hardpoints and the belay loop is already there. I can see needing to use a biner if you are on a bight (in an emergency), but even then it should be in the belay loop. Just tie in, its so much simpler.
The stopper knot should be butted down against the rewoven figure eight which should be no more than a two finger gap from the harness..
Always tie directly into the harness!!!
Awesome! It’s been a while and I needed a reminder. Thanks a lot!
Nice video! Very understanding and clear English
Bridgeport, CA MWTC flashbacks! great info.
Thank you
The only reason you don't clip a biner through both loops on your harness, instead of using the belay loop as is the safest way, is because clipping a biner through the waste and leg loop of a harness cross loads the carabiner. You'll put pressure from multiple angles instead of putting all the force through the spine as it should be. Clipping the belay loop on a harness allows all of the force on the carabiner to be directed into the spine therefore maximising the potential strength of the biner. Otherwise you take a 24kn biner and drop its strength rating down to say 8 or 10 because you're cross loading it. A rope is different because it doesn't have a spine.
I agree with Matt
Also if you clip carabiner in a belay loop, you can have the biner turned sideways and still get cross-loading. Clipping to a belay loop does not remove the risk completely. Normally it loads in the direction of spine though.
You're not dressing any of your knots to show the actual complete version... which is sort of important.... you leave them all lose and prone to error without showing a proper finished knot and how to get there.
I noticed the same. In some situation undressed figure 8 can be dangerous. For instructional purpose it helps to show the shape but it should be dressed properly to show what it looks like ready to use instead of the loose middle step.
Figure 8 on the sharp end is critical to have tight. If it’s not, it could come undone. This dude shouldn’t be instructing anyone.
you should not clip a biner into two lopps on the harness:
1. because the belay loop is designed for that purpose
2. because you create tri-axial loading, which the carabiner is less strong in, you actually weaken your connection
I hate seeing improper instruction in CZcams with climbing. He’s also not dressing or tightening his knots which is dangerous.
It was all he had at the time.
@@richardgee9434 What are you talking about? The belay loop was right there for him to properly clip into.
For work I had to learn the threaded figure-8(figure-8 follow through) and the figure-8 on a bight as well as the double figure-8 on a bight, but the regular figure-8 is new to me. Great video thank you.
P.S. dynamic kernmantal rope does stretch 2%-3%
+warpfire037 Thanks! Glad you enjoyed the video walk through. ~ Bryan
+warpfire037 static rope might stretch 2-3% but dynamic rope is VERY different, don't get the 2 mixed up!
Zach Fleming Sorry I got them mixed up, thank you for correcting me.
Great video thanks !
This is how a former fire fighter friend of mine when I was on the Fire Dept retrieved his brothers body from an abandoned mine shaft in secret.
Oh and thanks for the video. Emergency escape and climbing out of buildings that have collapsed is rope work please keep a couple hundred feet handy.
OK, you tied this knot very well, good job.
However, that is a barrel Knott, a double fisherman's knot would be 2 of those back to back joining 2 lines.
Just yesterday I've learned about a figure 9 knot which an extension of the figure 8 knot and is less stressing for the rope.
have you ever used 1/2" arborist climb line
It is never acceptable to clip both anchor points on the harness. Furthermore a situation where I need to anchor onto a rope but can't access the working end is extremely rare. The only situation I can think of is as a backup while cleaning the anchors of a route but still tied in. Regardless you should always clip your belay loop, it's designed for dynamic weight (that's why you belay off of it rather than clipping both). Depending on the shape (pare or oval) the strength of a carabiner will reduce to at best 60% of its strength and at worst 40% when it's cross loaded. I appreciate the videos. I would avoid sharing personal recommendations unless you've done the research to back it.
15 years of indoor/outdoor rock/ice climbing
Trad and multi-pitch climber for 8 years
Employed to train beginner climbers and certify experienced lead climbers
I like the idea of double caribiner loops...
Great demo as always!
Mark
Cheers Mate!
In these videos of knots, never assume that people are experienced, you always make sure you show the final clipping of a harness to the double figure eight, cuz most amateurs will assume that each one of the ears on the double figure 8 can be clipped into separately !!!
Do climbers ever use a Double Alpine Butterfly Loop (i.e. ABB with 2 separate loops from the one knot)? It looks like it should be as reliable as the single loop but just wondering, as I am a knot guy - not a climber.
im not familiar with this knot so ill have to same, not very often though generally there is some functional usage you can apply to most knots in specific circumstances
we do use the regular alpine butterfly tho
A common way to join two lines is by using double fisherman's knots just like you do to secure the lines after the joining figure 8. So what does the figure 8 contribute with in that case if you can accomplish the same thing without it?
Wasting a ton of rope length is what it does. Double fisherman’s on climbing diameter, triple on cordalette.
@@zraybroske2416 thanks
Ok I do not have a harness but I can make one from a bowline on a bite. Then I would need a chest strap out of rope. Use two pressic knots for my feet to climb. I would use a buggy cord for the second pressic knot to bring it a long.
My understanding is that almost no one does a back up knot on the threaded figure eight on the harness, it's just over kill. Any updates on that?
Thanks -- Good way to know how to work with rope!
Oh hi Marc
Great vid man thanks
5:10
For this the figure 8 is not for!
Therefore you better use an alpine butterfly because it does not really affect the breaking strengh of the rope plus it is designed to be stressed into the 3 directions you've showed plus its easier to be undone afterwards.
plus you're not dressing the figure 8 so that the rope is crossing which weakens the breaking strengh of it...
These were literally the two points I wanted to adress as well😂 Well said! Dressing a knot properly has a BIG impact on the durability. It is very important to get these points correct when posting an instructional!! Other people watch this to follow the advice and posting less than proper instructions can seriously compromise someone else safety on the ropes =(
basically you just tied a barrel knot with a figure 8 in the middle.
LOL at 8:13 you say back this up. when a retraced figure of eight knot fails your backup is useless due to the nature of how a figure of eight fails. The knot pinches out the working strand and then that will just pull right through your "back up knot".
I think that is called prusec
Cakepppp
nothing worse than a demo that uses your hands, and talking with your hands, moving them about, caressing, patting and stroking the rope and knots aimlessly.
Restarting knots, having the rope ends off camera, not using two different colored ropes, geez.
Difficult to watch.
the amount of times he takes his hands of the rope in the beginning is maniacal also the knot doesnt even work
Ok
No carabiners.
Interesting..but messy on that first one. Easier and better knots to use. ..carrick bend
This guy is a dude!
its a coc
You didn't tie your figure 8 bend correctly. You go round the outside of the line you're following when retracing the knot. Both are safe but this is prevents twists and the knot is loaded on the correct strand (not the tail end as in the knots you tied).
Awesome! It’s been a while and I needed a reminder. Thanks a lot!