He said here his father wasn't anti-semitic; he said elsewhere that his father used to watch the credits on television muttering, "There's another one. And another one," meaning Jews.
Anyone who puts "criticism of Islam" and "racist" in the same sentence needs to be called an idiot. You should never continue talking to someone who is *that* stupid.
+Grammar Nazi This can be classed with that even more common error of referring to jihadists as Islamo-fascists. In both cases, the critic is attempting to associate his enemy with the deepest well of human evil: the Nazis, who were both racist and fascist. Of course, no intelligent critic of Islam is primarily interested in the deficiencies of Muslim races--since all races have some Muslims. Islamo-fascism was a dubious appellation from the beginning. Those who most closely met the clearest meaning of the term were people like Saddam and Assad--who are not jihadists and do their best to suppress jihadists in their own lands. Fascists have at least five commonalities: they are nationalists, martially inclined, anti-communist, anti-liberal, highly hierarchical/organized. Racism is actually not a key to fascism--it is thought to be only because the most famous fascist regime was racist. The jihadists deviate crucially from fascism: they are not especially hierarchical and they believe in the caliphate--which is an anti-nationalist conception. A better epithet for them would be Islamo-communists. They are third world revolutionaries who attract the sympathy of progressive Westerners. But the clearest description of the reality, though less catchy, is idealists of theocratic totalitarianism. They are merely idealists because they are merely failures. Even the theocracy in Iran was not established through jihadism. Jihadi rule is rarely established and never lasts.
+Grammar Nazi Correct , I've gone blue in the face and dumbed it down as much as possible to no avail, some people are too stupid and beyond critical thought
This vicious insanity is hiding behind the name of religion and we have to careful not to say things that might offend these sensitive, sacred psychopaths, who are inseparable from their vile ideology
Ryan Ortega Given the manner in which most children are indoctrinated, the danger involved in questioning any of it, the penalty demanded for apostacy, the Child Genital Mutilation, the stultification of enforced memorization of the rubbish in old arabic, quran, Having to go to prayers 5 times a day Enforced fasting,until life threatening for pregnant women during Ramadan the laws prohibiting bacon,beer,music,art.etc The laws concerning women, driving, or being allowed out in public unaccompanied or uncovered, being Capitally guilty as rape victims, or "Honour"killed by their families, Denied education, Shot for going to school, Being trapped in a burning school, by the religious police, for not being suitably dressed for letting out Young girls being married off to old men, against their will and having to allow them unrestricted "access"to their horrifically mutilated genitals, and doing same to their daughters (have you seen what is done to these girls?) or be beaten, Fathers fucking daughters to death as "virginity test" The wholly misogynist tyranny of it all The bad education, quran only book apro No not ALL of them, a few of them probably think it is great I say it stinks, Why do you ask ? Is this all news to you?
Paul J There are multiple Muslim Sects, and not all follow "rules" such as those listed above - In fact, beyond the Prayer Schedule, many of the non-Sunni Muslim Sects disagree fervently with what you've listed above; with that said, I do agree that the emphasis on Qur'anic Knowledge over Scientific Knowledge is troubling, however there is a requirement to know and to understand the Theories of someone such as Darwin, despite there also being a requirement to not allow any questioning of Qur'anic Knowledge due to what may have been understood of Darwin's work. An Imam (a Moderate SunnI Imam) will stress the importance of a Secular Education, though only so they may be able to Debate with those who wish to engage in a Debate. Also, it is stressed that Members of the Muslim Community go on and train to become Doctors, Lawyers, Businessmen, Educators, Politicians, etc., and while this may be considered as a form of "favoritism," particularly when one considers what this kind of "favoritism" will do, psychologically, to younger Members of the Community, it hardly supports the idea that education is banned. One could look at authoritarianism in any Religion and find abhorrent incidents prompted by such an authoritarianism and argue that that incident is an indicator of the Religion's ideology as a whole, and not simply an isolated event. I suggest the Article to which the Link below leads: www.iran-bulletin.org/political%20islam/SR_08_Ahmad_0.pdf Ahmad wrote a rather significant text titled "In Theory." Verso Press has currently re-published the title in its Radical Thinkers Series.
I forgot to mention the main thing wrong with it. It is all BOLLOCKS from start to finish. A pile of lies for power over women and fools, that drives people insane. & causes hatred
Paul J The Qur'an is rather progressive on the issue of Women's Rights. While there are of course items concerning the rights of women in the Qur'an that many would take issue with, such concerns are ubiquitous throughout all Faiths, particular when being viewed by individuals not of that particular Faith. Islam changed the structure of Arab society and to a large degree unified the people, reforming and standardizing gender roles throughout the region. According to Islamic scholar William Montgomery Watt, Islam improved the status of women by "instituting rights of property ownership, inheritance, education and divorce."
@@GylindrilSorry. Facts. Why can’t you just side with the fact that the greatest probability is that it is almost will be most likely part of those communities? I’m sure you wouldn’t give a dam about making the same distinction with white people and any proportionate proclivities you don’t like about them?
Whether you agree or disagree with Martin Amis' Essay, I love these debates and it's all a debate we should be having..always great to have these discussions.
What is good about the video is that many try to get to the "aha moment" with Amis and they never did. Instead of taking lines and lines of what he wrote from 30 thousands words essay and say "aha" let the man speak... and here he speaks and sets everything clear.
Martin Amis was a Gem, like his fellow weary traveller Christopher Hitchens, the world is softer, more compliant, gullible and wilfully credulous in their absence.
Yeah, it's irrational to fear Islam, so it is a phobia. It is rational to fear certain individuals, black, white, Christian, Islamic, vegetarian, carnivorous, etc, etc.
His father had "little impulses" to anti-semitism and said so himself, seems the son has followed suit. Having said that, we are all free (supposedly) to voice our own opinion, publicly when appropriate and certainly in written and spoken word when sought out by ones fan base. (if you are lucky enough to have such a thing). I find it really interesting that Hitchens was his best friend for many years, since their time together on the Spectator and each followed Kingsley Amis in regards to switching sides politically from communism or the left to centre then far right. We all have our heroes in life I suppose. Hitchens however did not dabble in anti-semitism but spoke his mind openly and often in regards to the Islamic fascist elements of society and indeed the core principles of Islam that are racist, fascist, homophobic and psychotic in parts to the betterment of the argument I feel.
Amis referred to his own children as, 'The Jews.' He found that amusing. Hitchens, although gay himself (he'd say bi-) wasn't averse to calling opponents 'boy chick' as a slur. They deserved each other.
Před 5 lety
Morality is a social construct. No such thing as being morally superior.
What does "look like from the Middle East" really mean? I'm of Mesopotamian Middle Eastern descent and I have stereotypical features: dark hair, dark eyes and olive skin. But I have family who have pale skin, blue and green eyes, blonde and red hair. Many Middle Eastern people are mistaken for Europeans, particularly Latin people.
this is another myth that has been thoroughly disputed. The myth of Andalusia as some wonderful multi-cultural paradise when it was nothing of the sort. Cordoba had a few places of higher learning woopy. Most of Spain was a bunch of feuding principalities it was in a state of constant warfare mostly between rival Muslims and Christians and Jews were treated horribly. The idea that there was a public school on every corner is a crock. Read Caliphs and Kings and you will see it is all propaganda. And even if it were true what difference would that make. The fact is that Islam has been at war with non-Muslims and has tried to conquer and subjugate all around them and the only time they haven't is only due to lack of power not lack of desire.
To admit to having an impulse, which being an impulse is, of course, irrational, is honesty on a level rarely seen in public discourse. And to claim that someone admitting to having had an impulse is the same as someone admitting to wanting that impulse to lead to action is to make a connection that may exist but by no means does exist.
the man at 5:00 min should have said, "I blame what appears (with data to spare) to be a generalised tendency towards emotionally driven, wounded warrior, reactionary playground violence upon losing a comparative moral arguement on the notion of civil/societal tolerance hands down..."
The self hatred and political correctness at the expense of standing up for the simplest of ethical statements by the host is pitiful. Also, the equating of race = religion is idiotic
Having not read Amis' essay, I will take him at his word that he properly denoted an "urge" to certain aggressive and discriminatory actions. The frank fact of it is that most people probably felt a similar urge and the host of the show is playing a politically correct, holier-than-thou position that doesn't suit any media personality well. However, when I think of those urges and of my Arab and Persian friends, I do have the decency to feel proper shame. Honesty impels me on both counts.
There are Asians who are not Muslims like Hindus, Sikhs, Christians, and the irreligious. So I disagree on the point about people who "look Middle Eastern or Pakistani".
I expected more from Amis. The difference between Islam and Islamism is negligible. The latter would be nothing without the former, and together, are indistinguishable in practice.
Yasmin Alibhai-Brown has changed her tune rather hasn't she? She's actually starting to get it, judging by her exchange with niqab advocate Shalina Litt: watch?v=nloISTe6mr0 ... which gets a little catty.
He feels morally superior to islamists (which we all do), has his problems with religion (as most of us do) and has a tendency to word things a bit too strongly (which a lot of us could work on). A minor controversy caused by angry words.
Please people all Muslims are not bad. Most in the UK are just curry house owners, shop owners, happy people who contribute to their society. Being fully anti-Islam does nobody any favours, being anti fundamentalism does though, it helps Muslims by differentiating the extremists from the normal ones and for the non Muslims by exposing the fundamentalists. By the way most of us here are actually children or grandchildren of subjects of British India, and feel a natural love for the UK
What matters is how they feel about the Islamists. In every country there is a fifth column, and so you can expect incidents like that near Parliament to keep happening. Just imagine that the IRA had consisted of a sect of Jacobites seeking to install a Stuart on the Irish throne.
It is of course nonsense to say that fearing Muslims is Islamophobic, because a phobia is an irrational fear, whereas fearing Muslims, given the level of Muslim atrocities worldwide, is rational. It is also, of course, nonsense to say that someone who fears Muslims is racist. Muslims are not a race, so racism simply does not apply. On the other hand, hating Jews is both irrational and racist, because most people who hate Jews have never suffered at the hands of one, or have any expectation of doing so, and Jews are a race.
+asif ismail The Catholic Church created anti-Semitism. By the time Pope John attempted to retrace the anti-Jewish heresies of the Church, anti-Semitism had entrenched itself firmly on a global scale. Muslims helped to spread the vile anti-Semitism of the Church with its own odious suras. Now you come along to advance the same tripe---I am not surprised that you are a Muslim. It cheers you to think that the world must confirm your hate---but it doesn't. The Catholics and Protestants have, as a rule, surrendered their anti-Semitism, though Western liberalism threatens to disinter it from the grave. As a rule, then, only Muslims---sub rational beings like you---continue to perpetuate hatred against Jews. And Jews, of all people, continue to excel at so many things, that they provide grist for the mill of envy--even humiliation, as every failure (probably you) rises to scapegoat this remarkable and durable people. I am sorry, Mohammad----but rational Westerners will not buy your insidious assertion and will dismiss it as an atavism perpetuated by slimy, humiliated failures.
"Countless gifts !" Give us half a dozen. Sad to see the once proud novelists act so craven. The trouble is Islamism is a totally credible interpretation of the standard texts of Islam - as the brave Sam Harris says. Sad to see Amis doesn't feel morally superior to an ideology that teaches - gays, apostates and critics, of Islam, must die - that a woman is worth half a man etc.
10:17 "Would you please dumb-down the vocalising of your thoughts to cater to the window-lickers who will inevitably jump the gun on buzzwords rather than listen to what you're actually saying?"
Islam unquestionably has a problem, and it extends beyond the Islamist ideology. In the UK especially, the first generation were very aware that they were coming into a foreign land that they were not part of. There is a distinction to be made between the "Become an American" philosophy, and "You are now British" philosophy. The first generation made a point of being mindful of their own business, professions in politics, acting, writing, the arts have very little Islamic representation within western environments. So, when there is justifiable criticism of the community falling silent, its misunderstood within their cultural context. You are only able to do "your bit" which is often in private not on public forums.
You believe in the morals you have because you have decided that they are correct. Therefore by definition other moral standpoints are going to be inferior because you think they are wrong. It might not be good manners at a dinner party to say that you are morally superior to others and should generally be avoided, but to me when it comes to a serious discussion, moral equivilency is a logical fallacy.
Quite the comment from a fella who's own work has, on at least a couple of occasions, been translated into Arabic at the very least. Morally superior to Islamism.... Isn't this tantamount to describing yourself as the most pristine ever guest to have appeared on The Steve Wilkos Show?
It is an idiotic thing to suggest they 'stick to people that looked like they were from the middle east'. Some of the most radical Islamists were new converts and that could be anyone. Also, profiling naively assumes that terrorists are shit at disguising themselves which could be a fatal assumption.
He means that one should expect the Terrorist to be someone who looks like he is from the Middle East because nearly all are. Should not strip search a little old white lady on the rational grounds of improbability.
The mistake made by Amis is to distinguish islamism and islam. I don't know if it is by lack of knowledge or to be kind but this distinction is a common mistake made by many "liberals". The islamists are not "bad muslims". They take very seriously the traditional doctrine of islam, its system of beliefs and act accordingly.. Consequently, it is important to know this doctrine always taught in schools or mosques to realize how harmful it is and its potential to create and legitimate conflits and wars.To me islam is a war declaration against humanity and this from the start. There is no possibility of peace with islam and I am afraid that western societies opening so blindly their doors to muslims will have to face civil wars because the islamic vision of social order is totally incompatible with modern democracy. The Coran or any "religious" books or traditions can not be a source a legitimacy in modern democratic societies. In those societies the source of legitimacy is Reason. Their laws don't come from would be revelations. They are adopted because they are justified by arguments, studies and debates. They can be changed and improved. They are not considered eternal and valid for all times and all societies!!! That explains why modern democracies are so dynamic and creative and why muslim world is so backward. The real challenge of this world is to get out of islam because it is a dead-end track and this is becoming each day more and more obvious.
You seem to be arguing with yourself at the beginning. Islamism is like any 'ism' the policitcisation of any doctrine, viewpoint or movement. You can have secularist Christians, Buddhists, Muslims or atheists. It's when religion creeps or smashes into the politics of nations, when the real fun begins.
Obviously, Islam can be practised by peaceful, enlightened, tolerant persons...but they need to be much more vociferous and public in their denunciation of the extremists.
I completely agree - I just wonder at why there isn't more of an Arab presence in the Mainstream media; a figure such as Edward Said constantly and consistently proved himself to be a wonderfully inspiring figure, and despite his being a Secular Humanist and not Islamic, he served as a Figurehead, like it or not, for Islamic individuals.
Ryan Ortega Maajid Nawaz is a Muslim who is doing a lot of work against extremism with The Quilliam Foundation. The worrying thing is that he's deeply unpopular amongst the general Muslim population.
"As one solitary Muslim asked him at the ICA, 'Why such contempt for Muslims?' Amis must have known something was up because he dropped his drawl and called the man 'sir'. But he could hardly unspeak his views. And those views are certainly alienating. With ignorance on his side, Amis can stare east through the salon window and convince us of a single advancing horde. He's clever. He might put it brilliantly. He might call it a 'Meccalanche' or an 'Attaclysm'. But when he speaks, think 'Hamza'." - Chris Morris www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2007/nov/25/bookscomment.religion
Sorry, but Amis is a hypocrite. He cannot on one hand "admire Muhammad" while condemning Islamism which is little more than a literalistic interpretation of the Qur'an and Sunna. Either you condemn the religion in its entirety or you don't. Just because pianos and snowmen didn't exist in his day, doesn't preclude the possibility that he would have proscribed against them had he been alive today, just as ISIS do in Mosul. ISIS are little more than good ol' fashioned puritans, like that woman in an episode of 'Blackadder' called "Beer" who shows how devoutly Catholic she is by wearing crosses all over body head and ranting violently against turnips and chairs.
There are branches of Islam that are relatively pacific. But a faith that is at its core steeped in the values of the Sunni and Shia is intrinsically. Jihad is fundamental.
Islam is not a homogeneous religion. There are so many denominations/sects within this complex faith group, you cannot use the term Islamophobia unless you yourself know which denomination you are referring to. Some denominations are no more able to frighten anyone than the Christian community of Amish. Some denominations are incredibly frightening and their faith scholars/leaders make that proudly clear to anyone who is listening to them. The term Islamophobia is a direct product of the propaganda machine funded by the frightening denominations. When people criticize Scientology or Mormonism, the rest of the world would never suggest that person is "Christianophobic". Before anyone uses the term Islamophobic, insist that they specify which denomination they are referring to. This will stop the use of this word, as no-one with ANY true knowledge of Islam would use that term.
Please go and read the heavenly book, Quran that every Muslim denomination adheres to, they all accept biography of Mhd as the founder-warrior-leader of Islam and the Hadees (detailed interpretation of all the verses in Quran) -- they all commonly contain materials that will generate "rational fear."
Regarding "respect for Muhammad" and particularly his meeting with the archangel Gabriel. Did anyone with any credibility actually witness this meeting ? No, you just have to believe that 1400 years ago some Guy with a silver tongue and a political agenda isn't bullshitting you. Sorry.... not me.
I don't think Amis is convincing here. He made a sweeping generalization about more than two billion people, and he knows that he can't defend it. So he repeats himself, uses personal attacks, and then resorts to clever phrases that cover up the fact that he doesn't have a strong case. Great writer, but not his best moment.
![Martin Amis: Comparing Stalin & Hitler [CC]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/bESD94NlEOg/mqdefault.jpg)
A brilliant man who dares to speak the truth! Hurrah, sir, hurrah!
He said here his father wasn't anti-semitic; he said elsewhere that his father used to watch the credits on television muttering, "There's another one. And another one," meaning Jews.
This interviewer, is very excited by the opportunity to engage in Islamism propaganda.
+Mark X
No, he is excited to try and character assassinate a critic of Islam or rather Islamism. Big difference.
Anyone who puts "criticism of Islam" and "racist" in the same sentence needs to be called an idiot. You should never continue talking to someone who is *that* stupid.
+Grammar Nazi This can be classed with that even more common error of referring to jihadists as Islamo-fascists. In both cases, the critic is attempting to associate his enemy with the deepest well of human evil: the Nazis, who were both racist and fascist. Of course, no intelligent critic of Islam is primarily interested in the deficiencies of Muslim races--since all races have some Muslims. Islamo-fascism was a dubious appellation from the beginning. Those who most closely met the clearest meaning of the term were people like Saddam and Assad--who are not jihadists and do their best to suppress jihadists in their own lands. Fascists have at least five commonalities: they are nationalists, martially inclined, anti-communist, anti-liberal, highly hierarchical/organized. Racism is actually not a key to fascism--it is thought to be only because the most famous fascist regime was racist. The jihadists deviate crucially from fascism: they are not especially hierarchical and they believe in the caliphate--which is an anti-nationalist conception. A better epithet for them would be Islamo-communists. They are third world revolutionaries who attract the sympathy of progressive Westerners. But the clearest description of the reality, though less catchy, is idealists of theocratic totalitarianism. They are merely idealists because they are merely failures. Even the theocracy in Iran was not established through jihadism. Jihadi rule is rarely established and never lasts.
+Grammar Nazi Correct , I've gone blue in the face and dumbed it down as much as possible to no avail, some people are too stupid and beyond critical thought
+Grammar Nazi 'Criticism of Islam is obviously not racist.' How about now hehe?
+TheGlobuleReturns Lmao, smart ass.
***** :D
who is morally and intellectually superior , a man like Martin Amis or a Saudi Cleric or an Ayatollah Khomeni .....what do think ?
Depends on the subject matter and context I suppose. Interesting question mind you.
@@MOOSEDOWNUNDERReally? That’s pretty thin considering the Islamist ideas of the two examples?
Amis says some good stuff here - really worth listening to.
This vicious insanity is hiding behind the name of religion
and we have to careful not to say things that might offend these
sensitive, sacred psychopaths,
who are inseparable from their vile ideology
Do you feel that every Muslim is a victim of a "vile ideology"?
Ryan Ortega Given the manner in which most children are indoctrinated,
the danger involved in questioning any of it,
the penalty demanded for apostacy,
the Child Genital Mutilation,
the stultification of enforced memorization of the rubbish in old arabic, quran,
Having to go to prayers 5 times a day
Enforced fasting,until life threatening for pregnant women during Ramadan
the laws prohibiting bacon,beer,music,art.etc
The laws concerning women, driving,
or being allowed out in public unaccompanied or uncovered,
being Capitally guilty as rape victims,
or "Honour"killed by their families,
Denied education, Shot for going to school,
Being trapped in a burning school, by the religious police, for not being suitably dressed for letting out
Young girls being married off to old men,
against their will and having to allow them unrestricted "access"to their horrifically mutilated genitals, and doing same to their daughters
(have you seen what is done to these girls?)
or be beaten,
Fathers fucking daughters to death as
"virginity test"
The wholly misogynist tyranny of it all
The bad education, quran only book apro
No not ALL of them,
a few of them probably think it is great
I say it stinks,
Why do you ask ? Is this all news to you?
Paul J There are multiple Muslim Sects, and not all follow "rules" such as those listed above - In fact, beyond the Prayer Schedule, many of the non-Sunni Muslim Sects disagree fervently with what you've listed above; with that said, I do agree that the emphasis on Qur'anic Knowledge over Scientific Knowledge is troubling, however there is a requirement to know and to understand the Theories of someone such as Darwin, despite there also being a requirement to not allow any questioning of Qur'anic Knowledge due to what may have been understood of Darwin's work. An Imam (a Moderate SunnI Imam) will stress the importance of a Secular Education, though only so they may be able to Debate with those who wish to engage in a Debate.
Also, it is stressed that Members of the Muslim Community go on and train to become Doctors, Lawyers, Businessmen, Educators, Politicians, etc., and while this may be considered as a form of "favoritism," particularly when one considers what this kind of "favoritism" will do, psychologically, to younger Members of the Community, it hardly supports the idea that education is banned.
One could look at authoritarianism in any Religion and find abhorrent incidents prompted by such an authoritarianism and argue that that incident is an indicator of the Religion's ideology as a whole, and not simply an isolated event.
I suggest the Article to which the Link below leads:
www.iran-bulletin.org/political%20islam/SR_08_Ahmad_0.pdf
Ahmad wrote a rather significant text titled "In Theory." Verso Press has currently re-published the title in its Radical Thinkers Series.
I forgot to mention the main thing wrong with it.
It is all BOLLOCKS from start to finish.
A pile of lies for power over women and fools,
that drives people insane. & causes hatred
Paul J The Qur'an is rather progressive on the issue of Women's Rights. While there are of course items concerning the rights of women in the Qur'an that many would take issue with, such concerns are ubiquitous throughout all Faiths, particular when being viewed by individuals not of that particular Faith.
Islam changed the structure of Arab society and to a large degree unified the people, reforming and standardizing gender roles throughout the region. According to Islamic scholar William Montgomery Watt, Islam improved the status of women by "instituting rights of property ownership, inheritance, education and divorce."
How can it possibly to be racist to discriminate against a religion, Islam is not a race how can he be called a racist.
What he said about people who "look like" Islamists. He was referring to a race of people, Middle-Easterners.
@@GylindrilSorry. Facts. Why can’t you just side with the fact that the greatest probability is that it is almost will be most likely part of those communities? I’m sure you wouldn’t give a dam about making the same distinction with white people and any proportionate proclivities you don’t like about them?
Amis on Eagleton: ''He trawls the internet looking for things to get self-righteous about.'' Nice one-line summary of his opponent!
Nice ad hominem attack. Eagelton criticised him on what Amis said and wrote; an ad hominem response is simply evasion.
Whether you agree or disagree with Martin Amis' Essay, I love these debates and it's all a debate we should be having..always great to have these discussions.
the interviewer is pathetically politically correct and is a real pain in the butt
He's a pain for you because he's rightly challenged Amis who was bang to rites.
@@matthewphilip1977 ‘Bang to rites?’
Channel 4 news is infuriating!
Good on ya, Mr Amis!
Where's Hitch when you need him
Lets just call a spade a spade.
What is good about the video is that many try to get to the "aha moment" with Amis and they never did. Instead of taking lines and lines of what he wrote from 30 thousands words essay and say "aha" let the man speak... and here he speaks and sets everything clear.
"Time's Arrow" was a great novel. Chilling.
Jon Snow secretly agrees with every reasonable premise that Amis is proposing, but he's doing his job. Amis is wearing a great shirt by the the way.
Martin Amis was a Gem, like his fellow weary traveller Christopher Hitchens, the world is softer, more compliant, gullible and wilfully credulous in their absence.
Well said.
There is no such thing as Islamaphobia. The word phobia implies something irrational.
+ella goldbloom Calling it Islamophobia is poisoning the well - a well-known propaganda tactic
Yeah, it's irrational to fear Islam, so it is a phobia. It is rational to fear certain individuals, black, white, Christian, Islamic, vegetarian, carnivorous, etc, etc.
@@matthewphilip1977 Is it also irrational to be concerned about a demand made by unelected powers that white people must become a minority everywhere?
Haha this guy is great
Check out Christopher Hitchens too.
Walter Mitty of Murder. Brilliant turn of phrase, right off the cuff. Martin's the real deal. Very gifted writer and wordsmith.
I doubt from the delivery that it was off the cuff.
saying it how it is
As soon as he said "criticised by a Marxist" I knew it would be a pathetic allegation.
I'm with you Amis.
Great bloke ❤
Jon Snow- Your approach to this was totally wrong. Martin Amis, I salute your intellectual honesty.
Like a greenwild with more eloquence!!!! Good job Mr. Amis!!!!
His father had "little impulses" to anti-semitism and said so himself, seems the son has followed suit. Having said that, we are all free (supposedly) to voice our own opinion, publicly when appropriate and certainly in written and spoken word when sought out by ones fan base. (if you are lucky enough to have such a thing). I find it really interesting that Hitchens was his best friend for many years, since their time together on the Spectator and each followed Kingsley Amis in regards to switching sides politically from communism or the left to centre then far right. We all have our heroes in life I suppose. Hitchens however did not dabble in anti-semitism but spoke his mind openly and often in regards to the Islamic fascist elements of society and indeed the core principles of Islam that are racist, fascist, homophobic and psychotic in parts to the betterment of the argument I feel.
Amis referred to his own children as, 'The Jews.' He found that amusing. Hitchens, although gay himself (he'd say bi-) wasn't averse to calling opponents 'boy chick' as a slur. They deserved each other.
Morality is a social construct. No such thing as being morally superior.
I feel intellectually superior to any religion
What does "look like from the Middle East" really mean? I'm of Mesopotamian Middle Eastern descent and I have stereotypical features: dark hair, dark eyes and olive skin. But I have family who have pale skin, blue and green eyes, blonde and red hair.
Many Middle Eastern people are mistaken for Europeans, particularly Latin people.
On a London street it is not hard to pick out the English . They are the ones who do not look like they come from the Middle East.
Reserved for educating the comment section.
Martin Amis' responses here are entirely legitimate, reasonable and astute. The interviewer is none of these things.
this is another myth that has been thoroughly disputed. The myth of Andalusia as some wonderful multi-cultural paradise when it was nothing of the sort. Cordoba had a few places of higher learning woopy. Most of Spain was a bunch of feuding principalities it was in a state of constant warfare mostly between rival Muslims and Christians and Jews were treated horribly. The idea that there was a public school on every corner is a crock. Read Caliphs and Kings and you will see it is all propaganda. And even if it were true what difference would that make. The fact is that Islam has been at war with non-Muslims and has tried to conquer and subjugate all around them and the only time they haven't is only due to lack of power not lack of desire.
I know who I'd rather listen to. What the media establishment think is of no interest to me, especially C4
To admit to having an impulse, which being an impulse is, of course, irrational, is honesty on a level rarely seen in public discourse. And to claim that someone admitting to having had an impulse is the same as someone admitting to wanting that impulse to lead to action is to make a connection that may exist but by no means does exist.
A very logical argument.
From his critics yes; just ad hom attacks from Amis.
John Snow is sickmaking.
the man at 5:00 min should have said, "I blame what appears (with data to spare) to be a generalised tendency towards emotionally driven, wounded warrior, reactionary playground violence upon losing a comparative moral arguement on the notion of civil/societal tolerance hands down..."
The self hatred and political correctness at the expense of standing up for the simplest of ethical statements by the host is pitiful. Also, the equating of race = religion is idiotic
Having not read Amis' essay, I will take him at his word that he properly denoted an "urge" to certain aggressive and discriminatory actions. The frank fact of it is that most people probably felt a similar urge and the host of the show is playing a politically correct, holier-than-thou position that doesn't suit any media personality well.
However, when I think of those urges and of my Arab and Persian friends, I do have the decency to feel proper shame. Honesty impels me on both counts.
Someone in Amis's position should know better. Why even mention his urges. Stick to what we ought to do.
This is a pragmatic move to avoid being attacked.
Wow, are we really to the point that criticizing Islamism -- not even Islam -- gets you called a bigot?
5 years later it’s got a lot worse... free speech very sadly has died
Amis is correct. I've lived with muslims. totally hopeless
There are Asians who are not Muslims like Hindus, Sikhs, Christians, and the irreligious. So I disagree on the point about people who "look Middle Eastern or Pakistani".
Sam Harris said
"For those people who think 'who am I to judge a culture that decides to circumcise young girls?'- Who are you NOT to judge them?!"
Eagleton is a hollow vessel. But has been listened to.
i have cultural preferences
I expected more from Amis. The difference between Islam and Islamism is negligible. The latter would be nothing without the former, and together, are indistinguishable in practice.
what a legend
Yes, the interviewer is great. Amis? A coward.
6:30 "Quite clearly it wasn't the white bit he liked, it was the supremacist bit..."
Genuine lol
Yasmin Alibhai-Brown has changed her tune rather hasn't she? She's actually starting to get it, judging by her exchange with niqab advocate Shalina Litt:
watch?v=nloISTe6mr0
... which gets a little catty.
The interviewer is very bias in this interview, he already made up his mind which side he wants the audience to be on, poor interview!
Rest in piece. There's always a never again!
Terry who ?
He indeed is his father's son
7:09 Amis wants to laugh about his legitimate answer to a stupid question.
'I don't believe in prosecution...I think it would be counter-productive.'
This man makes me throw up.
He said 'persecution'.
his comments were entirely reasonable and correct. it's fine to disapprove of terrorists
Jon Snow is nothing like Bill O'Reilly, saying nothing about this particular interview.
He feels morally superior to islamists (which we all do), has his problems with religion (as most of us do) and has a tendency to word things a bit too strongly (which a lot of us could work on). A minor controversy caused by angry words.
Please people all Muslims are not bad. Most in the UK are just curry house owners, shop owners, happy people who contribute to their society. Being fully anti-Islam does nobody any favours, being anti fundamentalism does though, it helps Muslims by differentiating the extremists from the normal ones and for the non Muslims by exposing the fundamentalists. By the way most of us here are actually children or grandchildren of subjects of British India, and feel a natural love for the UK
What matters is how they feel about the Islamists. In every country there is a fifth column, and so you can expect incidents like that near Parliament to keep happening. Just imagine that the IRA had consisted of a sect of Jacobites seeking to install a Stuart on the Irish throne.
It is of course nonsense to say that fearing Muslims is Islamophobic, because a phobia is an irrational fear, whereas fearing Muslims, given the level of Muslim atrocities worldwide, is rational. It is also, of course, nonsense to say that someone who fears Muslims is racist. Muslims are not a race, so racism simply does not apply. On the other hand, hating Jews is both irrational and racist, because most people who hate Jews have never suffered at the hands of one, or have any expectation of doing so, and Jews are a race.
I was with you up until you said Jews are a race.
Why do people hate Jews so much then? they keep getting kicked out of countries.
+asif ismail The Catholic Church created anti-Semitism. By the time Pope John attempted to retrace the anti-Jewish heresies of the Church, anti-Semitism had entrenched itself firmly on a global scale. Muslims helped to spread the vile anti-Semitism of the Church with its own odious suras. Now you come along to advance the same tripe---I am not surprised that you are a Muslim. It cheers you to think that the world must confirm your hate---but it doesn't. The Catholics and Protestants have, as a rule, surrendered their anti-Semitism, though Western liberalism threatens to disinter it from the grave. As a rule, then, only Muslims---sub rational beings like you---continue to perpetuate hatred against Jews. And Jews, of all people, continue to excel at so many things, that they provide grist for the mill of envy--even humiliation, as every failure (probably you) rises to scapegoat this remarkable and durable people.
I am sorry, Mohammad----but rational Westerners will not buy your insidious assertion and will dismiss it as an atavism perpetuated by slimy, humiliated failures.
Sapere Aude OK Jew :)
+Sapere Aude Man you are really Islamophobic aren't you? BTW why are you calling me Mo when it clearly says my name is Asif?
"Countless gifts !" Give us half a dozen. Sad to see the once proud novelists act so craven. The trouble is Islamism is a totally credible interpretation of the standard texts of Islam - as the brave Sam Harris says. Sad to see Amis doesn't feel morally superior to an ideology that teaches - gays, apostates and critics, of Islam, must die - that a woman is worth half a man etc.
10:17 "Would you please dumb-down the vocalising of your thoughts to cater to the window-lickers who will inevitably jump the gun on buzzwords rather than listen to what you're actually saying?"
Give a free one-way plane ticket to Mecca for any muslim who gives up their passport.
he didn't say that
Islam unquestionably has a problem, and it extends beyond the Islamist ideology. In the UK especially, the first generation were very aware that they were coming into a foreign land that they were not part of. There is a distinction to be made between the "Become an American" philosophy, and "You are now British" philosophy.
The first generation made a point of being mindful of their own business, professions in politics, acting, writing, the arts have very little Islamic representation within western environments. So, when there is justifiable criticism of the community falling silent, its misunderstood within their cultural context. You are only able to do "your bit" which is often in private not on public forums.
"Wannabe wahabi" lol. awesome. I wonder if that was off-the-cuff?
You believe in the morals you have because you have decided that they are correct. Therefore by definition other moral standpoints are going to be inferior because you think they are wrong. It might not be good manners at a dinner party to say that you are morally superior to others and should generally be avoided, but to me when it comes to a serious discussion, moral equivilency is a logical fallacy.
Quite the comment from a fella who's own work has, on at least a couple of occasions, been translated into Arabic at the very least. Morally superior to Islamism.... Isn't this tantamount to describing yourself as the most pristine ever guest to have appeared on The Steve Wilkos Show?
It is an idiotic thing to suggest they 'stick to people that looked like they were from the middle east'. Some of the most radical Islamists were new converts and that could be anyone. Also, profiling naively assumes that terrorists are shit at disguising themselves which could be a fatal assumption.
He means that one should expect the Terrorist to be someone who looks like he is from the Middle East because nearly all are. Should not strip search a little old white lady on the rational grounds of improbability.
She has made idiocy "respectable "..
+davidhume1000 Exactly. Ali Baba is undoubtedly the stupidest woman on the planet.
The mistake made by Amis is to distinguish islamism and islam. I don't know if it is by lack of knowledge or to be kind but this distinction is a common mistake made by many "liberals". The islamists are not "bad muslims". They take very seriously the traditional doctrine of islam, its system of beliefs and act accordingly.. Consequently, it is important to know this doctrine always taught in schools or mosques to realize how harmful it is and its potential to create and legitimate conflits and wars.To me islam is a war declaration against humanity and this from the start. There is no possibility of peace with islam and I am afraid that western societies opening so blindly their doors to muslims will have to face civil wars because the islamic vision of social order is totally incompatible with modern democracy. The Coran or any "religious" books or traditions can not be a source a legitimacy in modern democratic societies. In those societies the source of legitimacy is Reason. Their laws don't come from would be revelations. They are adopted because they are justified by arguments, studies and debates. They can be changed and improved. They are not considered eternal and valid for all times and all societies!!! That explains why modern democracies are so dynamic and creative and why muslim world is so backward. The real challenge of this world is to get out of islam because it is a dead-end track and this is becoming each day more and more obvious.
You seem to be arguing with yourself at the beginning. Islamism is like any 'ism' the policitcisation of any doctrine, viewpoint or movement. You can have secularist Christians, Buddhists, Muslims or atheists. It's when religion creeps or smashes into the politics of nations, when the real fun begins.
happier
Obviously, Islam can be practised by peaceful, enlightened, tolerant persons...but they need to be much more vociferous and public in their denunciation of the extremists.
I completely agree - I just wonder at why there isn't more of an Arab presence in the Mainstream media; a figure such as Edward Said constantly and consistently proved himself to be a wonderfully inspiring figure, and despite his being a Secular Humanist and not Islamic, he served as a Figurehead, like it or not, for Islamic individuals.
Ryan Ortega
Maajid Nawaz is a Muslim who is doing a lot of work against extremism with The Quilliam Foundation. The worrying thing is that he's deeply unpopular amongst the general Muslim population.
"As one solitary Muslim asked him at the ICA, 'Why such contempt for Muslims?' Amis must have known something was up because he dropped his drawl and called the man 'sir'. But he could hardly unspeak his views. And those views are certainly alienating.
With ignorance on his side, Amis can stare east through the salon window and convince us of a single advancing horde. He's clever. He might put it brilliantly. He might call it a 'Meccalanche' or an 'Attaclysm'. But when he speaks, think 'Hamza'." - Chris Morris
www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2007/nov/25/bookscomment.religion
Anything that's said that contributes to the annihilation of Islam (except as history in historical mythology class) is a good thing.
Sorry, but Amis is a hypocrite. He cannot on one hand "admire Muhammad" while condemning Islamism which is little more than a literalistic interpretation of the Qur'an and Sunna. Either you condemn the religion in its entirety or you don't. Just because pianos and snowmen didn't exist in his day, doesn't preclude the possibility that he would have proscribed against them had he been alive today, just as ISIS do in Mosul. ISIS are little more than good ol' fashioned puritans, like that woman in an episode of 'Blackadder' called "Beer" who shows how devoutly Catholic she is by wearing crosses all over body head and ranting violently against turnips and chairs.
There are branches of Islam that are relatively pacific. But a faith that is at its core steeped in the values of the Sunni and Shia is intrinsically. Jihad is fundamental.
Arabia was more advanced, not Islam.
Islam is not a homogeneous religion. There are so many denominations/sects within this complex faith group, you cannot use the term Islamophobia unless you yourself know which denomination you are referring to. Some denominations are no more able to frighten anyone than the Christian community of Amish. Some denominations are incredibly frightening and their faith scholars/leaders make that proudly clear to anyone who is listening to them. The term Islamophobia is a direct product of the propaganda machine funded by the frightening denominations. When people criticize Scientology or Mormonism, the rest of the world would never suggest that person is "Christianophobic". Before anyone uses the term Islamophobic, insist that they specify which denomination they are referring to. This will stop the use of this word, as no-one with ANY true knowledge of Islam would use that term.
Please go and read the heavenly book, Quran that every Muslim denomination adheres to, they all accept biography of Mhd as the founder-warrior-leader of Islam and the Hadees (detailed interpretation of all the verses in Quran) -- they all commonly contain materials that will generate "rational fear."
Islam is heterogenous in one respect when its different Sects (around 76) call each other infidels, qafirs and kill each other.
amis habitually backpedals once called out on controversial comments like these. disappointing.
Regarding "respect for Muhammad" and particularly his meeting with the archangel Gabriel. Did anyone with any credibility actually witness this meeting ?
No, you just have to believe that 1400 years ago some Guy with a silver tongue and a political agenda isn't bullshitting you.
Sorry.... not me.
why would you not feel morally superior to islamic fundamentalists
I don't think Amis is convincing here. He made a sweeping generalization about more than two billion people, and he knows that he can't defend it. So he repeats himself, uses personal attacks, and then resorts to clever phrases that cover up the fact that he doesn't have a strong case. Great writer, but not his best moment.
ok to islamism... happy?
A second rate writer. And what does "family's literary credentials" mean?!
His father was also a skilful writer, Google some of his work man
A greatly overrated writer: dwarf literature.
What kind of harm does Martin Amis’ words do? None, to pretend they did is utter shite.