You're a "HACK" if you use 1/4 ROUND TRIM or SHOE MOLDING…Right?
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- čas přidán 11. 08. 2021
- Hey Gang! In our flooring video, we got a lot comments regarding the baseboard and how we're going to tackle the transition between trim and floor. We don't think there's one right answer, and there's certainly not one way to do things, especially when every job is unique and different! We've heard it all from "You should NEVER use 1/4 or shoe" to "I use it on every job". We think this stuff gets a pretty bad reputation in the renovation and construction space, but we think there's more than meets the eye here. We wanted to offer our perspective on this controversial type of trim and why maybe it's useable in some cases, and not in others. There are so many variables in making this decision, that's it's almost impossible to write it off entirely, unless you're working on strictly modern homes. Let us know what you think in the comments! Thanks for watching gang, and we can't wait to make our big announcement at 100k! See ya in the next one.
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Those of us trying (and failing, consistently) to achieve perfection in our work, it's nice to hear someone talk this through and admit that nothing is perfect, ever. Every project is a delicate balance between time, money and effort. Given an infinite budget in all three you _might_ be able to achieve perfection but even still, probably not. Too many variables. Too much human error. I use these moldings as a last resort and when I do, I don't feel bad about it.
At 1:22 why did he need to sand between the 2 coats of paint on the baseboard? If someone can explain why, I’d appreciate it.
I’m in the middle of a painting nightmare. In way over my head. So frustrated.
Finally someone says it
"Don't let Perfect be the enemy of Good".
Anyone justifying using 1/4 round or shoe round is not a real carpenter. It absolutely looks tacky, trashy and gives major I grew up in a trailer park and that how everything looked brand new. Like Sheet 🤣🤣🤣
@@Jupiter_444 I will say I don't care for 1/4 or shoe but you missed the point.... "Master" carpenters aren't watching this channel for tips to complete their DIY project. People like you turn out a lukewarm finish but if you would quit talking about how good your work is you might actually show up to start working. Im sure you would throw your own money down when the customer won't so you can level the floors and float in the drywall imperfections and repaint so you can skip all the tacky trim....
Almost made me spit out my coffee laughing at the "you can paint it pink if you want to...you just can't have anybody over" LOL
That being said Brent, my house is set up for some entertaining, and I have nobody over anyway.
😂😂
@@jthonn LOL
😂 😂 😂 Same here
I had a friend that let a couple live in her spare bedroom, after their apartment got condemned for mold and untreated rodent infestations. They couldn't afford rent after the second month, so they said they'd fix up and paint her living room. They made the trim neon pink and the walls baby puke green, then disappeared with all of her furniture. She cried for a week. I came in and had to lay down two coats of Kilz just to cover the pink up. It was awful.
It's very common up here in canada to caulk everything paint grade. Kind of a pain whenever you have to take things apart but it looks real good when finished. Sometimes white silicone in the bathrooms too to help keep excess water from getting under the floor by the baseboards and tub
Again you impress. You don't get defensive, rather you explain not just why you took an approach but elaborate on real-world challenges, and then how to approach different types of flooring in different rooms, and the details about the types of molding. You guys rock!
Back in the day, baseboard was three piece. First 1x went down, usually 1x4 or 1x6. Because these were unforgiving when it came to following undulations in both floors and walls, and before the advent of caulk, two more mouldings were needed. Shoe on the floor and cove moulding on top. Additionally, the shoe was nailed primarily to the floor and the cove alternately to the 1x and wall. The shoe and 1x created a slip joint so that they could move independently as a home experienced seasonal movement. The smaller mouldings are also more flexible and follow the contours of a wavy wall, floor or 1x.
Today’s finish carpenter uses shoe for the same reason, to compensate for tall unforgiving base. Also, today’s base has a detail on the top to mimic the cove of yesteryear. Painters then caulk the top to the wall to create a seamless look.
There ya have it, from the yankee carpenter, retired.
One more thing. Historically 1/4 round was never used on the floor. Shoe is more flexible. Also, base was never used on a tile floor. Tile was because remember …… no caulk.
Basically, everything we do today we do to save money, and caulk hides a myriad of sins.
I'm rebuilding a 100yr old house. They used the previous tongue & groove flooring across the studs to put 18" drywall x 3/8" & covered with 1/2" to 1" of mortar. They built the base boards out of 1x4 and 1/4 round and plastered over it. I'm stripping it all out & keeping what's still usable.
The painter that caulks his ceiling córners ís a homeowner that can't cut worth of shit and doesn't have the patience to tape but at the same time nó self-respecting painter would blue tape anyway
@@keithtorpey44 as a homeowner I can say I'd rather have a few sloppy lines in my house than let a professional with your attitude anywhere near it.
@@AshOnTop23 you say attitude I just call it giving the customer a product they can be more then satisfied with but your entitled to shit work in your house ...
Man I would think after this many top notch videos, people would realize you are never just throwing something into a project without thinking through what you are doing. Everything you guys do serves a purpose.
You put yourself out there, people always have something to say. That’s the nature of the business. Keep doing what you do. Your good.
There’s nothing wrong with constructive criticism. No professional renovator or trim carpenter, for instance, ever installs baseboard before flooring except carpet. Also he has his bifold knobs installed in the wrong location.
like biden
I caulk the bathroom baseboards to get a better seal in case of a large spill of water, especially on a tile floor. It won't stop all the water, but it will give a little time to get the water under control before it gets under the wall or seeps into the structure on a second floor.
Never knew until this moment that EVERYBODY didn't caulk their baseboards in a bathroom. I thought that was standard practice.
I appreciate how you show there are different solutions for different situations and tastes. I'm always looking for the "right" way to do something and often find out there is no such thing.
There may not be a "right way" to do most situations... BUT there certainly are WRONG WAYS to do them!
Two of a trades is SO true. I never met a trade who looked at someone else's work and was impressed :)
As another guy in the trades, there are certain contractors I work with that impress me. Guess who I work with more often? Them or the rest of the crowd?
@@Stickmanght I'd take studpack and keep them busy for the next 12 months.
I trim/ remove trees for a living. Seen plenty of great jobs by others. Hopefully most of them, think my work is allright.
Caulk is like a Mastercard, never leave home without it
I am a cabinet guy and most of my jobs are scribed to the tightness of a business card or less on the floor, ceiling and the walls. Rare that i use caulk or silicone, even on a 20 foot run of countertops.
Except where the inspectors insist that bath and kitchen countertops be caulked.
@@TomCee53 those are stone or around water. That is different. I and most cabinet guys done do stone.
Caulk and paint make you the carpenter you ain’t lol
Growing up in a century home, where the base boards were 8" tall, I can't live without the look of 1/4 round and shoe mold.
I have no idea how one of your videos came across my recommendations, but now I've watched several dozen and I ain't mad. Love the honesty and integrity. I have no intention of doing most of this work in my life, but your videos are too fun not to keep following!
Really great info, I know you get some rude comments, just as all YT channels get. Do not let it get to you. Yall are some of the best I have ever seen.
0:40 that "skirt boards on top of flooring mess of blokes". Impression nailed it and had me rolling. Good job Jordan! Good pointers. Definitely the same way up here in VA with tons of shoe or quarter round.
I always had the impression that shoe was added for aesthetics mainly, and to hide imperfections as a secondary reason. Never stopped to ask my elder lead carpenter what he thought about it.
I just found this channel a day ago and have watched several of your videos already. They're excellent! I'm learning a lot from you guys. Many thanks.
Nice. I did an entire first floor with the 1/4 round after a floor install. It was a $1,000 upcharge. Turned out beautiful once the nail holes,caulk and paint touch up were done. I mastered couping 1/4 round.
Growing up in South Louisiana as well, I had no idea this was such a contentious subject! From shacks to mansions, it’s everywhere.
The reason why you use shoe molding and not quarter round on a wood floor is because of the flooring sander. The flooring sander called an edger has a bearing that rides along the flat edge of the shoe molding so you don't have to take off the shoe molding and replace it at the expense of the homeowner. If you use quarter round the sandpaper will dig into the quarter round and need to be replaced at the expense of the homeowner. I've been standing and refinishing wood floors for 40 years and it drives me crazy when I see quarter round on the floor
Best explanation of why shoe is shaped the way it is I’ve ever heard 👍👊
I wouldn't even sand a floor if it had a shoe mold. What a nasty job.
@@user-yr4os6jz4r when working on 100-year-old homes with 10 or more coats of paint taking up the shoe molding even when trying to be careful usually rips up the paint and requires a lot of prep on the baseboard if the floor hasn't been sanded too many times you don't need to take up the shoe molding if you're using a Clark sander but if you're using a European sander that doesn't have a bearing that goes around the sandpaper then yeah you have to take up the shoe molding you'll dig into it. If I could post pictures on here of the finished product I would and you would not be able to see a difference except in your pocket
@@barttrahan7037 You actually missed my point. Fact is, I wouldn't even sand a floor. Somebody else can do that.
@@WingWalker1 you need to learn to center your sandpaper and use the Clark sander super 7 preferably. It amazes me how many people don't know how their machines work and operate
We had some laminate flooring they used qtr round on and it stood out like a sore thumb to me, like you said, because it wasnt the same throughout the house. We recentely redid ALL of the flooring in the house, every square inch, in Luxury Vinyl Plank and had all of the baseboards removed and went back with about a half inch taller base to cover the old spot on the wall and the entire house now matches w/no qtr round, and flooring, base, everything in all 2000 square feet is the same. makes me so happy lol
It anit luxury if you gotta call it luxury.
That is spending some serious cash to dress up vinyl flooring. I applaud your commitment.
You sir are no joke, all variables addressed, all solutions considered, experience directing the best option, invaluable content
"You can paint it pink if you wanted to. You just can't have anybody over." Perfect!
only your color blind friends :D
We put in shoe moulding when we did our hardwood floors. Hides the uneven gap and we like how it looks!
Agee, shoe is nice but 1/4 round looks cheesy
@@brianinglis2199 Especially if the molding is 4 inches tall or shorter.
I have an old house that does not have level subfloors and you just answered so many of my concerns with how I am going to tackle the baseboards in our reno I am planning out. Thanks so much for this video.
I appreciate the effort to match everything throughout the house... AND... I appreciate the reasons why you varied from that plan to solve a particular problem at REASONABLE COST ... if I was building new, then it would be easier to do consistently through the house, I AGREE you need to decide on a case-by-case basis, doing your best, but ALWAYS AT REASONABLE COST. It is a balancing act, do the most you can but not at excessive cost. And I AM a a retired attorney, so this may be the first time I ever agreed with anyone other than my client or a Judge deciding in my client's favor. :-) JT
I've been shorted on my dose of Stud Pack! I was getting used to 30+ minute videos and then y'all left me feeling like a junky with this 10 minute one 😂😂😂 Love you guys! Keep'em coming! 👍👍👍
😂 thx Andrew
Love y'alls videos and wish y'all even greater success... I'm just a DIY, Jack of all trades and master of none kindda guy who enjoys doing projects and takes great pride in EVERYTHING I do, a lot like is evident with y'alls work, and have done three of my bathrooms down to cutting out "spongey" floor next to the tubs, which requires replacing the dated linoleum flooring because it can't be found any longer, but also to "update" the bathroom, along with new fixtures and hardware. But in laying the new floor tiles, using the appropriate caulk, I thoroughly caulk around the entire perimeter between the baseboard and tile edges, and then cover the required tile expansion gap with quarter round. This, hopefully, prevents any water from seaping under the tiles at the most vulnerable spots, where you'd never know untill damage is done and evident. I also caulk all gaps on top and bottom of all baseboards and quarter round, and it looks very clean and sharp. And I think quarter round or shoe molding "adds" a nice touch to any non-carpeted floor baseboard; a lot like crown molding on the floor; or would that actually be called "floor molding"? Lol
This is one of the greatest channels for homeowners and do-it-yourselfers out there. I’ve watched a few of your videos and learned some stuff and was entertained.
This video was really interesting! When you speak about consistency, it occurs to me that it must be with respect to flooring type. All the wood floors should have the same style moldings. But switching to a carpeted room, that's a different floor type completely and you subconscious will know that and it will be fine for the molding to be appropriate for the type of floor. Then just give all the carpeted floors the same molding treatment. Well, that's how I think of it. And again, interesting video and well presented.
The gap in the bedroom is great for hiding coax cable when relocating a tv. I would use a flathead screw driver and tuck it in.
When I'm running wires like that, I just remove baseboards, I don't wanna hurt my screwdrivers! Lol. (I do lots of cat cabling installs), I have just found it easier.
@@MrBlckPanther You find it easier to remove the base? Are you filling in the nail holes when you re-install, caulking everything and doing paint touch up? That's a lot of work imo. I'll go in the crawlspace or attic and run my wires to the wall through there, usually use a metal clothes hanger or something similar to make a very small penetration which I can then find in attic/crawlspace.
@@benjamincarpenter4376 I prefer doing drops (attic/crawl), but sometimes you get that client, that wants it all ran level to the flooring but hidden, and then you offer to just push it and they go no that'll mess up the floor/carpet, so you tell them what needs to be done and you charge them for special work. Lol. Yes fill and touch-up.
Only thing is, these days, who needs cable? :-)
Umm, everyone should have cable hardwire. I know wifi is great, but when it goes down so does the house building and that's sad.
shoe and quarter round definitenly have their place, and have been the only solution for me on many remodels. On a new build where I have the opportunity to work with high quality framers and a perfect floor, i don't use it. such a cleaner look without it, just as you showed with the carpeted room. great video boys
Came here to hopefully find out which size brads to use for my quarter round (thanks for mentioning 18 gauge right at the very end!)....and ended up learning a few new things. Comment section about the history of baseboards and shoe/quarter molding and wood flooring "strips" was also golden! Great stuff.
So helpful! I just bought a 1939 pier and beam and there are a lot of gaps the baseboards and hardwood. I I love that you gave the “why” for the options.
Awesome video, thanks for the hard work.
When I do casing, baseboard or crown in new constructions I caulk around everything so there are no gaps anywhere and the transitions look flawless as they should.
I also caulk the perimeter of the tile and the perimeter of any trim with waterproof caulk in bathrooms. Water will always try and find a way behind bathroom trim and will become a home for mold.
A good painters caulk isn't hard to remove if trim needs to be pulled.
I always caulked and wondered why others didn’t.
The gunk that grows under base & shoe is nasty. Every time the floor gets moped some of the bacteria & mold leeches out into the mop water and gets spread everywhere.
You all do great work. Personally, I wouldn’t worry what folks think. At the end of the day, if the homeowner likes it, that’s all that matters. Great job guys!!
My wife is from California and we live in S. Louisiana were I was born and raised and we just had this had this very discussion today working in our home . So glad I have this video to back me up for all of the good it will do for me .
Thank you SO MUCH. I have been watching baseboard videos for days trying to figure out the best solution for a small room with big expansion gaps as I install the baseboards. I tried scribing and NOOOO Im removing half of the board! I finally have peace of mind that shoe moulding will be the right decision for me! Very good straighforward video that inspires confidence by showing and explaining options.
I'm currently remodeling my house and I've reached a point where I believe it's best just to put the furniture in storage, move out, and let the remodelers do their jobs. The painter was behind schedule, the flooring was late and my kitchen cabinets are probably in Afghanistan. I'm definitely going with the 1/4 round
I feel your pain. Storm hit April 2020, my house is still not painted. My flooring will never be ready and double the cost now. Wishing you a speedy reno.
@@stephaniecisneros1003 Girl. Quit waiting on other people, put on some old clothes, trim everything with blue painters tape, and get it done. 😅🤷
Paul is a man that knows what he knows and can articulate it very well. I like the quarter round, but agree that it doesn't usually look good on a carpeted floor, unless it might be a very low profile carpet. Great video, made me chuckle in a couple of spots.
Eye,, carpet does not like quarter round.. If possible remove it sand and paint or stain base. Just sayin. Most carpets won't cover the height of the quarter round on the base.
I agree with you on "appropriate". I've seen flooring installers use quarter round with 2 1/4" base and it looks awful. Thanks for shining the light!
i was fortunate to grow up in a century farm home, hardwood hand turned balusters, 8 inch built up baseboards and thick jambs that quite literally picture framed most of the windows. love the look of the multi layer baseboards that don't just line the room perimeter, but also gives the room a bit more dimension. quarter round is a good option but that protruding surface seems to get dirtier faster. built up will cost you more, but will certainly increase your returns. plus you get to use your creativity to add a touch of the tradesman's style to your finishes. great videos thanks for sharing
There is no one size fits all for anything, and if there was no two things would be different from each other. You just need to find the solution that's appropriate for the task, tend to find people are very stuck in their own ways and give no thought to something different. It's good to have 3 or 4 methods to overcome something and this is a perfect video explaining that.
Thx 👍
There's always more than one way to skin a black cat
The best way to do it, is give the homeowner the options and let them make the decision
@@SnatchyPanda
That's just it, the customer doesn't know and is looking to your years of experience to settle the issue so they don't have to think. They'll only choose the worse option anyway.
Tall Base, scribe it in, or use filler and make it go away.
Like you said everybody does it different… I have over the years with great success used lightweight vinyl spackle to fill in gaps like you had at the bathroom baseboard. I have actually filled gaps up to about an inch this way. Pack that gap with the lightweight spackle using your 1 inch putty knife, smooth it and paint after drying. It will take a while to dry, but It dries hard but flexible; Couple places I did 10 years ago still look fabulous. I can send you some pics if you like.
In addition I think bathroom and kitchen floors always need to have caulk at that joint just to slow down any water from penetrating after the inevitable spill. I have even started using vinyl trim boards for bathroom and kitchen base. Holds up like iron even if you mop the floors slapping up against the baseboard.
1” gap?? 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣
I am glad you did this video. We are building and ran into the same issues.... flooring was backordered. We ripped and finished our own trim, then completed it quarter round from the same wood.
Spiders will love the space between the ceiling and the beautiful crown molding you installed
Love the idea of the two-tone look with baseboard and quarter round. I am having a walk in shower install plus enlarging the closet. I just love the idea of not having everything looking conformed to the rest of the house. By the way you guys are my little secret, because every time I mentioned something to the contractor, he scratches his head like, where did she get this from.
I started to use tile as base boards in the bathroom to match the floor. We use color match silicone caulk between tile floor and tile baseboard. It holds up to the water and cleaning way better then traditional wood baseboards.
Absolutely effin genius!!! I'm doing it. 👏👏👏
I have had multiple cases of leak damage, love your idea
I installed bullnose tile /'baseboards" installed in my bathrooms as well. But didn't use caulk at the bottom, just used the same epoxy grout as used on the rest of the floors. Looks fancier and ensures any water issues says on the floor, doesn't go into the walls. I only use epoxy (or urethane) grout in bathrooms and try to use it anywhere else. Not ever having to worry about sealing it ever few years is a huge win.
we've started using pvc baseboard in our bathrooms at our property. renters can and will find a way to flood a bathroom. the pvc doesnt soak up the water, we color match silicone caulk. Ive started wrapping our vanity's with it since I lift them off the floor 1/4 inch so they arent sitting right the floor to soak up water either
Well done on production of your videos. Watched a couple because they were informative and never dragged. Even though I am a handyman, I wasn't looking for these videos right now, but you kept my interest, so I stayed. Nicely done.
This is one of the best content out there. I only miss the actual applying of the solution. Keep it up!!!
Great video!!! There is a additional benefit of the bead of caulk is that it help minimize water getting under the base
Caulk around base is required by inspectors in some areas.
I usually caulk gaps on a tile floor but you explained each scenario so perfectly another great 👍 video by you guys great information here for a pro or a rookie
you could also grout them while grouting, depending on the grout.
@@frotobaggins7169 yes that's true I have done that also
Grout can be used but never caulking. In two months it looks like crap
@@ClaytonYatescarenthusiast I have never had any problems with it but not saying that there couldn't be what happens to it does mildew??
@@joebinion1 several of my customers will do there houses in stages and about 3 years ago we'd caulk when the floor was tile. Obviously never lvt or lvp cause most is floating. But what would happen is we'd go back in a month and it was dirty. The floor would get cleaned and the caulking wouldn't come clean. Then it wears from the mopping and cleaning. The ultimate baseboard to floor situation is a flat floor with base sitting right on top of it. That's unlikely so we have push blocks to actually bend the base as we nail it. If mdf you can get it sitting flat over a 1/2" in five feet. There's almost no situation where we can't get the base flat against the floor. Just have to make push blocks and sometime two people. The blocks have to not damage the wall or base.
Yes, in our area 1/4 round is common on higher end homes. We already had it as well. The 1/4 round that matches the floor tends to be a preference to accentuate the floor vs. the trim or wall. Some prefer the white when they have a ton of while trim on floor and ceiling to accentuate trimmed look rather than floor look. I agree.
Thank you for your videos I’m new to your channel and so far I like the energy and the knowledge you give to your viewers… keep it up 🤙🏻
Hey Paul, you and Jordan do great work! You guys take a real world approach to a situation, consider the best option, and turn a mess into a work of art! To bad these nay sayers don’t get that…maybe one day they’ll learn. In any event, this ol’ dog is still learning new tips and tricks thanks to you guys!! So you keep schooling’m bro…👍
There's certain situations where it's absolutely perfect for filling a gap and looking good, when done well quarter round can be an invaluable tool especially when nothing else suffices...
Ya
Fast-paced, example-laden, practical video on what could have been a boring topic. Instead, I've liked it, saved it, and subscribed. Thanks, Stud Pack.
I am definitely a fan of these more informational video. They are a great addition to your normal workflow videos. Keep ‘em coming
"You just can't have anyone over" hahaha, that cracked me up!
But I agree, just use whatever looks the best AND covers up whatever it is needs covering up.
My wife hates quarter round (mainly due to bumping into it with the vacuum and such), which I do agree on a bit, so maybe a shoe moulding could help as it's a bit steeper.
Thanks for the great channel by the way, you've quickly become my favourite!
Too funny…I actually installed shoe trim because I got tired of touching up the paint on the baseboard from my OCD wife hitting it with the vacuum! I used a wood grain color that matched (close enough) the floor, which looked weird to me at first against the white baseboard, but not having to paint every couple months is worth it!!
Painting is a damn CHORE! Get the paint, stir it well, filter some into a container, mask the floor, clean the dust and dog hair off the trim, paint the trim, clean the brush, hang to dry, put everything away…
@@philipbohi983 that's exactly what shoe molding is for... it's to stop you from scuffing up baseboards with vacuums...
Thanks for the video! You got some fair points.
If it's normal for your area then I suppose, but I still think it looks "hacky".
In my experience it's commonly viewed that 1/4 round is for the "weekend warrior" DIY people who don't want to touch the base.
But as you pointed out there's times and places where the 1/4 round will fix issues that would be too costly and/or time consuming to remedy.
Much appreciated 👍
I like his attitude. Cool, calm and collected. I have dealt with those contractors that are high strung I-know-what-im-talkin-bout and it can get dramatic.
I gotta say, I’ve watched a many of your videos and you and your team are one class act!! Always enjoy your videos and energy.
I used to hate quarter round and shoe molding but as im midway through 40. I’ve actually embraced it. I suppose it’s a mature man’s trim.😂 It definitely has its place and sometimes that place sure is a blessing.
Btw, Beautiful home!!👍👍
I am in Canada. You always install flooring first and then the baseboard unless it's carpet here. If you tried to use quarter round you would be thrown off the job. You NEVER see it except in very old houses where it is common.
Continuity (“homogenous”) is the key. My home had 5 different kinds of flooring. Hurricane damage allowed us to remedy that and now we have two, both natural slates. My baseboards now match the style of the home (MCM/modern/Prairie School). All the crown molding was removed (except for 3 untouched rooms) and all the door knobs, hinges and locks match (minimalist brushed nickel; previously ornate oil-rubbed bronze). We have replaced all of our windows with double-pane, gas-filled, low-E muntin-less choices that lend themselves to the style and create better views from inside. The end product will be nice as we will be wrapping up with repairs soon. Still uncertain on gutter color choice, but I haven’t even looked yet, so…
Yes, you can get away with a little bit of variation between rooms if you've got a compelling reason to do it, but within the same, or adjoining, rooms it's definitely going to look like garbage.
I’m tiling my kitchen (but keeping the cabinets). I ripped up the old tile/backer board) right up to the cabinets and added baseboard and 1/4 rd to cover up the difference between the new tile and what was left of the old. Saved me from having to remove the base cabinets.
My response to detractors has always been: “If that’s what floats your boat, then go on with your bad self!”
You do you Stud Pack! It all looks friggen awesome!
Exactly!
If the customer is happy, and the contractor can live with whatever "look" the customer chose, then that's what should go in. Anyone else's opinion is irrelevant.
I'd like to opine that when a person tiles up to the baseboard (instead of going under it/putting the baseboard on over the edge), that "grout line" needs to be color-matched silicone caulking instead of regular grout. Normally when the baseboard is installed on top of the tile, there's an air gap left between the wall and the tile edge for thermal expansion. If you tile up to the baseboard and then grout that edge to fill the gap with normal grout, there's no chance for the tile to expand sideways. Grout manufacturers make color-matched silicone caulking that you use to fill the gap while still allowing for that expansion since the silicone is squishy. :) Ideally, every 20 linear feet there's a grout line that is replaced with this color-matched caulking as well because 20 feet and longer runs of continuous tile also need a place to expand against one another. Without doing that, you risk "tenting" especially if the installer swirled the thinset or used the wrong trowel groove size and got less than 80% coverage on the tile backside. Schluter makes expansion joints that one can use in between 20 foot lengths of tile which look really great and blend in well unless you really get close and look at them. They should be used at transitioning thresholds too to give an expansion joint that looks nice and clean, but you can just use the caulking there too to save cost. 👌 If you get complete thinset coverage, stitch and seal slab cracks with decoupling membrane over the top, leave an air gap under the baseboard or caulk the gap between the baseboard, and include expansion joints in the middle of a room where it's 20+ feet, you will never have a tile crack or pop off by itself, ever. Someone would need to drop a dumbbell or something on it to crack one. 😸 I know you're a perfectionist Paul, so I just wanted to let you know about this because many tilers don't do it and they don't know when the tile tents in 3 or 4 years because they aren't around to see it.
Also the grout up against the baseboards tend to crack
@@anthonyrodrigues5032 White silicone? :)
I am still not understanding why said person wouldn't just pop the baseboards off it takes all of 5 minutes for an entire room. Less if it's stained base.
@@cdurkinz you can inadvertently do some damage. If you're repainting everything, then maybe removing the baseboard makes sense. Then you still have to put it back and compensate for all of the possible situations mentioned. Expansion, wavy subfloor, etc...
@@hampyonce you can avoid the damage if you cut the caulk well enough.
Not a fan of quarter round, we usually use shoe but this helped us out a lot.. My employees as well as myself have A.D.D. & O.C.D but that’s why we get work.. thanks for the video and keeping Zoloft alive!
Hey Paul...great video.
I did my guest bathroom with large tiles and I learned too, on my next job to use self leveling clips.
Also..I was told by a good friend , that when using water as a mix, for the grout...to use distilled water. It really does make a difference with the color being consistent.
Never thought of that !
The old saying...learned by doing...also love CZcams.
Thanks for sharing ...
I like the quarter round. I have it throughout my house.
(Texas)
I do too. It's so funny to see the "NEVER!" people telling folks not to do it. Why shouldn't we have things the way we like them?
Another idea for you, I recently did a paint job where they had taller baseboard, instead of using quarter round the installer used ogee edge door stop, it looked really good.
I was in the floor covering business. I used ogee as a molding too. Looks great. Costs a little more but worth it to impress.
Ogee you're fancy
Great job stud pack, I enjoy the videos and appreciate the info. Glad to hear you would go with the Caulk in bathroom floor, I’ve done this myself under the same circumstances
I love the old school 1 x 8 with a custom 45 degree ripped profile top and 3/4” quarter round at the base of a lath and plaster wall. Absolutely classic.
After doing flooring for 18 years I can literally count the customers on one hand that wanted the baseboard removed and replaced. Everyone opts for quarter round due to cost etc.
Yup!
In my area the base molding in homes built 1970-1990's have 2 1/4" base and it looks bad when you stack flooring and then quarter round to have an 1.5" reveal on the base. Some floor installers use 3/4" qr that matches the floor instead of just using shoe molding and it looks really terrible. I talk the costumers into new base install and paint it with semi gloss or satin. If the customer has the money they are always happy to do replacement, it is a win win, I get paid more and they are happy with nice new painted base.
I am about to do the my flooring and unfortunately, I have 2" clamshell base board. I have never done the floors before but, the laminate I have is 14mm this and takes up almost 1/3 of the baseboard. I think my only option is to remove all the baseboard and replace it with some nice 4-6" base base board. However, I believe that this will enable me to set a better 1/4" gap on the floor and then there will be no need to quarter round the project... Fingers crossed I don't screw it up haha!!
@@cursed_to_toil I would use the 3 1/4" pine base if you don't have a lot of experience with this type of work. That stuff is easier to cope, you could miter it and caulk but the walls are always messed up that is why I suggest smaller stuff. Sometimes you have to add shoe because the subfloor or flooring job is not level. The thinner base can be pressed up against the flooring easier to hide gappage.
@@cursed_to_toil That’s the proper way to do it. I just finished my GF’s kitchen and that’s the way I did it.
Nice work as always guys. I look forward to the next one! What do you guys use to fill the nail holes in your trim jobs?
Thx Nathan 👍. I use sparkle (not joint compound)😂😬
I like Drydex, or Elmers wood filler, (my first choice) because it has minimal shrinkage, stronger bonders which makes it tougher and great for repairs, and its available in many colors.
Thank you for your practical advice. Had no idea shoe trim caused such vitriolic debates until I started watching DIY videos and reading the comments.
I really like the quarter round--looks fancy. We just removed old carpet and are having our floors refinished, so We'll probably end up using quarter round to hid the baseboard gap. Plus, fancy fancy :)
Quarter round is what I'm accustomed to seeing, and it's okay with me because it often makes the baseboard look more interesting with an added detail. Whatever you do don't ever put in clamshell moldings! If you're adventurous try custom building your own molding. Even combining common profiles and standard finished lumber will make for some splendid work!
Anyone justifying using 1/4 round or shoe round is not a real carpenter. It absolutely looks tacky, trashy and gives major I grew up in a trailer park and that how everything looked brand new. Like Sheet 🤣🤣🤣
Just did a stacked trim like that for a crown moulding looked cool!
@@Jupiter_444 Depends. There are very expensive homes around here with shoe and 1/4 round. Generally here 1/4 or shoe is used on hard floors and not in carpeted areas. I agree with Stud Pack. Not some arrogant Jack.
Even though I installed luxury click vinyl flooring in the main living area including kitchen and laundry rooms my 11/16 by 4 1/2 baseboard trim covered the expansion gap I still installed shoe base too , I think it’s better than just baseboard , to me the extra work looks richer for both
This was awesome content and information, as a DIYer on a 100 year old house, your experience is invaluable as I move through my projects.
I love your advice! Thanks for the helpful explanations on the shoe and quarter round and where to use it.
I wish I had access to videos, particularly yours, when I was doing this type of work. I have just enough knowledge to recognize that you know what your doing- and enough sense to know you care about a job being done right. I would hire you any day for any job. Here is an "Atta Boy" to you and your team!
Much appreciated Tammy 👍
@@StudPack yeah this is such valuable information. Thanks for everything you do for us.
As a remodeling contractor for nearly 39 years I've used multiple methods to rectify & eliminate those unsightly gaps.
The majority of homes older than 40 will most likely have 1/4 round or shoe.
Those that are younger may not, so it's all about era & athstetic correctness.
I work for a custom cabinet company, we usually use shoe mold on our cabinets where we dont have baseboard. Most contractors around here use 1/4 round, what we do to avoid the odd transition is to miter where they meet up, this typically a 45. Then just caulk the miter and the inconsistency's in size just go away.
I really like the 'stained' quarter round look. Missed filling a nail hole. :P In the Midwest, we just caulk the bath tile to baseboard; seems standard here. Really great illustrative video!
Had to use quater round here in Tulsa OK. I actually like it.
Are you guys gonna do a video of the install?
Keep the awesome videos coming.
It's definitely different I'm in ga and we use shoe with the long side against the flooring bit I agree with you they all look fantastic but to me any type of flooring that is not carpet looks incomplete to me without some type of shoe or quarter round
I recently insulated and finished a basement wall with drywall which I put a j bead on to meet the tile floor (which was uneven) and it looked pretty straight and not wavy at all. Plus the clean look of no trim is lovely.
I like it when you say “do what looks good to you” that’s what I tell everyone that doesn’t like how I installed flooring or try to tell me they installed theirs better.
Too Funny and educational. Paul, it seems like you are coming into your talent personality or those comedian classes are paying off LOL. Thanks for being real and honest. I enjoy seeing that we all have issues when DIYing. It feels good to know it happens to even an expert like yourself. Glad to be part of the Stud Pack Gang LOL..
Yep. EVERYONE has to make a few unplanned trips to the orange or blue box stores.
There isn't any trim that I installed that did not conform with proper installation. I would not install 1/4 round throughout a home simple because there is a gap. I would remove that trim and cut groves behind the trim in order that it bends. Furthermore, it all depends on the homeowner, and not necessarily the installer. I would never put 1/4 round in the bathroom because you are asking for a cleaning nightmare. In my opinion, 1/4 round looks horrible and the only time I really use it is under cabinets. Subscribed.
I think it's one of the most obvious pieces of construction that is being used to hide an imperfection to the average person. It looks bad because you have a piece of trim then yet another piece of trim sticking out from that trim... He is right though, timing is generally a problem with this unless you are 100% DIY.
Hey I like your video when shopping for flooring at HD didn’t even know what quarter rounds were. The representative mention it. You provided great information
Excellent overview of options. I couldn't agree more. Thank you for a very professional discussion.
Keep it up.
Good video. If you're going to caulk at the tiles, make sure you use tape to get a nice straight line on the tiles. It takes a bit longer but the look is million times better than a caulking edge that feathers out unevenly. Cheers from Canada!
Residential carpenters usually love to slap trim on everything because they don't know how to scribe or are too lazy. The best option for that bathroom was definitely scribing and caulking. A thin and super clean bead of caulking around the whole room will have the added benefit of sealing a wet area against moisture damage that will otherwise slip under the base. Applying paint to the bottom edge of the base before installing is also a good idea if you don't want to use caulking.
I like your ability to contextualize the range of solutions - and I like the outtakes!
I still hate quarter round. But… in dire circumstances, I suppose I could live with it. Love your work and your reasonings. Thank you.
I never use quarter round, unless I'm trying to match off of previous job, done by someone else. Shoe mold makes sense in some instances, especially if the floor is going to be redone someday, which they all most likely will, more for the next person to make it easier. Ideally, you would remove the moldings, but some customers would rather you didn't. So it's kind of situational, and there's really no wrong way to do it. The only 100% way you have to take the baseboards up, if they're already short to begin with and you're going over another floor.
Great comment, with the uneven floor even the 100% option of taking it all up and relaying it still potentially leaves those dang little gaps. I like what you said about no wrong way, I'll add to it and say there is a best way, it's the one that works for the particular situation. :)
Never use 1/4 round. Even if the previous contactor used it. Was made for cabinets not floors. Literally shows a mistake or short cut was taken. I've done probably 200 houses and never used 1/4 one time. I'll even have customers with zero knowledge say to me that they don't want that extra piece on the floor they think it looks cheap. They're talking about 1/4 round and that's what the last person that quoted them tried to sell them hence why I'm now at their house
I'm with you. Hate 1/4 round and will not use it. I will skip a job if they insist.
@@ClaytonYatescarenthusiast I agree, I think it looks like an amateur, like me, did it. Only I try for professional results. It almost irks me as bad as calling a Water Heater a Hot Water Heater. 😉
I just finished up a full makeover on a small three bedroom with original hardwoods.
The owner was against quarter rounds. Fine. Now, on the walls where runs end or begin, any variation in level of floor is represented as a gap under the base.
Only way to fix it is to plane each baseboard to fit the floor, tons more work
Totally worth the extra work imo. In new England shoe or quarter round is severely looked down upon by finish carpenters. I Moved to Arizona some years ago and its everywhere even in million dollar homes. Along with tiling up to the baseboard. Smh It looks so un professional to me. We never use it and never will. Scribe the base to the floor ftw.
@@polygaryd if there was just a little bit of justification for me to do so, I would. As it is, there are more extras I’ve pitched in, than...well, let me just say I’ve written this one off and looking forward to better days...
@@Chuffin_ell I wasnt commenting on your work personally just commenting on how much better no shoe or quarter round looks imo. Also as a trim carpenter of 20 years I really don't think its a lot more work as another user suggested. I'm betting it would take similar time to scriplb and cut base as installing shoe especially if you have to paint it.
@@polygaryd I hate them. Just being self conscious
I'm laying new flooring in our old town house (was a rental) and hate that they placed the small molding directly onto the floor, so the trim or shoe molding will make the small molding look even smaller, but I plan to put a small piece of trim/molding (not sure how high) over the existing trim and paint it all to make it look like a larger molding.
Thanks for all the info. You just helped me decide on the new baseboard style I need. I need to go with one a bit taller that what I just purchased. Which is what I was thinking. Back to the store I go tomorrow.
Honestly I would never ever quarter-round the floor. I would have just waited to base. The only place I think that stuff belongs is around cabinets bathtubs hearths and exterior doors.
In my house, someone who lived here before me either cheaped out on trim cost or had a lazy contractor. When they put the tile in throughout the house, they left the original trim in place, laid down the tile (against the trim), and then installed quarter round all around the edges to hide it. After Hurricane Ian rolled through and flooded my house, I had to cut the drywall out, replace it, mud, sand, prime, paint, install trim, caulk, etc. I thought I was finally going to get rid of that damn quarter round. I basically made up new swear words when I ripped off the first piece of quarter round and realized what they did. I'm stuck with quarter round forever unless I retile the whole house.