1987: GRAFFITI - Is It ART, CRIME... or Both? | Daytime Live | Classic TV Debate | BBC Archive

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  • čas přidán 15. 04. 2023
  • "Where I've been brought up is where I think I have the right to put my mark."
    Graffiti is on the rise in many towns and cities across Britain, with London Underground claiming that it costs as much £750,000 each year to clean it up. But should they be cleaning it up at all? Goldie doesn't think so, he is a talented artist who strongly rejects claims that he is a vandal.
    Goldie believes there is a world of difference between his intricate, spray-painted designs - urban art - and the simple tags that draw the ire of authorities. Does Superintendent Fowler of the West Midlands Police share this attitude, or does he think Goldie should be arrested?
    Pamela Armstrong arbitrates.
    Originally broadcast 28 October, 1987.
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Komentáře • 136

  • @MorganSpear
    @MorganSpear Před rokem +12

    Life Changing moment on TV for millions of kids in the UK, I'm 46 year old Artist now, Thank you Goldie 🙏

  • @tentringer4065
    @tentringer4065 Před rokem +48

    Future drum and bass legend and Bond movie actor Goldie.

    • @rohithpadikkal7082
      @rohithpadikkal7082 Před rokem +2

      Who?

    • @ltipst2962
      @ltipst2962 Před rokem

      ​@@rohithpadikkal7082 The first dude we meet

    • @ThizOne
      @ThizOne Před rokem +1

      @Tent Ringer
      Was Goldie in a Bond movie!? 😆
      Which one?

    • @tentringer4065
      @tentringer4065 Před rokem +7

      @@ThizOne he plays a henchman in the World is Not Enough.

    • @ThizOne
      @ThizOne Před rokem

      @@tentringer4065 I’m not a big a fan of James Bond, but I’ll definitely have to check that out 🙃
      Thanks for the info 👽👍

  • @mkdoddart
    @mkdoddart Před rokem +17

    Advertising is imposed on people.

    • @NeverStopRolling
      @NeverStopRolling Před rokem +6

      This comment seemed dumb at first but it's kinda a really good point how much stuff is shoved in front of our eyes without our permission to persuade us to spend money on crap we don't need, yet a message spreading awareness about peace and love is a 'crime'.

  • @andyphilipson6983
    @andyphilipson6983 Před rokem +13

    No body asks for huge billboard adverts for McDonald’s to be put in their neighbourhood. So as far as I’m concerned people have a right to decorate their neighbourhood as they see fit. If McDonald’s can deface a wall then why shouldn’t anyone else.

  • @Asaski09
    @Asaski09 Před rokem +5

    As somebody who just sprayed 'bottom' on his neighbour's front door, this really is a conundrum for me

  • @djpaulhannon
    @djpaulhannon Před rokem +12

    I’ve had a drink with Goldie, he’s a really cool guy.

  • @nictrax
    @nictrax Před rokem +6

    Young Goldie!

  • @michaellifetv5696
    @michaellifetv5696 Před rokem +10

    Big up 👍🏿 yourself Goldie.

  • @robertroseman2976
    @robertroseman2976 Před rokem +6

    the fact Goldie has an MBE after his name and being so “in your face “ in the 80s is bad ass !!! and being able to het away carrying balls so big is deff bad ass !!!

  • @pressureworks
    @pressureworks Před rokem +2

    Funny how its vandalism, unless your banksy then you remove the entire wall and sell it

  • @cbarronie2361
    @cbarronie2361 Před rokem +4

    In many places, I'm particularly reminded of many Spanish cities, it makes for beautiful art.
    There's a distinct difference between a talented graffiti artist & a dumb kid tagging.

  • @davedogge2280
    @davedogge2280 Před rokem +11

    It's a tricky one because to get started you need a big expensive canvas and to get local council permission is impossible if you are an unknown. I bet certain local councils would be queuing up to get Banksy to spray their property with his 'graffiti'.

    • @tentringer4065
      @tentringer4065 Před rokem +7

      It's not Tricky, it's Goldie.

    • @toughlifevirgina
      @toughlifevirgina Před rokem +1

      @@tentringer4065 😆

    • @davedogge2280
      @davedogge2280 Před rokem +2

      @@tentringer4065 lol good one

    • @ilovegot7754
      @ilovegot7754 Před rokem

      But Banksy wouldn't have his graffiti everywhere looking so tacky like that, council's already have artist they hire to paint art pieces in some areas. These boys just make areas look awful and tacky, look at Peckham for example who thought a place like that could look any worse after 2020

    • @repo136
      @repo136 Před rokem

      @@ilovegot7754 - You don't seem to know Banksy's history. Or any other graffiti writer.
      Beautiful murals don't just appear like this, you have to put in many, many hours of work first to get to this standard. Therefore, there will always be lesser pieces on walls. It's evolution.

  • @Monsterism
    @Monsterism Před rokem +5

    Goldie is a super chill dude

  • @ktsmells
    @ktsmells Před rokem +9

    I appreciate graffiti that's made with effort. It's the random, meaningless scribbles (sometimes with profanity) which I hate.

  • @thisislilraskal
    @thisislilraskal Před rokem +1

    That "Love" piece was dope. I wonder where it is now? Would the BBC have kept it & just stored it away? I think it should be in a museum.

  • @weirdgirl04jess14
    @weirdgirl04jess14 Před rokem +11

    As an art student, I am really divided on this argument. For one thing, it can be beautiful and be used as self-expression. There are different types of graffiti, such as: tagging (the one most commonly seen on busses and objects), splash (like what this person is doing) and murals (big, large pieces, usually commissioned by a company or shop, and can be political in nature). Personally, I think graffiti can be really creative and pretty cool to research into, I like seeming it out and about in my town.
    But, there is also an argument about it being a nuisance and being a crime. Which I can also see. True, it makes the surroundings look dirty and disused but the big, bright murals always put a smile on my face and I can appreciate their skill and quick thinking.
    I am only young, so I’ve never had experienced the bad side of graffiti, just the aftermath, so I can’t make a very good comparison.
    Yes it is a crime and can be defacing another persons property, so I completely understand why people would not like it at all. I suppose it depends on the person.
    But I would love to hear more arguments, so please feel free to add your opinions in the replies :)

    • @TinLeadHammer
      @TinLeadHammer Před rokem +2

      I agree. A nicely done mural can brighten up a dull and gray place, but simple tags on buses or trains are ugly and should not be allowed. Splash like this... depends on location and taste, but again, not on public transport. How about buying your own car and painting over it.

    • @OlafProt
      @OlafProt Před rokem +1

      I’d like to see the word graffiti taken back. As an art form. Period. Tagging seems such a lazy, unimaginative and generally just facile “marking out your area (territory)” kind of thing. And is the one that makes an area seem grubby. And should have no connection with the art form. Graffiti art, only enhances I think 🧐 👍🏼👍🏼

    • @scaredyfish
      @scaredyfish Před rokem +1

      I think we need to channel people’s creativity into different avenues, and create opportunities for people to get permission to use walls. You don’t get anywhere with a punitive approach to these things.

    • @ilovegot7754
      @ilovegot7754 Před rokem +1

      ​@@OlafProt they all make an area look grubby no matter what they are painting

    • @deanteasdale8261
      @deanteasdale8261 Před rokem +2

      Laws are stupid blunt instruments. I'd resent someone like Banksy covering the wall of a house I'm living in with art, in fact I'd paint over it, but I wouldn't have a problem with some complete unknown doing graffiti on my wall, as long as I thought it was beautiful. How do you put that into law?
      What about if council put a little QR sticker next to new graffiti, so any passers by could vote on whether they liked it? If more people liked than disliked it within a certain period, it would either be given an official seal of approval or scheduled for removal. This would surely save money? 🙂

  • @sammemrys8195
    @sammemrys8195 Před rokem +8

    Interesting discussion. Permission is the missing element in the young man's argument.

    • @TinLeadHammer
      @TinLeadHammer Před rokem +2

      Graffiti would lose half the fun if it had to be asked for permission first. Do you not understand human nature at all, especially of young people?

    • @sammemrys8195
      @sammemrys8195 Před rokem +2

      @@TinLeadHammer ? Seems you missed the point.

  • @gabriel771100
    @gabriel771100 Před rokem +3

    What about Banksy then? Expensive art or vandalism?

  • @GhastlyCretin
    @GhastlyCretin Před rokem +27

    Any talentless person with spray paint who decides they're an artist shouldn't be able use property that isn't theirs as a canvas. There's not even an argument.

    • @wisteela
      @wisteela Před rokem +3

      This guy clearly had talent though.

    • @GhastlyCretin
      @GhastlyCretin Před rokem +5

      @@wisteela I agree he can paint but I wouldn't want his art on my private property. I also don't think he should be able to do it on public property without permission. Otherwise anybody who thinks they're talented can just go around willy nilly spraying up the neighborhood with their rubbish.

    • @wisteela
      @wisteela Před rokem +4

      @@GhastlyCretin Spot on 👍

    • @repo136
      @repo136 Před rokem

      @@GhastlyCretin - found the Daily Mail reader.

    • @GhastlyCretin
      @GhastlyCretin Před rokem +2

      @@repo136 No, you didn't.

  • @wisteela
    @wisteela Před rokem +5

    Great stuff. If only we had more art graffiti nowadays. That Police guy was really cool about it. Great blast from the past seeing those buses as I used to be from the Birmingham area.

    • @ilovegot7754
      @ilovegot7754 Před rokem +1

      Graffiti artist should buy building and paint on them if they want, but whole areas and peoples shops just makes the area look awful, look at Peckham for example. Who woukd have though a place like that could look even worse after 2020, there is Graffiti on every inch of that place.

  • @toughlifevirgina
    @toughlifevirgina Před rokem +11

    The irony when the officer says it's 'imposed' on people and that people can choose to go into a gallery to see art. How that argument could be used against authority today and the dismissal of the origin of the word 'graffito' is mind-blowing. I bet/hope Goldie is laughing all the way to the bank now!

    • @makara80
      @makara80 Před rokem +7

      The officer isn’t actually wrong though is he…

    • @toughlifevirgina
      @toughlifevirgina Před rokem +1

      @@makara80 I think you've missed my point on the virtue of choice and the implied notion of coercion by authority over the last 2 decades.

  • @ianstrange5674
    @ianstrange5674 Před rokem +2

    The police officer reminds me of Doctor Who- Peter Davison.😁

  • @scaredyfish
    @scaredyfish Před rokem

    You never get anywhere with a punitive approach. The man is quite right that people need opportunities to express themselves.

  • @andromeda303808
    @andromeda303808 Před rokem

    The problem I can see here is that the more property becomes in the hands of private individuals, the more there is social engineering & control over what art & self expression is seen in public; more alienation & disillusionment in the very spaces that should welcome & reflect who WE are

  • @lucasm3879
    @lucasm3879 Před rokem +1

    Drugs really changed Goldie's mannerisms! He was a lot less annoying back then!

  • @michaeldallaway1988
    @michaeldallaway1988 Před rokem +7

    It's been around thousands of years in one form or another. We are not as modern as we think we are.

    • @GhastlyCretin
      @GhastlyCretin Před rokem +6

      Yes, but a thousand years ago if someone put their unsanctioned "art" on another person's property of their own accord they would probably have been killed.

    • @joechapman8208
      @joechapman8208 Před rokem +3

      @@GhastlyCretinIn the 10th century, Vikings left their names crudely carved in the stones of the Hagia Sophia, Constantinople. It's very likely, given the scarcity of Vikings in Constantinople and access to the building, that these were members of the Varangian Guard, a Viking regiment of bodyguards used by the local royal family. Whoever these Vikings were, it seems unlikely they'd have signed their names if they were at risk of death if found out since it would be pretty easy to round up the few Vikings in the area. Vikings also did this to monuments in Greece, where again they'd be in a minority and stick out like a sore thumb.
      There are thousands of examples of surviving graffiti from Ancient Rome, much of it intentionally offensive, which regularly carried the author's name, job, or even their specific rank and regiment of the army. These pieces don't indicate a fear of death, either.

    • @GhastlyCretin
      @GhastlyCretin Před rokem +1

      @@joechapman8208 You mean the Vikings from Scandinavia who invaded and pillaged those areas? You think that they would have left locals vandalize their homes back in Sweden for example? No, they would have lobbed off heads.

    • @michaeldallaway1988
      @michaeldallaway1988 Před rokem

      @@GhastlyCretin the word 'probably' doing a lot of work there.

    • @GhastlyCretin
      @GhastlyCretin Před rokem +1

      @@michaeldallaway1988 Well, let's just say that people have never liked their property being defaced by strangers .

  • @stephenscott6639
    @stephenscott6639 Před rokem +11

    There are lots of positive ways you can ‘leave your mark’ on the area you grew up, but defacing someone else’s property is not one of them!

  • @IntrabuildV
    @IntrabuildV Před rokem +6

    they actually double-teamed him

  • @petergivenbless900
    @petergivenbless900 Před rokem +1

    There is no singular "right" or "wrong" argument here; it is always a process of negotiation where culture and private or public property rights intersect. The covert nature of even accomplished street art is often part of the artistic statement, which many might object to yet, as individual guerrilla artists profiles are elevated through exposure, you will get a "legitimising" effect as a result (as amply demonstrated by 'Banksy').

  • @mikebeatstsb7030
    @mikebeatstsb7030 Před rokem +1

    Wow..!
    Goldie bk in the day

  • @Illustraful
    @Illustraful Před rokem +2

    Pamela Armstrong tho. ❤

  • @bp19870
    @bp19870 Před rokem +6

    Graffiti is art, tagging is a crime. There’s a huge difference

    • @Siouxsi-Sioux
      @Siouxsi-Sioux Před rokem +3

      But it looks like the same crap, doesn't it?

    • @d33j4ybf
      @d33j4ybf Před rokem +2

      ​@@Siouxsi-Sioux
      Nope.

    • @bp19870
      @bp19870 Před rokem +1

      @@Siouxsi-Sioux no, it doesn’t.

  • @bigbenji6
    @bigbenji6 Před rokem +1

    Goldie a bit outnumbered

  • @robbflynn4325
    @robbflynn4325 Před rokem

    Goldie argues his case well here.

  • @legin3753
    @legin3753 Před rokem +1

    does anybody bother with it anymore ?

  • @billy_oceanovic
    @billy_oceanovic Před rokem +2

    Goldie a mf legend !! F authority, graff em all ☝️😎

  • @TinLeadHammer
    @TinLeadHammer Před rokem

    I really appreciate 50p, but not impressed by the deinterlacer. Look at them diagonals in the first 10 seconds of the video, the stair-stepping is quite appalling if you ask me.

    • @Harry-fk5of
      @Harry-fk5of Před rokem

      Not happening on my end

    • @TinLeadHammer
      @TinLeadHammer Před rokem

      @@Harry-fk5of Don't watch on a smartphone, watch on a bigger screen. One might think that the BBC has better deinterlacers than an average amateur. I would like to see smooth anti-aliased lines.

    • @Harry-fk5of
      @Harry-fk5of Před rokem

      @@TinLeadHammer I'm watching on a TV

  • @pifflepockle
    @pifflepockle Před rokem +1

    This is just bizarre.

  • @mattevans3637
    @mattevans3637 Před rokem +1

    Ok goldie you seen this today

  • @BenjyDale
    @BenjyDale Před rokem

    The police superintendent and the cleaner had some fair points, but I think the presenter was rather nasty and narrow-minded by discrediting Goldie's work and similar artistic work as being "threatening" towards her. I'm Team Goldie

  • @mikeymodelle5617
    @mikeymodelle5617 Před rokem +1

    Well, let's be honest, it is vandalism ain't it 😂

  • @TapeLeaks
    @TapeLeaks Před 11 měsíci

    Jeremy Shields, looks like he could be the father of Goldie there are similarities.

  • @paulkearslake
    @paulkearslake Před rokem +3

    Graffiti is just the human equivalent of dogs urinating on a lamp post.
    It is a blight.

    • @repo136
      @repo136 Před rokem +1

      Nope. It's beautiful.

  • @andromeda303808
    @andromeda303808 Před rokem

    Wow really?, the irony of people from countries with a Christian background referring to art based on the word LOVE as menacing is divinely hilarious

  • @tashvadj4914
    @tashvadj4914 Před rokem +1

    Worldomination.

  • @DawlessHouseMusic
    @DawlessHouseMusic Před rokem +1

    OMG Goldie was a graph???

  • @andromeda303808
    @andromeda303808 Před rokem

    Basically as an approach I would suggest putting spray cans, markers, computers/illustration software, instruments/music/broadcasting equipment into the youths hands instead of guns, knives, crack pipes/booze etc! & admit that the system & modern living is toxic to people & especially their mental health or when you get attacked by someone who's lost control don't come crying to us for sympathy, if you believe in every man for themselves cynicism & are blinkered & bigoted to such a degree that you can't understand 'no man is a island' then you're looking for trouble, just don't bring that on the rest of us & drag us down with your folly!, it's not rocket science "Bro". Btw I'm not even a criminologist or in crime prevention! What's their excuse?

  • @the-np4mr
    @the-np4mr Před rokem +10

    Crime, was then and is now

    • @cbarronie2361
      @cbarronie2361 Před rokem +6

      In Spanish cities it makes for beautiful art.
      There's a distinct difference between a talented graffiti artist & a dumb kid tagging.

    • @the-np4mr
      @the-np4mr Před rokem +4

      @@cbarronie2361 nope

    • @cbarronie2361
      @cbarronie2361 Před rokem +3

      @@the-np4mr Hahaha, how very open minded of you

    • @the-np4mr
      @the-np4mr Před rokem +3

      @@cbarronie2361 when you're this correct all of the time, you don't need to open your mind

    • @d33j4ybf
      @d33j4ybf Před rokem +2

      ​@@the-np4mr
      Oh, you're in desperate need of expanding your understanding, as you're only correct in saying that it's currently on the books as a criminal offense.

  • @kamandi1362
    @kamandi1362 Před rokem +7

    Crime.

    • @joshuataylor3550
      @joshuataylor3550 Před rokem +2

      What a well thought out reasonable critical argument.

  • @82fx-
    @82fx- Před rokem +3

    Goldie is actually not the artist he is an actor a pawn we are living in the Truman show everything you think you know you actually don’t if that makes any sense 😂 your whole life has been a lie

  • @Siouxsi-Sioux
    @Siouxsi-Sioux Před rokem +10

    It's a crime and an eyesore.

    • @gump5ter01
      @gump5ter01 Před rokem +8

      It’s subjective. Like people who don’t believe in the bible would say it’s full of racist homophobic nonsense. Just depends on how see things objectively

    • @GhastlyCretin
      @GhastlyCretin Před rokem +5

      ​@@gump5ter01 Crime is objective. It would be criminal if I turned up at your house and spray painted my "art" on it.

    • @gump5ter01
      @gump5ter01 Před rokem +6

      @@GhastlyCretin the eyesore part is objective. Would you be happy if banksy chose your house to paint on ?

    • @GhastlyCretin
      @GhastlyCretin Před rokem +5

      @@gump5ter01 No, why would I be happy if Banksy spray painted my house unless in increased it's value significantly? Would you be happy if I did it to your house?

    • @oscarwilde5473
      @oscarwilde5473 Před rokem +4

      @@GhastlyCretin a ghastly cretin ... 🫣 ... and so it goes ... 🤗 ...

  • @hawsrulebegin7768
    @hawsrulebegin7768 Před rokem

    I like to be naked in public as part of my ‘art’. If I think it’s art then it must be allowed!

    • @tomsheldon4950
      @tomsheldon4950 Před rokem

      You are allowed to be naked in public, it's not illegal

    • @SasquatchAtTheSpaceDisco
      @SasquatchAtTheSpaceDisco Před 9 měsíci

      What's wrong with being naked? That's not the slam dunk you think it is.

  • @lewis7515
    @lewis7515 Před rokem

    _"It corsts them seven hundred and fifteh thowzeand pinds a yaaaaaer!...."_