Why Do Capacitors Fail (Actually, Why Do Capacitors Suck!)
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- čas přidán 27. 07. 2024
- Why Capacitors Fail is a video describing why they breakdown so much quicker than in years past. All capacitors fail due to the heat inside of them. The quality of the capacitors that companies worldwide are installing seem to be inferior to those made decades ago. Wondering how long do capacitors last sort of goes along with that whole “designed obsolescence” theory where companies are supposedly doing this on purpose so customers will have to buy their next run capacitor sooner. It seems like that for a lot of products these days, right?
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0:00 Intro
0:52 Capacitor explained
1:28 PCB's no longer used in capacitors
2:00 Old capacitors were bigger and better
2:41 EIA-456A capacitor test
3:41 The 3 capacitors I will use
4:20 What does 10,000 AFC mean?
4:50 Don't be the man!
5:24 How long do capacitors last? - Jak na to + styl
Capacitors in motors don't act as "storage buckets." They shift the phase to one of the windings up to 90 degrees to create a rotational force that is otherwise not available on single phase circuits. All capacitors do charge up and discharge, but the capacitors in your air conditioner aren't letting out one big oomph. They are charging and discharging 60 times a second, and the charging action is what creates the phase shift. No more power is being put out of the capacitor circuit than is flowing through the main winding. The difference is that the winding on the capacitor has current that is shifted 90 degrees.
So you’re saying that the Capacitor charges or in other words “stores” power, Then Discharges it?
@@codyd3456 yes, but it isn't boosting anything. It's just shifting the phase. It doesn't retain some sort of charge to start the motor. Any charge it maintains when turned off is incidental. It handles alternating current, and so maintaining some sort of mega-charge would serve no good purpose. Its only purpose is to shift the phase of the wave. In a single phase circuit, the current shifts back and forth. All that would do is move the rotor back and forth. It would sit there and hum. The phase shifted current goes to another coil so that you get a 3rd wave that is in between the other two so that instead of 1212121212 you get 123123123123123.
Well, it depends. Units that rely on a start cap actually do use the start cap as the force that provides the oomph (however this is more for commercial refrigeration systems.) But yes, your traditional run cap mostly just acts to imitate a third phase. That's why a start cap comes with an induction relay. So it won't burn out due to the excess amperage.
@@Clasped003 no, the cap causes phase shift for a start winding. That is all. Does not provide any form of electrical spring discharge of any kind, not on any typical AC compressor motor, saw motor, fan motor, or otherwise.
well, there is still AC current flowing through the capacitor so it still get hot.
Great you 'named names' on the good caps, at least I now know what to look for and have a better idea what to avoid
Great video, you are absolutely correct. I still have a few old style caps that would far outlast the new ones of today. Thanks
We were starting to wonder, we’ve had customers mad at us for the cap going out roughly after a few years…now I know what to tell them so they can’t get mad at us.
Just blame it on the EPA.
Telling you from personal experience. Telling the customers about planned obsolescence wont help take the blame off of you. They see you as part of the system that causes the problem. They freak out and look at you for the answer of the magic brand to use. When you can't give it, they see you as the bad guy too.
Ive seen MARS caps go bad within a few years too. Its not that high a guarantee. ALL caps are made cheaper these days.
couple of years? shyt. it last in one year compared to old days capacitor 20 years to 40 years. My god consider the trash from all these failed capacity. my gosh. no wonder the world is filled with trash and toxic. We are no longer using capacitor, we are using trash. These capitalism gonna killed everybody.
Sounds like modern HVAC capacitors need external heat sinks with cooling fins attached to them. Would be pretty easy to do with thermal tape or heat sink paste and hose clamps to hold the heat sink in place. Would be an interesting experiment to see if it would increase the life span.
It will increase manufacturing costs!
@@bobboscarato1313 I was thinking more as an aftermarket upgrade. If it lasts 10-15 years vs. 1-2 years I would think adding an inexpensive heat sink to the outside would be a worthwhile investment. Not to mention the reliability benefits if it works. I have added heat sinks to many components to extend their life/protect them from heat damage. I don't see why it wouldn't work in this application as well.
@@gawkingwatches7988 I'm sure they did their math and concluded it was bad for business; control space is limited and it could complicate their plans!
If you can find a heatsink that can mate against a cylindric surface, let me know.
@@AZRockRunner I've seen them for things like radio controlled car motors so they definitely exist. Would just have to find a supplier that has versions for different diameters.
My Rheem 4 ton unit, which is now 16 years old, still has the original run capacitor. The reason it’s lasted this long is partly because the capacitor is effectively cooled because of the way it’s mounted within an opening in the electrical box area with the body of the capacitor fully exposed to the area where the fan and condenser coils are. I’m assuming they did this for cooling purposes as there’s a lot of air that moves across the body of the capacitor keeping it relatively cooler than it otherwise would be. I’m not going to replace the capacitor, but have a spare on hand just in case.
Amrad turbo 200 capacitors are doing an awesome job for us it seems like if we are going to have an issue with them it’s usually within the 5 year warranty that’s unconditional and we just swap it out with them and move on it’s just about the only 10 year plus capacitor on the market that is universal too 👍🏻👍🏻
This is why we replace all capacitors even in brand new installs with turbo 200 or Amrad metal foil capacitors only. We do not care if the warranty will cover the failed capacitor in one or two years on our customers brand new expensive piece of equipment.
It’s that unpleasant experience for a customer even if it’s only one out 10 or 1 out of 20 customers that may have a failure within the first 2 to 5 years.
We want zero callbacks from a customer for warranty work.
A fail capacitor can cause a condenser motor to burn out or greatly shorten its life still work after they had new capacitors replaced and then the condenser fan fails A few months or a year later that will be a second call from the customer.
Or the capacitor on the motor causing the motor to run hard and overheat until eventually fails and the customer calls but how much damage has been done to those motor windings due to the fact it may have been running for a whole year in a damaged capacity overheating the windings.
So you replace the capacitor in a year or two later the motor fails a short life way before 10 years.
That is why it’s mandatory 100% in our business for our customers we don’t allow that to happen.
Your reputation is on the line. Don’t be like the other guys.
THIS...^^^
More great information, I subscribed after your HVAC brand video. Thank you for all your info and vast knowledge acquired through experience.
I ran across a 45/370 run cap installed and running in a 1951 Sears central A/C. It was the size of my car battery and still tested perfect but today's caps seem to be a seasonal item. Do contactors next, it's pissed me off to no end that manufacturers don't make the contacts visible anymore. The ones made even 10-15 years ago would last the life of the equipment but break open a new OEM contactor after 1 or 2 season's and they are shockingly damaged and pitted
yea , Contactors are crap these days. just like caps. agree.
Less silver - they used to be solid silver points, now they're just coated.
(according to my boss/owner/mechanical engineer)
Everything get cheapened all the time; planned obsolecense!
Obsolescence!
Size of a car battery? What kind of system? Hardly anyone had ac back then and if they did then they were probably wealthy, which I would assume it’s a nicer house. So why wouldn’t someone in a nice house replace a system that is 70 years old
The cheapo, color-coded caps on the new Carrier and Bryant units are getting about 2yrs average - even replaced a few of them around the ONE YEAR mark.
Man, lemme tell ya, customers just LOVE having to call a year or two after dropping several thousand dollars on a new system to 'change a part out' because their condenser is dead and their house is hot - really inspires confidence in the equipment and your company.
I like an "easy" service call as much as the next technician, BUT....
It's sad that we can't rely on these people to spend 10 or so bucks extra to put a quality capacitor in their equipment that's gonna last at least HALF of the warranty period.
I've almost considered just pulling the stock caps and putting in a quality one on all new systems I install...I know I changed the cap on my personal system out after the 1st summer.
Thanks for this excellent explanation!
Thankyou for your helpful videos. Your logic is spot on, and easy to understand. This video about capacitors was so true. Again thankyou my very distant cousin.
Great honest info!
My American Standard unit uses GenTec capacitor. It failed in 9-10 years. I replaced with Titan Pro and it still working after 5+ years. I bought Titan HD for a spare since I though it is a reliable one. The box said it exceed EIA- 456A. Ehh, I don't know who to trust.
When possible I try to buy AmRad capacitors when I can. I keep a couple of Turbo 200 caps on standby as well. The propery that I work for still has some 35+ year old condensing units that contain those old school giant capacitors that are still running strong.
Amazing content, as always Greg!
Thanks brother
Thanks for your candor.
Great info! Which supply houses in Sacramento sell the recommended brand capacitors you mentioned?
My capacitor on the condenser died last year on a Sunday, the hottest day of the year. As a home owner try coming up with a capacitor on a Sunday LOL. I did get a hold of the guy that installed the system and he helped me out. Now I keep a spare on hand.
Good info!
I just had a Genteq fail after 4 years and one month. It blew the top clean off. The Dayton before it lasted 7 years. In all fairness the Genteq was a 370 volt instead of the 440 volt that I should have used. Also, it's in a 25 year old ac unit. I just ordered two 440 volt caps. We'll see how it goes.
Replacing out 20 year old Carrier. It is on the original cap, which is a MARS, made in Mexico, no PCB capacitor. Smaller than new ones, and it hardly has any "rush/corrosion" on it. TXV valve is going, so replacing the entire system. In Florida, so high heat and humidity, but seemed to work well. Of course it has the EIA 456a marking on it as well.
Thanks for the Excellent video ! Totally agree with all the info you just mentioned. I Hope Johnstone watches this video ! all they sell is Titans. they are junk as u mentioned , ive found out the hard way. i started using the genteq. they seem alot better.
I Did not Know about that Standard You mentioned. Thank you for doing the research & Making this Great , informative video & in turn Helping to Make All us Technicians Better & More informed that wish to do the Best job we Can for our customers.
Great Video ! Thanks.
You're awesome OC! Thanks to you too.
The more you sell, them, the more you make. Cheap materials were forced on manufacturers by the EPA because of cancer concerns about the transformer oil used in the earlier units. That is what I've learned. 👍👍👍 to you.
Nice video and very well said! As you probably know, Carrier/ICP came out a few months ago with a TIC indicating why their older caps failed...exactly what you said, but they are replacing the dielectric with Mineral Oil instead of Castor oil and increasing the temperature limits. Guess we'll see if it makes a difference. Agree with using the 3 types you mentioned, except been seeing a few of the USA Mars 440v go out in less than a year. I hope it's just a one off. Thanks for posting!
This is why they also just switch over to thin film foil design usually get your decade plus hands down. Still waiting for my first one to fail hasn’t happened yet
Thanks. Gtk.
@@coldfinger459sub0 Cross your fingers; we are expecting very high temperatures this summer; in Houston Texas it's already 100 F. Measured yesterday at 3 PM!
@@bobboscarato1313 when we hit 100°F in San Francisco California It goes down as a record-breaking day in the past hundred years of recordkeeping lol 😂
San Francisco’s people start to burst into flames and blow away into a pile of ashes when it hits 80°F
@@coldfinger459sub0 Here in the Houston area we have more drive-by shootings daily; police chases thru 3 counties, etc. No fun at all!
aluminum conducts heat better than steel, but the massive size decrease is an issue all around, as well as the other things you pointed out 😉
Any recommendations for a HVAC system where the evaporator will not rust at the copper tube interface? Thanks!
I love the way you think and make business !
The old days a dead capacitor call was rare. They were huge.
Sadly the last MEGA-cap I pulled out of an ancient unit (still reading 40.01µF) wasn't a 45µF or I would have used it on my 2018 Day & Night condensing unit and tossed the 'El Cheapo' color coded one that came in it!
Totally agree
Can you use hard start on scroll compressor?
excellent video! i prefer amrad over mars, ive had problems with mars caps leaking dielectric never with amrad!
Cool. Thanks for letting me know. I actually wish I could find who sells them around Sacramento
@@foxfamilyheatingandaircond4696 i usually have our warehouse manager order them, and he gets them online. I know I have seen them at US Air conditioning before, though they were low on stock.
Just had a Titan Pro 45/5X370/440 that lasted six months. Chinesium garbage. Lesson learned, go with AmRad only...
I like it when capacitors fail, makes for an easy service call
I’ve replaced so many failed OEM capacitors on Carrier (as well as their Day & Night, Bryant, Payne, etc counterparts) units are only a few years old. Carrier seems to pick the worst cheapo caps to put in their systems.
Yes, Also replace them right away with USA Mars, leaving the "blue label" Mineral Oil ones in now just to see if they last any longer, may be a mistake, but we'll see!
Going through the same thing - 2yrs seems to be about average.
You must have picked up some knock-off Titan HD's, I have yet to have one fail and the ones I have in hand have "Exceeds EIA-456a" on the boxes for both condenser and blower motor capacitors. Proper installation is important and even good techs get lazy and install a capacitor any which way just to get a job done. Also, just because a capacitor looks good on your clamp meter doesn't mean it's actually healthy by any means. All capacitors leak electrons internally to some degree and it takes very specialized equipment to determine that leakage. A leaky capacitor can show rated MFD (or even higher) and be completely junk in use.
I have to 100% agree that no HVAC should have the cheap crap on their truck. Why? Because they are getting paid to use their training, experience and professional deeds to the equipment and customer. There is no point in anyone calling in HVAC folks only to receive a DIY quality outcome. Anyone could do that type of work and for much much less. Like in this video, don't put those low end CAPS in your truck and if that's all the supply warehouse has, find another place to buy your parts from who will offer the high grade. I have seen countless HVAC videos made by HVAC folks and they showed how they installed a cheap low quality CAP and called the job fixed like a pro. LOL...I call that fraud especially if the CAP being replaced is a high quality one. Just like condenser fan motors...they pull out the OEM original quality motor and install a cheap rescue type without informing the customer. That is another form of fraud too...
I have also been noticing that many HVAC manufacturers are using inferior CAPs and contactors right from the get go on brand new systems. Are they serious about that?
The businesses that I know that sell Titan pro and Titan HD, sell them at twice the price of Amrad and Mars. Interesting
Also that exploded cap in the video was a capcon I believe.
We use first choice 440v capacitors. They have worked well for us.
I don't think you understand how an AC capacitor works. It does not "Store energy" like a DC capacitor. It simply provides a "phase shift" of 90* to act like a 3rd leg for a short period of time, or consistently - depends on the system.
That was pretty damn good
Good reason to go with an inverter compressor
The plastic caps rheem uses are good. Amrad is quality. The turbos are so expensive they dont make sense for most customers.
the cap in the 1953 Westinghouse refrigerator failed last year now thats a run
Hi, enjoy your videos and information, I had an annual service person come by and tell me needed to replace 2 capacitors for $370 each and need Freon R22 topped off on one unit. He did my neighbor's home and said similarly required a capacitor replaced. I didn't trust him and got a second opinion to inspect who said no need for the capacitor was working fine. He did state the R22 unit was down probably 1 lb of freon and would recommend refilling it otherwise can damage the unit. The cost of 1 Lb of R22 is $375 plus labor $150 which was the service charge to come out, does this sound fair or overpriced, I live in NE CT area. Can you or anyone give me an idea of what would be a fair charge for 1 lb R22 replacement?. The unit works fine and waiting until it is completely failed before replacement. Thank you,
The cost to run a business has gotten very expensive. Especially in highly regulated, highly taxed states like CA. Not sure about where you are. But 300 for a capacitor and 250 a lb for R22. The are alternative refrigerants like R458a or R407c for 150 a lb.
I still have couple tanks for R22 that I bought many years ago. My two units are 14 years old, so those tanks are good insurance. But there are still plenty of R22 around. Those AC licenser can still buy for
R22 is no longer available so does this technician have a large stash in his Van. One pound to charge and top off should maybe cost with labor about $300 at Max
Titan HD (USA) capacitors meet the eid-456-a standard and you say they fail often? There goes that argument.
👍
I was just thinking about replacing the cap in my own air handler in my attic. It's 29 years old. And still working. Though I didn't test to see if it's starting to fail. Good to know about the titan brand.
Wonder why my brand new furnace capacitor smoke first time I turn it on
The main reason is the construction, and the secondary reason is PCB oil, which was widely used in all kinds of applications, including transformers, capacitors, and rail impedance bonds. PCB oil was outlawed a a carcinogen. If that were true, I would be covered in cancer, but I am not. I regularly was up to my elbows in that stuff in the 1970's. So, a less effective oil and cheaper materials make a for a shorter service life. A cheaper capacitor fails more often. A cheaper capacitor allows for new units to cost less to make. Once the cap fails, they can sell you a new one. It's a scam, just like the refrigerant-du-jour.
The box says EIA-456-A compliant 60,000 Hour(s) Reliability. But nothing on the unit!
Yeah, pretty much planned obsolescence. Ive seen em go bad in as little as two years if the heat exposure is bad enough. I'm not an active field tech anymore at the moment, but i began making it a habit to make sure i didnt try to tell the customer that this is expected now from all major brands regardless of the expense of the system. Your 20,000 dollar daikin system will have caps go bad just as fast as the local crack motel that has an oxbox slapped in.
Titan Pro failed after 2 years. Why aren't they using the OEM capacitor - it lasted 14 years.
I wish Japan starts to make capacitors
Lost the capacitor recipe, yeah right, just like how nasa lost the technology to go to the moon again. Great video. Thanks!!
God help us...
AM RAD ?
I agree that capacitor quality has declined. But, this guy makes many incorrect comments.
Such as....?
Okay, and what are they?