Don't WASTE Money Like This
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- čas přidán 20. 03. 2023
- In this video, we're going to discuss what the maximum shutter count on a camera is and why it's important. We'll also give you tips on how to minimize the amount of shutter clicking noise you make, so that your photos will look their best.
Don't waste any more time wondering what the maximum shutter count on your camera should be! In this video, we're going to tell you all about it and explain why it's so important. We'll also give you tips on how to reduce the amount of shutter clicking noise you make, so that you can capture crisp, clean photos every time!
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My 5D mk2 lasted for 1.5 million over 2 shutters before it died. A brilliant camera for it's time.
Thats amazing. I think this one is on its second shutter and I assume it resets the counter when a new one goes in?
Did you send it to get fixed?
Timelapse photographer? 😂
I'll never get rid of my 5d mk2, it's a literal boulder.
@@ApertureApex Dude, here my case: I shot a lot of concerts and events. Every day it's a 1 thousand shots at least. My work is to do a local news in a very little town. So, your camera could die in 5 years or less. And yup, shooter count does matter.
My D700 has been used by me and another wedding photographer since 2009. It is currently in the 900,000 actuation range. To my knowledge the shutter mechanism has never been replaced. It has been used for sports, weddings, commercial work and all sorts of other photography throughout the years, however it is slowly dying now. The shutter mechanism is starting to misfire every so many shots, the focusing motor is taking longer, the cameras grips are starting to peel off. It has been retired from my daily kit, but I still take it out sometimes just for fun. I am hoping it gets to 1,000,000, but it may die before it reaches that number
always good to have a camera to use for the "risky" shots should you need it too
@Tin House Studio that's exactly it. It has now become that camera that if it breaks, it breaks. I generally reserve my other gear for my weddings and other commercial work. The D700 is now my "well I don't want to break that camera, I guess I'll use this one" type of camera.
Take it to a camera repair shop.
would be pretty cool to hit 1m! a friend's dad had a little Toyota pickup with an odometer that turned back over to 0, i think he said it was on its 3rd engine but it was still super fun
@Bruce Le Smith I would really love to see it, but I don't think it will make it. It will most likely stay on my shelf for most of the year and if not most of the rest of its life. But if it ever hits 1 mill I will be extremely pleased with its performance. I am already incredibly grateful to have it. It's served me extremely well over the years.
From what I've observed, the shutter count thing really matters for the older photographer crowd, carrying over from the early digital camera days when the technology was a lot less reliable. I manage a real estate photography team, with nearly 30 Sony A7iii cameras being used full-time hours, with myself having shot real estate consecutively for 4-ish years. Because we shoot 3 to 5 bracket HDR images for everything, most of our cameras are in the 6-digit range in shutter count, with our highest around 400,000 at the moment. The only singular issue I've ever seen in my entire career was one instance of a stuck shutter that was fixed in seconds. (oh yeah, and one employee dropped their camera from 8 feet, but we don't talk about that one)
I always buy older gear because that’s what I can afford. Didn’t even know you could check the shutter count. Important as I research my next purchase.
Your presentation makes a lot of other channels pale in comparison. Big difference between a beginner, someone who’s just trying to be a CZcamsr and really useful information.
I got a 5DII with a ridiculously low shutter count. I added a 5Ds R from MPB with over 100k shutter count in excellent condition. It looks brand new, no blemish, nothing. I'd rather pay a little extra when buying from a vendor like MBP and have a warranty. If it breaks, I hope it breaks within 6 months of usage. No issue then.
100% agree with everything you said.
The tip regarding the static bringing the dust in, alone, was worth the watch.
I've had three shutters blow out and each time the failure came after extended burst shooting at the highest burst rate. I think FPS stresses cameras out more than total mileage. If you are shooting with strobes in the studio your frame rate will be tied to the recycle time of the flashes and you can shoot in single release all day long. A studio camera will last much longer for this reason.
Friction creates heat, this means that tolerances get lower, which creates more friction thus, even more heat. Bursts are clearly very demanding for cameras. Short bursts are no problem, but long burst multiple in a short time will crearly decrease the shutter life
True! We got old d300s attached to 1990 photogenic strobes with 2.5 sec recycle times.
I dont know... I shoot street sports competitions and we use burst shooting all time, it is normal in this business to take over 10k photos in less than 3 hours, so Id say thatd be pretty demanding on the shutter, yet most of my and my coworkers cameras easily reach the 500.000 actuations...
@@Panturga Wow. Hard to argue that one should be concerned with that either then.
I like the gear enthusiasts switching to mirrorless. Gave me an opportunity to snatch up a used d810 from a selection of 12 different d810s had a shutter count of 45k or so and it was in good shape. And I still have my entry level d3200 from 10 years ago for astro.
I agree with you that you have to look at more than just the "milage " of a camera body. I am just a hobbyist and can only afford to buy used gear. A little common sense used in making a purchase can take you a long way to getting some great quality gear. With a little homework and some patience I was able to equip myself with all the studio gear I could ever use and some great bodies and lenses. Since I have retired, photography is favorite pass time.
I work at a wedding studio in the New York area, The owner let me have his old 5d mark iii. 700k shutter count and it still works like a dream, half the paint is missing and the joystick is gone but hey it still works.
I don't use it for paid work I obviously don't trust it, but I've already put a year's use into it and will until it kicks the bucket. Saves me from beating on my wedding gear unnecessarily. Cheers
Nice work. You have a natural & easy way. Perfect 🎉 thank you for sharing
It depends whether you're buying for work or fun. If it's for kicks and clicks, pro bodies with massive shutter counts can be picked up seriously cheap, often from dealers and with some sort of warranty. Wouldn't rely on one to pay the mortgage, but for fun, absolutely.
Thank you very much for this video and your insight and perspective not only on shutter count, but also on the way you view and deem all cameras to be of use. There was no condescending nor segregation of camera brands. That is one of my biggest pet peeves, when people look down at others for having the latest, and supposedly greatest camera and gear. Thank you so much.
great video...Thanks for sharing, and I didn't know about how high the shutter count should be to replace the shutter in my camera.
Thanks for your observations on shutter count. I do real estate photography and a while back sold my 5d MKiv (upgraded to the R5). The camera was working perfectly (even shutter sounded like new), but for some reason I couldn't get the shutter count before selling, but I assumed 250k or so. The gentleman who bought the camera sent it in for service at Canon and let me know that the shutter count was more than 450k. For reference, while perhaps not pristine, I did take good care of the camera, kept it clean and never dropped or banged the camera, so it looked pretty nice other than the usual use scratches on the rear screen and paint rubbing off.
This is the most helpful video I've seen in this subject. The cameras I use is a Canon rebel xs which I've had since 08. It still works well and my main camera is a Canon rebel t7 I got in 2021. I use it lots everyday.
Thanks for a useful and expert opinion on this topic. Evil Bay seems to only focus on that one iffy metric. And your advice about too low is spot on, you avoid infant mortality all electronics/mechanical devices can encounter.
Lot's of great knowledge here. For me, my cameras are tools. I don't "slide them across the ground".. lol But they do get banged around much more than most photographers I know. For me, the biggest thing is having enough revenue from the camera that you can accrue a budget for another comparable camera. Always keep at least one backup body and lens. Shutter counts are noticed when shopping but aren't a deal breaker/maker either. Thanks for the video!
sony a7r3 currently at 1, 809, 821
I bought into the Sony system around when the A7III came out. At that time I bought a new open box unit; it only had damage to the box. I didn't start using it heavily until a couple of years ago, when I started using it to create content for a band. Last year I bought another as a backup (and to have two different lenses mounted when I shoot a concert). I bought that one used from a company that only purchased it to take some photos for a website, so it had less than 5100 shots on the shutter, and never having been used outside, the body was pristine.
Been rocking a D200 (bought from a small clothing store that used it for online shop photos) and a D7000 (bought new) for a decade. Handed down the D200 to a friend, as it developed minor shutter issues in the cold but is still working to this day, which is amazing for being a 17 years old camera used in all kinds of situation including under the rain. The D7000 was sold to a local photographer and is still working like the first day. Replaced it all with a barely used a7R II since I've been only shooting for myself, although I may start doing it for work occasionally so I might pick up another Sony body. This one I got was cheap, barely 3k actuation but, most important of all, was pristine. These cameras are prone to chipping paint just by looking at them, so seeing it in such good state it meant it was truly barely used and was well taken care of. In the end, if you are truly serious about photography, you'll always end up spending much more in lenses so bodies become somewhat disposable.
I still have and use a D200. It does Flesh Tones far better than any Nikon after that. Might be the CCD rather than the CMOS used after. I briefly also had a D7000, I didn't like it, for the change in colour from the D200, plus it was just too Tiny to hold comfortably. I got rid of it, and continued with the D200 for another couple of yrs till I got the D800, which was still poorer in colour, same with the D810. The D850 gotclose Colour wise, but otherwise, it was the Worst Camera I ever owned. I was very happy the Day I got rid of that POS.
A good subject for a YT video!
Electronic shutter actuation is not specifically mentioned here though.
I'm not considering any image quality differences but if a photographer uses (pick any number) 15fps of "Spray and Pray” shooting the daily count increases by up to 15x. Obviously, the total number of actuations quickly becomes a very high number. Each actuation/shot still adds to the count without the mechanical wizardry of the shutter. Camera manufacturers may log electronic and mechanical counts as separate values but this is data I do not get access to.
For myself, I keep only a lazy eye on the total number of actuations tallied but I'm hawk-eyed on the cameras' functionality. Retiring a camera once it becomes unreliable is an eventuality, even if successful repairs have been made previously.
Good rational way to look at it!
As an amateur thanks for your experience and logic
I got my first Canon FF this month. A 5D with 1600 shutter actuations.
What they say is true. It takes beautiful images. Better than Nikon's D3 IMO.
Outstanding! Thanks
Very interesting. Thanks. I am trying to sell my Nikon and a buyer withdrew when i showed him 17,500 shutter actuations as he thought this was very high. Good to know that its actually not high at all.
Your point about new cameras having higher potential for failure is well made. All engineers learn about the ‘bathtub curve’ of device failure - whereby initial failure rate is high due to manufacturing defects… drops to a low level during the useful life… then raises again as wear takes its toll.
If you can get a dentist or stockbroker to pay for the initial failures and depreciation, then pick the camera up used when they move on to the next upgrade it sounds good to me!
Yeahz thats why I'd be more worried about a 5D II with 7k on it versus one for much less money with 250k. Sure you might not get 250k out of the second one, but the chances of the first one failing in the next 50k is possibly higher.. no warranties.
I'm just a hobbyist, but I've always preferred buying used. I'm worried less about shutter actuations unless they're really low (suspicious) or really high. I recently picked up a lovely D700 with around 150k actuations. That told me it had really been used in its life, but not to death, and it also hadn't been abused. (The owner claimed it had been back to Nikon for a shutter and overhaul, though I have no way of knowing if that's true.) It's totally solid, and the odds of my adding even 50k actuations to it are pretty slim, but it's a lot of fun to shoot with and I figure it will last me a long time!
A year ago I bought a D5300 with around 5K shutter count, used it a lot until I got a D850. D850 came to me with 2215 shutter count and I have been having problems with it, but these problems turned out to not be shutter related(SD card issue - half image either from up or bottom or from one side gets blackened out), and this happened rarely. I did some research, but I hope it's not the shutter. However I need to add that D850 is cosmetically in pristine condition and that issue occured after I added aftermarket grip to it(some people on forums state that is the issue). Seller was honest, and provided all information I asked for including a receipt and box. Camera was bought brand new by him when it came out.
I get your point on extremely low shutter counts, but I didn't want to overpay for q high mileage unit which some sell for the price of a new unit.
Thank you! I never thought much about shutter count, except for possible leverage when haggling about the price. I rather buy a studio used camera in great condition with loads of actuations than the opposite. Whenever I see a camera that looks like it has been dragged after the car, I pass on it. Especially if it’s newer than 5 years. Newer cameras that are heavily worn have probably had a hard life in all aspects. On top of that, I rather buy gear from old geeks like myself, than from young soon to be recognised action photographers. And finally, people who save the original packaging and all the unnecessary cables have probably taken good care of their kit. Not stolen either. I would never buy an expensive camera without its charger. Too high risk of being stolen.
Retired my 5d mk3 with 250,000 actuations on. Shutter was fine but had a few corrupted captures and checked memory card and that was not the culprit so retired it. Good work horse!
My 7d Mk1 has 90000 actuations and I love it to bits. Heavy as all heck but solid and part of my hand.
7D mk1 shutters go forever. Absolute tank of a camera
I work in film/TV & it's rare for cinematographers to own their own (digital) cameras. One reason is cost, the other is evolving deliverables spec from the streaming platforms, networks & digital cinema package (DCP).
The rental companies will supply to your demands & if you are filming away from your base, it's not unusual for the rental company to also supply you with a spare camera body (minus accessories).
Great video. My Nikon D2H lasted for about 15 years, and it didn’t die because of a high shutter count. I was cleaning it and broke the mirror mechanism.
I decided it was time to buy a replacement and I bought used, just as I’ve done for 37 years as a pro photog.
I think you did yourself a little disservice saying you didn’t take care of your field use body. I think you recognize that one is built for taking bomb blasts, and one is not. That’s something I always tell my students - that is and when they ask why there is such a price difference in camera bodies. Some camera bodies cost $1000, whereas other might cost $3-5,000 or more. The difference is a plastic housing versus a titanium/steel housing.
I really like your opening statement, and I’m totally paraphrasing here, that it doesn’t matter what camera one uses. I always tell my students that the most important tool in their “photographic tool box” is their knowledge.
Use them , don’t abuse them 👍keep well & stay safe 🇬🇧
Thank you for the common sense about shutter count. I have never purchased a used camera. When I move on from a camera, I have donated them to student clubs or other non-profit good causes.
I’m a person who doesn’t use their camera professionally (ie. My camera doesn’t actively earn me money), but more as an enthusiast / hobbyist, so it was disappointing when my Lumix GH5 shutter mechanism completely failed and actually broke into pieces after a burst shot moment with only around 30k actuations. This really opened my eyes though to the fact that shutters can fail at any time and anywhere, regardless of the number of actuations (and how well the camera was taken care of: took it on safari once, and that was the harshest environment for it in my usage). Now I’m debating whether I should pay for the repair (as of yet an unknown cost), or try and sell the (somewhat defective) camera and get something else. By the way it’s just the mechanical shutter that failed, I can still take perfectly good video and e-shutter photos.
Compare repair price with other models price
@@CybertroninfiniteOfficial yea that’s the plan, although I’m betting it’s gonna cost more to upgrade to something like the new Lumix S5ii than to repair my old one
@@mattshalash true, whatever you feel is better or gets you more motivated
My 5D mk3 had 372.000 actuations on it. Another one I saw had 500.000+ actuations on it and it is still working perfectly. My actual 5D IV has ~140.000 actuations, from my experience I now consider it as a "low-medium" mileage. As I read in the comments and as I was told also the bursts at the higher rate can affect quite a lot the shutter life, if the camera is used mainly with the burst mode I expect to have a low shutter life.
I did see it, great information and I will consider the shutter in future purchases
"Rant Over" that mad me :-)
I do check mine from time to time - just because i think it is fun :-)
As I'm no professional photographer i dont rack up shutter counts all that much.
I only had one camera fail on me, that was my d700 around 60K shots or so.
I think after over 8 years my D810 is around 40K - it may outlast me I come to realise.
My D50 has something like 30K since I bought it new in 2005 - and I still use this one.
I always buy second hand nowadays. Not a pro but I have bought some "classic" Nikons in very good cosmetic condition with a low shutter count for good prices.
I wish I needed this particular camera but I already have one. Two old Nikon D3100, 12 megapixel, shoots 1080p video, described as mint one with a shutter count of 500, the other 1000. £78.00 each with a years warranty from a UK nationwide camera shop. Both gone within a couple of days. Ideal present for a beginner.
Keep your eyes open online for second hand gear.
I have my Nikon Df with 577,000 ish shutter actuation, use it for travel mostly, and it runs perfectly normal with no issue at all. Never got replaced, never have any issue regarding the shutter mechanism. I never cared about shutter actuation, as long as your camera is a pro-grade body, and being treated properly, have a go for it.
I’ve owned all four of the 5Ds. When I bought the Mark II, the bloke brought it to the meet-up spot in a plastic grocery bag, but it looked like it had just been taken out of its box. Ten years old, and perfectly pristine. Must have lived its whole life on a tripod in a studio.
The Mark III was the absolute opposite. 170,000 actuations, and looked like it had been to war. Most of the white paint in the engraved logo on the front had been worn away. Guy who sold it was a photojournalist. I’m a little romantic about that camera today, wish I’d kept it as a museum piece.
Had a D5100 at 51K count and it performed like brand new. My D7000 is at 34K so I got a lot of mileage to go! But maybe now I wont care about getting a pristine D800 with low shutter count just want one that looks 9/10 and comes with some goodies :D
I use 2 canon 5d mk2’s for wedding videography. Absolutely fantastic camera, workhorse and built like a tank. 1 has 42,000 actuations and the other over 100,000 and they are both fine.
All makes absolute sense. But for hybrid cameras I do worry about the impact of video, which doesn't raise the actuation count, but does mean all the electronics have been heated up and cooled down a lot.
On the topic of used gear, some years ago I replaced a 1DX with a 1DXII, trading in the 1DX plus cash with a large online store that specialises in used gear. The shutter count was listed around 10k and after checking myself once I'd received it that was correct, however, when I tried to register the camera with Canon Professional Services I was told I couldn't as it was a grey import (Hong Kong). After explaining I'd bought it used and where I'd bought it from Canon graciuously allowed me to register it, though it wouldn't be warrantied. Fortunately I never had a problem with but in retrospect I should have sent to back as essentially I'd been overcharged for an item that was bought new for less than I paid for it and had no remaining warranty other than a few months with the camera store. There are other conclusions I could draw from this that I'd better not mention here, but I've never bought from them again because of that. caveat emptor.
thanks, really helpful and making a lot of sense. Consider this, though: I know a bunch of hobby photographers, with expensive gear, who continuously upgrade, and sell their stuff, and none of it has more than 20 000 actuations IF that. I believe this group fires the used camera market more than the professionals. (2 friends selling their D850 and 780 to go mirrorless, for ex).GOOD point about tax write-off. It is like buying a new car.drive it off the dealership it is - 25% in value from one minutento the next.
bought 2 cameras last year. One I bought as a camera, D7200 with around 4k shutter. It was about 400$ equivalent for almost unused camera. Second was Sony Alpha 230 i think (dont remember, had it for just a moment), it had shutter count under 400 and was basically free in bundle with a lens I was actually buying.
I have found out that in my country used markets have either low shutter count (under 25000) or heavily used (150000+), rarely anything inbetween. And I always require to try gear prior to purchase on used market (at least for basic functions) which disqualifies markets like e-bay. Therefore I am aiming for those with low shutter.
Hi there. I bought a Canon 1dx with less than 37000 on the shutter, body in excellent condition for around $580. Pretty good deal. Love this big body. Gonna keep it till it dies.
Bath tub failure model. Initial failure rate because of faulty parts/engineering - later failure rate increases because parts gradually wear out. The Mean Time Between Failure (MTBF) is an indication of longevity but cannot be any indication of when anything will fail. This applies to everything from hard drives to aeroplane parts and includes shutters. As far as me with shutters, I shoot in two ways - if I'm shooting products, I tend to set up and try to get it right then shoot - this comes from my days using RB67ProS where you have 8 shots on a 120 roll. If I'm shooting people (as opposed to a person, for example, if I'm covering a demonstration where you have people and flags and banners et cetera), I will likely shoot at 11fps and pick the one where things are in the right places and so on so in that instance, the shutter will be used heavily although it is a between the lens shutter.
So, If you are lucky enough to be the person who bought my 90mm Mamiya Seiko RB67 lens, you will know that the shutter will be relatively underused.
BTW, I prefer between the lens shutters because of the flash sync - on my Leica, I can take a shot with a flash at 1/4,000th second so the shutter speed is essentially a dial-in-the-ambient-light controller.
I bought a Sony A7iii a couple years ago that was used in a studio. Only looking at the camera I wouldn't know that it had 270,000 actuation because the condition is just perfect. I ended up paying about 1300 CAD for the camera, which is a LOT less than the average second-hand price these go for, and the seller even gave me a free Sony vertical grip which I sold for $200. In the end I had a perfectly fine camera for $1100, and I bought a new battery for it to give it a "fresh start". It lasted me a couple years travelling around Canada, and last winter when I went to China, I had the shutter mechanism replaced in Shenzhen for about $100, and I can probably keep using the camera for another 5 years. Absolutely the best purchase I have made, and it was a steal because no one wanted to buy the 270,000 actuation camera.
I just ordered a used 5D Mark 2 with roughly 37,000 shutter count looks very clean shipping handling and taxes came to 340 US dollars. Plan to pair it with a 17-40 Canon lens that I've been using with my old SL2. I was a pro in the 80s with film and view cameras thinking it might be fun to do some work again. Maybe modifying a view camera to have a digital back think I'll miss the swings and tilts if I don't 😁
I highly respect you old film guys. I always loved taking pictures back then too, as a father raising his kids. Man... I still remember having to decide between the 12 exposure or 24, or 36. It all came down to.... did I have the cash. Lol.... Update: My wife started taking up photography in early 2020. We got her a Canon 6d Mark ii and she took off with it.... Zoom!!! Recently I bought her a nice used Nikon d7200 as a backup camera as she has already shot her first wedding. Now, we've ordered her a Canon R with nd filter adapter. She wants to be a pro, so when she retires from teaching she has some income. I'm so proud of her! Cheers....
@@thommysides4616 get the adapter so you can use the EF lenses on the Canon R there's more used glass out there at great prices in the EF mount.
Had over 1mil on my D5. Purchased 6/2016. Had it serviced in December because of a focus issue. Otherwise zero problems.
I recently purchased a second hand Panasonic TZ20 point & shoot with a shutter count of 2,500 and I also bought and Samsung NX1100 with 9,450, both were really cheap (I think these cameras were manufactured around 2012-2014) non of them have mechanical shutters like DSLRs but the Samsung camera was definitely in worse shape than the Panasonic, so I totally agree that we should be looking at how the previous owner used the camera rather than what shutter count it has.
I have an A7R III with over 150 000 shutter actuations. Still works like charm!
We use hours of use in cinematography but I get you. I look more at power cycles. Personally, I've had issues with Canon's warranty department. So much so that I will not use their products anymore. We have too many choices now. I think it's also important how the company stands behind their products. In photography, I've had a great experience with Nikon and Panasonic whereas Canon treated me terribly. I'm in Sothern California where we don't use humidity cabinets either. It just needs to work. Work every day. I can't afford for gear to fail on set.
It’s really amusing to hear about these dizzying shutter counts and fear of failing cameras. My ten years running a commercial studio through the 1970s left me with an archive of around 100,000 negatives. I did something like 20-30,000 colour chromes on top of that, which went straight to the clients and out of my reach, but it all adds up to about 1,000 exposures a month. All done with only TWO camera bodies - one large format and one Hasselblad, each with four lenses (and three extra backs for the Hassie). None of it ever failed, and I’m ashamed to say I never had any of it serviced. It just kept working for ten years without a hiccup, despite doing both studio and field work, and I can honestly say I never worried about it. I had lights crashing to the ground and flash packs blowing up, but my cameras and lenses just soldiered on.
I admire that you can run a studio for a decade with only 100k shots. These days, with modern cameras and massive hard drives, I easily shoot 10k photos in a single night of doing event
photography. As I become a better photographer, I'm sure that number will go down, but so often only one of the 20 frames of a particular pose or move will be any good. I suppose studio work is rather different, but still, it's a different world now.
@@HypherNet Yes, there are two factors each making a huge difference. One is film vs. digital, the other is social vs. commercial work. I did occasional event work for some of my commercial clients, but even then, with 12 shots per film, there was no way I could have got away with thousands shots of one event. A hundred, more like.
Even today I rarely “spray and pray” but use some sixth sense to sniff out the right moment. It’s very hard to explain, and I have to admit that it doesn’t always work, but it mostly does - and besides, it’s no longer my living.
The other difference is that commercial work, then and now, is usually carefully planned and does not rely on capturing the moment. You could say we make the moment come to us rather than the other way round, so the reason for a commercial photographer to shoot a lot of frames could be to experiment with lighting or to capture some action or other. With 5x4 chromes costing at least £50 a click (in today’s money), no-one did that back then.
I’m not saying one is better than the other, just different ways of working determined by the media you work with. I love the freedom and immediacy of digital (and, btw, don’t think film was superior in any significant way). The difference is much like the difference between the wet collodion plates of the 1800s and the film of the 1900s. Each era of photography has had its own opportunities and challenges, and photographers have always had to adapt. That’s one of the things that make photography interesting, I think.
@@HypherNet my photographic background is from before digital really took hold.
There was one noticeable thing with technique between 35mm and medium format with only 12 shots per film.
By having to think about every shot you made on medium format and make it count resulted in a better end result.
If you take 10000 shots at one event it must take forever to edit.
What I would give..... to have a beer with you! The stories you would tell...... lol.
@@senseofthecommonman My wife spends days, and sometimes weeks editing an event that lasted only hours, and sometimes only minutes! But she's also a full-time teacher....ha ha!
Agree. I've been saying for years whenever this topic comes: Would you buy a car with 25,000 miles from a maintenance freak guy who only used it for grocery shopping or an otherwise similar 10,000 miles car but frequently taken to a race track? Shutter count is like mileage. Useful information but not the only parameter to consider.
Love sentiment of this. I definitely think looking for a camera that has had an easy life is the best option. I personally bought a fairly heavily used Sony a7 R2 in like 2016 or 17, and it was perfect... until I smashed the viewfinder glass on a trip to Germany, and broke the rear screen in another trip. Does it work still... yes.... could I sell it... nope.... how high is it's shutter... doesn't matter (it's now just a backup that I take on important trips). I personally would rather use and abuse cameras trying to get my shot. I don't make my living through photography... but man... I think your studio cameras are always going to be a better deal than mine given what I expect mine to do (I almost dropped one over the side of the boat while photographing whales earlier this year).
It's what engineers call "Infant Mortality" If something's gonna break, and it's down to a production issue it will break sooner rather than later. If it soldiers on and keeps working it'll have a very long life.
Thanks for sharing. I didn’t know there was a term for it
@@TinHouseStudioUK Cameras, hard drives, and almost every electronic or mechanical device all face Infant mortality and the entire 'bathtub curve' en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bathtub_curve in terms of failures. FWIW, my only failure was at around 15,000 on a Canon 1D Mark II, which supposedly had a mtbf of 400,000. Canon replaced it for free. My others are all at 100K+ and still working fine--but I do mostly shoot in studios in friendly-to-human conditions.
I've also heard of the "bathtub curve" referring to higher initial failure rates (manufacturing problems, as you say), then a quiet midlife when the parts are within their designed durability, then an increasing rate of failures as parts start to wear out.
I photograph sports and use a lot of shutter actuations. The cameras used are Nikons. I have blown shutters, the most were 3 in a year ( about 1.3 million). Never had a shutter blow before 500 thousand unless it was replaced. Replacement shutters on a Nikon don't last as long, replacements last about 350k. It is true that a piece of dirt can damage a shutter prematurely because they are extremely thin material, every body i owned lasted over 500k. The mirror box will need to be replaced after about a million photos. This is what I learned since the D3 was first released. The only body we had issues with (shutters) was the Nikon D2h.
thanks, good to know that a canon with >70k actuations might be a go-er and could be an ok used purchase. i would've shied away from something like that based on other folks being worried about too many shutter slaps
It's nice to have camera with low shutter count.
I bought canon eos 1ds mark II with 40k actuations... And i have been enjoying this camera for 10+ years.
My eos 1dx mark II was bought with 200k actuations, but it's a half of shutter lifetime.
For sure it's important how camera looks :)
Thank you! Shutter count is even more useless considering video use or mixed video and still use.
My 5d3 has about 340k and my 5d4 has 380k so far. The rubber is peeling and has so many dings and scratches from being dropped a few times. The shutter hiccups once in a while but so far so good. i do wish I had a camera that can record 4k without a crop so I might eventually cave and get a r5 or r6m2
On a large shoot with multiple sets I saw another photographer working who told me they shot 3,000 frames per day (FPD) and hoped for 2 or 3 great images in there. At that rate, 140,000 frames translates into some 46 shooting days. A shutter for a million should not be an exception in pro bodies, in this light, and prosumer ones maybe half that?
How much wear a camera has to sustain, however, does not relate to FPD in the way you would expect. Those 3,000 mean that the skin will wear off, but the camera will never fall because the shooter has it in their hands all the time ;)
In my old film days, with 35mm and (real) medium format, a couple hundred shots per day was huge and at large format that number likely stayed under 10 at 8"*10", or maybe 20 at 4"*5". We might waste a Polaroid test shot (*), though, to check exposure worked out the way we imagined.
If you imagine the underlying thought process being applied still today, then you can imagine that in my cameras the shutter count stays very low. With 3,000 FPD, there's model-directed shooting, hours of culling and starring. And nervously hoping there will be a great shot in there. In my case, it's a matter of directing and composing the frame, firing a shot and bam, it's what I need and want.
There will be the incidental test shot to check - say - light ratios in the studio, but I don't need that and it just is a camouflage way to make under the radar portraits of people in their relaxed-I'm-not-posing mode, as overture to the "real" thing.
My biggest worry is not the shutter, but the lubrication in lenses or their motors that would harden in case of infrequent use, or the capacitors in flash kit that need frequent use to have a longer lifespan.
As to 3,000 FPD, in the past we worried about wasting too much film and processing costs. It was all about the decisive moment and how to manage towards that. Waste had a real component: film and chemicals and time and money and logistics. Today we may waste "pixels" (a raw file has no pixels and neither has a Bayer-architecture sensor - because none of these have RGB) and think nothing of it. While we forget our time in our post office. But shutter count is as real as wear and replacement repair jobs. Does this mean we have to always work the old-fashioned way? No, when I take group shots, I fire more than way back and there are other examples too. In some cases I rely on eye-AF and fire more often.
(*) I was led to believe that US artist Norman Rockwell used Kodachrome slides as starting point in his art work. His colour palette harks back to the original version of that film, IMO. It was not available in larger than 35mm confection, though, and how then would you shoot Polaroid test shots, if you shoot the real thing with a Nikon or Leica on 35mm film? Well, simply buy a Hasselblad with a Polaroid back. And that will work for decades.
had a Panasonic G9 which I bought at 572 000ish on the shutter , since I don;t shoot sport I am normally not ridding the shutter, added another 200 000 with myself using it, then I sold it again, the lady that bought it from me a few year back still posts photos she is taking on hiking trips and such, that little shutter is sure as hell lasting the extra mile, currently I have a new Fujifilm XH2 with about 2000 on the shutter
Shutter count is important, but only when factored in with the descriptions. I recently purchased a used 70D, with a shutter count of 5000 and it looks like new, however I wouldn’t have bought it second hand without a warranty though and often the difference in price between EBay and somewhere like WEX or MPB.
Both of my Canon 1dx's have over a million on the clock, battered to hell but still working
It depends also on the model. I bought a used Nikon Z5 from MPB. It has 5500 actuations. That's very little, but Z5 are a model susceptible to be upgraded soon by many that want things that the Z6 or Z7 offer and Z5 doesn't.
I have a 7D with which I’ve been shooting 2010. Shutter count is just south of 500k. This year it started to sound like a baby’s rattle when you shake it, so I purchased a used 6D Mk II with 9k on the shutter. Still shooting with the 7D, but only because I have a bunch of crop sensor lenses.
I recently purchased the canon t3i from Swappa and honestly it’s like mint condition no scratches or anything it only has 922 shutter counts & I paid $114 for it
I shoot and have been shooting Fujifilm for 7 years now. I currently shoot professionally albeit not high end on a XT2 and XT3. Fuji in these models don't really have shutter count. It shoots perfectly find for me and for the work I want to do. As for video I need something better but not right now with the low frequency of video work I do, I'd rather get a wide AF lens which I don't have and been shooting with a manual wide more often now. I will say the Fuji's don't seem to hold up as well as the old dogs who have been making work horses, but also, I'm quite invested in the system. I hope I can move up to a work level where I do have a Fujifilm medium format setup and a cine setup, but that is much much MUCH later and much much much higher paying jobs which I don't have right now.
Tin House Studio Hi, great info here. You mentioned lightroom and 5D mk1 shutter count. Can you elaborate more on how this is achieved? Thanks
What he meant is that he looked in his lightroom library and only counted the pictures made by the 5d mk1.
So only accurate if you upload all your pictures to your PC.
My 1Dx2 just had it's shutter and mirror box replaced at 230k actuations. I bought it used back in 2017 with 5k actuations. I primary shoot sports so the camera has a few knocks here and there but never dropped. It has been through 40C+ temps, dust, rain and snow. I have the camera set to either high continuous (limit to 10 fps) or low continuous (limit to 5fps). When I shoot action I would shoot in high speed burst between 2-5 shots. Other times I would just set to low speed continuous and shoot single shots. When my 1Dx2 is having my shutter and mirror box replaced I asked the canon tech whether 230k actuations is low for the 1Dx2. He says it is rather low for the 1Dx2 but not surprisingly low even though the expected life is 400k actuations. He also says the contributing factors could be dust getting into the camera and/or high speed continuous shooting.
One of my friends had his 6D shutter replaced at around 10K actuations, which is very low IMO. Another person I know had a 1Dx which has over 1 million actuations using the original shutter and mirror box. I think he bought it new and shoots in the studio using only single shot mode.
I bought a used Nikon Z6 2 w/ a 290 shutter count.It now has about 7000 shutter count.Still good.
Back in the 80's I shot photojournalism. At that time everyone shot with a Nikon F3 with a battery grip and NIKKOR manual focus lenses, usually a 20mm or a 24mm. We shot TMax 400 pushed to 800 and bulk loaded are own film. Zone focusing was life back then. As soon as any photographer got a "new" camera the first thing they would do is "brass is up". This way they made it look like a "photojournalists" camera. Just google search any Nikon F3 add and you'll come across one that is all beat up - that is how our cameras looked. I honestly have no clue on shutter count of my cameras. I never replaced a shutter to my knowledge and we blew through a lot of film. Every photographer treater their camera as a "tool" and not something to be traded in later. Most older ones where retired to backup duty or sold the the new incoming intern at a reduced cost. I recall on one shoot we raced out of the building to run down to the state capital and the photographer I was with tossed his Nikon F3 into the back seat like a old rag doll. Hell one time we even drove nails into wood scaffolding in order to climb up to get the shot.. While today I'm a computer geek and only take pictures for fun I miss the days of the darkroom and racing to meet the deadline.
Sometimes even cameras that look like they have been dragged through a warzone end up being the camera that works while the one that looks more like a studio camera is broken... Case in point I have two nikon d1 bodies the one that looks like it is in good condition has something wrong internally, possibly a bad sensor, resulting in black lines through the image
The one that has grips falling off, scratches everywhere and a cf card door that falls off when you pop the latch works fine (other than one top button that does not seem to work so I can't change my focus point or set the date/time)
Also it's one of those cameras you just can't get a shutter count from unless you send it to nikon
I had a Canon Rebel XTi or 400D for well over 10 years ... I have no idea how many actuations it had but it had to be well over 150K. I was shooting portraits and live music and I had good glass and this cheap camera body. The only reason I eventually upgraded was I was buying batteries that wouldn't hold charges and eventually I surpassed the value of the camera with batteries. I went full frame for my next camera and I was disappointed that I lost quite a bit of reach on my 70 - 200 going from the APSC to full frame. Oh well I hope my new camera lasts 10 years.
It's tricky now with Electronic Shutter, I know my Sony has around 320K but the camera only register 3K since I barely use the mechanical shutter. The Nikon Z9 is fully electronic the shutter is infinite but buttons break on cameras, main reason I had to buy a new camera since the dial cripple on my canon 5D II.
Shutter counts are of some Interest as to the Use of a DSLR, however in this Day of Mirrorless, Operational Time will become important, as the Sensor is always exposed to Light, and the long term Degradation to the Sensor and/or Filters in front is not well known. Because of that, and the fact that a Hot Sensor will weld any Contaminates to it very well, I keep the Camera off until I am ready to shoot. I take the Shot, then turn it off again. As for Video, I wish they made my Cameras, the Z9 and D850, in Videoless versions. Could get rid of a lot of Menus that way
Dust or fingers on a shutter will shorten its lifespan.
Always change lenses facing down to avoid dust.
You always tell a studio camera - the port cover doors are usually removed for convenience.
My Nikon D4 is about to pass the 1,000,000 click count but is is a pro level camera ... 🦘
I bought my D3S from MPB with around 278k on the original shutter. I've calculated that it should last me many years as long as I have the battery power to use it.
Mirrorless cameras have an advantage regarding shutter count. My EOS R5 has a shutter life expectancy of 500,000 which is great, but I mainly use the electronic shutter so the mechanical shutter should last into my retirement!
I feel like all the people who think the Sony a7iii has a "shutter failure problem" need to watch this video! I've not kept cameras until they die as I'm always chasing better AF tracking and fps and ability to shoot high ISO (I shoot indoor dog sports). My Sony a77ii is over 100k and still working great. It's been outside in all sorts of weather. My Sony a7iii is around 85k or so at this point with no issues. The a9ii was sold to me used with 42k on the shutter but I haven't put anything more on despite taking thousands of photos because I use electronic shutter on it.
Last year, I bought a second hand Nikon D850, which had a shutter count of 113k, I have since added a couple of thousand to the count. I had no second thoughts of buying it and the only marks are where the strap has rubbed on the corners, apart from that there are no marks.
I've always thought the same. I wouldn't buy a second hand camera with less than 50,000 because the risk is still there that the shutter will fail. I've aimed for around 60,000 to 70,000 because it's well worn in by then.
Here's one though. I've never heard of anyone been worried about the shutter count, when in use. Only when buying gear. (...)
I really your views on shutter count 😁
Bought a 1DX Mk II from MPB with 1.2 million actuations. 😅 No idea if and how many shutter replacement it's had. If it fails within the warranty period, they get to replace it. If it fails outside the warranty period, the total cost is about what it would had cost me if I had went with one with ~150K range. Works for me, for now.
I honestly haven't even checked my shutter count haha. I'm of the mindset that since I always have a backup body on paid shoots, I'll just drive my main until the wheels fall off 😂. This does bring up 2 interesting points though.
1) I do know some pros who trade their cameras in every year, and use the credit towards repurchasing the exact same model. Their line of thinking is "I'm just paying a bit of a premium every year to make sure that I have something reliable". These are the type of people who shoot a lot of adventure content in remote areas, where the added weight of a backup body isn't always practical. While I personally don't do this (even though I shoot a lot of the same type of stuff), I can appreciate the logic behind this line of thinking.
2) I think with the rise in mirrorless users, the shutter count debate will likely become a moot point in the near future. Each new generation of mirrorless cameras seems to refine silent shooting more and more, to the point that there's very little downside to shooting exclusively silent now (aside from some banding and rolling shutter issues if you're not careful, which become less and less severe with every new iteration - and will likely be eradicated completely with the advent of global shutters). Since silent shooting doesn't utilize a mechanical shutter, and therefore doesn't increase your shutter actuations, it isn't unreasonable to assume that you could theoretically shoot with the same body indefinitely, or at least until something else goes out/gets broken.
@@mdhazeldine Interesting, I hadn't heard that about the R6 II. I thought they had worked most of that out after the R6. Thanks for the heads up!
As you said, the shutter count isn't a definitive benchmark on wether you should change the shutter or not. My 1Dx has 733,000 on it and it looks BRAND SPANKIN NEW, I sold my 5D Mark II at 880,000 on it and my 1D Mark IV still looks and feels new and it has around 900k on it, the last time I checked was 3 years ago and it had around 800,000 my friend has a 1Dx II with well over 1.000,000. Fun fact, since 12 years, I've never ever had a shutter break and I've never bought a brand new body ever in my life. (I haven't even checked my shutter count on the 5DsR) when it comes to the exterior it's mosty about the environment that you shoot in, I don't do weddings and/or events, all of my work is indoor.
I managed to pick up a Nikon D810 with 7k shutter count that lived it’s life as a studio camera. But the D810 is also in the league of Nikon cameras built to a higher standard of reliability with the intention of having it be taken into War Zones with the other cameras being such examples as D500, D700, D800, D850 and all the large bodies like D5.
For me it was the D850 this year with 2.2K shutter count, and D5300 with 5.8K a year ago.
The used 1DX I found had 342k on it when I bought it. Now has 360k. Lots of 3 to 5 picture bursts for baseball. I am going to drive it like that until it quits. Unknown if the shutter has been replaced before or not.
I've had three Nikon d300 dead. One caught itself on fire and was replaced by mpb. The next two were used and I put 100,000 on each before dropping them. Dropping cameras on concrete is not good.
Now, I have a Nikon d7100 with 80,000 activations on it. The paint is mostly rubbed off around the left side to the top and I burnt out my flash which I used constantly for fill in outside portraits, horse photography and flowers.
My Nikon d700 is my baby. The last two winters it been slowing to the point of the shutter not working when below10-15f zero. I thought it was drowning but I was told it may be the batteries are shot, they just carry enough power for action in cold weather.
I recently bought a Nikon d3 with no wear on the body anywhere with 40,000 clicks. It is to replace the d700 if it goes bad.
These cameras have factory shutter action estimates which I think are conservative. They can go on and on taking abuse seemingly forever until it gets to the point they are replaced because one is sick of looking at the old hulk and get a different camera just because.
I have an Olympus omd em1 mkii camera. I bought it used from ebay a couple of years ago. The camera works great and only has a couple of small scratches ($600 used versus $2,000 new price). One way I extend the life is to almost always use the electronic shutter instead of the mechanic shutter. There are only a few situations where the mechanical shutter is better than the electronic shutter, so I can extend the life of my mechanical shutter (200,000 life actuations ).
Shutter count does add value to your camera when you plan to sell it. The lower the count, the higher the resell value. Most importantly is, have the shutter been used a lot in burst mode? Today, my cameras have low shutter counts not because I am trying to retain my camera's resell value, but because I prefer Electronic Shutter over Mechanical Shutter. It's quieter which is what makes me like it so much because I can be a ninja at gigs without people noticing me. I do use mechanical shutter when taking portraits with flash and when I can't get rid of flickering. Otherwise, majority of new cameras today should be able to reach 200k shutter count easily. If you don't plan to sell your camera, then don't worry about shutter count.
My Canon EOS 7D MK II made it to around half a million (can't find an accurate program to read the value) before the shutter went. I had it replaced for $600 AUD and hope it will last me a long while yet.