Myth #3: The Thumb Goes Over the Hand When Playing Scales

In this lesson several attempts will be made to play scales WITHOUT the thumb going under the hand. All attempts prove to be unsuccessful.
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[@powerwhiteangel]

Hi, great video ! You’re right about the thumb needing to pass under the hand. It’s the only way to achieve smooth movement when playing scales in your examples. However, that technique has a limit: speed!
When you need to play scales in virtuoso pieces, the thumb can slow down the movement. That’s why it’s replaced by hand rotation and, more importantly, the arm and the whole body.
So, when playing scales at slow/moderate/fast speeds: thumb under. = 90% fingers and 10% wrist and arm. When playing scales at very fast/virtuosic speeds: rotation and arm. = 80% arm, shoulders, back, and 20% fingers.

[@betsyprokop4802]

@@powerwhiteangel Thank you for your response. I’m wondering if you watched the entire video the main point of which was that the wrist does not have time to rotate at fast speeds. If what you believe is true, about rotating at fast speeds, I would appreciate you sending me an example demonstrating that as the hand is playing a fast scale. Simply play the scale at a fast speed while video taping with your iPhone, set on slow motion.

[@betsyprokop4802]

@@powerwhiteangel not to belabor a point, but where did you come up with the percentages listed? Why not 83% fingers and 17% rest in arms, etc..
In a future video, I will demonstrate that the precise articulation of notes in a passage Has very little to do with the rotation of the wrist or the use of any other body parts other than the fingers.

[@powerwhiteangel]

@@betsyprokop4802 The percentages were there to better illustrate what I was trying to explain. It’s how I approach it with my students-it’s more digestible that way, especially when explaining high-level techniques.
The rotation of the wrist plays a very minor role compared to the arm but needs to be free and flexible as you move your arm, which does the majority of the work along with the rest of your body.
If you’ve played Transcendental Études by Liszt, for example, you know that he loves very fast scales. But what he enjoys even more is breaking them up, removing a note or two, and making jumps between sections. It's one of the examples where using the thumb-under technique doesn’t work anymore, and your arm needs to take over most of the work.
People with large hands can cheat a little, but if you have small hands, it’s even more important to be able to switch between these techniques.
I watched the entire video, of course, and as I said, it’s a great video!
P.S. I won’t make a video to explain this; I don’t have the time. Frankly, I’ve watched hundreds of videos, and if I needed to make a video each time to explain my argument, it would be a full-time job.

[@pianopowerlessons]

@@powerwhiteangel Yes…you are absolutely correct in saying that the thumb under technique actually hampers your movement when skipping from one group to the next. Your explanation would also apply to arpeggios and exceptional situations like playing a whole-tone scale (c d e f# g# a# c) where the thumb plays on C followed by playing on F#.
Thank you again for your feedback!

[@powerwhiteangel]

@@pianopowerlessonsIt was my pleasure! Thank you for the great video and for explaining a topic that can be difficult to understand, even for advanced piano players.

[@kpunkt.klaviermusik]

It's such a theoretical problem, because
it only occurs in the C major scale
only in one direction (RH upwards LH downwards)
only in fast tempo
only when you really want to play with perfect finger legato.
In all other cases scales are very comfortable to play on the keyboard.
And yes: thumb under is the normal and best working method of playing scales.

[@pianopowerlessons]

Thank you for your reply. I’m not sure what you mean by, ‘It only occurs in the C major scale…’

[@kpunkt.klaviermusik]

@@pianopowerlessons In scales which include black keys the 'thumb under' is much more comfortable and nobody would play thumb over there. It's only proposed for all white scales.

[@pianopowerlessons]

@@kpunkt.klaviermusik Got it. Thanks.

[@kpunkt.klaviermusik]

@@pianopowerlessons No problem. I thought about it again and realized: the 'thumb over' term is misleading. It does not mean to move the thumb separetly over an other finger - but to move the whole hand instead of the thumb alone. It will not solve the finger legato problem. Fast scales are not played with strict finger legato in any case.

[@pianopowerlessons]

@@kpunkt.klaviermusik Agreed

[@kisha_music]

I believe you are taking a unique pedagogical approach. But one crucial aspect missing in your approach is in and out motion to accomodate for different finger lengths.

[@pianopowerlessons]

@@kisha_music That makes sense to me, Kisha, since I have a relatively large hand. I would appreciate if you could elaborate more on what you are describing. I’m always interested in learning about different perspectives. Perhaps, you could make a video and send it to me.

[@kisha_music]

@@pianopowerlessons do you have an email address

[@kisha_music]

@@pianopowerlessons you can share mail id

[@pulykamell]

Is this really common advice, about the thumb going over? I have never heard of it and it makes no sense to me!

[@pianopowerlessons]

@@pulykamell Join the club!