Cartoon Enemies to Lovers: An Analysis
Vložit
- čas přidán 28. 08. 2024
- THIS VIDEO CONTAINS MAJOR SPOILERS FOR THE OWL HOUSE, AMPHIBIA, SHE-RA, AND GRAVITY FALLS
I'm BACK!! Thank you so much if you're reading this, if you're supporting me- hope you enjoy the video!!
Music used is the Donkey Kong Country Returns and Donkey Kong Country: Tropical Freeze soundtrack, all rights belong to Rare, Retro Studios, Nintendo, and their respective composers
My Twitter: th...
#theowlhouse #amphibia #shera #gravityfalls
Oh yeah Dipcifica is HARD carried by the fandom's obsession with the one episode. It's one of the best in the show after all with some of the best character development too, but man the way that episode shifted the fan base and shaped lives is insane. Seen artists build their skills and portfolio on just Dipifica. Honestly Lumity in my eyes is if Dipifica maximized on it's full potential. Even though it was mostly teasing and vibes at this point I see it as canon with how much content the fans have schilled it.
I’m not the biggest enemies to lovers fan but I’d say Lumity is one of the few I can tolerate. The only complaint I have is that Amity just kinda became Luz’s simp and nothing else but other than that they’re adorable, they stand by each other no matter what and balance each other out well. 9/10
That’s a really good point that I should have spoken about in my analysis! A character becoming attached to the hip of the character they’re in love with is a really bad writing pit of romance, and while I don’t think Lumity is *too* bad in this area, I do see where people are coming from.
Maybe next time I bring them up, then, I’m sure it won’t be too long XD
@@themadmagpie1742 I still like Amity I just wish they did more with her outside of Luz (particularly regarding her backstory with Willow)
@@olleselin I just wish they had done more with her character outside of Luz
@@olleselin we barely see her interact with anyone else
I can see what you mean, but I would argue there is a little more to Amity tan being a Luz simp after they get together. There are episodes that focus on her and Willow's friendship after they made up and Amity's relationship with her parents. Could they have done more with her not involved with Luz probably, but I do think being cut a season short probably and considering how little representation this kind of pairing has in kid's shows I can see why they emphasized the relationship so much. I do still think there was more to Amity than being a simp.
Lumity is a great enemies to lovers plot
Honestly they're more like rivals to lovers in my opinion. Still great but feels more like that
@@toadlord8594 true
YASSS
pfp checks out
To me Catradora needed more time to ease from literal enemies to being in love,
they acted like they hated each other, catra has commited war crimes, did things that led to a main character's death, has been most of the time, just rude, honestly;
As for Sasha, yes, she attones but I REALLY wish we got more episodes to flesh it out and sure there were 3 seasons of the show but are you sure we couldn't have gotten an episode of the resistance forming their strategies that incorporate all the frog's abilities and finding the crazy basement within the plantars's house,
dipper and pacifica REEALLY needed another episode and THEN maybe eventually they could've been an actual couple (if Pacifica's redemption stuck around that is).
Lastly Lumity didn't get anything wrong,
Amity's redemption✅️
it turning into a crush with Luz✅️
Luz's eventual falling for her✅️
the perfect imperfection of their entire sequence of events from blushing at eachother all the way to asking eachother out to all their struggles in "reaching out" and "thanks to them" ✅️
everything with a ✅️ means ABSOLUTELY PERFECTLY EXECUTED.
Yeah I’m a Sasha fan but REALLY wish we could’ve gotten more character time on her in Season 3. Or more time with Sasha + Toads in S2 to more deeper our perspective on the Toads culture cause it’s kinda surprised that Anne and Hop Pop (or the fandom) realize that the Toads terrible actions and reasoning for rebellion mostly camd from Newtopia, who mostly profited off the Taxes the Toads have done in Amphibia.
Really there’s bit more depth and world building in Amphibia surface that I wished got explored more
I'm a Catradora fan and will never say it is completely healthy, but it certainly feeds my brain the good chemicals.
I still love looking for Dipcifica stuff, they are just cute together. Also Pacifica regressing in the finale for humor is the one thing I don't like about it.
I loved Sasha's redemption, though I don't particularly ship her with Anne. The best part for me is how she and Grime reflect Anne and Sprig as bestie duos, and how they come around to being the good guys.
Lumity is the sacred grail of sapphic fictional couples, still my favorite part of a really good show
It’s still a Damn shame we didn’t have many Sasha solo episodes in the show as we could’ve had considered she’s the show’s most complex character (next to Andrias and Marcy) Even just one more in 3A with seeing her buildup for the resistance would’ve been great to witness in Season 3.
@toadlord8594 I agree wholeheartedly!! :3.
@@hannahmetzger4880Yeah I’m just personally a Huge Sasha fan/Kinnie. And it just makes me irk that she couldn’t get as much screentime as she could’ve in the series. Being the Zuko of the show for me.
Catradora is one of the ships that had enemies to lovers that I do not like, at all. she hurts Adora as a child a lot, reminder that they’re still friends. To be honest, I really liked Glimmadora more than Catradora.
Lumity portrayed this really well, they’re still one of my favorite ships (and a cute one at that) Covention was the first time we got the ‘might be friends later’ hint, and I really like the library episode (forgot the name, the one where the books come to life and we meet the twins) because it develops their friendship (and later relationship) more. I think Enchanting Grom Fright was when I finally saw the potential for them and started shipping them hard
Sashanne was one that I liked, because at least after she hurt Anne and Marcy a lot, she redeemed herself and became a better person, which I love. I kinda wish they became endgame, but i love that the main trio were still friends in the end.
Dipcifica is one that I don’t know how to feel to be honest. i feel if they developed the relationship between dipper and pacifica more, I think I’d ship it.
Anne and Sasha aren't enemies to lovers. The creators even said that none of the Calamity Trio are romantically involved with each other. As for Pacifica, she may still have things to work on, but she is changing and improving. She didn't side with her parents against their willingness to side with Bill, she personally wrapped Dipper and Mabel's present (even broke a nail doing so) when she never did "servant work" before, and then there's her arc in the comics, where she even gave up eternal youth and beauty for them.
The whole CatraXAdora situation just further proves my initial thoughts on how season 5 needed faaaar more episodes to finish up all the loose plot threads the show left dangling and unresolved.
“I always come back”
Seriously though, so good to see you making videos again!
Thank you, it’s so good to be back!! Thought about making a bigger deal out of this, making posts hyping it up and everything, but thought just a normal release would be best. Comments like this make it worth it!
1. Lumity is perhaps the best relationship I have seen in cartoons in my standards (and I don't care it's LGBT). As you said, it carries a lot of season 1 of The Owl House, and Amity is one of the best characters. But I don't think Amity got enough time to be considered a real enemy.
2. Anne and Sasha isn't cannon, it could be from Sasha's side but not Anne's as much as we know, so I wouldn't compare it to romantic relationships. But their relations in general, or more accurately Sasha's character arc are among the best things in Amphibia. And it makes a lot of sense the human girls get much more attention than the frogs, as that's what you get when you create a more episodic and light hurted show and give most of the interesting storylines to the human girls. One of the many issues of Anphibia's third season in my opinion was the lesser focus on the politics and societies of Amphibians beyond "Andreas is evil and everyone important who isn't a robot is against him".
3. Dipper and Pasiffica are adorrable in potential, but not a cannon romantic relationship. The show barely had a time after Northwest Mansion, but it would be nice to het more of their freindship and Pasiffica's development.
4. I hate Catra. Sorry. I got into She ra knowing she is going to be bad and then have redemption and a relationship with Adora (apparently I couldn't know about the show's existence and decide check it out before getting some spoilers). But I was amazed, not in a good way, by the execution, Catra's actions had inner logic, but she felt completely evil. You compared her actions to Sasha's, but with Sasha it was more ambigous and understandable how she got to her position, and she didn't take a lot of time (on screen) to change. Catra didn't just do bad things, she did them for a very long time, in a lot of circumstances, and it felt like she was completely aware of her own emotional situation and the fact the only fundemental goal at the end of her way was destruction.
And all that doesn't mean she shouldn't have been redeemed, but it really did happen to fast. I don't even complain other people excepted her so quickly, that's fine. But as a viewer, it seems like she was so aware of her own destructive goals for so long, that it's hard to digest when she suddenly changes. And for her relations with Adora... that was a part of what brought her to a mental collapse, and honesly, her getting it back like that feels like she didn't get a price for what she has done. And the speed in which it happens feels like it doesn't give enough time for the two to develop a positive relationship (especially in the midst of such an action packed season).
He are my thoughts on the 4 ships.
Lumity: Best sapphic couple in media.
Catradora: Not a fan of the actual romance part of the ship.
Dipcifica: Nice episode with a great comic but underdeveloped heavily.
Sashanne: I love the two in the show…, but as friends and it’s not even a canon ship so doesn’t fit the enemies to lovers dynamic.
Yeah me Personally My Favorite Enemies to Lovers ships in this Video would probably be
1. Lumity
2. Sashanne ( My Personal tastes aside)
3. DIpcifica
4. Catradora
You have the same ranking as me. That is great!
you're a actual weirdo.
Lumity is a very well developmented healthy relationship.
Sasha goes from the shitty friend to a good friend, there's no romance there besides she being gay.
I can't say too much about GF and She-Ra, never watched/liked them.
I really like the enemies to lovers idea. If it is done well, it can be genuinely AMAZING.
Now I might not like all of these concept, like Luz and Amity. And I do think Dipper and Pasifica was EXTREMELY underused. But other than that, they are all pretty good!
Wait, what's wrong with Luz and Amity?
Welcome back!
Great video! There's something I'd add to it:
You explained the catradora stuff really well, especially regarding Catra's actions in season 3, and yeah, i don't remember when catra ever become less problematic, to put it lightly. I think the problem was she crossed a moral event horizon, activating the portal and screwing up the entire world, leading the Queen to sacrifice her life. I don't remember that ever being talked about again afterwards. Maybe something else to add is their ship being the endgame; i certainly felt the ending was anti-climatic of them being together, and maybe the writers liked that dynamic so much, they made catradora the main ending part,, which could have worked if not for catra's actions.
Maybe would have been better if catra had grown to be the overarching villain in her own right, and she becomes the one in control of the horde army, somehow, and she and Adora face off against each other. That probably would have worked much better, but that's just me.
Compared with that, amity and sasha don't exactly have the same moral event horizon, i guess. Amity was a bully who grew to be a better person, and i wish she and willow had the time to grow and become proper friends again. Sasha was confused and tried to control everything, but you certainly felt the regret she developed after realising what she'd done, and genuinely wants to be a better person.
And you raised a fair point about Pacifica, and i see why some people were upset about her changing character right at the end. but i guess I've never been big on dipacifica personally. Thinking back i don't think I've noticed much change from her development to the end, and i think it's relatively the same, but i understand why people are bit upset.
Anyway, long comment! Keep up the good work!
Honestly I really want more series to have the relationship happen as early as possible
THE BIRD MAN IS BACK
I’m a huge Amity x Luz: Lumity fan and this video including them did not disappoint. I like it Lumity forever!!! However a enemies turn into lovers pair you could have mentioned in this video is one of most beloved couples: Fluttershy and Discord: Fluttercord from My little pony friendship is magic. I really loved them as a couple and I’m glad it got confirmed in the series finale. So maybe you’ll please consider adding them in another video? Please My little pony friendship is magic means a lot to me. Fluttercord forever!!!!!!
Very happy to see your return and it being one of your analysis. Not a lot to comment on the video (i agree with the points you make) except that i dont think Lumity were exactly...enemies you know? Like, they feel more like rivals than actual enemies. But this is just me being pedantic with the definitions, seeing the progression of their relationship all the way to becoming a couple is great and having actual screentime as such is something not a lot of other shows can match
I do wish we got to see more Sasha eps, i actualy expected Yunan to be somewhat of a recurring antagonist for her and Grime in s2 and im a bit disappointed of the very little screentime Yunan has, the dramatic, overly-long introduction gag its always funny but such is life
Even though they never feel in love Lapis and Peridot would have been great to mention with redemption
Catra does regret everything and even apologized and saved her friend. But it should’ve been longer
Agreed/
She also only apoligized to Adora. How do the other characters feel about Catra not paying for her war crimes because she's dating Adora now?
@@luluzin5022She apologized to Glimmer, Frosta, Perfuma and Scorpia individually and apologized to the group as a whole.
Catra saying “I’m sorry for everything,” was extremely vague and given that she didn’t change her behavior afterwards, didn’t prove that she regretted anything. As for her saving her friend, I’m assuming this is referring to Glimmer. The two weren’t even friends at the time and Catra only saved her for Adora. The redemption didn’t necessarily have to be longer, it just should’ve been written better.
@pierredufour6164 Aside from Adora, I only recall Catra apologizing to Entrapta and trying to apologize to Scorpia but being cut off by her before she could.
If I had to choose between Sashas redemption or Amitys, I'd probably go with Amity, but it's very close.
11:01 Still wish the show gave us more time with the Toads, let alone the Newts. The show needed more episodes, if not another season. 😬
It’s great to see you back!
Honestly, three of these ships are my top 3 ships. But i really do feel that Catra’s redemption was too fast. It was well done for the time it has but it felt like we could have had her have more time to overcome her flaws and show she has become better as a person.
youre so real for putting anne in the cover i havent even seen the video i already liked it
Anne and Sasha are not lovers. 🙃
Oh Boy get ready for the Catradora Fans and Huge Catra apologists to go to war in this comment section lol
Oh, trust me, I know, I’ve tried to be as reasonable as possible in the video XD
Oh this will be fun, I’ll get the popcorn
I will fight them with just my hands and teeth
As friends Catra and Adora could work but season 5 ruins it by forcing them to be together romantically instead of being friends. The ending feels forced and not in a good way. It is like if Catra is showing off by saying "Look at me I've got a romance with a giant sword lady I abused or traumatized for several years and it only took me taking out several kingdoms plus many innocent etherian lives to do it. Good God what am I doing with my life Scorpia get the alcohol from the crimson waste I need a drink."
@@themadmagpie1742As friends Catra and Adora could work but season 5 ruins it by forcing them to be together romantically instead of being friends. The ending feels forced and not in a good way. It is like if Catra is showing off by saying "Look at me I've got a romance with a giant sword lady I abused for several years and it only took me taking out several kingdoms plus many innocent etherian lives to do it. Good God what am I doing with my life Scorpia get the alcohol I need a drink."
I'm gonna be real, I think Catradora did get positive moments in s5. Do I think there should have been more time and Catra needed to be faced with what she did to the other princesses more? Yes. That would make it so much better. But I think there's genuine desire from Catra to be better not just for Adora's sake but her own, and they were really making breakthroughs before Shadow Weaver was reintroduced and old habits of their toxic environment fell hard. Catra's apology and saving Glimmer, saying she's working on not being as angry, learning to share food with Adora and her friends and not just thinking Adora can only have one friend (her), all point to good growth. And Adora grew too; when Catra was falling back into her toxic ways on the ship, she put her foot down, and was fully willing to leave her on another planet to make her own way if Catra kept going back. She made that choice to save Catra as her own, which I think people completely miss, and is a shame, because it's missing out on important developments in Adora's character. Catra didn't manipulate her into saving her, and she didn't manipulate her into staying with her; Adora chose to reach out again after Catra did, and stood up for herself when needed, setting boundaries, and Catra listened to that, and let down her own guard to be better. I get why people don't ship these two, and that's valid, but I think because they're such a complicated relationship people honestly miss a lot of stuff and growth of these two. I think their relationship is the encapsulation of healing from trauma, and that's something that's important to me, anyway.
Adora also makes other steps of growth in her own toxic behaviour (which MANY people forget she had) in terms of not reading other people’s deeper feelings well & being more considerate of them.
Adora is compassionate & selfless to a fault but due to her tunnel vision of always doing the ‘right thing’, she ended up never really putting herself in others shoes - case in point Catra (& Glimmer a fair bit in S4).
In S5’s ep ‘Taking Control’ she at first gets frustrated at Catra not improving right away without considering why but after telling her the facts about the dire situation they’re in due to her chip & while she does let her anger get away with her at one point, still gives Catra the choice to leave or stay, which was what she needed to take the next step to reach back & ask Adora to stay with her.
Adora starts to listen more after this & is less oblivious when Catra’s emotionally uncomfortable - in other words, starts to gain true empathy, whereas before it was most often sympathy she felt for others.
This didn’t get NEARLY as much attention as it should’ve & I will always mourn that we never got an emotional apology scene between both of them (rather than just showing Catra apologising) cos you can tell they both are sorry & the show even acknowledges how they both hurt EACH OTHER.
But I thought it was clever & fascinating how a classic caring character like Adora, doesn’t necessarily mean they start out having true empathy, as that requires understanding someone on a deeper level instead of just feeling sorry for them (like with sympathy) & I just wish this got more time to be fleshed out with her - people forget, Catra wasn’t the only one who needed to improve & grow.
That is a MASTERPIECE of a comment. 👏👏👏
yessss agreed!!!
@@sparxstreak02 omg ive been thinking about this for ages thank you for putting it into words!!!
@@in_dyy always happy to when it comes to complex topics! 😊
I personally ship Anne and Marcy, but I don't mind Sashanne. Am a BIG Catradora and Lumity stan, and I've never seen Gravity Falls, so, don't really have an opinion on the Dipcifica pairing one way or the other. :P :3.
Really glad Magpie is back with another banger:)
You know what they say;
"There's a thin line between love and hate"
I think She-Ra was meant to have a few more seasons and so rushed a lot of the story towards the end, still giving a mostly satisfying conclusion but not giving some characters time to develop, Catra being one of them. Another show that suffered from that was Netflix's Carmen Sandiego, where it's clear the last season was at least three seasons' worth of story mashed into one because they knew they were getting cancelled early, and while that doesn't have an enemies-to-lovers plot it does have one character who goes through a rushed redemption arc, and Steven Universe of course had a very rushed conclusion due to cancellation giving a number of other problems with characters being redeemed too quickly or without proper admission of guilt. I know Owl House still managed to make Amity and Luz's relationship work with a shortened ending, but that was because they set it up far earlier, but you could look at Hunter and Willow as the show's other enemies-to-lovers arc which didn't get enough time to flourish fully.
If that’s true, it really doesn’t justify She-Ra’s abysmal writing since I’ve seen similar stories handled much better in way less time. What the show needed was better writers who have self awareness and skill. I couldn’t even tell that Carmen Sandiego was shortened since I remember being satisfied with the ending. The show didn’t prioritize ship pandering at the expense of the narrative and maintained having good messages for its child audience. If the character you’re referring to as having a rushed redemption is Chase, then in that case it’s not comparable to Catra’s situation at all. At most, Chase was rude and annoying, but he didn’t abuse anyone and make out with his victim in the finale. Catra’s arc would’ve been way more forgivable if she didn’t hook up with Adora. As for Steven Universe, the same thing applies- the Diamond redemption was rushed, yes, but it’s still miles better than Catra’s since it didn’t take a victim x abuser makeout session to save the universe. Plus, in the proceeding movie and mini series, it’s revealed how Steven still never fully forgave the Diamonds. As for The Owl House, I again blame the writers instead of the shortening since huntlow was a pointless waste of time to begin with since like in She-Ra, the writers chose to prioritize shipping fodder at the expense of the narrative. The same could be said about lumity as well, but I feel that enough people have criticized that ship at this point.
To be fair of the 4 groups there is one very key difference between the rest and Catra/Adora, they are all from relatively stable societies, where they went to school and their problems were relatively minor, until the start of the adventure. Catra and Adora on the other hand are child soldiers raised from birth to fight and kill the enemies of the horde, Adora is idealistic, because she has been groomed to be the champion of the horde filled with the Horde's propaganda, while Catra is a hot mess. Neither of them has had much of any stability in their lives, save for each other and well we see how that works out when Catra loses that, while Adora finds a new healthier support network. So yeah they are both pretty dysfunctional people, one more obviously than the other. Though the implications of how Pacifica's parents conditioned her is grim, I get the feeling Catra could relate there. They care deeply for each other and Catra's been flirting with Adora since season 1. Frankly once they were back on the same side, with Catra having matured somewhat, it's not surprising that the feelings both have had for each other bubble up to the surface.
I could see how Adora deeply cared for Catra (at least prior to the season 3 finale), but I don’t see how Catra cared deeply for Adora- she seemed to care more about the idea of her remaining by her side as someone who is easy to control due to their codependent enmeshment from being raised by Shadow Weaver. In addition, Catra’s supposed flirting in season 1 was mostly her invading boundaries and acting either toxic or creepy, so I wouldn’t count that as evidence of the ship being hinted at since Adora was never comfortable in those situations. Finally, I don’t see how Catra matured upon switching sides. She exhibited the exact same behavior up until the very end of the show. I think the relationship was indeed a surprise, at least on Adora’s end, since she didn’t seem to show any sign of wanting Catra romantically up until the latter half of season 5 just because Catra did the bare minimum. Not to mention that the two were raised by the same mother figure and as a result had the golden child/scapegoat dynamic that’s common among abused siblings, which adds another layer of disbelief to the romance.
She ra season five was rushed, but catdora worked well enough for the time it had.
That also reminds me. Will you be making videos on Steven Universe?
LUMITY SLAYS💅💅
I'm okay with the whole enemies to lovers trope. I like how Luz and Amity became a couple, how Anne and Sasha became better friends, how Dipper and Pacifica got into a better relationship that could possibly be romantic in the future, and how Adora and Catra became a couple after being bitter enemies for so long.
Sasha and Anne, along with Catra and Adora are examples of friends becoming enemies and becoming friends again, even though both relationships had toxic friendships before being enemies, and then became better friends. Catra and Adora even did become lovers and I do think that there relationship is better for it. Catra has actually changed as a character by the final season. She actually apologized to Entrapta for what she did, and even tried to apologize to Scorpia. Plus, while Catra did have a lot to answer for, she was instrumental in Adora saving the universe from Horde prime.
In the case of Dipper and Pacifica, it's clear that Pacifica has shown some changes in the series since the incident at Northwest manor, such as being against her father when he tried to join with Bill Cipher, or when she ultimately decided to put on Mabel's Llama sweater. Pacifica even showed up for Dipper and Mabel's birthday party and gave them presents. Not to mention that her signature was on the "see you next summer" card. Even if there was more development between Dipper and Pacifica in the graphic novel than in the series, that doesn't mean that Pacifica didn't change as a character in the series.
Luz and Amity's relationship is probably the best example of the enemies to lovers trope among the choices, as their relationship improves in a more natural way than the others.
I love all these relationships. Anne and Sasha, Dipper and Pacifica, Luz and Amity, and Adora and Catra are all relationships of the "enemies to lovers" trope that I personally enjoyed.
LUMITY IS DA GREATEST
Welcome back
Actually one of my ideas got picked up as an owl house episode
YOU'RE BACK!!!!!!
Notification gang! also am Dipcifica
Are you like William Afton in the fact that you always come back?
Dude im okay with characters getting together but ship names make me want to spontaneously combust
I know I’m cringe as hell but IM SECOND (god help me)
Good vid.
My biggest problem with the enemies to lovers trope is that, so often, writers skip from hating to loving far too quickly. As soon as they hit the stage where they don't hate each other anymore, they just love each other. Which is so ridiculous on so many levels.
I don't think either Sasha + Anne or Catra + Adora manage to escape this problem. At all. Dipper + Pacifica and Amity + Luz work because their status as enemies comes from a fundamental lack of truly understanding each other and so they don't need to put in a lot of time to fix any toxic habits or relationships. As soon as their misunderstandings are cleared up, they can start really becoming friends and then maybe more.
Sasha + Anne is an example of this failing, in my opinion. These two characters know each other very well, have no misconceptions of each other and consistently are at odds due to fundamental flaws in their friendship and how they interact with each other. But as soon as they find a common enemy in Andrias, all is forgiven and all of a sudden their toxic, flawed friendship is much more wholesome and has little to no kinks to work out. The show does not put in the effort to rework the friendship and the dynamics they share, instead just trying to make a shortcut to being good friends.
Catra + Adora does attempt to rework the friendship into something much more healthy, but it simply was not given enough time. Besides, I personally would never be able to have a loving relationship with a person who looked me in the eyes, shows absolute glee at the idea of my demise and then attempted to kill me. TWICE. I cannot even describe how hard of a time I have believing anyone would do this. How did anyone think this relationship a good idea?
You’re making it seem like Amphibia isn’t that well written.
I personally believe Sasha is a better written version of Catra but you do you.
Yeah I see Sashanne as much less Toxic than Catradora
And the writers staff in Amphibia do ship Sashanne.
6:47 I’m sorry, but I V.E.R.Y. much beg to differ here 🤨
Catra went through more change than ANYONE else in the show. She was even what inspired Adora’s change, in thinking more for herself & developing her sense of empathy.
‘Corridors’ has Catra contemplating & regretting her actions ALL throughout the ep, now finally letting her guilt, regret & the pain from that sink in, instead of avoiding & subconsciously denying it (like she did constantly in S4) while thinking back to what started her insecurities in the first place through her childhood memories.
She then sacrifices her own safety for Glimmer’s & apologises to Adora in the biggest way possible - I don’t know how you can do ALL that without going through some major changes within yourself.
And yes, she takes a step backwards in ‘Taking Control’ (so does Adora for that matter) but growth isn’t linear, it’s not meant to be a straightforward checklist & this happens as a result of her not knowing how to deal with the immense guilt she now feels, but she finds her way back again to continue that journey.
She outright addresses & deals with her anger issues in ‘Shot in the Dark’ without prompting from anyone else while also setting boundaries for herself with her friends.
She also doesn’t answer back when people call back to her past actions or even outright attack her, she just (almost saintly so) lets them say their piece, however harsh (even when it’s unnecessarily so 😒) & just continues to work on herself. She was also empathic to other people’s pain, especially when it came to the damage caused by Horde Prime’s Hive Mind chip network - just look at her reassurance to Netossa in ‘An ill wind’.
This is stuff S1-4 Catra never would’ve done.
You can’t tell me that someone who goes through all that, HASN’T changed.
And yes, many aspects of her personality still remain. Like her snarkiness, cynicism, sarcasm & wit, but guess what? People LOVE that, because all those things are what made her charming, endearing, charismatic & most importantly - relatable.
And as for the ‘negative’ moments after Catra & Adora make up - no 2 friends however much they care for one another, will never not have rough patches, especially after so much time apart (3 years in Catra & Adora’s case).
Catra & Adora’s clash in ‘Taking Control’ was ultimately down to them not communicating effectively with each other, which eventually they start to do by the ep’s end.
When they fight in ‘Failsafe’ & Catra ultimately leaves, she isn’t ‘manipulating’ Adora here, she is challenging her to stop thinking through her toxic martyr mentality & think about the one thing she never has - what SHE wants. Yes, Catra wants to be the most important thing to Adora - what person hasn’t wanted the person they love to think about them that way? It isn’t selfish, it’s one of our most basic desires as people. But that’s not what she’s pushing for here, she just wants Adora to value herself much as Catra does, instead of weighing her worth through She-Ra like she has from day 1 & this ultimately proves pivotal in Catra saving Adora from herself.
But Catra once again picks herself up from this step back by opening up about her love for Adora (even if just to herself & her Familiar Melog) & ultimately does both what she wants & knows what feels right.
I will admit, Catra’s growth & development needed more time & would’ve benefited from a traditionally longer 26 ep season rather than a standard 13 ep streamed season. It definitely would’ve helped pull off the finale even better but I still say they earned that happy ending after all the strife these 2 have been through.
And while I can see how the finale might look like it’s tied up in a neat bow, I do think the gradual rebuilding of their relationship over the last season & the ending they get is meant to show these 2 still have a long way to go in terms of becoming better people & partners for each other & that IS something good to show for all of this - because the parts they got right, they pulled off phenomenally 👌
Another thing that was sadly in even shorter supply was Adora’s own flaws & toxic issues being addressed. We get a sprinkling of it in S5 through her growing emotional awareness of Catra & her feelings but never get an outright verbal addressing of this from her, or have it be front & centre but rather more in the background, which is a real shame as that was one of the most fascinating aspects of Adora’s character.
And if you hold one person’s war crimes to a certain standard, then you hold all OTHER characters war crimes to said standard - including the ones Hordak, Shadow Weaver, Scorpia, Entrapta, Lonnie, Kyle, Rogelio & the Rebellion (yes the Rebellion) did.
No one seems to be mentioning the fact that casualties happened on BOTH sides (as happens in war) you can make the argument all you want that one side started it & even when that’s true, it doesn’t take away from the fact you took life - you can never be proud of that. Mermista took PLENTY of lives in ‘Destiny Part 2’ with that typhoon of hers.
Catra never wanted to take out Angella with her actions with the portal or forced her to sacrifice herself. It was a sad consequence of a bad choice she regretted from that point on (even SPOP storyboard artist Mickey Quinn made a sketch of these 2 coming together, with Catra tearfully apologising)
Not to mention almost all the soldiers who fought with the Horde were conditioned to do so as CHILDREN & they began fighting as teenagers when they joined the war (as did many of the rebels) & if they didn’t or they failed their mission, well…we saw what Hordak did to Catra before sending her to the Crimson Waste to die. The only other option was a life of crime in the Crimson Waste like Huntara chose since Etherians attacked any Horde soldier on site, even if they deserted (like they did with Adora in ‘Razz’) but not everyone can survive that kind of life.
If you don’t look at the nuances of both sides, you get a very black & white view of somebody without looking at their whole story, therefore you can never fairly judge them.
All of what you said would have been fine if she did not commit war crimes or attempted murder on Adora. Her snarky behavior, cynicism, and self aggrandizment are all good traits as a villain but as a redeemed person not really.
All of this begs the question how to fix Catras redemption? Dial back the amount of horrible decisions she makes from season 1 to 4. Also she doesn't feel guilty she feels ashamed about what she did. Guilt means you feel responsible for what you did while feeling ashamed means you feel immensely bad for what you did but you have no idea how to make the situation better. If she did feel guilty she would make rebuilding Etheria a big priority or giving Adora the chance to be romantically involved with someone else as to acknowledge Adoras pain or trauma Catra herself caused. Instead Catra as magpie says resorts to manipulation in order to get the romantic relationship she wanted instead of ever acknowledging Adoras pain which is frankly disgusting.
Catra doesn't change because Catra is focused on pursuing her goal of getting into a romance with Adora by desperately wanting that love but not knowing how to give it in return.
The show was so desperate to want Catradora to happen that it forgot to focus on Catras redemption in terms of what Catra could do to rebuild trust with the other characters or give Catra a strong motivation that she can use to redeem herself like wanting to save the world or actually loving Adora by supporting her motivations, goals and personality given how bad her actions were from season 1 to 4. If anybody can find better writing decisions for Catras redemption than what was presented it is likely that your redemption sucks rotten eggs.
Side note: Catras friendship with Adora is very developed but the romance is almost nonexistent. Adora also is arguably a bit more developed than Catra because the point of Adoras development is balancing her she ra duties while also figuring out what she wants which is far more healthier than Catra trying to force Adora into romance when it is not appropriate or justified given how the universe is at stake and Adora needs the support to stop Horde Prime. Adora deserved better, Catra should not have run away but been by Adoras side regardless and without melog convincing her to go back. Catra in that scene was hypocritical because she was the one that made Adora double down on her martyr tendencies for 4 seasons and made her traumatized and feel miserable in the first place so Catra is not the one to talk to Adora about that.
@@sparxstreak02 I read it clearly and all of it doesn't justify what Catra does in the show. Actions speak louder than words and Catras actions mean she is mostly interested in getting into a romantic relationship with Adora than making up for her past mistakes. She could promise to rebuild etheria, go on adventures with Glimmer to rebuild trust after Catra made a situation that caused Angella to disappear, allow Adora to get involved romantically with someone else or if she wants Adoras love she should value Adoras personality opinions goals or motivations more often not only criticizing or putting them down. There are many ways to improve Catra and as magpie said the trauma or being abused argument can only get you so far. I say it now as I say it again if anybody can figure out how to make Catras redemption better than what was presented there is something wrong with the redemption itself. That is how a person with normal intelligence judges art properly for its negatives and what can be done to make the art work better.
To paraphrase your quote: Wow it is like you are not blindly agreeing with me about what I am saying and forming your own distinct opinion? I'm 😒.
@@nicholasmocalis589 there are ways to disagree without being rude & twisting someone else’s words is not the way to do that.
@@sparxstreak02 Paraphrasing is not twisting someone's words.
@@nicholasmocalis589 agree to disagree 🤷♀️
LETS HOPE THIS ONE IS A BANGER ALL STAR LIKE THE LAST ONES 🗣️🗣️🗣️🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈
Lumity on top!
While I love catra as a character I have always had the question of why catra didn’t leave the horde when adora did, she had the least reason to stay in the fright zone/horde due to shadow weaver
I didn’t know Dipper x pacifica or Anne x Sasha, canon.
They aren’t canon. It’s a possibility but it isn’t clear in the shows or any official media for them.
@@theghosttm8245 oh.
@@IsabellaMathew it’s ok. Unless a future show or official media or a tweet by the creators say otherwise it isn’t canon.
My 2nd biggest issue with catra and adora is the quasi inbred nature of it
I disagree with your opinion on Catradora. Catra forces Shadoweaver to go save Adora with her. Also, Catra chooses to stay with Adora at the Heart even though it might kill her.
Catra wanting to save Adora and choosing to stay with her was all out of her unhealthy obsession with her that she never grew out of.
You forgot to mention that shadow weaver agrees with Catra when it comes to saving Adora and that the only reason Catra saved Adora instead of continuing to run away was because Melog convinced her to go back.
I mean, technically Sachanne and Pacipper aren't canon. Still, always good to ship. And i must say, Catradora is awesome and all. But still, Lumity tops them all! It's basically the perfect cartoon ship! 👭❤💝🏳️🌈
Lumity is NOT Enemies to lovers. Anyone who thinks that is stupid. Smh
Yeah, they represent more rivals to lovers. That's also why they're seen as more healthy of most enemies to lovers trope. Because actual "enemies to lovers" romance are almost always hella toxic and abusive.
that thumbnail is disgusting.
How is it "disgusting"?
How is it not? Are you mentally ill?@@marbles4375
lumity is definitely the best example of this trope as for anne and sasha i never thought they were lovey dovey