This Is Destroying Model Railroading!!!!
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- čas přidán 25. 08. 2024
- Join me as I discuss the end of model railroading!
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My opinion, it’s not the fantasy schemes it’s more of the price of the hobby that scares most people and it’s a chance for everybody to own their own world
I totally agree with pricing. Which for me I look to other mean for buying my railroad equipment. Like EBay. I am strapped for cash. And within cpl years 3 to 5 I have over 330 engines alone of various scales. G, O, HO, N and a small box of z scale track with 7 or 8 electric switch track in 3 types. I started buying lots. 1st lot was 33. 14 worked as they described. Set test track when package came in. Minus needing few parts for them to make trips around I tested cleaned and ended up with 29 that I could put on track and go. Once I seen lot buys started getting more repeats of what I already had started being more selective. Still lot buying would check out other pieces in lot. Paint schemes or engine types I didn't have before would be determining factor how many in it did I not have? Even scenery material. Have enough to do almost entire basement layout. Have an idea of what your looking for. Research read everything pay attention to details on photos and then worry less about prices. But always keep an eye out even on something you need further down road. The price for something maybe cheaper to buy it and set aside until ready which added up can save you hundreds of dollars then to buy full price when you finally need it. I have enough to build 5 or 6 layouts. Dc and dcc. Most of my cluster material, ballist, grass, and other scenery i got in t big boxes at a yard sale for $25. Including n scale Kato small building sets and track bed grade foam rock molding. Hit jackpot there!
Totally agree. It’s taken me many years to be able to get back into the hobby. I don’t think most people that like trains know every model ever built or even what a fantasy scheme is also.
Interesting point. I feel just model your layout the way that brings you joy. 0 scale has a long history of being more toy like over other scales. But for the model railroaders that enjoy 100 percent realism. O scale has them also.
There is a difference between O scale and those toy trains made by Lionel.Lionel always referred to their postwar line as scale derailed.This hobby has gone through amazing changes,with Lionel making beautiful O scale trains and a very diminished line of toy trains in O guage
Expensive express
I’d say what is destroying the model RR hobby is PRICE, Price, PRICE!
I suppose, if price is the issue, that's why we have MPC/Postwar. I've seen some of this stuff, not that expensive.
Price has always been high. In 1954 for example a brand new train set would run about $60. Seems like right? But with inflation it would now cost $680.40. That's actually cheaper then most LionChief's. So when you say "PRICE, Price, PRICE!" Well you are WRONG, Wrong, WRONG!
@@jamesf791 $680 is considerably higher than any Lionchief set to date (unless there was some odd Lionchief+ or 2.0 thing, which is a bit different)… Regular Lionechief sets are usually in the $400-$500 range.
Also, Lionchief sets are generally considered to be starter sets, which are usually bottom of the line products… but the $60 sets from 1954 are actually the higher end products (the bottom of the line stuff was $20-$30 a set).
So even adjusted for inflation, the hobby is considerably more expensive these days.
@@jamesf791the problem is that lack of cheaper sets. It cost you a good amount of money for a decent set.
@@gamerfan8445they are constantly coming out with LionChief's every year, not sure that's the problem
I think the barrier to entry is what’s killing the hobby. A starter set used to be $100-$200 and now you’re pressed to find an a starter set for under $300.
If im a parent im not spending 300+ on something my kid will likely destroy or not be interested in.
This argument is as old as the hills, too. Forty years ago people were saying spending $100 on a trainset was too much for the same reasons. The illusion is that model trains are for kids; they aren't. It's always been an adult hobby and only adults can really afford it, and then only maybe.
@@jkleylein while it’s not meant for kids - expanding the hobby is something that’s incredibly important.
Menards with their very cheap engines are helping but honestly we really do need stuff that’s lower quality and lower price.
It used to be mth’s railking line helped keep prices in check. However now the major player is lionel and their products are getting extremely expensive
You can find plenty of cheap train starter sets for well bellow $100.
The expensive starter sets are obviously not for young children.
@@k.o.h3599 which o scale starter sets new are under $100?
@@thesheq5023 "Lionel Pennsylvania Flyer Battery Operated Model Train Set with Remote
$90.00"
At Walmart.
The fantasy scheme is far from my issue with the hobby. It has become the cost that is killing it for me. The so called budget railroad is no so much there anymore. Your layout and collection look awesome
This was hilarious, you were so salty and I'm here for every minute of it. I also love the people who don't realize this is satire 😂 Genuinely great discussion Chris!
Fantasy schemes are cool in my opinion, the price is what ruins the hobby.
We think the hobby is in a great place too! Since we started our train shop a few years ago, we have seen many people return or get started in the hobby. And it's definitely about having fun!
The loss of brick and mortar stores and the high costs, both related issues are a big reason for the decline.
I have noticed that the prices of them have gone through the roof in the last 3 years. I now stick with the older models from Hornby and Lima etc as these trains are a lot cheaper than the majority of the new ones 😊.
Chris, I got into HO scale back in the the ‘60s and from nearly day one I’ve heard about how “the hobby is dying”. Here it is 50+ years later, I’m now into 3-rail O-gauge, and it’s still dying! Oh good grief. Hobbies are cyclical, having their ups-&-downs just like the stock market. I will observe that prices need to start coming down though. That will aid in getting new people involved quicker as they won’t have to ponder how to pay their way into a new hobby.
I got started in scale model railroading about a decade later with Athearn blue boxes in the 70s and 80s & while general inflation is a factor, and not an insignificant one, there is also the thing of, the more you want done at the factory the more it is going to cost you at the retailer. Want electronics inserted at the factory? Gonna cost ya. Want stand-apart details applied at the factory? Gonna cost ya. Back to inflation, the US Bureau of Labor Statistics consumer price index inflation calculator says that basic no frills Athearn blue box 1983 locomotive selling for $27 back then will cost you, here in 2023, $83.49 😲🤔
@@scottfw7169 Sounds about right, I recently bought an N Scale Kato e8 for 69.
I love how you put yourself on your railroad between the two locomotives
Been in the hobby for 57 years. The thing killing the hobby is the price of everything.
The little Chris is epic. I can see little Chris reviewing while standing by the subject, sitting on a rock with the controller or even the transformer while he controls the train that's passing, getting off the track just in the nick of time. The possibilities are endless.
I agree with you very much, but also please keep in mind that a third rail down the middle coupled with grossly oversized rail is not prototypical either.
I'm mostly a prototypical runner. There aren't any fantasy engines on my layout. There might be a couple fantasy freight cars, but that it is it. That being said, I don't think the fantasy paint schemes are a bad thing for the hobby. It just comes down to this. At the end of the day, it's your railroad, and you run it as you see fit. That's what is great about this hobby. Oh by the way Chris, I do love that New York Central Pacemaker steam locomotive. That is one sharp looking engine!
Absolutely! Run what you enjoy!
It's your RR run what you want. I am strictly HO. I have way more trains that I just get obsessed with unique things. I do like fantasy items. My RR is PRR but I do have Heritage units, including PRR. I also allow PC or NYC. I also have a Tuscan F59PHI. I also have regional pieces like LV, EL, WM, Ma & Pa I have many RRs in my freight collection. Mostly regional but with some exceptions. I also have NMRA & such cars. I have Reading & Northern equipment, in place of Reading. I buy used cars & put metal wheels & upgrade couplers on them making them like new again. I can't see paying $50 for a freight car or more for passenger cars.
Very entertaining and on point Chris! I got swept into the hobby vis-a-vis MTH's halloween train! Btw- I hope Munchkin Chris makes future appearances. I lost it when he said, commenting on the fantasy schemes, "this is ridiculous!"
These things are literally my childhood and I almost forgot about them at one point so that's why I always come back to these videos so i don't forget.
What's killing the hobby isn't so much the fantasy scheme but pricing and technology, look at the prices of each individual piece that it takes to build a layout, either way it's hundreds to thousands of dollars to create a descent layout. I'm glad I get things second hand on ebay and train shows and don't mind scratch building or restoring old trains and accessories. You have to have severely deep pockets to enjoy this hobby, even a basic trainset is out of reach for most folks, the way things are a person has to decide, do I spend $40.00 or more on a single piece or do I stock my shelves with food. It's a no brainer, the industry is not truly looking out for the average working stiff in pricing or marketing.
Great video Chris. Like you said, it’s about having fun!
You got that right!
The prices are why! A company that starts with a "W" jacked everything up in the 90's, and everyone else followed. Not everybody wants $500 computerized engines, when the old Athearn ones did just fine!
Would a modern auto rack that is clean and without graffiti be a fantasy scheme? 😂
Now that’s a question!
I see them from time to time 😊
Usually in Jaw Tooth (Ohio area) and Wide World of Trains (Buffalo NY area) videos. Sometimes they manage to sneak in a few trips before the taggers find them 😮
Limited runs keeps prices high and the hobby only caters to the 1% wage earners and collectors. This is especially true for O gauge.
Not true williams makes a good line of locos and their afordable but made in China
Great commentary and much genuine LOLing on this one! We need to remember, ultimately, we are ALL people playing with toys. Enjoy the hobby your way!
I’d say the problems are
1) the cost of the hobby (Trains / Tracks / framework / scenery / electronics / real estate)
2) the need for a lot of dedicated real estate for the layout
3) the confusing electrical setup with locomotive chips / controllers for different brands and age of locomotives
4) and the poor quality control and customer service from some manufacturers
Just enjoy the hobby with what you like!
Amen!
That was pretty funny! Clearly the answer is for model railroaders to pool together and buy enough shares of real railroads so we can force them to paint their locomotives in more colors. Old, retired locomotives, too.
More seriously… I’m pretty new in the hobby and I’d say the most counterproductive advice I see from the experienced crowd is, “Woah, woah, you can’t run that HO passenger train on anything less than a 30” radius or it’ll look terrible!” Yeah, one day we may reach the point where we take over a whole room, but “start huge or not at all” is going to result in a lot of people not starting at all. Especially when kids are involved - they want colorful trains big enough to handle and we grown-ups will squeeze in the realism where we can but it’s not a priority.
$360+ for a single HO scale diesel locomotive is the reason for that scale. I refuse to pay that ridiculous amount. Never mind the $60 or more for a single freight car. Screw that! Glad I built my collection up long ago before these manufacturers went full retard on the prices.
I think what's actually killing the hobby isn't the fantasy trains it's the boring starter sets. My first trains set was the Tyco Chattanooga Choo Choo, that was back in the 1970s, so I don't remember that set very well, I actually too young for it, but I do remember the sound box that came with it for the whistle sounds, and I also remember my uncle put some chemical in its smoke stack to make it smoke, all of that stuff came with the set. The last train set that I got was in the 1980s, it was a modern for its time Union Pacific diesel engine with quite a few cars and a figure 8 track with trestle overpass for the figure 8, I think that set was only $80 at the time. I understand there's inflation and the devaluing of money over time, so understand the prices being more than they are, but I still think for what you're paying for you're not getting a lot out of it, throw in a working train crossing arm like some set had back in the 1970s and 1980s, cargo stations, something beside just a round track.
Enjoyed you take on the issue and especially liked your editing. Very entertaining for sure. By in large I believe the hobby is in good shape and I'm enjoying every aspect of it. While I have always enjoyed the more prototypical look and don't have much in the way of fantasy scheme product, I do have a fantasy scheme locomotive on preorder, lol. Thank you, Chris for a very entertaining video. Bill B.
Great video Chris, I think any train that gets people into the hobby is a great one. Who cares if it’s not a real train that was in service. If someone says they didn’t make them in real life and complain, I say, these trains run on 3 RAILS! And I don’t remember a Lionel Lines railroad!!! We do it all for fun at the end of the day!
THERE IS A FINE LINE BETWEEN A HOBBY
AND A MENTAL ILLNESS 🤣😂🤣
@@ohiosteamandsteel
I ADMIRE YOUR ENDEAVORS TO PRESERVE 🤤
Three rails? When I was a kid this absurd configuration was always a deal breaker for me.
Me too! To each him own I guess. Lional also looks cheesy to me. Some of their newer stuff looks ok, but others?
Great vid and message Chris. Can’t a guy pull a NASA crane with a Conrail switcher without getting a comment about how that can’t happen 😂
I know, let me enjoy my Southern Fishbelly Hudson in peace!
I'm fortunately an old man and have no problems with fantasy on my pike.. it's all 1946- heavy steel, Lionel Locos and painted, decaled, wooden boxcars on an oval track on the den floor. No Pixies, magic woke stuff, and just as much fun for me and my grandkids. And that dude is spot on.. it all costs too much bread nowadays. With the present state of our economy, I'd be surprised if sales went up anywhere. The two most satisfying sounds of a Locomotive from my memory are just running over the tracks and the 5 or 6 reed mournful call of the air horn. Peace out.
I remember Athern came out with a paint scheme that the NP never had. That was back in the 60's. Price is a concern. RTR is great, but I find RRing is about education of all aspects construction electronics art research
I've been saying for years the hobby is not dying. It IS, however, changing. Plenty of younger guys in the Washington DC area into trains, regardless of gauge. Look at those kids clubs by the TCA and another in New Jersey. Plenty of kids in the National Capital Trackers too (I was one...a long time ago!). The hobby will always be around. Will we see another surge like we did in the 1990s and 2000s? Maybe some day but who knows.
Same can and should be said for York. Yes, I was lucky to experience what many would consider the golden years of the 1990s and early 2000s. I think York is going back to it's roots as a members trading event rather than the "trade show" event it grew to. Not a bad thing but I realize that may not be what many who came to expect in the "golden years" with professional and extremely large displays by the major manufacturers wan. Lionel, MTH, Weaver, Atlas, etc had some really first class displays back then. I'm 31 and have been long considered "the kid" but I was very pleased to notice a strong increase in similar age numbers at York in April. Hope it continues, it is a good thing.
Social media is another huge thing that has changed this hobby in the past 10 years or so. CZcams and Instagram have become huge. I set up my Instagram (@matts.train.room) about 18 months ago mainly as I thought it could be kinda fun...I have something like 770 followers now. Not much in the grand scheme of things but that absolutely blows me away. Not to mention, I've met some really solid dudes in the DC area and beyond. Guess I need to get off my rear end and host another Train and Dinner night...
As Bob Dylan once sang, "The times, they are a-changin'".....
The whole deal about the fantasy schemes is sales. This isn't uncommon in three rail O scale. It happens in many scales. Just look at all of the old Tyco engines in HO scale which were painted in railroads that never had that particular engine in which Tyco decorated. As one former hobby shop owner said, "If it is painted in a red and silver Santa Fe Warbonnet scheme, it will sell not matter if it is not prototypical."
As someone who has always wanted a train set/room since I was a child, I can safely say that fantasy is the last thing hurting the hobby. I recently bought a vintage Shell diecast locomotive set with a spare tank car, that's an engine, tender, two tank cars, and a caboose. All unpowered, with plastic frames, trucks, and wheels with diecast metal bodies modeled after the USRA 0-8-0 heavy yard switcher. And it cost me right at $50. And I spent the next four days cutting a gluing popsicle sticks together to make my own two-foot-long set of tracks to display my new model train on. So all in all, I have 5 units (unfortunately one of the cars was missing a whole truck and set of wheels so I can only display the full train without the extra tank car), and two feet of track for around $52 in total cost.
Now what was the cost of a similar sized motorized steam engine with tender again? $300-$500? Yeah. One guy I watch calmly estimated his layout to be around the $2,000 mark in just track and landscape, that price could triple if not quadruple once you add his engines and rolling stock. I just don't have the money for a hobby that cost more than what I paid for my used truck, when I have two games where I can drive existing trains (RailRoads Online), or just build my own trains (Stormworks) however I want. And in both I can pull more than a couple dozen cars at a time to make really long trains. Both of those games together cost less than my new trainset did.
If anything is a threat to the trainset hobby world, it's the large number of train-based games coming out and the ever-growing cost to participate in the hobby at all. In today's day and age, its a bit much to ask someone to spend half a month's worth of rent for a single car or engine.
A lack of competition between manufactures is what is killing high-rail; Weaver and K-line are gone.
Service the key. Postwar owners self serviced but lack of electronic support deterring purchases.
“Fantasy” isn’t causing low fan participation,
it’s $$$
It's tinplate, what did you expect? 13 minutes of my life that I can't get back.
3 things are killing it. Price, price, and price. It's now the realm of rich retirees.
What is killing model railroading: 1) nobody rides trains anymore, so no kids getting fascinated. 2) entry price of train sets. 3) too many old guys doing trains - not a cool hobby for kids…and 4) the old guys are dying off and not replacing themselves with new interested kids to build the hobby.
Correction the Lima built Pierre Markette 2-8-4 berkshire 1225 was the model they used for the polar express, it along with Nickel Plate 759 & 765, C&O 2716, 2760, and others, all built by lima to the Van Serwegen Design.
Jokes and satire aside I think this is why I unironically thought the purple repaint of 9F Taw Valley for the Queen's 80th centenary was not only amusing and absurd yet cool at the same time.
It's such an obscure colour that isn't seen on locomotives often if at all, and it did look like a fantasy loco was turned real.
Purists were up in arms about how "locomotives shouldn't be painted like that!" but c'mon, it's harmless fun and I think it's cool to see a real preservation line experimenting like that.
I'd love to see more preservation lines come up with unique liveries for real locomotives to wear for a while even if they never wore them in service, you can't even argue that it's "taking the locomotives heritage away" since most operational locomotives have had multiple repaints over the decades, so why not get creative with some of their liveries?
It's just that watching a thing go around and around in circles is boring for this generation. I can go to my PC and manage huge railroad companies with routes that are ever evolving. Many railroad games are also challenging logistics puzzles and I can still sit and admire the cool looking trains if I want to relax. And computer gaming as a hobby takes up less space as a bonus. Right now I'm into Railroad Corporation, it's the closest modern game to the famous Railroad Tycoon II that I miss so much. Even Railroad Tycoon III has a modding community update patch that gets rid of the huge mistakes that the original release had, although it's harder to get the graphics to work right because the software is so outdated.
1:45 It seems a bit odd to argue for prototypical engines when the track itself is not prototypical.
LOL
As has been said over and over, it's the entry price that's killing it. One thing we, as modelers, can do to help is to get decent starter locos into the hands of people that really are interested but hindered by the cost. This could be children or adults - not all adults can afford a $250+ DCC loco, but if you have one you don't use, why not give it or sell it cheap to a beginner that shows some real interest.
As for "fantasy schemes", people need to remember the first & second rules of model railroading: 1) My railroad, my rules. 2) If you're not having fun, you're doing it wrong. (There are people that get their engineer's caps in a wad over non-proto things like railroad names, anachronisms (mixed time periods), and graffiti. They need to get over it!)
Great video. I just subscribed. My layout is small compared to yours. My 5 year old son loves the old Santa Fe locomotives with war bonnet red. My 10 year old daughter loves Union Pacific Alcos. We have four vintage diesel locomotives. My kids love the hobby. If they’re happy, I’m happy.
Fantasy schemes are a good concept but the way they’re executed sometimes isn’t the greatest. I’m no expert in design but I wish Lionel didn’t just slap a random paint scheme. I wish they took the time to make it look good
I have a Michigan Central gondola that is the sole survivor of my first HO set-Lionel HO! It had a PRR F7 as I recall that was lost to the ages long ago with the “operating” reefer and everything else. I intend to replace the wheels and install body mounted couplers so that I can put the gondola into revenue service. What I like most about this car is that on either side in addition to MC logo and reporting marks are the words “BUILT BY LIONEL.”
What's keeping me out of trains are the old people that refuse to hold a conversation with someone who isn't their direct descendants and WANT to get in the hobby but talking with these people is unpleasant and useless
As a Life long model railroad enthusiast, I do agree that the prices are what is the worst in the hobby. I mean $40 for an H.O. Scale 40' boxcar? And $60 for an auto rack car? The HO trains I see in some CZcams videos has 30 to 60 of them on one train. This tells me, the man who built the layout is very comfortable or rich. Imagine paying for 30 to 60 Auto Rack cars at $60 a pop. I understand that the freight car details have come a long way since the 70' when your average HO Scale freight car went from, 99 Cents to $4.00. And forget about the locomotives made for the hobby today. DCC And all of the bells and whistles. They cost a fortune. In this day, it is almost impossible for me to rejoin the hobby with limited means. The only way I see myself back in the hobby is, ordering old and used lots off of Ebay. Maybe now and then, a new freight car. But no DCC. Just basic model railroading
Hey Chris, Very good job mate! I loved the graphics and the message. I agree we need more channels and more education so people understand this amazing hobby. Keep the videos coming.
Thank you!
I disagree what’s killing model railroading is that there is not enough advertising toward kids. Yes Lionel does make a lot of sets based on movies and tv shows but let’s see some commercials or ads on streaming services. Let’s get trains back in movies. That plants the seed and will inspire more kids to get involved.
The way I look at is, new designs, fantasy or realistic, will be successful if people buy them. Bad sales mean it was a failed design.
While I won’t hit the dislike button, I think you are dead wrong. For Christmas in 88’, I got a Bachmann UP train set with an engine, 3 cars and a caboose. It was glorious. Fast forward a few years and half of the garage was a train set. The highlight of ownership was the trips to local hobby shops and purchasing the new arrivals and seeing all the hobby genres there. From RC, to scale models of ships, planes and cars and all the supplies supporting each, it was a treat. Fast forward again, 20+ years, those shops are gone, unable to compete with the internet. Coupled with the fact that plastic going around in circles can not compete with high definition graphics of the latest switch game, or what latest video drops with the newest social media challenge, or the ability for a young mind to become totally immersed in the world of instant gratification. How does a hobby that has been priced outside of an actual hobby compete? Then throw in the fact that you might spend months, focusing in on the details or problematic issues of the setup, before the first train makes complete revolution. My son is great kid but he doesn’t have the patience for it. Despite my efforts, the allure of a device is compelling and I have to schedule time away from them. Heck, he doesn’t even have a school book anymore as all of it is on Google Chrome Classroom.
The hobby is dying for many reasons. Yes a massive steam engine, puffing away black and white smoke is awesome but if you read the comments on many of those videos, you also have the mob chanting about “destruction of the environment” as some Shay truck struggles up a grade. Trains are now bad because they pollute. Commerce is bad because American is bad, why celebrate a instrument of commerce? Mortgage payments, rent, groceries, insurance, fuel, car repairs, steal the discretionary income of potential buyers. I can’t even tell you when the last time I had conversation with someone regarding model trains. Years, years.
I miss my little setup. I miss painting the engines, placing MOW vehicles next to the tracks, thumbing through the latest Walters catalog, and time spent with my dad. I wouldn’t trade that.
But it’s dying because the world is moving away from time spent in collective harmony of self, to instant self gratification, all at the swipe of a finger. Why build it, when you can hear it, see it and learn about it, from the comfort of your couch.
Forgive my cynical rant. I am sad as it is another causality of “progress”.
I'm not sure what I'm wrong about though. The entire point that I make is that we need to run what we enjoy!
I know folks who are intererested, but one thing keeps them pretty much out. The high costs.
I agree! Realistic paint schemes for our realistic 3rd rails!
I don't mind fantasy scenes when it comes to 6-axle, high short hood's. I was always disappointed that CNR and CPR did not purchase these beauties.
I was very into collecting HO locomotives and assembling and weathering strings of Life-like PROTO 2000 rolling stock kits: Mill gondolas with new razor-cut wood flooring, riveted tank cars, 4427 hoppers, auto-parts boxcars, and PROTO 1000 plug-door paper boxcars with new brass stirrups .
The assemble yourself, other than resin, kits dried up. Releases of fully assembled rolling stock at three or four times the kit prices took their place, and with no control over molding flash. Assembling those kits was the main part of the fun - like your overlooking a mighty fabricating shop's assembly floor
I regret I did not get into 1/4" scale instead with only two or three locomotives, but lack of availability of rolling stock kits and shocker price for engines that were not the ones I wanted, except for a beautiful custom brass CPR MLW 636, were discouraging.
You are absolutely right about new rolling stock kits no longer being available. The availability of NOS kits has seemed to have dried up as well. For me simply buying an overpriced freight or passenger car and plunking it down on the tracks would not be not much fun at all.
I had both Lionel and American Flyer train sets as presents when I was about eight. By around 1959 I had something like twelve pieces of rolling stock, a Mauntua "Mike" I built (badly) from a kit, a little "Erie" steam tank switcher, two rubber band drive F7s, a "bullet train" several turnouts and enough track for a big oval on a 4x8 sheet of plywood. Most of the rolling stock was of reasonable quality and OK detail. My family wasn't wealthy by any means yet there was enough extra to support a fair number of train purchases. All of this would be out of the question expensive today. I switched to HO and I now regret giving away the Lionel and A.F. trains to the neighbor kids. Oh well.
Fast forward. Being retired, I set out to get the whole kit and caboodle running again. It was all in pretty rough shape. I now, about three years later, have most of the stuff restored and back on the tracks with some cars detailed. All the kid-broken parts have been repaired or replaced. The molded in handrails on a couple of cars were removed and replaced with wire. The rest will get the same treatment eventually. I have a caboose that is of toy train set quality that I might be able to bash into some semblance of the real thing. I'm not a rivet counter but I do like to have my trains at least have a prototype like look.The F7's now have LED headlights. After a lot of TLC and elbow grease, "Mike" run so well that I bought a can motor kit for for it in case I can afford to go DCC at some point. As it stands, "Mike", even with the original open frame motor, pulls twenty cars with ease. The locomotives now run as good as new or better, a very satisfying outcome. Cosmetic restoration of the locos is yet to be done though. That will be some big time fun.
I had a botched craftsman wood caboose kit and was able to disassemble and reassemble it again, this time correctly. It looks great and will be getting super-detailing including full interior and lighting. I also was lucky to find three blue print ice reefer kits on ebay for cheap. One has been completed except for decals (Pacific fruit) and weathering.
For me, most of the fun involves restoring and detailing these old models and running them around my small test oval. If I can find the room and the cash I'd like to build a smallish layout but even scenery stuff is way too expensive, so we'll see.
I have documented some of the restoration projects on my CZcams site and have more in the "can" waiting to be edited and posted.
Thanks for reading to the end 🤓
-dave
The cost of model railroad sets, locomotives, rolling stock, track, and controllers would be what's destroying the hobby because simply put, the cost prevents new blood from entering the hobby courtesy of the inability to afford it on a low income, not to mention the disconnect with the DCC controller with only the obscenely wealthy able to afford it easily rather than anything else although the instructional videos don't encourage people to use their imagination when building a layout
Up in New Hampshire there’s a real caboose with Lionel as the road name. I guess someone hated fantasy enough to turn it into reality! I think you make a really good point that the hobby is actually in a pretty good place. The Amherst show up in Massachusetts attracted around 18,000 people this year. If that’s not proof I don’t know what is.
HOn3 guy here. There is a ton of demand but very little product and variety of product. Brass stuff runs like crap, blackstone is not coming back and those are dwindling in numbers, toma is the only game outside of kitbashing and 3d printing. With most stuff being rio grande there is very little made for smaller roads and other ops which do get people interested. If we had a EBT mike on the market that wasn’t a thousand bucks then we would have a better time. Or even generic 4-4-0’s and 2-6-0’s to bash. Also 2000 dollars for a loco is ridiculous ngl, idk how you O guys get away with lionel having a virtual monopoly on the scale and making few interesting things that are outside of reskins of older models. I want camels that aren’t CNJ 774 with a different road paint dang it
It is the cost of all items from tracks to locomotives. There is no argument here, it is $$$$ pure and simple.
Very nice video. Thanks for posting and have a nice day too.
Greetings from the UK 🇬🇧 I have subscribed as I enjoyed watching your video and agree 100% with take on the hobby.
Welcome aboard!
It’s video games. Kids want immediate gratification. They have no idea how to build something that takes time and thought. Furthermore, most kids have never even seen most of these kinds of trains…the models or the real ones.
There 's a lot of "unnatural" colored aquarium fish too. I can enjoy some insane colored guppies in a fish tank. In another tank I go for let's say 100% Malawi. I'm into history also, industrial, transportation, military. One day I start building this big diorama. In my dreams.
The prices have ruined it for me. I moved back to building model car kits.
I'll take the cost of the hobby for $10,000 - $25,000 for a decent layout, Alex. Remember those old Tycos, Bachmanns, and Lifelikes? The "toy grade" HO. There's a whole sector of the hobby dedicated to buying these toy grade locos and rolling stock on the cheap, and putting in some sweat equity to make them run better with wheel and coupler upgrades, as well as simple cleaning. Plus a large layout is something that ties you to your house, because if you have to move and you have to dismantle that monstrosity....
For the 1225 polar express locomotive, it is actually not a fantasy scheme, because the locomotive it was based heavily on the pere Marquette 1225 is a real locomotive
Sure but pere marquette 1225 didn’t go to the North Pole lol
Fantasy scheme are not the issue with model railroading. As someone who recently switched from O to HO and N here is my take. Smaller gauges are doing very well from what I have seen and larger gauges are having 3 major issues. Including: there is really 1 major manufacturer that consistently puts out product in Lionel, the size and pricing of O gauge turns people away and the fact that smaller gauge trains are more readily available and the feature and detail set now a days in the new stuff rivals Lionel Legacy and MTH premier. I want all gauges to succeed at the end of the day but I think O is having a harder time compared to the smaller gauges. I hope I am wrong but I need evidence to be proven wrong.
Some say the fantasy schemes do sell and provide revenue so the companies can continue to also offer more detailed prototypical models. I'm ok with that.
The hobby is a way to relive oneself from the bs going in the world and switch off and get away from what’s happening and get some enjoyment without the bs MSM and destress
I remember when atlas released CN GP60 and they were sold out very fast.
The main reason is that they had a wide cab and look like GP40-2w.
Then many modelers kitbashed their models,then few years later,they released the accurate GP40-2w.
But the real thing that killing the hobby are the high prices for a train set.
Who doesn’t remember these Bachman, Tyco or Life Like starter kit including everything to start for less than 30$?
Now we can find some starter kit but all over 150$ and can’t find them in any toy store like it was before
Other things that if you look on any F7 on CN paint scheme. Whenever if it’s athearn,life like Bachman or some other manufacturers,road number are most of time 9162. So buying two of them for a beginner will automatically bring two locomotives with the same road number.
Unrealistic, Rip off pricing puts most people off. £269 for a DMU which is basically a £20 coach with a £20 motor bogie. That's why I scratch build my own.
For me it's not just the price that keeps me from getting any deeper in the hobby but the lack of places to get specific trains or rolling stock. How many companies are making N or HO scale Big Boys currently? Where can get various rail guns? Sure if I wanted just normal stock and didn't care what engines I ran then there is a lot of selection but when you start looking for specifics the field is very shallow. It also drives the prices to insane levels like buying a single HO rail gun car for over $300.
I suppose the biggest fantasy here is everything looks fresh , spanking new. No grime.
I don’t think there is any harm with fantasy livery engines. But there is something wrong with how a lot of companies price some locomotives.
The large problem has been the limited choices of real freight car paint or graphic schemes and road numbers from LIONEL over the past 40 years. It seems like somebody wanted to make people lose interest so they can cancel most freight cars.
I like the Pacemaker and the greenbriar sitting here trying to figure out it 0-60 is a possibility in my layout space
The fantasy schemes is what has paid for the prototypes, because of the demand for it and the profits that have been made from it has been used to pay for many low demand prototype models.
price is killing it
Model railroading has never been prototypical, our runs are too short, our curves are way too sharp, our buildings are too compressed, our speeds are (often) way too high, our traffic volumes would give even European dispatchers a desire to get a job pumping gas, our time to complete a simple operation like throwing a switch or making a coupling is nowhere near the time the prototype requires and our starts and stops would bankrupt the prototype with injury and damage lawsuits. How often have we watched a model passenger train come into a station and stop so suddenly that any passengers in the aisle of the prototype would wind up two cars ahead of where they were standing? And heaven help the ones still on the train and standing up when the darn thing started again. How many modelers make up a train and immediately go flying out of the yard, no time to build up air pressure, never mind doing a brake check, not to mention obeying the speed limit inside the yard limits?
On the other hand... who cares, except for a few rivet counters. You are right, the hobby is for fun and if fun is running fantasy scheme locomotives at near lightspeed over Lionel sharp curves, go for it.
If that is what it takes to get some young person interested in the hobby, lets get him hooked first and then later he can learn about "prototypical" later.
Enjoyed your comments. I'd subscribe, but I'm already subscribed to over 60 different channels and one has to draw the line somewhere.
It’s not the fantasy schemes it’s the price of a good locomotive. I mean I took out a 3rd mortgage on my house to afford decoders for my locomotives. Now I need a few keep a lives..
I used to be a person who was pretty much if it’s not Prototypical I don’t like it.
But I have changed some what over the years !
I like it best when model railroaders run their rolling stock at realistic scaled down speeds.
It's not the fantasy scheme, they keep making those because people keep buying them.
The real problem is they are doing nothing to appeal to the younger generations. At this point there should be trains with small cameras in them, that can be run by phone or tablet where you can watch from a cab view on your screen while operating.
The prices they charge are rediculous! I stick with my favorites, pre-war and postwar and some mpc thrown in. I've never been a fan of the fantasy schemes and also, the crew talk thing doesn't do it for me either.
Not sure entirely about fantasy schemes but I will say that the barrier for entry is stupidly high in terms of expense
My ho scale southern pacific ge u28c costed $229 dallors thought the speaker has slight problems and the southern pacific GE ac6000 costed $279 dallors
The reason I even wanted to get into painting my own engines was because I wanted equipment that either never made it into certain paint schemes or keep a railroad alive that ended in the mid-90s.
I paint them for a custom railroad.
I like inventing shortline names for my trains. Montana Wyoming railroad, Nevada Western, Utah Western. Short Line .
Fantasy schemes are fine. Yes have the accurate model's. But it's definitely important to have good looking trains. If anything we need more models of one off trains and concept engines. There's a reason why In other model hobbies the rule of cool prevails.
If anything I feel like companys should be experimenting with selling blanks. Basically just the powered frame where you can buy the outer Shell separately and make an actual model kit the way one wants.
Good point Chris. I’ve always avoided fantasy scheme locos but the ones you showed do look really nice. Thanks for posting.
And in addition, quality of Lionel is lacking for what you are paying for.
One thing is killing the hobby... $$$$$$$
How anyone can justify spending ridiculous amounts of money on today's models only for it all to be worth $0.01 on the dollar in the future is the question.
What gets me is how many people think these fantasy schemes really did exist. When we rivet counters break the bad news to them they get up set with us. 🤪
Then I get my HO ATSF BLI 3460 w/sound and then they ask why I don’t have the cars that went with it.
AHM made a cheesee looking set of 2 tone blue cars for their coal burner (aka NYC Hudson) in ATSF scheme.
Thanks for your satire and your dogs too.
Your on the platform in scale was the coolest video trick I’ve seen,! How did you do it ?