The perfect cut and thrust sword? Albion Doge - type XIX late Medieval sword review
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- čas přidán 25. 07. 2024
- #sword #medieval #review
The Doge is one of four type XIX swords Albion offers, and sells new for $1518. In this video, I go over the sword in great detail, taking a look at it from pommel to tip. I cut water bottles and tatami, and compare it to two other late Medieval/early Renassiance swords. Finally, I give my opinion on whether it is worth the asking price.
Thank you to sword friend pellius for allowing me to review this sword!
Buy a Doge for yourself!
Direct from Albion - albion-swords.com/product/the...
From Kult of Athena (affiliate link) - www.kultofathena.com/product/...
Albion Kern review: • Dia dhuit! Iconic Iris...
Sword typology graphic courtesy of Peter Johnsson.
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Sword measurements photo gallery: photos.app.goo.gl/8EDa3rQFLjw...
00:00 Intro
04:02 Hilt
11:30 Blade
16:14 Cutting
20:48 Handling & Comparisons
32:36 Bottom Line
35:57 Outro
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It's closer to doe-jah, with the emphasis on the first syllable.
I knew that no matter what, I was going to say it wrong! Thanks.
@@alientudeno need to feel bad. The word Doge is actually a Venetian word. The word in standard Italian for Duke is Duce (pronounced doo-che with an emphasis on the first syllable)
That has to be one of Albions most attractive swords. I've always loved the Machiavelli as well. Nice review.
I was looking for a Doge for years. Then suddenly I got one thru SBG forum out of the blue. I have this bad habit of buying swords just before your review them. For myself I LOVE this sword. It handles wonderfully to me, much better than the Riballdo I had from LK Chen. Just like you describe the Kern, the Ribaldo was 6oz lighter than the Doge but with an 8 inch pob.. The one and only down side for me was the corners of the ricasso where the finger ring exists being to sharp. Again I had to take sandpaper to my very expensive sword. It would take literal seconds for the the manufacturer to camphor these corners with a sanding belt while the sword is still being made. At these prices this should be unacceptable for the pinnacle of serial sword making. All surfaces that might come into contact with your hand or fingers should be smooth and comfortable, it's not a big ask.
Awesome. Great overview of a super sexy looking sword. Your cutting sure is coming along! Hopefully I'll get to pick one of these up in the not too distant future
Thanks! It's a sword that really has to be held and moved to really appreciate.
Thanks for posting! I've always wanted this sword.
Glad I could help!
Nice review of a very nice sword. Good info in your reviews, got a new subscriber.
Awesome, thank you!
Beautiful guard, if I would ever get one I would probably try it out in blackened finish and white leather.
Your collection is gorgeous
Thanks!
Excellent review as always 🤘💀 I'd say the cutting was pretty good. You're to hard on yourself, you use a small stand. I'm guessing some of those 2Ls would have stayed standing on mine, or just fell over gently and stayed on at least. The tatami Idk, I've never tried. But they were deep cuts, so not bad by any means. You probably just needed more time to play around and figure out how it likes to cut.
Hell ya I would like to see the other type XIXs Albion makes if you can work that out that would be awesome.
I'm eagerly awaiting you review of the KA atrim XIIIa. I got my new sword BTW🤘 can you guess lol?
For the sake of conversation, and while I understand what you mean, I want to be pedantic about the true/false edge.
In the Italian sidesword tradition, following the manuscripts, as you hold the sword in a hammer grip with the blade in the vertical plane and the point towards an opponent, the true edge is the one pointing towards the ground, and the false edge is the one facing the sky. So the Kern, Condottiere, and Machiavelli have a true edge and a false edge, just like any simple cruciform hilt sword would.
Realising that for the Doge you want to say that only one edge can take on the role of the true edge (the knuckle bow being the main reason for that), I would still point out that the Machiavelli and the Condottiere also can only be used in one correct way, considering the fingerings and side ferrules, so they would also only have one true edge available. These two and the Doge can be used in the left hand, with the Machiavelli switching the role of its edges as it rotates by 180 degree to keep the side ferrules on the outside of the hand. At the same time, as you want the S guard in a specific orientation to facilitate wrist rotations, the Kern cannot switch hands, while it can rotate in the same hand and have any of its edges take on the true/false edge role.
Like I said, pedantic. One can still ignore all these considerations, but where's the fun in doing that. Or they can go further and realise that true edge is dependent on how you hold the sword at that moment (especially if you deviate from traditional guards).
All very good points. Pedantry is not a problem as long as it's not accompanied by a poor attitude.
Great review! Very interesting comparison between the Doge and Kern. That is definitely something that's not apparent from pictures alone. I've always been drawn to the look of the Machiavelli and I wonder if it handles like either the Doge or Kern? 🤔
Thanks! As mentioned, I do have vague plans to get a Machiavelli. Some day. Eventually...
24:09 the Italian schools do different kinds of false edge cuts. For the kinds of false edge cuts they do the finger ring is actually an advantage.
That does help explain things! Although I have next to no training in HEMA techniques, I believe what little I do know derives more from the German schools.
Even if your technique is poor, you should still keep practicing, because you’ll get better eventually. Just don’t give up and keep trying. You can do it, you got this!
Yep, practice practice practice!
I still think that's one of the most attractive models anyone makes.
Hard to disagree with that! The Doge has such an elegant appeal to it.
@@alientudeI’ve always thought it was both the ugliest thing I’ve ever seen and weirdly beautiful at the same time. But I’ve really fallen in love with this sword.
the scabbard needs to be designed specially to accommodate the bit poking out from the back by the way what was it even designed for?
Definitely adds some complexity to the scabbard design! I don't really know if the spur has an actual function other than "looks cool." Maybe if you're binding with the false edge, it can help keep the opponent's blade from running all the way to the guard?
From experience, yes, the scabbard on one side would have a cutout to accommodate the spike and a smaller cutout on the opposite side to accommodate the ring. It's not that complicated to make. So the scabbard is not symmetrical, and you need to be careful when inserting the blade (if you don't wear the scabbard, that is).
I always speculated that the use of the spike in combat to catch a sliding blade was abandoned fast (I would not trust to save my hand) and was quickly superseded by the emergence of side rings on what we call Bolognese type side swords. Venetian swords from that time have a high degree of innovations that were basically dead ends (if one accepts the idea that the Bolognese side sword evolved into the rapier).
@alientude One last comment, since this is probably one of my favourite swords made by Albion (let's say in top 3). From Albion, I bought the Machiavelli. I opted for it since it represented better my interests in Bolognese sidesword. I have a Venetian Doge sidesword made by a different maker (btw. yes, I love the tear shaped pommel, it's so comfortable in the hand, much more than one would think looking at it). Have you had the occasion to handle the Machiavelli? How does it compare to the Doge? I really want to know if the difference in the hand are negligible or if they feel quite different.
I still think I want to get a Doge at some point, but there are so many other swords I want to get as well... In case it sells out by then, my plea to people is to buy the blackened parts with an oxblood colour grip. This way, when you get tired of it and want to sell it, there are more to find in this configuration on the second hand market. 😅
Sadly I have not had a chance to handle a Machiavelli.
@@alientude Sadly indeed... I don't know one single person that has handled both. If you ever do, even if not enough so you can do a video review, and you see my comment on a different video, please drop a quick line and let me know how they compare, I would appreciate it. I really like Albion's Doge, but based on experience, for me, it would be a $2400 plus purchase. 😑
Ok, I got to the end of the video and I hope your plans for the Machiavelli work out. Btw, I only truly study sidesword, and yet, I am still better at cutting with longswords. Longswords make cutting simpler, more natural and more forgiving. When it comes to one-handed swords (less with curved sabres that do indeed make cutting easier) I found out that one really needs to get a lot of things right (i.e. technique and the entire kinetic chain part). I think this is why in Bolognese they do a lot of torso rotations in their big cuts (so not wrist cuts).
The Doge is a bit more lively and more precise than the Mach.
The grip of the Doge swells a bit more than the Mach, and is a bit shorter, too. Also, the finger ring is better formed on the Doge. The langet on the Mach prevents the thumb from resting on the guard.
So when fingering the guard, the Doge is substantially more secure feeling, and responds to wrist inputs more eagerly. The Mach just isn’t as secure in the hand, so is not quite as confident in a cut.
In hammer grip, the length of the grip on the Doge is right at one hand width for me, letting me engage both the guard and the pommel for any chosen movement.
The Mach grip is about five fingers long for me. If I choke up (toward the pommel), though, the disc pommel is surprisingly as ergonomic as that gorgeous tear drop on the Doge. That grip shift is enough to feel the difference in point of balance, though.
The Mach is a very nice sword in the hand, boasting great point control and responsive handling with easy recovery. The Doge, though, is even better.
Just my opinion. I’m not a HEMA guy.
Incidentally, the spike on the blade happens to be right at the point of balance. Dunno if that has anything to do with its purpose.
@@scottmatthews1509 A big, big, thank you! That's a great comparison. In spite of the COB that's even a bit smaller for the Mach, the Doge always gave me the impression that it's nimbler (based on reviews). I think that's due to the pommel, and as you nailed it, due to the grip's length. The Mach pommel being farther behind the hand makes rotations slower (it has a higher moment of inertia). Naturally, this depends on the technique used, and a user needs to make a choice of what he wants.
I think you gave me great feedback that I can extrapolate (not only my brain, but my muscles understand what you wrote). In the grand scheme, it's a minute difference, but for someone like me, I want them both.
The Doge grip swelling more, being shorter and due to the tear shape grip should indeed give you that secure feel. Interestingly, it's also probably a more limited sword in terms of available grips (like rotating the grip in the hand; the knuckle bow is a factor as well) but it does better the hammer, handshake and fingering the guard grips. Like you pointed out, these are wrist controlled grips in a way, with the palm being security locked in.
The Mach feels more versatile (e.g. you can hold the sword in a palm grip: palm facing down, with the meat of the palm well on the flat of the pommel with the quillons facing left and right and the finger just over the quillon; it's a more rapier type grip), and the weight and balance fell like I would expect from a Bolognese sword. As I see it, the Mach gives you more freedom to switch grips during a fight. It's something that I am experimenting with these days.
The langet on the Mach is supposed to help you with rotations around the axis of the blade, so it's needed there (kinda the role a thumb ring is supposed to have in a way, but without affecting other grip forms). But as you pointed out, it does make using the thumb on the blade grips harder. So we already can see that the Doge has a more simple messer use quality to it (the blade spike having the binding role of the messer spike; again, I would not trust it though).
So the Mach is more versatile, but has tradeoffs as a result. I see it as a more martial technique oriented sword (one of the few good reasons not to have a knuckle blow hilt). The Doge is simpler to use in a way, but better specialised in its role. It was probably intended to be a hanger you have with you, just like the Germans would do with a messer, but fancier because we're talking about civilised Venetians here. Just thinking about all these rekindled my love for the Doge and my Mach. At this point, I'm re adding the Albion's Doge on my list to buy.
That false edge is so long!
It's almost like they took a traditional wheel pommel blank and ground it down into the proper weight. That's a really odd shape
If it's a false edge why bother with the blade shape of 2 edges? why not a single edge like a saber or falchion?
It's not false as in not sharpened - the terminology is true edge and false edge.There are a lot of false edge cuts in historical fencing. I found out from comments on this video that Italian fencing with this type of sword uses a different type of false edge cut than I'm used to, without thumbing the blade, so it's very possible to use the false edge with the proper technique.
Google translate gives the proper pronunciation, something like Doh-jeh the accent is on the Ò