I will say one part that I didn't mention. Floch did start to think about how Paradis would probably still fight each other. But that was a lil later. At the beginning he believed that the rumbling would solve all of their problems (see his conversation with Jean about not having to fight anymore for proof). Where Erwin believed from the very beginning that the fighting was never going to stop. So once again it just goes to show that Erwin would be against them. Floch thinking about that fact later only goes to show how their is no person in the right in either the Yeagerists and the Alliance and how their is no "good guy" in this scenario like so many people pretend their are in order to poop on the alliance, blah blah blah. You get it. Just had to try and protect myself from the "Um actually" crowd lol. Hope you liked the video!
But he will probably be alot more neutral than armin. He will give amnesty to the marleyan soldier that willing to surrender and take the volunteer under his protection and give compensation for them because of the rumbling. He will also try to stop the yeagerist from doing a massacare on the island, he will did his best to keep the island stable but he probably won't team up with the anti marleyan volunteer and warrior unit to create the alliance.
Floch was saying that Jean didn't have. Floch believed that the Jeagerists would be the ones fighting. As shown as how they instantly reformed into the Edlain Military.
Also Erwin had a much better understanding of human nature than Eren, so he wouldn’t be shocked when he saw how humanity outside the walls acted and he’d understand that it doesn’t make them all weak or all bad. So nothing about his mind would change, it wouldn’t be a dealbreaker and Erwin would still want to negotiate with humanity instead of killing them.
@@stonebrix168 No. They could have easily done Armin's plan, and used the extra time to negotiate peace. Eren himself said before they left for Marley that what they needed was more time. Eren just wanted to kill everyone, despite knowing it was wrong.
@@greatdune3174 say that in reality when your family was killed because of their race and because of brainwashed idiots outside of your home,obviously you don’t understand war if you think this
THANK YOU. Honestly I'm shocked at how many people didn't see how disillusioned he was with people fighting each other. I only disagree with one small point, and that's that Levi gave Armin the injection not because he believed he was the best choice, but as a selfish decision to let his friend, who was forced to be a "devil" out of necessity, with terrible guilt for the people he led to his death, finally be at peace and released from the hell he lived.
But this analysis isnt entirely right , because the only solutions are to fight them or to bring peace, and erwin isn't who we see him as to the eldian racecucks in Marley that wanna be marleyan, or the marleyans, hes just another " island devil"
@@lolok866 eldian racecucks😂😂 I agree, but I can't see him going for the rumbling nonetheless. Erwin was incredibly disillusioned by people fighting each other and he only did what he did, sure for his curiosity, but also for "humanity". If I'm honest, I think given what we know now Erwin would finally have broke mentally. We already know he was so plagued by guilt that he was suicidal. To bring that to full on genocide against innocent people I think would have been too much for him. Especially since it's no longer just a battle against the titans. However, if he managed to keep himself together we already know what a skilled negotiator/speaker he was. I think he would have held the scouts together and I don't believe the Yeagerists would have existed. It wouldn't have been perfect, but I feel like he would have avoided a full rumbling at all costs. He wouldn't have been above threatening it, but actually doing it? At the end of the day nobody will 100% know, but I just don't see it :/
@@anakin-is-panakin Its both. Levi outright spells he made the conscious choice of choosing Armin fully knowing he would have to step into Armins role. The says that in chapter 136
@user-tg9gt6bk9u Reiner did need to kill to survive tho??Wtf was he supposed to do?He was a warrior and a product of his mother's revenge plan that failed anyway
One of Erwin's dreams, the one from his childhood was the idea and question if people lived outside of the wall. I find it hard to believe that he would choose to destroy all of humanity beyond the wall, because even in his last moment his mind went back to the idea of what if there are people outside of the wall.
We don't exactly know how erwin would be like post basement twist. All of his character motivations, his sacrifice plays were all to just know the truth and see of his or his father's theory was correct. His character motivations stop after that which is why I feel isayama decided to let erwin die there. Going to the outside world was always armin & erens dream.
No Armin's own and only dream is to go and see the fucking sea no more than this no humans nor anything else that matters or even were more important than the fucking sea.
That is the point of theorizing, obviously you cannot definitively state whether or not Erwin would support the Rumbling but we can look at his past actions and motivations to hypothesize what he would have done.
this is an amazing analysis, not just obvious points about erwin’s character but also lots of stuff from earlier arcs people never bring up and all the connections between the uprising and the rumbling. it’s like people only focus on the mountain of corpses and not what made us love erwin: his selflessness and devotion to saving humanity in all of his best moments plus the music swelling when you show erwin’s final charge was incredible
Thank you! I'm happy you liked that part too, cause even I'm surprised at how well it turned out lmao. But yeah I'm surprised no one else brought up the connection between the Uprising and the Rumbling! I never noticed it myself till my recent reread tho so I can't talk too much I guess haha
10:08 i literally got shivers. This is exactly what I thought about Erwin in his final moments. So many expeditions done most of them for his dream but this last one was for HUMANITY. He's being selfless at this part he gave up his dream he spent his ENTIRE LIFE working on even if its so close to reality tangible even. Yet he gave that up for humanity.
I think what's important to note is that most of the survey corps had goals that were about discovering the world outside the walls, apart from eren, and then floch and the newer recruits, who were focused on killing all their enemies and achieving victory. The rumbling is destroying that outside world that they had dreamed of, including Erwin, so I don't see how he would ever support it.
The majority of people who claim that Erwin would have been in favor of the full-scale rumbling, are the same people that support the rumbling themselves. I think it’s mostly because nearly all fans agree that Erwin was the greatest character with the most fervently held principles in AOT. And as such, if they can convince themselves that the the most principled character would be in favor of the genocide of like 99% of humanity, they themselves can more easily justify it.
@@t-ro6176 it's possible, like kidnapping Willy Tybur and make him side with them. Also they could atleast do what the og plan to make a small scale rumbling to destroy all military bases around the world so Paradis would have enough time.
@@vertex6586 Enough time to do what? Continue to fall behind? The 50 year plan was a scam that Zeke came up with to trick Paradis into letting him sterilize all Eldians.
@@vertex6586lmao kidnapping Tybur? Yeah like that’s gonna stop THE WHOLE WORLD from wanting to commit genocide lmao. Also a small scale rumbling? They explicitly said that within a few years titan power would be useless. It was only a matter of time before genocide of all Eldians.
I personally think that if Erwin had been alive, the situation would not have come to a point where the Rumbling would be necessary. I think he would have a better hold of the politics involved with opening up Paradis to the wider world.
Erwin wouldn't not let the scouts get torn in fact he would've more then likely kept eren in check . Because erwin was the one people were loyal to . Hange was erwins 2nd in command next to Levi so her beliefs are more then likely the same as erwins .
The thing about Erwin that people forget is how he gambles. It's basically the Trolley problem. He gets the smaller number of people killed to save to larger number of people, or for a larger number of people that would be saved in the future due to that decision.
Good pionts! I DO want to point out there's a very, VERY, tiny (and mostly silent) section of fandom who believe there's no way to know whether Erwin would support the Rumbling or not. And they believe NO ONE is an heir to Erwin's legacy: Not Floch, Not Armin, Not Hange, Not Levi, and NOT Eren. No one. They wouldn't believe any of them have any similarities with Erwin either. I don't agree with this, but thought it fair to let it be known of their existence and that there more than two sides to this.
Isayama told us. With his manga. It is nothing stated and implied through Erwin always appearing as some sort of force ghosts, giving approval to the scouts actions. It could not be more spelled out
things would be definitely be better if erwin was alive,he doesn't necessarily have to support the rumbling,would paradis be even divide into two factions? Erwin can definitely hold them together for a common goal
I like your argument but I still might have to disagree. His whole life dream was like you said finding out what was in the basement. After doing that, his new motivation would be preserving the life inside at all cost. Like stated, he stands upon his dead comrades bodies. This was all built on their sacrifice. Now I’m not saying he’d go straight to killing, but I also believe the infighting wouldn’t have been as bad. I don’t think he would’ve fell for Zeke wine plan. But if things still got to the point where everyone gathered together to kill them, he would have to “become the devil “ and do what’s necessary in order to preserve humanity in the wall, as that was built on his comrades sacrifice.
Erwin's life goal was to know if his father was right. He wanted to know about the outside world too. He focused on the basement because he thought the answers to his questions were there. After learning about the outside world it is not unfair to say he would agree with Hange to go see it. I think however he may have been more proactive overall. He may have accepted help from Hizumi for exchange of gas. It could also be argued that if Erwin hadn't died the Yaegerist might not even exist.
He will fight and not negotiate as much as Armin but mass genocide would never come across his head. Eren is just a hot-headed with a mindset of a school mass shooter. That’s all
Armin is my favorite character of the entire series and while it hurt to see Erwin miss out on his dream he also deserved to rest after so much death. I'm not sure he'd have taken being revived over Armin as well as some think. He'd have weathered the storm sure, but it would have been so much guilt. It was such a treat to watch Armin over one his insecurities and really come into his own. You could actually see some of that Erwin passion in him at the end. Overall I loved the series from start to finish.
I know this sounds weird but ur videos are really helping me relieve some stress right now cuz I got final exams coming up in june and Im definetly not ready, but these vids kinda put me in my own space for a while where I really just get to reflect on my favourite shows. Also this is one of my favourite vids from you keep up the good work and I can’t wait till the updated aot final chapter thoughts
Erwin could stop the meteorite by just looking at it he could reassure some countries that Eren is not a threat as long as they work with them and unite them against Marley. My paradise an industrial country with modern weapons with the help of the Hisuru plan(or even maybe other new allies) He could have come up with such a brilliant plan that could establish peace for generations without a massive massacre That's what I think
I will admitted that I do not like Armin for seeking peace with Marley despite how much unlikely it is either. But I have always been neutral about whether or not Erwin will support the Rumbling. But I do still believed that had Erwin lived, he will come up with a better plan than Armin and Hange. Their plan is basically just hoping that Marley will listened to what they have to say while also failing to realize that Marley is nothing but a bully. And the only way the bully will listened is to use the aggressive negotiation like pointing a gun at the head to force the bully to comply. This is what Erwin will realized. Well, Eren did realize this as well and even tell Armin about this at one point but he seemed to not think much about it. Plus, Eren was too busy dealing with the fragments of reality he received after he kissed Historia's hand at the ceremony. But back to the point, Erwin will see the Rumbling as the last resort but also knowing that peaceful negotiation with Marley is not possible either. So what will he do? War is the only solution. But what about Yelena said about Marleyan military can deployed like million troops? Well, I take that with a grain of salt and I think Erwin will do the same, especially after he heard how much of praises Yelena is given to Zeke, the one who caused a lot of destruction to his home. But how can Paradis waged a war against Marley and win? This is where my plan, which I called the Heraclius Plan, entered the picture. This plan is named as such because it was inspired by how Emperor Heraclius forced Shah Khosrow II to accept peace on his own terms by launching military campaign into the Iranian heartland and cause damages as much as possible. In order to get the better picture of this plan, I suggested that you go watch a video about the last Roman-Persian War of 602-628 in order to at least roughly get the idea behind this plan. Of course, I wished I can tell you about this plan in details. But I cannot do that because I tried that before a few times but CZcams does not allowed me. But back to this plan, the dedicing factors depended on timing and execution because it will worked to its fullest potential only when Paradis decided to attack Marley when Marley was preoccupied with the war against the Mid-East Allied Forces. By capturing ports such as Karifa and Liberio and put them under occupations, Paradis troops can launched devastating raids against Marley, destroy supply lines, ravage the countrysides, demolishing key cities that housing the factories that produce foods and weapons for the Marleyan military. And when the news of these attacks reached the troops on the Mid-Eastern front, Zeke will most likely volunteered to come back to deal with them. But when he did arrive, Zeke instead defected and assist Paradis' troops in their rampaging campaign in order to gain Eren's trust. Eventually, wars on two fronts and the secession crisis in Onyankopon's homeland will forced Marley to negotiate with its enemies when the Tybur family is being forced to choose between international humiliation and economic collapse and accept peace on their terms. After the war ended, Marley will not be able to wage a war against anyone for a while due to the need of economic recovery.
Armins plan was not to just wait for Marley to eliminate eldia. Iirc he supported the 50 year plan and a partial rumbling to take out any major military targets so that Paradis would be competitive militaristically and to slow down the advancement of technology, keeping the threat of titans as good enough to serve as leverage for peace talks People just think of Armin being very passive in s4 becahse he was left scrambling because Eren kept throwing curve balls
@@horizontalnoodlelmao4286 Instead of supporting the 50-Year Plan, I think join the Marley Mid-East War will be the better solution. Sure, we did see the Mid-Eastern troops being racists to Falco and Porco. But thats just it. Plus, they are not the ones in charge. It's the Beys of the Mid-East Eyalets who are in charge of politics and diplomacy. So when they realized that war was beginning to not go well for them and that Paradis approached them with an offer to help, why refused at all? And if they did win, this will mean a lot for Paradis. First thing first, Paradis' image will be shifted positively because they defeated an agggresive expansionist that is Marley in a war. Two, the Mid-East Eyalets will most likely be unified under the single Sultan and the newly-formed Sultanate will most likely become Paradis' main defender for the sake of its own interests. Three, Paradis will gained a seat on the international stage, thus making Marley hated Paradis even more. However, they cannot do anything about it since they needed to prioritize the economic recovery of their country first. Plus, they lost more than half of the navy in the war against the Mid-East Eyalets. Four, Marley might not only fell into revanchism but also in a civil war sparked by those who wanted to equalize the Eldians and the other ethnic groups in Marley. But of course, these will come with costs of Marley hating Paradis even more like I said before and Hizuru ended up being diplomatically isolated for playing both sides.
@horizontalnoodlelmao4286 The 50 year plan sucked. Starting the rumbling at any point makes Paradis a target for the world, you can't halfass a genocide. There was no other option that was presented. It was either fight back or die. Peace talks weren't doing shit.
Please don’t take this as a backhanded compliment, it’s meant as a regular one: I looked through your channel and given that it seems like you have only been doing videos for about a year, and your sub count is still in the early stages of growth, I am extremely impressed with the level of thought, time, effort and overall interest/passion of this video as well as some of the others I’ve skimmed through. You will definitely go far if you keep providing this quality of content.
I Agree most of what you had said but the reason i hate armin is because he almost didn't do anything during the event that led to rumbling. Being one of that was chosen instead of erwin. Erwin being alive would make this more you could say more interesting in a story than what it is now. And maybe eren making the decision to do the rumbling wouldn't have come to fruition.
I mean, let's look at what happened between the Marley attack & the rumbling, Armin was forced to play catch-up due to an unfair advantage. Plus, the story needed the rumbling to happen so, Armin would have to be restricted from doing anything to stop it somehow like, not being able to transform because his friends are next to him, Eren going rogue, Eren gaslighting him, etc. Eren, having future knowledge, was always ahead of everyone, forcing them into a reactionary role, to try & catch-up to him. Getting mad at Armin because he couldn't outplay someone who can see the future is unfair because nobody else could do it either. It just feels like you're treating Armin as the exception here when there are other characters with intelligence comparable to his own. If we look at the stuff before Marley, he & Hange cooked up the soft rumbling plan as a last resort & were willing to try as many diplomatic approaches as possible to protect Paradis & help it co-exist with the world. Regardless, Armin was doing something. It's only until after Marley that he & everyone else were forced into a reactionary role (again) due to Eren's future memories. Erwin was as smart as Armin, but even he can't outplay future knowledge. He would've been forced into the reactionary role just like Hange, Armin & everyone else. In fact, Erwin has been forced into playing catch-up in the past when fighting the warriors. Point is, Did Armin do nothing? No. Was he forced to play catch-up? Yes. And not only did he catch-up, he also surpassed Eren in the end.
Thanks for this, I definitely 100% agree with you that Erwin would never EVER be a Jagerist. I respect that man a lot and I know he cares about people…constant war and death can make you disillusioned and numb but I feel he cares more deeply about his comrades than most people think. If he was truly selfish, he’d prioritise his goal over sacrificing himself as you said. With Eren…I am really unsure what to think about him, he definitely has absolutely horrendous anger issues since he was a kid and he has been selfish a lot of the time, but he’s also shown he cares and feels remorse…I think he’s only doing this because it’s the only way to save his friends. But then how he manipulated his Father was disgusting…honestly I’m unsure if he does actually care for Mikasa and Armin…was he lying to them so that they’d hate him and kill him so he can be the scapegoat to peace between nations or are those his true feelings?Eren is really confusing to me…but there is no way Erwin would partake in a genocide, no matter the reason. Also no idea why people hate Armin, he’s a great guy.
long story short: "Erwin would not support Rumbling but if Eren started the Rumbling, he wouldn't turn the scout into Naruto squad and start going after Eren to stop the rumbling either because he is a logical man and not Naruto Uzumaki.
I've always thought that if Erwin Smith was alive, he'd try to negotiate Idk some badass mind games probably that he's so good at. Something that neither Armin or Hange wouldn't be able to think of but something only he'd be able to pull off bc idk experience in being a leader and a good chess player at that? (Aot2 game)
I think it all comes down to whether Erwin would have ventured out into the outside world or stayed in Paradis. All the characters besides Eren who made that trip and actually experienced humanity outside Paradis were not ok with the rumbling, whereas others such as Floch who don't see the outside world until they are at war with them do not have any emotional connection with those living on the outside. I know that this also comes down to their personalities, and that Floch and many Yeagerists are simply more cold hearted, but we see the warriors do basically the same thing to Paradis that the Yeagerists are doing to the world and it's not until they develop deeper connections that they truly start to empathize with those who live there. I believe the same to be for most characters. I mean even Armin was willing to kill at least a few tens of thousands of innocents to save his friends at Liberio even after experiencing the outside world and overall being one of the most empathetic characters in the series. This is also seen in characters such as Daz and Samuel. We don't know nearly as much about them as the main characters but we know they are not cold hearted people, theyre just scared. The only difference between them and Armin or Connie is that they are unable to empathize with faceless 'enemies' that they know near nothing about. Sorry this kinda turned into a Yeagerist apologist rant, but I really do believe that the many of the Yeagerists are simply more morally correct than Erwin, who convinced teenagers to kill themselves without even considering any other option.
There wasn't much of anther option for Erwin to make at Shiganshina though :( he couldn't bring them over the wall the beast titan would have just killed them. They couldn't stay there because they'd still get killed. If they were going to die anyway might as well die fighting for victory than hiding. So it's a bit unfair to say that he just sacrificed teens in that moment. :< the new recruits had no odm gear. No weapons. No cannons. Nothing. Just flares and horses. They got cornered and he did the only plan that seemed logical to him for a better outcome for everyone unfortunately that plan was to be a distraction.
@@melodicomen777 There were plenty of maneuvering techniques that they normally use to outflank the titans, charging straight towards them was tactically and morally an awful move on Erwin's part. There was also the fact that they came underprepared to Shiganshina in the first place, which wasn't fully Erwin's fault, but the scout leaders and regiment commanders such as Erwin, Hange, and Levi get way too much credit when in reality they made plenty of horrible decisions. Even Magath placed more value on his warrior's lives than many of the scout leaders did on their regiments.
@@stonebrix168 nah there was nothing they could do. The accuracy of the beast titan would’ve killed most of the scouts. Plus they had smaller titans plus the cart titan. He did the best idea since Levi could sneak behind while the beast titan was distracted and kill them. If they have maneuvered, the beast would’ve either sent his titans after them which would’ve led to him noticing Levi, or him noticing Levi as he looks in a direction other than straight.
@@sailorclout I truly believe that the morality of the Yeagerists lies with one unanswered (as far as I know I havent dug that deep) detail- whether or not the bulk of them are aware of the nature of the founder's powers, such as whether Eren can control how many wall titans are summoned. We know that Floch knows (which is why I think we can all agree that he's not quite the moral stalwart), we also know that the alliance and most likely the military government know, but it may be dismissed by some as allied propaganda. This is why I think that the lower ranking Yeagerists don't exactly know what they are truly supporting, as they may believe that there's simply no other way to save paradis
This point really doesn't matter that much because Erwin more likely could have come up with a solution that wouldn't make Eren resort to the rumbling in the first place. We saw Eren begging Hange for a better solution and she couldn't Armin couldn't either and wasn't in the position to do so anyway since he wasn't the scouts leader or leader of paradis. I 100% feel Erwin would have had better solutions and would have been closer to a diplomatic solution, he had the charisma, the willingness to dirty his hands, and the brains and charisma is arguably the most important aspect in getting the support of others that Armin lacked
damn right I don't like flop Armin, Erwin should have gotten the injection even if he didn't support the rumbling he would still keep everything in place, banger video btw.
Nice vid! Honestly, I agree The point of Erwin taking risks in the first place was to find out if his dad's theory was right--- that there is still more outside the walls, unexplored territory, new discoveries to be made I mean, his last thoughts before death was answering his dad's question!
Maybe not for his character, but objectively speaking the choice between Armin and Erwin is a a reflection of the choice for or against Eren. Erwin is also objectively an excceptionally selfish person, and even admitted multiple times, not just to Levi but to his own superiors, that he would sacrifce humanity just for his dream. He's sacrificed so many people that the only way for him to cope with his atroccities is to keep Eren alive no matter the cost to the outside world. Erwin is also a gambler, he was banking on the gamble he'd live and that he couldn't see the truth. Also, he DID know of the outside world, he knew that there was at least one empire outside of the walls working with titans in order to kill everyone on Paradis. Erwin wouldn't want to do the Rumbling, but Erwin also would have acted very quickly, the idea of a full scale rumbling wouldn't even cross their minds. He'd have understood the situation a lot better than Hange did. Also, Erwin purposly drew soldiers from other regiments in order to sacrifice them for his own gains without their consent. He also sacrified hundreds of innocent civilians to capture Annie. The bloodless coup was Erwin manipulating Pyxis and trying to gain popular support, and not a representation of his actions at all. Also, objectively speaking, Eren's plan is one that would work if he succeeded. It's even confirmed in the manga itself, but Erwin would have undoubtedly have found a different way that works with Eren and his goals. Erwin's entire worldview would be traumatically and dramatically changed because he has 13 years left to live, he doesn't have time, and I believe that's a MASSIVE point to give to Erwin supporting Eren and the rumbling or at least a partial rumbling. Also, him dying for mankind is one of his gambles and another selfish action done by itself. He fully believed people existed outside the wall, he's believed that since a kid. To him it is reality even if he doens't fully understand that. It's essentialy a religious zeal he has, so when the outside world was wanting Eldia dead would be a massive shock that would make him a prime subject for Eren manipulating Erwin, at least temporarlity. Eren is a religious core to Erwin. Erwin would support a partial rumbling no question, but he'd fill the same roll Armin did after seeing Eren sent ALL of the titans out. Erwin would have probably acted slower after finding this, and Levi would probably force him back on track if he's not dead. More of humanity would be dead outside the walls, Armin managed to save 20%, I imagine Erwin would have only been able to save maybe 10%, maybe even less outside of Paradis. I also agree that a lot of people just hate Armin and instantly assume the inverse would happen if Erwin was chosen. The fact is, the Rumbling will happen regardless. It's only a question of how much of the outside will be still left, and I believe that Erwin would save less people than Armin did, and that he may even intitially support it, and seek to understand what Eren's true objective is. One he learns for certain that Eren will genocide all of mankind outside the walls he'll likely crack, and cost valuable time. That said, people don't seem to care at all about how important of a role Mikasa will share in this. We've just assumed she'd do nothing, but with the loss of Armin, I genuinly believe that Mikasa would have told Eren she loves him and to run away with her, and that the rumbling would never happen, that they'd live his remaining years out. The reason Armin was chosen, was because Eren wanted to do the rumbling.
Very good video. Thanks for being so thorough. Erwin was an incredible character who always thought about saving the most people with as few deaths as possible. I also agree he would support a small-scale rumbling just like Armin. Personally i think Isayama had to kill Erwin off otherwise the plot would be too imbalanced and boring. Erwin would keep things "stable" but since Armin is still young and learning he couldn't know how to resolve things like how Erwin would, and the plot stays "exciting" as it sets up an epic anti-hero.
I know right? Like that was the idea that marco came up with when he died. In fact is that not like the whole point? Like i always seen aot as anti war and anti violence
Peace was never an option in aot. Eldians oppressed and made Marley suffer for 2,000 years, all their hatred grew toward the island for 100 years, Eren wiped out most of the world's population, destroyed their homes and resources and family members, and you think they will buy Armin's story? Don't believe me? Oh that's fine just wait until the extra pages get animated and see for yourself.
Bro i need to let this out. Im so fuckin pissed at this youtube algorithm. How the fuck are you still at 3k subs with this type pf QUALITY content i just dont get it. I hope the numbers don't discourage you. Please give it your best till the end. I just know that you deeply feel the characters you analyze and thats what makes your videos so entertaining i hope people will catch on sooner rather later.
About the idea that the Alliance are "anti-Paradis". Here's a scene from the manga that could well disprove that. SPOILERS. CHAPTER 139 (THE FINAL CHAPTER) . . . . Don't forget that the Alliance's final scene in the manga is them sailing to Paradis to conduct peace talks. Annie and Pieck point out how the Jägerists could kill them all, since they're considered enemies and traitors. Jean and Connie's families live in Historia's protective custody so the Jägerists don't kill them. But they still move forward with the hope of establishing peace...with Paradis! I don't think they're anti-Paradis. Too idealistic? Maybe. But not anti-Paradis.
@@INCAnitysy Can i say yes ? and that's the only remaining right option since Armin and the other alliance members didn't done anything real in those four years Timeskip before the great Marleyean and outside world invasion
My question is what would he have done to defend the outside world then, cause eren did the rumbling cause there was no other alternatives. Erwin literally said eliminate enemy threats, so why would he join the enemy to destroy the island his soldiers died protecting? If he was to join the alliance and kill and betrayed the island he would’ve betrayed everything he said in his final charge. I think you just want him not to defend it cause then he would be against the alliance, and Erwin isn’t foolish enough to trust people who were genociding the island to help him.
LOL. There are tonnes of choices to help Paradis survive 😂 The only reason Eren did the rumbling so that Historia didn’t have to shorten her life by inheriting the Beast titan. The peace talk never work because Armin and Hange didn’t have the mindset and visionary of Erwin. If Erwin was still around, Tybur wouldn’t have had the opportunity to declare the war. Erwin would have definitely used Rumbling on a small scale to crush the world military and any related infrastructures. Besides, using titan power to affect the economy is the most potential solution. In real world, the reason that there are many more countries hesitate to start wars is because of the economic effects. They don’t want to start a thing that could destroy everything they built for decades in just a blink of eye. Eren didn’t have the mindset and visionary of a true leader and yeagerists keep saying that mass genocide is the only option 😂
@@GregSmithIII US has the nuclear just like rumbling. Did they drop nuke on all Japan territory or just 2 biggest industrial cities? Yeagerists don't know a shit about politics and history. All they know are mass massacre and how rizz is main character. What a waste when this masterpiece has to be read by these brainless morons
I mostly agree with this video, just one nit-pick: up until the basement reveal, everyone on Paradis believed they were the last of humanity, which is what Erwin fought for to protect and to prosper. Having learned that humanity is NOT on the brink of extinction, and that there are billions of other humans existing in the outside world, it might change Erwin's outlook on humanity (given the hatred of his people), but not enough to where he'd support omnicide. In order to protect the people of Paradis, he'd try to take the most diplomatic approach while spilling bloodshed where absolutely necessary.
It's been a while since I read the manga tbh. But what's the most diplomatic approach to 95% of the world seeing your people as litteral inhuman demons (With reason since yk, can turn into titans) ? AND the governments of these people are just eyeing Paradis island as a sweet sweet underdevelopped ressource piñata full of fancy gas, oil... Not only ripe for the taking but 100% justifiable to their people since yk *They have/are weapons of mass destruction* ?
FINALLY! I have been saying this for so long! Erwin could've stopped it one way or another, choosing Armin was a mistake. Erwin would have done everything *humanly* possible to establish peace with the rest of the world. He could have dome it. Erwin is GOAT. Erwin always wanted to know the truth regardless of what it is and wanted to rid the threat of Titans to humanity, Eren and his rumbling was the threat he fought against his whole life despite it being different from his original perspective. As Hange said "we're back to our original mission".
Yes You are right Now I am gonna just put the link to this video whenever people mention Erwin siding with Rumbling cause I really agree with this video
One thing I never see anybody bring up is how in Shiganshina, Armin wasn't just chosen by Levi. When he lifted Erwin's arm to give him the injection, ERWIN HIMSELF threw his arm up and refused to let Armin die. somehow I never see anyone on either side bring this up.
that's Because Erwin was just memorizing the moment when he raised his arm up to Question his teacher's theory (his father) in the class when Erwin was still a child and not to refuse to let Armin die.
I can understand why you would think that it's well explained but for the reason that erwin sent himself and others to their deaths to let levi have a chance at killing the beast titan. Would in my opinion make him at least side with erens ideals. Besides he was the one who stood up for Erens titans back when everyone wanted to kill him. He wants his goals of the outside and to protect his people.
You had me till the first half 100%, still you started saying he is like Armin, don't disgrace him like that ! Armin could never be even 2% as far-sighted as Erwin, period. Armin has proved times and times again that yes he might be able to get them out of the situations currently, but never has been able to predict, plan and think outside the box like his enemies and thus the failures over and over again.
Armin is too irrational and doesn't think straight. Of course, he is nothing like Erwin. Like if Erwin had the colossal titan he wouldn't sacrifice himself for an enemy child soldier. And what did Armin even do in the final season: Nothing, no plans, no solutions. And people think this idiot comes close to Erwin. Yeah, not in a million years.
You've built a strawman to defeat the argument. I agree it's stupid to think Erwin would become a Jeagerist. They were brutal, xenophobic and all kinds of messed up and Erwin would never tolerate that. But he WOULD support Eren none the less. And that's because Eren, unlike the Jeagerists has seen and experienced the outside world. He heard even the most pro-Eldian political group openly supporting genocide of Eldians within the walls. He heard Willy proclaim a global, genocidal war on Paradis and representatives of all major nations cheering in tears. He saw first hand that the world has been building up hatred for Eldians for thousands of years, and came to detest them so much, they were all happy to join hands with Marley, basically the Nazis of the AoT universe, just to murder them all. He went through all of the peaceful options with all the geniuses he could find, like Zeke and Armin, saw that all of them included Eldians being AT BEST given a little bit more time, but eventually being erased from existance just the same. You are misquoting Erwin over and over when you're trying to show how he chose humanity over himself. Erwin fought to save HIS PEOPLE. "Humanity" in the walls. Just like Eren. The innocent, ignorant people who had their memories stolen and were going to be slowly fed to titans before they inevitably go extinct. People who only wantedtbeir freedom back. This racist, genocidal humanity that lives outside the walls, Erwin never fought for, or cared about. Armin only chose the outside world over the Eldians because the outside world WAS HIS DREAM. His obsession. And in that Erwin and Armin were never the same. That was the whole point of Levi's choice. Not the fact that Armin and Erwin are alike. But that they are fundamentally different in the end. In the end, Erwin cared for humanity in the walls more than anything, while Armin always cared for the outside world more than anything. It doesn't take a genius to know how each of them would see the Rumbling. Armin's plan of "test rumbling" included sacrifising Historia and her children to make them into anither royal family that is cannibalizing each other to hold on to the power. The same royal family Erwin helped to overthrow. It included Eldians accepting their own inevitable demise as titans were becoming obsolete as war weapons by the second. The same Eldians for whom Erwin sacrifised everything to protect. He would NEVER go along with Armin's plan. The very idea is silly.
Even so. Eren would destroy the world because the raid in Liberio would be a huge succes since Erwin wouldn't just transform but also help Eren killing every soldier(Including Gabi). With Eren having a supreme form of the Founding Titan the World would be done for.
I understand Erwin wouldn’t be okay with the rumbling, the problem everyone forgets is that the other choices they were left with were horrible. They were the euthanasia plan and historia plan, both being horrible and not a definite solution. I think with all things considered, Erwin would of hated it but knew the rumbling was the only option
for people who think of erwin as this incredibly selfish man he's made out to be, keep that closed mind and consider this: even if erwin was selfish and wanted humanity beyond the walls to die and protect the humanity he was familiar with - do you seriously think he would support eren flattening the world beyond? think about it, erwin was in a sense a vessel for his dad's theory. he saught to prove that and he did everything in his power from the moment his dad was killed to seek his avengement through that medium. should he have been chosen and seen the outside world, he would NOT want the rumbling to take place because all of the evidence, land, history, technological advancements, EVERYTHING his dad would have wanted to see and experience would be erased. it's madness to think he'd be okay with that, he'd devote the rest of his life to learning more, educating himself and coming to understand the people of this outside world, not just kille them off and flatten it all in a blind rage. that man had too much self control and awareness, he was so considerate of every factor. if he'd go mad at anything it'd be seeing his dad's theories being quite literally flattened.👆
Yea I keep hearing this and I never rly understood it. It just sounds like an edge lord fantasy to me. I think a lot of it stems from thinking that the rumbling is a strategic and rational option rather than a violent and extreme option that was made by a violent, extreme, paranoid and irrational man. Erwin himself is a strategic man, I don’t think he goes about anything in a vengeful way. I think he’d go about the situation in a similar fashion to Armin, like a chess game. Eren was never looking to play tho, he just pushed all his pieces towards the enemy and went for a final gambit straight away, mainly because he lacked a strategic mindset, was low on time and is just a violent,aggressive person. None of that applies to Erwin. I can’t imagine him saying with a straight face “yea 80% of these mfs need to go”, there’s nothing to suggest that he’d feel the need to sacrifice that much of humanity for Paradis. I think the closest to that, and the thing that may be making these ppl think that, is him saying that he sacrificed all those soldiers for his dream. But it’s a different situation; he was confessing there that he played the role of a noble commander who wanted to rid the world of titans/save humanity because it lead him to his dream. I think ppl mistake him not particularly caring about saving humanity with not caring about saving humanity at all. He’s not a sociopath. He didn’t just coldly sacrifice ppl for his benefit. He was dishonest sure, but he was filling a pre existing role that needed to be filled and would’ve been filled. It kinda didn’t matter what his end goal was or if he was honest about it or not. He’s making necessary sacrifices that would’ve been made if he truly was that person he was pretending to be or by someone else in his position if he never became commander. That’s not the same thing as Eren’s doing. I think some ppl might also argue that Erwin had a “greater good” or “us or them” mindset but I don’t think there’s anything that suggest that it’s as strong as Eren’s and also if Erwin would consider the rest of the world his enemy. I mean the police in the 1st 3 seasons were against him, did he kill all of them? He was only ever focused on killing titans; he was never trying to kill mankind or make mankind better or prioritising some groups of ppl over others. Idk why in a situation where it’s either side with Eren and let him kill the whole of humanity outside of Paradis or side with the rest of humanity and stop Eren, he’d choose to side with Eren
One thing that people need to know, Erwin is someone who can be objective about other people, but when it comes to describing himself... ...he is the most unreliable narrator of all unreliable narrators This guy believe he is a monster for sacrifing his soldiers, when in reality, scout regiments under his command has the least casualties because of his strategy. He succesfully take over the corrupt government without civilian casualties, gamble his own life, almost get hang for it and what did he do? Let himself be manipulated by that vile Zackley that he is selfish, that perhaps the government is better left untouched. He imagined pile of bodies underneath his feet, blaming him for their death, forgetting the fact that every single one of them has swore to truly dedicate their heart to humanity, not to him. He believe himself selfish for wanting the truth about their world. He totally has this skewed perception of himself. Do you believe that the guy who possess that much guilt, self-loathing, and conscience would support wiping out the entire world?
But Erwin would not try to stop the rumbling once it starts. Erwin was VERY morally flexible when making choices, it's impossible for him to choose the world over paradis when it comes to a "them vs us" scenario
With him around, Eren wouldn’t have a chance to start it and Tybur wouldn’t have a chance to declare war either. Erwin will sure sacrifice Historia and her children to keep the plan continue. His card would be economy and titan power will help him do it
The point is that erwin would have done something to prevent the situation from needing the rumbling, instead of spendint years doing nothing like the braindead survey corps people and imposter armin
EXACTOMONIOUSLY my g plus Erwin likes to gamble, siding with the Jaegerists are the guaranteed win for Eldia a true gamble is going against them, then the fate of Eldia and the rest of the world is truly a 50/50 gamble
ERWIN would never ever support the rumbling. The Yeagerists would be a small nursery club if he was alive. They base off their argument by saying that Erwin said he'd kill whoever was against them if there were humans beyond the wall. Which is under his assumption that there's only one group of people against them. Rather than the whole world. We cannot conclude that he would support the rumbling. It can be a headcanon for you but that's just not how Erwin is.
Yea I also don’t think Erwin would support it either if anything Erwin and armin are so alike even from their childhood both of them wanted to see the world outside the walls and both h their parents were killed for their views of the world outside the walls(sure we didn’t find out what happened to Armin’s parents but I doubt they made it outside the walls and were probably killed by the military police)
The scouts were always about putting the needs of humanity over their own even if it costs them everything. In the end even the warriors were better scouts than floch and the yaegerists ever could be and saying erwin would support a genocide is simply an insult to his character. He was selfish sure but even when he could have abandoned everyone to fulfill his dreams he stuck by his soldiers to do what was best for humanity.
@@stonebrix168 even after that. eren always was a rash one-track-minded childish little boy. just because he stopped yelling about freedom and fighting titans and started seeing a few more colours in his black-and-white mind doesn't mean he became intelligent.
@@stonebrix168 I love how his tragic his character turned out to be, really. The one who screamed about being free the most was the biggest slave in the end.
I am not saying Erwin would support Mass Genocide, BUT I am pretty sure he'd be okay with committing some war crimes, keeping in mind that he was okay with luring Annie to a fairly populated area, leading to a lot of innocent deaths, or sacrificing the Scouts just to see if there are people outside the walls.
Erwin sacrificed his own ppl to keep moving forward. If he found out the world was HELL BENT on eradicating paradis, there no way he wouldn't side with Eren.
Ahh okay so bro is saying Erwin would be willing to not kill but kill sometimes but wouldn’t go along with the rumbling. Just a contradiction on its own.
I actually was one of the people who said that Erwin would support the rumbling BECAUSE I LIKED Armin haha For me, the rumbling is obviously a bad thing, so I tried to justify Armin over Erwin by saying Erwin would support mass genocide. This was intially what made me see this video haha like, what? That doesn't makes sense lol Really good video, maybe I should give Erwin another chance.
I will say one part that I didn't mention. Floch did start to think about how Paradis would probably still fight each other. But that was a lil later. At the beginning he believed that the rumbling would solve all of their problems (see his conversation with Jean about not having to fight anymore for proof).
Where Erwin believed from the very beginning that the fighting was never going to stop. So once again it just goes to show that Erwin would be against them. Floch thinking about that fact later only goes to show how their is no person in the right in either the Yeagerists and the Alliance and how their is no "good guy" in this scenario like so many people pretend their are in order to poop on the alliance, blah blah blah. You get it. Just had to try and protect myself from the "Um actually" crowd lol. Hope you liked the video!
But he will probably be alot more neutral than armin. He will give amnesty to the marleyan soldier that willing to surrender and take the volunteer under his protection and give compensation for them because of the rumbling. He will also try to stop the yeagerist from doing a massacare on the island, he will did his best to keep the island stable but he probably won't team up with the anti marleyan volunteer and warrior unit to create the alliance.
But then how would Erwin defend himself against a world that wants him dead
You realize there’s a difference between internal civil conflict and having outsider enemies trying to genocide you right?
Floch was saying that Jean didn't have. Floch believed that the Jeagerists would be the ones fighting. As shown as how they instantly reformed into the Edlain Military.
Your video is utter trash.
Also Erwin had a much better understanding of human nature than Eren, so he wouldn’t be shocked when he saw how humanity outside the walls acted and he’d understand that it doesn’t make them all weak or all bad. So nothing about his mind would change, it wouldn’t be a dealbreaker and Erwin would still want to negotiate with humanity instead of killing them.
Eren actually has a perfect view of human nature, but ik not everyone's read the manga so im not gonna spoil lol.
@@stonebrix168 Eren understands perfectly, he just want's to do it because that's who he is.
@@greatdune3174 he wants to do it cause he knows all outcomes of his choices and knows its the only way
@@stonebrix168 No. They could have easily done Armin's plan, and used the extra time to negotiate peace. Eren himself said before they left for Marley that what they needed was more time. Eren just wanted to kill everyone, despite knowing it was wrong.
@@greatdune3174 say that in reality when your family was killed because of their race and because of brainwashed idiots outside of your home,obviously you don’t understand war if you think this
THANK YOU. Honestly I'm shocked at how many people didn't see how disillusioned he was with people fighting each other. I only disagree with one small point, and that's that Levi gave Armin the injection not because he believed he was the best choice, but as a selfish decision to let his friend, who was forced to be a "devil" out of necessity, with terrible guilt for the people he led to his death, finally be at peace and released from the hell he lived.
Yeah I agree looking back on it
But this analysis isnt entirely right , because the only solutions are to fight them or to bring peace, and erwin isn't who we see him as to the eldian racecucks in Marley that wanna be marleyan, or the marleyans, hes just another " island devil"
@@lolok866 eldian racecucks😂😂
I agree, but I can't see him going for the rumbling nonetheless. Erwin was incredibly disillusioned by people fighting each other and he only did what he did, sure for his curiosity, but also for "humanity". If I'm honest, I think given what we know now Erwin would finally have broke mentally. We already know he was so plagued by guilt that he was suicidal. To bring that to full on genocide against innocent people I think would have been too much for him. Especially since it's no longer just a battle against the titans.
However, if he managed to keep himself together we already know what a skilled negotiator/speaker he was. I think he would have held the scouts together and I don't believe the Yeagerists would have existed. It wouldn't have been perfect, but I feel like he would have avoided a full rumbling at all costs. He wouldn't have been above threatening it, but actually doing it? At the end of the day nobody will 100% know, but I just don't see it :/
I honestly think it’s both lol that he respects Erwin’s wish to retire as a devil and to rest peacefully, and then to entrust his ideals to Armin.
@@anakin-is-panakin Its both. Levi outright spells he made the conscious choice of choosing Armin fully knowing he would have to step into Armins role. The says that in chapter 136
very well made video. i’m sick of people reducing his character to “selfish and cold” when it’s so obviously not true
A person trying to kill to stay alive isn’t selfish or cold, unlike Reiner or anyone outside of paradis
@user-tg9gt6bk9u Reiner did need to kill to survive tho??Wtf was he supposed to do?He was a warrior and a product of his mother's revenge plan that failed anyway
One of Erwin's dreams, the one from his childhood was the idea and question if people lived outside of the wall. I find it hard to believe that he would choose to destroy all of humanity beyond the wall, because even in his last moment his mind went back to the idea of what if there are people outside of the wall.
We don't exactly know how erwin would be like post basement twist. All of his character motivations, his sacrifice plays were all to just know the truth and see of his or his father's theory was correct. His character motivations stop after that which is why I feel isayama decided to let erwin die there.
Going to the outside world was always armin & erens dream.
No Armin's own and only dream is to go and see the fucking sea no more than this no humans nor anything else that matters or even were more important than the fucking sea.
That is the point of theorizing, obviously you cannot definitively state whether or not Erwin would support the Rumbling but we can look at his past actions and motivations to hypothesize what he would have done.
@@deprived3958 You're talking to someone who has no imagination, it seems.
this is an amazing analysis, not just obvious points about erwin’s character but also lots of stuff from earlier arcs people never bring up and all the connections between the uprising and the rumbling. it’s like people only focus on the mountain of corpses and not what made us love erwin: his selflessness and devotion to saving humanity in all of his best moments
plus the music swelling when you show erwin’s final charge was incredible
Thank you! I'm happy you liked that part too, cause even I'm surprised at how well it turned out lmao. But yeah I'm surprised no one else brought up the connection between the Uprising and the Rumbling! I never noticed it myself till my recent reread tho so I can't talk too much I guess haha
10:08 i literally got shivers. This is exactly what I thought about Erwin in his final moments. So many expeditions done most of them for his dream but this last one was for HUMANITY. He's being selfless at this part he gave up his dream he spent his ENTIRE LIFE working on even if its so close to reality tangible even. Yet he gave that up for humanity.
I think what's important to note is that most of the survey corps had goals that were about discovering the world outside the walls, apart from eren, and then floch and the newer recruits, who were focused on killing all their enemies and achieving victory. The rumbling is destroying that outside world that they had dreamed of, including Erwin, so I don't see how he would ever support it.
Erwin didn’t dream of the outside world. He dreamt of knowing the truth, that’s all he cared about.
@@NotoriousMinion Nah. His life goal is to prove his father's theory which is human are still living outside the walls. He said that to Pixis himself
@@oliverjames8580 no different than what I just said lmfao 🤣
@@oliverjames8580 knowing the truth to prove his fathers theory right…
The majority of people who claim that Erwin would have been in favor of the full-scale rumbling, are the same people that support the rumbling themselves. I think it’s mostly because nearly all fans agree that Erwin was the greatest character with the most fervently held principles in AOT. And as such, if they can convince themselves that the the most principled character would be in favor of the genocide of like 99% of humanity, they themselves can more easily justify it.
yup, people nowadays always force to think themself they were right without ay logic or common sense whatsoever
Then how would he defend paradise cause negotiations are out the window
@@t-ro6176 it's possible, like kidnapping Willy Tybur and make him side with them. Also they could atleast do what the og plan to make a small scale rumbling to destroy all military bases around the world so Paradis would have enough time.
@@vertex6586 Enough time to do what? Continue to fall behind? The 50 year plan was a scam that Zeke came up with to trick Paradis into letting him sterilize all Eldians.
@@vertex6586lmao kidnapping Tybur? Yeah like that’s gonna stop THE WHOLE WORLD from wanting to commit genocide lmao. Also a small scale rumbling? They explicitly said that within a few years titan power would be useless. It was only a matter of time before genocide of all Eldians.
I personally think that if Erwin had been alive, the situation would not have come to a point where the Rumbling would be necessary. I think he would have a better hold of the politics involved with opening up Paradis to the wider world.
Erwin wouldn't not let the scouts get torn in fact he would've more then likely kept eren in check . Because erwin was the one people were loyal to . Hange was erwins 2nd in command next to Levi so her beliefs are more then likely the same as erwins .
According to that assumption Armin would supported the rumbling
The thing about Erwin that people forget is how he gambles. It's basically the Trolley problem. He gets the smaller number of people killed to save to larger number of people, or for a larger number of people that would be saved in the future due to that decision.
Good pionts!
I DO want to point out there's a very, VERY, tiny (and mostly silent) section of fandom who believe there's no way to know whether Erwin would support the Rumbling or not. And they believe NO ONE is an heir to Erwin's legacy: Not Floch, Not Armin, Not Hange, Not Levi, and NOT Eren. No one. They wouldn't believe any of them have any similarities with Erwin either.
I don't agree with this, but thought it fair to let it be known of their existence and that there more than two sides to this.
THANK U all I hear is people saying he would but I always completely disagreed. Man I wish isayama would tell us honestly
Yeah I'd love to get that clarification too lol
I think isayama would want us to interpret it ourselves and it makes for a good discussion until it's overly toxic😀
Isayama told us. With his manga. It is nothing stated and implied through Erwin always appearing as some sort of force ghosts, giving approval to the scouts actions. It could not be more spelled out
This is just a subjective opinion it not facts whatsoever
He did say it himself through manga. That was Erwin's welcome to Hange and Shadis in the afterlife.
things would be definitely be better if erwin was alive,he doesn't necessarily have to support the rumbling,would paradis be even divide into two factions? Erwin can definitely hold them together for a common goal
This i agree on.
Yes
I like your argument but I still might have to disagree. His whole life dream was like you said finding out what was in the basement. After doing that, his new motivation would be preserving the life inside at all cost. Like stated, he stands upon his dead comrades bodies. This was all built on their sacrifice. Now I’m not saying he’d go straight to killing, but I also believe the infighting wouldn’t have been as bad. I don’t think he would’ve fell for Zeke wine plan. But if things still got to the point where everyone gathered together to kill them, he would have to “become the devil “ and do what’s necessary in order to preserve humanity in the wall, as that was built on his comrades sacrifice.
Erwin's life goal was to know if his father was right. He wanted to know about the outside world too. He focused on the basement because he thought the answers to his questions were there. After learning about the outside world it is not unfair to say he would agree with Hange to go see it. I think however he may have been more proactive overall. He may have accepted help from Hizumi for exchange of gas. It could also be argued that if Erwin hadn't died the Yaegerist might not even exist.
@@melodicomen777 agreed
He will fight and not negotiate as much as Armin but mass genocide would never come across his head. Eren is just a hot-headed with a mindset of a school mass shooter. That’s all
Armin is my favorite character of the entire series and while it hurt to see Erwin miss out on his dream he also deserved to rest after so much death. I'm not sure he'd have taken being revived over Armin as well as some think. He'd have weathered the storm sure, but it would have been so much guilt.
It was such a treat to watch Armin over one his insecurities and really come into his own. You could actually see some of that Erwin passion in him at the end. Overall I loved the series from start to finish.
I know this sounds weird but ur videos are really helping me relieve some stress right now cuz I got final exams coming up in june and Im definetly not ready, but these vids kinda put me in my own space for a while where I really just get to reflect on my favourite shows.
Also this is one of my favourite vids from you keep up the good work and I can’t wait till the updated aot final chapter thoughts
MY HEART! AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH! THANK YOU! GOOD LUCK WITH YOUR FINALS! YOU GOT THIS! YOU'VE BELIEVED IN ME ALL THIS TIME, SO I BELIEVE IN YOU!
@@sailorclout THANK YOU SO MUCH BRO!!!
Erwin could stop the meteorite by just looking at it
he could reassure some countries that Eren is not a threat as long as they work with them and unite them against Marley. My paradise an industrial country with modern weapons with the help of the Hisuru plan(or even maybe other new allies)
He could have come up with such a brilliant plan that could establish peace for generations without a massive massacre
That's what I think
I will admitted that I do not like Armin for seeking peace with Marley despite how much unlikely it is either. But I have always been neutral about whether or not Erwin will support the Rumbling. But I do still believed that had Erwin lived, he will come up with a better plan than Armin and Hange. Their plan is basically just hoping that Marley will listened to what they have to say while also failing to realize that Marley is nothing but a bully. And the only way the bully will listened is to use the aggressive negotiation like pointing a gun at the head to force the bully to comply. This is what Erwin will realized. Well, Eren did realize this as well and even tell Armin about this at one point but he seemed to not think much about it. Plus, Eren was too busy dealing with the fragments of reality he received after he kissed Historia's hand at the ceremony. But back to the point, Erwin will see the Rumbling as the last resort but also knowing that peaceful negotiation with Marley is not possible either. So what will he do? War is the only solution. But what about Yelena said about Marleyan military can deployed like million troops? Well, I take that with a grain of salt and I think Erwin will do the same, especially after he heard how much of praises Yelena is given to Zeke, the one who caused a lot of destruction to his home. But how can Paradis waged a war against Marley and win? This is where my plan, which I called the Heraclius Plan, entered the picture. This plan is named as such because it was inspired by how Emperor Heraclius forced Shah Khosrow II to accept peace on his own terms by launching military campaign into the Iranian heartland and cause damages as much as possible. In order to get the better picture of this plan, I suggested that you go watch a video about the last Roman-Persian War of 602-628 in order to at least roughly get the idea behind this plan. Of course, I wished I can tell you about this plan in details. But I cannot do that because I tried that before a few times but CZcams does not allowed me. But back to this plan, the dedicing factors depended on timing and execution because it will worked to its fullest potential only when Paradis decided to attack Marley when Marley was preoccupied with the war against the Mid-East Allied Forces. By capturing ports such as Karifa and Liberio and put them under occupations, Paradis troops can launched devastating raids against Marley, destroy supply lines, ravage the countrysides, demolishing key cities that housing the factories that produce foods and weapons for the Marleyan military. And when the news of these attacks reached the troops on the Mid-Eastern front, Zeke will most likely volunteered to come back to deal with them. But when he did arrive, Zeke instead defected and assist Paradis' troops in their rampaging campaign in order to gain Eren's trust. Eventually, wars on two fronts and the secession crisis in Onyankopon's homeland will forced Marley to negotiate with its enemies when the Tybur family is being forced to choose between international humiliation and economic collapse and accept peace on their terms. After the war ended, Marley will not be able to wage a war against anyone for a while due to the need of economic recovery.
Armins plan was not to just wait for Marley to eliminate eldia. Iirc he supported the 50 year plan and a partial rumbling to take out any major military targets so that Paradis would be competitive militaristically and to slow down the advancement of technology, keeping the threat of titans as good enough to serve as leverage for peace talks
People just think of Armin being very passive in s4 becahse he was left scrambling because Eren kept throwing curve balls
@@horizontalnoodlelmao4286 Instead of supporting the 50-Year Plan, I think join the Marley Mid-East War will be the better solution. Sure, we did see the Mid-Eastern troops being racists to Falco and Porco. But thats just it. Plus, they are not the ones in charge. It's the Beys of the Mid-East Eyalets who are in charge of politics and diplomacy. So when they realized that war was beginning to not go well for them and that Paradis approached them with an offer to help, why refused at all? And if they did win, this will mean a lot for Paradis.
First thing first, Paradis' image will be shifted positively because they defeated an agggresive expansionist that is Marley in a war.
Two, the Mid-East Eyalets will most likely be unified under the single Sultan and the newly-formed Sultanate will most likely become Paradis' main defender for the sake of its own interests.
Three, Paradis will gained a seat on the international stage, thus making Marley hated Paradis even more. However, they cannot do anything about it since they needed to prioritize the economic recovery of their country first. Plus, they lost more than half of the navy in the war against the Mid-East Eyalets.
Four, Marley might not only fell into revanchism but also in a civil war sparked by those who wanted to equalize the Eldians and the other ethnic groups in Marley.
But of course, these will come with costs of Marley hating Paradis even more like I said before and Hizuru ended up being diplomatically isolated for playing both sides.
@horizontalnoodlelmao4286 The 50 year plan sucked. Starting the rumbling at any point makes Paradis a target for the world, you can't halfass a genocide. There was no other option that was presented. It was either fight back or die. Peace talks weren't doing shit.
Please don’t take this as a backhanded compliment, it’s meant as a regular one: I looked through your channel and given that it seems like you have only been doing videos for about a year, and your sub count is still in the early stages of growth, I am extremely impressed with the level of thought, time, effort and overall interest/passion of this video as well as some of the others I’ve skimmed through. You will definitely go far if you keep providing this quality of content.
Thank you! That means a lot to me, ya know?
I Agree most of what you had said but the reason i hate armin is because he almost didn't do anything during the event that led to rumbling. Being one of that was chosen instead of erwin. Erwin being alive would make this more you could say more interesting in a story than what it is now. And maybe eren making the decision to do the rumbling wouldn't have come to fruition.
I mean, let's look at what happened between the Marley attack & the rumbling, Armin was forced to play catch-up due to an unfair advantage. Plus, the story needed the rumbling to happen so, Armin would have to be restricted from doing anything to stop it somehow like, not being able to transform because his friends are next to him, Eren going rogue, Eren gaslighting him, etc.
Eren, having future knowledge, was always ahead of everyone, forcing them into a reactionary role, to try & catch-up to him. Getting mad at Armin because he couldn't outplay someone who can see the future is unfair because nobody else could do it either. It just feels like you're treating Armin as the exception here when there are other characters with intelligence comparable to his own.
If we look at the stuff before Marley, he & Hange cooked up the soft rumbling plan as a last resort & were willing to try as many diplomatic approaches as possible to protect Paradis & help it co-exist with the world.
Regardless, Armin was doing something. It's only until after Marley that he & everyone else were forced into a reactionary role (again) due to Eren's future memories.
Erwin was as smart as Armin, but even he can't outplay future knowledge. He would've been forced into the reactionary role just like Hange, Armin & everyone else. In fact, Erwin has been forced into playing catch-up in the past when fighting the warriors.
Point is,
Did Armin do nothing? No.
Was he forced to play catch-up? Yes. And not only did he catch-up, he also surpassed Eren in the end.
why doesn’t this have more views? Very well researched, edited, and voiced!!!
Thanks for this, I definitely 100% agree with you that Erwin would never EVER be a Jagerist. I respect that man a lot and I know he cares about people…constant war and death can make you disillusioned and numb but I feel he cares more deeply about his comrades than most people think. If he was truly selfish, he’d prioritise his goal over sacrificing himself as you said.
With Eren…I am really unsure what to think about him, he definitely has absolutely horrendous anger issues since he was a kid and he has been selfish a lot of the time, but he’s also shown he cares and feels remorse…I think he’s only doing this because it’s the only way to save his friends. But then how he manipulated his Father was disgusting…honestly I’m unsure if he does actually care for Mikasa and Armin…was he lying to them so that they’d hate him and kill him so he can be the scapegoat to peace between nations or are those his true feelings?Eren is really confusing to me…but there is no way Erwin would partake in a genocide, no matter the reason. Also no idea why people hate Armin, he’s a great guy.
long story short: "Erwin would not support Rumbling but if Eren started the Rumbling, he wouldn't turn the scout into Naruto squad and start going after Eren to stop the rumbling either because he is a logical man and not Naruto Uzumaki.
I've always thought that if Erwin Smith was alive, he'd try to negotiate Idk some badass mind games probably that he's so good at. Something that neither Armin or Hange wouldn't be able to think of but something only he'd be able to pull off bc idk experience in being a leader and a good chess player at that? (Aot2 game)
I think it all comes down to whether Erwin would have ventured out into the outside world or stayed in Paradis. All the characters besides Eren who made that trip and actually experienced humanity outside Paradis were not ok with the rumbling, whereas others such as Floch who don't see the outside world until they are at war with them do not have any emotional connection with those living on the outside.
I know that this also comes down to their personalities, and that Floch and many Yeagerists are simply more cold hearted, but we see the warriors do basically the same thing to Paradis that the Yeagerists are doing to the world and it's not until they develop deeper connections that they truly start to empathize with those who live there. I believe the same to be for most characters. I mean even Armin was willing to kill at least a few tens of thousands of innocents to save his friends at Liberio even after experiencing the outside world and overall being one of the most empathetic characters in the series.
This is also seen in characters such as Daz and Samuel. We don't know nearly as much about them as the main characters but we know they are not cold hearted people, theyre just scared. The only difference between them and Armin or Connie is that they are unable to empathize with faceless 'enemies' that they know near nothing about. Sorry this kinda turned into a Yeagerist apologist rant, but I really do believe that the many of the Yeagerists are simply more morally correct than Erwin, who convinced teenagers to kill themselves without even considering any other option.
There wasn't much of anther option for Erwin to make at Shiganshina though :( he couldn't bring them over the wall the beast titan would have just killed them. They couldn't stay there because they'd still get killed. If they were going to die anyway might as well die fighting for victory than hiding. So it's a bit unfair to say that he just sacrificed teens in that moment. :< the new recruits had no odm gear. No weapons. No cannons. Nothing. Just flares and horses.
They got cornered and he did the only plan that seemed logical to him for a better outcome for everyone unfortunately that plan was to be a distraction.
@@melodicomen777 There were plenty of maneuvering techniques that they normally use to outflank the titans, charging straight towards them was tactically and morally an awful move on Erwin's part. There was also the fact that they came underprepared to Shiganshina in the first place, which wasn't fully Erwin's fault, but the scout leaders and regiment commanders such as Erwin, Hange, and Levi get way too much credit when in reality they made plenty of horrible decisions. Even Magath placed more value on his warrior's lives than many of the scout leaders did on their regiments.
@@stonebrix168 nah there was nothing they could do. The accuracy of the beast titan would’ve killed most of the scouts. Plus they had smaller titans plus the cart titan. He did the best idea since Levi could sneak behind while the beast titan was distracted and kill them. If they have maneuvered, the beast would’ve either sent his titans after them which would’ve led to him noticing Levi, or him noticing Levi as he looks in a direction other than straight.
I see what you're trying to say, but I don't think the people supporting mass genocide are morally better than anybody lol
@@sailorclout I truly believe that the morality of the Yeagerists lies with one unanswered (as far as I know I havent dug that deep) detail- whether or not the bulk of them are aware of the nature of the founder's powers, such as whether Eren can control how many wall titans are summoned. We know that Floch knows (which is why I think we can all agree that he's not quite the moral stalwart), we also know that the alliance and most likely the military government know, but it may be dismissed by some as allied propaganda. This is why I think that the lower ranking Yeagerists don't exactly know what they are truly supporting, as they may believe that there's simply no other way to save paradis
Really enjoyed this video, glad I watched it
This point really doesn't matter that much because Erwin more likely could have come up with a solution that wouldn't make Eren resort to the rumbling in the first place. We saw Eren begging Hange for a better solution and she couldn't Armin couldn't either and wasn't in the position to do so anyway since he wasn't the scouts leader or leader of paradis. I 100% feel Erwin would have had better solutions and would have been closer to a diplomatic solution, he had the charisma, the willingness to dirty his hands, and the brains and charisma is arguably the most important aspect in getting the support of others that Armin lacked
damn right I don't like flop Armin, Erwin should have gotten the injection even if he didn't support the rumbling he would still keep everything in place, banger video btw.
6:07 I literally forgot about that too Erwin literally says he wants to overthrow the government without spilling blood
Nice vid! Honestly, I agree
The point of Erwin taking risks in the first place was to find out if his dad's theory was right--- that there is still more outside the walls, unexplored territory, new discoveries to be made
I mean, his last thoughts before death was answering his dad's question!
Maybe not for his character, but objectively speaking the choice between Armin and Erwin is a a reflection of the choice for or against Eren. Erwin is also objectively an excceptionally selfish person, and even admitted multiple times, not just to Levi but to his own superiors, that he would sacrifce humanity just for his dream. He's sacrificed so many people that the only way for him to cope with his atroccities is to keep Eren alive no matter the cost to the outside world. Erwin is also a gambler, he was banking on the gamble he'd live and that he couldn't see the truth.
Also, he DID know of the outside world, he knew that there was at least one empire outside of the walls working with titans in order to kill everyone on Paradis.
Erwin wouldn't want to do the Rumbling, but Erwin also would have acted very quickly, the idea of a full scale rumbling wouldn't even cross their minds. He'd have understood the situation a lot better than Hange did. Also, Erwin purposly drew soldiers from other regiments in order to sacrifice them for his own gains without their consent. He also sacrified hundreds of innocent civilians to capture Annie. The bloodless coup was Erwin manipulating Pyxis and trying to gain popular support, and not a representation of his actions at all.
Also, objectively speaking, Eren's plan is one that would work if he succeeded. It's even confirmed in the manga itself, but Erwin would have undoubtedly have found a different way that works with Eren and his goals.
Erwin's entire worldview would be traumatically and dramatically changed because he has 13 years left to live, he doesn't have time, and I believe that's a MASSIVE point to give to Erwin supporting Eren and the rumbling or at least a partial rumbling. Also, him dying for mankind is one of his gambles and another selfish action done by itself. He fully believed people existed outside the wall, he's believed that since a kid. To him it is reality even if he doens't fully understand that. It's essentialy a religious zeal he has, so when the outside world was wanting Eldia dead would be a massive shock that would make him a prime subject for Eren manipulating Erwin, at least temporarlity. Eren is a religious core to Erwin. Erwin would support a partial rumbling no question, but he'd fill the same roll Armin did after seeing Eren sent ALL of the titans out. Erwin would have probably acted slower after finding this, and Levi would probably force him back on track if he's not dead. More of humanity would be dead outside the walls, Armin managed to save 20%, I imagine Erwin would have only been able to save maybe 10%, maybe even less outside of Paradis.
I also agree that a lot of people just hate Armin and instantly assume the inverse would happen if Erwin was chosen. The fact is, the Rumbling will happen regardless. It's only a question of how much of the outside will be still left, and I believe that Erwin would save less people than Armin did, and that he may even intitially support it, and seek to understand what Eren's true objective is. One he learns for certain that Eren will genocide all of mankind outside the walls he'll likely crack, and cost valuable time.
That said, people don't seem to care at all about how important of a role Mikasa will share in this.
We've just assumed she'd do nothing, but with the loss of Armin, I genuinly believe that Mikasa would have told Eren she loves him and to run away with her, and that the rumbling would never happen, that they'd live his remaining years out. The reason Armin was chosen, was because Eren wanted to do the rumbling.
Very good video. Thanks for being so thorough. Erwin was an incredible character who always thought about saving the most people with as few deaths as possible. I also agree he would support a small-scale rumbling just like Armin. Personally i think Isayama had to kill Erwin off otherwise the plot would be too imbalanced and boring. Erwin would keep things "stable" but since Armin is still young and learning he couldn't know how to resolve things like how Erwin would, and the plot stays "exciting" as it sets up an epic anti-hero.
Absolutely love how you articulated and structured your points, you deserve more way more eyes on you.
Thank ya!
yeah people say "all he does is try to talk things out" as if that's not the ideal way to handle things???
I know right? Like that was the idea that marco came up with when he died. In fact is that not like the whole point? Like i always seen aot as anti war and anti violence
Peace was never an option in aot. Eldians oppressed and made Marley suffer for 2,000 years, all their hatred grew toward the island for 100 years, Eren wiped out most of the world's population, destroyed their homes and resources and family members, and you think they will buy Armin's story? Don't believe me? Oh that's fine just wait until the extra pages get animated and see for yourself.
Erwin was sacrificing people who voluntarily gave their lives to him. Different than a genocide lol
People love coping he wouldn't of, we all know he is just as big of a devil like Eren is.
It's here!
immediate agreement with the title.
For some reason, the sequence starting at 10:01 gets me unbelievably hyped.
Bro i need to let this out. Im so fuckin pissed at this youtube algorithm. How the fuck are you still at 3k subs with this type pf QUALITY content i just dont get it. I hope the numbers don't discourage you. Please give it your best till the end. I just know that you deeply feel the characters you analyze and thats what makes your videos so entertaining i hope people will catch on sooner rather later.
Ayyyy much appreciated man! Imma stick with it, absolutely! Our audience will keep on growing until we get up there with the big boys no doubt.
Loved this. So much personality. Great points. Subscribed.
I did also. Hange is best girl 😁
Much love!
💯💯💯💯
About the idea that the Alliance are "anti-Paradis". Here's a scene from the manga that could well disprove that. SPOILERS. CHAPTER 139 (THE FINAL CHAPTER)
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Don't forget that the Alliance's final scene in the manga is them sailing to Paradis to conduct peace talks. Annie and Pieck point out how the Jägerists could kill them all, since they're considered enemies and traitors. Jean and Connie's families live in Historia's protective custody so the Jägerists don't kill them. But they still move forward with the hope of establishing peace...with Paradis! I don't think they're anti-Paradis. Too idealistic? Maybe. But not anti-Paradis.
They damned their own people with no plan, their intentions of "we'll figure it out" are pretty irrelevant
@@randomusername3873 oh yeah so they should've killed innocent people right?
@@INCAnitysy Can i say yes ? and that's the only remaining right option since Armin and the other alliance members didn't done anything real in those four years Timeskip before the great Marleyean and outside world invasion
don't overthink it, they are traitors
Lol if Erwin will not agree with the rumbling them he wouldn't agree with the clown alliance either 🤡😂😂😂😂 he was a Chad
My question is what would he have done to defend the outside world then, cause eren did the rumbling cause there was no other alternatives. Erwin literally said eliminate enemy threats, so why would he join the enemy to destroy the island his soldiers died protecting? If he was to join the alliance and kill and betrayed the island he would’ve betrayed everything he said in his final charge.
I think you just want him not to defend it cause then he would be against the alliance, and Erwin isn’t foolish enough to trust people who were genociding the island to help him.
LOL. There are tonnes of choices to help Paradis survive 😂 The only reason Eren did the rumbling so that Historia didn’t have to shorten her life by inheriting the Beast titan. The peace talk never work because Armin and Hange didn’t have the mindset and visionary of Erwin. If Erwin was still around, Tybur wouldn’t have had the opportunity to declare the war. Erwin would have definitely used Rumbling on a small scale to crush the world military and any related infrastructures.
Besides, using titan power to affect the economy is the most potential solution. In real world, the reason that there are many more countries hesitate to start wars is because of the economic effects. They don’t want to start a thing that could destroy everything they built for decades in just a blink of eye.
Eren didn’t have the mindset and visionary of a true leader and yeagerists keep saying that mass genocide is the only option 😂
@@oliverjames8580 Tons of choices like what? What was presented in the story?
@@GregSmithIII You didn't read my comment?
@@GregSmithIII US has the nuclear just like rumbling. Did they drop nuke on all Japan territory or just 2 biggest industrial cities? Yeagerists don't know a shit about politics and history. All they know are mass massacre and how rizz is main character. What a waste when this masterpiece has to be read by these brainless morons
I mostly agree with this video, just one nit-pick: up until the basement reveal, everyone on Paradis believed they were the last of humanity, which is what Erwin fought for to protect and to prosper. Having learned that humanity is NOT on the brink of extinction, and that there are billions of other humans existing in the outside world, it might change Erwin's outlook on humanity (given the hatred of his people), but not enough to where he'd support omnicide. In order to protect the people of Paradis, he'd try to take the most diplomatic approach while spilling bloodshed where absolutely necessary.
It's been a while since I read the manga tbh. But what's the most diplomatic approach to 95% of the world seeing your people as litteral inhuman demons (With reason since yk, can turn into titans) ?
AND the governments of these people are just eyeing Paradis island as a sweet sweet underdevelopped ressource piñata full of fancy gas, oil... Not only ripe for the taking but 100% justifiable to their people since yk *They have/are weapons of mass destruction* ?
Armin is more useless than sakura
Armin and Sakura both saved lives what?
FINALLY! I have been saying this for so long! Erwin could've stopped it one way or another, choosing Armin was a mistake. Erwin would have done everything *humanly* possible to establish peace with the rest of the world. He could have dome it. Erwin is GOAT. Erwin always wanted to know the truth regardless of what it is and wanted to rid the threat of Titans to humanity, Eren and his rumbling was the threat he fought against his whole life despite it being different from his original perspective. As Hange said "we're back to our original mission".
Yes You are right
Now I am gonna just put the link to this video whenever people mention Erwin siding with Rumbling cause I really agree with this video
Choosing Armin was the start of the downfall of the series
Thank you for this video I feel good some one sees Armin and Erwin are one in the same
One thing I never see anybody bring up is how in Shiganshina, Armin wasn't just chosen by Levi. When he lifted Erwin's arm to give him the injection, ERWIN HIMSELF threw his arm up and refused to let Armin die. somehow I never see anyone on either side bring this up.
that's Because Erwin was just memorizing the moment when he raised his arm up to Question his teacher's theory (his father) in the class when Erwin was still a child and not to refuse to let Armin die.
I can understand why you would think that it's well explained but for the reason that erwin sent himself and others to their deaths to let levi have a chance at killing the beast titan. Would in my opinion make him at least side with erens ideals. Besides he was the one who stood up for Erens titans back when everyone wanted to kill him. He wants his goals of the outside and to protect his people.
THANK YOU
Great video! Some excellent points!
Thanks!
Yes, the dude who was selfish to sacrifice many innocent lives to reach the basement, would agree to Eldia to die out. Cope more!
If this is seriously your argument, I can tell you didn't watch the video at all LOL
Bold of you to assume Erwin would have ever left Eren’s basement
You had me till the first half 100%, still you started saying he is like Armin, don't disgrace him like that ! Armin could never be even 2% as far-sighted as Erwin, period. Armin has proved times and times again that yes he might be able to get them out of the situations currently, but never has been able to predict, plan and think outside the box like his enemies and thus the failures over and over again.
Armin is too irrational and doesn't think straight. Of course, he is nothing like Erwin. Like if Erwin had the colossal titan he wouldn't sacrifice himself for an enemy child soldier. And what did Armin even do in the final season: Nothing, no plans, no solutions. And people think this idiot comes close to Erwin. Yeah, not in a million years.
Hange is key. Chosen by Erwin as his successor, I think they see the world in very similar ways.
Thank you very much for this video. 🙏🏽
Thank YOU for watching it!
8:03
maybe because that majority wants to destroy his homeland dah :/
A lot of point I disagree.... Erwin already knew the real enemy are humans... When asked eren who is the enemy
You've built a strawman to defeat the argument. I agree it's stupid to think Erwin would become a Jeagerist. They were brutal, xenophobic and all kinds of messed up and Erwin would never tolerate that. But he WOULD support Eren none the less. And that's because Eren, unlike the Jeagerists has seen and experienced the outside world. He heard even the most pro-Eldian political group openly supporting genocide of Eldians within the walls. He heard Willy proclaim a global, genocidal war on Paradis and representatives of all major nations cheering in tears. He saw first hand that the world has been building up hatred for Eldians for thousands of years, and came to detest them so much, they were all happy to join hands with Marley, basically the Nazis of the AoT universe, just to murder them all. He went through all of the peaceful options with all the geniuses he could find, like Zeke and Armin, saw that all of them included Eldians being AT BEST given a little bit more time, but eventually being erased from existance just the same. You are misquoting Erwin over and over when you're trying to show how he chose humanity over himself. Erwin fought to save HIS PEOPLE. "Humanity" in the walls. Just like Eren. The innocent, ignorant people who had their memories stolen and were going to be slowly fed to titans before they inevitably go extinct. People who only wantedtbeir freedom back. This racist, genocidal humanity that lives outside the walls, Erwin never fought for, or cared about. Armin only chose the outside world over the Eldians because the outside world WAS HIS DREAM. His obsession. And in that Erwin and Armin were never the same. That was the whole point of Levi's choice. Not the fact that Armin and Erwin are alike. But that they are fundamentally different in the end. In the end, Erwin cared for humanity in the walls more than anything, while Armin always cared for the outside world more than anything. It doesn't take a genius to know how each of them would see the Rumbling. Armin's plan of "test rumbling" included sacrifising Historia and her children to make them into anither royal family that is cannibalizing each other to hold on to the power. The same royal family Erwin helped to overthrow. It included Eldians accepting their own inevitable demise as titans were becoming obsolete as war weapons by the second. The same Eldians for whom Erwin sacrifised everything to protect. He would NEVER go along with Armin's plan. The very idea is silly.
Even so. Eren would destroy the world because the raid in Liberio would be a huge succes since Erwin wouldn't just transform but also help Eren killing every soldier(Including Gabi). With Eren having a supreme form of the Founding Titan the World would be done for.
Im not gonna trust anyone who says are-min 😭💀
It's kinda weird to hear Flock call himself by his name on his own video
Video idea: why I’m not a yeagerist
I'll probably touch on that when I make my last AOT video or something.
@@sailorclout I see hopefully we can have a collab vid
Reasons im not a yeagerist
Reason number 1. Im not a nazi
I understand Erwin wouldn’t be okay with the rumbling, the problem everyone forgets is that the other choices they were left with were horrible. They were the euthanasia plan and historia plan, both being horrible and not a definite solution. I think with all things considered, Erwin would of hated it but knew the rumbling was the only option
i cant figure out how the title makes sense at all, what does Erwins support of a controversial solution have to do with Armin??
10:10 he asks LEVI to make decision for him
it was levi choice not erwin choice :)
for people who think of erwin as this incredibly selfish man he's made out to be, keep that closed mind and consider this: even if erwin was selfish and wanted humanity beyond the walls to die and protect the humanity he was familiar with - do you seriously think he would support eren flattening the world beyond? think about it, erwin was in a sense a vessel for his dad's theory. he saught to prove that and he did everything in his power from the moment his dad was killed to seek his avengement through that medium. should he have been chosen and seen the outside world, he would NOT want the rumbling to take place because all of the evidence, land, history, technological advancements, EVERYTHING his dad would have wanted to see and experience would be erased. it's madness to think he'd be okay with that, he'd devote the rest of his life to learning more, educating himself and coming to understand the people of this outside world, not just kille them off and flatten it all in a blind rage. that man had too much self control and awareness, he was so considerate of every factor. if he'd go mad at anything it'd be seeing his dad's theories being quite literally flattened.👆
Erwin is the reverse Eren. Or Eren is reverse Erwin.
Yea I keep hearing this and I never rly understood it. It just sounds like an edge lord fantasy to me. I think a lot of it stems from thinking that the rumbling is a strategic and rational option rather than a violent and extreme option that was made by a violent, extreme, paranoid and irrational man. Erwin himself is a strategic man, I don’t think he goes about anything in a vengeful way. I think he’d go about the situation in a similar fashion to Armin, like a chess game. Eren was never looking to play tho, he just pushed all his pieces towards the enemy and went for a final gambit straight away, mainly because he lacked a strategic mindset, was low on time and is just a violent,aggressive person. None of that applies to Erwin. I can’t imagine him saying with a straight face “yea 80% of these mfs need to go”, there’s nothing to suggest that he’d feel the need to sacrifice that much of humanity for Paradis. I think the closest to that, and the thing that may be making these ppl think that, is him saying that he sacrificed all those soldiers for his dream. But it’s a different situation; he was confessing there that he played the role of a noble commander who wanted to rid the world of titans/save humanity because it lead him to his dream. I think ppl mistake him not particularly caring about saving humanity with not caring about saving humanity at all. He’s not a sociopath. He didn’t just coldly sacrifice ppl for his benefit. He was dishonest sure, but he was filling a pre existing role that needed to be filled and would’ve been filled. It kinda didn’t matter what his end goal was or if he was honest about it or not. He’s making necessary sacrifices that would’ve been made if he truly was that person he was pretending to be or by someone else in his position if he never became commander. That’s not the same thing as Eren’s doing.
I think some ppl might also argue that Erwin had a “greater good” or “us or them” mindset but I don’t think there’s anything that suggest that it’s as strong as Eren’s and also if Erwin would consider the rest of the world his enemy. I mean the police in the 1st 3 seasons were against him, did he kill all of them? He was only ever focused on killing titans; he was never trying to kill mankind or make mankind better or prioritising some groups of ppl over others. Idk why in a situation where it’s either side with Eren and let him kill the whole of humanity outside of Paradis or side with the rest of humanity and stop Eren, he’d choose to side with Eren
Had no idea about this argument, but it’s a interesting video.
One thing that people need to know, Erwin is someone who can be objective about other people, but when it comes to describing himself...
...he is the most unreliable narrator of all unreliable narrators
This guy believe he is a monster for sacrifing his soldiers, when in reality, scout regiments under his command has the least casualties because of his strategy. He succesfully take over the corrupt government without civilian casualties, gamble his own life, almost get hang for it and what did he do? Let himself be manipulated by that vile Zackley that he is selfish, that perhaps the government is better left untouched. He imagined pile of bodies underneath his feet, blaming him for their death, forgetting the fact that every single one of them has swore to truly dedicate their heart to humanity, not to him. He believe himself selfish for wanting the truth about their world. He totally has this skewed perception of himself.
Do you believe that the guy who possess that much guilt, self-loathing, and conscience would support wiping out the entire world?
But Erwin would not try to stop the rumbling once it starts. Erwin was VERY morally flexible when making choices, it's impossible for him to choose the world over paradis when it comes to a "them vs us" scenario
With him around, Eren wouldn’t have a chance to start it and Tybur wouldn’t have a chance to declare war either. Erwin will sure sacrifice Historia and her children to keep the plan continue. His card would be economy and titan power will help him do it
Somepeople not only don't have Armin as their favorite character... but actually dislike/hate him??? What the fuck he's the best!
The point is that erwin would have done something to prevent the situation from needing the rumbling, instead of spendint years doing nothing like the braindead survey corps people and imposter armin
Its funny i love both erwin and armin for like pretty similar reasons
EXACTOMONIOUSLY my g
plus Erwin likes to gamble,
siding with the Jaegerists are the guaranteed win for Eldia
a true gamble is going against them, then the fate of Eldia and the rest of the world is truly a 50/50 gamble
commander erwin was the right choice not armin
If Erwin knew who eren would become Erwin would have HATED eren.
ERWIN would never ever support the rumbling. The Yeagerists would be a small nursery club if he was alive.
They base off their argument by saying that Erwin said he'd kill whoever was against them if there were humans beyond the wall.
Which is under his assumption that there's only one group of people against them. Rather than the whole world. We cannot conclude that he would support the rumbling.
It can be a headcanon for you but that's just not how Erwin is.
All I have to say is his name is pronounced like the Hepbern, Eruvin, but 'u' is silent.
Yea I also don’t think Erwin would support it either if anything Erwin and armin are so alike even from their childhood both of them wanted to see the world outside the walls and both h their parents were killed for their views of the world outside the walls(sure we didn’t find out what happened to Armin’s parents but I doubt they made it outside the walls and were probably killed by the military police)
The scouts were always about putting the needs of humanity over their own even if it costs them everything. In the end even the warriors were better scouts than floch and the yaegerists ever could be and saying erwin would support a genocide is simply an insult to his character. He was selfish sure but even when he could have abandoned everyone to fulfill his dreams he stuck by his soldiers to do what was best for humanity.
But he’s my favorite character in aot 12:37
erwin was known for his intelligence & capability to critically thing, eren was not, so
Yeah at least not until he gained the memories
@@stonebrix168 even after that. eren always was a rash one-track-minded childish little boy. just because he stopped yelling about freedom and fighting titans and started seeing a few more colours in his black-and-white mind doesn't mean he became intelligent.
@@maddie_97 I agree with that Eren never truly matured and in the end was just a tool in a plan greater than himself
@@stonebrix168 I love how his tragic his character turned out to be, really. The one who screamed about being free the most was the biggest slave in the end.
I am not saying Erwin would support Mass Genocide, BUT I am pretty sure he'd be okay with committing some war crimes, keeping in mind that he was okay with luring Annie to a fairly populated area, leading to a lot of innocent deaths, or sacrificing the Scouts just to see if there are people outside the walls.
It's so cute to think that this is anything other than a zero sum game.
FINALLY SOMEONE WITH SOME SENSE. Erwin judges himself as a supremely selfish because he's actually incredibly compassionate.
Erwin sacrificed his own ppl to keep moving forward. If he found out the world was HELL BENT on eradicating paradis, there no way he wouldn't side with Eren.
Finally someone with the same opinion as me
A year ago I would have vehemently disagreed but after that ending, I am just happy Erwin was killed off before his character was ruined.
13:19 The man, the legend, the Commander Erwin Smith! Eyyy!
He is right I don’t love they other guy
Ahh okay so bro is saying Erwin would be willing to not kill but kill sometimes but wouldn’t go along with the rumbling. Just a contradiction on its own.
I actually was one of the people who said that Erwin would support the rumbling BECAUSE I LIKED Armin haha
For me, the rumbling is obviously a bad thing, so I tried to justify Armin over Erwin by saying Erwin would support mass genocide.
This was intially what made me see this video haha like, what? That doesn't makes sense lol
Really good video, maybe I should give Erwin another chance.