Should trans athletes compete in female categories? - BBC Newsnight
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- čas přidán 12. 05. 2022
- As cycling’s world governing body continues to mull eligibility of British rider Emily Bridges in women’s events, we explore the transgender issue confronting sport. Please subscribe HERE bit.ly/1rbfUog
Transgender women should compete in an "open category" in order to "protect women's sport", two current elite female runners tell the BBC.
The British athletes, one of whom is an Olympian, believe athletes should only be allowed to compete in the category of their biological sex.
As governing bodies struggle to find a way forward, trans athletes have faced criticism for competing at high levels in sport - even though they’ve met competition standards set by the discipline.
Is there an unfair advantage? Should transgender women be banned from competing in female categories? Should there be a separate category established? Or should sport be more inclusive?
BBC Sports Editor Dan Roan has been investigating the issue following several high profile recent cases that led to controversy and division.
#Newsnight #BBCNews #BBC
Newsnight is the BBC's flagship news and current affairs TV programme - with analysis, debate, exclusives, and robust interviews.
Website: www.bbc.co.uk/newsnight
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Why do people think that testostorone is the only thing seperating a male and female? There things like bone density, lung capacity, heart capacity, body structure... Which all have a major impact on performance in Sport.
@5:10
Some women are big or the same size as males. Testosterone levels should be tested. If the levels are the same as average females. Then let them play & reverse as well.
EXACTLY!
@@hs342 you're crazy I didn't say anything about being big. Some people with high testosterone isn't big at all. Some people are skinny but have high levels.
@@jeremyhall2727 your reaasoning is completely flawed, just because some females are bigger than some males means absolutely nothing and similar levels of testosterone so not mean fairness has been reached
It is really embarrassing that we as a society are seriously considering biological males competing against biological women as fair and inclusive.
Its fxxked up
This is what women voted for and created. Let them lay down on the bed they made.
Preach
No no no no no , we had been told that there are no differences between men and women.
Where is the cry for trans men competing with men? Lol! They know they wouldn't have a chance?
A girl on my track team has run the entire season undefeated in her events but ended up losing to only one person, and it was a trans woman
Your teammate was robbed. She has every right to be angry.
F this world....
Let me guess, her parents said nothing. How's my aim?
@@derp8575 they can’t say anything because then it would cause an uproar
Not saying anything harmed a CHILD. But at least her parents are still popular...@@xfr7591
Women don't stand a chance against these cheaters. Why they allow it? If I were women, I would not take part in such organized sports competitions.
Reducing testosterone is like saying ‘Ive drunk 15 beers but I stopped half an hour ago so I’m all good to drive now’
How they going to reduce bone density, muscle fibers, tendons, V02 max, and overall aerobic function without...harming them?
Oh wait they cant.
Well starvation and lack of muscle use can reduce muscle because your body literally eats your muscles to feed itself for survival
Ya, a few hormone shots isn’t going to completely reverse millions years of evolution
I can't help but notice that its only the former males who wish to compete against women rather than the other way round.
Lol that’s because a woman can’t beat a man but a man can beat a woman fact
I wonder why (also still very much males) 😂
Yes, it's very simple. Gender expression is separate from biological sex. Sex pertains to physical attributes while gender does not. Physical attributes play a role in fairness in sporting competition, therefore sporting categories should be split along lines of sex and not gender. This does not deny the individual rights of gender expression across the rest of society.
“Former males” they’re still males mate.
@@joshuataylor3550 you are right it's very simple, but not for what you're saying, because you are very wrong. The reason it happens is because men have an advantage. It's that simple. No matter what a woman does, no matter what drug she takes or no matter what surgeries she has, the men will still have an advantage. Not just one advantage, and incredible amount of different advantages to the point that it's not even really competitive for the most part. Go ahead and show me a woman transitioning to a man and crushing all the competition LOL, go ahead, I'll wait.
The fact that this is to be debated is insane
Why is this even a debate
That's what I just thought.
Societies, which have such debates obviously have no other problems, liike so many other countries, who suffer under war, famine, poverty, slavery, etc.
The only reason feminists are speaking out is because they've been personally affected. The reason we are in this mess is because of feminism.
Because this is bulllllshiittt and it will end soon
@@user-kw7dh5yo5iYeah exactly what I said it's just a TREND and when everyone gets sick and tired of these things which is finally happening thankfully they'll be a distant memory and we'll all laugh about the time a MAN pretended to be a WOMAN just so the scammer could win medals..
Short answer: No.
Long answer: Hell no.
Real answer: Gender expression is separate from biological sex. Sex pertains to physical attributes while gender does not. Physical attributes play a role in fairness in sporting competition, therefore sporting categories should be split along lines of sex and not gender. This does not deny the individual rights of gender expression across the rest of society.
@joshua taylor, Little girls competing in a sport since very young should not have their dreams shattered by a hairy smelly man, womens rights in sports before men ruin it.
@@joshuataylor3550 stop copy and pasting the same comments in. Gender and sex were one and the same thing up until the last few years, and this video is specifically about trans participation in sport, so how about posting something actually relevant to that? Just an idea.
@@bigernkingpin that is relevant though, Joshua's explaining that you can't put trans women in women's sports because their gender is female, they are still biologically male and no amount of estrogen will change their heart capacity, lung capacity, center of gravity, density of bones, hip arrangement, etc.
@@bigernkingpinthey were never the same thing because gender is 100% a social construct while sex is biological.
1:44 "but a woman is winning" OMG THE GASLIGHTNING
😂🙌
Where? When? Who?
You truly need balls to say that..literally.
She said a woman is a woman dude not winning
What does that even mean, A woman is a woman? Who talks or thinks like that?
100% no, that is not fair or equal. They should be competing in trans categories.
Almost no one will watch. it will be worst than woman's basket ball
Why is it that the women who attempt to transform to men don’t ever try to compete in men’s sports?
Because they are still biologically women and have no chance competing with biological men.
How is it "blatant discrimination" when sports have always been based on biological gender? Doesn't that logically say that's sports have always discriminated?
Facts
Yes, sports was always discriminating, they can either do something about it, or not do anything about it. But the fact that they keep saying it's "fair" is ridiculous
It's not, the world's just lost all sight of what biological gender is & we've all gone insane & brought a whole generation up on denying base reality & forcing our own missconceptions on everyone else based solely on how they feel for no real reason.
I used to feel like i was in the wrong body when I was 7 to 13.
& then that feeling dissapeared into my 14 15's.
I don't know how I would live with myself if I'd tried to force my way into female sports & bathrooms if I had gone through with reassignment.
I know this though, I'd certainly feel very guilty of denying reality & trying to force a literal lie on everyone else
And yes, you're right, it does say that, which is an indication of how absurd the argument is for ignoring the body just because 1 cosmetic change has occured.
Ssssshhhhhh….don’t confuse the left with logic
@@esraeloh8681 the west. Not the world.
If you are going to let Trans Athletes compete, you will need to create a new category. The NCAA has destroyed the Women's Division by allowing the Trans swimmer Thomas to compete, it is a travesty to the actual women that have trained to compete. As a former athlete, feel terrible for those women that are cheated a place in the arena, in the final rounds and on the medal stand.
Well those "Women" athletes should ALL band together, take a hard stance and actually boycott then until something id done.
@@RaikenXion If they speak out they throw away their future, the school should have never allowed it.
@@Minifliek true
If you have gender neutral sports or trans-sport, you're going to have men's sports. They're ALL going to be men. In track and field, swimming, lifting, basketball, baseball, soccer, tennis, etc.
If you allow cheetahs, of the top thousand runners, NONE will be humans
If you allow all ages, the top thousand runners, NONE will be seven year olds
If you allow dolphins, NONE of the top thousand swimmers will be humans
If you have men and women in the same pool, NONE will be women
That why i don't support lgbtq.. Its very horrible
Our ancestors would think we have lost our minds.
The answer is simple: No. As a biologist I am appaled that it’s possible. Someone who was born as a male has approx 20 times higher level of testosterone than someone who was born as a female. It makes them 20 times faster, stronger, competitive, their red blood cells provide oxygen to organs much faster because there is more of them, their injuries potentially heal faster. No hormones or therapies after puberty can change that. Simple Biology. Sport’s institutions should not base their decisions on political correctness but on common sense. If they want to be inclusive, they should create an open cathegory where all athletes interested could participate, no divisions. That would be true equality.
The only reason feminists are speaking out is because they've been personally affected. The reason we are in this mess is because of feminism.
I can all give you something to think about, why allowing this is an utterly bad thing for biological women.
Did you ever notice a case, where a female to male trans person made any noticeable impact in mens-sport? Why not, because they are genetically in a huge disadvantage, even with substituted testosterone. Born male will push born female athletes out of their sport and that will, in some cases, not be able to be reverted (missed scholarships, missed opportunities)
Please don't conflate sex and gender, you mean biological females not women. The is no such thing as a biological women. Gender expression is separate from biological sex. Sex pertains to physical attributes while gender does not. Physical attributes play a role in fairness in sporting competition, therefore sporting categories should be split along lines of sex and not gender. This does not deny the individual rights of gender expression across the rest of society.
So you are saying gender is psychological state while sex is biological?
@@joshuataylor3550 also follow up questions how many genders are there and how many sexes?
Good point. I never even thought of trans-biological-women in men's events. Of course they would lose. That does prove it.
yeah, so what? women are always getting all the advantages in society, and all the support. i won't be losing sleep over one or two women missing out because of a transwoman.
While gender equality is a good thing, in sports however, a lot of things are subject to one's body structure. Biologically speaking, men's body is stronger than a woman so it would be really unfair for women. So 2 things can be done; divide sports according to their biological sex, or make new categories to cater them.
Gender equality is a good thing and that's why a sexist idea called transgenderism should not be accepted.
You do know that trans athletes, biologically speaking; take inhibitors or other biologically affecting medicine to normalize their levels as there are actual requirements for competitions, biological requirements. If I have a male, that was born significant genetically different than the others, they would not be able to compete.
But of course you wouldn’t know that, you’re a troll bot account made a week ago with no clout.
@Johnny Caruthers Because that's what social justice warriors are
I agree
Absolutely NOT! Why is this a question? THEY ARE NOT WOMEN!
When you look at the timing of these “transitions” with the timing of the associated competitions, it becomes very obvious that these people just want to win at any cost. It is extremely pathetic.
A trans racing driver doesn't make the best argument for including trans women in women's sport when racing isn't gender segregated and the advantage that men have over women in that sport is much less than in other sports
Men's advantage in reflexes might be more than you think, women seem unable to successfully compete in a sport where being smaller and lighter is advantageous
Men are even better drivers then women
@@sz6738 at this point, men are better at being women lol
I was thinking the same things lol
Bro 98% of all pro racers are men for a reason. And the 2% who are women are usually in the bottom 20%💀
Create a category of their own unless you want to destroy female athletics competitions
Yes. I was about to comment the same. This would make them feel accepted plus its fair for the cis people
@@Me_di Being excluded doesn't make people feel accepted. Plus hormones have a huge affect on your physiology. Trans men would win everything as testosterone is literally an anabolic steroid.
@@RubenvanKuik i think you’ve lost your brain or dont have the ability to understand my comment
@@user-iq7en1lg3i it may not be realistic but the fact that there arent loads of trans athletes to start a transleague doesnt justify trans athletes being allowed into their opposing sex's sport
@@RubenvanKuik Trans men would still lose cause they are jacked up females, the males would still have too many biological advantages to overcome.
Also you can't force people to accept you they either do or they don't it doesn't impact your life and if it does you should see someone about that.
You can be a boy, a girl or whatever you want! But no matter what one soughts out to be, you have to compete against the same gender that you were at birth.
Your birth gender is your actual gender, as that never changes. A transgender is simply a person acting contrary to his/her actual gender.
That's the point you cannot be whatever you want!
Wrong! You are part of the problem! Is being liked by the masses so important?
@@derp8575 so how come a Male that's trans cant compete against other males? It isnt fair to him in his mind. Same thing as him competing agaisnt women. But in the real world, the women actaully have a real point!
What I meant is that by telling boys that they can be girls, you are part of the problem. Male cannot become female and vice versa. I won't indulge delusions and neither should you. @@mikeray2275
This is so wrong, I can't believe this is even a debate. This is so unfair on women.
Absolutely not. For the same reasons you can’t have a horse race against humans. Men are born physically stronger in most cases.
the horse identifies as trans species. it can compete as a human
Trans women are not men and trans women cannot compete physically against men either so when discussing trans women, why even use the term man? Your just confusing the issue.
@@bridgettc5988 trans woman are men .. they can compete with men just fine . they cant compete with females because its unfair to woman ..
@@bridgettc5988 This Trans bs confuses everyone
@@OkOk-xs8gm not really, just simple minded people
Caitlin Jenner who used to compete in sports is the ideal role model for all transgender athletes. Caitlin competed as a male, and won Olympic gold as a male. So if you are a biological male, compete with the men's sports, and then if you want to dress and act like a female between races then feel free. Or dress like a woman while you do the mans sports. Nobody would mind that. If for example a trans woman wanted to wear a tennis skirt and make up to play against other male tennis players at Wimbledon then nobody has a problem with that. They can wear what they want, put ribbons in their hair and give themselves a girly name. That is all well and good so long as they play against other men. But for a biological male to compete against biological females is an absolute joke. It is sexist, it is insulting and demeaning to all women athletes and all the spectators.
Or just have transgendered events. That's what they are... They aren't biological women, they are transgendered women... They transitioned over through a mental state of mind but were not born a biological women.
Best solution so far
This "Charlie Martin" interview at 3:43, is NOT a part of this discussion. The "physical" aspect of racing does NOT enter the issue at hand. Consider Danica Patrick. SHE is a race car driver ....with no "transitioning". The "physical" aspect of pushing ones-self to the limit is NOT necessary in this sport. It is about DRIVING SKILL, which does NOT require STRENGTH, BODY SIZE, etc.
To bring in Martin in this discussion is purely IGNORANCE of what this is all about. It is about the MALE-BORN BODY VS the FEMALE-BORN BODY .....competing in PHYSCIAL COMPETITIONS. Driving a car is NOT a "physical competition". This is more about "automotive mechanics and driver skills" than it is about "SEX".
The woman making her statements at the 5:48 mark, is merely dancing around the subject and makes statements that are in fact incorrect ....probably hoping that people listening will simply agree with her "reasoning". "....truthfully, the answer isn't definitive yet ...." is an example of someone who can only think with hardcore facts .....rather than look a one body that is taller, bigger, stronger, faster ....compared with another body standing right beside, that is shorter, smaller, weaker, and slower .....and intelligently summarize there would be very little competition between the two. "We are not going to have a positive answer for about 20 years". My strongest recommendation ....FIRE THIS "EXPERT" BECAUSE SHE IS TRULY A DULLARD. She will NEVER be any help to anyone. She's may be over educated, or over-rated .....and simply has no common sense to draw on.
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Totally agree with you
Theres a famous case of a transgender man teenager asking to please compete in the male league because he wanted to wrestle other men.
He was denied because he was "biologically female". He then proceeded to wipe the floor with every woman in the womans division because of course he did. Unfair to him, unfair to the other girls, unfair to everyone.
This is a real story, google it.
Everybody deserves the chance to represent their country in sport, and do it in a dignified way. I think that in todays world, segregating sport by gender is outdated and causes too many issues.
Things should be divided by weight class.
Think about it. Instead of mens and womens, you have sports divided into specific weights and heights. Men and women shuffled together based on just ability and not their gender. Its fairer on the women who want to compete equally in sport, fair on any transgender athlete who wants a fair chance, fair on everyone.
Why does everyone seem to feel like things have to stay as they are, and transgender people simply dont get a fair shot at representing themselves in sport?
Hot take: You should stay away from hormones and any other form and degree of medical transition until you're ready to permanently exit sports in any professional capacity.
What I find so interesting about this issue is that participation in sports has never been about inclusion and fairness to anyone wanting to join in. Maybe only TBall for little kids, but once you start keeping score, you will have a chance to participate only if you are athletic and able to be competitive. If you go to a large High School here in the US and are short and not very athletic good luck trying to make the Varsity Football team. If you are not tall and fast you’re not going to be able to make the basketball team. I can come up with many examples here, but the point is that participating in organized, competitive sports is usually reserved for those that are athletic enough to be selected for the teams or be able to qualify for events. If you decide to transition and that renders you ineligible to participate in sports, then join all the kids that had no choice but joining the chess club because they were not athletic enough to make their school teams even if they grew up loving the particular sport they will not be able to enjoy playing.
There should be women's series for biological women and open series. Nothing else is fair, you can't rewind puberty.
Being born black is also a "real" advantage in the historical statistics. Indeed Nothing is fair, if we want to be segregating inate born differences based on barely researched topics, we got way more categories to start considering
@vzxvzv cxasd
its sometimes a advantage and only in certain sports. Besides, it’s not really a good comparison. Your genetics and place of birth isn’t the same as being born a male and competing with women and therefore getting an advantage. Gender and sex can’t really be compared to different genetics being given to different males. It’s like if a Greyhound considered itself a Rottweiler and could compete in races against them brutally defeating them
@@vzxvzvcxasd7109 looking at the world, being born black is definitely not an advantage
@@vzxvzvcxasd7109 barely researched only if you ignore decades of research
@@vzxvzvcxasd7109 The biological differences between men and women are barely researched? I can see why the trans movement wanted no debate if that's your argument. 😂
as it should be. feelings can’t be more important than facts. and facts are clear to anyone who want to see them. trans athletes going from 163 place in male categories to breaking records in female categories and we are supposed to pretend that there is nothing wrong when WE ALL KNOW why they are “suddenly” winning!!
Coule you give me an example please? I'm writing a paper about the subject but all I can find are opinions about the topic rather than statistics or facts
there a guy who went from like position 121 in mens tennis to dominating females tennis came like seond or something...serena weilliams gave an interview saying she had played him before he transitioned and the best she did was 7 2 ...she got absolutely dominated...not sure the actual scores or what they mean as i dont follow tennis but she said even on her best day he would dominate her... and as far as i know shes like tippppppy top of female league and he was ranked 121 in males@@-_flor_-859
@@-_flor_-859Thomas
@@-_flor_-859Fallon Fox vs Tamikka Brents, though I’m sure you’ve already researched such a well known case.
@@-_flor_-859 I would also cite that Fallon Fox lost to Ashlee Evans-Smith (a biological female) because it's virtually never mentioned in these comments sections. I also recommend looking into the data about how common an orbital fracture is in the MMA. Make sure to dig past the sensationalism.
Why is the guy narrating saying 'Her' when talking about a 6'5 man stood next to a swimming pool?
He’s brainwashed.
This "Charlie Martin" interview at 3:43, is NOT a part of this discussion. The "physical" aspect of racing does NOT enter the issue at hand. Consider Danica Patrick. SHE is a race car driver ....with no "transitioning". The "physical" aspect of pushing ones-self to the limit is NOT necessary in this sport. It is about DRIVING SKILL, which does NOT require STRENGTH, BODY SIZE, etc.
To bring in Martin in this discussion is purely IGNORANCE of what this is all about. It is about the MALE-BORN BODY VS the FEMALE-BORN BODY .....competing in PHYSCIAL COMPETITIONS. Driving a car is NOT a "physical competition". This is more about "automotive mechanics and driver skills" than it is about "SEX".
The woman making her statements at the 5:48 mark, is merely dancing around the subject and makes statements that are in fact incorrect ....probably hoping that people listening will simply agree with her "reasoning". "....truthfully, the answer isn't definitive yet ...." is an example of someone who can only think with hardcore facts .....rather than look a one body that is taller, bigger, stronger, faster ....compared with another body standing right beside, that is shorter, smaller, weaker, and slower .....and intelligently summarize there would be very little competition between the two. "We are not going to have a positive answer for about 20 years". My strongest recommendation ....FIRE THIS "EXPERT" BECAUSE SHE IS TRULY A DULLARD.
.
it's common sense, they should not compete
They should compete in the autobot league
@@Michael20 They should compete in the special olympics.
@@_ArsNova as a special needs my self we don’t want them 🤣
I support trans rights, but I don’t think it’s fair for trans women to compete against cis women in sports. I don’t understand why that’s such an unpopular opinion. When I tell people that I respect trans people but I don’t deny biology, they think I’m just sitting on the fence and that I’m scared to have an opinion, but that IS my opinion. Why does everyone think it has to be black and white? It’s like you have to choose between being seen as a biology denier or a transphobic ‘terf’.
I am a cis woman. That means I’m biologically female and my gender identity is also female. Basically, I’m not transgender. Obviously I’d normally just call myself a ‘woman,’ but in this context (a conversation about how transgender and cisgender women aren’t the same), I have to be specific. If I deleted the words ‘trans’ and ‘cis’ from my comment, it wouldn’t make sense.
@@laurenh9563 'cis' lol. Please just stop.
@@laurenh9563 you could have taken out the word cis and people would have known what you're talking about.
@@laurenh9563 'Gender identity' is ideological nonsense. You do realise that gay people are now expected to sleep with members of the opposite sex due to 'gender identity' or be called bigots? Look up 'The Cotton Ceiling'.
All fun and game until it hits home. Hypothetically, If you were a professional athlete (as in your job in on the line) would you compete against transwomen? That is the difference between people sitting on the fence shouting and the people fighting in the arena.
Funny how there is NEVER a conversation about trans men in men's sports, almost as if, gasp, there are inherent biological differences between men and women!
There's a logical way to solve this. If you have XX chromosomes, you can compete in women's sports. If you have anything else, you can compete in men's sports.
I feel like a third group where any gender can compete would be the best option.
Except cis males would win.
You're absolutely correct. There wasn't always a women's division. The women's division in international sports came after women fought and lobbied for a long time to make it happen. Now transgenders feel they should just be allowed in because they consider themselves women? What about the Women Athlete's rights?
Transgender women take hormone treatments to appear like women. Many of those hormones are on the banned substance list for international sports so they are saying, in the name of equality, that they should be allowed to take banned substances while real women cannot? How is that equal? By not including that issue MSM is not reporting the whole story.
And what about the other 60 genders that Facebook recognizes??
Agreed
it wont, because that is not the issue
average males physically outmatch females, that is a fact of biology
the males that compete in female divisions are bottom of the crop failures from the male division
so a third option where anybody can compete would just end up with the best males, just like how it is in female divisions now
No, they should have their own category
We can call it "The Special Olympics" or something
Make it the “gays sports”
Trans men & Trans Women
Done
exactly, and put on some obscure channel for sexually depraved people.
@@Maestroxxx1 💀
The way you feel about yourself doesn't change how strong your muscle fibers are and how easily they rebuild themselves. Just because you feel like a girl doesn't mean you can keep your body from acting the way it was designed for your gender at birth.
How is this even an argument. I’m from Australia and I can’t imagine a trans women playing the AFL would be absolutely brutal
Compete with the body you were born with. Men haven’t made themselves six inches shorter or made their shoulders more slender. Bigger hands, longer limbs, longer muscles, larger bones, heavier weight, stronger upper body. It’s completely unfair and appalling that anyone would feel good about winning by cheating.
So why have women kept saying they are just as good as men for the past 30 years? Now it actually affects you, you want to back track.
@@liggmabawls5634 maybe because nowadays biological strength is not the main characteristics for humans in society?? but intellectual abilities and skills are. But in sport(obviously not talking about chess or smthing like this) your speed or strength is only important. Very strange comment
@@donbon1740 Even chess and esports are male dominated too.
@@donbon1740 in chess the best players are men as men have more variability in IQ. The stupidest people and smartest people are men
Blame those calling for gender equality, rather than gender equity.
This is a huge win for women and girls. We have got to reclaim dignity and fairness for women everywhere! I am so tired of women being eradicated and pushed out of their spaces where they can shine.
There is only win for women and girls when women and girls achieve greatness not when Trans women achieve these same things since they are not women. Women achievements have nothing to do with trans women.
Exactly 👏🏼
This "Charlie Martin" interview at 3:43, is NOT a part of this discussion. The "physical" aspect of racing does NOT enter the issue at hand. Consider Danica Patrick. SHE is a race car driver ....with no "transitioning". The "physical" aspect of pushing ones-self to the limit is NOT necessary in this sport. It is about DRIVING SKILL, which does NOT require STRENGTH, BODY SIZE, etc.
To bring in Martin in this discussion is purely IGNORANCE of what this is all about. It is about the MALE-BORN BODY VS the FEMALE-BORN BODY .....competing in PHYSCIAL COMPETITIONS. Driving a car is NOT a "physical competition". This is more about "automotive mechanics and driver skills" than it is about "SEX".
The woman making her statements at the 5:48 mark, is merely dancing around the subject and makes statements that are in fact incorrect ....probably hoping that people listening will simply agree with her "reasoning". "....truthfully, the answer isn't definitive yet ...." is an example of someone who can only think with hardcore facts .....rather than look a one body that is taller, bigger, stronger, faster ....compared with another body standing right beside, that is shorter, smaller, weaker, and slower .....and intelligently summarize there would be very little competition between the two. "We are not going to have a positive answer for about 20 years". My strongest recommendation ....FIRE THIS "EXPERT" BECAUSE SHE IS TRULY A DULLARD. She will NEVER be any help to anyone. She's may be over educated, or over-rated .....and simply has no common sense to draw on.
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YES! Exactly that! Let women be in their own spaces, in their bathrooms only women, in sports only women. We really don't need more penises around claiming they are women.
Yes trans men on testosterone should compete against women in sports.
No, it’s not fair for the other women, protect the women sports, no male athletes allowed, and no transgender
"Dou you understand that women have zero chance of winning"......"but a woman is winning"😂😂 the world is going crazy 🤣
that's what comes off denying history. We live in a world that allows us to be whatever we want regardless of our history. But we can't rewrite the past. A transwoman was a man before. A biological woman was never a man. You can call tranwoman a women, but they weren't always this way. And politics shouldn't be able to erase the truth.
Most women chose the woke bs rather than basic logic, this is the result!!.... power to men I guess 😆women/feminists supported this nonsense when they were being asked what's a woman and they couldn't give a straight answer or just gave the same bs one used nowadays that "a woman is anyone who identifies as one", now dudes identify as women and are winning... Women started speaking up when men started dominating them in all sports, but that was inevitable, they just ignored basic science now they have to deal with it.
Literally
That's mean the trans that compete r useless men. He even lost with women... Shame.
he is not a woman he is a man a biological male is a man!
Why don't they just maintain their testosterone level and compete vs men?
Interesting side question, why don't female to male transgenders compete vs men? Maybe because they KNOW there is an advantage?
They do maintain testosterone levels, they do compete vs men, f to m trans people do compete vs men. You explained it yourself, don’t understand the confusion.
@@chainhold And yet this video explains that M to F do indeed reduce their testosterone levels as if that is the 'fix' to make them even.
There's that confusion you didn't understand.
Because they can't. They're lousy male athletes so they want to steal victory from women.
Second question. Because they dont pass the preliminary round 😅
@@chainhold 'f to m trans people do compete vs men. You explained it yourself, don’t understand the confusion.' Where has this happened? None will ever get to any decent standard in physical sports because biology matters.
High School Trans Athlete Taking the Spot of a Biological Girl is not right, indeed.
Transgender athletes should be made to compete against each other.
The pro-trans side constantly obfuscates the fact that when the category of "women's sports" was created, the terms gender and sex were seen as synonymous, as in the category was obviously not created around people's "gender identity" but around the female biological sex.
Nowadays when a forced separation of the two terms, sex and gender, has occurred, the pro-trans side tries to use it to their advantage, as in "what's the problem, the trans woman is a woman competing in a woman's competition" etc.. If you try to point out that transitioning gender doesn't change a person's sex, and transitioning sex is a physical impossibility, they will a) lie about the extent to which HRT affects a body (trying to brush away the fact that HRT does not affect skeletal structure/hip geometry/centre of gravity, lung capacity, heart size, reproductive/internal organs, differences in seeing motion, fast twitch muscles, tendon strength etc. etc. - in fact every cell in the body is sexed and there are 6500 genetic differences between males and females), and b) disregard their own mantra of "sex and gender are separate" and argue that female sports are somehow protected based on gender, even though even they will admit that gender is a social construct (i.e. not a physical reality and thus a completely arbitrary and pointless metric by which to categorise any sports divisions), and finally c) call every factual point you raise transphobic and claim that is reason enough to disregard your opinion... Because inevitably they will at some point try to fall back on saying trans people will kill themselves if they don't get what they want, ie emotional blackmailing.
There is nothing wrong with saying biological males who make the personal choice to go on HRT/transition, are not then entitled to decide that they shouldn't have to lose against other males, and should thus be allowed to compete against females so it would be more fair to them - that is an absolutely absurd demand. A sex category is inclusive of everyone born as that sex, and exclusive of everyone who was not, there is no judgemental discrimination there.
Trans identified individuals have severe mental health issues with accepting themselves or the reality they were born into, as the very notion of being "born in the wrong body" is entirely absurd, it is an absolute impossibility that "someone or something made a mistake" when a person was born - you are born as you are, and that IS the reality we must live with - in cases of extreme discomfort, it is the psychological side that must be worked on, as that is where the issue resides. It is beyond baffling seeing the rise of this attitude that delusions should be accepted, that we go along with people who think there is something wrong with their body because they feel uncomfortable with the sexist gender stereotypes of society, and encourage irreversibly damaging their bodies.
The riling against "conversion therapy" is also unfounded, as identifying as trans, is in no shape or form a sexual orientation. Calling it conversion therapy is dishonest and an attempt to manipulate the discourse, there may however not be any truly appropriate therapy for this specific problem being utilised at the moment, something absolutely specific to the identity issues and self-acceptance problems with trans people, and that is something which needs delving into more, rather than being shunned as unethical - what is beyond unethical is the calls for allowing children to transition as early as possible (more scientific ignorance from trans activists as they disregard cognitive and emotional maturity among other things).
Very well argued!
Trans is a creation. It's just sexual stereotypes with a new label
Precisely
@erythr aro What do you even mean? Do you think any sort of therapy regarding self-image etc. is "conversion therapy"? Do you think therapists simply cannot challenge the patient's assumptions about reality? Do you think the entire idea of people getting help with mental health issues is pointless?
Why do TRAs always talk about how trans people not getting what they want will lead to suicides? Do you people think claiming they don't suffer from mental health issues, yet will kill themselves if they don't get others to agree with them sounds convincing?
👏👏👏👏👏
If they go through with this then men and women should just start competing against each other imo
Women would lose often
@@shagbabyyeah almost every time
@@shagbabyyeah yea but if you think about the situation the people are debating about that's essentially what's actually happening imo
Exactly. Either open it up for everyone or make a 3rd category
@@mike0nabike I agree it's the only way the majority of people can be happy I'm not saying this is right it's just the only solution I can actually think of as a middle ground to keep both sides happy I think things should be the way they always were but if the people want a change then a middle ground must be made to keep things "Fair" and "Inclusive" if that's the narrative they go for you can't drop one or the other without either side going crazy imo.
Soon the question will be---Should women be allowed to compete in Transgender sports?
The answers itself arises with the question ‘have you ever seen any trans-male competing against male athletes ? and why only trans women are competing against Women in women’s sports?’ and these are the questions who gives birth to answers which should burry the whole debate itself.
They're starting with sports, which isn't nearly as big of an issue as trans "women" in women's shelters and women's jails. Conservatives are right on this one - It's males invading female spaces.
ofcourse not, its a physical competition not mental
even in mental games like chess their is a separation. men are aggressive physically it begins in the mind. even in chess biological separation is implemented men and women chess are separated.
Absolutely not.
Have a separate category for trans athletes if you must, but it's simply unfair to have people biologically born male to compete with biological women.
There's only so much that hormonal inhibitors and similar tools can do.
The fact that this is even being discussed is mind blowing😤
Im sick of this whole trans topic
If a motorbike identified as a push bike would it be allowed to compete in the Tour de France 🤷♂️. People are free to be who they want to be however it doesn’t seem fair in competitive sports, and perhaps there could be a separate category for trans people
They have paralympic category, they should create an "open" category. This whole testosterone thing makes no sense. A body born male will always have a mechanical advantage over one born female.
You made my day 🤣
i love that
Er no because you can clearly see that a motorbike has an engine! Maybe an electric bike tho!
You don't have to identify as a shed to be as thick as two short planks.
Honestly this is not a "difficult decision". Everyone with common sense knows the answer to this.
Yes. And we have known it since the dawn of time. We are living in 🤡🌎
Sitting in car is not physicaly same competition as running 100 meters.
That's one of the most embarrassing situation in sports and disrespect to women in history, and this psychopath had the guts to take the award, instead of giving the award to whom in reality belongs in first place, and they supported him , and shame her 🚩🚩🚩 this BS need to stop right now 🚩💯
If you changed, that was your decision. Nothing wrong with how you feel and what you want, but don't impose your life decision onto others and or groups. Play your birth sex. The fact that this is even a debate is insane. Like what you like and do activities you enjoy, but don't push to force a change on something that doesn't need it at all. There's no hard feelings. Life doesn't just bend to your desires, everyone should know that. If you can't accept the fact that life won't always go your way, then you have some personal mental health problems to think through regardless if you're straight or LGBT+. Politicians and committees need to understand how deliver the right stance, not just the public appeal stance. Those people should know how to poetically manipulate words where people understand the reasoning and don't feel offended.
Why don't we just put nba players against handicap basketball players? Just because you want to be apart of something doesn't make it right.
did u just compare women athletes with handicapped athletes? You can read from your written Text that you where raised as a male.
@@DMmertI think the reference was obvious. Out of all the points that were made, that’s what you chose to tune into although the comparison was to make a point in a more dramatic sense. But you knew that…
@@DMmert What a way to skip around an logical argument,I believe you must be groomed as trans .
@@DMmert women competing against trans women are handicapped by an unfair advantage so I guess you’re right
@@DMmert what a disingenuous argument. But, what more should we expect from someone who is obviously a perpetual victim?
"Inclusion" is a word that has lost all real meaning. Not everyone should be included in everything. To do so would be preposterous.
For instance, I should never be included in anything involving swimming because I sink like a rock.
If we are going to keep segregating male and female competitors, it needs to be based on chromosomes. Nothing else makes sense when you consider the purpose of the segregation.
A lived trans experience??? What has this to do with sport or fairness? Male and female categories were introduced for a reason. And we ALL know why.
If you’re a woman, simply ignore the starting pistol if there is a man racing .
They should have, and compete in, their own categories in sport.
how many would there be? top athletes are rare trans people are rare the overlap would lead to very few people competing
@@graveperil2169 yeah. So the trans sports category will have to grow. What’s wrong with that?
@@graveperil2169 2 people is all that's required for a competition. 1 person is all that's required, to start setting sporting records/results, in many fields of sport, that people in the trans community can be inspired to start competing in sports.
So what's your point Grave Peril?
@@graveperil2169 So? Why is that an issue?
@@bobcprimus because events cost money
Imagine training your whole life for a sport as a woman, just to lose to some guy who thinks he is a woman... sad times
Indonesia is unfair,they allowed transwoman in volleyball,but they did not allowed christianity in their country
Lia Thomas has caused too much resentment im afraid....hes a cheat plain and simple.
Im in my 50s and out of shape. I demand to compete in the Olympics at the same level against Phelps, Serena Williams or whomever. Anything else is unequal and unfair to my feelings. I demand inclusion and equity!
And please stop calling us normal women “cis women”. We are women. They are men who think they are women or viceversa. They are individuals with a condition called gender dysphoria. People who aren’t disabled arent called “cisable”. Create sports for transgenders where they can compete against each other, and while at it build the Bathrooms for them too, but leave the rest of us 99%ers alone. Stop it with this trans stupidity. It’s getting tiresome.
I was going to explain my side but actually google will help you more
www.google.com/search?q=cisgender+definition&rlz=1CDGOYI_enCA1016CA1017&hl=en-US&sxsrf=APwXEdfxMQ0-NVuHaTZKQHqjrWMhUw7CGQ%3A1680105273142&ei=OV8kZPOsCMau0PEP5oCiuAc&oq=cisgender+def&gs_lcp=ChNtb2JpbGUtZ3dzLXdpei1zZXJwEAEYADIQCAAQigUQsQMQkQIQRhD5ATIICAAQigUQkQIyBQgAEIAEMggIABCKBRCRAjIFCAAQgAQyBQgAEIAEMgUIABCABDIFCAAQgAQ6CggAEEcQ1gQQsAM6BAgjECc6BwgAEIoFEEM6CggAEIAEEBQQhwI6CwguEIAEEMcBEK8BOgsIABCABBCxAxCDAToNCAAQigUQsQMQgwEQQzoLCAAQigUQsQMQgwE6DggAEIoFELEDEIMBEJECOgoIABCKBRCxAxBDOg0IABCABBAUEIcCELEDOgsIABCKBRCxAxCRAkoECEEYAFCRBFi8M2DGOGgBcAB4AIABXogB_AqSAQIyMZgBAKABAcgBCMABAQ&sclient=mobile-gws-wiz-serp
I agree with you 100% we are WOMEN not that cis crap it’s just a way for the “trans” people to push us to the side. It’s always about their feelings and I’m not going to bow down to delusions. Everytime I even try to speak up for myself I’m just loudly talked over or being called “transphobic” it’s ridiculous we are not even aloud our own opinion at this point. 🙄 it’s a joke at this point. 🤡
Biological women should compete with other biological women. ❤
How is it that an athlete who is found to have taken steroids or any performance-enhancing drug is disqualified for unfair advantage/sportsmenship, yet a man with the biological advantage of increased muscle mass, lung capacity, etc can state he identifies a a female and that’s not an unfair advantage?!? 🤔
Why are there no female to male trans athletes in the top echelons of male sports?
Should motorcyclists compete in the tour de France?
No because there's no way you can hide the fact that a motorcycle is a motorcycle. A better argument would be an electric powered bicycle because there is often very little to show the difference and in fact a professional cyclist was once banned because he was found to have had an electric motor hidden inside his bicycle frame!
@@B-A-L And there's no way to hide the fact that a trans female is a man. They have an XY chromosome no matter what degree of surgery they undergo.
A juiced to the gills Lance Armstrong competed.
@@B-A-L My motorcycle identifies as a push bike though.
Hormones are only important if you want to control their growth and development, but that matters before adolescence. On average, adult male has bigger lungs, more muscles, and a larger skeleton compared to an adult female. These advantages can't be reduced by hormone therapy. If you think iam wrong, put transfemale vs transmale in a competitive match, you will see. If involvement of LGBT community in sport is so important, please create a special category for them. By the way, i can't wait for the day when female transitioning to a male tries an allmen competitive sport.
You're partially right. If a male takes testosterone blockers and/or takes estrogen, he WILL lose muscle mass, strength, and explosiveness, and his body fat levels WILL increase, and his bone density will decrease. That's fact. But, you are correct that other things - like his height, his arm span, leg length, etc. have already been achieved during puberty. So, in summary, you can reduce some of a man's "manliness", but no all of it.
As a feminist, I say no they can't. As much as I would support inclusion this is a disqualifying factor in this situation.
Be who you are--- a trans person. And, compete in the biological category accordingly. I can certainly support a trans woman winning in the male category, not in the female category.
Trans women have the option to compete in the biological category of birth. Be understanding of CIS women position. I find it disheartening that we are to be understanding, but understanding isn't offered back. It's unethical at the very least. If you want understanding, be understanding, put ego and selfishness aside. It's just not the same-same.
No! They must create their own category. It's a man against bullying women again!
Someone *saying* they identify as a different gender doesn’t mean anything, you still have a biological advantage
Put them in their own category. They should only be classed after they've gone through the entire transition with surgery.
@Graham Cook If you're over 18 and officially an adult with stable hormones and no body dysmorphia, underlying trauma etc.
Then it should be up to each person alone to decide on what they do with their body.
No state, person or health group should rule over your own personal rights.
@@cocos8903 Sure, but it's not up top them who they can compete agaisnt. Nor can they tell me what I have to call them.
If you are going to have gender-neutral sports or trans-sport, you're going to have men's sports. They're ALL going to be men. In track and field, swimming, lifting, basketball, baseball, soccer, tennis, any physical sport.
If you allow cheetahs, of the top thousand runners, NONE will be humans
If you allow all ages, the top thousand runners, NONE will be seven year olds
If you allow dolphins, NONE of the top thousand swimmers will be humans
If you have men and women in the same sport, NONE will be women
It doesn't matter who you "identify" as, the reality is that you are born as who you are.
I will identify as someone with special needs and then compete in the special Olympics.
An excellent comment!
Should trans athletes compete in female categories?
The trans women should not compete in female categories being that they are stronger and faster than biological women. However, I don't think it would be an issue for trans men to compete with biological women.
To put an end to this nonsense, the real women in sports should just stop competing in events where trans athletes compete, fortunately there aren't enough trans athletes who compete in a variety of sports, so the negative effect of real women missing out on a few events a year should have less of an negative impact than actually competing against trans athletes, this should put pressure on organizers and sponsors to come to the table and find a solution.
They actually disgust me. I’m so proud of our lady’s for sticking up for what is right knowing the backlash they would get from the toxic leftists on social media
Nope they shouldn’t. Look I know we gotta be understanding about the other side but they also have to be understanding of the biological advantages they have over women
If they transitioned before puberty then sure I can see that as an exception (given documentation/proof of transition before) but after they should have their own category.
Let’s face it…. We see a bunch of males transitioned to become women to compete. We hardly ever see a female transition into a man and compete at any high level sport. Why? Because they are at a severe disadvantage when playing against men. So men that transitions are already at an advantage.
Sorry not sorry but there’s gotta a be some middle ground here.
How many 10 year old girls have you ever been aware of who can kick the shit out of 10 year old boys.. probably 0 so saying transition before puberty is irrelevant because the male has been born a male and the female a female. The physical differences between male and female 10 year olds are clear and sport is based on physicality
I agree. I’m not cisgender but I still acknowledge that trans women will have a natural biological advantage because of height, bone density, lung size etc. I’m disappointed to see the lack of acknowledgement from trans women of this reality. On several occasions they swerved this direct question and asked why they couldn’t have everything.
Trans women do receive a lot of unfair discrimination, but I don’t think this is an example of it
Honestly, I don’t see how transitioning before puberty would change them enough to be fair to compete in female sports. They still aren’t FEMALE and they never will be.
@@mattsmith5421 no many but there are a rare expecting but I hear you. I can’t imagine a child going through treatment before puberty anyway but I think puberty would be a large factor in determining what sport they can play and if they are already going through a transition. It’s tough man but one thing I agree with is that men should play with men and women should play with women. If that’s the case imagine how many men can identify as a woman to compete in their sport and be “the best” lol just trying to help find a healthy middle grojnd
@@queven6355 you should read why the Tavistock clinic was shut in the UK... a disgraceful outfit butchering young kids for cash. And supposed to be a leading centre for the NHS.
We're really asking if men should compete in women's sports 🤦♂️
The last woman said we don’t know yet about the advantages. Everyone knows that taking some hormone shots isn’t going to negate every physical and athletic advantage men have over women. You don’t need any testing, or studies, or debates, it’s completely clear and obvious
I fully support trans ppl - but as that one ep in southpark showed - it is kinda unfair sadly.
You could make a new category for both trans man and woman however! After all its the sport that should mattar and not in who's team your playing.
that third category would also be dominated by men.
@@kevinb9830 call it men on heels category!!!
😂🤪😆😜🤣
they don't want to join the men's category like hell let them make their own!!! they can even have transgender lesbian if they want to...we don't care!!!
allowing them to join the womens category is like consenting to doping or have a fox dressed like a turtle join a turtle race!!!
#TransgenderAreCheaters
A category for trans men and one for trans women
If you are going to have gender-neutral sports or trans-sport, you're going to have men's sports. They're ALL going to be men. In track and field, swimming, lifting, basketball, baseball, soccer, tennis, any physical sport.
If you allow cheetahs, of the top thousand runners, NONE will be humans
If you allow all ages, the top thousand runners, NONE will be seven year olds
If you allow dolphins, NONE of the top thousand swimmers will be humans
If you have men and women in the same sport, NONE will be women
It doesn't matter who you "identify" as, the reality is that you are born as who you are.
If it doesn't matter if transwomen compete against ciswomen then why don't we see more instances of transmen winning swimming championships against cismen? Why don't the transwomen compete cismen? If the differences don't matter?
This just doesn't make sense. And like the last guest said above, the science isn't conclusive. Until then ciswomen sports should be left for ciswomen.
please don't use the term 'cis'. You are playing their game.
Transvestites should compete against each other to be fair.
Very simply - NO
NO,NO,NO, Why do women never transform into mens sports,that is very obvious isn't it. ??
While I agree with you, they shouldn't be allowed to compete in women's sport, there are women who transition into men (and presumably try to compete in men's sport).
The insanity is, that we're even having this conversation
"No one should have to choose between being who they are, and participating in the sport they love."
But you can participate? Against men, as a trans-woman?
Let trans play sport but not compete. Problem solved.
Just image you have the worlds fastest male on some distance turning female. That would be quite unfair for the other females wouldn’t it?
I say we do a fund raiser to get usain bolt to do it. It would put an end to this quite quickly
Fastest female won't even qualify in regional male tournaments. No need to bring in the fastest guy, just an above average dude
Either get rid of male and female categories. Or have other categories.
There is only 1 Olympic sport that has male and female athletes competing against each other. But mixed sport like mixed doubles in tennis is being expanded. Next Olympics there will be some mixed yachting events.
@@justmr9553 I see that as one of the only solutions. Testing Testosterone levels doesn't really make sense. Some natural females have high levels.
Getting rid of the categories is a terrible idea.
@@Groggle7141 why
@@mr.wookiesack Because it would spell the end of professional sports for most biological females.
The fact that there isn't as much of an issue with trans men taking over men's sport is so telling.
What's funny you never see woman wanting to be men in mens sports
Be whoever you wanna be but play it fair
If ya born a male but don't identify so
And wanna still compete in the sport you love, live your life as a woman but still compete at the male team which you still biologically belongs to
Sometimes comedy writes it's itself. This is like an uno reverse from men for all the things women fought so hard for. They can't let women have all the fun.
No no they're not men anymore
@@sharpasacueball stfu they're men in dresses who take everything from REAL women !!
Thank God this bullshit doesn't exists in my country.
Let me fix that heading for you...
"Should men be allowed to compete in women's sports?"
Saying "I am a woman" does not turn a man into a woman.
Nor does taking a couple of drugs.
Nor does having some elective surgery.
How someone FEELS does not change what they ARE.
Ill give an answer, leave the women sports alone and let trans compete against trans in their own sport.
I heard the transwomen say that it’s unfair to make them choose between lifestyle or sport, but transmen have to do that.
coming from a previous MLR rugby player myself. You absolutely can not only use sports that require very little to no contact. They are mainly only competing in sports that are individual races, weight lifting, hand eye coordination. If you really want to see the truest overall difference, just let transgender athletes compete in full contact sports. I.e American football, rugby, wrestling, kick boxing, MMA etc. the physical ability when it’s straight brute force down to a biological advantage you might re think if it’s fair or unfair for transgender athletes to compete with sis gender athletes
Yep, exactly. But even in non-contact sports, males often blow females away. I read somewhere that a 15 and under boys team demolished the U.S. women's national soccer team. If I'm not mistaken even an Australian boys 15U team smoked the Australian women's national team.
Careful now, you don’t want to be cancelled.