The Perilous Mindscape of The Dark Forest by Cixin Liu || BOOK REVIEW
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- čas přidán 28. 06. 2024
- In this video I did my best to 1) explain some of the ideas Cixin Liu evoked in me given my educational background and 2) tried to edit my video to make it more appealing. Undoubtedly, there are improvements to be made to both. Smarter people than me can articulate the intricacies of these concepts and my video editing is still very basic. That said--I loved making this video and put far more time into it than I usually do for book reviews. I hope you like it!
What did you like about this book?
Chapters
0:00 Intro
1:19 Disclaimer
2:02 3BP Recap & TDF Synopsis
4:30 Selfish Ji
7:52 Pacing
9:18 Wallbreaker Dynamic
10:20 Selfless Behai & The Great Ravine
15:16 Ji vs Behai
16:24 2 Rules of Space Civilization & The Prisonner's Dilemma
19:46 Signal Detection Theory & Evolutionary Psychology
22:42 3 Dark Forests
![Death's End [Spoiler] Review | The Three Body Problem](/img/n.gif)
The Dark Forest was my favorite book in the trilogy. A slow start, but what a payoff! Also that one part 💧
💧 if you know you know
💧My god, what a scene
Subverting all expectations, cannot wait to see that scene in the series adaption 💧
Best ending of all.
💧the payoff definely worth it! 100%
The Ideas and Concepts used on the trilogy are mind-blowing, the best sci-fi read I've had in a while.
P.D: I'm Venezuelan and President Diaz did nothing wrong :P
He wanted to use the destruction of the Earth as a bargaining chip to threaten the Trisolarans, which was unacceptable to the public, so he had to die
I agree. His plan was basically the same as Luo Ji
@@edgbarra because it is, Luo Ji used the plan of Rey Diaz but from a different approach.
@@ShadowFri3nd the difference is that Rey Diaz's plan hinged on an empty threat.
@@PWiz30 but a threat, trisolaran's didn't understand the concept of Lies and Deceive so it was a good plan, Luo Ji plan was a better version because the deterrent threat was real and Trisolaran's knew it.
Yeah, it would have been wild if Da Shi was Luo Ji's Wallbreaker, but I really liked the idea that Luo was his own Wallbreaker as he discovered the plan he didn't know he already had
Zhang Beihai is the hidden 5th wallfacer
YES
Zhang is an absolute badass and absolutely everything he did was riveting and just absolute boss mode behaviour
I understand the desire to not spoil anything but, in my opinion, these types of discussions are so much better with spoilers on the table. Still, Great video about one of the greats of modern sci fi.
Death's End = mind blown and it doesn't stop blowing up.
The Dark Forest is one of the scariest concepts in sci fi to me. The idea that there are all these civilizations out there, but they’re terrified of ever exposing themselves to a more advanced one so they’re all hiding as best they can.
Excepting the Earthlings that sent Voyager
I find this more believable than mainstream sci-fi like Star Trek.
@@lidvm something like voyager would be like me sending a speck of dust from my bedroom to yours. I have no idea where the destination is, and even if it makes it you will likely never notice it.
Book 3 is absolutely insane and I loved every second of it. Just when you think it can't get any crazier Cixin Liu pulls out something else to make your jaw drop and this continues right until the end. The scale is incredible and Cixin Liu has succeeded in making the whole thing feel massive to an extent I haven't really found in anything else. Can't wait to see what you think about it.
The prologue was genius when you later learn exactly what it was about, and also the Singer chapter was just absolutely insane.
Indeed, the scope is nothing like I have read before
To be honest I couldn't stand the main character. Every wrong choice possible she makes. Humanity only survives because of a fluke
@@chirikopen4294 sadly its only
No matter how fast u are there is some one faster
Elder may i use it
Why not
@@scurvydog20 Cixin Liu once told that the main characters is not for you to like, but are vessels to tell the story. And to be honest, in real life there are people who are worse and make worser decisions than the main character.
I just finished the 3rd book and man what a mind blowing series. It's enough for me to say I can't ellude to anything without taking something away from the experience of reading/listening to it yourself. I can't wait for you review when you get through it. Great content !
The third book is really dense and definitely a hard scifi. The physics were beyond my comprehension. Huge scale in terms of both time and space. I might be in the minority here, but there are a couple fairy tales in the third book that made me like it a lot. And it had some really interesting character explorations which I also enjoyed.
The final reveal of those three fairy tales is mind blowing.
@@MsCuirassier actually i ignored the 2 fairly tales and fellow the scientif stuff in novel
In china,so many people like this story,the three body problem anime released yesterday got over 100 million watching
@@dylanliu9490
Wait there’s an anime? What’s it called?
@@sharojak9401 bro,the anime is already doom,i mean the quality is bad,but the three body series publish two month ago is great,it only perform the book three body 1, you can watch hereczcams.com/video/YrLompD6e_k/video.html
I feel like there’s an expansion of scope from book 1 to book 3. In book 1 we deal with issues among people on earth. In book 2 we can’t afford to fight amongst ourselves so we go earth vs trisolarians. In book 3 even the struggle of civilizations isn’t the major problem but the survival of the universe at large. But there would be a lot to unpack, so enjoy book 3 first. Also just to give you a heads up, the title of the 3rd book isn’t Death’s End in Chinese, it’s Death (as in God of Death) Lives Forever. I’m waiting for some analysis regarding that title given the content of the book.
This series is cosmic horror at it´s finest.
How insightful of you to notice Luo Ji´s power of imagination to bring his ´´dream woman´´ to life through the Wallfacer project - and relate it to him fleshing out the axioms of social cosmology that he received from Ye Wenjie - resulting in the dark forest deterrence. That ultimately, greatest threat to the Trisolarans was indeed, the human mind.
Great analysis and discussion, thanks for posting. I loved the book too and well worth talking about here. Definitely share your enthusiasm and enjoyment of all the depth, game theory and concepts. Fun to talk to my kids about it too, they picked up surprisingly quick on the Fermi paradox and "Don't send a radio signal out into space!!!" Apparently several Game of Thrones actors and writers are working on the Netflix series, I hope they can do it justice, could be fun to see TV series version as well.
Boom, I have almost the exact same take as you. Fantastic series. Didn’t catch some of the nuance you saw, so thanks for sharing.
This book is simply mindblowing. The takeaway at the end brought me to tears. Knowing what I know now, I want to go back and reread everthing
Loved it!
关于罗辑和章北海两位的角色对比分析十分有独特见解，从未看到过的诠释👏
"Trisolarans, welcome to Earth, we are your Wall breaker."
It established pretty early on that Luo Ji was going to be his own wall breaker.
bro! been waiting for your review of death's end.
I know I've delayed it way too long. There are many books I've read that I've yet to review. I run a BJJ academy and have been competing a lot which has consumed my schedule.
Since Sandman has been released I have to go back through those comics and then I'll likely have enough of a sci fi itch to finish Death's End.
I enjoyed all 3 books, i think this one was my favorite though. First book was a lot of setup but once the story came together there was a lot of satisfaction in thinking through the setup and all the time jumping and confusion introduced. Third book was a great conclusion, though the ending i'm still conflicted about though, and there was some unlikability factors with the characters, as well as some mind bending physics concept to try and wrap your brain around. Looking forward to your review of the 3rd book.
Manipulating physics to be used as a weapon is one of the scariest concepts I've ever heard of
It's been a long time since you're updating new videos. Hope you're in a good shape. Ganbatte
The Dark Forrest actually makes sense. It also makes much more rational assumptions about space than the Fermi Paradox do. In nature, prey don't walk around signalling to the predator where it is. It's attempting to escape the predators' jaws.
As such, any really advanced civilization, would probably land in the conclusion that signalling it's species locations is most likely a really, really, *really* bad idea.
The 2nd book is the most amazing out of all three amazing books.
I needed time to digest book 2. Loved it because it turned my perceptions of first contact upside down.
Mixed feelings about book 3. Curious to know your thoughts on it.
Enjoyed the dark forest even more than the TBP. The space the author gave to characters, to decisions characters made and to concepts did more than deliver an expansive world. It left you guessing as to how this theme or that action tied into the overall plot. The reveal of each "twist", let's say, never failed to inspire awe
Thanks for the review! I just finished this and it was amazing. (spoilers) I will say, in my opinion, there were some pacing issues. By the end I realized that some of the early scenes with Ji were unnecessarily long (IMO). And, as you said, the three neighbors with the angry mining tycoon? That kinda went nowhere, except to show later that rationing had started again. I also, for whatever reason, had a problem with HInes' wife revealing what she did when she did it. It just bothered me. I understand why, mostly, but it felt really out of place in this book. That's just me. Otherwise- wow. This was AWESOME.
wall breaker had to reveal the true object of wall facer in order to stop them from doing it, Just like what happened to that nuke plan... it’s just that by the time that the last wall facer’s plan was revealed, human was too optimistic on their future and nobody will do the thing that ETO doesn’t want humans to do: escape from earth. So that action happened to give Zhang a huge boost on his plan
Book 3 touches some ideas about neuro science, I think you might enjoy it!
i'm watching season 1 of the chinese series now, amaaingggggggggggggggggggggggg. thanks for the review
How and where did you find it? I can't find it anywhere!
I saw a little bit of hubris when the opted to confront the droplet full. More ships could have escaped the system.
Im not sure if it's intentional.
Luoji 罗辑in Chinese is similar to 逻辑 (also pronounced as luoji), which means logic.
Not only Luo Ji, but a lot other the failed and dead characters contributed to the dark forest theory and its deterrance.
Ray Diaz: first to use self-destruction Deterrance stratagy, and the H bombs he left are used in the snowfield project by Luo Ji.
Zhang Beihai: His Escapism leads to the new civilization, and the birth of it, the dark campaign, is a second verification experiment (beside the curse of Luo Ji) of the dark forest theory.
Bill: his mental sealed soldiers lead to the reinforcement future project being waken up and used by the international fleet, helping Zhang's escape along with other 4 ships, for Blue Space to have enough resouces to reach their destination.
Everybody is a necessary piece in the puzzle, which is why the whole story is so perfect.
They should have given zhang beihai some more time and show us the galatic civ rather then letting that chen xin escape
I see it as a satire on humankind, once the civilization developed to a certain level and the focus shifted from survival needs to emotional needs (Maslow’s hierarchy) , Cheng Xin (or whoever holds these humanity values) would inevitably be elected as the leader. The human knows for a fact that she wouldn’t mutually destruct Earth and Trisoloarias, and that’s why she replaces Luoji. It’s sad to see from our perspective, but it’s logical according to the societal development delineated in the book.
@@lianewilson4217 its same as how world see dictators
@@lianewilson4217 It's a great point to view it on the Maslow theory! Never thought about that
Is the dark forest theory really the writers invention? does it not stem from the fermi paradox originally? with several variations possible? is this part of theory really as recent as 2008?
The Dark Forest theory was maded as possible solution to the Fermi Paradox.
Fermi paradox was meant to be a thought provoking question, it started with a "why" and ended with a question mark, if offered no hypothesis
@@leefster1 i the meantime i happened to ask this and got an answer, the dark forest hypothesis is not new nor is it from this chinese author. I can dig up the first example of dark forest inspired scifi if u wish
@@ZionistWorldOrder to be honest the so called dark forest theory isn't really so out of the norm , I am not surprised many people can come up something similar or more serious ones at leisure. But I am curious why are you so dead set at painting the author as a mere copier, are you so insecure that you have to be part of a "superior race" to feel comfortable? Do you have nothing worthy to be proud of yourself?
The term was invented earlier and Liu didn't make it. The specific theory was set by him.
How a sophon exactly works in still over my head--can someone please explain?
They unfolded a proton into 3 dimensions and etched a computer on its surface, programmed it with some sweet AI (I think) then packed it all up again. And then they used quantum entanglement to be able to send information to and from it in real time. Doesn't really hold up to scrutiny scientifically but its a cool idea!
Have you finished deaths end yet?
Have you read Redemption of Time ? Fan fiction approved and recognized by the author. It tied a lot of loose ends and it was far out.
I really enjoyed it. I’m glad I read through the original trilogy a couple of times first but yeah it was a great addition.
Oh wow thanks Gona look it up
@@dom0 u won’t regret it. It was crazy
have you finished reading the death's end i really want you can make a video on it.
It will be the first book I start reading in 2023. Unfortunately I do not have time to review books like I did when I started the channel, but I will make one for Death's End when I finally get to it. (Hoping to be done it by the end of January if I can get through all my current books).
@@erictheread9409loved your reviews for these books, looking forward to the grand finale! The Netflix series are coming out in Jan 2024, I’m sure these books will be discussed more and more. Thanks for the great videos!
@@grayspoon7607 thank you! After a long hiatus, I'm editing the review for it now. Should be out later this week.
hi eric, why u stop posting videos?
they say that there is a 5th Wallfacer, an unofficial one, that was Zhang Beihai
I still don’t understand the purpose and consequences of the cast spell, can someone explain it ?
The "spell" was just a message sent out into the universe at the speed of light highlighting/revealing the location of the star the spell was cast on
. In the Dark Forest a civilization's best chance of survival is to either hide from or destroy any other space civilizations.
The star system being destroyed 51 years later showed there was a 3rd civilization nearby in the galaxy that observed the spell, with the capability to destroy an entire star with 1 "photoid" and the willingness to do so, to any perceived sign of intelligence.
Earth could reveal the location of Trisolaris to this 3rd party but by doing so they would be revealing themselves as well because of how close the 2 stars are. MAD (Mutually Assured Destruction)
Its sending cordinate of the planet, 100 years later boom the planet gone, so luo ji dark forest theory was proven right
这是一场验证猜想的实验，想知道一个星球位置的暴露是否会引来致命的打击。结果是肯定的，也就是说黑暗森林的猜想是正确的。
Cast spell was a way of Luo Ji proving Dark Forest theory. When the signal was emitted it reached another alien civilization who destroyed the star system(more than 50 light years away from Earth). "Spell"( signal that encoded an image of a star system for which aliens thought the signal was emitted from) consequence was destruction of that star system.
He posted the location of a planet to the universe to check if the dark forest theory was correct. Following the theory, some other civilization would attack the planet, and it did, the planet was destroyed.
Cixin Liu would not be happy to see you cut the clip of president Xi talking. LMAO
💧
Really getting into this series so far, realism prevails if aliens were coming we would have plenty of time to mount a great defence easy far ahead of time, an alien invasion would probably fail in reality, we see this situation in the books, humanity essential dedicating everything to build a defence before the Trisolarians arrive. Forget garbage like Stargate, Star Trek etc, choose realistic sci-fi
Except the trisoalrans have a much greater understanding of physics which the humans due to whats happening can't catch up on. The humans 200 years in the future have much better tech but it's all based on what we already know. Which is why the droplet is so......well you know
if you're going to review something, dont hold back. If keep on saying I wont spoil that or this. I am here for the spoilers
Do you train BJJ?
I do! I'm a black belt who runs an academy full time which is one of the reasons why I stopped uploading videos once my gym reopened post-lockdowns (Canada). Difficult to keep up between the business, competing, writing my own books, and my family lol.
@@erictheread9409 , really nice! Do you have a BJJ channel?
Eric The Read, did you not read Death’s End yet? I’m looking for your review!
I did finally finish Death's End. I recorded a review but was so out of practice it was horrible. I haven't made another attempt since but since this series has been the most popular on my channel, I will make a video for it. Hopefully next week. Sorry 😔
For what it's worth, it had my least favourite characters but the most mind bending conclusions. I hope I can do it justice.
No worries! Totally fair. Just really enjoyed your other reviews. Looking forward to the next one. 🙂 Thanks for getting back to me!
Wow you are so handsome
sofa
10:19 - idk I didnt really like Behai's storyline, I felt it so unnecessary
Nooo, him buying the meteors and stuff was so cool
Loved dark forest, couldn't stand third book, main character was mary sue without the even the unearned competence. People kept giving her responsibility and praise despite every decision making things worse.
We can’t even overcome Putin and Trump…
C in Chinese is pronounced as ts in English, so ci is like tsi, not si. You've got to the review of his second book and is still pronouncing his name wrong. I was impressed with your review of the first book. With the review of the second book, I think you are trying a bit too hard. Look forward to your thought on the third book.
Thanks for the pronunciation tip. Can't expect me to get them all in a language that is notoriously difficult for an English speaker. Hope to get back to reviewing one day. Looking forward to the third book.
You know what's amazing about this book? The plot is actually playing out right now with the Ukraine crisis. We're pretty doomed.
Problems with the trilogy:
Survival is not everything and morality is not irrational hubris. If you are an evil psychopath, you will die in an electric chair or on a battlefield. Immorality is not a survival mechanism.
We can find a Kardashev level III (K3) civilization in a galaxy a million light years (lys) away. We can find a K2 up to thousands of lys away. A Dyson swarm around a star radiates heat but not light, so it is a noticeable hot, blind spot in space. The forest is not dark and we can all see each other. An alien race could arrive in the solar system, make a K2 Dyson swarm out of every planet but Earth and we would still exist. A billion billion aliens could live here and ignore us the way you ignore that bird's nest on your porch. If the psychotic leaders of an advanced race decided to destroy every other race, then their own citizens would stop them. See above.
A sophon is supposed to be a mini-TARDIS (it's bigger on the inside!). A proton is almost a point. Its three dimensions each approximate zero in size. So the extra eight compacted dimensions curled around those three dimensions would each approach zero too. Uncompacting these dimensions would not create an object the diameter of a planet. Also, a quantum computer is not a computer made of quantum particles.
Rather than build an enormous invasion fleet, the Trisolarans could urbanize their planet (Ecumenopolis), walling out the effects of their stars with a roof of solar panels.
aahhh the glorious mix of futurism with the outdated concepts of the 50s-60s like dyson spheres and city planets collecting solar power, sounds like an episode of that guy with the speech and imagination impediment whats his name
@@ZionistWorldOrder I have no idea who you mean, but here is a question I am sure you can answer. What is the word that starts with "D" and ends with "ickhead"?
@@archlittle6067 no no his name started with an isaac, isaac arthur it is hahahaa. That doenst ring a bell?
If a civilization had the technology to uncompact, e.i. blow a proton up to the size of a planet, I don't see why they would need to travel for 400 years or that distance to invade us. In that time they could stay in space around their system and build themselves a new home, or just stay in space in some sort of mega-structure, or just as easily find some other uninhabited planet to inhabit.
@@allanburgess7171 Agreed. In 400 years we would be a type II Kardashev civilization. The books are ridiculous.