Riese & Müller Supercharger - long-term review update
Vložit
- čas přidán 3. 07. 2024
- I reviewed the Riese & Mueller Supercharger 2 back in november 2020, and it's still the most-viewed video on this channel. Clearly, this is a dream bike for many people, and rightly so! But how does it perform in the long term? What should you know before pulling the trigger? And what's with the cast in the thumbnail? Watch to find out!
00:00 - Intro
00:46 - The Rohloff hub
01:48 - A good bike mechanic
02:29 - The front rack
03:36 - Don't fall
05:13 - Customising the control scheme
05:33 - The charging port cover
---------
Filmed with (affiliate links)
- DJI Mini 3 Pro (☠️ during the making of this video 😭): amzn.to/3NhiXKU
- Sony A7IV: amzn.to/329AyCi
- Sony 35mm f1.8: amzn.to/3DeUnW9 - Krátké a kreslené filmy
I have had a R&M Multicharger Touring package (derailleur & double batteries) for 4 years and ride it constantly. I have about 9500 on the clock. The only issues I've encountered are due to overloading the bike because I weight 320 lbs and anything I carry puts me over spec. I am about to install my third rear wheel rim I found that an old Novaro rear trunk bag worked perfectly on on the front rack to carry incidentals. I also found that the front rack is perfect for take out food containers when used with a cargo net. I have taken the bike on several multiple day tours and it has never failed me.
Got a Superdelite Rohloff, after two years of thinking about it.
It’s great. I really love it
Thanks for the great video. I recently rode my R&M Super Charger 2 HS with the Rohloff 500/14 and Gates belt across America, covering some 7,500 km in 4 months. Like your bike, I modified the standard configuration. I added a heavy-duty front suspension fork, a new suspension seat post, and a suspension handlebar. I completely agree with you about the front rack - it's not very practical unless you have an adapter. To solve this issue, I used a MIK adaptor plate on the front rack. I attached a drone case using a MIK plate during the cross-country bike ride to the front rack and that worked well. For city riding (since I am back home), I use a basket with a MIK plate that easily clicks onto the front rack. You may want to check this out as the R&M rack bag is less versatile.
I also upgraded to Schwalbe e-bike cargo tires for extra puncture resistance and weight-bearing capacity and had a third 625 wh battery and a second battery charger. I also changed the handlebar grips, and bell and added a water bladder to the frame as the R&M water bottles are not practical for long-distance cycling. I also added a B17 saddle of Brooks and a right mirror. I had no problems with cadence, so kept the drive system as it is.
The e-bike performed extremely well, and in my opinion, there is no better electric touring bike with a Bosch dual 625 battery system, Rohloff, and belt drive. I am not sure if another exists. But it took some rebuilding and fine-tuning to configure the e-bike for a cross-country (or cross-continent) tour.
This bike is a computer on two wheels. As you say in the video, make sure you have access to an authorized Bosch and Rohloff dealer. Serious problems with this e-bike cannot be fixed at home. My belt broke after some 10,000 KM on the bike, so yes, they wear out after a while.
Wow, that's quite the trip! Very interesting to read about your modifications. Adding a quick-release system to the front rack sounds like an ideal solution (though I'm not quite sold on the MIK system, I feel the 'keys' are a little too easy to lose).
@@BelgianHikers Yes, these "keys' are easy to lose. I just release the MIK plate by pressing the release button with my index finger as I have lost the "keys" to my MIK plates. MIK is also the system used by R&M for the rear rack of the Super Charger, so you only have one solution to worry about. I forgot; I also changed the pedals :) All the best. Gregory.
Thank you so much for this great update. I do not only admire your well-thought feedback on the bike, but also the great and calm way you do the video! Hope your Shoulder and Thumb got well!
Thanks for the kind words!
Very informative video, and you have a really great presenting style!
Very underrated channel. Sleek content, great editing, subtle minimal graphics, confidence, and smooth storytelling. Love your channel.
Thanks man, that means a lot!
Excellent review. One that should drive potential buyers to make the good choice ! It’s easy to find now second hand R&M bikes with the Rohlhoff system at 35 % off the dealer price.
Good video nice advise 👍🏻
It's the first time i watch your video's,my charger 3 is my second r&m my first was a 11y old culture hybrid bosch classic enviolo with 50000 km,but the frame broke, the charger got a enviolo too, and i am very happy with that,i dont see the problem with the charging port,you just have to now how to use it😉.i drive 40 km every day,leuven waver.even with snow,
Wow, that Culture Hybrid is a funky looking bike, seems like some of its DNA lives on in the Superdelite. Leuven-Waver seems like it could be a nice and green trajectory.
Thank you for this. I love the colour of the supercharger, and will buy the Rohloff version sometime in 2023 (just waiting to have a spare $10k…). In truth I don’t need the bike, the Charger4 would be absolutely fine - I just think the super version is more aesthetically pleasing, and the mustard option is cool.
So sorry about your thumb and shoulder man! That’s a real pain, but I do hope you’re all healed up by now and back out there.
Take good care. Ride safe. Kindest regards, Nigel
Totally agree on the aesthetics, this is R&M’s best looking bike. I’m curious if they’ll have something new in store for 2023. Maybe saving up will have the added benefit of getting an updated model.
I loved this video. Your commentary was very descriptive and knowledgeable. Favourite one of the SC2. Blown away by the second one though. What a treat! I am waiting for my own Rohloff version to arrive next week. I’m aware of few women who buy this so I must be in the minority. Sorry to hear about the accident. Yes, these things do happen unexpectedly. Hope you are recovered now. My husband also agreed with you on the price of the rohloff but I had looked at all the reviews and it seemed the way to go. Do you wish you had got it in the beginning? Keep up the great work. Your delivery is great. Thank you.
I would probably have gone for the Rohloff if I could go back (though the sticker shock on the increased prices is very real). That said, I have the luxury of being able to charge at work and I'm usually on tour or sport mode, so I don't have range anxiety or the need for more support/speed. But it does feel like the Rohloff is the best way to use this bike to its full potential.
I was fortunate enough to have an R&M dealer just a few blocks from me (I rode my bike there lol). So I was able to test ride bikes with both the Rohloff and the Enviolo. The Enviolo was nice... but after riding both, I went with the Rohloff. Lower low gear, higher high gear, and really solid-feeling. I made sure to try the Enviolo, because the Rohloff is now $1,550 more here in the US. But yeah, it's worth it.
Wow, $1550! Better put some miles on it to make it worth the investment then 😉
@@BelgianHikers Oh, I'm gonna run that thing into the ground! lol
I bought this type of bike recently (second-hand). I'm also from Belgium.
It's my first Speed Pedelec, I was unsure (and somewhat still am) if it's something for me. I do absolutely enjoy riding the bike, and got some more insight into the bike from this video, thanks!
I've been unlucky, had the inner tyre replaced for the second time in 2 months on Wednesday and had to take my car to work on Friday (so only rode it on Thursday) because the tyre was flat again (no damage to the outer tyre). Hopefully I found a good mechanic now, it's a shop that sells R&M bikes and knows these bikes.
I'm still quite afraid for accidents and falling. Not due to my mistake, as I'm careful, but I've had a few close calls from cars and especially other bikers, it's insane how inattentive some people are, especially on roads where it's already dangerous enough to ride a bike. At least I'm avoiding rainy/"bad" weather for now and just play it safe.
Thank you for your comments. My SuperCharger2 should be arriving in a few weeks. Innertube? I plan to set mine up as tubeless with Tannus Armor Inserts. I installed them on my touring bicycle several years ago and never have had a flat since. In fact, I wore out my 2.3 Schwalbe tires before having another flat. I live in SW Texas where there are a lot thorns and burrs. I would suggest that you also setup your tires as tubeless.
Thank you for second review. Looking for something I could ride as daily transportation once in Belgium. Within 30 km/h radius from work at Liege, Seraing. I have done lots of reading on speed pedelec in Belgium and it seems to be safer for newcomer to use 25kph version. Which gives for cargo weight capacity as well.
Just ordered the R&M Superderlite. Got a good discount from the dealer, over 700 euro for the Vario GT HS. looking forward to it!
Sounds like a great deal!
I have a 2021 Superdelite, 12000 km. Real unstoppable tank of a touring bike. I get 200-250 km from the batteries normally. The fast charger that came with it gives 2 hr cycling during a 1 hr food break. Still plenty of thread on the original tires.
Maintenance so far: oil changes in the Rohloff. Now the Gates carbon belt is starting to crack so going to replace it.
Had one slow puncture that I fixed with Joes noflats inner tube sealant.
Crank arms may hit the ground if suspension is low on air. I have to inflafe the rear air suspension every 500 km now.
Rohloff cannot change under load which is annoying on undulating terrain.
Unstoppable tank sounds about right 😄 I've only ridden the Superdelite briefly when shopping for my Supercharger in 2020, maybe I should ask to test one out again at the shop to compare. Can't really remember how much difference that rear suspension makes. Two years and 12000km seems a bit quick for the belt to wear out, no? Even if other systems allow you to change the gears under load, I'm not sure that's ever a good idea honestly.
Today I would buy a Supercharger and add a suspension seat post. Less complexity and less weight. Although my rear rack is now suspended, the high rear rack makes mounting and demounting the bike a bit cumbersome.
I think the belt wears faster because of the extra outward bend on the superdelite. Your Supercharger is much more straight.
They do attatch the light on the rack. I ordered a multicharger. Unluckily it was the low step and not the high model I ordered but it did have the light fixed on the rack. There still was a mount to fix it up to the bar when the rack is removed.
Thanks, that’s good to know! Great that they leave the option to mount it on the bar as well, because the light on the rack is better functionally, but not everyone will prefer the look.
Hoi, sind 18-01-2024 Super charger 3 HS Rohlof. Heb er nu 1450 Km opzitten.
Sinds 2016 met 2 e Hands S-Pedelecs naar het werk. 25 Km enkele rit.
Km teller liep 4Kmh voor. Na 2 keer nieuw instellen geeft hij 1,5 Kmh te veel aan.
Fietste met Raleigh met alfine 11 naaf en impulse 2.0 motor sneller.
Ondersteuning voor een S-Pedelec Matig.
Hij lijkt gemaakt om 32 to 34 te gaan vanaf 36 tot 40 moet je echt meer doen. Snelheden van 41 tot 43 met wind in der rug en dan zit ik liever op mij Bianchi racefiets dat gaat beter,
Met een beetje tegen wind ga je 32 Kmh met 70 omwenteling. om 36 op de teller te krijgen trap je je in het zweet en dat was bij de andere niet zo. Update van Boschmotor bracht geen verbetering
Bij KM stand 950 ging de riem kapot. Eerste voelde het aan als een oude keting met schlechte tandwielen die af en toe doortrapt, en binnen 8 km was die riem afgerafeld en gleed hij door, Kreeg een nieuwe . Pech
Een nieuwe fiets van 8500 die ik altijd in stand turbo moet hebben bij een beetje tegen wind. Dat had ik niet verwacht.
Het licht, super.
Door een weg opbreking moest ik 3 weken 400 meter door het zand, en dat gaat met deze perfect.
Bij het 2 km gravelpad voel ik me nu ook veel beter.
Door de dubbele akku hoef ik niet meer op het werk te laden.
Had op de andere fietsen de zelfde verende zadelpen gezet als op de R&M, best wel lekker.
De Impulse motor moest vaker in de reparatie. de eerste na 4000 KM , tussen 8 en 12 duizend was die aan rparatie toe. Bouwde zelf in en uit. Met de Bosch motor hopelijk niet. Deze trekt beter op , maar gaat niet vergenoeg door. Als je 32/34 Kmh genoeg vind is dit jouw perfekte fiets.
De elektronische schakeling vind ik fijn. Als je stopt schakelt hij bij mij op verzoek in versnelling 8, was 5 maar dan trap je gelijk in het niet op het vlakland waar ik woon.
Afwerking en matriall top.
Je geeft de perfecte samenvatting denk ik: "Als je 32/34 per uur genoeg vind is dit de ideale fiets." De vraag is of mensen daar zo'n dure fiets voor kopen. Benieuwd wanneer Bosch een meer pendelvriendelijke motor uitbrengt.
Top video. Felicitaties. Rij sinds een 5 tal jaar R&M speed pedelecs. Kan me helemaal vinden in jouw review. Knap. En wat dat vallen betreft, ook daar sla je de nagel op de kop. Er bestaan immers maar 2 soorten SP rijders, zij die reeds gevallen zijn, en zij die gaan vallen :-) (Net hersteld van een dubbele sleutelbeenbreuk). Vele groeten
Ouch, dat klinkt pijnlijk! Ik heb me voorgenomen niet meer met regenweer te fietsen. Hopelijk kan dat mijn valfrequentie wat verlagen… 😅
I bought a Multicharger GT light; after going through all the upgrade options that were available, i settled for the most entry level option in the entire range because the derailleur version was the most easy to maintain and fix, most cost effective in my books and had enough gearing for me to use in SouthEast England.
I heard someone defend the derailleur recently with "if it's good enough for the Tour de France, it's good enough for me". Hard to argue with that. 😂
I also bought the lowest on the line up but it's the 2023 smart system multicharger family. Funny that it actually was cheaper because it comes with the kid accessories as standard compared to the older model. Both were on sale and the new one was still cheaper. But I am still waiting for it to arrive.
Thanks for the great review. Nice, just like the previous one you did. I wonder: do you think the SC2 would be
"good enough" to do some relatively easy MTB-trails in Holland with my 4
year old son on his small MTB? He's only going very slowly and is still
learning, as am i. If this bike could get me 2-3 years of easy
MTB-trails with my son, going slowly and just having fun, that would be
great. I would not have to buy a separate MTB. Then, if he gets serious
after a few years, i can always buy an extra dedicated MTB for myself.
Looking forward to your reply!
I've only done a proper MTB trail with the Supercharger once. It wasn't a particularly fun experience, but that was mostly due to the fact that the Schwalbe Moto X-tires that come standard weren't grippy enough for the trail. If you use the right tires, your main issue will likely be the weight. This is not a nimble bike at all. But simple forest trails at low speed? Sure. Go for a test drive and try it out!
Hi. I didn't understand what type of cover did they replace free of charge for you? Thx
The charging port had a rubber cover that closed it against rain and dirt, but it was very hard to close (and easy to lose). They've replaced it with a plastic version that is ok but usually breaks at the hinge after a couple of months. I always get a new one when I bring it in to service it every 2000kms.
Ik sta op het punt om een speedpedelec aan te schaffen, ik twijfel momenteel tussen de supercharger met Rolhof en de Stromer ST3 Pinion, heb je hier toevallig al ooit mee gereden en welke zou je aanraden?
Helaas nooit op een Stromer gereden. Wat mij op de weg wel opvalt is dat fietsers op een R&M (of andere Bosch CX-motor) meestal een fietspak aanhebben en Stromer-rijders meestal gewone kleren. Ze gaan gemiddeld ook sneller aan een lagere trapfrequentie. Dus als je wat verder moet rijden om op het werk te geraken en daar zsm wil aankomen zonder te douchen dan is Stromer zeker een test waard. Maar gezien de hoge prijzen zou ik ze sowieso allebei testen.
Ik heb de reacties gelezen. Ik was laatst in de Ardennen met de E speed 45 km per uur (riem aandrijving) en haalde ook maar maximaal 16 km per uur berg op. Bergje was 18 % stijgen. Ook dan houd je het niet lang vol en trap je tegen een muur. Ik moest mijn snelheid verlagen om normaal door te kunnen. Ik ben een getrainde fietser. Ook andere fietsers op een ondersteunende fiets reden mij voorbij. Sommige deden wel een praatje, en zeiden, kan dat ding niet harder en langer met 85 NM onderin.
Die 16 km per uur vind ik wel heel laag moet ik zeggen. De meeste van die andere fietsers moeten toch ook een vergelijkbare Bosch motor gehad hebben? Ik zou er toch eens naar laten kijken.
@@BelgianHikers Heb ik gedaan. Ik heb de app gedownload waarmee je de power kunt beïnvloeden. Ook dat heeft geen effect. Jammer van deze app, die niet werkt. Als je hem dan reset heb je helemaal geen ondersteuning meer.
Zou je voor puur woon-werkverkeer (30km enkel op fietsostrade/naast kanaal) de supercharger adviseren boven hun andere modellen? 🤔 Of adviseer je hiervoor resoluut dit model?
Als je kan opladen op het werk zou een enkele batterij ook wel kunnen volstaan vermoed ik. Maar 60km ga je in het slechtst mogelijke scenario niet halen (turbo stand + winter + wind tegen + batterij enkele jaren oud).
En ook: als je wel kan opladen op het werk heb je met een grotere batterij de mogelijkheid om bijna altijd op 🔋 van het werk te rijden (met een halfvolle batterij heen en een volle terug). Dat spaart ook weer wat uit.
I am about to order a Charger 4 with Enviolo and your comment got me thinking. How much does it shorten the battery life? Do you think that system has other drawbacks? I cannot afford the Rolloff though since the bike is very expensive. Thank you!
I think I read somewhere that the difference is about 8%. Whether that’s a big deal depends on how you use the bike. Just make sure you have enough range in the worst case scenario (head wind, cold battery, max support, etc). The main other drawback is cadence, but that’s only an issue at higher speeds. I’m not sure if the Rohloff versions command higher prices on the second hand market. If so, that might be a factor in the decision as well.
We don't have the choice on the Charger 4 anyway, there is no Rohloff version yet, neither is there a HS version. I ordered a Charger 4 GT Vario months ago, and it's supposed to arrive in 2 weeks. Yeah, I would probably have preferred the Rohloff too, but I went with the Charger 4 so that I'm at least in the new Bosch ecosystem instead of in the outgoing one.
@@raftermanhoward1883 Same opinion here :-)
The bike has great specs and so the Rollov shifter is likely the way to go.. Yet Is there a USB plug on that one to recharge your phone on the go? And speaking of the rollov, does it work without battery power? I don't suppose so.. Great video thanks for that 👍
The Rohloff doesn't work without battery power, but the bike reserves the last couple of % power for shifting (as well as for lights and display). If you run out completely, you're stuck in your current gear. There's no usb plug, which feels like an oversight. I'm hoping that the next generation of bikes allows you to charge phones and other stuff, and also allows for (slow) charging the battery on a standard phone charger in emergencies. 🤞🏻
@@BelgianHikers Oh good to know, smart machine right? Thanks for the quick answer 👍
Again a question, since i rewatched your excellent reviews a few times now. I've just sold my Stromer ST3 en i'm looking for more comfort, so switching to R&M. I was wondering: with the Enviolo and the High Speed version, until what speed is the cadence still viable and nice? I would like to be cruising @ 35-38 max, do you have any indication of the RPM of the Enviolo on that speed? At what speed does it become uncomfortable, due to the having to peddle too quickly? Above 40? Thanks!
For me personally: I'd say everything under 35km/h is perfectly fine. If you're not planning on going faster than 38km/h cadence should probably not be your main concern. But comfort is very personal obviously. So by all means go and do some thorough testing before you buy! Also, I'm curious: what kind of comfort did the ST3 lack?
@@BelgianHikers Thanks for the reply, those are some good pointers. I appreciate you taking the time! For me, the Stromer is all about speed. The fork is very stiff (yes, you can get a front suspension for 1.000 euro) and the posture on the bike is pretty spartan. Of course, this all can be changed, but somehow i feel that is not what the bike is for. Plus: maintenance of the derailleur, dirty/smudgy pants etc. So i'd gather go a bit slower and move in more comfort. Also: things get increasingly dangerous above 40km/h, so going 33-35-37 somehow feels better as a young dad.
@@BelgianHikers i tried the sc2 Enviolo last friday and noticed exactly what you described: the cadence became too fast above 35km/h. My dealer told me there was nothing they could do. You mention that you changed the rear ring. What exactly does this mean? What changed? And even more importantly: what is the cadence like now? Can you now drive 40 with a decent cadence? of even 43? And what have you lost? Some light gearing? And is this actually an issue when riding on flat terrain like Belgium and Holland?
Hope you can give me some pointers! Thanks!
@@Stijnemansstijnemans My rear sprocket (24T) was replaced with a Gates 22T sprocket (CDXR22EN-AM). There were some issues with the installation so I'm not sure it was an upgrade. Based on a smallish sample of commutes before and after the change, my cadence lowered from an average of 77 to 73. So not much of an improvement. The Rohloff's not an option? That should give you a better cadence right out of the box.
@@BelgianHikers Yeah the Rohloff is an option but it is crazy expensive, at least 1500 euro's more. Did you have major issues replacing it? It seems you only got an about 5% improvement in cadence. This is not much. Was it expensive? Probably a big job for the mechanic?
What did you mean when saying, cover for charge port? Is it not waterproof?
There's a rubber flap that covers the charging port that comes off easily and is very hard to reattach (see my original review at 9:39). They may have replaced it on the 2022 version. I usually leave the port uncovered. Haven't had any issues with water seeping in so far. 🤞🏻
@@BelgianHikers tnx
Ik rij al 3.5 jaar een supercharger SP en er staat nu 25.000 km op de teller en ga hem inruilen voor een nieuwe met Rohloff en 1250 accu. Superfiets die met een aanhanger nog steeds power genoeg heeft. De Nuvinci is met nat weer niet te draaien en ook het oplaaddopje is een ramp😢
Benieuwd naar je ervaringen! Ben je tevreden met wat je er tweedehands nog voor krijgt?
Netjes van jou dat je dit verteld. Riese Muller maakt namelijk reclame voor de E- speed dat deze 45 km per uur haalt. Dat klopt enigszins wel, maar die 45 km per uur houd niemand vol. Die kracht krijg je niet lang rond en dat is toch jammer. En 40 km is ook geen optie. Ik heb ervaring met de E speed van Riese muller, maar 35 km per uur is redelijk te halen, maar zelfs daarvoor moet je getraind zijn. In de Bergen met E-speed 85 NM onderin is ook een drama in de power stand. De meeste oma's op een Sparta of Cannondale bijvoorbeeld rijden mij eruit. Jammer van deze fiets. Wat vind je van deze reactie zelf.
Ik ben zeker niet negatief over de fiets hoor, en in turbo lukt 45km per uur ook wel op een goed aangelegde rechte weg. Maar zoals je zegt: niet heel lang, en de trapsnelheid ligt op dat moment behoorlijk hoog. Riese & Muller werkt met bestaande onderdelen van grote spelers (Bosch, Rohloff, Enviolo etc.) en ik ben ervan overtuigd dat ze daar heel kwalitatieve fietsen mee bouwen, aangezien ze overal de beste systemen kunnen shoppen. Maar dan zit je ook vast aan de beperkingen ervan, in dit geval van de Bosch CX4. Een concurrent als Stromer bouwt meer zelf, wat voordelen heeft maar ook nadelen...
" A lot of maintenance" please explain.
R&M’s warranty requires checkups every 2000km. For someone commuting 25km to work, four days a week, that’s every 10 weeks. I don’t mean to imply that they inherently need more maintenance than other bikes.
I did not understand why it is more dangerous to fall with that bike. Is it because it is heavy?
I don't mean to imply that this is a more dangerous bike than other fast e-bikes: it's very stable and the brakes are really quite good. On dry roads in rural settings I have zero issues. But I do think that especially when you ride in a city, they are inherently risky. The fact that you are faster and more nimble than a car creates dangerous situations because people don't anticipate your speed. The braking distance on such a fast heavy bike is longer than you might expect, and it's easy to lose traction and start sliding. Wet roads aggravate this, which is why I've stopped commuting in rainy conditions. But maybe I'm just a lousy cyclist, who knows... 🤷🏼♂️
@@BelgianHikers i understand and agree. :-) Thank you for clarification!
Aah de dreef achter Montfort?
Een kenner! 😄
volgende week wordt mijne geleverd, week 23 ... hoop ik .... lang genoeg gewacht ... (met Rohloff) ...
Vijf maanden wachten? 😲
@@BelgianHikers aan +3 volle maanden zitten we al ... hopelijk half juni ...
Ah ja, week 23 van het jaar uiteraard, niet van de bestelling 🤦🏼♂️😅. Mooi op tijd voor de zomer. Geniet ervan!
@@BelgianHikers EINDELIJK .... vandaag, zaterdag 9 juni, gaan ophalen ... Rohloff is echt wel OK.
correctie, zaterdag 9 JULI ...
that is one really handsome guy on the bike! But I see he does not wear his helmet!
Yeah, you know how those models are. Probably didn't want to mess up his hair. 🤷🏼♂️
Uit het land van Merkcx en Tom Boone komt een review van ….een e bike. 😔😁
Haha, touché 😅
What a shite bike lol
If you're wondering....as you mentioned.....of why people watch videos it's because...............they want accurate information without ANY blabbering on about crap that NO ONE cares about.
You NEED to get more to the point and stay there.
Not blah blah blah blah blah.
You're welcome.......
Oh and by the way I couldn't watch more than 1:50 and determined NO VALUE so thumbs DOWN and no SUB.
Done