The 3HP Mini Lathe..... It Scares Me
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- čas přidán 6. 07. 2024
- G'day everyone,
In this video I will be following up on last weeks video where I added a 3HP 3 phase motor to my mini lathe. In the first half of the video I will answer a few questions I got regarding the lathe and the upgrade, and in the second half I will try and push the lathe to its limits.
0:00 - Into and answering questions regarding the lathe and the upgrade
8:48 - Lets Push This Lathe to the Limit
11:38 - 4140, Stainless Steel and Titanium
#machining #lathe #minilathe - Věda a technologie
Link to the previous video where I do the upgrades: czcams.com/video/cm4OoQRWRW8/video.html
This is indeed impressive. 3HP is the business to be sure. But what’s going on with your centre at 12:43? It looks like it’s wobbling excessively.
Also, you should get better results with a coolant feed.
You got a better surface finish on the titanium than what we tend to get at our workshop with proper CNC machines 😂
Maybe mini lathes are the production workhorses that you have been needing :)
@@artisanmakes 🤯
This is the shop equivalent of maxing out your starter weapon
Edit: holy cow, that smoke on the HS is unsettling! You were not kidding when you said that heat buildup was a problem.
The more I watch these mini/small lathe mods, the more I want just keep saving my money for a real lathe.
Haha yes it's really strange people offer that much money, time and effort trying to make their cheap machine usable. 😅
Good luck to you man, and I hope you get your real 14x40 or similar. These toy lathes will just frustrate you and make you wish you had a real one.
So, let's see we pay $400-$600 for the lathe then we spend another $3,000-$5,000 in time and materials to still end up with a 7x X lathe. They are what they are, a SMALL lathe to make SMALL parts. If you need a lathe to make larger parts or want to go faster choke up the dough and get a more suitable lathe that doesn't need a bazillion upgrades just to make chips.
As they say don't be penny wise and dollar foolish.
@@mikemike4737 do you really think I'm jealous?? 😅😅
Also, for 1500$ you could get a good, used machine.. working from the start..
@@OmeMachining Not in Australia you won't.
Nice work! The beauty of spending your own time, money, and effort to build your own vision, is that you don't owe anybody an explanation or justification.
Oh thank goodness you took another look at the wiring. That was my only concern watching the last video. Keep up the great work!
8:36 also: using an over-spec part in this case means it will plausibly last a lot longer since you won’t be pushing it, unlike smaller motors. Even if you only use 1HP, 3HP capacity has advantage.
this motor will definitly overlife this lathe but with one condition. He need some type of foam to cover air intake to the engine otherwise chips would just kill it from inside... :) I allready had to make that "upgrade" on my mx-750 becuse motor start to get weird noises, so opened it and there was a lot of chips inside, so I added foam and they just cant find way inside anymore :)
@@KenjiDevit looks like a tefc motor so it should be fine
@@KenjiDev wouldn't mesh work better?
yuuup duty cycle matters
The extra rotating mass of the motor will also help smooth running.
I'm thankful you're sorting all of this out and sharing it with us. Thank you.
Looks like a lot of wobble on the tailstock end, observed at about 12:55 into the video, but with this setup, I am half surprised the entire lathe doesn't explode! Really interesting video, thanks. You really put together good stuff and I appreciate it.
I have been wondering for a while if the rotating mass of the chuck etc. at the headstock end is not a big factor. Minilathes have so little mass in those tiny chucks. You do have a big motor, but belts stretch and slip, so under load, there will be speed variations. At the very least I would expect this to affect surface finish negatively. My dumb idea is to place a flywheel on the headstock, on the drive side (to balance the bearing load and get it out of the way). This should make use of the spinning momentum to power the bit through varying material. Of course, this negatively affects spin-up, and spin-down, but that seems a small price. Flywheels are cheap, they could even be conveniently shaped like a handwheel
Andy Philpotts-I was going to say the same thing. Whether the center joke was centered or the live center was showing that it’s got some play 🤷🏼♂️
Flywheels are good for storing energy over time and then releasing in a short period of time, or at some later time. Think of a hammer application or similar. For a continuous smooth output, like a lathe requires, the flywheel probably (sadly) won't add any power/energy/momentum benefits. I would like to see the experiment though!
spin up and down really doesnt matter much on a lathe however you gotta be really careful about balancing it or youll wreck bearings
Thats nothing i'd worry about. I took the part out of the lathe and didnt spend much time recentering it, hence the wobble
I like your channel. You've done some amazing projects with the equipment on hand. With all the upgrades and modifications you've done on your lathe you could have bought a bigger one. But with the youtube content you have created you're ahead of the game. Thanks for your great content.
"Authorities in Australia continue to investigate a mysterious explosion that leveled 15 city blocks. Early reports suggested that a hobby machinist had installed a 3hp motor on a Chinese mini-lathe but these reports were quickly dismissed as implausible. Casualty figures are still coming in, but miraculously no one has been reported killed. Please stay tuned for further developments."
made may day!
What you have done here is what is done on many CNC machines. VFDs do not give anywhere near full power at low speeds. In order to get torque at low speeds you can either fit a gearbox or a bigger motor. These days the latter is the cheapest option. So while you will never need 3hp at full speed, you will be glad of it when doing heavy turning at low speed. In industry when motors are run at low speeds, it is common to remove the fan fixed to the motor and replace it with one driven separately. I can't see any reason why you couldn't do this if it becomes necessary.
Going from 550w to 2200w is def pushing it. I got the Vevor Mx-something with 1100w. The motor seems to be giving the least problems, i.e everything else seems out of wack. This is where all your knowledge and mod vids comes in handy and inspirational. Every week I learn more about my machine.
Your classy returns on subs' comments/questions/scrutinizing says a lot about your character and I really enjoy your updates. Happy sub here :)
Ugh, just the name Vevor makes me shudder, what a nightmare that purchase was... 3 years ago I bought a Vevor MX-600 and that piece of utter shit was so worthless I haven't been able to make a single piece of work on it to this very day. The bed was so devastatingly bad (as much as 0,17 mm of variation in thickness along the bed), and god knows what else. Those a**holes from Vevor did everything they could to get out from underneath it too, I inmediately opened a complaint procedure, but I only had something like 24 or 48 hours time at some stage to respond to their offensive suggestion of getting a 10% discount (it was literally just scrap cast iron, in order to have it repaired I would have to spend €1500+ and thus better off buying a brand new one here in Western Europe), and that happened to be just over the Christmas holidays when I was unable to respond in time, so that finalised it and left me with that hunk of scrap iron.
Being a poor student at the time and unable to recouperate my €1050 I paid for the lathe, I was forced to repair the whole thing myself, all the while having no previous experience in metalworking whatsoever, so it's been a huge challenge to put it mildly. Several times it just became too much and I threw in the towel for a while, only to pick it up again some months later. Eventually I had read up on everything enough and done enough research to know what I needed to do in order to turn it into a usable, or actually even a good machine for its size. Sending the bed out to a company to grind the bed and lathe ways into spec would have cost me €1500-2000 depending on the company, which was way out of budget not to mention simply not worth it, so instead I resorted to hand scraping. Through a Dutch company which specialises in auctioning off company stock I managed to win the bid for a cast iron precision 1000 mm long camel back, which along with some dark blue oil paint and a roller made it possible to get all the ways back into spec. Originally I intended to hand scrape it, but during my research I found out about an alternative method, instead of hand scraping it uses a rotary tool with one of those carborundum grinding wheels. I gave it a try and it actually worked amazingly well, and with the added benefit of not really needing a lot of previous experience and skill to do it well like is the case with scraping. However it also gave a bad surface finish, much too course, so I tried the same but with sanding drums on my rotary tool instead, which gave very smooth results! At this moment I'm half way done, there are 6 surfaces which need to be brought into spec; the flat ways at the front and one at the back, the prisms at the front and one at the back, and the undersides at the front and at the back. Originally I had planned to exclusively use the rotary tool in combination with my camel back to bring the ways back into spec, but more recently after having made a set of my own carbide scrapers I have decided I will use the rotary tool to bring it approximately 95% into spec and the last 5% I'll finish by hand scraping, as that's much more preferrable on bed ways that need to retain lubrication.
From there on I still have a couple more things I need to do, like making sure all the dovetails and other important areas mate with each other nicely, that the headstock and tailstock are perfectly aligned with the bed and to each other, replace the deep grove headstock bearings for the set of tapered roller bearings I already bought, and a couple other small things which will improve the lathe. I intend to be finished in about another 6 months or so.
Looking forward to your next lathe upgrade!
Absolute madman. This is brilliant, I love it.
👍 For the algorithm.
All Hail the Algorithm .... superfastmatt.
Your wiring was what i would call a prototyping setup. Proof of concept. Didn't need to be completely safe. Just prove it could be done before doing proper wiring.
Love everything about this, keep up the great work fella 👍👍
Just bolted a 25mm thick plate to the bottom of my Sieg too, going to epoxy fill it soon as well. Thanks for the inspiration. Excellent stuff...
Tapered roller bearings should definitely be tough enough. Trains use them and so do most cars. I used to build them for a living. If they can handle a train they'll take care of your lathe just fine. Brand doesn't really matter. It's the design. Timken, Brenco and Koyo are typical brands and are pretty much interchangeable
I would have thought this to be the case
@10:41 -- holy crap the amount that tool was dragged downward by the forces, lol
Brilliant video as usual. I love what the lathe can do now. I need to perform some rigidity on my 9x20 so I can attempt cuts like that. Your channel inspired me to get into home machining. Thank you.
Very nice upgrade with the 3 hp motor.
I would have definitely thought that it would have over powered the lathe.
I am very impressed.
I have a Enco 12x36 with 1 1/2 hp.
Now I'm thinking a larger HP motor now, maybe a 3.0 hp.
Thanks for sharing.
I just subscribed to your channel.
Take care, Ed.
When it comes to horsepower on a lathe, too much is just enough. Good show of it!
4mm DOC is very impressive! Those are some satisfying chips. You could make bespoke steel wool for the hipsters.
The culmination of the small mods and the big motor is a bloody good lathe!
Good. I'm, now confident to proceed with installing such a motor on my Sherline.
Awesome upgrade keep rocking 😁
Hot, blue chips are a good thing and wanted! They're transporting the majority of the heat away from the work piece. Although cooling might be necessary sometimes, carbide and blue chips work like a charm the most times and are in fact desired. This is the reason to use carbide. It's heat resistant and can make huge cuts without melting the blade. Those chips you've shown look pretty fine to me. Just make sure that you don't stand in the way they're flighing. Have a look at the chip tray of some big, industrial machines - they're conveying blue shards of metal by the pound. just search youtube for "blue chips lathe" or "blue chips mill"
love the content m8 i'm facinated by al the 'creators' but your simple way of making videos and comment on things really is amazing. Keep up the good work! Hope one day you can buy a bigass lathe xD
that first 10 seconds literally made my jaw drop
Man I picked up a vevor 8" lathe at a good price. I can't wait to learn to turn with it and eventually follow your upgrade path.
Bigger chuck sounds like it will be a good add. You have the power now to get that extra mass moving.
3HP Motor Upgrade has to be the end-all be-all mini mill upgrade. You sir have finally did it, you broke the internet, no other upgrade is worthy. All mini lathe owners now bow down. The King is before us!😂
Using an oversized motor will help you with the cooling at low speed issue. Power ratings for electric motors normally indicate how much power they can produce without overheating, as that is usually the limiting factor. Running at slow speeds it won't have the full 3hp worth of cooling ability, but I don't think you will need the full cooling potential much of the time. Just having a larger thermal mass of such a big motor also means you can push it way outside of the cooling capacity for short bursts. I don't think you will have to worry much about overheating that thing.
it would be a good idea to make a quick guard for that drive belt
Looking great, love it
It's amazing how much work you can get out of a machine with proper setup and know how; rigidity, torque, tool geometry, etc. I have a nicely tuned south bend 9" with 3/4hp motor that I can use to easily take .250" off the diameter (.125 DOC) of steel stock. I also have a south bend heavy 10 that I've never properly tuned as it was in "good enough" condition when I bought it and I just wanted to put it to work, and it struggles with .100" diameter cuts even though it's a MUCH heavier machine than the 9".
Great upgrade! Over kill with the motor helps keep it cool. Coolant is the next must have. I have concerns with the bearings, they will shed the grease much quicker with the side load of deeper cuts. Be nice to oil bath them somehow.
Thanks for sharing
Cheers
Tapered roller bearings can really tolerate a lot of force, no issues there. My lathe came with those from the factory, but I noticed that it's not so nice that there's no seal in front of it. On mine it sounds like it's already grinding down on some small chips that got in there.
Tapered roller bearing hold the wheels on cars and can handle the dynamic loads created by turning and slamming large weight over pot holes and the grease lasts for years. I think this setup is fine.
@@cwilliams4227 Yeah but I think Ricks point was the grease can get flung off. Cars used sealed roller bearings, so the grease is retained inside.
Die Verdrahtung des Motors ist perfekt 😊
Awesome little lathe, i am jealous!
Very good conclusions, as far as i can tell. Not so many people processing titanium on a minilathe with high polished inserts for aluminium with your stunning result.
I really like your videos, Thank you!
Nice to see that you sorted the wiring.
With heavier cuts you probably would get better finish wiht inserts with larger nose radius. Larger nose radius means more power is needed to cut, but then again you got more power now.
Good job on your lathe upgrades, you're really getting some good work out of that little lathe! In a few of the videos I've seen there were some times that I had some safety concerns - in general it seems like your RPM is a little high for the material, though that may be necessary due to lack of machine rigidity. Just be wary of the possibility of ejecting parts from the chuck. On one of the other videos you can clearly see the work slipping in the chuck (was running true, after the hiccup it had a slight wobble.) At high rpms this can be very dangerous!
I would also recommend chucking up as much material as possible and facing the work before you center drill for a live center. Seeing a center wobble makes me 🙈
Great job!
That could be because he was using a fixed speed AC motor until now. This upgrade should help quite a bit.
The next big improvement might be an electronic lead screw. I have installed one, afer the big pulley on the spindle for the 3-phase motor made the gear inaccessible for the change gear. But be warned: the electromagnetic noise that comes from an inverter motor makes the setup a bit tricky to run reliable.
Love ya work mate
I think this is one of those situations where operations being nerve-wracking is actually good, keeps you humble avoids getting a bit too enthusiastic and causing some spectacular damage...
You can thread on a larger pully that extends past the gears or you can try out a CNC leadscrew. CNC your leadscrew can allow you to cut any thread you want and you can slow it down much slower than the stock gear train for the leadscrew.
Love it mate. You got more balls than I do, have only really run mine to about 2.5mm DOC - but that's as far as I go. Currently in the middle of a Clough42 e-leadscrew conversion (With a rollled ballscrew), but with a different microcontroller (I'm more familiar with STM boards). Have also previously done roller bearings (I found them to be quite a bit louder than angular contact ball bearings). And a full CNC conversion is on the drawing board for later this year.
Happy for you friend. That is all. 🥰
Most inverter rated motors can be ran down to 50% rated speed without cooling problems.
If it becomes a problem, remove the motor fan and replace it with a separately powered fan.
Huge improvement from stock.
Approaching a bigger lathe 😊
For short periods of time motor will be fine under 30Hz, but I'd recommend to not go under 30Hz for longer periods.
I don't think he really understands how induction motors and VFDs actually work.
This whole thing could have been done with almost zero expense and a much better result using a 1.5-2.5 HP DC motor and MC2100 controller from a discarded mid-size treadmill. DC means 100% torque at zero RPM so it reduces the need for gearing, however the treadmill motors spin faster so you need a small (original) pulley on the motor to get the spindle revs within a usable range.
I use a sewing machine motor with speed control on my mini lathe, which works great and powerful enough.
Love this. When I finally get around to working on my lathe I’ll have a few years of upgrades to plan out lol
I recommend Adult diapers as an upgrade 😂
Good one !!
I saw the thumbnail and said to myselfx "oh god, i have to watch this."
He's still digging the swarf out of the roof girders😂
I think you did everything perfectly. This is the ideal arrangement for a mini lathe. Id probably swap in a 5 inch chuck but thats about it
amazing....good work! a little bit insane, but good work! 😉👍
I've never machined anything and it scares me how powerful that lathe is
Thank you!
thanks for the update, l still have the black motor u taught me how to do.
Neat. If it works for you that is great
Because of that VFD, witch is just fine, the useable range is 30-90 hz. At 30hz I would add a cooling fan as the motor is not spinning fast enough to cool itself.
If you want to prevent the motor from overheating at very low speeds (especially since it's a 6 pole motor so you can run it really slow even with open loop scalar vfds) simply attach an external fan, probably a 120mm one, sunon ones are really good and you can get them at any voltage that's convenient for you. just mount the fan on the outside of the fan cover blowing into it
It should scare your leads crew as well. Go for it.❤
As well it should... I bought one of the Chinese 750w (1hp) sewing machine upgrade kits which have a 3 phase servo drive and it works like a charm. Cost me just over $120 CAD plus a couple of new spindle pulleys and belt.
Very cool. Believe it or not I have taken a 6mm depth of cut (entire edge of a CCMT060204 insert) in both mild steel and cast iron, on a Premo Aussie made lathe. It was a 400kg+ lathe, with a 1.5hp single phase motor. I think both mass and rigidity are as important as motor power. It is heaps of fun to watch what you can do with this beast of a mini lathe though. I liked the comment where the guy who made the QCTP said it should be fine. 😂 Cheers, Craig
Dept of cut is one thing. Feed is another ☺️ not many machines under +2000kg is capable of both 😁
@@OmeMachining of course 👍
I can take 1/4" depth of cut on steel all day long on an Acra 14x40, which honestly isn't a great lathe. It's just, you know, a real lathe, unlike these little mini-lathes.
Having a proper geared lathe makes a big difference as well, as it will harness the maximum amount of torque out of the motor.
I'd love to see you make a custom quick change gearbox for the lead screw
316 stainless is very gummy due to the high nickle content. It makes sense that geometry designed to cut aluminum would work. Even HSS would be a good option. Like you said though if it start to rub and heat up it turns rock hard.
Very nice! You can never have too much power. High feed rate and proper surface speed is crucial with indexable carbide, both of which are enabled by the big motor and VFD. You'll never use the full 3hp for more than a few seconds at a time on that tiny lathe, but it does allow you to run a huge speed range without overheating the motor.
I'd avoid running messy coolant and instead rather put that effort into a proper air compressor and hearing protection to support a good air blast set up.
It actually looks great imho. For the type of lathe. Although I think you need some form of auto feed for better finish.
What I do notice in your videos is the live center shaking/vibrating, thus also that end of your part. I think you really need a better quality live center. That will also improve your results.
You do you man!!
I’d be interested to see a thread cutting video and how you’ve synced it up to do so.
Nice videos 👍 thanks ✌️
Take a look at a speeds and feeds chart for cutting anything harder than aluminum and brass. Helpful in getting better cuts. 🙏
A note on VFD’s. When operating under the motor nameplate RPM, say 300 RPM on the 900 RPM motor, you are in the area known as “constant torque” meaning the motor will output the same max torque as any RPM between 0 and 900. Horsepower will vary, but torque will stay the same. Once you get to over 900 RPM’s you are in the “constant power” area meaning the motor will always output 3hp, but torque will decrease as RPM increases over 900.
Interesting stuff.
Regarding changing the chuck, a 100mm chuck will fit. In fact there are versions of the mini lathe with 100mm chucks as standard.
Fitting a backplate will work but the downside is that it will increase the overhang of the chuck.
I bought a replacement spindle for mine to take a 100mm chuck with a 72mm register. It wasn't expensive but provides a more ridged setup and a slightly larger hole through the spindle. It works well.
I had a 1hp 3ph motor on my mini lathe , two speed v belt drive with a quick release mechanism on the tensioner lever - changing speeds took about 5 seconds . There was a lay shaft that fed power from the v belt drive across to a poly v belt and this to the spindle . Even 1hp has enough grunt to flex the carriage but it never broke and in low speed I could get down to 60rpm and on high 3000rpm - the taper bearing get hot at this speed ! On the motor I put a small 12v Thermo fan -150 mm dia iirc and this was speed controlled via a cheap Pwm controller I got off eBay - I could run that motor all day under load and it barely got warm . In retrospect I could have saved a lot of time and effort if I had have used a 3hp motor as it would still have enough power when running slowly where as the 1hp didnt and I wouldn’t have needed the two speed drive . I now have a small optimum lathe as I sold the other one minus the motor and vid and I am going back to using HSS as it is cheaper , needs less power and is more durable than carbide inserts for what I do - every time I use it I find the edge is chipped and I have to change the insert around .
Nice motor. It also comes with a lathe
Finally, someone is breaking the rules and leading the way for everyone else. As long as it works there is absolutely nothing wrong with it.
love watching your journey on the lathe and mill. I'm noticing how many upgrades you have done on your lathe. What are your thoughts between Sieg SC3/400 and Hafco AL51-G as my first lathe for my home workshop? I have a hafco mill drill which I'm pretty happy with so far, but sieg look to be almost a name brand in mini-lathes? given your experiences, I'd appreciate your advice
If you're really scared of it, maybe add a clutch or use a cheap flat belt that you cut to size and glue up. It should be much easier to modulate the slippage on a flat belt than a V belt.
Most excellent.
No problems having a big motor, as i t only puts out the amount of power you load it with. The big benefit will be when you slow it down, wich you should do with the stainless. Half the speed, a hefty feed and flood coolant is the way.
Good job!
Enjoy your videos. Have you thought of using the other motor for autofeed?
I have this one job at work in 316 Stainless and I do a lot of drilling and a little bit of milling into a plate. it's a real pain to break chips with the drill and I end up with a birds nest every single hole. I might have to code in a reverse spindle direction and coolant to blow off the chips.
Wow color me impressed! I mean 3mm DOC on a chinese mini lathe like this is really impressive, not so much in regards to the motor, but more so about the slide, Im amazed the slide can handle that lateral pressure and not lift up or buckle in any way. As always just fantastic content from your channel, the only sad part is I've already watched all your videos multiple times. I generally watch your channel and clickspring while Im working its nice.
nice job
The new motor with its wiring grommets remind me of a certain Sesame Street character.😂
I have that same drive on my Air compressor! 😄
7:55 You might see if you can find an old iron surface plate and use that instead. I know this will of course depend on where you are, but I'll occasionally see some older worn ones for 100-200 dollars. Most of them just tend to have a bunch of dents and gouges from accidents in a shop, so it limits their use as a surface plate, but just take a whetstone to them and they'll be a way better mount than some bars of steel.
On heavy cuts get in the habit of running the tailstock handwheel in as you cut.
Impressive
It's a little beast.
brother, please increase the size of the bolt head surface you used to fix the lathe to the steel plate.. and make sure their high rated.. with washers.. it appears in the video they are WAY to tiny for all that torque.. stay safe and keep up the great work.
Letting the vfd run to 90 hz ( field range of motor) will allow motor rpm 1.5 x higher. Great for small diameters and suitable material!
One note on the pulley set-up. I think i would have gone with a poly vee type belt.
My old Clausing 12" lathe was able to do 250 thou on mild steel the other day 😳.
I was able to do the hardened CV shaft a lot easier than before too.
have you tried KNUX ? i use it at work for pretty much all my cutting 10mm depth of cuts all da long but i have a big lathe .also very good surface finish , it can take some effort to chip some alloy steels