The Beginner’s Guide to Carbon vs. Aluminum Bike Frames | Shop Talk | The Pro's Closet
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- čas přidán 25. 07. 2024
- Are carbon fiber bike frames always better than aluminum bike frames? Each has pros and cons, and there are many reason you might want one over the other. We dig into the differences in comfort, weight, aerodynamics, stiffness, durability, cost, and looks to understand the advantages and disadvantages of carbon vs. aluminum.
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I think we need to help people understand this….
Carbon $5,000-$12,000
Aluminum $1,000-$3,000
Seems pretty easy to understand to me.
The alloy bikes are getting more and more expensive. Even Commencal has a few $7k+ which is crazy IMO ... I think warranties play into it as well. If I can get carbon with a good warranty and crash replacement, it might be worth it in the long run. I'd never buy used carbon though, since warranties typically don't transfer owners.
That’s actually not true at all. You can get entry level FX4 Trek and even a FX5 for 2k and under.
@@topspot4834 That’s not true at all either. I own a FX3 aluminum and it is a 1,000 bike. You can get a FX4 carbon fiber at under 2k, and it is Carbon fiber.
wrong. 2000-2500 € bikes have carbon frame.
i have a 2014 Santa Cruz Bronson C, and 2014 Trek session 8.8, both are great bikes. Going up hill with with the Santa Cruz is easier, and its better on bumps feels lighter at only 26 pounds. The Trek is a dream bike to look at, and performs like a beast. They both are incredible.
❤ my 2016 GT PRO series 2 Aluminum frame w/carbon forks. Dura-Ace group set. Shimano 105 rim brakes. RITCHEY WCS full carbon seat post and a Selle Italia saddle . RITCHEY WCS Handlebar stem. Mavic rims wrapped in specialized TURBO tires. LOOK full carbon KETO Peter Sagan clip in pedals.
Very nice!
Great video. Easy to understand. Thanks.
Glad it was helpful!
I still have my Vitus 21 tubing Motobecan ,,, and an Aluminum Mountain bike and I have a Specialized carbon fiber road bike,,,,my favorite bike is always the old 21 speed 27" Miche rims she's been so many miles for me and dude she is super fast.. never got rid of anything....
I do remember how fun it was to go fast when I was young. I am 62 and don’t bike when I am in a hurry. My bike is 28 years old, works great, and is made of chromoly steel. I will confess that on a good day I wonder how fast I could go on a good carbon fiber bike. Nice to see you kids having fun on them.
A modern Aluminum frame is good enough for most people. I like good Carbon Wheels/Seatpost on a high quality (Reynolds/Columbus) Steel frame (Allroad/Cross)... Carbon is for the Pro' s/Racer.... Pain in the ass for Nature and very expensive (if you want a good build, solid, very light and stiff frame ) Cheap carbon frames are more placebo than good...
My 40 year old Cannondale is good enough for me. Did get some unfriendly comments from friends of G Klein when I first bought it. Never from Gary or his Spouse.
Bamboo?
@@lesliepropheter5040 Someone was marketing a set of lugs you could buy to make your own bamboo bike. Way too flexible except as a novelty.
@@billsmith5109 I was half kidding, the carbon fiber is where it’s at. Thx
Great video, thank you!!
Glad you liked it!
It comes down to price really. I have a SantaCruz aluminum from 2013 with Shimano XT and Mavic wheels that I paid 500 dollars for, the same set up carbon can go to upward of 5000 dollars, it's up to you.
My Specialized carbon fiber road bike has Mavic rims very nice bike to ride.....
Aluminum all the way. I’ve taken way too many rocks to the downtube for carbon, and I like the snappier feel of aluminum more
Right on!
В 80-х гонял на стальных конях "Чемпион шоссе" Харьковского вело завода. До не давнего времени ездил на алюминиевом МТБ и мечтал о карбоновом шоссейнике. Мечта сбылась, уже неделю катаюсь. Очень доволен.
Can use carbon frame like those mountainpeak explore 4000 to be used in a bike trail, high jumps and stuff?
- sorry, just a newbie question
I’ve been laying carbon fiber fabric with resin like how I would with fiberglass, I hope it’s strong
Carbon fiber for my Cyclocross Race bike, carbon fiber for my Gravel Race bike, carbon fiber for my Road Race bike, and carbon fiber for my Adventure/Bikepacking bike! So I guess I’m a fully carbon fan!!! I’ve dented aluminum a bunch, but never done anything to carbon so that’s why.
I'm from Durango and I hear about this custom bike AND SEEN PICTURE S OF IT IN TOWN
Love my CF Cloud 9
sir, how much those will cost (manufacturing cost[labor, machine, etc])
I have both alu and carbon cx and gravel bikes. Funny thing my alu giant with basic build spec is still much lighter than my carbon di2 bikes. But at the end of the day, they all bring a smile!
Do you prefer carbon or aluminum? Fatigue and vibration?
All things considered I'm going to stick with aluminum. Cheaper, lighter, recyclable. Maybe ti for a forever bike.
Hydroformed aluminum tube sets are available from top Taiwanese manufacturers. Those tubes are the product extensive research whose goal was to produce a new generation of aluminum frames that perform well. If you know what to look for, you can walk into a bike shop and see them being used on many mid-range bikes.
Marin Taiwan here 🇬🇧 🤟🤠💯
A good example is the sagmit bike
The guy putting the tubes together has a bigger impact on how the bike will ride than what the tubes are made of.
Yep, agree. This should be the starting and ending point on all these discussions.
Cool video!
Thanks!
I get a trifecta of riding enjoyment and material there made of ranging from my Felt Broam 30,Felt FR 30, the 2 being aluminum and I had to go carbon on a high speed performance experience in my Felt AR Advanced 105 Di2
I have carbon fiber bikes trek MTB 29er in depends on you how to use ur carbon bikes.
Well, I saw no Steel or Ti... True it was not in the title. Overall best material is likely Ti. But, it is very hard to weld correctly
SIX13 FRAME I'M RESTORING & CAMPY BUILD. 20YEAR OLD CLASSIC.
That was agood topic on bike frames the pros & cons that suits your needs on frame choices thanks for sharing yourvideo for all to watch peace out in paradise from honolulu hawaii aloha
🙌 🤘
I have a Salsa mountain and a Canyon Road bike, both Carbon and there's no comparison for them in their class.
🙌
You left out Titanium. I’m an old Litespeed lover. Or what about Kinesium? I like it as well.
+1 for Ti.
I have a newer Madone, SPEC. Allez and a Ritchey Road Logic steel. I mainly ride the Ritchey and a steel Salsa Gravel. Every carbon frame 8 broke. Non in a crash. I don't trust it so it stays on the Wahoo Zwift set-up. New steel. Has a sweet ride what I remember from the 70s . Classic frames look best to me. My Madone is ugly. Ritchey Dura Ace with Dura Ace deep carbon hoops. Whatever floats your boat. Just ride
How hard to get parts for this bike
For me still is the best
Like other than. Frame set. Still is still beautiful
I use mosso alloy frame, only 4 months want to upgrade seat post, saddle and handlebar with carbon. What are your opinions? Possible to speed up with power before upgrade?
Had 1989 Aluminum Trek 1500 road bike. 22#. Did 3 cycle to the Sun on Maui sea level
to 10'000 feet. Down tube shifter's extremely
reliable did most climbing & downhill rode the crap out of that Trek 15 years Ultegra components. Tires, brake pads, cables, bottom bracket overhaul. Also quite tantalus mountain time trail climbs. Never had problem with the frame. Now retired got a Lemond aluminum carbon fork road bike & a
Fuji hybrid aluminum with disk brakes.. Both use to climb tantalus as it's near where I live.
Since I'm 72 years old like to ride the Fuji hybrid more comfortable esp. the downhill.
Cam climb faster on road bike but but it's not about speed anymore at my age.
Stay active that's great
Ignore this whole video I got a carbon fiber stump jumper that’s gone through hell and back so many times it’s practically got a citizenship there. If it’s well made carbon fiber it will be better than aluminum in every way but if it’s a lower end bike just get aluminum until ur ready to invest in something dope. Haven’t watched the vid either just putting this comment here for a quick sum up on them
If I accidentally click on this ad one more time I’m going to blow my brains out
The bike you have and ride is the best
Aluminum. I have been riding my Garry Fisher Cake 2 for years in the rocky mountains. Inspite of what some say, aluminum can be repaired. I would recommend some models carbon for the road.
Even on a road bike I can't trust carbon frames like it's been said the few gains on carbon frames don't out weigh the issues they come with in my book and I can get or build a great aluminum bike for less by far
And I would go titanium way before carbon too
Never road a Carbon Fiber bike, I do have a couple Aluminum bikes and an couple old Steel Framed as well. The difference between the Aluminum weight vs the Steel is crazy, but I don't think the Carbon vs Aluminum weight difference is as dramatic.
My Giant Rapid III is my go to bike for long distance rides, did the 100 mile on that Aluminum Bike and love it. So guess I am a metal head, ROCK ON!
Yeah you’re an old bomer who has no idea what you’re talking about. 🤦♀️ In 1972 - an absolute boom in 10-speeds in the US - I bought the world’s lightest general production road bike. It wasn’t all that expensive. It weighed just under 21 lbs. (Came standard with silk sew- ups of course) It was a 100% steel frame. Reynolds 531 double- butted throughout. Reynolds 531 is
manganese-molybdenum, medium-carbon steel tubing. In the last 10 years I’ve had high end aluminum and carbon enduro mountain bikes. The difference between the two are significantly greater than the difference between steel and aluminum back in the day. Carbon enduros aren’t more advantageous in all ways but that’s a discussion for another day.
@@mrsmartypants_1 I'm glad you added "who has no idea what you're talking about" my Brother had a Peugeot and the things gearing and drive mechanism seemed way smoother than a lot of American bikes that I road. Back mid 70s. But mostly road dirt bikes like Penton, Husky and Bultaco and raced MX and Enduros. Like sawmill and forest hill. Many exotic materials and methods not seen today. Some boomers know a lot. Better learn before the technology is lost to time. Like Damascus Steel etc. Many emerging technologies and techniques have been done before. But Fear and Arrogance squash knowledge. lol They Won't even let them Race 500cc 2 strokes any more. Honda stopped around 2000. "Due to Environmental concerns". Now 2 strokes are running cleaner and are getting a few foots in doors. Ears are opening. Maybe that will bring back swedging and sweating of frame tubes. Titanium and Magnesium. One can only Dream. People only work from home now days. "C'mon Jack wanna do some pushups or go out back." lol better watch what you say to some boomers.
@@Macuhdohnadadoh steel frame must be bare bones. The suspension weighs that much. If MB
You probably haven’t ridden a modern top end steel frame bike. My steel bike is Reynolds 853 and is set up with high end components and only weighs 17 lbs. most entry level to mid level Alu bikes weigh as much or more and unless you’re racing the weight difference between a UCI minimum carbon bike and a high end steel bike is pretty meaningless at 2# when you factor in the weight of the rider. The main difference is the cost. You’ll pay significantly more for the Carbon bike to achieve a comparable ride quality of a high end steel bike and the Steel bike, properly maintained to prevent corrosion (easy enough to do) will last you far longer and be a better value purchase.
@@Macuhdohnadadoh Yup same here. My Raleigh International made with Reynolds 853 only weighs 4# and the ride quality is way better than Aluminum.
Of course, and I think that I can speak for everyone, I use a variety of materials for different bicycle applications. For World Championship Downhill I use a Carbon Fiber Composite Frame with steel bracing and Titanium swingarm and forks. For World Championship Enduro I prefer a steel frame with Carbon Fiber sub frame with Aluminum swingarm and a Boron Composite Fork. For World Championship Road Racing and Tour Le France I typically use a Carbon Fiber Composite Frame with Carbon Fiber Composite Forks. I prefer Titanium gusseting and TI bars, levers, and fasteners. For World Championship Endurance Racing I like an Aluminum Alloy Frame with Carbon Fiber Composite Skid Plate and Boron Composite Swing Arm and Forks. For greater comfort I prefer a Steel Subframe and Titanium water bottle holder. Anyway, those are my particular preferences. I'm interested in what others like too.
ur a laugh
Wow
Carbon fork and rear stays on AL take out the stiffness of an all AL frame. You can really get beat up on a longer tour with all AL
Titanium , where have they gone? why?
You should demonstrate the resiliency between carbon vs aluminum frames in scratch and dings that rocks or crashes can cause. Thanks for the video!
Good idea!
@@theproscloset ya it is. I'd even settle for a pinned comment up top describing differences.
I think it varies. Some carbon frames are more fragile than others depending on the quality of carbon and the amount of layers. The older carbon road bikes had the center of the tubes thin enough that you could squeeze them with your fingers (Felt from around 2012-13). Then you have forged carbon versus woven wraps. I have a Wilier carbon frame that uses forged carbon and its characteristics would be different than a woven bike from the same time period.
What are your thoughts on titanium?
Titanium is phenomenal, we're just focusing on the two most common materials in this vid.
I want a carbon frame for xc racing. Never thought I'd say it but my bike is "heavy" now 😆
Interesting. There are a lot of info out there telling to be very careful with carbon fiber parts when applying force to it (e.g tightening a screw). it can cracks if you are not carefull. Aluminium is way forgiven on this.
I see broken carbon mtn bikes a lot, not so many with Alu
My old aluminum mtn bike has gone end over end a dozen times with no real damage. I wouldn’t want to risk that with a carbon bike.
Add to that carbon most often fails catastrophicaly without warning.
So carbon fiber are good granny bikes but for abuse Aluminum or steel.
@Kameron Black OK, post your bank account number
Yeah definitely gotta be a little more careful with it. I just learned that lesson pounding through a rock garden before I hearing a large "crack". Time to walk home with my cracked wheel.
isn't there a min, weight limit when raceing
Just discovered my new MTB had a carbon frame! Now I'm worried 😮 I'm not known for taking care of my gear 😅
Yeah, carbon fiber on mtb is kinda just a bad idea unless you only ride around on sidewalks or something.
As a welder, couldn’t you tig and grind an alu frame?
I’ve heard that the aluminum is too thin and difficult to properly repair usually
Burn your shop down aluminum burns nasty. Try getting the fire out. Funny they make ferry boats and recreational boats out of aluminum huh?
@@lesliepropheter5040 HELLO you are thinking of MAGNESIUM. In the 70s the Husqvarna factory caught on fire and couldn't be put out. Now they foam and other methods to deal with it.
Steel vs titanium?
I have a BMC team 29 aluminum. Rides like carbon.
I love steel with a little carbon
Unfortunately I’m a victim of great marketing. I always want carbon fiber if I can get it.
It's worth it though. Carbon makes for a great ride.
How about 4130 buted molly old school huh? Just wondering what happened to that can you explain I'm an avid bike rider sence 12 yrs old
Frames are usually heavier and fairly expensive. Every bike I own except 1 is steel. Love the material, but man, a full suspension steel bike is just as expensive as carbon fiber.
I have fixed several aluminum bike frames, I am a retired welder.
As a consumer I am thinking first price point which puts me in the range of Alum over carbon. If I am a pro racing in events and weight means everything I am going full carbon.
Thats basically the bottom line.
You should check out a bike with a Reynolds 510 steel frame.
Carbon baby
I prefer metal to canvas and glue.
It was good enough for the red barron.
Don't forget about titanium. I've been riding my Litespeed Tuscany titanium bike for over 20 years.
🙌
Thank you guys it’s very helpful what you are doing. According to the environmentalists we have an overload of carbon.
If environmentalists weren’t so stupid they would realize that the same carbon is always here. Its only the form that changes. Maybe they should worry if carbon fiber is gluten-free or if whales eat aluminum frames or whatever is their lastest lunacy.
I run a galvanized steel frame with carbon rims and a banana dropper post seat 😎
Me too galvanized pipe and elbows. Got the plans off that Three Stooges show where Curly threads himself into a maze of pipes.🙊🙉🙈......... Hey Mo!!!
I was told I should get a steel bicycle because im 6ft 245 not fat.Hard pedaling and I can feel the bike twisting.I was told by more experienced cyclists.I really should really have steel?
Thank you guys for this video! When you´ve had the opportunity to ride all your life you can say with certainty a lot of stuff, carbon is definitely much more comfortable, way much, IF you are a commited cyclist (ridingat least 10 hours a week or more), if you´re not that serious an alminum bike will work for you really sweet.
Steel is real
So is carbon 😂
Road-Al
Tri-Carbon
MTB-Al
BMX-Al
Beach cruiser-Steel
i saw a carbon fiber tandem break completely behind the head tube. They crashed pretty hard.
So the fact that carbon can be repaired wasn’t the main issue I suppose…hmmm…catastrophic failure you say….hmmm
@@tibbar1000 i bet aluminum wouldnt have broke. No repairs needed.
@@deathred3144 exactly
Steel! Reynolds 853
#steelisreal
I am old school. My preference is Chromoly frames
Steel is Real
It’s funny y’all used the space shuttle as a carbon fiber example, since the boosters were almost all aluminum 😁 people sell aluminum short
I’ve only ridden aluminum and steel and can’t feel a difference in vibration. I can’t afford carbon and have never ridden one but I’m pretty sure I won’t notice a difference in vibrations.
Try riding 100 miles. You'll definitely feel it.
Considering the carbon fiber blades on the Mars aerial vehicle broke, I'm not so sure it's space age material.
The biggest thing for me is vibration. I had two bike, a Trek Madone (carbon) and a Specialized Allez (aluminum) with the same carbon seat posts, handlebars, and wheels and on same 28c tires and the Allez was more fatiguing because of the road buzz so I tend to grab the Madone most of the time.
Don't you think thats a bit over the top. Vibration lol. It's psychosomatic . It's been cool for 100 years but now it's a big problem? Common. And you can't fix carbon fiber
@@prestonhanson501 If you think that I’m the only person that feels that way, you must be new to carbon bicycles.
@@prestonhanson501 if you’ve never ridden a carbon fiber bike why are you talking
I can attest to this. Carbon is a joy on long rides.
I had the same problem with a tarmac, terrible road buzz beat you up on long rides. Went back to a steel master x Colnago
"You must choose wisely "- Yoda.
" you have chosen aluminum, and chosen correctly. May the force be with you. " - Yoda
Millennium Falcon had to have a refit of 7075 T-6 to repel enemy fire and withstand G forces of warp speed.
The old carbon fiber panels were too brittle
Must have missed this part in the movies 😂
@@theproscloset 😏👍
Aluminium forever. It CAN be hightec and lightweight.
You know those carbonated water drinks will give you kidney stones
If I was going to do any type of jumping, aluminum. But personal racing against myself with no jumps, carbon
prefer aluminum, with carbon forks, you get best of both worlds
Good combo 👍
Rode an aluminum frame Giant road bike for years. It was fine except it formed a hairline crack where the top tube is welded to the seat tube. Giant replaced the frame and I still have the bike today. However I then purchased a Specialized Roubaix carbon frame. I will never go back to aluminum!
it all comes down to $$. if money is not an object, carbon all the way. if not, aluminum is best suited for daily riders to endure the use and abuse in all weather and environment. carbon will be great for road or even fitness hybrid that are used in good weather/road condition.
Sometimes it is not about money it can also be about the different rides different materials offer a hi quality aluminum frame can be a blast try a specialized allez sprint even better if it is rim brake
I got a carbon fiber mountainbike and a aluminium road bike. My next bike will be a steel gravel bike!
Niner RLT steel!
my next bike is an asphalt paver 😀
I hear galvanized pipe is the BOMB💥 wait this could be the wrong comment section. Achmed is that you?
@@bov5982 Huh?
My next bike will be a carbon bike yet again!
"Alluminum can't be repaired" and then there's me trashing my xc hardtail repaired alluminum bike without worrying about anything, it has hold on pretty well for the kind of things I've done with it.
Hey, don't let these guys know you disagree with them, they'll get mad..
Hi
Ya I mtb also and you can’t fix aluminum without completely ruining the Heat treat and if you running d.h you’re on a ticking time bomb.
@@codythill2659 You just have to anneal the aluminum frame, it's not a big deal. There are several places in every reasonably large city that do it. I would not say that carbon is any easier to fix and make durable again than aluminum. They are both a pita and it's gonna be more cost effective to just get a new frame either way.
How is it heat treated a second time
I ride carbon for now but with all the fuzz about disc and electronic nonsense on road bikes soon i will go back to steel like rode back in the late 80's i might put tubulars to get the full feel of the bike
Can you Carbon Fiber over Aluminum?
If repairing a carbon frame doesn't cost alot then I'm sold on carbon at least for a fat bike!
Depending on the damage, a carbon repair is going to be less expensive than almost any other alternative.
Steel
I just got w carbon mtb. I never get anything right.
Carbon Fiber road bike. Aluminum mountain 🚵♂️ bike.
Still waiting for rubber frame😅
Why the most cyclist which use carbon bikes they don't cycling often the winter months? I am all around year cyclist and very rarely see carbon bikes in winter months?
Wait, why can't aluminium be repaired?
Couldn't you just weld it if it cracks?
Yes, it can be repaired. You are correct it can be welded.
Just weld and grind it, I’m a welder so I know this would work.
Engineer here: Aluminum and steel frames are often heat treated after they are welded. This is done to normalize after welding to soften the heat affected zone and then the rest of the frame is frequently heat treated again to harden the rest of the frame to improve fatigue resistance.
If you weld repair the frame, you'll also need to re-normalize and re-heat treat it.
@@brianwright9514 So not a home job then , unless you have an industrial kiln at home. 😂
@@freedomofmotion I wouldn't even trust a welding shop to do it right unless I could give them specific repair instructions from the frame designer.
Titanium is still the best!
My accountant picks my bike frames for me.
😂🙌
You guys forgot TI and 4130 chrome
I’ve welded cracks on aluminum downhill frames. And they’re still being ridden. Aluminum can be repaired…
After you repair it, you'd have to heat treat it to 570-800 degrees to get it back to original strength. Tell me what you'd have to do to repair it? I wish the Spencer & Bruce didn't say it's not repairable, because they are, it's just that they are not practical to repair, that's what makes them irreparable.
@@paulm8269 plus the fact that they did such a poor video makes me leary of any advice. I am a welder and agree a fab shop may save your vacation but wouldn't be jumping anything. And take out of service after trip. Your 570-800 seems high to me but it has been a while since welding Aluminum and new alloys have come a long way. I expected a carbon fiber mold and some extruded Aluminum not a rolled up piece of paper. Might as well rolled a joint. Would have gotten more out of it.
@@bov5982 570-800 are the actual temps .. depending on a few factors.
@@paulm8269 is the welding and heat treating done inside a chamber? Had some different parts made before from Titanium and they had to be welded with these gloves and a special window like a bead blaster. plus a hood. Then the mirror welding where everything is bassackwards.
I’ve heard of multiple carbon fiber mounts bike breaks, never an aluminum
Yup . Mine broke bad
Go over the cheap Chinese carbon frames PLEASEEE!!!
We have a magazine article about them on our website!
I would prefer to hang carbon bikes off my bike rack, and not the heavier aluminum bikes. So far converted 1 of 3 to carbon (rims included). Heaviest component are the rubber tires (not much I can do about that) - and then the forks… which I am looking into, but I’d rather replace the other two bikes first.
What are carbon bikes, like 1 pound heavier than their aluminum counterpart?
@@bhuff86bingo!
@@bhuff86 No, my friends alu bike is like 12kgs and anothers 18kg while my carbon one is 8kg, it is very noticeable,
How about Titanium?
If you think CF is expensive, wait until you get the Ti bill.
@@paulm8269 😊 what kind of welding rods do they use titanium?
@@alanr4263 uhh let me guess bailing wire?
@@paulm8269Buying Titanium is like Buying a Rolls Royce if you have to ask the price, you can't afford it.
Let’s stop about weight being such a big deal… I have a full carbon, but then I put on a water pak at about 2.5 pds full…. My next bike will be Al, due to pricing and longevity
Just got a nice steel frame . done with the anxiety carbon gives with crashes
@@staticx2552 steel? Steel is heavy and rusts. You mean aluminum?
@@reboundrides8132 depenss on the steel and if you choose to maintain your shit or not
Have a 2001 Cannondale aluminum which weighs less than my 2020 Cannondale SystemSix.
I want aluminum fiber
🤔