EURORACK MODULE BUYING GUIDE: JUST DON'T
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- čas přidán 8. 01. 2022
- A high level look at some best practices when buying eurorack modules.
Part "2" of this video linked below.
• WHY I KEEP BUYING EURO...
I reference a couple of my older videos including the GR-1. The link below is one of my earliest videos featuring the GR-1.
• Tasty Chips GR-1 Piano...
The mechanical keyboard is a qwerkywriter!
www.qwerkywriter.com?sca_ref=1619452.2YFRbvbXuG - Hudba
I'm lucky in that I used to be a drug addict, so spending all by money is something that I have a lot of experience with, and it doesn't bother me like it probably should. I'd rather have synth than money anyway.
Best comment ever
Can relate
This will be another addiction man
It’s called GAS.
Big relate. I've been off the H and meth and ever since then I've been a eurorack addict. As long as I don't spend money on dope, I'm pretty grateful haha
The time spent is the therapeutic fun part…it’s priceless
I have bumper sticker on my car, "my other car is a modular synth"
yikes! and it's truth!
Love it
Great video, laying out some deeper truth and not just a fancy demo of the latest desirable module. I’m about 3 years and $4k into it, trying to go slooow. Biggest mistake of my path has been redundant features - having multiple devices that do the same thing. Started semi-modular with a 0-Coast and then started filling a 7u case with things that essentially did what the 0-Coast already did but on a larger scale. Another issue I run into is the trade-off between flexibility and function - for the same price I could have gotten a Moog Matriarch or similar pre-wired synth designed by experts! Instead I have a collection of modules and semi-modulars for exploring unexpected sounds, which was my goal - still question it sometimes though. Glad to see your take on these issues.
Well said and thank you for stopping by. My soft spot is anything granular synth so I have to becareful. :)
Nice marketing, moog, you almost got me with this one :)
I'm a high school teacher who got into modular when the stimulus checks hit my bank account, and I always argue for how rewarding a limited modular set up can be. I have the 6u Rackbrute and while I do occasionally replace pieces, I'm very happy with the possibilities that space provides. It absolutely is expensive, but I simply don't buy the argument that it's an endless money pit. Unless I get a crazy windfall, I won't be expanding my rack any time soon to a larger case. Of course, you need to be somewhat intentional, and I think you should always start with semimodular (my Rackbrute sits atop a Minibrute 2s, the BEST eurorack semimodular in my opinion!) But small is beautiful, and you don't need a million modules to get a great deal of fulfillment out of modular. Thanks for the vid!
Well said sir!
You are gonna start cooking meth soon to afford your habit
6u is a great sweetspot. It's the perfect carry on size for planes too.
Never more than 1 new module per month! If you go faster than that it's 100% certain that you are underusing your modules. Even 1 per month is pretty fast.
Another advice would be, if you like a new module, try recreating it with the modules you already have. A lot of new unique modules are just two or three simple functions blended together. Often you can achieve the same result by combining a module you already have with utilities
Super insightful! Thanks for sharing!!!
Love the one per month rule.
Month 1: just letting a VCO drone
Month 2: just letting a VCO drone, but it's somewhat muted by a filter
For sure agree with the 2nd part. Thought i wanted a turing machine. Turns out with my sq64 acting as clock divider triggering my 4 step sequencer, and s&h 4x slower, each going though my molten mtr (att/sum) into 1v/o equals a basic turing machine.
I think It’s important to have a game plan for what you want to do going in so you avoid buying unnecessary modules. The newer semi-modular synths like the moog DFAM are amazing because they combine are essentially a whole rack combined into 1 (VCO, VCA, VCF, sequencer, envelope, etc) for a cheaper cost. Really all you need after that is some fx and a way to modulate and you can do some crazy stuff for
using a NIMB is exactly how I got into it! And I didn’t even need to spend much money on it.
Using two mixers and a bunch of FX pedals running stereo into two 4x10 300w bass amps and panning different inputs i was able to produce some insane results. drum beats, melodies by using WAH, harmonisers and octave pedals, ambient drones and unreal noise with delay and echo.
Having a proper modular synth is still way more convenient.
but there’s heaps of ways to do a basic synth setup without needing to buy new equipment if your already a musician with gear.
I'm glad you talk about time as a resource/cost. Many people don't think of it that way.
Yes!!!
Yup... As I've grown older, decisions about almost anything have a time 'cost' component in it... Heck, we work all our lives putting a price on our time. If we see something as 'valuable' (by spec and reputation) but it'll take me 3 years to come up to speed with it, it goes to the bottom of the list. Too hard = too little value.. and time is increasingly more valuable.
Many folks are discovering the negative aspects of 'too many options' and how it can actually stifle creativity... or, at least, affect how satisfied you might be with the music you produce. “Order and simplification are the first steps toward mastery of a subject -- the actual enemy is the unknown.” ― Thomas Mann
I started in modular about a year ago. I’ve gone very slowly due to budget and I’m only up to five modules, but I can honestly say I do not regret and have enjoyed every minute of it. I started out with a Rings clone and a midi to cv module to connect my Launchkey mini. That way I could play notes and use the arpeggiator as a sequencer. Then added the Behringer 140 dual ADSR and LFO and the Doepfer multimode filter. Topped it off with Disting MK4 to be able to try out all its different algorithms with what I already have. Hours of fun! 😆
All in a diy 84hp case. And currently working on my own diy dual vactrol LPG and dual attenuator module 😄👊🏽
Impressive! Thanks for sharing! :) I can sense the joy, which is at the end of the day, pretty amazing!
I formally got into synths after stumbling upon a YT video of someone doing a modular jam. And as much as that modular jam was an initial spark for my now intense passion for synthesis, I actually didn't go the modular route. My first synth was a vintage analog keyboard. I feel more creative with fixed limitations vs endless possibilities. But I'll always credit modular for activating my passion for synths⚡
I had the exact same experience. I saw Dereck Von doing a modular jam on YT and I caught the synth bug as a result.
@@KaijuInvadesNYC In my life, I've played the violin and the guitar, but hands down, the analog synth is my spirit instrument. Glad to finally have enough of them now lol
@@truth4lies86 as a non-musician, Synthesis has opened doors for me creatively I never imagined I'd be able to explore. and...it's FUN! Expensive, yes, but so, so much fun.
Hit a little close to home :) One thing it took me a couple of thousand dollars to learn was to try to go with single role modules, rather than the insane “kitchen sink” modules. Eurorack controls can get pretty small and fiddley and if you add too many knobs, weird key combos or menu diving on top of that it can be overwhelming. I get that modules (like guitar pedals) all want to have their own unique selling point, but there is also an appeal to the straightforwardness of a doepfer-esque module. Ie one function per knob.
This is why I’m selling Pamela’s new workout
While its niche and expensive there is just something about modular that feels so good to interact with. The experimentation and progressive unintentional jamming makes you feel like you're exploring sound as you go.
DIY and semi modulars can certainly help with the intro costs and give someone a good idea as to whether eurorack is right for them or not. My gateway into modular was a used model d, and a tip top happy ending kit (that way I didnt need to immediately buy a case and could use space in a standard 19" rack that i built out of scrap wood sitting around). Also if you're reading this and are new to this stuff, VCV rack is great for freely entering into the modular world :) Great vids btw thanks for the content, very much enjoying it! Keep it up :)
I've been a max for live user for a very long time and just recently connected the dots that all the techniques I'd use in modular are possible and possibly available through max for live (I'm thinking mostly generative stuff). Learning how a PNW works has been very useful to make more interesting things with live. I'm keeping the pam for now but now I'm more interested in keeping my modules as unique sound sources more than a complete music making machine. This will be a lot less money I dump into this endless pit.
I dig finding people with info like this, keep up the good work, functional yet organized and clean
"I'm here to actually talk you out, of getting in to it" Cracked me up 😂
This is reinforcing what I'm already doing. I got an Arturia Minibrute 2s, and have planned out an entire rackbrute 6U. I know very well that plan is going to change, and it has already changed many times. I'm setting aside some money each month, and plan to spend it as it builds up, that way I have time to familiarize myself with one module at a time. And I can start with one module at a time, because the Minibrute already has all the basics covered.
I like the spend slow approach, it bakes in the opportunity to figure out what your system needs more than what you want, over time I've learned that I can see what's "missing" and then focus on looking to fill that gap rather than just hosing Reverb for new and fancy. Good video
this presentation was so good to listen to. There were no distracting background sounds!
Great video. One problem that all noobs will have when they first get into modular synthesis, is that they won't know enough about it to actually plan a rack. I don't mean knowledge about synthesis itself - I knew plenty about that when I first started in modular - what I mean is, that modular synthesis totally changed my relationship with music and how I make it. I had no idea that would happen.
Well said!
As you say, there are plenty of ways to spend money. Some people buy boats… some fast cars. Some people take expensive vacations. It’s all relative to just how much you have that’s disposable income. Eurorack is a slippery slope and you do need some number of modules before you can really start to do complex things. I’m just getting into it and I’m close to needing an intervention but it’s also incredibly exciting and rewarding too. I find I’m staying up late and waking up early just to patch. Thanks for the gut check and video.
Welcome! :)
1 1/2 years into euro and i have to tell that the "take your time" and "invest over time" things are very true. I am filling up a Behringer Eurorack Go case over the above mentioned time now and getting every month or two a module is much more satisfying than getting them all at once (i imagine). Sometimes i buy them in batches of two but (almost) always buying the cheapest stuff (Behringer, Dopefer, Dreadbox etc). I also DIY mults, attenuators and mixers (pretty easy to do). That way you are a tiny bit more limited in options but boy i love my case.
Buying semimodulars is also okay for getting lots of functionality for cheap but beware, its not the same as modular!!
And obviously, you need to learn your modules and in which direction you want to go, if a module has some "downsides" then try to make the best out of it instead of giving up / switching the module, it will be much more rewarding!
I've been tempted to get into Eurorack at times but I always end up getting a groovebox or synth instead, since they tend to be more bang for the buck and can provide plenty of soft-modular functionality to scratch that experimental/sound design itch. It would probably take a $5,000 Eurorack setup to do everything Gotharman's Little Deformer 3 can do for example. I do envy those who can afford the best of both worlds though.
I definitely appreciated that you touched on DIY, it can be massively cheaper if you have the skills, especially if you make your own boards. Yes it takes up a lot of time to learn and build your own, but that's a rewarding and educational hobby in itself. Not to mention the synth diy scene encompasses a whole wide array of things, not just euro, but full size motm modules, non modular, and everything in-between ☺️
Just jumped in with a Roland system 500 complete set . All the basics in a nice powered rack. Great starter platform with really nice vintage Roland sound in collaboration with Malekko.
Very insightful and realistic approach!
I think I will live vicariously through CZcams videos of Eurorack, and concentrate on learning my DGX670. Thanks for sharing!
Very good points for sure, but after so many years of getting frustrated with “virtual cables” I just had to take the plunge! I started with semi-modular + the very affordable AE modular starter rack and then added Eurorack DIY stuff. By the way, I would like to add that DIY makes it more affordable, but at the same time it also makes for serious constraints depending on skill level when starting out. I would have loved to just start with a few Mutable Instruments modules, but those are really hard to build - all tiny SMD parts - so I‘m only getting to them now after quite a while of building. I know it’s worth it for the money I saved, but it delayed the moment where I could actually make the music I wanted to make. Guess what, Monsoon was the critical-mass-achieved module 😉
Just a great video, thoughtful and perfectly paced with strong advice. You helped me, thanks man.
Looking into this to work a little out of the box for a change in creativity. Thank you for the info.
Thanks for the great video. I think a good way for new synthesist to dip their toe in the water is to use VCV rack on a computer. It’s free and supports all the broad functionality of most modules.
Very new to this all. Agree with what you said. I dove in head first and have spent a ton of money already. I was lucky though in that I found someone very knowledgeable that was able to help guide me along with some of this stuff. Good video
Good advice... Spot on... I've been two years into modular synths now, and I've made pretty much the experiences that you describe...
I really enjoy building modules, I don't have the time to do it as much as I'd like. I get that's not for everyone. And I think a cheap semimodular (Crave) and a good set of patches to try out helps set the expectations of what your own modular should do. A mother-32/crave covers a lot of ground because it the utilities it has (noise, crossfader, mixer, etc). You can get several drum sounds, nice bass and lead sounds, and lots of wild stuff non-intuitive stuff that a beginner wouldn't have guessed on their own.
for bare minimum with a lot of immediate benefit would be a voice like Plaits, Braids, Rings, or Doepfer A-111-5/A-111-6. A utility with line-out like DivKid Stereo Strip (which is also useful as an EQ and VCA). a CV keyboard/sequencer like Keystep 37 or Keystep Pro. External pedals can add delay and reverb but are limited because they lack external modulation. Eurorack format effects are quite expensive compared to their pedal counterparts and getting everything quickly adds up. Using an Ornaments & Crime as a CV quantizer with programmable scale can give you a lot of control over generative patches. Generative patches can really take off with powerful modulation sources like ALM's Pip Slope MkII, loopable envelope such as Rides in the Storm's FEG, Maths, Behringer's Abacus, After Later Audio's Tilt, Vortex Generator, ALM's Pam's Pro/NEW Workout, etc.
Thanks for sharing!
there is certainly some hidden costs
like,,, remember that meme where "buys module, forgets patch cables" or whatever haha
also, i try to avoid menu diving modules, like that damn expert sleeper module, i sold that really quick, i know its powerful, but only for someone with a ton of time, which i do not have haha
great video!
Yeah cables and those even “knurlies” all add up. And yeah, nothing wrong with off loading menu divey modules. The more time it takes to get the modules going, those are also big hidden costs
@@DUNGEONMUSICTHEATRE and getting larger cases when you buy more modules too adds up. I went with a Doepfer monster case that solved space and power issues.
Hi DMT I'm glad I found this before I got any futher into it....I'm at the stage of hearing people get great sounds out of small setups of 62HP or smaller. Since the modules are really cool, I can see why people are partial to Eurorack...But for those of us on a tighter budget- you may want to check out the new AE format through tangible waves. A setup that will run me about $1,800 Eurorack is under $400 with AE. If my real goal is to learn audio engineering and synthesis, this solution will work if I'm honest. Some people might say "Oh, I'd be happy with just a little rig..." Not for long you won't, says probably more than one person with a full wall.
Wise, kindly and refreshing to hear.
Thanks, useful for me... i clicked on this after watching a tiptop/buchla 200 video, thinking hmmm maybe nows the time i finally start a modular rig. This was a useful reality check... also for me yeah i did go some of the alternative routes you mentioned, firstly with a couple of cheap analog semimodulars so i could play with cables, then the hydrasynth which is a proper digital modular thing in its own right, and more recently added an mpc one. Ive still ending up spending a chunk, but not nearly as much as i would have done on just a modest modular rig, and ive ‘built’ a full system around the hydra and the mpc and a few other hardware synths that is super flexible and endless fun and inspiration. Cheers.
I like your videos my guy. You’re fun to listen to. Keep it up.
Not me lowballing Eurorack regretters and cannibalizing their moneypits
Nice
The honesty in your video is great. It reminds me a little of something I always think about when it comes to people being described as "best of" in fields of practice where there is a high entry cost or payment to play. Could it be that they are considered so great because they are only competing against a small handful of people. Like I wonder if if the greatest potentials for talent are too poor to get their foot in the door. Great video, I like your unique approach instead of the mindless duplicatations I see all over youtube.
Love the video and agree that time and money will be invested, so be forewarned, new folks! I also want to add there are lots of fantastic forms, discords, and local groups out there to help and give feedback on experiences with gear. Also, the synth shops are staffed with really great people nowadays. So really spend some time asking questions with the community before making your first purchases, especially if you don't have a local shop!
The Modular world is fantastic, and I can only encourage any noob to seek out a 'mentor' before wasting $ and time into dead ends. Learn from peers who actually use the gear! To get started it won't be JUST a few modules.... you'll need to house them, power them, and find a way to integrate the sound outputs into a system that makes sense to you. Just that foundation can get costly for your wallet and headspace. Start small, obviously, with the following building block, to expand later: Clock, VCO, VCF, EG, FX. Some modules may integrate a few elements already. The most intelligent investment you'll make will be a human one, all things considered.
Great video! Having just started in Eurorack I’m riding the line of a hybrid set up , with modular, semi-modular, and dedicated boxes. I have small 60hp case, and as of today I can’t see doing more than doubling that. As of today I have a pretty clear idea of how I want to use modular, and I def want to get a full size set of keys in the mix. As of today modular has a pretty limited scope in my set up, at-least that’s how I’m trying to approach it.😄
There was a time when a few made music with what little they had, an old rudimentary seq, a drum machine and maybe some cheap synthesizer. Nowadays there are many who are obsessed with collecting the material that their references use without barely making music. Those are the brand market friends.
:( yeah hear ya!
Good timing on me watching this. Was considering starting buying these things, but I think making structured tracks is a priority.
Glad I could help!
This is why have a Doepfer A-100 system. Easy to use and relatively cheap. A few semi modulars would have been cheaper probably.
that is what I started with no regrets and built from there. Still have and use my Doepfer modules. Wasp is a great filter.
Love your videos, not enough people making real youtube style content about this stuff!
I thought hard about how much "fluff" to add to my channel so I appreciate this feedback. It's a balancing act to add some production value so it's more entertaining at least! :)
Wise advices. I agree most of what you said here. (the "critical mass" of a modular, need of time to learn, time to play, time to search sounds, the fact modular synths are not the only solution to produce music, but they are fantastic tool too, and so on...).
Thank you for stopping by!
Your intros are the best!
I share your thoughts 100%. Starting my first eurorack at the moment I spent 300€ for a TipTop case with PSU and two Beringer Modules (VCO/VCF/VCA & Mixer). Having a lot of experience with synths and studio workflows, I thought it would be a good idea to learn those simple modules before moving on. A cheap and good way might also be to bring in your old guitar pedals (always keep in mind to keep the levels -18db lower in this case). That way you can determine what effect type you are missing in your signal chain for very low cost.
Thanks for sharing! Appreciate you stopping by!
Hi. Just dropped in on your channel. First of all, really slick and well produced videos. Sharp and well lit. Thumbs up for that.
As for eurorack I have applied your suggested approach in real life. I started out as a poor student in 1995 So I could only afford an empty deeper case, once VCA, 1 VCO, 1 VCF, 1 ADSR and 1 LFO. I had that for a long time and basically just made bass sounds with it. I was alone and this was pre internet so there were no real sources to get tips. I basicly got stuck. I did not stop using it, but it was my bass maker. It was not until a few years later that I got an opportunity to buy a used full 6G Doeper basic system things took off. It is as you say that you really need some amount of modules to get it going. It does not have to be complex modules. Actually I prefer simple modules that does one thing and have no menu diving. But having a mixed and 3 VCOs and a couple of LFOs and ADFSs totally change thing when you mix waveform, use some cross modulation or FM. So I think the best suggestion for starting out in Eurorack is to try and find a used system with a couple of VCOs in it. Usually it is cheaper to buy a full system cause most people want to buy "just that one special module". And as you say modules hold their value pretty good so if you buy a system with like 10 modules and end up hating 3 they are usually easy to sell off.
As for time, that is some serious deep end to open the door on our existence. Should I spend my time writing this? Should I spend time with my gear? Should I spend time with friends? In the end what matters when your time is up? Really really deep...
Thanks for sharing! Great story! :)
I think I can achieve most stuff a Eurorack does with any synth, a Polyend Seq and a bunch of effect pedals so I think that would be a good alternative. I had a Make Noise O-Coast first and found the cable stuff very confusing so before you go into Eurorack, maybe try out a Moog Mavis or DFAM - if that's already too much cable fuzz for you, stop right there!
Hey I just found your channel. I'm a fan now. so what do you think about the Berhinger system 55 set up? I'm think of getting it, but is it worth it?
Hiya! :) Thank you so much for the kind words! Much appreciate it!!! I can't say for sure since I don't own it but I've seen and heard it on videos and it looks and sounds pretty darn good next to the real Moog. This is probably also an entire video topic, which have been discussed time and time again, clone vs. real thing. And honestly, I don't thing there's a right answer. It's totally personal and whatever makes you inspired and if it saves you some wallet pain, then I'd say do it. I have a set of rules for me that I abide by to just help me make better long term decisions, especially to fight that impulsive buy, you know? So as long as it's not an impulse buy, but that it's a solid decision to help you to be more creative, why not? My only gripe about these big systems is that I'd much rather mix and match my modules and sounds than just own one kind, since by mixing and matching, I can be a little more unique and mold the sound source to my liking? Anyway, good luck! :)
I came across this video and was heartened to hear some wisdom to music tech consumers! I am sure I am not alone among those who stare at modestly large collection of modules and realize on a daily basis how LITTLE I know about the hardware I have acquired.
If you have the modular itch, try working with cheap software modular systems first. You'll get some sense of the time it takes, a sense of thinking involved, and at the end of the day of you like it, you'll realize three advantages you'll always have with software modular over HW.
1) you'll save $$$$ and time
2) you'll easily and cheaply be able to create polyphonic setups
3) saving patching for instant recall
Then there's a few other minor but significant benefits is no-cost integration with your DAW. Any patch point can be brought out into its separate DAW track, and saves space, and there's some others I'm sure I'm forgetting at the moment like more frequent updates and software patch cables, knobs and switches dont wear out. Controllers are cheap.
Some potential disadvantages depending on the individual.
1) software cannot beat the sound qualities of dedicated HW and especially true analog, but that getting closer every year now.
2) no sense of tactile, immediate hands-on control
3) more latency, but here again that's improving with each year too.
4) finally the most significant disadvantage with software as I have found throughout the years is the PC and OS issues plague applications. You'll build many modular creations that you'll want to last a lifetime, but ironically the OS and the PC hardware will eventually change where a lot of the work you did 10 years ago or even shorter simply wont run correctly or will not run at all. Many of those software companies won't support the old software on new systems, or will be long gone. But this fact may not be an issue for some who just want to get songs and the stems recorded then start over and create something entirely new never caring about remastering or remixing the old.
These disadvantages of software modular are much more subjective than modular HW.
The post was spot on re: the investment and time involved. I can attest that the modular addiction desire can easily get you way up in the $$$ stratosphere over time and every new module compounds the time availability. ( I'm hoping modules will continue to retain value and not end up as pennies on the dollar like the initial 60's CV synths did ). I hope to retire soon and will have the time to dedicate to the addiction ..
best advice is always start with semi-modular. The value will always be superior to a small number of modules. after that you can either stop there; get knee deep in modular if your budget allows; or get more semi-modulars and still get an interesting modular system. For me I started getting into it but then realised that spending so much to get a kind of standalone music making system is crazy; so I dialed it down. My approach is to have individual instruments that can work together, and with a daw. There are a few interesting sound sources I want; but in the end it's going in a pod where it'll be it's self contained instrument; along with my other semi modular synths. Also there's a lot to learn from modular approaches; and those techniques can then be used in software (with things like max for live; vcv; bitwig and so on; many options to choose from; and it can sound great too)
I needed to see this, thank you!
Thank you for making this video! I decided to hold off from Eurorack months ago to purchase an MPC LIVE II, and it was the right choice for me. Although I am familiar with modular synthesis, it's just a huge budget and requires a lot of time to learn that I know I don't have at the moment. Eventually I would love to experiment with it to enhance my sampling capabilities (with the Assimil8or for example) but I am good with what I have at the moment :)
Thanks for stopping by appreciate your comment. There were so many videos praising the accolades of the eurorack format, they sometimes forget to mention the time and cost it takes. I think like the MPC, eurorack format is a powerful tool for creatives searching for a different look, a muse, especially when you're stuck in a rut and feel like you're repeating yourself. Eurorack has certainly done that for me so there's a lot of positives. But the MPC can give you this just as well! Eurorack uniquely did help me understand some of the fundamental building blocks of sound a bit better in a way far more accessible (and fun!) then looking through Max for Live patches! :)
I decided to get mpcone first. Planning on going modular. Then got my first eurorack bits 9 months later. Everything you need is I’m the mpc, and slowly you can bring it out of the box.the target is live jam performance. The mpc range gives powerful sequencing, and you have very powerful percussion systems built in. If you pair eurorack with a usb enabled mixing desk like a tascam or studio craft, you get inserts as well, with a very cheap expansion.
Found your video and really enjoyed it! Subbed.
Eurocrack is an apt phrase. I’d agree, you need around 170hp of modules (maybe £2000 to £3500) for a workable instrument that doesn’t require a bunch of supplemental modules.
Having some semi modular stuff off on the side can be a good start.
I’d add something which is that I love playing my eurorack system but seem to make a lot less music which I would release on an album. It almost like it’s made me more into the process than the end result. When i used to use traditional synths and samplers/ drum machines etc I used to make a new album every year or two. Since getting into eurorack i haven’t made any albums. A few finished tracks but not enough to release.
to me what I do on eurorack is to press record; doing a ten minutes improvisation; and if it's not absolute shit I will dump it directly into soundcloud, no regrets; even if nobody listens to it. I have different soundclouds for different types of music. If I'm gonna do an actual composition it will be with live, I tried the SQ-64 as a sequencer and it's a chore; it will be resold quickly.
I used my Crave as a sort of main workstation for midi, sequencer, and headphones. that sitting in front of an 84HP case was pretty versatile. I don't like how clicky the Crave's buttons are, but I really like the price.
If I'd start right now, i would:
* Get some semi modular that can be inserted in a Eurorack system (recently got an east beast, that's some serious value for money there)
* Try some sequencer. I bought a NerdSeq, relatively early, but I don't really use it.
* Maybe get some USB-interface, and do some of the stuff on your computer. (Befaco AC/DC gives you 4 channel in and out of your Eurorack and isn't too expensive. You can then use for example VCV rack to do something.)
* get some small selection of multiuse modules and learn them deeply.
* get some DROID modules earlier instead of getting different modulator modules, it's a pretty great ecosystem with a nice community. Jep, the DROID master has quite a pricetag, but the getting some modulator modules adds up to the same price.
Thanks for the video. I have not actually bought any modules yet but I am going through the thinking process or what I want to get out of this. Your video appealed to me because you expressed exactly what my key motivation is: I want to get AWAY from the computer. It would have been nice to hear some other thoughts around that.
I feel I spend too much time on the computer and need something else that captures my imagination but is a bit healthier in a way. I like the idea that Eurorack is more limiting. When using it you can only do music. On the computer you can get distracted to do a million other things instead of focusing on one thing.
I tried a software synth, Pigments 5. It is a beautiful piece of software but it feels like it is not what I was looking for. I have tried playing with hardware synths in music stores and it feels more right. Software feels so limitless that you cannot manage to focus your attention on anything really. I like that the hardware has more obvious limits you need to work within and learn to master.
I am curious if others have these kinds of thoughts of feelings round the choice of hardware.... like why get hardware that costs way more, but is actually more limiting than software?
Hardware tends to be more focused and purposeful (it usually can't do everything) and generally tends to have a bit more character, and even unpredictable in the best way. They also tend to sound "better" than software emulations. But please take that with a grain of salt. :) I don't want the haters coming at me with pitchforks. lol. But having said that, most pro's I know mostly work in the box with software because it's just so much faster. And they are good enough that only in specific instances and with certain budgetary and time luxuries do they use hardware, external gear, and live performers. But most will also tell you, they try to use as much hardware as possible because they do most certainly add up to making things sound a bit "better" more "character", and more "interesting". Of course, these are all generalizations. Cheers!
EXCELLENT VIDEO! 👍
I am patiently waiting for XAOC Devices to produce more Hrad expanders to make my Praga mixer module more useful and easier to use. But no plans to buy anything this year.
Thanks. Not yet started modular. ❤
My take; start with at least a 48hp case, get a cheap out/headphone out and used Mutable clones (braids/plaits and multifunction ones like peaks, stages or tides), finish off with filters and vca's when you're comfortable.
Sounds great to me! Great advice
Back when I was starting out, I was crushing on the Arp 2600 and Roland Model 100(M) (we're talking '70s here). Just 'coz (Isao) Tomita and Wendy Carlos used a Roland Model 700 or a Moog Modular didn't mean I *needed* to. Something like a Roland SH-7 or SH-5 was more accessible... but polyphony was more important for me, particularly when I was using a 4-track Portastudio for recording.
As mentioned, the flexibility is wonderful... but it's also overwhelming.. when most of the time, you're using the 'standard' (normalized) signal path routing. O'course, it totally depends on how critical sound design is in your music making... and then, maybe you'd look at a lot more options than just a 'Eurorack' -type platform anyway.
I'd suggest to NOT simply fall for the trap of spending mega$$$ on something that is currently fashionable and will suck-up all your time... and if you have to go the Eurorack route, p'raps look at software versions first (Softube, VCV Rack, etc) and see if you'll really use all that flexibility.
as a modular user i have to say i love it. there is a lot of good shit out there and its a question of ur personal taste. also love the elektron boxes but they are exprensive too and less individual.
These are great pointers, and I appreciate that you provided alternatives instead of potentially crushing someone's dream/enthusiasm
I went as much of the DIY route as I could since I'm very capable with soldering, I quickly filled my first rack, and am now doing my best to not buy anymore modules until my current build is next to paid off lol. I'll probably end up compromising as soon as the next set of tip top Buchla modules are released :P
I'm a beginner who's split between buying the Korg Minilogue XD (~$750) or a modular setup of around the same price, and I'm wondering if you have any input on what might be the best move? On one hand, getting the Minilogue might be nice because it's just one single thing to get to know instead of a bunch of different modules, but on the other hand the customizability of the modular realm is really intriguing. Thoughts?
Ugh this is so tough because as I mentioned, modular doesn't start to make any sense until you get to the $2k ish range. (5-6 modules) I'm biased here but If you could live with not getting immediate usefulness out of it, but look to the future, I could make a case for "Plaits, Maths, and a small case which can hit your budget" knowing that your in it for the long term, learning these modules and adding as your budget allows. There will be disagreements here from others on this channel, which I'd totally respect. The korg, arturia minibrute, or Moog Mother 32, or the Make Noise 0-coast and other complete boxes could really start to make a whole lot of sense if you're looking for a box with "ready to go" sounds. I'm more of a sampler guy so I could easily make a case for an Akai MPC One, the new Roland SP 404 Mk2 (if you can find one) and those are close to your budget. There's probably and entire video episode here that could be made. :) Let me know what you think.
this video honestly helped me dodge a bullet, so thank you. it seems like modular is for folks with disposable income and lots of time on their hands. i was on the fence, researching, comparing, trying to assess if it would integrate nicely into my current all-hardware setup, and it just sounds like it'd be *another thing* to manage. genuinely, thank you for keeping me from heading down another expensive rabbit hole. and good luck to the folks with the wealth and space to take the plunge! i'm looking forward to hearing the music y'all end up making!
Honest day’s work! :)
Dude, not just another thing to manage. THE thing to manage. Got deep for 3 years. 100s and 100s of HP.
Down to 54hp. I regret not using the money to buy something like a Deckard's Dream. Could have purchased 3 of them for the amount I spent on modular. Major facepalm. Wasn't for me and my workflow, but I got lured in. It's neat, but the amount of time you devote to contemplating, swapping things out, finding the right ribbon cable... It's exhausting. I legit feel lighter now that I am almost out. Again, this is just my personal feelings/situation.
So ya, good on you.
@@saysthetedd Every time someone comments on one of my eurorack videos, I think to myself, oh yea! eurorack modules. I should be using it more! lol ugh. But now that I've really streamlined and am happy with the modules I still own, I let myself off the hook for feeling guilty about not using it as often. I think (unlike software plugins that just stop working with another OS update) these hardware tools are always there if you need them to just get going on. So yeah, I'm glad that I own them.
Stopped at 9u, and got into PureData. It's free and its all the modules I'll ever need. I was using mostly dsp modules anyways so it just makes sense for me to go back into the box. I probably won't sell my gear though. Sometimes you just need to wiggle.
The gr1 ist the reason for me too that brought me to eurorack. Amazing gear but the difference between menudiving and cv is huge
hey,
before i dived into the eurorack world i read a lot (realy a lot) of manuals. and i took the time (still today) to learn "something" about modular synthesis and the history of electronic music.
i started with an idea because i had the "need" for a special interface. this is what pushed me into eurorack. the "special" need for "my" musical expression. finaly i could realize it and now it works perfectly. and i dont have the need to expand or lets say better:
to file the hole in my heard with unnecessary stuff. because there is not satisfaction.
so: make a goal, realize it and suck all the knowledge out of it. hopefully you find a path to something beyond.
by the way, see my two videos about my realized "dream system"
bests from berlin.
Thank you for the thoughtful comment!
@@DUNGEONMUSICTHEATRE
thx you for sharing your overall thoughts and personal insides-its a great video.
Had an interest in modular for a while, mostly for the aesthetic.
But then I saw a demo of the Turing Machine and I fell in love.
I love that it's a sort of synthesis (heh) of machine and human. The machine generates, the human selects when to loop, the performance is the interplay between what the machine does and what the human does.
I'm into jazz and the whole concept of interplay has always been important to me. Being able to generate a call for me to respond to is just blowing my mind with possibilities.
Haven't actually committed to the whole rack thing though. Have some semi modulars that I can swap into a rack for a sound source once I do decide to pony up for all the rest of it.
Trying to find a way to swap tonal centers currently. Jazz moves around key areas a lot and that's the sort of thing I'm used to playing. A lot of synth stuff tends to sit in one key though and I haven't seen anything (at a glance) that looks like it would let me even do simple stuff like move around cycle 4. I'm sure there's something out there that can achieve this but it's not something I've encountered yet.
Thanks for sharing. Especially your Jazz background and tonal centers. There's a really interesting new module from Eventide called Misha that came out that might be interesting to you in this regard, especially that way you can change keys very fluidly. czcams.com/video/k07AnhhtRjw/video.html Let me know what you think!
This is why I'm sticking to small cases with a module or two each. A good chunk of my pedals and synthesizers (and even one desktop mixer i've been eyeing) already give/take CV signals anyway.
Your username bro! 😎
I'm starting with DIY and I'll move into $300 - $400 cards later :) I would have liked to see more on case size choice. My DIY case is made of old bed slats so its the width of my old single bed.
Thanks , good tuto start for .
When the Ipad first came out, I thought 'surely this is the end of hardware synthesizers' as it could emulate the look and output of any synth, but wow was I so wrong, people just love to spend money on boxes and blinking leds haha. Its the same appeal as PC building I guess, with the same expense, if not more.
I got pulled into eurorack by the Noise Engineering BIA. Im a drummer, love industrial-ish music and had always disliked most electronic drums. Then I heard the noise and grit offered by the BIA. It all seemed so easy. A case, sequencer, BIA and Im making NIN beats. As you know, thats not how it works. Ive been down many rabbit holes and learning curves. While I have had many iterations, the two most helpful things have been learning synthesis and figuring out my needs / wants. Also, Im just gonna throw out there that I think its a horrible idea to buy any musical gear to just let it self generate. Nothing wrong with generative music, but if you want to influence the modules and instruments, you gotta learn some things, including some music theory (like scales and intervals).
Big fan of Noise Engineering for sure! Thanks for stopping by! :)
@@DUNGEONMUSICTHEATRE same here I have BIA and many Noise Engineering modules they sound great, fun to use and support is great.
im in France and i like what u said...if only i had understood this years before!!
Thanks a great video. I think you guys are all crazy but I applaud you!
Whatever modules you get first, a Disting or Disting EX is a great next step. With one of those, you can find out if you need a dedicated module that carries out one of its functions. Example: I have a DFAM, and part of the EX is perma-wired as a quantiser. So a dedicated quantiser is a justified expense. Also, effects. You can buy dedicated eurorack reverbs, delays, etc, but used guitar pedals are a lot cheaper.
that's what I did. a Braids clone, a Disting and an Ornament & Crime and some other after later clones. I don't regret my choice even though a guy at Moog Audio said he hated the Disting .Yeah, I get it, they're small cramped multi-functions modules. But you don't start with Xaocs and a Buchla if you don't know if you're going to like it.
Disting is like a modular gateway drug! 😂
Started with Grandmother and can’t believe where I end up even with a ER 301, and 6 rows of 104 hp what a waste of money and time that don’t have could be one of the factors, preferred to buy a stand alone gear plus had more of the musical experience but not as deep as the sound manufacture obtained with eurorack, the DIY it’s deep too, small parts that at the age of 50 you need a microscope to see the values
I feel your pain. Thanks for sharing! :)
I started with a Grandmother, sold it twice, sold 2 complete euroracks, 3 Matriarchs . . . and now I am back to only a Grandmother and couldn't be happier. 🤔🤦🤷
Please teach do more beginner stuff
I have drum machines, synths, and effects processors
I just can’t understand modular synthesis
A Behringer 2600 (or TWO 2600 !) with a couple of pedals is a pretty fantastic and cost savvy replacement for a Eurorack modular.
I told myself something similar but here I am 100+ modules later…. :(
"... is there just a box that can do similar things?"
I recently decided to take the plunge into eurorack, as an extension of a trend I've been setting for a long time. This video fascinated me for taking a critical eye to that, but this line stood out to me. The reason I don't like DAWs is that they aren't hands-on: you're staring at a screen and manipulating a software interface that makes no bones about being a software interface.
When I tried using DAWs historically, I found my creativity just wasn't there. I could invent more with a Korg Minilogue, and since then I've had my hands on _much_ more powerful polysynths. The feeling of these is that they're instruments; complicated and customizable ones, but instruments. Being hands-on and extended in space is a virtue I have been more than willing to pay for.
Which I guess is, to your point, one answer to this question. No, there isn't a box that can do similar things, because the defining characteristic is that it isn't a box.
Well put. Thanks for sharing your thoughts! :)
The best way to go about it is probably to start with VCV Rack, and if you get along with it then purchase a semi-modular synth from Arturia, Bastl, Behringer, etc or an Erika Pico 3 system. Use a DC-coupled audio interface to send the VCV modules into the semi-modular. Best bang for buck.
Yeah VCV 2 especially has come a long way and you def can get a feel for it. There's still something about physical modules tho.
I love it, no regrets
I can confirm. I've been in and out of it twice, and the cost over time is insanity. It can be the most fun and freeing way of making music you'll ever find, but you can get bored of the oscillators or filter, and getting new stuff is always a bunch of $. Then you have to sell to fund it, and the loop starts over. If you have endless money and space, go nuts, but otherwise you have to learn a lot of self-discipline, and find ways to avoid the synthfluencers, the forums and the synth sites. This stuff is like sugar.
Viable approach: zero money and vcv rack. Also, it’s better to get 2-3 semimodular devices. It gives wide amount of features out of the box for less money + modular experience.
I love DIY, but i only build projects for fun, like MFOS. I consider making DIY version of 606, not because i need it, i just love soldering and see how a pile of parts becomes musical machine.
Thanks for sharing! :)
Someone said it best on another video that eurorack is just a hobby for music nerds. They are more about collecting and bragging rights than actual making music. Ive seen racks that cost several thousand dollars barely able to produce a sound worth putting on any track. Granted that's up to the users skill and knowledge of the synth being used but I just find them to be annoying blip machines. Blips and blops. There's nothing a rack can do that the computer can't do and more much easier. For my own synths I just got the V collection for $200 and a key lab 49mk2 for $250 used during Black Friday. It's more synth than I'll ever need. It comes with so many sounds and different virtual machines. For a 20th of what even a basic euro rack system would cost, and it's far more usable in any musical genre. I understand why people wanna go away from the computer, they are looking for that analog sound and a simpler workflow. It just never really pans out that way and end up in gear hell. The best thing I could say about modular rack gear is that it does look very cool like a spaceship control board in your studio. With all those little lights and knobs and plugs all working.
Thanks for your perspective. Yeah there will always be gear snobs unfortunately (much like car-snobs, watch snobs, computer snobs. etc..) We've living through a very blessed ( and possibly cursed) era where gear is no longer the barrier. And with AI, it's even more so, maybe? I think the differentiator, more than ever, is hard work over a long period of time, with creative and counter creative thinking. So having said that, we can talk about gear, specifically eurorack as a launch point for some people who get inspired, and thus maybe urged to work a little harder, longer, and maybe inspired with new ideas? Making music with eurorack is really backwards, honestly, like cooking with 1800 century tech. And at times, it might give you a little creative boost, a different look. That's all. It can be a hobby, but it can be a cool inspirational tech for pro's I think. I know writers who use Typewriters to get inspired. So yeah..! Cheers! :)
So here's what I recommend to other viewers: if you hear EVERY single thing in this video and you just think "YEA THAT SOUNDS ABSOLUTELY GREAT!!" then Eurorack IS for you and might be worth the investment
The great thing is, if you HATE it after a year, then you can just put all your used modules on Reverb and recoup at least 70% of your costs.
I am absolutely obsessed, and have been since I got my first Mother-32 about 5 years ago. Now up to like 100 modules
All my learning and saving has finally paid off. I'm producing my newest album (with actual singing and lyrics - beyond the ambient & techno sets I do regularly on my channel) and heavily using Eurorack to create absolutely mindblowing custom sounds, synths, leads, basses, percussion - I mean, the best thing for a songwriter is that NO ONE will have these exact sounds and I can create SUCH specific timbres and emotions for the track.
But it's a labor of love. Not just the time, costs, and learning, but also the raw technical challenge of actually producing "listenable" (whatever that means) music on this unwieldy beast of a machine
Modular has been an absolute joy for me since DAY 1 (I'm sure you can relate, looking at your collection)
Something about the obsessive musical nerdiness, mystery, and creative challenge that's so different from the attempt to develop virtuosity on piano, guitar, violin, etc...
I'm just hoping my daughter ends up wanting to inherit them when she gets older, lol
Love this! Thank you for sharing. Your passion jumps off the page and I must say I'm a kindred spirit. Please share your music with us!
@@DUNGEONMUSICTHEATRE aw thank you! takes one to know one, eh?? :3
Well feel free to delete this link, but since you asked :) here's my most recent music recording, a battery-powered outdoor ambient session on a compact 104hp of 4U modular, overlooking El Paso and Mexico!
czcams.com/video/Jk8b2pLB490/video.html
But, like I said, everything on my channel right now is just warm-up for the upcoming album, which is MUCH more ambitious and structured...
I've learned a ton about sound design and just... technical setup of the whole rack... connecting to Ableton, mixers and audio interfaces, MIDI control, sequencing.... and now I'm getting some massive and beautiful sounds for basses, leads, and pads -
Basically I'm reworking my entire album demo (which was recorded without any sound design whatsoever, on the simplest and most immediate presets that my DAW could give me at the time)
now custom-building every sound from the ground up
and really striving to fit each synth sound to a unified EMOTION and a PURPOSE within the track
trying to apply everything I've learned in the last 5 years about modular towards one single goal: getting the best possible sounds for the best possible songs, working the synth together with vocals, guitars, drums... all into a SONG, just just "sounds and bleeps and atmosphere"
The most exciting part is knowing that no one on earth is using the same sound palette - if I build a bass patch from ground up, it will be 100% unique.
Just gives a confidence boost as a songwriter / producer :)
Ahh NICU 💕 100%, I am absolutely obsessed! It's been a year, and I am very deep into modular with no plans to slow down (well, maybe slow down on giving Perfect Circuit all my money) and even a year into this, I am barely scratching the surface of this amazing form of artistic expression, sound/noise, and shattering windows. Love it more than cheesecake -- and that's sayin a lot.
@@VisionsMusicGroup Don't give all your money to Perfect Circuit!!!!!..... save some for Detroit Modular LOOL
:)
it's such a great pasttime and art form. I am absolutely in love with modular too, one of the coolest discoveries of my life.
Where were you 10 months ago?? LOL! I’ve spent a big chunk and I feel like I’m just getting into the door when it comes to creativity. Do I regret it? Not really. It’s a long story…familiar to many, but it’s been a blast. Anyway, this is a great video. You bring a logical sense to eurorack. Many thanks!!
Thanks for stopping by and appreciate the feedback! :) I think eurorack modules still offer great value to a more "specific" group of folks. It's not the most accessible system to get into. So it "can" be expensive, but that depends on how much value you can extract. I think under the right conditions, it's incredible!
was hopiong to get into euro rack and building something around arbhar but dont even know where to begin and what modules would accomidate nicely w arbhar, granular is life!!
I started with semimodular Behringer Neutron. I know... I can see so many eyes rolling "Behringer"...and you might have a point. I have another few Behringer devices that are pretty cheap built, they copy things, whatever. But for whoever wants to get into eurorack, this one is one of the best ways. Might sound that I advertise for Behringer, but judge for yourself. For 300 euros (the price of a middle-range price module) you get all eurorack synth basic functions and something more. 2X VCO with all waveshapes, 2X ADSR, 1 VCF, 1X VCA, 1X LFO with all waveshapes, 1X Delay, S&H, Noise, all patchable. There are groups for this device with lots of patch ideas to get started. In one-two months you can have an idea what is this about, and if it's not for you, you can sell it at almost the same price. Next I started to build DIY through hole modules in kits (Turing Machine is a great start!), then made my own PCBs (like Benjolin), then I learnt to solder SMD parts and that was a total breakthrough. In 3 years I built more than 100 modules for myself (actually I lost count), sold a few, exchanged for some non-DIY modules, bught a few non-DIY that are absolutely great, etc. Now looking back I realise it's complicated for someone who just enters this world, I advice you get something cheap as Neutron, see what direction you like in electronic music, if you're good with your hands maybe learn to solder, but find somebody experienced and trustful to advice you what to buy when you want to achieve a certain sound, or when you like a function, a patch or a module, there might be some cheaper or better ways around it. I found this the hard way. And yes, SH modules are just a little cheaper that the new versions and you don't totally lose those money if you want to sell them. Actually it's a good method to build a module collection.
thanks for sharing! love these epic gear adventure stories! :)
Do you release your music anywhere? What’s your Moniker?
I’ll be releasing all music from this channel on a separate channel possibly? But no plans just yet :( As for my other music, well bunch of suits at big corporations own them all so :(
I bought a small system and collected a set of modules over about 8 months. I don't like it and never use it. I really value something that is polyphonic and if I tried to make that with a modular system, it would cost more and do less then other good synths out there. I still like modular, but I'll be converting my system to FX only. Something I can run external gear through.
I recently discovered input latency when monitoring the modular through ableton. I have to admit I always jammed around for fun so far and didn't monitor or record anything ;-) Will I have latency when I record stuff and if so, how do I prevent it?
I’d have to know a bit more about your overall setup, but latency is probably your audio interface issue? Ableton or any DAW will always introduce some latency as well. If your audio interface could also have a zero latency mode where you are hearing the audio directly before it’s processed through ableton?
@@DUNGEONMUSICTHEATRE thx I just found a Video about this which seems to solve the issue using lives ext. instrument