How to PROPERLY Install Acoustic Clouds | ADAM Audio & Music City Acoustics
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- čas přidán 20. 06. 2024
- In this video, with the help of Graham from Music City Acoustics, we dive into the importance of acoustic clouds on your ceiling in your studio. Acoustic clouds are an effective form of home studio acoustic treatment to help your mixing or recording studio in many ways... they clear up stereo imaging issues, low-end build up from room modes and so much more. We also show how to properly and safely hang your studio acoustic clouds so that you can get the maximum benefits, without the fear of them falling on you while you're mixing.
Download the acoustic cloud install guide:
bit.ly/3bHGpzB
Check out Music City Acoustics:
www.musiccityacoustics.com/
Check out our past videos with Graham & MCA!
▶ • How Professional Acous...
▶ • 10 Common Questions Ab...
Timestamps:
00:00 Intro
01:00 Why are Acoustic Clouds Important?
02:28 Why are Air Gaps Important in Acoustic Treatment?
04:32 What Tools will You Need?
05:03 Installing the Clouds
18:45 Outro
19:24 Bloopers...
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ADAM Audio was founded in March 1999 in Berlin. Since then the company has been developing, manufacturing and distributing loudspeakers in the field of Professional Audio.
The development of the X-ART (eXtended Accelerating Ribbon Technology) tweeter based on the 1960’s invention of the Air Motion Transformer by Oskar Heil was largely responsible for the company’s founding. Producing sound not with a piston-like diaphragm as is done in most of the loudspeakers that are on the market, but using a pleated diaphragm that is capable of moving the air 4 times faster than the folds themselves are moving was the appealing idea behind it all. The achieved results were intriguing and gave ample reason for moving forward.
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No matter if you bought your clouds or are building your own, we hope this video helps you safely install your clouds in your studio. If you have any questions for us or Graham, leave them in the comments below 👇
I just got an email that I won !!!! Thank you !!!!!!
@Kunchang Lee Thank you for watching & entering! Hope they serve you well for years 👍
@@ADAMAudioBerlin man made my day !
Tell your friend you can use piano wire to poke check for studs instead of drilling. 👌
You forgot to mention that a greater airgap improves absorption in the 125 to 500 range and cuts it a bit in the 1000 to 3000 range precisely what's wanted to avoid a dead room in the 1000 to 5000 range.
Use a magnet to find the drywall screws. The screws will be drilled into the "center" of the WALL STUDS and CEILING JOISTS. Mark a few of the screws on consecutive studs or joist to show the framing layout, i.e. 16 inch or 24 inch spacing. It is very important to know the lay before installation.
I've been building for years, love magnets (yeah, I know..) and I've never thought of that. Thanks!
Makes you wonder how these guys hace a business doing this professionally... When he's said start drilling multiple holes till you find the "studs". I was like what!
Sure the room sounds great now, but sorry for the Swiss cheese!
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Very helpful
or just use a stud finder.
Guys: Studs are in walls.... Joists, rafters and trusses are in the ceiling;-)
No… Studs are in my bedroom 😏
😅
Well made video, very very helpful. Thanks so much!
Studs are in walls. Joists are in ceilings. Joists are often 24 inches on center.
Great point, thanks for clarifying!
By the time you get through drilling the ceiling, perhaps you could also build some Helmholtz Resonators... LOL
@@davidevans1420H-resos would only be used to supplement naturally attenuated frequencies in the room. Traps would be used to soak up standing waves, tuned to the problem frequencies.
Excellent job! You guys ROCK!
Thanks for watching, Zoran 👍
Awesome video! Thanks for posting quality stuff
Thanks for watching, Isaiah 👍
perfect timing! building my own studio right now
Best of luck & thanks for watching!
fantastic presentation he knows his stuff
Thanks for watching!
Nice Video. What do you use for insulation for clouds? And due to insulation weight and the fact they are upside down, how does fabric support weight ?
Great video!! Thanks guys!!
Thanks for watching, Ray!
I enjoyed the video; very informative. I haven’t installed a cloud (yet) but have hung a lot of drywall and would highly recommend renting a drywall lift. It’s inexpensive and makes the task an easy one-man job if you don’t have any help.
This was very educational thank u for the insight and btw I love your products they're so great. 😁 First time I heared an A7x my ears tingled with joy...💛💚
That's so great to hear! Glad you like our speakers, Naileo. 🙌
Informative!
very useful , thank you so much
Thanks for watching 👍
THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR MAKING THESE! Definitely helps with this new room for the studio! Im excited to start building
So happy you enjoyed it!
Have you got a video on making the panels? Thx
If you have plaster and lathe you can easily use some toggle bolts anywhere! You do not need to find the "studs" (I think the term this dude meant was joists). As long as you are using toggle bolts rated for the weight of the panels, also making sure you are looking at their horizontal (not vertical) rating, and you line the wings up to grip onto the lathe boards you are going to be more than okay in terms of holding power.
If you use three clouds, wouldn't it be hard to cover the first reflection points? I am about to install the clouds but if I use three, the first reflection points are like right in between the panels (at the gaps of each panel).. is this okay?
I thought of using just two but three would be better in abosorbing low end the low end?
Thanks for the great video
Hi, did you guys put the cloud absorber on the roof truss or just random places on the ceiling?
I have an old house and for some thing like that that’s not super heavy I don’t bother insisting on going into a stud or a joist. If I hit one great, if not I just use a toggle bolt which works just as well for almost everything.
Which rockwool do you recommend? the one that would be non hazardous. ...
This should totally get more likes
Thanks Sahil 👍
Brilliant video, thank you so much for taking the time and trouble to make these videos.A lot of work has gone in to all your videos.
Super helpful.. I would ideally love to see some before and after measurements .
Do you you use the same density mineral wool for the cloud diffuser as the wall hanging ones?
thanks
Just subscribed to Adam Audio and Music City Acoustics newsletter. Hope to win some clouds!
Very informative, thanks! Graham, should I always match the air gap with a 1:1 ratio, even with 8 or 10" absorbers?
Hey! So glad to hear you enjoyed the video. In general yes! The air gap will always be beneficial. In our testing we've found using denser materials beyond 10 or 12 inches can start to do some weird things, so for our deeper custom bass traps we'll use 10" of mineral wool sometimes 30" off the wall, and then fill the remaining space with fluffy insulation.
@@MusicCityAcoustics Alright thanks again!
hello ! thanks for the video, it's super useful but i can't open the guide
Seeing this three years later. Guess I can’t enter to win these panels anymore
Do you need diffusers too?
How heavy are those panels? Around 45lbs each?
For apartments - what about installing a cloud on stands from the floor?
Hi! My celling is 8 foot from the floor, and my main issue in my room right now is at 100 - 200hz . Is it ok to mount a 2" lets say 4" away from the celling? I know there is a compromise but that 100 - 200hz region is so anoying. thanks
Do you have any tips on where to find some details for ceiling clouds WITH LED lights (and vent grill) built in to them?
Hi Gregory! You can check online retailers, acoustic solution providers, or custom manufacturers.
Nice! I loved the part of the tutorial where you teach us how to turn our ceiling into a cheese-grater.😂 No, really, cool video, most of it is basic common sense but you show some good tips.
At least it is the small hole side of the cheese grater. Glad you enjoyed the video!
😂 Thanks for watching, Marcel! You could say the tips were... gouda. We'll see ourselves out.
I was picturing Swiss cheese...
Hi,
i dont wanna necessarily have to leave a 10 cm air gap, because it will shrink the room to much
Great video, very helpful. At the end of the video you mentioned angling the rear of the cloud upward if wanted. Is there a reason someone might do that or is it just cosmetic?
Great video! A more in depth video than the majority here. I really enjoyed it. However, I have to be “that guy”… The “studs” in the ceiling are called joists. A ceiling joist. Similar to a floor joist but in the ceiling rather than the floor. Studs are for walls. Thanks for the video!
How important it is to drill holes according to the joists? Would the clouds fall down if I simply hang them without worrying about finding the joists?
@@axel.lessio It would be recommended to get Toggle Bolt Anchors if you're planning to place the hooks through the drywall.
Are 2" ceiling panels useless? And are more clouds better than just one above my head? )
Hi DerHova!
For any other information, you can contact Music City Acoustics, they´ll be happy to answer your questions via this form www.musiccityacoustics.com/contact-us
Hello! Can you help me. Can't find info around net. So can i made ONE big cloud ceiling panel instead using 3 as in the video? And why you have gaps between 3 panels (i'm not about ceiling gap). Thanks for answer!
Hi there! You can find guidance in this link www.musiccityacoustics.com/installation-guides
It's actually a "joist" if a framing member is in a floor system, or ceiling (rafter roof). "Studs" are always vertical and found only in walls. .
Would 4 inch clouds work?
With this and other videos I've noticed from you guys I can't seem to download the install guide. Did you stop it from working?
Hi jlow!
You can find the guide in this link www.musiccityacoustics.com/installation-guides
I have a fan in the centre of the room (presently in Goa, India). It's usually off, since I installed A/C for the gear. How to deal with the metal reflections and the mass of the fan removing the ability to cover the absolute centre?
remove the fan maybe ^^
How would you install clouds on a cathedral/vaulted ceiling?
Might be a silly question but... I'm a drummer with a small finished basement (8ft ceiling/lots of corners) and do not plan on recording. All of the acoustic help pages I have visited imply this is for recording purposes so I'm having a hard time understanding if this would benefit me in any way. I'm all for making my set up sound better, but for the investment (time & money) would this be worth any LIVE sound improvement that I might get out of it?
If you don’t plan on recording then the amount of acoustic treatment would be up to you. But, yes, treating your playing space would help make you hear your instrument with minimal reflections. I had an unfinished basement with just block walls. I section off a space with a cheap moving blanket curtain I made with a cheap cheating track from Amazon that has clips I clipped to the moving blankets making a curtain. I also bought a 6 pack of 2” OC703 insulation, made 6 2” panels, and hung them in my space. My partitioned space was about 13’x15’ but the entire basement was about 34’x50’. To “treat” the rest of the basement I set up stacks of big empty cardboard boxes to act as acoustic panels. It made a significant difference to how the overall kit sounded compared to the big empty cement block space I was working with. Especially with the high-end like cymbals and hats. I did nothing to the ceiling which was mostly bare floor joists but my area did have a dilapidated tile ceiling which I did not treat. The floor was bare concrete and my kit sat on a thin rug. At the end of the day, I thought it sounded good to my ear.
Considering your basement is finished, I’m assuming it has drywall, trim, doors, and a floor covering be it hardwood, laminate, or carpet. If so, your already most of the way there. If you have carpet, your entire floor is already pretty much “treated” for some mids and a lot of highs. And, beyond going into a legitimate sound proofing situation, you’re only really going to be controlling some mid and a lot of high frequencies. Luckily, for a non recording situation, that’s about all you need to treat for. Like I said above, in your situation you would just be treating to tighten up your rooms sound to your ear. Again, I don’t know your spaces setup but, it never hurts to put up some acoustic panels just to tame those mids/highs.
As a quick experiment, to witness the effects of some simple acoustic treatment and to see if investing in a more professional solution is right for you, you can collect a lot of clothes from your home and hang them up and around in your space. A bunch of clothes hanging up is actually rather good acoustic treatment for some mids and a lot of highs. If you notice a positive effect, then you’ll have a better idea on what you need to do with your space to make it more pleasant to play in.
Good luck man!
So do you perform live in your basement or do you use speakers? If it's the former then you should be good without any treatment, if it's the latter I suggest you do some research on room acoustics and make an informed decision. Yes, treatment can make a room drastically sound better, but it can also make things sound worse. Generally, the ceiling is a good place to treat due to it being a source of very early reflections. You want to balance the clarity and dryness of your room when treating it. Usually trapping bass and diffusing mids and highs is a good idea. I suggest thick broadband absorption and no foam whatsoever.
Cymbals sound so much better with acoustic treatment in the drum room. Even if it's just a few area rugs hung on the walls surrounding the kit.
What I've often wondered recently with clouds, is why there isn't something like a set of boom-mike style heavy duty stands that could be placed in the room's corners, that then interlock & criss-cross above you? Like a sort of scaffold cradle, if that make sense. Then you could hang clouds from that, instead drilling through the ceiling A complete non-destructive way of doing it. That would make it a lot easier and means you can put them up in any space, without having to worry getting permission etc. I'm surprised that doesn't seem to exist, from what I can tell.
Hi Oliver, sounds like a great idea but the stands would have to be like small cranes and be incredibly heavy to counterbalance the weight. I'd love to see something like you're describing though!
Check out the Attack Wall by ASC
I’ve seen that done DIY, but it’s expensive and time-consuming
Installation guide link is broken may be. not working. Please take a look
Why the panels are so thick?! Did they use double rockwool filling?!
What if your only light source is a cloud light in the middle of the ceiling?
those look nice...
so, don't go around drilling 5 holes to find a stud. use a magnet to locate the screws (neodymium ones work great) and mark the locations.
use fixture chains for anchoring (small chains for suspending lights). it's cheaper and offers greater flexibility w/ positioning...
HI! will acoustic clouds block steps noises from above?
Hi Sebastian! No. Acoustics panels / clouds are intended to fix the room acoustics (the inside sound) but are not working as soundproofing. Your sound would still go out and the external will come in.
If you don't want external sounds inside your room, you'll need to soundproof all the walls, ceiling and floor.
Ian is so much more mature than he was in his smosh career in the past
5:13 I feel like I've heard somewhere that you don't wanna sit in the center of your room, and also I've definitely heard a lot about the 38% rule. So should you sit in the center or about 38% into the room?
Hi @kennylux! That´s right, an ideal listening positioning would be in the center between the left and right wall and about 38% into the length of the room.
@@ADAMAudioBerlin Oh that's what you meant, ok thanks :)
How do you deal with vaulted ceiling and what works best for cloud panel sizes and thicknesses.
What if your plasterboard is dot and dab on concrete?
If you have very high ceilings 12’…. Are ‘clouds’ better than installing so they hang vertically?
Hi J!
When dealing with a room with very high ceilings, like 12 feet, there are several factors to consider when deciding between using acoustic clouds or installing acoustic treatments vertically on the walls. Both options have their advantages and disadvantages, and the choice depends on various factors, including the room's acoustics, aesthetics, and intended use.
Acoustic Clouds:
-Suspension: Acoustic clouds are typically suspended from the ceiling and hang horizontally. They are designed to absorb and diffuse sound reflections from the ceiling, creating a more controlled acoustic environment.
-Sound Control: Acoustic clouds are effective at reducing ceiling reflections, which can help improve speech intelligibility, reduce echo, and enhance the overall acoustic quality of the room.
-Aesthetics: Acoustic clouds can be designed in various shapes and sizes, making them visually appealing and allowing for creative design options. They can also be customized to blend with the room's decor.
-Flexibility: They are relatively easy to install and can be adjusted to different heights, making them adaptable to various room configurations.
Vertical Acoustic Treatments:
-Wall-Mounted Panels: Vertical acoustic panels installed on walls can also effectively control sound reflections, especially those coming from the walls themselves. They are often used to address early reflections, which can improve the listening experience and reduce acoustic issues.
-Aesthetics: Wall-mounted panels can be designed to complement the room's decor, and they come in various styles, colors, and materials. They can blend seamlessly with the wall or serve as decorative elements.
-Functionality: Vertical acoustic treatments can address a broader range of acoustic issues beyond just ceiling reflections. They can help with flutter echoes, standing waves, and overall room acoustics.
-Installation: Installing vertical panels on walls may be easier and more practical in some cases, especially if the room's ceiling is very high and difficult to access.
The choice between acoustic clouds and vertical acoustic treatments depends on your specific acoustic needs and design preferences. In a room with very high ceilings, you might find that a combination of both approaches is beneficial. For example, you can use acoustic clouds to address ceiling reflections and vertical acoustic treatments on the walls to control other acoustic issues.
So … did they actually make a difference? Measurements?
When you install these clouds, make sure to also install some umbrellas too, for when it starts raining.
Hi @dragonstone6594! Good point, why is that never mentioned? 🤔😄
What if I don't have a ceiling at all?
Homeless bums shouldn’t have to worry about acoustic panels
Magnets, my friend, use magnets to find studs and joists.
I'm a little shocked a stud finder wasn't used before randomly drilling till you hit one. That seems like a highly amateur move, honestly. For anyone watching, use a stud finder instead of just drilling holes till you hit a joist.
Hi Clint, as Graham mentioned, the ceilings were all plaster and a stud-finder didn't work in this application. We certainly wish it would have worked as well!
Pdf is no longer available 😢
I just seen that
Hi there! You can find the guide in the following link www.musiccityacoustics.com/installation-guides
@@ADAMAudioBerlin thank y’all 🙏🏽
Holy stud finder stay away from my ceiling ;)
never heard of a studio having a level cloud. most professional studios i’ve been in are sloped toward the back wall.
How much slopped?
@@studiosingyourstyle any angle, as long as it’s not parallel with the floor. I imagine the steeper the greater effect on low end, but may be negligible
joists**
Seems none of the acoustic treatment videos are scientific in nature nor measured in results. There is no discussion about which treatment (thickness or material ) controls what frequency by how much or how much for example an air gap improves/dampens with metrics not assertions.
Also, while guilford of Maine acoustic fabrics are acoustically transparent, not sure why that is a benefit in a dampening situation. Non transparent fabric would be contributing to the dampening right? Guilford of Maine fabric is definitely attractive in appearance fabric in any case.
I agree these videos are usually light on science and citations. While I am all for treating ceilings, room treatment should definitely not be embarked upon without prior research and measurements, it's very far from all cure all.
You want acoustically transparent fabric so the sound waves can pass through it and be damped by the material inside the panel. Non-acoustically transparent fabric would reflect higher frequencies.
@@bathynomusgiganteus2916 I mean it’s CZcams, not an academic journal. I prefer JSTOR for my research.
@@kylesmith9048 I challenge someone to run a spectrum graph and of a fabric that would reflect. I expect fabrics to have dampening effect.
@@theige01 Maybe if you pour water on them.
I don't believe those panels aren't going to absorb that much below 125hz and for floor to ceiling problems. With 7ft to 9ft ceilings, you are going to have Axial modes in the 65hz to 75hz range, so those panels are NOT going to treat those low frequencies. There are panels that will absorb down to 65hz, but they are more like 7inch thick and they use 6inches of open cell foam with a perforation panel in front.
The issue with acoustics is finding the right type of treatment, how much and placement. First you have to conduct measurements to figure out the nature of the problem and then pick the right type of treatment and then calculate how MUCH treatment you'll need and where to place them.
The panels in the video may not actually treat the floor to ceiling problems in that room.
Andrew Garfield?
i would be livid if you drilled 40 holes in my ceiling man come on, it's not that hard to find studs. if you cant knuckle knock a stud then put down the power drill.
use magnets to find the mounting metal nails or screws wtf ppl
Please don't just go drilling holes in your ceiling... There are much better ways to do this.
4:52 why do the disembodied eyes with no face jump into the shot? What's with the ridiculous mask??? Very creepy.
So long-winded in every sentence, a real snake-sleeper!
Those aint studs… they’re dwangs…😂. Studs are vertical.
2:55 is completed nonsense... and allready busted. do your homework..... reality is airgap max 50mm everything above... does not work in reality, only in theor...
They're not studs in the ceiling, they're joists. the fact this guy doesn't know the difference does not inspire confidence. I also watched him construct a panel in another video. The quality of construction was amateur at best.
I honestly don't know why ADAM Audio would want to be associated with this.
6:42 ... bro, you're not qualified to be giving advice.
15:27 ... -_^
16:11 saw this coming a mile away
These guys make normal word's to professional and that's weird and I cringe 😶
Brah, don't be one of those woke critters that wants to change the definitions of words. Verical framing are studs. The horizontals are joists. The angled boards in a vaulted ceiling are rafters. You'll sound a whole lot more professional when consulting with contractors and architects.
hello, I am building an acoustic panel, i build the wood frame and stuff with rock wool sound insulation.
HOWEVER, i use vapor barrier to wrap the whole thing, not the fabric which you use here. AND i find out the panel wont help too much, is it because the vapor barrier wont absorb the sound? it block the sound, which make my acoustic panel useless..And i have to use fabric to wrap. Thank you