Colt Walker vs. .357 Magnum
Vložit
- čas přidán 9. 09. 2024
- In this video, I’ll use a chronograph to determine whether or not the .357 magnum cartridge is really more powerful than the maximum load for the Colt Walker revolver. Be sure to subscribe to my channel for more videos. Thanks for watching!
__________________________________________________
GUNS OF THE WEST PRODUCTS
gunsofthewests...
__________________________________________________
SPECIAL OFFERS
Use coupon code GOTW for a $10 discount on your concealed carry permit class! Click here: mylegalheat.co...
Don't carry a gun without insurance! Join U.S. Law Shield today: www.uslawshiel...
Discounted NRA membership: membership.nra...
__________________________________________________
FOLLOW ME ON SOCIAL MEDIA
Facebook: / gunsofthewestllc
Instagram: ...
__________________________________________________
PATREON
BIg thanks to those who support this channel on Patreon! To become a patron, click here: www.patreon.com/GunsOfTheWest
__________________________________________________
CONTACT ME
Guns of the West, LLC
P.O. Box 544
West Jordan, UT 84084
Email: gunsofthewestllc@gmail.com
Check out the Guns of the West store here: gunsoftheweststore.com
I don't think anyone believed the outcome would have been any different than what it was. But really, the Colt Walker was still impressive considering the crab apples to red delicious comparison. Everything from the precision cartridges and smokeless powder, to the finely machined Taurus, should have left the Colt Walker in the dust. But the Colt Walker held its own, in my opinion, competing with slow burning black powder, round lead ball, and a not so perfect revolver, even as it was a reproduction. The Colt Walker was King for a long time and for good reason. It was a monster.
For 90 years from 1847 to 1937 when the .357 magnum cartridge was invented the colt walker was the unrivaled king of all American handguns as far as stopping power goes. It would be interesting to compare the .357 magnum load to the .45-55 black powder cartridge walker load that leverguns50 channel uses in his kirst konverted walker like yours
Very good idea.
I always find the information you share useful. You put into three plus minutes what others take 15 minutes to get out
And without the stupid White Gloves..😊
Keep in mind that today's .357 is downloaded from what it was originally. I have several old manuals that push a standard weight bullet in excess of 1500fps.
Some companies still load this way: Buffalo Bore, for example.
@@ironmikehallowween and yet people will claim they are unsafe, etc. Like Buffalo but you can get other similarly hot loads cheaper. Find myself not wanting to shoot my Buffalo rounds given how pricey they are.
The original loading was a 158 grain bullet at 1510fps. Right around 800 FPE.
Pretty sure they were testing off the shelf Walmart ammo for these readings...
470 Ftlbs of energy is still more than acceptable today. Thanks for the video.
It sure is! Thanks for watching!
The Uberti Walker has quality steel construction, and is strong enough to push beyond charges that the original Walker Colt would likely be unsafe to shoot with.
During 1847 production, Whitney had mistakenly built a lot of earlier production Walker revolvers with iron or low carbon steel cylinders. This meant that original Walkers would often rupture cylinders when using black powders finer grained than "musket (2Fg)" grade. So to simulate that ballistics that an original Walker would be safely capable of, the Uberti Walker should be fired only with FFg "musket" black powder.
With all Dragoon revolver production, Samuel Colt had total control of production and so all Dragoons were built with quality steel cylinders, and according to Colt loading instructions, "...were safe to fire with fine grain powder, whether the powder be strong or weak...". Pistol powder in the 19th Century was 4Fg granulation, and was never called "Flintlock priming powder" because such a thing was unheard of as it did not exist in the 19th Century. Flintlocks were primed with a bit of the main charge, as had always been done since flintlocks were available. [NOTE, in the 19th Century 2Fg is musket powder, 3Fg is rifle powder, 4Fg is pistol powder and 5Fg is Cartridge Powder for use in revolver combustible envelope cartridges. Hazard developed the "Cartridge Powder" in 1855 at the request of Samuel Colt, as Colt was beginning production of what would become revolver combustible cartridges. The only modern 5Fg available at present is Swiss Null B. Revolver combustibles typically used a charge of around 10% conical bullet weight, due to the higher velocities generated by the fast combustion of such extremely fine grain black powder].
So the Dragoon Colt revolvers, in the 19th Century were really the most powerful "revolving pistols" of that era. Hazard Powder Company's "Number One Pistol Powder" was a high performance black powder made from willow charcoal, and in the 4Fg granulation of "Pistol Powder", would have provided an extremely powerful load at the standard maximum Dragoon charge of 40 grains of powder under a 220 grain conical bullet. Propelled by such fine grain powder, Dragoon revolver Muzzle Velocities would exceed 1100 fps for the 220 grain conical bullet and deliver a striking force greater than the original 1935 load of the 357 Magnum rated from an 8.375 inch barrel of a 158 grain bullet at 1450 fps (738 ft lbs ME). At 1100 fps the 220 grain conical is rated in ME at 591 ft lbs.
There is a common misunderstanding, perpetuated by ammunition companies, that ME is the striking force of the bullet. Bullet striking force(BSF) is obviously a derivative of ME, but BSF is not the same force as ME, and this can be quickly proven by firing at a Ballistic Pendulum.
If the 357 Magnum 158 Gr at MV of 1450 fps, rated at 738 ft lbs ME is fired at a 100 pound Ballistic Pendulum, it will move the pendulum at 3.93 inches per second impact velocity. The Dragoon revolver charge of 40 grain 4Fg, 220 grain conical at MV of 1100 fps (591 ft lbs ME) will move the 100 pound Ballistic Pendulum at 4.15 inches per second impact velocity. I would argue the Dragoon Colt is the more powerful handgun over the 357 Magnum, as the BSF is greater. (NOTE the actual MV of the 40 grain 4Fg Dragoon load is higher than 1100 fps, but I'm using the lower MV to illustrate the point).
What ME actually measures is the calculated theoretical "Horsepower" of the powder charge required to accelerate the given bullet weight to the stated muzzle velocity, against the resistance of aerodynamic and gravitational forces. The 738 ft lbs of the 357 Magnum is 1.34 HP generated by the powder charge to accelerate the 158 gr bullet to 1450 fps. The Colt Dragoon charge generates 1.07 HP to accelerate the 220 gr bullet to 1100 fps. This all comes into focus when you remember that to accelerate a 158 gr bullet from 1000 fps to 1500 fps, 50% greater velocity, requires 2.25 times (225%) MORE energy. (To accelerate a given bullet weight to twice the velocity requires FOUR times the energy from the propelling charge).
I've got a loose Uberti Walker(my fault, I learned) after a few hundred rounds using 3F 777. Stronger steel? maybe, I wouldn't push your luck tho. Unless you want a loose wedge and a frame that is almost deadlocked together after every trip to the range.
@@thickoc4539 Properly casehardening a Uberti Walker / Dragoon frame and arbor like the original Colts would really strengthen the open top Colt design. It would require removing the arbor so that the interior frame threads and the arbor threads were properly hardened before assembly. That being said, even with proper casehardening technique, I feel the open top Colt design, even the more massive arbor and frame of the Walker / Dragoon is limited in ability to handle higher power loads. In either the Walker or Dragoon, even properly hardened, I would keep 250 gr conical velocities around 1000 fps, and 220 gr conicals at 1100 fps max. (In the Colt 1860, I keep 220 gr conicals at 950 fps max, but run most loads at under 900 fps, staying in 45 ACP power range. I feel the Remington design is plenty stout enough to push 220 gr conicals beyond 1000 fps). The .44 revolvers are actually quite powerful anyway when kept to these limits, so it is pointless to push these old designs beyond that.
@@63DW89A I've never actually chronographed the rounds, just loaded what they called for, but I was using hotter powder. 55 grains for roundball and 45 grains for those 260 grain Sugarloafs. In my limited experience, I've treated my cap and ball revolvers all the same. Using what was recommended by the Army at the time, And my Ubertis kinda stretched out. I've even gonna as far as to Max out my 1860 army(pietta) regularly with 40 grains under a roundball and have had no stretching, no problems with the wedge, cylinder gap, or anything really. I've had to replace the flat spring that keeps pressure on the bolt/trigger but I honestly think that was just regular wear and tear.
Nice comparison. Modern guns... what can you say. I can regularly get a 200 gr conical just shy of 1,100 fps in my Dragoon which comes in at around 527 ft/lbs. Not a .357, but not far off either. Of course, the Taurus tracker weighs only slightly over half what the Dragoon weighs. Still working on how to conceal carry it.... :-) Keep up the great work.
Great video. Thanks for posting. I have a Walker and several .357s so I feel ready for most anything,
Remember Dustin the first rule of CZcams colt fan Club. Is you never talk about youtube colt fan club. 2nd rule you never embarrass the walker. You should have done what most 2023 scientists would have done with this dilemma, and just flipped the numbers😁.... Great test its nice to finally see this done. Also that Taurus is a nice revolver. Wonder if it comes in high polish stainless.
Well, your test proved your opening statement beautifully: "The Colt Walker was among the most powerful [UNTIL] the advent of the .357 magnum in the 1930's. I've seen a similar test where a "warm-loaded" .45 Long Colt beat the Walker, but not by very much. Not by enough of a margin where any 4-legged, nor 2-legged critter, would be able to discern the ballistic difference on the receiving end of either. Considering the age of the Walker design, that performance is still impressive as hell, and I gotta tell you: I still wouldn't care to be on the receiving end of what a Walker can dish out, as it were. Nice test! To reiterate, it certainly bears out the age-old statement about the Colt Walker design.
Awesome test
I still haven't fired my Walker and I'm a big fan of .357 but I believe the Walker will be more fun too! Cool video Dustin!
I found this video both entertaining and useful.😉
I too prefer the Walker before the magnum. You are so right!
That's a great test!
Hey Dustin, I was at Lagoon the other day and stumbled on something in Pioneer Village I had never noticed before. They have a building full of "guns of the west" as you would say. Plenty of old revolvers, repeaters, black powder and even some small cannons. Might be a cool thing to do a video about.
That’s a good idea! I saw that last summer and thought it was pretty cool. I didn’t look at the display for long though because we were hurrying to Rattlesnake Rapids. LOL!
Do you have numbers for the Walker with a heavier conical?
Dang, that was a close race! Imagine if it was beefed up for smokeless gunpowder!
Thank you. Great video as always.
Scary thing is, I'm pretty sure that was a weak 357 load. Most chronograph testing for 357 these days comes out of a 4 inch barrel. That thing has a 6-1/2, and it still only scored an average of 1300 fps. Even with 158 grain bullets, the 357 can hit speeds of 1400 or even 1500 (or so the legend says, as it was told in the time long ago).
‘Well… Mister Josie Wales…’
The 44 black powder load had a good long run. Hey Dustin, which noise-canceling earbuds are you using?
The earbuds are Glory Fire. I just recently started using them and I think they’re great!
Thank you for the info. I've always enjoyed your videos. I'm sure you've helped a lot of people get started and understand better black powder guns.
All things being equal, I would have preferred to see non-jacketed lead round nose or semi-wadcutter in the .357. .357 happens to be one of my go to rounds. But I do love my black powder guns as well.
Awesome video!
I beleave that I would like the old walk more lol
Try 45/50 pellets in walker
So genuine question. I seen another video that showed a historically accurate 260gr conical with 50gr 3f black powder moving average 1020fps, meaning an average of 601ftlb of energy on target. Why is the 357 considered more powerful if the walker isn't being used to its fullest potential?
I know modern 357 isn't as hot as it used to be, and if it was loaded to true max, it would still beat out the walker. It would still be a more fair comparison, IMHO.
Genuinely looking for an answer here.
Nice Taurus! I love the cowboy guns.
Try 160gr. Hard Cast SWC with15.5 plus or minus .5 gr. of 2400 powder or a full load of H110 /W296 Ball.I haven't Crono'd it out of my Tracker but it sure works in my 6" Ruger Security Six and has for 40 yrs. Lot's of Punch and accurate out to 80 yds. on a Man size Sillouete Two Hands Standing with no Rest.
Another great video, thank you. I've been watching your videos for a number of years and I appreciate the work and time you put into your CZcams channel. I have learned a lot over the years, thank you. I have even started doing my own CZcams channel on black powder firearms.
Take care and look forward to the next video.
Next, 380 acp vs 36 caliber black powder! I have both and they seem similar as far as target impact and damage goes. The communist governor of NY shut down all of the public ranges, privately owned ranges don't allow black powder guns so I need someone in a free state to do a good side by side comparison. Thanks!
GOTW rocks!
Thanks for video, Walker impresingly powerfull as for historical piece 🏇
Great day on the range!👍🏽😀❤️🇺🇸
Which do you like better
Dustin, which had the tighter group?
My historical full load black powder 45 colt beats both of those easily. So whoever originated the statement that "the walker was the most powerful handgun until the 357 mag" was obviously ignorant. 250 grain bullet over 40 grains of 3f powder gets the bullet going well over 1050fps. My fastest that ive tested so far was 1085fps. Thats 653 ft-lbs
Good Wowk.
So what u thinking on them chap maker tho?
The Walker with it’s smoke show is definitely still the funner revolver.
Agreed!
I know it's a but off topic but I received what I believe to be a remington pattern cap and ball revolver. A friend gave me just a box full of parts. I can't seem to find kit assembly instructions anywhere on any websites. Could you possibly point me in the right direction for this?
Now for the real question, up until what point did people use the Walker? Because they must have known it was the most powerful for a long time, before this came around.
I was thinking you can use 55 grains of powder out of your Walker Colt revolver shooting a 200 grain carnacle bullet then using proydex pistol powder and see what your chronographed and read on that You are using a round ball now let's see what you can do with a carnicle bullet all right I'm just curious
Put bp in the .357. Level the playing field.
The walker pistol, or the dragoon
What kind of ear protection do you use?
I recently started using Glory Fire. I’m happy with them.
You left off the mass of the Walker projectile..............140gr
👍🏼
👍
Muito legal 👏👏👍👍🇧🇷🇧🇷
Well presented Dustin, and as you pointed out, the Walker was not that far behind. Interesting to note the difference in velocity of the .357 factory ammunition, I guess that is a symptom of mass production. I'll close with the observation that the Walker's classic looks make it a far more handsome firearm than its modern cousin.
As I set here loading my fifty caliber flint lock pistol with seventy grains of fff- the walker is the most powerful what?😅
Revolver..?
@@Dr_Wrong American revolver?
Miltary sidearm.
Bear in mind, there's 6 chambers. There's 360 grains of powder sitting in the weapon at any given time, doled out over six shots.
@@BogeyTheBear military? When and who was it issued to? Side arm? Horse pistol- to bulky and unwieldy for the average trooper of the ninth tenth century. As far as multiple shots go, my twenty two holds forty rounds. Does that make it more powerful than a forty four? Don’t get me wrong, I love the old Colts but I prefer to see things as they really are. The Patterson and the Walker were great steps forward in the development of revolvers, but they were not military grade weapons by any means. Not even in the nineteenth century.
Does it matter? The pistols were about killing. You'd do better to shoot straight and fast.
"Power" is for peace-time braggadocio ..
_"My gun would make you 951% dead, but yours would only make me 798% dead! Don't even talk about .22LR! only 175% DEAD! hahahahaha wimp!"_
🤣🤣
haha, just have fun shootin' and be happy nobody's shootin' back.. 😀😀
ps.. howdah, Lancaster, Ithaca, TP-82.. js
👌👌👍👍
When the irradiated cannabalistic devolved humanoids of the post-Apocalyptic future come, you'll prefer the .357!
😆👍
Actually .357 is too powerful and it'll blow your eardrums out! Ask anyone who was a highway patrolman in the '80s!
No you won’t, this isn’t the walking dead. Ammo isn’t infinite and can be hard to make when you or anyone else you know has no knowledge on how to make bullets