Willing to Bear 80 Billion Compensation, Still Cutting off C919 Engines! Will This Tactic Work?
Vložit
- čas přidán 13. 10. 2023
- According to French media reports, the order count for China's domestically produced large aircraft C919 has reached 1,061, with a total order value exceeding 700 billion, "likely to completely end the era of Boeing and Airbus dominance." Under the strong impact of C919, the performance of the American aviation "giant" Boeing has seen a rare negative growth, with over 4,000 aircraft facing a "cancellation wave," setting the highest loss record in 50 years. Currently, Boeing executives are seeking assistance from US Commerce Secretary Raymond to curb the development of China's commercial aviation project by cutting off the supply of C919 engines. So, what engines does C919 actually use? Is it true that China's domestically produced large aircraft are assembled using foreign parts? Is the tactic of cutting off aircraft engines effective in curbing China's commercial large aircraft development? Today, I will share my views with everyone.
As we all know, despite the advanced technology of C919, there are still many doubts, one of which is the relatively low domestication rate of C919, at only 60%. Critical components like engines require imports, so it cannot be considered "fully domestic." How should we approach this issue?
Is the domestication rate important? First, I'd like to share my perspective. Those who question the low domestication rate of C919 are generally non-experts. Commercial products are not military products; they prioritize product performance rather than domestication rate. For commercial products, what matters is selling well, and that's what defines real quality. Therefore, no aircraft manufacturer pursues this metric. Airbus and Boeing also have low domestication rates; Boeing 737 is only 50%, and Boeing 787 is just over 30%. As for Airbus, it's even more of an international brand. - Věda a technologie
Sanctions against Russia over Ukraine have not hurt Russia but have really hurt Europe most.
European leaders don't know that
@@basook6116Those politikian certainly know what's going on, it's just they are more concern on their politkal career and merits, most importantly, what they pocket.
@@MMLL369 you are correct...
@@basook6116 The European leader know sanction hurt Europe for sure. But they only care for the votes. As long as polulist is against China, they will do it
The majority of financial analysts expect Russian GDP to grow 2x-3x faster than EU, almost certainly because of the sanctions. EU countries permanently lost cheap energy supplies, whereas Russia immediately found buyers.
Did US never learn from the chips case? US will regret it very deeply if try to cutting off the C919 engine... When China can self sufficient the passangger plane, nobody will buy Boing anymore...
And also Air bus.😂😂😂
let’s be honest the west is only knows how to make decisions that will accelerate its decline… they don’t understand that if they want to survive they must SHARE their technology and CREATE new markets otherwise they won’t be able to rescue themselves from their bad reputation 😊
@@akhlaqmallick9473 China still needs Airbus for widebody dual aisle planes to fly international routes, and also as an healthy global alternative to Boeing. China wants Airbus to dominate Boeing in those markets where the Comac C919 doesn't sell.
Chinese-manufactured aircraft may have difficulty landing in the developed world for future sanctions as a terrorist state.
Those who accuse low C919 low domestication rate are Boeing and airbus fanboy who selective pick their points when some airbus and Boeing even has a lower domestication rate.
Don't forget that c919 has many critical foreign components. Many avionics (things like computers and integrators) components are made by American or European companies.
@@112313 so as boeing and Airbus but troll will also never admit that is a problem but only problem for C919.
@@112313 u r the one!
The C919 is a great starting point for China to decouple from the US by removing all dependencies on US technologies. When that happens, the C919 will be a sanction-proof product and there will be significant interests from the Global South for such a product.
A mainland Chinese was called the father of BOEING because he's the chief engineer there, now he and the rest of the engineers have been back in China since Donald TRump's tenure during Covid 19 pandemic.
Very important. Every plane sold needs a maintenance team equipped with spares. Boeing has such facilities in most countries. The C919 will still require some US components but the number is diminishing. The Global South can look forward to support industries for Chinese planes being set up in their countries without reference to the US.
Sanctioning C919 engines..to China will pushed China to produce 100% local parts for d airplanes. Zhongguo * Jia You **.. Confident you can do it.. Just like Huawei did it.. ❤❤❤❤❤
China should go 100% domestic supply otherwise, the US will embed some defect in a supplied part to cause a crash.
The C919 release and production plan was almost certainly delayed so to prepare a de-risking / decoupling plan. Right now, the C919 integrates a huge amount of Western technology, much like how a German automobile-maker integrates a vast number of supplier-developed subcomponents onto a German chassis. However, if you look at current Chinese leading practice with Huawei and BYD, they're using almost entirely domestic-produced components, nothing imported and nothing American. Huawei and BYD are effectively sanction-proof. Presumably, China has the ability to fully indigenize the C919 with domestic components, but is waiting to see if they can get international approval before switching over.
China has been able to grow single crystals turbine blades. Recently it has successfully produced high strength carbon fibre. It is rapidly trying to develop its own engine for the C919 and C929. The more the US tries to suppress China, the more China needs to be self-reliant.
China previously depended on Russian engines for their fighter jets, but has switched over to indigenous domestic-built engines in past few years. More significantly, China just switched the Xian Y-20 military cargo jet to Chinese WS-20 high-bypass engines. China can probably have domestic engines ready for the C919 within a year or two, if necessary.
@@ZweiZwolf Aircraft jet engines cannot be created in just 5 years. The most important spec of a jet engine is its period between maintenance. For passanger jet the period between maintenance is 10,000+ hours. Otherwise the engine becomes a problem for commercially viable exploitation of the aircrafts with such engine.
When the new engine parts can survive only 200-500 hours you have some engine engineering sample that cannot be named a product. Each iterative development stage may last half a year. If development has 10-20 stages it takes many years to reach desired specs from engineering sample.
@@alexanderbelov6892 The point was that Comac would have domestic options, rather than being forced to shut down for several years or decades as the Americans might wish.
@@ZweiZwolf If USA stops parts supply the aircrafts built with USA parts will have trouble.
@@alexanderbelov6892 Only for a little while. China produces a full range of high precision aircraft parts for Airbus, Boeing, and Chinese indigenous military aircraft. It would be trivial for China to produce whatever parts they need. More importantly, China can easily retaliate in kind by permanently halting production and export of aircraft parts for Boeing (and other US aerospace companies / suppliers). Boeing, etc. would be hard pressed to replace China as easily, much less economically.
China has already accepted the fact that it can no longer depend on other countries for equipment and parts it need. China has to innovate and produce their own parts.
China knows they can depend on Russia for anything they need, and vice-versa. Expect to see the Irkut MC-21 to develop very quickly.
And they will….
China now can not do reengineering of Western technology as they have done so in the past. How fast it can develop a more reliable aircrafts. The C919 sales are still largely a domestic wherein the state owned airlines are purchasing state owned aircraft company. Other airlines will have to wait and see the reliability of such aircraft before the international market will look into purchasing the aircraft. It only takes one malfunction and/or bad publicity and this aircraft will be doomed to existence. Lets all see and wait.
@@bobbydejesus6822 That's because China has leapfrogged most Western technology and is now leading in most key areas. China would be going backward if they depended on Western tech. Also, the C919 is getting global attention, and we can expect to see it become the default narrow body jet of the Global South.
Really ? China has already accepted … the covid reality ? Welcome to reality !
engine is not a problem for China anymore. besides, Russians has had very good engine too.
So buy them.
A few months ago China placed a $300 billion order of planes with Airbus which has a 30% domestication rate, with many parts coming from US companies. If the US now bans China from procuring US parts for its own plane building then that is like a slap to the customers' face. This slap will result in Boeing becoming boring to the Chinese in future dealings, I'm afraid.
Simple china can make their own engines they have high quality humans resources
China is already developing that but it’s not so simple. It takes time and a lot of testing. But China has no choice really. The constant threat of cutting off engine supply will always be there.
Agree. It shouldn't be hard to adapt the WS-20 high bypass engines from the Xian Y-20 to C919 use.
Thank you for sharing this update on the c919 plane development. Please make the other videos you mentioned. It is a fascinating story and not easy to get a full grasp of the industry's global challenges.
If Boeing and Airbus sales fall, it will have a big impact on companies that supporting for Boeing and Airbus, namely factories that make aircraft engines and components. The existence of the C919 is a potential market for aircraft component and engine manufacturers.
En plus, ils seront moins chers 👍👍 quelle combine vont trouver les américains pour bloquer la Chine 🇨🇳 comme la 5G
You are right
True, but Chinese strategy has been to squeeze Boeing while expanding business with Airbus. China has a vested interest in keeping Airbus alive as a global counter to Boeing. China hasn't taken delivery of a Boeing 737 since 2020, whereas China is working with Airbus to open a 2nd production line in China. Expect Boeing to be permanently out of the Chinese market, replaced by domestic Comac aircraft. If China does end up importing any other aircraft, it'll be Russian Irkut MC-21.
You said China is squeezing Boeing! Don't you realise the US is squeezing China on almost every technological front?
@@yahyaabdulhamid1931 Given that China's economy is growing about 3x as fast as the US, and China doesn't appear to need any American tech, I'm not sure how that's actually hurting China. All I see is China successfully de-risking by decoupling from America.
Even some Airbus models uses GE engines, and some US made Lockheed models uses British made Rolls Royce engines !
China will make their own engine
They have already, and currently under flight test on Y20. There are 2 types of engine CJ1000 and bigger CJ2000.
@@mslc22Plus WS-15 and WS-20
I believe that without any doubt. Chinese are resilient people.
No matter how, self-reliant is most important in everything, made in PRC so, sanctions will be a thing of the pass.
Imagine how many new planes are needed in Africa, Asia and Russia during the next 20-30 years for expansion and substitution of older aircraft. It is much more than in the US and EU.
The war in Ukraine cost so much money, and the reduced market (only US ad EU) will make western investments in new aircraft and engines difficult and perhaps impossible.
Southeast Asia, with whom China is a huge RCEP FTA partner. The consider West & Central Asia, Eastern Europe, Africa and LatAm which are all BRI partners. China will sell a LOT of C919 outside the EU and Anglosphere over the next 20-30 years, and everyone knows it.
Why should the rest of the world cater to US and EU? All they have done for the world is constant wars and civil infrastructure destructions!
The US Commerce Secretary should tread very carefully on this one. The Chinese can very easily go to Russia and buy the RD 14 engine...
Any downside to using the Russian engine ?
@@cameronbruce1862 I am not sure if it will work as well as the Engines from the US and Europe, but of course it will work; and besides, the Chinese may have no choice if the US government decides to cut them off
The Chinese will even more easily adapt the WS-20 engines from the Xian Y-20 cargo plane.
@@ZweiZwolf Oh well, that is even worse.
@@dimbwemazala8978your info is damning outdated. China has two options on hand, WS20 and CJ1000 full-manufactured locally and fully by China itself. Bear in mind both types of Made-in-China engines are in operation for a long while.
China had a domestic substitute from the Jade jet engines
ws20 from their military air transporter and tanker
And CJ1000
But Russia does have technology in engine building !
China should seek Russian help
They will work it out !
China has two options on hand right now, WS20 and CJ1000. No need any help from Russia.
If the snobby cake shop owner won't sell their store made cakes, simply bake your own.
It's just a matter of convenience.
It's that EASY.
Do you remember some cake shops that refused to make cakes for the LGBT+ communities? These cake shops signed there demise and are now extinct.
Same situation as cellphone chips, China is now producing their own cellphone chipset
Russia found out the hard way with the sanctions on spare parts imposed on their western made civil aviation aircraft. All countries shouldn’t rely on western aircraft as when your countries’ leaders disobeyed USA, maintenance of your aircraft couldn’t be done when sanctions are imposed.
Russia will switch over to sanction-proof Irkut MC-21, just as China is switching to Comac C919.
Competition and self reliance is key in co existence
Wow, the order for C919 has reached 1061 already and the usa jealous as she is, is now trying to cut off the engine of C919. This blockade by the usa will never work as China has already several options such as the WS20 or the CJ1000 engine to replace the French LEAP1C engine if France has to abide by the usa’s policy. The biggest victim of the American blockade is its own usa-based companies. Boeing will suffer greatly as China will retaliate by restricting export of essential materials to the usa. Airbus too will suffer if France follows the usa. France’s defiance against the usa will make the blockade by the usa impossible to do.
China engine manufacturers will be smiling at this sanction being imposed by Uncle Sam.
France will abide if told to by uncle Sam.
@@anthonyxuereb792 yeah, you may be right, but France has a lot to loose because it has two Airbus factories in China already. So, it depends on the benefit-loss analysis which policy is beter off. Macron seems to defy the usa so far as France and China have many joint projects already and Huawei is opening a factory in France too.
Engine problem with China can sure be solved in a matter of time just like semiconductor industry, China is bold enough to start manufacture a big aircraft with intention to learn along the way, China has succeeded!
Very good analysis, even if almost summarised.
You touched what, in my view, is the crucial point: to distort the mechanism of free trade affects it's own logic and, in the long term, the profits of the sanctions lord.
International trade is a critical factor of peace and progress, concepts that only work when they are multilateral.
RIP for the WTO and the UN.
US rules are the jungle.
They can also simply take the new Russian PD-14 engine and under a licence could be manufactured in China.
PD35, 14 is for sj100.
@@awesome8975 No, PD 14 is for MS-21. For SSJ-100 is PD-8. PD-35 was scheduled for CR-929. C-919 is equivalent to MS-21.
Well done China 🇨🇳 keep up the good work 👍👍💪💪
Thanks, quite knowledgeable
Pretty clear you can't rely US on anything. US would use it to blackmail you eventually. Suggest people all over the world to use parts that has an alternative non-US supplier.
Ú.S. is forcing " the tiger to jump over the wall ".. Zhongguo " Jia You, Jia You, Jia You "..❤❤❤❤❤China....❤❤❤❤❤
While international trade benefits the world as a whole (that is output is higher) the US views it differently. For the US there is no point in production being at its optimal level while they are not getting the lion's share of the benefits. It is better for them to maintain a 'dominion' or control over the industry so that they can continue to reap maximum profits. The US is even trying to unscrupulously eliminate its current main competitor, Airbus. There is a lesson to be learned from the failure of other countries. Ignoring that lesson may mean that China also faces a similar fate. The US will not only stop at technology restrictions once this strategy fails, but it will also resort to dirty tricks such as regulatory hurdles, vilifying Chinese plane manufacturers, baseless sanctions (e.g. connection to PLA) and market restrictions like in the case of Huawei.
Excellent commentary; very informative and to the point. Thank you.
If US stopped supplying their engines to China, China too can stopped supplying all the components that are manufactured by China. Let see how US can manufacture their Boeing planes. What goes around come around. Secondly China can makes their own engines as if they can manufacture their military cargo planes engines, they definitely can manufacture this passenger plane engines too.
This. China will makes key parts for ALL Boeing commercial aircraft. Boeing deliveries would grind to a halt.
Well done 👏
This will make China more selves reliance
Thank you for the real truth
No CFM is not the only most efficient Engine in the world for mid size civilian Aircraft. Russian MC21 300 and 310 with PD14 engine is also same performance engine or a little better than CFM engines. Not only that as of yesterday there are 3 civilian Aircraft Russians show case at Dubai Air Show 2023. Namely CJ100, MC21, and IL 96 400M with 100% Russian supplied Parts.
There are 3 New 100% Russian made Engines. PD8, PD14 and PD35. Zero Imports all Russian made.
HUAWAI 2.0 for C919 🤔🙄🤔
5:11 Soviet Union/Russia was producing domestic passenger jet aircrafts since September 1956. But through the years of isolated passenger aviation development USSR aviation industry accumulated some lag behind competitors : Boeing and Aircraft. So in 1990 there was about 15 years lag in technologies.
Due to domestic corruption, Europe environmental limitations for noise level Russian domestic aircrafts were pressed out from international flights, so domestic aircrafts became less commercially viable than aircrafts from Boeing and Airbus. While new developments of domestic aircrafts experienced lack of money. Domestic aircraft manufacturers did not have their own money since they were state manufacturers in USSR fully dependent in their budgeting from the state budget. While Russian budget experienced collapse of tax collection in 1990s, so state budgeting of new developments was also impossible.
Boeing and Airbus aircrafts became 80% of the Russian airlines companies park at 2022 year. In 2022 it was moment of truth about non-domestic aircrafts use in your country. If the country get sanctions from USA and EU your Boeing and Airbus aircrafts have a great chance to become Cinderella's pumpkin.
Russia and then China shall never repeat this mistake again.
China should aim for 100% self sufficiency with the C919 aircraft.
China can build spacecraft building a aircraft engine is not going to take too long for China!!! VIVA CHINA!!!
cj1000 engine is on the way
Good luck. The West has struggled mightily as of late with engines they have been building for years.
The root issue in China is material science. Technology exists.
Love this channel. Can we keep sample snap shots in synchronized with the narrative?
No snapshots is far better than unrelated ones. Thank you.
評論到位 內容充實👍👏
China has a smart strategy, and china has never feared about the technology. They are leading up...
Are C919s safe enough? Fuel efficient enough compared to similar Boeing and Airbus passenger jets? I foresee China will build other types of their own aircraft and develop other novel aircraft design solutions!
PD-14 could be a replacement option.
China has its own cj1000 engine testing at the moment, and so far so good
Very well elaborated the curse of sanctions over China C919. It is no brainer to see the damaging effects on the foreign component suppliers if one choses the US toxic sanction slapping on China aeronautical development.
Bad politicians killed good businesses and friendship. China’s technology advancement is incredibly impressive. It will continue to prevail progress innovate to be free from imperial bondage. China is a blessing to the world. Well done China ❤♥️
Thank you, Uncle Sam. We now have our own space station😂
Stop ! China HAS developed engines for the C919 ... and has started incorporating those engines in all C919's.
Soon china will come up with their own engine
So far US bleeding is not so significant due to money printing machine. However this is coming to ends soon hopefully.
What would be the excuse used by the U.S. if they decide to cut off the engines? National security?
To be a world leader you must lead in all fields.
Russia will supply China with necessary engines in all categories. Russia can produce all specifications of aviation engines without the need to use any parts from western suppliers.
The world should know before China started to venture into the production of C 919 it had already been producing aircraft parts for Boing for many years. It was for this reason that it prompted China to start producing its commercial aircraft.
❤well done China Congratulations
RIP Boeing & Airbus...
China should develop its own engine to be able to compete
80 billion US dollars in liquidated damages? Great, quickly compensate and interrupt.
it is well known in China that components from west companies are not reliable for mass production but good for initial design and prototype development only. A lot of things can be learned by using components from west companies. The "unreliability" has nothing to do with product quality rather geopolitics (of course, big money / international capital force involved).
If not mistaken, China already has an indigenous engine almost ready to be introduced soon.
your enemies are your best motivators.
Superb English translation. There's no grammar or pronunciation problem as in the past.
Also, not an AI announcement like in our videos
Boeing and Airbus have years of aircraft orders. I doubt Chinese aircraft worry them too much...
But they also have their heads in the sand: Their backlog will diminish quickly if China competes. Cars from General Motors, Ford, Chrysler no longer occupy our roads. We invented TV, but no longer make any. Silicon Valley is eroding and Intel creates more products in Asia than in the USA. We no longer make our clothes, furniture, computers and even much of our food.
Russia and China should start working together. Russia supplying engines to China would be impressive.
China must be thankful to US actions... soon it can be self sufficient and displace the bully.
China should have seen what happened with Russian Civil Aircrafts relaying on US and US allies produced components.
I am sure that China has tried to produce Jet engine. with limited success.
What this analysis is missing is the time frame for a country to produce a critical high meteorological tech efficient engine , even China would require time to develop competence and the know how and the time required to go through engine certification process.
Commercial Jet engines are almost unique to the specific aircraft model, and its navigation system and mounting wiring etc........
Yes, absolutely, and they are doing just that, exactly you suggested, thank you!
I'm always in awe thinking about China's Tiangong Space Station. The more USA sanctions China, the better the Chinese performs. Amazing.👍😂
COMAC needs to be self sufficient in making its own parts and engines. Boeing complaint won’t make China buy from them. When American companies can’t compete, they one sanctions.
While USA/WEST keeps using the "sanction card" to stifle Chinese Industries, the more Chinese Businesses will do all things in-house.
It is a feedback loop that gives the opposite effect of what the USA/WEST wants.
As we saw with the chips, America gets 2-3 years when they sanction, but they're not able to capitalize on it because the timeframe is too short, and instead, they permanently lose markets to Chinese competitors. America should have learned from the chip debacle just how hard China pushes back. If America hadn't sanctioned Huawei, Huawei never would have developed 5nm Kirin 9000s domestically, but would have continued to source Qualcomm and TSMC chips. Now, those sales are gone forever.
If America sanctions China over engines, China will buy Russian engines for 2 or 3 years, and then domestic engines will permanently replace imports.
I agree with ur point but their's a big difference between the ability to make it on ur own than getting help from outsidr sources, Boieng and Airbus can produce airplane 100 percent on their own, and getting parts from outside source does not mean that can't do it in house, thats how trade works, these 2 giant manufacturer wants to help friendly nations and giving them opportunity to produce parts of a whole, ccp china is on a different level, of course they do it on their own but for how long that hard to guess, so ccp china is doing the easy route buying parts that they find it hard to produce from outside sources...😊
US can cut off supply of C919 Engines. China will have their own engines with a short period. By then, US engine suppliers will be out of business soon.
The indigenization has already begin.
And so I won't be surprised if a C919 equipped with 2 CJ1000A taking to the sky by next year.
Safran is the one that will be unhappy as LEAP-1C is not a fully US product, it involved EU partners.
The total loss will be tremendous if US continue to delay its delivery of parts e.g. thrust reversers, etc
If USA cancels sale of leap C engine to China, they have to pay huge cancellation fee, I think 800 million. Correct me if i am wrong.
Does anybody notice that the photos are backwards?
The USA sanctions for China are like "You're damned if you do and damned if you don't".😊
can you guys show one video cut that is l-r correct?
One can only rely on oneself. The US never plays fair yet always accuses everyone else of being dirty.
They can still resource engines from Russia. PD14 and PD35.
700 billion pesos? Certainly not $700 billion US dollars.
Once again the U$ is attempting to shoot its own foot , not learning from the Huawei 60 Kirin 9000s chip & the YMTC 3 Nand memory chip
Congratulations China 💪
Trade and prosper or fight n suffer and this applies to ALL countries, it's really live and let live or kill and die
Very soon all critical components will be Chinese made. Avionics and engines. For the sake of trade, China may import some few non-critical components for its C919.
You wrote 191 not 1091 orders. Which is it?
Surely Airbus wings are built in the UK. Even post Brexit. Some smaller parts may be imported.
China can use ws10/15 domestic engine
Well good luck with that as China is certifying its domestic designed and built CJ-1000A engine. So not only will Boeing loose aircraft orders at an accellerated rate but their joint venture with the French to supply the current engine, the LEAP-1C, made by CFM International, a joint venture between the US’ GE Aviation and France’s Safran will loose orders and simply fail as a venture.
Unable to compete, Uncle Sam resorts to intimidation, Psy-Op and war. 😢
Airbus wings are made in the UK not China as far as I know.
Boeing's careless practice is helping the export of C919.
China could use her Trump card, by banning Boeing Aircrafts from flying into and over her air space.
If China wants to build an aircraft they should build their own engines.
Chinese have made there own engines now
China should kick Boeing out of China as retaliation!
It is maybe a time to understand that you are not exclusive after all ,,,
Excellent information,
Thanks
I think Boeing is in a mess of their own doing. Their quality systems have not only failed but disappeared, because they only focused on profit. Them asking for help to stall the development of a competitor simply shows how they can't admit their mistakes. Comac is not perfect, but they have followed a thorough process to develop their products, why should they be punished? Why should anybody help Boeing keep the status quo?