Sly Drives of Electric Trains. Melbourne, Sydney, London.
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- čas přidán 13. 11. 2019
- 28 Minutes.
If you have ever wondered what goes on inside the cabs of trains, particularly with operating the controls, this may answer some questions. - Auta a dopravní prostředky
Fantastic video mate, happy days when sly driving helped develop the next generation of footplatemen.
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Thanks very for posting. This is a great video as it gives a very good impression of what goes on in the cabin. I particulalry liked the shots inside the U set. It was always one of my favourite trains.
I was rather fond of the U Sets. Several times I caught the last Wollongong train from Central ?12:10 am and drove the U set from Hurstville to Bulli. It’s great to drive a line when you are familiar with it and in those days, all Sydney trains had to be driven as fast as they could go with the shortest possible station stops. Although I did not muck around, I was usually a minute or two late at Bulli. I particularly liked the electro pneumatic EP brakes on those trains. I did like to drive them. On that night run, the Guard went through the train and asked everybody which station they wanted to get off at so the driver stopped there only. Wonderful times!
@@tressteleg1 , i like how the guard asked which stops were necessary.
@@tressteleg1 When trains were driven as fast as possible. Sounds utopian. I find the Sydney timetable very frustrating these days on the rare occassions I am there. The timetable appears to be very dumb downed particulalry very early in the morning and late at night. One morning I caught a train from North Sydney to Central and it was glacial.
Thanks so much for sharing your film collection for the benefit of all us train devotees. There really are some hidden gems.
Richard Smith A few years back visiting Sydney I went for a joyride to Kiama. It was such a woefully slow trip I was pleased to get off again back at Central. North Sydney - Central, it used to be 10 minutes either way and that’s with the old standard sets with week motoring. So why do they take 14 minutes today with more powerful motors etc? Disgraceful.
@@tressteleg1 I completely agree
Closest I've ever gotten to this was when I was waiting for a train at either Collingwood or Victoria Park, one showed up and I recognized the driver. Guy I played sport with. So when it stopped he asked me to come into the driver's area with him to Flinders Street. That was a Comeng if I recall.
Maybe that was your 1st foot inside the door. Maybe if you had’ve done a ride with him further out from the city, it could have led to more opportunities for a drive. Unfortunately nowadays with cameras everywhere and much more strictly enforced rules about people in the cab, It’s impossible.
Great work Tressteleg1, you seem to have a backstage pass access all areas. I find your subtitles very informative. Thanks for sharing.
No backstage pass. Just one way or another got to know drivers who were willing to share their controls.
Got a "Sly" of a Sydney W set once. Noisy cab but got a real sense of those 4x200 HP motors. Braking with the stepped application was superb, four slushy braked Tulloch DD trailers not withstanding.
I’m not sure if I ever drove a W set but electrically and brakes are identical to U Sets but probably more sluggish and maybe geared for a slightly slower speed.
Wow just wow is all i'm going to say tressteleg1 with those London Trains you saw @13.26 a 4EPB or Class 415 in TOPS Parlons was just fantastic..
Many thanks. Great fun it was. Nice to show you some things of interest!
@@tressteleg1 What a night that was indeed Richard if that's your name as i only just found out. Those 4EPB's you drove were taken out of service between 1994 and 1995 with the last 4EPB running a service from London Victoria to Strood in March 95 replaced by the then new Class 465 and 466 Networker EMU's.
Craig Mitchell38 Thanks for that history update for the trains involved. I love the sounds of trains as well as their appearance and we can be sure of one thing - the replacement trains would have next to none of the character of these older ones. I trust that a few cars have been saved for occasional operation although private operators don’t see much interested in history, at least here anyway.
Not only is your channel fascinating, but an important historical account. I think it is amazing that you have had so many opportunities to get around with a camera (big bulky things back then) and that the film survived and is now digitise and on here for us to enjoy, the work and effort involved must be considerable - thank you !
Thanks. It’s only now that I realise that few rail fans had movie film and video cameras as early as I did. I guess I’m just lucky that I could afford those things at those times.
Fascinating what was possible back before the safety and terror prevention people got their way. Seems like you enjoyed the varied driving experiences. :D Nice to see the bridge crossing, definitely not something regular folks see every day. I made sure to take some photos of S sets while they were still in service in Sydney, actually stood at the end of that platform at 11:30 back in 2013 to photograph trains coming off the bridge.
It’s interesting that you got to Oz just 9 years ago. At least you have some idea of the local situations. Unofficial driving was never permitted, but a few drivers who were fans themselves took the chance that they would not get caught. If that ever did happen, most of them could probably talk their way out of it, but that’s not possible with new rules, and with cameras all over the place now, there is much more chance that someone unofficial could be spotted in the cab. Same goes for using cameras. I like your description of ‘safety and terror prevention’ people. In the past, I could only drive when railwayman were not riding home in the cab. Nowadays, unless an employee has some paper authorisation that tells him he should be in the cab, he must travel in the back with everybody else. Total insanity, of course. If a driver did have a sudden health situation, nearly anybody else who used to ride in the cab could have at least stopped the train, but try telling that to the so-called experts.
It was satisfying driving a train, especially when you stopped smoothly in the right place I did that at Milsons Point coming off the harbour bridge. And I don’t think I came into the station to cautiously. It has been decades since I drove a train, and I don’t expect that to change in the future.
Awesome, thank you.
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Wow that was terrific! You could only dream of that these days with CCTV everywhere. You can't go to the supermarket without having each item you buy on video let alone getting to drive a train
Yes, wonderful days gone for good. I can’t even get a sly drive of a tram these days.
@@tressteleg1 A comparison video of how old W class trams, or even later Z/A class trams compare to that of today's trams from a driving and maintenance point of view would be interesting too.
@@burntoutelectronics That is something that could be spoken in words, but I can’t think of a way to put it into video. Whilel I’m pleased I got to drive the Ws, for me driving them was no pleasure as the seat was an unsuitable height lacking a footrest and I tended to slide off the little seat. I sat down till my back ache, then stood up to my legs ached, then sat down again etc. The best fun of all to drive was the Z1 and Z2. You could play with their automatic acceleration - make them start off and stop as gentle as a kitten, or go like a scalded cat. Later Trams were adjusted to much more sedate performance.
Spent most of my late teen years driving with my mates at different depots giveni was a Traffic employee lolll, Being sensible was foremost and being aware the rear cab door could open at any time and luckily it didn’t, Made my days on the diesels much more knowledgeable and train handling so much better, And made my interest and collecting of master controllers so much more interesting, Good on you Sly😂😂
Obviously you know exactly what sly drives are (maybe with a different name) but at least you were an employee, which I was not 😄
With cameras and rule enforcement today, I don’t expect to get any more sly drives anywhere.
Tomorrow evening look for my video “Driver’s View with Controls…” as it may also rekindle some more memories.
@@tressteleg1 Station camera don’t help, I was working a SSR coalie out of Newstan Colliery and passing Fassifern station a few moments later my phone goes off, Smile was the text it was a mate Train Controller in Sydney spying on me, You just don’t know who’s watching, But in earlier days employee or not it was a thrill but was always mindful of what I was doing
😀*Very enjoyable* even though the camera pick was the tubed type as to CCD type (solid state) I've heard that in other countries like Germany, you pay a extra fee for the experience of driving a train! 😀
The camera was state of the art at that time. These sly drives were absolutely unofficial. Drivers sharing the fun with somebody who appreciates the privilege.
5:50 the voice of the 'passenger' sounds so familiar to that of a driver known as Bobby, or 'crash' lol
I think the intruder was somebody besides a driver, but I can’t be certain. Even so, I would not be driving while anybody else was in there.
Cool
awesome video liked tressteleg1 :)
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Those were the days mate, quite often swapped roles on the banko circle a stopper so the driver could have a rest
That things the public knew nothing about 😄
Was it the case back then that the driver had "command" of a train, the same way a ship's captain does? So, essentially "what the driver says, goes". Wondering if the driver did have such a commanding role, whether it might've meant that this practice of allowing "sly drives" (great term, that; potential band name, even) was technically legal.
PS Just can't get enough of your videos; so many treasures! Keep up the amazing work, legend!
On trams it was the conductor technically in charge as the tram was not to move until the conductor had indicated that it was safe to do so. I think the same applies to trains (which still have guards). As for sly drives, it was always illegal but with no surveillance cameras around, especially with longer serving drivers there was always the chance that if caught, they could talk their way out of it somehow. Nevertheless some drivers who loved their job were willing to take the risk and share the joy of driving with somebody they knew and who would appreciate the privilege. The ‘real’ driver was always watching the road ahead so in fact there were 4 eyes watching, not the usual 2. And a second person, riding or driving, is likely to stop a driver from nodding off. It is interesting that following the serious derailment near Helensburgh where the driver ‘died at the helm’ causing the over speed crash, all unauthorised people were banned from riding in the cab. However if almost anybody were in the cab when that driver died, they almost certainly could have stopped the train and maybe driven it to Helensburgh to get help.
And it’s great that you like my videos. Tonight’s is something a little different.
@@tressteleg1 Wow, that's really interesting. And I was only reading about the 2003 Waterfall derailment recently; driver had a heart attack, but the guard didn't have the authorisation to activate the emergency braking system, or something along those lines. But the whole thing pretty much came down to "chain of command", so to speak. That's when they also discovered that some drivers had been using the flags to hold the dead man's "handle". It was actually an awkward foot pedal thing that was cramp inducing for all but drivers with the longest and heaviest legs. Just looking at it makes one uncomfortable, so I don't want to even imagine what it's like to have to hold that thing down with one's feet in a G Set from Central to Kiama. Yikes.
In fact there are several methods of holding down the dead man’s activator. On the trains I drove, just the weight of your hand on the controller handle was plenty. Later they introduced the footpedal and I’m fairly certain that one or the other could be used but I don’t have much familiarity with the newest trains. The other recent extra addition is vigilance control where the controller, brake, or a few other things have to be moved periodically or else the brakes will come on after a warning beep for a few seconds.
From what I remember, questions were asked about why the guard did not “pull the tail“. In those days at least, there was animosity between guards and drivers so if the guard pulled the tail without good reason, they would get a severe tongue lashing from the driver or possibly worse. So if in any doubt, guards generally would not act in that way.
You lucky devil getting sneak a drive here and there. Thoroughly enjoyed the video.
I now realise the rarity of these drives and wish they were still possible.
That harris must have been withdrawn not long after same with the red
Fantastic video I'm very jealous
Yep. That one about 45 minutes later, I would expect 😊. Unfortunately unless you actually become a train driver, there is little chance that anyone can do this in the future.
@@tressteleg1 I meant the Harris but yeah same goes for the red haha
All Harris trains were gone when I moved to Melbourne November 1987. You may be able to research a more accurate date.
tressteleg1 damn so a year later they were all gone
Apparently. Maybe your parents will remember them.
Such a shame cant get away with that anymore. Its hard enough just to get a sly ride up front these days even when you work for the company.
Glenn Pritchard Yes. We are over-run by health and safety zealots too silly to realise that a second person in the cab helps keep the driver awake and often is a second set of eyes on the road ahead.
When sly driving red sets do you find it challenging to use the self lapping air brakes to stop at stations?
I was familiar with the concept of manual lapping brakes used by older trams. Also I had being getting sly drives of U sets for some years on and off before I drove my first Standard (Red) set. One thing you must not do with these brakes is come into a station too hard, then release the brakes for a short time, then reapply. Half the train will be releasing while another part is applying with a lot of lurching. If you watch again my driving the Standard from Wynyard to Milton’s Point and take note of my subtitles, you will see how I got it under control coming down towards the pylons, and making a smooth stop at the right place at Milton’s. You will hear driver Brian complimenting me on the stop. As my drives had to be at night (usually) and as Standards went to bed after the evening peak, I only ever drove them 3 or 4 times. Incidentally I loved driving U sets. They have manual lapping electropneumatic brakes which means that each carriage brakes at the same time, no need to wait for the air to drop the full length of the train.
cool
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Not exactly Sly driving but as a kid once I hitched on a locomotive with 5 or 6 other people in the cab excluding the driver and his assistant
anindra pratama They were much more agreeable days 😄👍
fabulous. you must be one hell of a sweet talker to get all these opportunities. like the sly tram drives just to keep your skills sharp. i'm sure i speak for most of your regular viewers when i ask what is your official driving history. was it more than just melbourne trams?
Officially, professionally, just Melbourne. And Sydney tram museum for workshop tram movements many years ago. I had various other approvals at other tramways including the Seatton miniature tramway in Devon, England. I drove a W2 in service on the tourist line in Dallas Texas and drove under supervision quite a few other museums and places. I will do a video about all of those in due course if people are interested. But I don’t want to look like I am bragging. I did not get drive-through sweet talking. People who love driving trains or trams love sharing the thrill with interested people who they know will greatly enjoy the experience. Goodness me, I gave sly drives to plenty of people when I was a driver in Melbourne. The only time I was caught was giving my tram conductress a very short slow speed drive in the safest possible conditions. Quite the opposite of other sly drives like I have. I just took the chance I would not get caught as did the various tram drivers and train drivers. I first started getting sly drives of Melbourne trams in the 1960s and clocked up many miles on the scrubber trams before I was on the job in Melbourne. Savage penalties against drivers who get caught nowadays has stopped all of that.
I can’t see where your comment about the guards collecting the stations has appeared, but the point was that several stations on that line at night time were simply conditional stops. In practice I suspect that all stops were treated as conditional and I think the guard gave the driver the list of stations required and when he got to any unrequested stops he just slowed down to check that nobody was waiting for the train and if not just notched up the power again and kept going.
@@tressteleg1 ,well it just seems to be an excusable exercise in common sense. there were a couple of times when we caught the last train home to the stop before port melbourne terminus and saw dad was driving but he didn't see us. why should we let him see us. if he had seen us, he wouldn't have flogged hell out of the train to get it to the terminus asap. after all it is knock-off time. he would drive the thing gently if he knew we were on the last train. wouldn't want to set a bad example to his kids. your sly drives are great. i'm sure others beside me are interested.
Nice story thanks. Have you found any other Sly Drives videos on CZcams?
@@tressteleg1 err, no. i've never thought to look. you may have the scene all to yourself. i should look, then get back to you.
How are the points controlled so the trains always go on the right lines?
By a signal box. All the train driver has to check is that the signalman has not accidentally set the points to go somewhere else, and the driver understands this from the signals he sees. If set the wrong way, driver stops the train and calls the signal box.
I've have done that once in Sydney 1984, between Summer Hill to Burwood Stations, as I had a _Day Rover_ ticket. It was most enjoyable! I think it is near Lewisham station is where they do some their driver training?
Unfortunately times have changed. Before the National Park line was closed, that was a good place for students to play trains. I don’t know where they do it now.
@@tressteleg1 It is a pity that's all gone now!, it would be fun to experience train driving, like for the younger generation, so may be we could gain more drivers and guards etc. 😀🚎
Yes, true. I wonder how many guys who had a sly drive in the past consequently decided to take on the career. While safety should never be compromised, the official driver of the trains I drove was also keeping a keen eye on the road ahead and anything I did.
@@tressteleg1 I 100% agree with _Safety should never be compromised_ There A V/Rail video that talks about effective listening skill communications etc. I believe it is not just for V/Rail, also for the whole of Australian Railways?
did you ever drive the double-deck interurban (DDIU) V set
Yes, quite a few times, mostly thanks to the late Jack Lawson. Mostly up north, a few times Blue Mountains.
So jealous only ever drove Alamein Spark between stations.
That is a million times more than most train fans😊
did you ever sly drive in a Camshaft V set
It is a long time to remember back to then, last time would have been towards 1987 and I think that at that time, most if not all were cam shaft. For the driver, there was not much difference between a chopper or camshaft train. With a camshaft, you may feel little jolts as the notches advanced, but that is all.
I wish they could bring something like that here in Australia and New Zealand! Sure there's Microsoft Train Simulator or Tranz, it's not the same, the graphics are rubbish and things (after awhile) are predictable;e) not like a _real train_ anything can happen. But of course under strict supervision (for everyone's safety)! Even video are OK, but how many times can one watch the same one over again (on repeat)? Can get boring, like train simulators!
Westinghouse brakes?
For the Red train across the Harbour Bridge, yes. The others were a form of self-lapping EP brakes.
Aaaahahaha excellent 😅
Not any more, unfortunately. Too risky for the drivers.
Could you drive these with passengers
All these trains were in normal service, running to timetable. But nobody knew about it except the official driver.
When old mate is telling you motor phase selections. What is actually going on there?
The drivers are familiar with the exact speeds in the locations and particularly in London I obviously had no knowledge of the line whatsoever. So the driver was just asking me to speed up or slow down if I was not guessing precisely correctly. The same with the Harris train. If I did not follow the unusual procedure with the controller, the train would buck and the guard would start wondering what’s going on. One night coming back from Penrith on that late night run driving an S set, the guard called on the intercom and asked Brian who was driving the train. He well knew that my driving style was not precisely the same as Brians.
@@tressteleg1 I see, haha. Imagine being sprung... I was more referring to what mechanical functions those phrases (series, parallel and weakfield) actually did, I went and looked it up never mind. I do have one question though. The distinct 2-phase noise a Waratah makes during acceleration, Is that just simply an evolution of 'Chopper control' as used on the last batches of V Set, Tangara's and C Sets. Or is it different to typical pulse width modulation?
I have some degree of difficulty staying up to date with the great variety of electronic acceleration equipment on modern trains but essentially they all involve brief jolts of power of varying frequencies to cause the acceleration instead of just wasting excess current in some type of resistance wire not unlike the filament wire in a toaster but of course much chunkier.
Interesting is that AC motor systems require a DC overhead supply which can then have varying AC frequencies created.
grouse video mate.
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Wow that’s so cool! Was that you? Shame this is no longer allowed
No point sending it if it was not me 😊
It was not permitted then, but in those days there were no cameras around and if the driver got caught, mostly he could talk his way out of it. Not today!
Another great video ,I was particularly interested when you were in the UK and you asked about blowing the main fuse,I had previously watched a video about changing the shoe fuse so I thought you might be interested in seeing how 'Paddling Up' is done. (The procedure was a little different in older stock )Thanks for everything you do, Cheers czcams.com/video/rsnzAe4MJnY/video.html
This interests me somewhat and I will reply again when I have watched your video carefully. This might be a day or two later.
It was quite an interesting video. While inserting the special device to short-circuit the power rail to a running rail would be fine when the power is already off, I would hate to have to do it to actually kill the third rail. Slightly fumbled and the results could be worse than spectacular!
There is also no mention of what to do in wet weather when a damp paddle could well carry current into the train. If the standard of driver training is dumbed down like has happened in Australia, I expect that drivers never have to consider the procedure any more when a blown fuse or other third rail malfunction needs attention. The train would remain immobilised until a technician arrived from somewhere. I have sent the video link on to a few friends who may be interested. Thanks.
Third rail power supply has never been used in this country and Sydney’s reasonably new Metro uses standard overhead wire at 1500 V DC.
@@tressteleg1 Thanks for your reply ,I found another video which covers topics like line faults etc in the class 455 multiple units,it also has more about paddling up,hope you find it interesting too,and again thank you for your videos,they are fabulous.Cheers czcams.com/video/qaqfm2OpuPs/video.html
It is an interesting video. Obviously the drivers are highly trained in faultfinding, or at least they were when that video was made. I have sent the link on to the two Melbourne drivers who I know, and if either has time to watch it, I will let you know any comments about faultfinding training for drivers in Melbourne.
@@tressteleg1 Thanks for your reply , I'm glad you thought the videos were interesting , onequestion if I may ,you drove trams in Melbourne for awhile and have had a chance to try driving trains so if you were starting out today which do you prefer ? Cheers