Dragon Quest vs Final Fantasy
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- čas přidán 8. 09. 2024
- Dragon Quest and Final Fantasy have always been the two giants of the franchise. I wanted to dive in and talk about how they are both different but also very important in regards to how they offer gamers a roleplaying experience.
I am very new to video editing, so I know this is as basic as it comes, but I wanted to voice my thoughts out anyway so here we go. I promise to get better as I practice using my editing tools more.
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All music is copyright and trademark to Square-Enix. Footage is mine.
One huge advantage DQ has is that it has been led by a single guy for the past 38 years. Yuji Horii has always been in charge, so the games feel consistent.
Because of that, DQ games feels too samey. But that's ok, DQ is what I go to when I want comfort. Final Fantasy when I want a new experience
@@Davethawave1999
I hear this repeated again and again, but only by players in the West. You might be very surprised to hear that this is not at all how players in Japan view DQ vs FF. I'm more in their side; I don't think DQ games are same-y at all.
@@Misa_Susaki I agree! They're consistent and traditional but they all feel very different. The experience you get from raising a family to save the world in DQ V is vastly different from the experience of being a hero on the run in DQ XI S, for example.
I definitely feel like the Final Fantasy has been without focus for a while due to the absence of Sakaguchi or a consistent creative director.
Why do people try to argue that ATB is not turn based? While the bar is filling, you are waiting for your turn, and when it fills up, you take your turn, and enemies also have their own hidden ATB bars, so they also have to wait for their turn. The only unique part of it is that it has flowing turns, so if you take too long to decide, enemies can skip your turn, while you cannot skip their turn because they make their decisions immediately.
Right, the only difference is you’re waiting for the turn.
If you were to say that ATB wasn't turn-based during the release of any Final Fantasy game in the 90's: The person you would be talking too would have looked at you like you lost your mind.
Also the only reason this has come-up recently is that people want to pretend FFXVI isn't an action game. We can't possibly acknowledge that, and acknowledge it's good enough to be a mainline numbered game in the series, or talk about where the series moves on from here. Instead we do this.
If ennemy can skip your turn then it's not fully turn base anymore, you already add a real time element by removing that aspect, in a traditionnal turn-base like DQ, SMT, Persona or FFX the point is you either choose your action before the round play and watch how it plays (order being decided by the speed stat) or each combattant get their individual turn, while on a turn the principle of a turn base if you can take all your time to assess the situation to make your move, if you remove that and allow ennemy to play during your move selection that's already not fully turn base anymore you're adding a real-time element into it, the goal of ATB system was always to make the game more dynamic than a basic turn-base, and, base on what Hiroyuki Ito (creator of the ATB system) said in the long term transitionning to full real-time (not necessarily action game tough), which they started doing with FFX-2, XII and XIII which are still menu and stat base combat system dictate by the ATB with allowing every participant to act whenever they can regardless of if someone is already acting, and I honnestly would have prefer they keep going in that direction with the ATB system rather than just dumping it all out for going full Action game.
I love these kinds of conversations and analysis into these two franchises so great work Elk. I don't know how old you are but you seem young and that the only problem with this analysis is that it lacks the historical context for the moves of each franchise and how they were seen through the years. Dragon quest was popular in Japan but in comparison to western audiences it always felt steps behind Final fantasy on the narrative front not to mention the other things FF was doing. It was recognize that Square Soft was S tier and Enix was maybe B as Square was also producing many other amazing games through the 90s-yearly 00s. For me as an old school final fantasy fan, Square and Square Enix no longer produces games I wish to play and the last game that was a Final Fantasy game for me was FF 10-2. This is by in large the movement of genre which you nailed. 11 was a MMO, 12 was a single player MMO, 13 was a train wreck hallway sim, 14 a MMO which bombed and was reborn but still a MMO, 15 was unfinished and more Kingdom hearts than FF, and 16 is more devil may cry medieval dark fantasy than FF. This has nothing to do with the quality of the games themselves but they are not FF RPGs in the classical since. They go from more passive thought based gaming to action based gaming and just don't feel like FF games from their writing to comic overtones and other aspects. The best example is looking at FF7 and FF7 remake, these are not the same game nor same genre nor even feel like the same soul. They're different. Its like playing chess vs soccer. I like soccer but I prefer to play chess. This is why DQ11 did so well because it was the closest true FF game we had since Octopath and Persona 5. They are chess games, not soccer games and remember chess can have a timer so the ATB doesn't change it from being turn based. We also can't forget that DQ games were relegated to aging or lesser consoles and targeting children vs being for anyone and many of the DQ games are pretty grindy and terrible to get through in comparison to FF at least for the feelings of the time. I think its going to be an interesting next few decades of us getting polished modern versions of these old games with the same soul like DQ 3's remake and Persona 3 reload have done but just don't expect it from the FF franchise. They're lost and something completely different now.
@@rcribbet thanks for the compliment! I wish I was young. My first exposure was to Dragon Quest 1 on the NES...... when it came out in 1986.
While it is true that Dragon Quest mostly refines what already worked, there's one pretty major thing that changed in the series after the 3rd game, they're not open-world anymore. The first 3 Dragon Quests were true open-world games, you can go anywhere, and there's no order in which you have to complete the games' objectives, from DQ4 onwards, the games got a lot more linear, though DQ4 still opens up in the final chapter, and the later games still retain just enough out-of-the-way things for you to find while exploring that it still feels like an adventure, but yeah, they've become pretty linear... Which isn't a bad thing but... I still want another true open-world Dragon Quest akin to the first 3 games...
They were never open world. Or, they always were lol In the common "open world" sense the word has today, they never were. The classic jrpg maps have boundaries that are there by design (the sea you can only navigate with a ship, the mountains you can only fly over with the godbird) and you always gradually gain access to areas previously closed off with keys, events, new mechanics or means of transportation. That was true in dq1 and is still true today. The only one thay goes close to being """open world""" in the modern sense is dq8, but still not quite. Dq8 "becomes open world" once you finish it... which makes it not open world to begin with. Same goes for all the others but in dq8 it's more noticeable since it's the first world design that was POTENTIALLY open world for real (but the game made it so it never actually was). All the "eagle pov" classic jrpg map where never open world. You just mean that once you get the ship in dq2 or 3 a VAST portion of the world opens up at the same time. That is not what open world is.
@@TheSpartanS196 Why are you applying a modern standard of "open world" to games from the mid-to-late 80s? To reinstate what I explained in the original comment, there is no order in which you have to complete the games' objectives, therefore they are non-linear, in other words, their worlds are open, though yes, DQ2 and 3 open themselves up more gradually than the first one, but they are still, nonetheless, open, and claiming they're not because keys exist is nonsense, it's called "Game Design". That aspect of it is mostly gone in the games after 3.
I would agree for most of them... Though Dragon Quest XI S brings it back by the end of the first arc. You're once again free to roam and acquire the orbs in any order. There is a recommended order but you don't have to follow it. DQ VI, VII, and IX sort of did the same but not to the degree of III and XI. I hope this open design comes back in XII.
Well, good to know, I haven't played DQ11 yet, I'm saving it for last, I've played most of the rest though, only missing 6 and 7, and just started 6 today, but I do wanna replay 8 and 9 afterwards since it's been so long...
@@Michirin9801 hope you have fun! VI isn't in my top DQ games but it definitely is still amazing! It could be personal bias but I really do love these games.
I love the original Dragon Warrior on the NES. I’ve played through it multiple times. I just started playing it again a week ago and am loving it (again)
I love both but if I had to pick, I'll always go for Dragon Quest. It's a guaranteed good game whereas Final Fantasy takes too many risks for me. I love every Dragon Quest game but there are some FF that I only played once and never went back to.
Same, i prefer FF games like 9,10,12 plus the earlier games(1-6)
Ironically, the only risk it does not takes is keeping the things fans love because they are afraid they will not have wide appeal.
Not true, DQ 6, 7, 9, 10 are polarising, and then 2 is straight bad! Then the fact that some didn't get English localisation and were not released until many year's later really hurt the franchise and then 10 is still japanese only
Is DQ more consistent thematically and mechanically? Yes, but there are more good FF games than DQ, and I love DQ
@@Bevtone what? DQ 9 was a lot of people's first and favorite DQ game. 10 is loved no matter what and even 6 has its fans. It might just be your bubble, which is sort of sad. Everyone I know loves DQ 7, especially the 3DS version.
My vote goes for FF due to how influencial it was on me and always offered something different. But DQ is a series I'm growing to appreciate as I work my way through those games they are so relaxing and charming.
Yeah, sometimes it boils down to which one you came across first. I'm Asian so we were pretty much exposed to DQ right from the get-go.
ive always plays final fantasy and loved 1-9 (minus 8 haha) but have since fell off. I love what I can play of Dragon Quest but they're not easily available in the West - i don't have a 3DS. I played DQ 1, 2, 3.... and 11 on steam. I tried DQ8 on iPhone but didn't like playing it on that device. I wish they had more DQ on steam
Great video by the way!
if you can spend 60$ on a brand new game, you can spend 60$ on a 3ds, hack it and gain access not only through the whole dq series but to hundreds of awesome games. "not easily available"? Nah, u lazy
@@TheSpartanS196 bruh, not everyone falls into that. Try telling that to my mom. She loves Dragon Quest and wants to play them but can barely even use a phone.
I’d recommend playing Dragon Quest 8 3DS on Citra along with having the orchestra mod installed, it’s a really fun way to play it! I really hope they release a remaster/port of the 3DS version to consoles and steam, I’d pay for that in a heartbeat!
@@mr.j3rs3y why 3ds rather than playstation 2? i think i would like the widescreen better graphics
@@channelmovedseefeaturedcha3500
3DS version has more content, the graphics are still pretty nice, more voice acted characters, no random encounters, more party members, when modded in the orchestra is of a better quality than the PS2 versions.
Also you can still play in pretty much widescreen with a good resolution on Citra.
I feel like your argument towards ppl who want Turned Based Final Fantasy back is a bit contrived and playing with semantics a bit. Im pretty most understand that 4-9 aren’t traditional Turned Based games. But im pretty sure when somebody says “i want Turned Based FF back” the more than likely mean the ATB system(4-9).
I know some ppl wanted FF16, but i(and others), main issue was that it felt like it strayed too far away from being an RPG imo. No party control. Equipment swapping was very linear and boring. Enemies didn’t seem to have elemental weaknesses. Etc. Etc.
The ATB system is still turn-based. Especially if you keep it on “wait” mode.
I would disagree with you on ff popular in west. It's TRUE by older gamers. But ff 15, ff16, ff7 remake didn't resonate with younger newer audiences. And even older ones kinda moved on by sales numbers.
I think so too but in general FF is way more popular.. I don't a single person who played Dragon Quest other than XI S but almost everyone has played some kind of ff
Don't forget to look at the numbers too. FF7 Rebirth "failing" is from their POV. It still sold over 2 million. FF16 sold over 3 million. FF7 Remake hit over 10 million since it was out during the pandemic and on the PS4, a console most people had. In comparison, the most successful Dragon Quest is XI and that barely hit 2 million..by numbers, FF is still way more popular.
@@selinagreatestninja it couldnt sell and recouped and make s profit. Yes it sold but console exclusive hurt it. Dq has issue getting its games global. But it's well know do to side games like builders, heroes, monsters. Ff lacks not able side games.
Its possible dq will overtake ff in west if they get dq 1 to 10 stateside.
@@evening_liam ff is meh, do you see a final fantasy theme park, side games nope. And dq bought Ff. Ff is the servent to dw, enix, who bought squaresoft.
@@evening_liam you need to expand your horizon then. I know several people that played every Dragon Quest mainline game and several of the spin-offs.
For me DQ11 was beyond brilliant. I replayed it many times and always enjoy it. But in terms of story FFX is far superior with an emotional weight.
There is this fake believe that Dragon Quest is iterative and Final Fantasy is evolutionary. The fact is that Dragon Quest is evolutionary and Final Fantasy is revolutionary. Dragon Quest always add at least one major feature EVERY GAME and Final Fantasy just throws away what works trying to remain completely fresh. And I refuse this apologist BS that you can't define what Final Fantasy is. Final Fantasy, regardless of your flawed definition of the ATB system, was turn based from I through X and even XII still has the essence of the ATB system on it, with you having to wait for the bar to fill for your character to start the next command you gave and another bar depending on the action to account for how long that action takes
I just picked up DQ11 to play for the first time before the original trilogy remakes.
It’s Active Time Battle.
DQ is thematically and mechanically consistent but never as emotive or gritty, its super whimsical and fun though, FF take a risk in every title and the fact they aren't afraid to take risks is where I give them plaudits even if it results in somthing I dont like!
It's surprising that DQ for so long has catered to its Japanese audience when it has so many western themes and as a franchise they shot themselves in the foot and even when they did release them to the west they where limited to certain consoles and then 10 is still a no show!
I don't think either product is superior just different, I think FF has just held esteem over DQ because its simply been more available and FF7 was such a massive hit DQ could never compete!
I think as it stands now though what DQ has a slight upper hand in that its not trying to reinvent the wheel and that's why DQ11 landed so well with a traditional audience, FF is chasing trends and lost sight of why people loved the games in the first place, I could almost garrentee the next DQ will be great but with the next FF who knows because they have drifted so far from what they where its barley a JRPG any more.
Love both but if I had to pick I'd side with FF. With every new title, I can never predict what kind of game it'll be and that's exciting. With every new dq game, I have a good idea of what I'm in for
I can agree! I prefer Dragon Quest exactly because I know what I'm in for (it's comfort food to me) but it's easy to see your preference too! It's always fun to jump into a brand new, exciting experience.
I like the earlier Final Fantasy games (1-6, and also 9), but at the end of the day, I am 100% team Dragon Quest. There is not a single DQ game I didn't like (10 doesn't count, cuz I can't play it at all).
It's hard for me to say. I have played only 3 games from each franchise. I would say I like FF6 more than any DQ, but as a franchise I prefere DQ because it's so much more consistent. Every DQ game is good. I can't say the same for FF.
Such is the price of trying an entirely new approach with each game. Some FF games are a massive hit, some are great but not amazing. DQ on the other hand maintains a high standard while sticking to tradition. And yeah, I love FF6!
Every dq was great, most ff games are awful
Last playable non mmo ff was 12