The Real Reason TRAILBRAKING Works So Well // Part 2
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- čas přidán 30. 09. 2022
- In Part Two, we demonstrate the technique we discussed in the first video. • The real reason TRAILB... And we did it big this time. We ride halfway across the state to demostrate riding by speed and direction on one of the most epic motorcycle roads IN THE WORLD!
Part One: • The real reason TRAILB...
Filming Location: www.canyonchasers.net/maps/14/
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#cornering #motorcyclesafety #canyonchasers
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Be sure to check out part one: czcams.com/video/fuoYUYFNkGI/video.html
Thank you for this video. I have been studying Trail Braking for more than 20 years, and only your explanation has made sense. Not overlapping braking and throttle, then simply rolling onto your fingers (gently) as you roll off the gas and need more speed control. Wow! Tight, blind corners with corners that never seem to stop turning as so much easier, and less scary, now. Thank you. (FTR I live in Kanab, UT, so I know a blind corner when I see one.)
"Not overlapping braking and throttle" - OHHHhhhhhhh! I kept thinking maybe a bit of throttle AND break to load up the tire for a big dip in. o.O guess it's something I 'thought' and didn't really DO.
Huge epiphany there for me.
I think these are the best explanations ive seen about cornering and how suspension works ive seen yet. No information overload. Well done.
Truly beautiful scenery. The magic of a Bike makes it prettier.
It's that feeling that you can experience those epic views with all your senses, even touch them. Within a car, you're separated from them.
This video was so “ride changing” for me. I have watched a LOT of videos on trail braking and your use of “maintenance throttle” was the first time I had heard it and the camera showing it was so affirming of what I had been trying to do. I ride a bigger bike, so I am not scraping my knees in turns, so I was always having time in my turns when I was not breaking or ready to accelerate yet.
So I watched this before I went on a 5 day ride on Blue Ridge Parkway. A) I used trail breaking and it was awesome. There were some turns I was not as well prepared for and had to break a little harder in the turn, and I did so with confidence. B) this maintenance throttle was such a difference maker. Lessons learned from this video (and some of your others as well) made such a difference in how comfortable I was in corners and controlling my speed with braking and maintenance throttle.
Thanks for making my dream ride awesome and safer.
Awww man, that’s awesome!! That’s exactly why we do this!! Glad you had a great, drama-free ride!
Love to hear this :D
Sorry sir, is it breaking or braking? i think it was 'braking', not 'breaking'
@@izhan879 I did use “braking” the first time and then autocorrect took over after that. Sorry if that caused you to be confused.
Thank you for reaffirming that maintenance throttle is a thing! Learning how to trail brake has been hard as I kept thinking go into the corner while braking, lean and ease off the brake then throttle out when you see your exit. I had kept thinking no throttle was applied in the corner until the exit and couldn't for the life of me replicate that in the real world, so I would just apply enough throttle to keep the bike's momentum going, I never knew that that was it the whole time!
Yep. Exactly spot on. Even in my earlier videos I’d skip over the maintenance throttle part to focus on the slowing part, but that doesn’t take into account long sweeping corners or uphill corners, etc.
This teaching on trail braking is the best one I've seen on CZcams. The visual aids for the brake and throttle make this a masterful teaching aid. Awesome!
Thank you!
This made it much more relatable for me. The context of actions and direction allowed me to relate to what I am doing today. And, I love your narrative through the turns: very Bob Ross in a good way!
I started using what I called trail braking some years ago. I’m not a high performance rider, don’t ride a sport bike. But within my comfort factor and the capabilities of my Road Glide (and lots of mods) I ended up with a series of techniques you describe as “riding by direction.” I look at the curve ahead, use the clues available, and slow with front brake until I’m comfortable in the turn. Maintain that (neutral throttle) until I see the exit, then on the throttle to straighten out and return to cruising speed. I’m riding quickly but not pushing any limits except my own comfort factor, and moving through the twisties a lot quicker than I used to. Now I know what to call it! Thanks!
The "Mr. Rogers" of motorcycle instruction. I feel so warm and fuzzy after this. Good video.
That's enough to make me want to go to the end, turn around and do it again! Outstanding play-by-play.
Your trail braking video years ago changed my riding. I feel so much more comfortable and safe on the road now. The endorsement class technique seems like it's avoiding trail breaking because it's much more likely that new riders will brake too hard, wash the front, and high side. I've had a lot of close calls following the old ignorant "accelerate while you lean" technique but not once have I felt unsafe slowly braking on the front until I see my exit. In fact, I'm counterintuitively faster AND safer. Thanks again for providing such excellent instruction for free.
I love your instruction but the video footage was badly marred by the bikes fly screen blocking the view of the upcoming bends. Need to place your recording device to reduce the blockage… keep up the good work
Yeah. I’m sorry about that. It was raining all day and I forgot to lower the screen. :(
I thought it was fine, exactly what it looks like when your in the seat.
@@brentfrank5491im a new learner and i would appriciete a lowered screen still a good video!
Agreed, could probably use some adjustment if Vlogs are ur thing...
@brentfrank5491 Some of it looked like it would be if we were piloting but several times the camera was below the screen instead of above which is how it would look assuming we were tucking in behind and peering over the top.
6:04 "We are not locked in to a process." Key! Flexibility, as if you have one more variable that you can use to change direction.
Exactly! One of the big reasons riders crash is a failure to adapt.
Been loving these part 1/2 vids lately where you go out and demonstrate what you talked about in a previous vid!
Such a useful video. What I would have loved to see as a new rider wondering exactly how to negotiate curves. Even us experienced riders could use more videos like this.
What a ride! I do agree that at the beginning you showed us a pretty tricky spot where loosing control over the bike's direction and speed would be catastrophic. Nonetheless, even as beautiful as the scenery is I still think that road is nothing compared to some of the highly dangerous ones we have here in Latin America. With countless canyons, huge potholes, blind and almost U-turn corners and fog/forest covering all the natural lighting I feel that venturing to conquer them really would feel as making a non return trip 😅 Finally, I acknowledge that you wanted to show us how to tackle such challenging roads as comprehensively as possible but the car at the end kind of got in the way although I really would've loved to see how to maintain a more conservative pace behind the car during the twistier section of that road segment and then how to safely get ahead of it when the road conditions were more adequate to do so. Thanks a lot for your hard work and for also showing us your right hand movements in detail! Best regards.
I love your instruction. Very calm and clear direction. I used to be a roadracer. I wish I knew some of the very thought provoking ideas you share in your videos. I just found your channel and have subscribed. Looking forward to watching more of your videos. 👍
Thank you!
Excellent video, the camera on the brake was the perfect idea for examples. Going to make the wife (new rider) watch as once she can see while riding it is easily translated whilst riding. Trail braking used to be related to track only, but for riders that know their machines always use the method in twisties, and it definitely improves the ride and safety 10 fold. Thanks for this video!
Glad it was helpful! It's such a basic technique that gets overly complicated. Slow down until we are happy with our speed and direction, right? We do it in our car. We do it when we pull into the driveway. We probably all do it on our bicycles.
All i can say is thank your very much, here on Perú there's not a single academy nor instructor to learn from, but i got your videos, they helped me a lot, at the point that im still alive, so again, thank you.
Love the little nugget of wisdom in there. Obviously not your main point but still there: the apex is a byproduct of cornering, not a target. Bret Tkacs would be proud 😜
I watched this video on a big TV while jogging on my treadmill. It made me run wide in a corner and tip over in the gravel. :D
Got to love highway 12 and Hogback! Thanks for another great video, @canyonchasers
Great video for beginners as well as experienced riders. Your explanations make all the difference!
Thank you for the practical video… I watched part 1 first and it made sense “on paper” but this video really helped me understand the practical use of trail braking👍
This is awesome having the close up of your hand. I am practicing along with you. Cant wait to try it.
I deal with a ton of blind cornering in my region of North east-ish lots of foothills and the edges of the applilations . Makes for great riding. But always have to have head on a swivel . And we also have these things we call Deer. And where I am , we have some of the biggest most fed white tails in the country. Thanks for the upload. Experienced rider here but never experienced enough to sit down for a nice riding session from my Main Man Dave! @Canyon chasers !!!
I was leaning in every corner with you! Awesome video, other than the windscreen blocking the view of the road, but awesome none-the-less. Great information and the visual of your right hand put it over the top. Will be sharing this with my less experienced friends.
I know, sorry about the stupid screen. It was raining all day and I forgot to lower it again before I started taping. When I got home (two days later) I was gutted by my mistake.
I enjoyed this video so much. Great job!
Thank you very beautifully explained 👍👍👌👌❤️❤️
I really like the tape and brake indicator.
Fun to see the blip on downshifts. Nice vid.
I love the constant commentary about what you're doing with brake and throttle. It's very helpful. Sometimes the mechanics of certain methods is lost when not explained in a real-world demonstration like this! I've been working on improving my trail braking (I ride a Gold Wing) and it really helps. My initial problem (which one of your videos solved for me) was that I tended to "brottle" and create conflicting signals to the bike. No bueno. Now I am working on smoothing out my throttle inputs while keeping two fingers on the brake. I can do it, but it's not as smooth as I would like it to be, and that can cause a bit of abruptness that I don't want. Thing is, the throttle is extremely touchy on my Wing, and so finesse takes practice. The Wing has so much power, and so abruptness is NOT my friend. Thanks again, Dave. You ARE the man!!
Look at your brake lever position. I’m planning a video on this. But you may need to rotate your brake lever on the bar to put it in a better position. And you may need to adjust the lever closer or farther away to be right where you want it to be.
@@CanyonChasers - A video on this would be awesome!!! I will definitely take a look at the brake lever and see what I can glean from that. I may have to just play with a couple different positions to find that "sweet spot." Thanks, Dave!!
AWESOME! thanks for the tour - it's a rainy Sunday night here... It just needed a little bit more exhaust noise from the big D
great video really basic and I said in a good way, sometimes we even think or forget the fundamental. That are so important to stay safe and off the ground.
WOW!!! What a road!!! thanks for bringing me along for the ride and remembering to continue the commentary, well done. Just that road would be enough to make me want to visit America! That bit early on where it seems like you are riding along a twisty ridge with a drop either side is truly spectacular!
Right!?! It's like where they filmed those Coyote and Roadrunner cartoons.
Have watched this video a few times and each time it makes more and more sense.
Super video and a super road Dave. Definitely a road you'd need to, concentrate on as it's a long way down if you make a mistake. Well done 🤓
Thanks for your upload. Helps a lot. For tight and blind bends. For gentle bends there is no need to touch the brakes, engine braking does the job and gives you enough pressure on the front tire. Just look ahead. And preferably not through a dark windscreen.
Good stuff! I love, love, love that section of UT12!
This is a great technical explanation. Coming back into bikes, I coudlnt figure out the problem then remembered when I transferred from mt 750/4 in 1977 to my first car. Beetle 1302s and could believe how easy it was to just turn and steer through corners.All those years of doing this trail braking by instinct on a bike. Now having to relearn it all technically ie undoing 40 years of corner turning in a car. Ironically my Audis had to be driven like a bike as they had massive understeer due to the angles hanging ahead of the front axle line ie slow in and gentle power out
Thank you for the demonstration! Such a great visual for a trail breaking!
Glad you enjoyed it!
Loved this view even better than the love letter to Utah 12 video. Great to see the rider perspective. Thanks
Great job! Thank you very much!
At 2:26 you mention “that is not a Florida view right there!” I was born in New Mexico because my dad was stationed at Holloman AFB there (he chose it because he preferred desert riding as a motocross racer), and now I live in FL. I just moved here from Vegas. I want to move back to the desert! That view is absolutely gorgeous!
Thanks for the great Info on Trail Braking!! I have learned a lot watching your Videos.
I rode HWY 12 on Sept 2022 and had a blast! I stopped at the peak of that road and took great pictures.
It’s an epic road, right?
@@CanyonChasers I live in Mexico and I watched your video “Love Letter” czcams.com/video/dsTXvANkgTA/video.html and I planned my Solo 10 day trip from Chihuahua to California to specially make it through HWY 12 . I rode, Lake Powell, Grand Canyon, Bryce Canyon Park, HWY 12, Yosemite Park and Monterey California and back to Chihuahua.
It was the climax of all roads!! 👌🏻
Thats awesome!!!
Brings back memories, this one time on my vfr800…
Oh my! Dave if those vistas look this good on a GoPro, how lovely should it have been riding and having fun...
They are indescribable in real life.
Great vidio, sometimes i think im doing too much, but this vidio lets me know im on track. I ride a supped up 883XLC and watch all yuor stuff.
I dig that XLC - cool bike!
I rode hwy 12 couple weeks ago... mostly in the rain. I got caught in a brief white out hail storm, too. Then had to manage riding on the ice that was melting into larger sheets of ice in various spots all over the road. I stopped at Kiva Coffee. Cuz, well... =)
I finally get it. THANK YOU!
🙏🏽🙏🏽🙏🏽🙏🏽always helpful!
Thanks for the video
What a road 🤩
Looks like hwy 12 in Utah, love that ride ! Now onto the video.
Fantastic video as always!
I don't know if you prefer to have some throttle slop. I don't (KTMs with ride by wire here) and got some spacers from Ducati spacers to get rid of that slop. Love it.
I loathe throttle slop. Makes me crazy. Ride by wire is so fantastic!
The best illustration of "Neutral Throttle": enough throttle to maintain speed and direction....not enough to widen the arc. Shows well two additional concepts transition from brake to throttle before acceleration, and overall Tempo.
Like a dance smooth and rhythmic.
What a beautiful road. I wish I had known about it in 2001 when I was in Utah. This video is good but could have been great without the dark tinted wind screen that often blocks most of the important forward view. The inserted window showing throttle and front brake works well.
I think trail braking should be THE way to teach riders to corner at speed. It is so much more confidence instilling than slow-look-press-and-roll. I say this, because into the corner you almost always need to slow down and staying on the brakes allows you to control speed, which in the end, controls direction or rather curve radius (which is direction on a bike in a curve). Also, almost any bike will turn better under front braking, which means better handling through the first part of the corner. When I started trail braking over the "beginner method", I said, why in the world do they teach it any other way. It's not harder. In fact, if you ask me, it is easier. But, maybe that is just me? Trail braking for the win!
This is exactly how I experience it.... I also feel that lightly touching the rear brake while accelerating hard out of a corner helps keep the rear wheel from slipping out. That and it's absolutely true that applying front brake shortens the wheelbase and a bike with a shorter wheelbase can turn a smaller radius than one with a longer wheelbase.... But what do I know I only ride in the dirt 🤣
I agree. But we’ve been teaching it to brand new nugget riders for a while now with great results. Slow until you are happy. Accelerate when we can see our exit and take away lean angle. It works at any speed.
@@CanyonChasers it's got to be that way with a new Rider
Okok, Utah HW 12 is on my bucket list now. Thanks man :D
Thanks for the ride-along! I sorta wish you had a clear windscreen on the MTS - I was practicing this technique by holding invisible bars and following your commentary. Practice makes better, as they say!
Let me offer this analogy:
Mixing front brake and acceleration is like mixing coming and going.
You don’t.
“Maintenance” is like standing still (you are neither coming or going.)
Always wanted to be a philosopher when I grow up…except I pledge never to grow up.
Thank you!! I remember that! Break! Maintenance! and accelerate!
I noticed a couple times. You started pulling throttle and your head lifted slightly and gave the images of weight transfer and understeer. Demonstrating running wide if you didn't have corner exit in sight.
I used technique you are showing to ride the twisties around my house in Tennessee. I was doing it at half speed but got really comfortable cornering and leaning. Thanks for the videos man. They are helping. Im NOT FAST but I feel safe.
Wow. Sharp eye! Acceleration absolutely shifts weight to the rear wheel, and technically, this does cause "understeer" although not in the sense that car people think of it. It's not "pushing" the front end. The geometry of the bike changes as the forks extend, which makes it basically stop turning and start running wide. Also, we want to keep in mind that grip comes from weight, so we don't want to whack the throttle open, but open it slowly, especially through the first five percent to give time for the weight to shift to the rear tire.
Thanks for watching and I'm glad to hear you are feeling safer out there!
I loved this vid!!! As a relatively newer rider this helps a lot!!! The one constructive criticism is that your windshield blocked some footage that could have added to the experience. Otherwise love your vids!!!
Utah Highway 12! Thank you, in the bucket list!!
I am really enjoying your videos. I also liked the part at 11:35 :)
This stuff turned my worst corner into the one i like the most. Medium thight (blind corner) down hill directly going into an opposite direction hair pin bend.
In my head I use the term "maintenance braking".
Epic road OMG i would love to ride there!
Great video, maybe you could do a video setup guide on brake lever angle setup and distance from bar, critical for trail braking
Great idea. We have a really, really old one. But updating it wouldn't be a bad idea. 13 years ago. Wow! I'm afraid to rewatch it myself: czcams.com/video/twW0ClpyLKc/video.html
Also, I really like the throttle marker and brake lever indicator
Beautiful road. I must get to Utah.
This technique exactly works in MTBs too! I was doing MTB for a long time, using it, and I immediately grasped the technique on bike as well!
💯% we think mountain biking is about the best cross training we can do. czcams.com/video/yemS81UUQLk/video.html
What a road!! If i would live nearby i would ride that road all day long.
It’s a day away. If it was closer we’d ride it every day too.
Beautiful scenery. I totally agree with you re. not riding by rote and learning to steer dependent on the road but FWIW you ride far too close to the wrong lines and often close the corner before you can see the exit. That's not safe to be teaching people. You always want to be able to look through the corner as much as you can.
I've only ridden in Utah a couple times. Good roads and beautiful places!
It's not bad, but tell too many people!
Good stuff
I FREAKED OUT on the first turn at the top of that mountain!!! I live in Miami where we don't even have hills. We're practically below sea-level. I'm afraid of any heights, especially those with no guard rails.
It's like star wars right - We do need no stinkin' hand-rails!
Same here 😂 Im in miami … we don’t have those altitudes or curves 😂
When he said “look that view..” all i see was my ass going down the mountain 😮
@@electroclassics 😂😂😂😂🤣🤣🤣🤣🫣🫣🫣
Awesome instructions Mate! As a newbie rider this video helps me big time. Btw, with Trail Braking do you recommend pressing the Rear Brake in conjunction with the Front Brake?
Damn you and your perfect roads.
Beautiful man
Thank you kindly
Where is that? Looks wonderful....
Oh, and great vid too! 👌
Edit - highway 12, utah. Pay attention at the back!
Totally thought you were joking or bullshitting about how amazing this route was gonna be until you came over the crest and I saw where you were going and holy cow bro hahahha
It's a bonkers good road - We try to pilgrimage to it at least once a year.
You can only trundle for so long, please stand by! Dude, you’re awesome.
People are funny. Either they criticize these video's because I'm going too fast or say I don't know what I'm doing because I'm going too slow. George Carlin was right once again: czcams.com/video/XWPCE2tTLZQ/video.html
@@CanyonChasers dude, like a good strong democracy, if everyone is happy, you’re doing it wrong. I think viewership speaks for itself.
I was looking for Torrey. Great video, wish the windscreen wasn't black though.
hello...thank you for the video. i have a question as you enter the corner or the curve and you use maintenance throttle and i can see you use mild controlled front brake ''' do you use the frictiction zone of the clutch at the same time as you use the front brake? and when do you use the rear break along with the front brake? is it when the turn is really sharp?
GREAT VID! Learned allot!! What exactly do you mean by maintenance throttle or neutral throttle?? Is this strictly throttle or are you using front brake also?? Thank you!!
We actually never ever ever want to overlap front brake with throttle. Maintenance or neutral throttle is using just enough throttle to maintain speed, but not so much that we accelerate, where the number of the speedometer gets bigger.
Nice video. Just one question: what about the rear brake?. Would you mind to explain how to use it before and during the corner?
It depends. (I know, nobody likes that answer). But on a cruiser of if you have a passenger, the rear brake is more effective. On a sport bike/naked bike, it's a lot less effective. So while the rear brake works, the front brake works a lot better and should be the one we rely on the most. Does that help?
I also apply both break during turns ..but only 2 to 5 percent of total break .. although I'm a new at bikes
Maybe I’m missing it, but you never mention the roll of engine braking in trail braking. Engine braking’ s effect mirrors the effect of braking with the front brake lever in that it increases front tire weight and alters rake and trail, resulting in the bike wanting to turn. In canyons, seasoned riders typically run a shorter gear than normal to stay off their front brake until a sharper corners requires it. If you’ve ever hit a false neutral and had your bike stand up straight as you run wide, you know what I’m talking about. Might be helpful to integrate engine braking into the equation.
Great channel, SUBBED! hope i see some motorcycle reviews by you!
We're hoping to get into some of that.
Can you also use the back brake, just lightly, similar to front brake as well for twisty descents?
luv it
This video is great! Thanks a lot!
I have a question: wouldn't downshifting produce the same effect as rear breaking?
Wouldn't we want In Trailbreaking to use only front breaking to increase weight and therefore grip on the front tire?
What did I misunderstand?
I believe you are correct. Downshifting is basically the same thing as the rear brake, only we have less control over it. The front brake is more precise and gives us more grip. For most students, I encourage them to go into down hill corners a gear, or two, higher than they normally do. They discover the corner is smoother, and they feel much more in control relying on the front brake more.
Beautiful ride!! Where is this at?
All the details, including a link to a map are in the description. 😎
If you mellow down the speech a wee bit I can use this audio during mediation for sure. Nice soothing rumble of the Ducati. :D
Do you recommend the same technique for Vespa TS 300 riders? (Maybe especially for newly licensed ones like this olf guy?)
Nice road
So easy to do when you got perfectly paved smooth roads. Where I am from I got to be looking out for pot holes, debris and uneven roads.
Right! In our sport conditions are always changing and rarely ideal.
Epic
Do you use only front brakes and then rear if needed? Which is better, front or rear brakes?
WOW