4 Years with our Solar System - Are Solar Panels for Home Still Worth It?
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- čas přidán 5. 06. 2024
- We have had solar panels on our family home for 4 years now. Lets look at the numbers!
So it is now time to look at our production numbers and see if going solar makes any financial sense! We will look at it in a few price ranges of what you pay per kWh in your area! :) Let's see if the return on the investment is worth it or if we wasted a lot of money....
Do I still think getting solar panels installer was a good idea? Let’s see....
If you are looking to install a solar system for your home, I truly hope that my videos will become a guide for you. You can also reach out to me for help or a quote if you are in the DFW area.
Email: info@solartimeusa.com
Phone ( text or call) 972 675 7725
-----Contents of this video ----------------------------
0:00 Intro
0:17 System layout
1:00 Ground mount solution
4:25 Ground mount benefit summary
7:00 Benefit of multiple azimuths
8:35 Bifacial panels
9:35 AC vs DC runs
10:53 Did it make financial sense?
12:00 4 years of data
14:05 ROI
14:52 Yearly kWh production
16:43 4 years of production
16:50 Faster ROI
______________________________________
Product Recommendations
EG4 Battery
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$180 EV Charger! amzn.to/3WKonpj
Good quality Portable Generators:
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DuroMax: amzn.to/476xOlz
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Huge thanks to:
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Disclaimer:
I may earn a small commission for my endorsement or recommendation to products or services linked above, but I wouldn't put them here if I didn't truly recommend them. Your purchase helps support my channel and the videos I make. Thank you :) - Věda a technologie
If you are in DFW, don't hesitate to reach out: 972 675 7725 ( call or text) or shoot me an email: info@solartimeusa.com
If you are not, you can also reach out, I do solar consultations and quotes review all the time :)
Leave some thoughts below! I try to respond to all comments! :)
That ‘s a lot of panels! We just took the time to study and learn all about residential solar systems, started by designing a small test system, then built a complete off-grid home system DIY that powers our entire home. Saved about 40-50% off quoted system installs, received 30% tax credit and have a complete alternative power system that cost a little more than installing a whole home backup generator. Everyone won’t do that, but they can. ⚡️👍☀️🔋
WOW! What a story, thank you for sharing and I am so glad you did what you did :) Happy producing!!!
@@solartimeusa I think it speaks volumes about you and your teams goals and integrity that you don't poop all over people on a super tight budget who DIY. Keep on being you.
I love your channel, so honest you are especially since you are in the business, and you have a pretty smile.
THANK YOU for being so supportive, I really appreciate it!
Roof maintenance should be factored in. For example, flat roof lasts about 10 years so will be replaced at least twice during the life of the panels. Roof leakage is common with other setups and is actually caused by the installation in some cases. The average roof will need replacing during the life of the panels. This requires removing ( with possibly voiding the warranty) the system and reinstalling. Government promises of buying power can be offset by new fees.
I stumbled upon this video and I have to say, well done!
Thorough, honest, no BS. Love real data, not just predictions based on software.
A question for you, has the system produced what the software predicted it would?
It would be interesting to see what was originally estimated vs what it actually produced
Welcome aboard! I hope you will stay as a subscriber!
As far as our forecasted production versus what actually happened we track data by month, here is the spreadsheet link:
docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1_gLCttG2aOrqfQ2wHRSeZlIBbsZM6V7OkF_b4eQVzVU/edit?usp=sharing
Overall SPOT ON! :)
We just put in 12KW system near Nashville TN. We have shading issues and on our 30 panels are using APSystems DS3-S inverters. Cost was way to much (we made some bad choices). We started making electricity in early March and except for a few occasions have not used grid power. We do have batteries, but there is no return for electricity sent to the grid (TVA Area) where our nominal incremental cost of power is 10.3 cents/kwh pretty much year round. We have enjoyed no power outages, even sporadic. Our production does vary a lot, 50KWh on a great day 13 on a poor day. Most are about 30. We are looking forward to see what we really get over a year or so.
Always great information, you do a great job presenting these informational videos.
Thank you so so much! You have no idea who much the support here means to me!
Amazing. You're the only person I've seen who has listed ground mount benefits, including optimizer elimination. A pergola panel system. Brilliant!
So glad it was helpful! Thank you for leaving a comment! :)
My neighbors did not understand that even with the sun shining when the power grid was down during the Big Texas Freeze they could not use the energy from the solar panels. Very unhappy that the solar company did nor tell them about the design failure in the Grid Tie systems. No power from the "power company" = no power from you solar system.
Yes, that is a big lie told my many solar reps. BUt yes unless there is a battery ( bucket for the excess solar production to go to) the system will turn off, and that is law.
Grid Tie inverters need a pilot 60 hz signal to sync to. A Tesla Powerwall will provide, and battery storage. Will retrofit a grid tie inverter to one that operates off-grid.
@@N4HHE luckily I live in Europe. We only need 50 Hz to make it work 😂
@@woutmoerman711 well, you need a 50 Hz pilot signal for a grid tie inverter to know what to sync to. This also shuts down the inverter in the event of a power failure nominally protecting line workers. Line workers have a great fear of home-generated power from PV and gensets.
@@N4HHE I know, and I like to compliment you for the good explanation!
18 years solar owner, purchased best of best for time, SunPower 220W and after hail totalled my roof had solar removed. Considering not putting the old system back up because you can get panels with twice the wattage and only slightly larger panel. Also after 18 years microinverters have become king and shading is a lot larger problem in my residential neighborhood.
Hello from your neighbor in Allen, Texas. We have 11.5kw with 36kwh storage. Couldn't be happier with the results and 6 dollars electric bill during out triple digit heat as you know.
Oh Hi! I am so glad to hear for ya! :) I know what you mean about those low bills!
Happy Producing in the summer!!!
Nice, good info. I do want to DIY build a small to medium sized solar system in the front yard, covering something like a garden tool box, shade friendly garden, and/or a seating area. Some neighbors around the corner, with a chain link back yard next to a semi busy road have had solar panels on baby strollers for years now, so I am guessing nobody would make a big deal about seeing panels. I mostly want batteries under them to have charged if the power goes out. Just using the extra power after they are fully charged.
Great Video! Please consider doing a video on how you convinced your HOA to let you put panels in your yard on the ground. 🙏
Thank you so much for leaving the comment with the idea! I think it would be a good one! :)
You did an excellent job! Keep keeping it real. Props
Thank you so so much!
After seeing this I must say I am lucky. I have 11 panels, 3.9 kW peak. I have a 1903 house that was rebuilt and insulation added. Yes, there was none. But then again, no snow or high temps. This is what you get in the SF Bay Area. Got in under NEM 2.0 so for now the grid is my battery. My roof is less than 2 degrees different from the latitude and faces 8 degrees from south. Last year I was paid for my excess production of 2 MW-hr. You must pay retail but receive wholesale, So I got a check for $199. All electric house, heat pump heat/cool and water heater, induction cooktop, etc. The bill or check is for one year, Jan to Jan. I went negative until February and then started heading towards break even. Now in mid May I am positive 600 kW-hr. Before construction I figured the solar would help with the electric bill and it did, but the insulation helped even more!
Wooow! That is awesome, and thank you for sharing! I heard heard so many happy stories from before Nem 3.0 for sure..; )
The gravel underneath the panels aren't for making it look pretty, it's to reflect more light onto the bifacial panels.
Thanks for sharing :)
Lots of my clients don't have bifacial panels and still did the gravel so they don't have to deal with grass or mud under the system.
Thanks for sharing your numbers, definitely my fav when it comes to solar.
This makes me wonder if more panels = faster ROI by seeing your numbers? Is your setup overkill?
I would def do a white eflective floor to put the ground mounts. No grass below it, easy to maintain.
That really depends on the buyback available. When we went solar in 2020, Oncor still had an amazing 1-1 net metering. At one point we even got a $2,500 check back. As of now, this is no longer the case, so for newer systems this will depend on the situation. I did a video about how the buybacks affect the sizing of the system here: czcams.com/video/9Kupd6IJOvA/video.html
We did end up adding 2 EVs to our home and a hybrid + a big pool so we are definitely using more power too :)
lowering the ground rack makes more sense then lifting it high up...
you can hide most of the ground rack/panels very well with a small bush or by rasing the ground right infront of the rack (without shading it ofcourse)
a level differece in the garden can hide them pretty good
lowering this rack in the video 0,5-1m would make a big difference to how it looks
Thank you so much for sharing, yes agreed, the lower the better, and small bushes are great to camouflage it even more. :)
Your videos are great!
I am so so happy you are liking them! :) Thank you for the support!
Excellent summary.
Thank you so so much!
Great video as always Martyna... numbers don't lie, but door to door solar installers often do! (I only say that because I KNOW Solartime does NOT go door to door)
Yes very very true....
In Seattle rain, our solar system has an estimated 15 year pay back. That’s starting to get hard to pencil out but we still did it, are very happy with the performance, and believe a guaranteed 5% return plus some added value to the house / environmental benefits are worthwhile. Thanks for your video
Thank you for sharing, if you dont mind, can you say what yall pay per kWh in Seattle ?
Happy producing, I like to say! :)
After a vase service charge of about $16, we then pay about $0.13 per kWh, We have cheap electricity from hydro dams in the NW but long dreary winters. Have a 16 KW system and in dead of rainy winter have had days of producing barely 1 kWh. Our long summer days make up for it some. Eastern WA has 300 plus sunny days a year and is ideal for solar. Western WA only pencils out because of the 30% Fed tax credit AND a good 1-1 net metering deal. That is probably going away soon in favor of some time of use formula. My son has solar in San Diego and had a 3 year payback. That was great and the climate is perfect but they are now squeezing new systems with a time of use net metering that isn’t nearly as good. In fact, we’d like to expand our San Diego system but if we do a new permit / contract is necessary and won’t be nearly as good.
@@solartimeusa .102566 per kwh in Marysville, WA, which is about 30 miles north of Seattle. It should be the same in Seattle.
Electricity is so cheap here, it really doesn't make as much sense to go solar.
It's cheap because we have so much hydro and wind.
@@solartimeusa I'm in Marysville, WA, about 30 miles north of Seattle and we have a base charge of $17 and then our per kilowatt-hour charge is 0.102566.
We’re anxious to see your review of the new Sunny Boy Smart Energy Hybrid inverters. Great videos!
I am looking forward to testing it for sure!!! :)
Putting the panels on the ground also saves money and time by needing less permitting. The return on rates now also depends on your local power company's rates and fees. In Idaho, the power company has changed to a "buyback" model. This means that depending on the time you make your power, if it is in non-peak times, they will pay you two cents, when they charge everyone else 8 cents for power during that time period. During peak hours, they will pay you 4 cents and charge everyone else 12 cents per kw. When you need to buy back power at night, they use up all credits, and charge you the standard 8 to 12 cents for any power you draw from them. So now, in Idaho, if you want to install solar panels to help out your neighbors, you really pay for it if you don't install batteries at the same time. Idaho Power wants to make sure they are the only ones to supply power to anyone here. It's a big middle finger up to all of us from them. They want to make sure they are the only producers.
Their time for celebrating themselves will be over soon.....dirt cheap batteries are on the way.
The question I would have is about the roof work. Mainly because roof work ain’t cheap.
Ground mount is best if you have the space. Less permit drama also.
great information .
Thank you!
Another option is to use the solar panels to create a covered outdoor space by mounting them 10-15 feet above the outdoor living area that’s separated from your house.
yes! very good idea for those with limited space especially, not to take away more sq footage of the yard for sure! Thank you for sharing :)
I find there is a lot of infrared radiating off the bottom of the panels, making the area under them less pleasant than the patio shaded by the house. It's nice under them in the rain now that I have channels for the drips.
Ground mounted are best because you can put the house back to grid only if you’re selling and transfer your panels to a new location with less cost.
Thank you for leaving the comment :)!
excellent information
I so appreciate the feedback!
This was a very good video. What are your thoughts on battery storage for emergencies? A video on that would be helpful.
Thank you so much for leaving a comment, yes I definitely need to make some more content on batteries. I do think that they make sense for outages if those happen often. They also now start making financial sense when the homeowner uses the battery daily for self consumption.
In our case, we had 1 power outage during the winter storm in 2021, and it never happened again, and with the buyback we have had, it just didnt make sense to spend money on it just yet! :)
I will work on a few fews on batteries and sizing them properly. One is for sure coming out in the next week or 2.
What are your thoughts about solar tracking systems for ground mount systems? I own some stock in 1 such company, FTC Solar which is Austin TX, and I am also thinking in investing in another, Array Technologies . What are your thoughts about solar shingles? What sort of energy storage/battery systems have you looked at that are worth installing in homes?
I own stock in Jinko Solar and in a number of other lesser known solar energy companies.
Great video. Wouldn’t bifacial panels be a case for a raised ground mounted system? If it’s raised, wouldn’t you get a lot more reflected sun hitting the back sides of the panels?
Yes. Also with high ground mounts you can plant pollinator friendly shade loving plant mixes and garden herbs to help out the local pollinators and give yourself a beautiful look. I hope to discuss this very thing with Martyna soon.
Could you do a bifacial panel in an east to west 90 degree to the ground(straight up and down) vs regular ground mount output? I saw some info that the bifacial 90 would outproduce the regular ground mount.
I want to test it, personally I do not thing it would outperform a perfect south facing array, but thats just my theory! :D
@@solartimeusa yeah I am intrigued as it's getting sun all day but the peak outputs are obviously morning / evening, which may have benefit for those with with time of day use. But the testing others have put forth suggested that setup actually generated more electricity overall.
@@solartimeusa I'm in Wylie with some 132cell 4'x8' Bifacial HJT Half Cell Double-glass modules (23%efficency) you can borrow and 'test' with. I need to build my system (DIY) and am still finishing design, so my panels are idle. Just discovered your great channel and now I want to visit with you about solar and my project.
This is quite interesting, thanks - and it's commitment to take your vail off and do it on your wedding day : -)
hahahahaha :D good one!
@@solartimeusa 😁 Glad you enjoyed!
there is snow brooms with Styrofoam head, handles are extendable, makes snow removal easier
Great to know! Thanks for sharing! Our roof during the storm was so frozen and we didn't have the extendable one so we only cleaned the ground array.
Hello Martyna. Could you do a video on the different Certifications that a consumer would want to have on Solar Panels? For example: UL certifications for hail etc.
Awesome video and alot of info.
How much storage do you have if any ?
None as of now. We have had a really good buyback for the most part, so it didn't make much financial sense, and we only lost power once in the 4 years in this home. So I just couldn't justify it yet. BUT i am waiting to see what we shall put in this house for sure :D
@@solartimeusaI’m looking at Bluetti EP900 + 3 B500 to use for off grid storage and use with outages and low solar output. What’s your thoughts?
Those payback calculations are accurate if you are using all those KWh's that are produced, but if a big chunk is going back to the grid at a greatly reduced rate then you need to adjust the payback calculation.
Hey! yes, so I was thinking that hopefully homeowners can use my net metering video and then be able to properly size the system to get that fastest ROI.
We were blessed enough to get 1-1 with even a check for $2,500 back from the utility back in 2021. Now the buyback is worse, but still pretty good, we pay 19 cents and get credit for about 14/15 cents back.
@@solartimeusa Wow, that's great and a big thumbs up for Texas
Personally, I think putting the solar panels so close to the ground is not logical. They would get very dirty due to the proximity to the ground. If they were placed at a height of say 10 feet or so, the area below the solar panels could be used as a parking space or as shade.
Also, it is a good idea if you are using all that solar power within a day or at least storing it for a day or two. But there should be some mechanism to do some useful work with extra energy if you are not able to use them all.
We have not washed the panels once in the past 4 years and they are still doing great :) We could not go higher than 4.5 feet due to HOA restrictions.
Thanks for the info! I guess no extra repairs or damage of the system?
In the past 4 years we haven't spent any money on it. In texas we tend to get bad hail storms in May-June season, but so far no issues, and we have the panels insured under home policy in case something does happen.
Micro Inverters on the ground makes a lot of sense because you have no high-voltage on the panel. Using a Micro-Inverter you have about 40V at the panel. Using a String inverter you have up to 1000V on the panel.
Lets assume the Kids put there bicycle on the solar panel, glas breaks and suddenly the have 1000V on the bike against ground, very very dangers.
Another plus point for micro inverters is the no single point of failure. String inverters have a life time of about 10-12 year, when they get defect solar does not work anymore.
Micro inverters have a live span of 25 year, if one breaks the solar production continues with the remaining panels.
The only advantage I see for the string inverters is the lower initial purchase price, however over a period of 25 year it is the same price.
Thank you for your videos. Regards from Germany.
Respectfully you can spin "what if's" all day long. One thing about both micro's and string inverters looks like they are going to get cheaper for what you get every year going forward. And batteries especially are going to plummet.
Exactly. I was thinking about using a SolArk string inverter for the 11.5 kW ground mount I'm about to do, but given that the lot is not fenced, I don't want the liability of HV DC, so will use micros.
Both DC and AC can be dangerous if appropriate safety precautions are not followed... So if a system is improperly connected both will cause an issue, but the goal is to never to it improperly. Those are insulated wires. Fun fact is that a human body is naturally more resistant to DC than AC. And AC is said to be 5 times more dangerous than DC. I say, both are dangerous when not properly installed. But choosing one over the other for the safety reasons seems a bit ignorant in my opinion.
Are you not going to install a battery because it stores power in DC?
@@solartimeusa dear Martyna, the DC from the Solarpanel und DC with the batterie are two completely independent DC power circuits. E.g. DC from the Solar, e.g. 700V will be up or down converted via AC and converted again to the matching DC voltage and power for the battery. There is no single string inverter which pushes the Solar DC directly into the battery. So your argument is invalid.
Thanks for your great educational videos, love it.
Just out of curiosity did you ever put a protective coating on your panels?
No:) nothing added.
When I purchased my solar system in DFW, I was paying 5 cents/kWh + TDU for a net of around 9 cents/kWh. As of June 2024, that rate has increased to 11 cents/kWh + TDU for around 15 cents/kWh. That lengthens the payback period significantly. I'm currently on track for a 23 year payback but that will continue to decrease if the electric rates continue to increase, unless net metering (ignoring TDU) goes away and then the floor will fall out. You can't just multiply solar production with the electric rate unless your electric company pays the same rate for generation as consumption. No retail vendor in the DFW area offers that nor do I expect them to start. It's only going to get worse for solar payback as far as I can predict.
I am from Belize CA and I am interested in solar. But don't know how to get started and where I can get it from
Instead of installing ON the roof, is it practical to install solar panels AS the roof ?
Shelter for Garage, Greenhouse, Terrace, Deck...
Is there a tried & tested way of joining many panels with water-tight seal between them ?
No. You could install on shade area with slats but the rain will leak through. Not water proof.
Not really UNLess ITS A WATER resistant structure such as carport, or patio cover. But if you want to have a 100% sealed structure the roof will be needed.
Thanks for your replies, people, it's highly appreciated !
That's a ton of panels, I think just 8 x 400 watt panels would suffice for what I use, LOL! It's that air conditioning and heating in north Texas. What I can't figure out is there some kind of modular ground mount system that installers use.. I see a few of them for sale, but they seem excessive to some extent.. just curious if solar installers go to a kit, or if they have go-to parts that form the whole ground mount system?
Some installers will buy ready made ground mounts and I had ours welded and built by my installer.
I do not like using the movable ones, with a motor that directs the panels towards the sun, as the motors tend to need more maintenance and break, so I suggest spending thate xtra money on few extra panels versus the tracking system.
I am never going to understand the reason buying house in HOA. So many dumb rules will out weight all the benefits it can give.
/rant over
Love your channel.
haha I agree! And Thank you!
I don’t know any utility in our area that is paying those high buyback rates. Most utilities charged retail for power used, but only pay wholesale for power sold back to them.
In Calif that is NEM 3.0. NEM 2.0 swaps your power for theirs. Same price. But PGE will not pay for overproduction and yearly true-up. You just get reset to zero. You give them any extra production at the end of the year.
@@merlpriester If PG&E is your utility but your energy supplier is different you will have to pay wholesale for any excess of consumption over production for the year. If you produce more than you consume you are paid the wholesale price for the difference for the whole year. I was paid a few hundred dollars for 2 MW-hr of excess. This is for NEM 2.0.
NEM 3.0 charges you retail anytime you are consuming, i.e. production is less than consumption, and pays you wholesale anytime you are putting power into the grid.
If you are on NEM 2.0 you can use the grid as a battery. If you are under NEM 3.0 and are often putting power into the grid, it is time to get your 30% tax credit for batteries!
We have acres and are considering a ground mounted system. I am concerned about integration with our whole home propane generator. Have you ever installed solar with a generator in the mix? Challenges, issues?
Hey Scott!
Yes i have and i have some thoughts!
1. Solar (no battery) + Generator work well together. During an outage, the mainsource of power will be your propane generator, and solar will be automatically turned off. That is so that the generator or solar dont bother one another or burn one another :D We don't want any backfeeding, since there is no storage ( battery). But overall doing solar only + generator is very solid.
2. Bigger challenge starts when there is both battery as back up and generator. Some manufacturers like Sol-Ark and EG4 offer ability to charge the batteries with generators ( but it is much safer when generator is portable and not whole home, usually below 80 amps) then its not a big deal, and a pretty solid defense system. So the order is as follows: Grid down, batteries kick in, and if needed you have an option to use the gen to charge the batteries up.
3. Using whole home generator paired with batteries. Here you want the batteries to be your first line of defense, and when dead, the whole home generator can kick in, and power the home during the long term outage. IN this case some manufacturers say they can work together ( generator and solar with batteries) but we have had pretty rough experience, so i would suggest not mixing them up. So just using one source at a time, without risking one damaging the other, and then manufacturers pointing fingers ...
I hope this was helpful.
Option 1 and 2 are your best bets in my opinion!
Thanks for the feedback!!
Of course! If you have any more questions, dont hesitate to reach out! :)
We have 60 East-West Qcells 400W and still can't generate enough to power a 4200 sq. ft home. We have unplugged a refrigerator, turned off ALL our pool equipment and use heat pump washer dryers. We have three AC units with Easy Start devices. I'm just at a loss as to how we are still 40% dependent on the grid. Considering adding ground mount panels but already $75K into this project. Suggestions?
HI! What area of the country are you in and is it an even split of panels east and west? Give me as much detail about your system as you are comfortable with. You can also email me the info at the address in the description.
First I want to calculate what the expected production should be of your existing system to make sure you are getting what you should be before I make any suggestions. Need to rule out production issues. I will say that if it were in the DFW area and an even split east west with 0 shading, I would expect roughly 30,000 kWh per year but this will be different everywhere on the planet.
Also maybe understanding the net metering/ buyback policy that you are part of could be causing higher-than-expected bills. Let me know!
@@solartimeusa I'm in College Station. Even split- 60 panels, 60 Enphase IQ8+ microinverters. We have net-metering but hardly ever have enough to export; constantly importing 40% in the daytime and 100% at night. Getting 2PW3 installed in about a month but not sure if we can even charge them with our production!
120kw production per day, 3,600kw/ mo (based on only 5 hrs daily) you seem to have energy inefficiency and you are using a lot of power. You can cut loads, use more energy efficient appliances, higher seer AC, LED lighting, or add more panels. VSun makes a 430 bifacial, and QCells makes a 485 bifacial. Best of luck.
@@ElPasoTom Thanks for the reply. House is three years old, all AC units new with five zones set at 75 degrees before units come on, appliances are energy efficient, stove is natural gas, 2 refrigerators, 1 freezer. Everything else is standard. I'm at a loss as to what's happening.
@@everymickle1278 The best answer will come from your electric bill. Look at your last 12 months usage in KwH, and if net metered what you are putting back. I would focus on June, July, August, and Sept. Here in El Paso those are my high usage months...every other month of the year I have a zero bill.
thankyou
You're welcome!
If you get less $ per kWh selling it to the power conglomerates than you pay per kWh, that is NOT Net Metering. Net Metering means the meter turns forward when you use electricity, and backward at the SAME RATE when you return electricity. The "net" result is you total you pay is: kWh Used - kWh Sent = kWh at regular rate. Anything else is not Net Metering.
What's the point of keeping it below the fence line? The fence doesn't block the view. I would like to have a shaded area to use below in nice weather.
I think its was more f a rule that HOA just wanted to follow so people to build them high up. But yeah I am with you on it...
HOA has to assert authority or surrender their little empire.
Doesn't Texas charge an extra fee if you back feed power to the grid? I was told it was an extra $35 a month which would negate 200 kilowatt hours a month of power at your 17 cents per kilowatt hour rate. Can you pay off a system quicker if you don't send power to the grid, but add a battery that could store one hour of your systems peak production?
There are different buyback options in different areas. In our home we had 1-1 for most time, this past year we got on a buyback that we pay 19 cents ( that extra 4-5 cent oncor fee is included) and they pay us 15 cents for credits, BUT its a buyback not net metering, so our bills go a bit higher than our negative all year round. Still with 2 x EVs and a pool we don't pay more than $150-$200 in the summer ( no bills in gas for our cars :))
Compared to neighbors who pay close to $900 every month in the neighborhood... :(
We are considering adding a battery in the future, but our nighttime consumption is closer to 40-60 kWh so we would need to make sure we add an adequate amount.... Still thinking. I dont want to half as* it and just add 1 x battery you know....
imo the cost of cheap used panels now days being ~10-15cents per watt, it makes a lot of sense to throw up cracked panels on horozontal surfaces like fences which get any direct sun at all... and just run them in strings of 2 or 4 into a zero xport inverter or some kind of DC heat pump without any purchase agreement. getting 1/3rd the output would still mean a payback period of 2-3 years. kind of a diy solution, doubt many installers would want to do something like this and would probably ruin the ROI to be closer to 10 years. then test the panels every month and throw out the ones that fail. no micro inverters or anything. you can get 1.5kw single phase zero xport inverters for like 150 bucks from china right now which is crazy.
people need to start thinking about dirt cheap solar panels as building materials. theyre cheaper than sheets of plywood and are usually fine out in the elements unlike untreated plywood.
Can we sell power back to the grid in Texas? I am in Houston. If not this won’t make sense for me since we use the most energy at night and we have no battery to store the extra.
Hi, That depends on a buyback you can get in your area. I am in North Tx and our buyback is not bad, so even though a lot of our usage happens at night we still produce all during the day and sell back any excess to build up a credit.
Battery is not always the solution. In some cases you can do a smaller offset instead.
czcams.com/video/9Kupd6IJOvA/video.html&lc=UgzP3EbKwDRpC-wLoOF4AaABAg
This video talks about sizing your system properly. Maybe it will be helpful.
I would like to invite you for advice, but I won't pay for the flight so it's unlikely ever will happen :-) It's also nice how you addressed everything, you really haven't left anything out. Well, the situation here is completely different, I think only very few people have that much space in front of their house in Switzerland and if they do, they will probably no longer be interested in the electricity costs at all. On the other hand, it would also bother me a bit if people could see so openly through my garden as by you at home Just seeing it makes me nervous.
I'm thinking about Biacinale solar panels as a privacy screen - and actually strange, solar panels are currently pretty much the cheapest privacy screen you can get - we usually use WPC (wooden plastic composite) as longtime solution. But by WPC you're already at the price of a solar panel per square meter - so it's cheaper but produces electricity. Supposedly they are used more in the north-south axis with panel alignment to east-west, but I really don't know enough about that. But it doesn't matter, it's cheaper than WPC so you can save money and earn money at the same time..... So with all of your very good and very interesting tips, that was the only one that was missing.
HI! You know its actually a brilliant idea and I have seen it last year in Munich in Germany. THey use those solar panels that have more spacing between cells and it is used as pergola's roofs and privacy fences. I think its a brilliant idea!
Do keep me posted if you end up pursuing it!
www.agora-solar.com/_files/ugd/03eede_bdbcc4ad068a46f6a39d4448147b67c5.pdf
here is a link to one of the ones I saw last year during InterSolar Europe.
I would think bifacial panels would be best for ground mount east/west. Panels
I am planning to test bifiacials facing south versus bifacial facing east/ west.
@@solartimeusa In northern Sweden where I live the optimal angle for maxing out the panels feb-nov is 45 degrees towards south, but it give a great benefit to also add a couple of kw as a fence with east/west bifacial panels, those increase the power "a lot" during the october/Mars period when the sun is really low and mostly get reflection from the Snow. I also scaled up my setting with 10kW extra and a DIY 100kWh LiFePO4 battery to handle a Bitcoin Miner as a side benefit, it take 5500W 24/7 and heat up all the basement at the same time as it give back around 0.03 BTC/month :) That ius the real Win win as long asw BTC is running it's course :)
Plsss why did the floor panels have a higher output than the south facing roof mounted panels even when they produced at the same time period of the day
I'm guessing because the roof was hotter and the ground mount had better cooling being open on the backside.
Given that you’re generating 100 kWh/day, you must be selling back. Are you part of Ercot and if so, what provider are you using and what is their buy back rate?
Yes, so we do use a lot of it for our 2 EVs. We do sell a bit and we also do use a lot too. But we have been part of Chariot RISE plan ( DO NOT Recommend their Shine ( with RTW) plan). We are currently testing TXU under Oncor, and will also want to try the Gexa one. I am not a huge TXU fan as of the last 2 months. We are building up a credit but it does not cover any of their base fees unfortunately...
Overall Chariot Rise was one of the better ones.
Lots of our customers who have batteries ( properly sized) like to use the free nights plan. Those will have pretty high daytime rates, but can charge EVS free at night and in some chases charge the batteries up if needed.
As you eluded, the biggest savings are realized from using the solar-generated power directly - at the time of generation. It looks like your system is significantly oversized - well beyond personal requirements. Would your return on investment have been significantly earlier had you went with only a system that was a small percentage over personal requirements? A higher rate of return over a smaller initial investment?
Or were you looking at total return over the life of the system? More total energy produced and buy-back income after payoff?
It's oversized because she is not charging batteries and is only exporting her excess energy to the grid.
So how much did you use and how much did you sell? That will change the payback time. I do not sell back and I use all. In 1.5 years I have made 10mw (10 million watts). I built my whole system for just under $15,000 so I have saved $2200. That is a 10 year payback. If I had to pay $45,000 for my system after rebates. That is what they wanted to install it for me with even less battery size than I have it would have been 30 year payback and if I sold extra to grid it would have been 20 years with the amount they were willing to pay me.
I guess you mean 10kW that gave you around 10 MWh during the course of 1 year? It is just an impossible equation to get a 10MW system for 15000USD, it would also take up several full football field in size :)
@@jonasgranlund4427 LOL I was just saying how much I produced. I have this right now.
11,200 KW Solar panels Ground mount
14,300 KW x 4 battery banks
4 JK 250 amp BMS
2 5K all in one inverters
Auto Transformer
So many things like cutoff/ breakers etc... Since I built and installed it all I saved huge amounts of money. If I had to pay to have installed I would have never done it. Now battery prices are dropping fast if you know where to buy. I would really like to see there buy back prices and how they think they can get there system pay back back so fast. Also I might double battery and solar size so I can truly be off grid in winter.
Whew, after over 10 minutes we still don't know if it was advantageous! 🙋♂️
Thats why I try to mark the timeline.... to make it easier to search the video for what you want.
Sorry about that :)
There's only one thing that I would have done differently on your ground set up. I would have put in Greenhouse underneath and if you didn't want to take care of it, have someone you know. Take care of it and either grow vegetables of all the types in there or flowers, if you wanted to. We live in Alaska, so we have a roof-mounted system. So, it doesn't really work for us. And we have a quarter of the land that you do.
George Davis
Hi George, Thank you for sharing and yes, what a great idea! :)
Wow. 17, 19 and 25 cents per kwh USD?
In Ontario I pay 18.2 / 12.2 /8.7 time-of-use rates (13.5 / 9.0 / 6.4 in USD) and my average with no solar or arbitrage of any kind is 12.5 ($0.0925 USD), but I don't really try to manage when I'm using power.
And I thought MY electricity bill had gone up in recent years.
Of course, that's 100% "green" power where I live, being hydro, nuclear, wind and solar in about that order.
There was a big fight about the need for NatGas "peaker plants" (being strongly pushed by the Conservatives and the fossil fuel industry with the highly-touted threat of high prices and rolling blackouts. I was on the side of the people wanting to build the plants - we lost. Turns out it was a GOOD thing, we didn't NEED those plants, haven't had ANY grid problems that impacted the consumer and we would have been stuck paying for those dinosaurs.
Hmmm ... is there a lesson there? Nah, Texas doesn't learn lessons ... they teach them.
We're going to want to stay engaged here in Ontario. They just approved plans to build a gas peaker plant. Check out Ontario Clean Air Alliance for their campaign against it.
I have 60 panels and I’m surprised that you paid the same as I did (42k after tax incentives) even though you have over 70 panels. I shopped around quite a bit to get them as low as I did. I had one quote that was $105k! I produced 25mw the first full year but I’ve already had an inverter go out and I didn’t notice it for over 2 weeks and now I have to pay $600 in labor to get it replaced which took another 2 weeks to get the part in and replaced meaning I’m out about $900, plus a bunch of my time troubleshooting. I also pay $100 twice a year to have the panels cleaned and the yearly true up with the electric company costs me money as well. Then I’ll also have to replace my roof in 10 years which will cost me an extra $5k to uninstall and reinstall and the warranty is only 10 years so I’ll likely have to pay for replacing panels after that. With all these costs, I estimate my ROI won’t happen until year 13. Still might work for me as my goal was to reduce costs in my retirement but for most people, solar probably doesn’t make sense, even with the government subsidizing it via tax incentives.
Thanks for sharing!
2020 was the Covid year so prices were pretty low. It would be a bit higher these days, but with todays market... prices are fairly low. We actually dont have 70 + panels. I misspoke in the video. 68 panels total. Its close, but it adds up.
What kind of inverter system do you have that needs replacement? Can you share a bit more?
You're being sponsored by Exxon Mobil, Doh!
WHAT :D Naaaah I sponsor my own content, I pay my own payroll :D Seriously!
Nice video with good information. BUT the kwh charts at the end are bogus. While I'm sure they generated that much power, and it will offset all their usage, Most power companies Only pay you for power at the Wholesale rate they pay the generating source. Today, that is 3.96 CENTS per Kwh! In my area. So basically it's more like $5000 over 4 years, and your usage is covered. Still a good deal for ground mount only. The cost of roof mount will be lucky over 25 years to break even...
HEY! They are NOT Bogus to me :D I am sorry to hear that your utility pays so little :( IN our case we had 1 to 1 for 3 years and this lats year w ehave 19 cents for charges and we get 14/15 cents for credits. ( 4-5 cents are added to the charges at night or when solar does not produce enough.... You would be surprised how many places in USA still have a true 1 to 1 net metering.
😁..were you also giving your viewers a preview of your wedding dress?🤣....also we caught a glimpse of your tattoo on your shoulder, is the tattoo solar related by any chance?....and finally your neighbours dont seem to share your enthusiasm for solar electricity production, i could not see any panels on their roofs😃(silly neighbours)...thx for the vid, very informative as always👍
hahaha! MAYBE!
I have a few tattoos, mostly hidden. The Dress hmmm definitely an idea!
And we have done so many systems in this neighborhood, but year 2 next door neighbors did not ask. and we don't like pushing so its their loss.... :D ( Don't tell them I said that! )
I have several friends in Dallas who refuse to buy solar due to concern about hail damage. What can I share to convince them otherwise based on your 4 year experience?
most solar panels have been tested with hail... many even include the information on the size of hail they can deal with until damage occurs. Ours are 1/2" hail...
We have yet to have an issue, but if we do get a hail storm, our panels are covered just like our roof is so if there is any issues insurance covers it just like it would home :) I need to make a video on that as well!
We have yet to have an issue, but if we do get a hail storm, our panels are covered just like our roof is so if there is any issues insurance covers it just like it would home :) I need to make a video on that as well!
So wait.... if the front of the house is facing south, why can't you put the panels in the back yard and simply tilt them south towards front of house?
You can :) Thats the point, a lot of people didn't want them on the roof so we did a ground mount solution instead.
What if we dont have a garage? Where would we put the battery?
She doesn't have one! No Grid + No Sun = No Power!
It depends on the climate you're in. I would suggest outside if the temperatures are within the manufacturer's guidelines. But if not, some sort of enclosed space would be ideal. You don't want to spend money on a battery not to keep it protected from the outside element.
I personally do not have one myself. We have a pretty good buyback and only had 1 power outage in 4 years of living in the home. Its hard for me to justify this as a cost in my budget.
I personally do not have one myself. We have a pretty good buyback and only had 1 power outage in 4 years of living in the home. Its hard for me to justify this as a cost in my budget.
How tough are those ground panels? I wonder about damage from dogs and wild animals.
We have 3 dogs and we have not had any issues. We have customers who have cows and more livestock and they do try to get those fenced out to prevent cows from scratching their backs with the panels ... :D
It's like the one guy with 10 junk cars in the yard, neighbors must love these people?
I don't see why neighbours wouldn't love people with solar panels. It is nothing like junk.
@@woutmoerman711 He's probably an HOA Nazi. 🤣
LOL I thought the United States of America loved the freedom, yet I can't save money and produce power from solar panels? Should this not be my right and freedom as a US Citizen?
@@solartimeusa We lost our freedom when we let the democrats steal the 2020 election. Now they have convicted our leader on a made up crime. We are now officially a banana republic.
Hi, Your videos have been very informative and helpful. I live in Delaware and wish to go solar and whole house battery powered to reduce my use of the grid. I would surely check you out If you happen to be in this area.
Thank you sir, and if you need help with an installer let me know :) I can also help verify your quotes!
Snow blowing does not work that way cause you need to clean panels equally and water is the way to go. Not hot water, just usual water and then it needs time.
Who needs optimizers on the roof ?
We use only DC optimizer for areas which suffer from a shadow by a dormer.
You have a german sma inverter and that does not need optimizers usually.
Bifacial panels have no benefits on the ground - except you have a white underground or snow like in the mountains.
The have close to no gain in reality especially on the roof. Only those panels on the edge can perform a bit better, but then it requires microinverters.
The cheapest are the aluminium panels - here we pay 160$ for kWhp after we had paid 500$ about 2 years ago.
But since then China has shipped about 1,8 year demand for europe to our harbous and market collapsed.
Now the same will happen with LiFePo4 cells and batteries once the new tariffs in the US against China will be in place
15 kWh cells is about 1200$ and that will go down below 1000$ soon .
We have 30 kWp and get 30 000 kWh at the level of the US - canadian border but no one pays here 17 Cent for a kWh.
7 Cent is the current key figure, but we have already the biggest renewables production from off shore windmills to agro solar power. We replace each yeat 7 nuclear power plants with green energy to get rid of russian / american gas imports to become energy import independent. Luckily solar power panel and inverter prices are stalling therefore we do a lot of diy installation ,an awfull lot.
The cost of my power is only at .12/kwh. I’m not sure if it’s cost efficient for me to put money into solar panels. I’ll have to wait for government regulations to raise the price of my electricity to the .17/kwh for it to make sense. Well that’s if the price of solar panels don’t go up too.
Surprised to not see any bi-facial verticals (still watching the vid)
Yeah... when we put the system up in 2020, we used majority of the roof, and those are pretty heavy, but I plan to do more testing of those in the coming tests.
My house will be finish in July. Do u think it’ll be wise to get a one yr baseline with a new construction to see what my monthly electric usage will be and the. Think about buying solar next yr?
I’m in sugarland tx. 77498.
Hey Luke!
I have a few companies that I recommend in your area, so you can reach out to me, and I can even verify your quotes:)
As far as waiting a full year. I would not. I would wait 1-3 months to see the summer time ( which is good timing), then I can help determine what the forecasted usage will be for winter time ( whether home is gas or electric heating). So waiting a few months is better than a whole year, but do reach out to me via email :)
Can I plant you some trees, please? The US has enough deserts already.
green concrete big time, monograss farm
haha :) The neighborhood is fairly new, but we have at least 8 trees already planted, not including the bushes :D!
Jak zwykle śliczna 😀
Dziekuje! :)
You guys get 17 cents when selling to the grid!? Dammit, we get 8, 7 if the system goes online after July... and we buy from the grid at 35... So east+west+battery it is.
When we installed the system we had 1-1 we even got a check for $2,500 at one point from Green Mountain Energy under Oncor. Now its changed, we pay about 19 cents and get a credit for about 14. We might consider a battery in the next few years, but just yet, doesnt make much sense for the size of the house and usage we get..; /
Great stuff.
Question: If the solar panels are mounted on top of an *unattached* "Car Port", does that require "Rapid Shut Down" equipment?
No. Only occupied structures
They time that they are NOT required is when installed on a non enclosed structure, such as pergolas, carports, ground mounts. I guess its a play by inspectors... Europe does not have those same rapid shutdown requirements and most countries dont like microinverters or even optimizers unless needed and there are not any more fires there than here :D
@@solartimeusa Yeah, but you've never see a roof in Europe covered with combustible asphalt shingles either, have you? ;)
Interesting, but for me, don't care about the money. I want power all the time regardless of what the grid is or is not providing.
Power security is the ROI for me.
Yes, lots of people say they want batteries or generators to make sure the got power in case of outages. Especially with current bad weather.
That's why I would never buy or build where there is an HOA.
I know... :( They truly seem that sometimes they are just there to make life harder.
I know... :( They truly seem that sometimes they are just there to make life harder.
Będą kiedyś napisy po polsku pod filmem?
Pozdrawiam.
Powinna byc opcja w pasku na filmie w ustawieniach zeby zrobic tzw google translacje. Moze przez to ze filmik dopiero wleciał, jeszcze nie ma tej opcji. Daj znac prosze czy sie pojawi.
Martyna
@@solartimeusa
Ok. Potestuję za jakiś czas.
Obecnie jest tylko angielski wygenerowany automatycznie.
We have full black panels, looks much better.
Sure do :) I mostly sell those as well. For this home project we tested QCells.
👍❤️
Thank you for the support!
Hmm....I have 16 optimizers on my 16 panel ground mount. 🤨🤔
I mean it's not bad to have optimizers on it if you have shading, they probably improve the production.
Do you just have ground mount or roof as well?
If you have shading then optimizers are appropriate.
The problem is, you produced that much…but did you get paid for your excess production? Without a 1:1 buyback or even a buyback at the lesser wholesale rate, you are giving that energy away for free.
I have an 11.2kw system (36 panels) that covers just over 1/2 of our consumption. With a 1:1 buyback, which is no longer possible in my area, we used to get full credit and negative bills in the spring and fall and reduced bills in the summer. Now they cap the buyback to your total consumption for that billing cycle, and pay wholesale rates for excess. So if you produce 4000 kWh and consume 2000 your total credit will only be for 2000. Well that sounds like it adds up, but self consumption will likely not be the full 2000 kWh for the whole bill, they will pull from the grid at night. You will only self consume a portion of your production
With a system that sized, there is no way that house is consuming all that production or being credited for excess at full retail rates of .17 cents. We get .10/kwh wholesale, pay .15 from the grid.
If you are giving away power for free, you aren’t eating into your initial cost and thus not affecting your ROI timeline.
You are very lucky. In Oregon, our wise legislature passed a law that power companies "May" pay for excess solar production. This has allowed PGE to not pay us for our excess power produced. They take our excess power and supplement other power users with our generation excess. This may be anyone who cannot pay their bill or someone who is low income or anyone who convinces the power company to give them our energy. We have no choice in the matter.
I am saying this because your payback calculations do not apply in OREGON. We cannot get a payback faster than our normal usage. Therefore, it is not Practical for a homeowner to put in more panels than match is consumption in one year. And who profits if they do? The power companies. They cut any loss that they can avoid. Further they have just raised rates in Oregon 40% and they are asking for more as I write this. Lastly, in Oregon, Oregon rebates go only to the installer and not the homeowner. Sounds fine unless you are a DYI and then you do not qualify for any but the Federal incentives.
Oh my.... I am so sorry. This is good to hear though, and you are so right, best roi will be on a system that only supplies a portion of your usage, so daytime... Man I am sorry, they truly suck.
Are your rates really that high? Seems over blown on price for kWh
I did a net metering video last week and asked people to comment what their rates are, and there were so many people that pay over 30 cents per kWh. Texas is one of the states with lower rates but still lots of people pay upwards of 30 cents per kwh on the coasts areas.
Whats your rate ?
I am in Texas and pay 13 cents. We also have a 4kw Tesla energy system we have net metering but our power company will only carry over 50 kw extra per month so a small, cheaper system makes more sense than a large expensive system. Also, the telsa, q cells (all black with trim) look way better than your grid style.
You are located in an area within the continental US that arguably has the best solar potential. If it does not make sense there, solar will not make sense anywhere in the US. LOL
What would be interesting is for a solar system in Michigan or New York. Still a good vid nevertheless.
Thank you and for sure different areas have different sun exposure/ number of sunny days. But Its interesting how for example areas like New York or Boston has less sun, but also higher electricity rates. IN contract texas ha super cheap electricity.
Thank you for leaving a comment! I really appreciate it
SCE only gives us $.07
why not companies sell smaller solar cells individually so that one can fix each cell on all your walls in brick style and no one would notice, or a solar cell that is shaped for the roof , why not
The problem is connectrocs. You have to have those panels connected with connectors and properly sized to connect to inverter. Individual cells would mean more and more connectors, and those 1 cost more money and 2 take space as well.
60k is way too low. Utility doesn't buy at the same rate they sell. Upgrades, damages, failures and labor not included. Near ideal conditions in Dallas. A more reasonable figure is 20 year payback even with incentives.
I have to disagree. Solar prices now are even lower than back in 2020 when the world was dealing with the pandemic and prices were pretty low. This also depends on your location. SO In texas power is cheap but so is solar, some states on the coats will charge more for kwh price but also for kw installed. I think it really depends on the location.
Now, sure there will be companies that rip customers off...i truly hate that though...
You could just start and collecting items when there is deals. Thats what I've been doing
I would never live with an HOA.
I wish ...:D
Your system price would be in euros about 38.500€.
My 9,99 kwh system was 10.000€, and multiply that to your 27,2 kwh I would have paid about 27.000€.
We got the system 2023 fall and it was 11.500€ cheaper than yours 2020, so prices have gone down and it will continue to go down. Have to remember that I paid full price, we don't get any government help when buying a system, but we might get a 1.000€ tax credit for next years taxes.
Thank you so much for sharing! I also heard that Europe has much less fees and middlemen that get commissions here and there making solar more expensive in usa...
That's a lot of panels,
We kinda went cray cray. I do have to say Texan homes are pretty big and we have 2 AC units and 2.5 electric cars and a pool. So our usage is pretty high.
If I had the land I would never put solar panels on the roof.
YES!!!