The Gay Nightmare | Renegade Cut
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- čas přidán 23. 08. 2024
- A Nightmare on Elm Street 2 within the context of homosexuality in America during the 1980's. Support Renegade Cut Media through Patreon: / renegadecut
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I met Mark Patton at a small convention years back and heard the story directly from him. Spent hours talking to him because so few people approached his table. He's a lovely guy.
That’s cool
The Catholic Legion of Decency sounds like something my mom would use against me when I don't want to go to church
Sounds like a formidable foe for the Superfriends.
But what about the child molesting priests? Are they a part of the Legion of Decency?
C.L.O.Ds?
Sounds like the religious equivalent to the ‘Legion of Doom’ from DC Comics. Unintentionally ominous 😳
Gay Horror is not a genre I knew I needed in my life until now.
We got a genderfluid doll too
I would really recommend watching James Somerton's video "the monsters in the closet" about the history of queer representation in horror. He breaks down the link between the LGBTQI+ community and the horror genre
Funny... The Gay Nightmare is my official business title.
Freddy? Is that you?
You sell windows?
Even though his movies didn't feature much of it, Clive Barker's books were some of the best examples of how to do openly gay horror right. A fantastic example is "In the Hills The Cities" from Books of Blood. That Barker never adapted it into a film is a shame because it's just so good in every way.
Hes my fav
i loved Imagica, one of the best gay characters i've ever read was in there (i can't remember his name though). i would like to see it as a netflix series or something like that, but it's probably just too strange.
No! Even hell bound heart was messed up (don’t get me wrong I love 1 and 2 and have the whole series minus that pos “remake”) but and I enjoyed candyman but they always change a bunch
Finished reading Imajica recently, and it was stellar and also had strong LGBTQ+ themes 🏳️🌈
Jerrod Tibor Are you thinking of Pie ‘oh’ Pah, Gentle, or Tay and Clem? : ) great book!
Say it again "we shouldn't have to sift through subtext to find our gay icons" 👏👏👏👏
Rewatching this after remembering JK Rowling compared aids victims to werewolves in her books
Yes! Despite her disgusting transphobia, this metaphor for people with HIV as warewolves is beautiful!
I love how JK Rowling portraits the HIV as a condition that can seem scary, but when you get to know more about it, you realize it's not scary at all if dealt with proper care (just like Lupus, who turns out to be a great guy and ally to Harry)
JK Rowling is a great writer but she ended up going downward spirals to the point where she was transphobic, believing that her characters in Harry Potter are gay and all of her words bit by bit is now all over the Internet.
I kinda blamed Twitter for this to happen in the first place.
@@nreekm and also one of the other prominent werewolves gets his rocks off on infecting others, mainly children. Never mind the fact that with lupin, the belief is that he's "one of the good ones," who has the willpower to seclude himself from others to stop himself from harming them.
As a straight man, growing up when this movie came out, of course I didn't catch the signs in the movie...But looking at it now, in the mid eighties, it was a really gutsy move to make the gay man as a hero. Movie couldn't have worked otherwise. Interesting thought, the Catholic League of Decency...totally ironic as priests have been outed as the real perverts and degenerates. And then tried to cover it up. Very interesting video. Cheers. One of the best gay themed films I've ever seen is Blue is the Warmest Colour.
Wow i never knew about the subtext here and im a gay man. I need to go back and watch the movie again.
Faizrider
It's pretty blatantly obvious, especially nowadays.
But back when it was released, many made fun of it because it was so different from the first film.
Also look up The DJ Jazzy Heff and The Fresh Prince, Freddy Song, and Nightmare on my Street. I can't remember who did the second one, but it's funny.
I'm not gay but I never knew this either, and I seen this movie quite a lot.
Faizrider really? I’m a straight man and I noticed it lol
iih after catching jessie in a gay bar none the less
Tbh I always thought Freddy acted creepy sexual towards both men and women ( mostly girls tho) , so I think some of that subtext just passed by me.
Sorry but as a gay guy "the homosexuality in question" is so funny to me lol
X the clown why? if you don’t mind my asking
jack woodcock It’s just such a strangely formal way to say it? Like it makes it sound like a lawyer is saying it, that’s the best way I can describe it.
Yeah, it’s so elegant? Like “mom, I am here to tell you that I have found myself a homosexual, please accept me fully.”
Arquidesis Studio that’s how I’m gonna come out now
Same
A Nightmare On Gay Street. Wes Craven's Gay Nightmare.
Yo I saw this movie when I was in middle school and discovering my sexuality and Jesse was honestly SUCH AN ICON
The first sleepaway camp has a lot of lgbt overtones.
A true classic!
Angela's uncles were a couple, and they show them kissing at one part! :D Pretty cool for a film in '84
@@SerafiniAGaunt And while Angela was forced into being trans iirc, she does have feelings for a boy, so Angela was gay too.
Whether or not Angela had feelings for the guy was up to interpretation, but she was leering at Judy in the beginning of the film
I always thought that Freddy in the second nightmare was a metaphor for AIDS, something terrible living inside you, for a time unnoticed, and gradually taking over you.
To me Freddy was always Jesse's gay side trying to come out and him struggling with it. And him being afraid of Freddy was him actually being afraid of his gay side. And that's why he would fight him off cause he was scared of being gay and everyone finding out. I felt he had a secret crush on Grady and that's why when they're in the cafeteria and Grady is asking him that they should hang out or go watch a movie he yells at him as sort of to push him away. Since hes afraid of his feelings towards him. And the whole thing with Lisa is him trying make himself think hes straight.
@@fidelgarcia2224That's how I interpreted it as well
"You've got the body, and I've got the brain..."
I'll always remember that.
Sounds like a Pet Shop Boys song... let's make lots of money!
That over dramatic scream is what kills me 😂
I'm surprised their aren't more videos, about this film, discussing this very issue, with all the horror themed CZcams channels, that are popular.
I saw this in the theater, and I was too young for the subtext, but it was always a favorite because of how different it was.
The pool scene, and the bird explosion were particular favorites. I also remember friends joking about how often the main character's ass is shown, yet nearly nothing sexual, from the female lead.
I'll use the most CZcams friendly quote I can for this "Gosh darn, if you find someone who cares about you on this ball of floating rock during your short lifetime in space then just be thankful and try to appreciate them" or ya can just live a life of regret and questions.
Awesome video and (screw the Hayes code) keep on rockin in a free world!
My kinda gay horror? NBC Hannibal.
Arunima Tiwari
Yes, just yes.
yas
are you implying that hannibal is gay or is he actually gay or is there another character? im not familiar with the show but if you're talking about hannibal being gay do you not understand the whole "predatory gay" trope? thats not good representation by any means
Does your heart... ache... for Hannibal..?
@@BathroomCube he and the kind of main character will graham are implied to be in a relationship within the show, and the creator has confirmed it outside the show. aside from that, there is a lesbian couple who get married.
Excuse me, I'm just off to google that Parker Brothers game "PROBE"!
This movie had some of the most obvious subtext in cinema. Literally EVERYTHING felt ripe with sexuality, down to the tone set in every scene.
It was super, SUPER GAY. Anybody with eyes could pick up on that. I was 9 when I first watched it and even then I knew that this whole movie was super GAY! I remember it made my str8 friends super uncomfortable haha... Btw, I LOVED it! Awesome video, SUBSCRIBED!
That jesse and freddy scene made me weak in the knees I heard it was supposed to be gayer as Freddy was supposed to have his blade holding jesses mouth open but mark was uncomfortable probably because avoiding getting cut and to tone down the scene as it would seem too gay
this is why anoes is my favorite franchise. they were fun and creative but also had a message for outsiders or oppressed characters fighting against evil. most of the characters were like that. i think almost every anoes movie has subtext.
About The Shining:
"Certainly some half-baked conspiracy theorist has some choice words about that one."
Love the shade thrown at Rob Ager.
Yeah, it was the age of Reagan, the moral majority, and unchecked capitalism. I remember Wall Street, the movie. All anyone talked about was Gordon Gekko, like he was the hero. "Greed is good" speech. They totally missed the point. The corruption of greed. Just like Scarface. Same thing, people missed the point.
As far as "Nightmare" I thought it was ok. (The first one). I do remember the moral majority and PMRC trying to censor everything. I thought, bullshit..
Same thing in 2013 when wolf of wall street came out. I disliked the movie and hated the fraudster protagonist. Disturbing, because a lot of ppl I had much respect for held this belief.
Wow, in a weird way the production code gave the classic movies their particular, distinct flavour.
This happens with a lot of industries in different ways. Like for example how a lot of old NY skyscrapers taper back from the street in a series of setbacks (like the Empire State Building). This was due to a law regulating how much light had to get to the street. So now that's the shape we associate with classic skyscrapers.
Great job on this one! You know what I take away from this? There's still so much unexplored territory in film and we've still got a ways to go. Also, there's a lot to be said about not being so obvious in films. Too many people just assume that if a character isn't flamboyant or doesn't "sound feminine" or talk with a lisp, then they must be straight. In 2020, there doesn't have to be such gay stereotypes in film. The problem to me is despite all of these big studios talking about how progressive they are, they're still to scared to take a real risk and are clearly just pandering. Example: the "lesbian scene" in Star Wars: Rise of Skywalker was a complete joke.
Next you should talk about Top Gun. The name alone tells you there will be gay undertones and metaphors.
I get it "Top Gun"
Also it stars Tom Cruise, who has had gay rumors circling around him for years.
Freddy kinda confirmed for me that I was a gay man. That blade circling the mouth? The jaw grab? God.
I was 17 in 1985 and saw this, and the other 2 NOES in the theater. I noticed a few moments that were kind of gay, but I just thought it was my openly sexual mind. I didn't think it was the movie itself. It's still the worst of the first three films, but I bought the Blu-Ray and watch the trilogy occasionally regardless. I still think Freddie was more of a parody of himself than in any of the other films. So it's more funny than gay to me.
It’s not the fucking worst of the first 3,it’s the darkest and scariest.
@BIadesMan it's not better than Part 1, or Dream Warriors
The something is trying to get inside my body' line never fails to make me laugh
A Nightmare on Elm Street has surprisingly good sequels. 2, 3 and Wes Craven's New Nightmare are all enjoyable
I love NOES 2, but one thing that really bugs me when I watch it is the editing. It really seems like the scenes were pieced together out of order. There will be one scene where all of the characters are wearing their respective outfits, then it'll cut to another scene where they're all dressed differently, and then in the very next scene they'll all be back to wearing their previous outfits. Like the two scenes where Jesse and Grady are doing push ups. It's just the same reused footage, but also the scenes that take place at school involve all the characters wearing the same outfits on completely different days. It's a nitpick, I know, but it's very annoying for me. I've always kind of wanted to splice together a fan edit where these glaring wardrobe changes don't make the scenes look like they were edited together out of order, but I've never gotten around to it. I really do love the movie though, and all the gay subtext really does make it more interesting.
This video...informative and funny. “Awkward yet adorable.” For someone who is actually writing what you could call an LGBTQ horror film I guess, thank you Leon. Great work as always.
This is easily one of my favourite pieces of content I’ve seen in a while
Wow. You went all the way. Great job! I'm going to share this video.
great video, as always!
^What he said.
RC is kind of amazing!
Also Mark Patten become the first Male scream queen
Even with all of it's problems, cinematically speaking, this was always my favorite Nightmare as a kid and today. Fred's got the best make up and it really is scary. The last one before Freddy became "campy". Also has some of the best lines of the series. I had no idea until a few years ago of all the gay subtext. And even though I am confidently hetero, this just made the movie even better and perhaps the deepest and most meaningful of the franchise.
my horror loving bi ass would be sitting in theatres every week!!!
Daniela Alejandra
Horror Loving Bi, should be a CZcams channel.
Id patron it
@@696190 Same tho. Even if I am a horror fearing bi.
CorbCorbin omg I want that
Daniela Alejandra lol
It took me a few years and a few re-watching to realize that it is actually a gay horror film and the actors all said the same thing that it had a lot of gay themes
What a refreshing movie review and philosophic absorption. Really hope to see more from you and really glad to see you're clearly doing what you love brohan. keep it up and I definitely look forwards to more videos from you! Great topic points and really very original in a dreary sea of bland similar pantomiming channels. best of luck dude.
I've always wondered why the younger brother (played by one of the Corey's) had a poster of Rob Lowe all sexy in his bedroom in the movie Lost Boys.
I've watched that film every Halloween since I was 12, and I think I was about 17 when I began realising it's all one great big rather cheesy metaphor for teenage sexuality. There is zero chemistry between the main character and his supposed love interest; instead, the main character spends a good deal of time having intense stare-offs with a young, leather jacketed Kiefer Sutherland. Of course, it's Schumacher, so I have no doubt it was all completely intentional.
Actually, the reason for that has nothing to do with homosexuality. :-( Jason Patric and Rob Lowe were related somehow - half brothers or something. Sorry I can't be bothered to look it up right now, but trust me: it was just an Easter egg referencing a family member. :-/
"Akward but adorable dance moves" is an understatement! Fookin' hilarious m8 😂...
I had no idea when I first watched the movie as kid. The themes went way over my head. When I got the whole movie collection on dvd, I re watched all of them and I immediately started to notice things. Then when I watched the documentary reference in this it confirmed it. Will have to watch
This again in near future
You are a true hero! I have been glued to your channel for hours, thank you for all of your tediously crafty efforts!!
great video. i'm gay and always knew jessi was gay when i was little. but at the time i thought it was intentional. i never bought the whole "the director and writer didn't know"
Wow, the views on this have gone up a lot recently, well deserved!! Fantastic video :)
Hmmm this makes me think of the Rocky Horror Picture Show and how Frank was the villain when, really, he helped Brad and Janet discover their sexuality
I always thought Frank was the hero of the movie for that reason!
all this revelation yet we can't get a alternate costume color change for freddy and the gang in dead by daylight
It’s hilarious how sinister something can sound when you add “Legion of” in it.
I remember watching this and thinking Jessi’s friend was hot.
I had no idea "Jessie" was really gay...wow
Damn!! Just recently seeing this video and completely in awe of its thoroughness,eloquence, and on point review😮😮
You just got yourself a new subscriber
I never noticed this and I didn't watch this that long ago.. I always found Jesse to be really cute, It's really cool that there's representation in this film that I never realised.
Haha I couldn't stop laughing when Leon said homosexual in question, it was so unexpectedly formal lol, great video as usual.
i think i was in 7th grade and saw this in the theater, I thought jessie was so hot back then. I didnt realize all the gay subtext back then since I was so young, but I knew I loved this movie more than the rest of the the Nightmares for some reason.
Saw this movie as a kid and the gay subtext went over my head. When I saw it again in my 20’s, it was quite obvious to me. There was no mistaking the S&M scene.
I been saying this for YEARS!! THANK you.
Ngl, I just found your channel and all your videos are really good. I had to hold myself to not binge watch all of them at 2 AM
I probably own my graduation to "Monsters in the Closet". It's a really good book and without it I would have been lost writing my Bachelor thesis
Just finding your channel. Nice work on this one, man. Subbed.
Okay, so NoE2 has always been my favorite, but in the past it was just because of the camp nature (and the scene where the bird bursts into flames...) Now I know that my young, gay heart must have felt some sort of connection to it.
I can’t believe you didn’t address the prominent Kajagoogoo poster.
It's interesting how the lead actor was not treated well, claimed to have been exploited and discard by the Hollywood machine after this movie. I wonder if Renegade Cut will review the documentary "Scream, Queen! My Nightmare on Elm Street" about how the movie effected Mark Patton's life and career.
Conversation therapy! Haahaha, when I came out my aunt said she will pray for me! Regards from Europe
makes sense why I grew up appreciating the second film as much as I do
Good stuff, Leon. Been following your work for a while now (since the TGWTG days) and it only continues to get better and better
A Touch of Mink released in 1962 has a homosexual reference played as a running gag and hints at Rock Hudson being gay before it was known after his death.
Benschoff was a professor of mine. He found gay subtext in all kinds of places in all kinds of films. He was my favorite film professor but there wasn't any contenders in the state school.
I was a little kid when this came out. Now I have to go watch it again. Love 80s movies !
Fright Night and Fright Night Part 2 (1985 and 1988) have many pro-gay overtones. Not only for Amanda Bearse (Who was a lesbian) but also Jerry Dandridge's relationship with Billy Cole (Jerry obviously being Bi), Evil Ed's actor was gay and believes the character was gay. And Peter Vincent, played by Roddy McDowall (who was gay) was partly modeled after Vincent Price (confirmed as bisexual by his daughter). Peter Vincent was likely not straight. In Fright Night Part 2 not only was Peter Vincent back but Ritchie was played by a gay man and implied to not be straight, and Belle was a Trans vampire.
Well, this all flew over my head at 14, but it's pretty obvious now.
Brilliant review! As always.
what an incredible video essay. one of my absolute favorite horror films, and a really refreshing watch in the slasher/supernatural genre.
Very interesting, thank you. I would also add Christine (1983) to the list of 80's horror movies with lots of gay innuendo. It's John Carpenter's adaptation of a Stephen King story. Come to think about it, Stand by me (1986) was also full of gay innuendo, and from what I know, King's original story was even more explicit than it's screen adaptation.
You, the singular creator of this show, knocked this out of the park. Such an incredibly insightful analysis of the film and the culture of hollywood.
The very first NIGHTMARE movie I saw when I was like eight years old, although I often ran from the room and when I came back, it was always at the most violent parts, so I never really got the gay subtext until I saw it later in High School......sadly, that's all people really talk about, but it's honestly the only other time Freddy was truly "Scary" outside the first film and works great as an "Exorcist-esque" kind of nightmare-possession flick (this is also where we got the classic line, "You're ALL MY CHILDREN NOW!!"). It's still an underrated horror flick today, considering other "Campy Horror" films out there like ROCKY HORROR and the like.
van8ryan
The pool scene, is my favorite part. I saw the first movie when I was 7 or 8, and this a year or two later. It was funny and creepy, but I was too young, to get the subtext.
Though I remember a friend's babysitter joking, with a friend, about how gay it was.
wow this video is really well made and researched! Thank you
"Why couldn't Nightmare on Elmstreet 2 be an outwardly gay film...?" Dude it was hella gay, I remember being a lil kid, like 10 or something when I first saw this (not in 1980, in 1990ish) and being like "whoa this is real gay".
no wonder why i was so terrified of freddy as a kid.
Hell yeah! That makes me love my already favorite horror franchise even more! I remember when I was a kid, around 9 to 14 or something, I always told myself shit like "I really don't have anything against gay people, I just don't want to be it, it will just make things harder" (if you know what mean...harder...yeah I'll just stop lol). That 100% stemmed from society, including media, constantly telling you between the lines, that being gay is "not normal" and stupid things like that. Being gay always seemed more like a "gimmick" if that makes any sense. Now as an openly, no fucks giving, gay man I couldn't be happier! I wish I could just tell my 10 year old me that it's okay to be who you are! I don't really know where I am going with this comment tbh but man, being in the closet, questioning your sexuality in a world where many people really just want you to be "normal" (god, I hate that word) is terrifying and seeing a decades old film bringing that up, even if it's just subtext, is awesome!
Yo when you gonna talk about Sleep Away Camp in this context?
Great analysis. Upon release, in my 30's, I saw it all & found it hilarious. In later decades, I did feel concern for those young gay teens who were watching back then.
Can't wait to see Scream, Queen! The documentary that follows Mark Patton confronting the makers of the film . Getting them to admit that they intended it to be that gay.
Gay or not, this movie is awesome! Probably my favorite and definitely the one I've seen most in the franchise.
This one of my favorite freddy movies (#3 on my list) and I think the way its vaguely hinted at even in subtext is effective like the deeper aspects of freddy in the original movie.
Nightmare 2 is the only Freddy movie where he's trying to take over someones body. If you watched this and did not catch on to the homosexual context you're dense lol
Always very interesting these video essays of yours.
Okay but the real gay nightmare is when Facebook recommends your Grindr hookup...
I never realised about the sub text. Interesting explanation though!
What are the European and independent movies you mention at the end? please give us the titles! I want to watch them!
I'm a big fan of horror and have said for years that this is the gayest movie ever, but that was mostly in homophobic/ recovering-Catholic days. Today I try to be an ally and advocate. Watching this video was like moving a couch I hadn't clean behind in years, exposing some dirty homophobia I've yet to clean up. Thank you 😊 ❤️!
When I was very young, late 70s, early 80s, I remember reading the movie reviews in the Catholic Weekly. Any movie that was rated R = C for Condemned, automatically.
Good video . One of the best horror series of all time . I still love NOES to this day . Thanks for this .
this was very insightful i appreciate your input.
I saw this movie at like 13, and always assumed all of it was unintentional.
I thought that we were going to talk about Freddy being bisexual.
fascinating and well made video, thank you!
Loved this video, thank you for making this! Can you make a video analysis of Sleepaway Camp and it’s attitudes toward lgbtia+ people?