The Worst Cards to Ever be Banned in Magic: the Gathering | MTG

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  • čas přidán 26. 06. 2024
  • Most often cards are banned in Magic: the Gathering because they are too good, but this isn't always the case. Over the years some downright awful cards have ended up banned, so today we're going to count down the worst cards that, for one reason or another, have found themselves on the MTG ban list!
    Today's video is brought to you by Card Kingdom. You can pick up some MTG cards (and help support the show) at www.cardkingdom.com/mtggoldfish
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Komentáře • 650

  • @MTGGoldfish
    @MTGGoldfish  Před rokem +12

    Enter to win a free Chandra Nalaar statue from Gatherer's Tavern here! www.mtggoldfish.com/articles/gatherers-tavern-liliana-vess-statue-review-chandra-nalaar-statue-giveaway

    • @daftwulli6145
      @daftwulli6145 Před rokem

      I get that creatures from back then seem a joke today, but at it´s time juggernaut and kird ape where killer in aggro decks and juggernaut was also killer in early tron decks. Think about it what can do against a 2/3 on turn 1 back then ? And yes with a taiga that was a 2/3 turn 1. JUggernaut could be out as early as turn 2 in some decks (mishras factory + a land or 2 swamps and a dark ritual are just 2 examples). What can you do against that in old school. There is bolt and swords, that is it. Even terror turn 2 won´t help since it is artifact. You have to also take into account that removal came at a premium back then there where not that many good removal spells. So getting removal out of your deck so you won´t have any removal later when my big threat comes out by playing something you had to answer fast was leggit back then. As for tron, by turn 3 they could have enough mana to play 2 juggernauts with a killer starthand. Or a juggernaut and some other huge threat for 6 mana.

    • @jacksonteller3973
      @jacksonteller3973 Před rokem

      honestly i think #8 was a mistake, banning those cards only brought them more attention and hardly anyone was playing them anyways, I don't think they were racist so much as just not aging that well.

  • @TransformersBoss
    @TransformersBoss Před rokem +614

    Pronouncing “Rogue Refiner” like “Whirler Virtuoso” is one of my favorite Seth mispronunciations to date

    • @MTGGoldfish
      @MTGGoldfish  Před rokem +157

      Lol...

    • @0Whitelottus0
      @0Whitelottus0 Před rokem +17

      Wouldn’t have it another way

    • @davidsnedden4796
      @davidsnedden4796 Před rokem +14

      Whirler virtuoso was annoying af though, to be fair

    • @harkingmadwing5112
      @harkingmadwing5112 Před rokem +13

      Content creators put mistakes like that in on purpose because they create a whole lot of comments
      I hate the algorithm

    • @0Whitelottus0
      @0Whitelottus0 Před rokem +8

      @@harkingmadwing5112 That actually makes sense, still Seth is so charismatic that I don’t really care if he does it on purpose

  • @bigmclargehuge4289
    @bigmclargehuge4289 Před rokem +523

    one issue you kind of missed with Ivory Tower and especially Zuran Orb is that in the early days of tournament magic if a game went to time it was decided by who had a higher life total. These cards made stalling a valid strategy back then.

    • @MTGGoldfish
      @MTGGoldfish  Před rokem +237

      Ohh, I didn't realize that! Good to know.

    • @SmartAlec1
      @SmartAlec1 Před rokem +19

      I think they should bring back that rule since a lot of end states don’t seem very fair, plus it could make lifegain more valuable. But then again it does encourage board stalls

    • @lfsg92
      @lfsg92 Před rokem +6

      @@SmartAlec1 agree, it would also discourage slowplaying when you are behind

    • @coffinsonio
      @coffinsonio Před rokem +61

      @@SmartAlec1 Yu-Gi-Oh! currently has this rule, and lemme tell you- it's horrible for the health of the game, and does not at all represent the actual winner of the match. The draw rule is a bit lame, but it's more balanced.

    • @SmartAlec1
      @SmartAlec1 Před rokem

      @@coffinsonio it’s tough to balance tbh

  • @CullingCrimson.
    @CullingCrimson. Před rokem +132

    Countertop was the best deck in legacy by a large margin when top was banned. Top is an extremely powerful card with Counterbalance.

    • @raznaak
      @raznaak Před rokem +18

      I play Goblins. I have only played Goblins in Legacy since 2012.
      I LOVED the Miracles Legacy years, as we had a 80%+ winrate against Miracles, unlike literally all other decks.
      Cavern of Souls -> Goblin Lackey. Go.
      Oh damn, you Swords to Plowshares my 1/1 Lackey? I play another Lackey and an Aether Vial turn 2. Go.
      Oh, you Terminus my three Gobbos? I Warchief into Matron for a Ringleader and reload my hand, attack you for 6. Go.
      You Terminus AGAIN? Oh well, I Matron into Ringleader (shuffling my library as a side, putting back my Goblins from the bottom into the rest of the deck), draw three, I attack you for 2, go.
      I had an opponent HARDCAST a *FIFTH* Terminus with a Snapcaster to survive (after using two Swords to Plowshares ON RINGLEADERS, because they couldn't keep up). They still died on my turn, because I drew Warchief and had a Mogg War Marshall and a Piledriver in hand...
      Ahhhh, good memories.

    • @SnackCakes
      @SnackCakes Před rokem +11

      Yeah he undersold how broken that card is, but he's right that it was likely banned because of everyone going to time each round.

    • @sylverfyre
      @sylverfyre Před 10 měsíci +4

      Countertop also had a history of winning BO3 matches with 1 win, 0 losses, and 1 draw.

  • @2rare2die26
    @2rare2die26 Před rokem +214

    I'm absolutely shocked you have Sensei's Divining Top on this list. I get that it takes a while to properly play, but idfk about it being "one of the worst"

    • @DemonBlanka
      @DemonBlanka Před rokem +31

      also a teensy tiny, itty bitty exaggeration to say that each top resolution takes 3 minutes to resolve.
      or that anybody would activate top after already arranging the top cards without the intention to draw one of those cards out.

    • @sluttyMapleSyrup
      @sluttyMapleSyrup Před rokem +2

      ​@@DemonBlanka Right? I see that and I want it for my Bridge deck because anything that lets a creature tribal deck stack itself for Cascade effects sounds great.

    • @kyleolson8977
      @kyleolson8977 Před rokem +33

      Additionally, it's odd to call Top a fair card since it was never played fair, nor did players have to try hard to not play fair. Top is only a "fair" card if there's nothing that interacts with it. Even ignoring fetchlands, there are plenty of ways to shuffle/mill/scry/care about the top of your library. Top has a low cost which makes it easy to deploy and rearrange. It's also free to trade it in.
      Top may have been banned for being slow, but it wasn't popular because it was slow.

    • @2rare2die26
      @2rare2die26 Před rokem +5

      Back in the day, me and a buddy bought some Kamigawa precon decks from a store and played against each other for a pack of Avacyn (when Avacyn was new, got a good deal on the sealed decks).
      Long story short, his deck had Sensei's Diving Top in it. His pack for winning had a Griselbrand too.
      Top is and will always be good in every format. Or I have PTSD. Or both.

    • @catrinaisahuman820
      @catrinaisahuman820 Před rokem +9

      im guessing the reasoning for including it is because it wasnt banned for being too good, just cause it wastes time

  • @SirToastyToes
    @SirToastyToes Před rokem +50

    I love how Orcish Oriflame was banned just because they printed it wrong, and then made the incorrect version a real card with Goblin Oriflame in Modern Horizons

    • @marcellachine5718
      @marcellachine5718 Před rokem +2

      It was reprinted in 4th I think revised at 3r instead of 1r I believe.

  • @Rorschachqp
    @Rorschachqp Před rokem +37

    Running 4 Ivory Tower was insane. Especially when you ran UW control with a Copy Artifact. Imagine you have 4x Moat, 4x The Abyss, 12 spell counters, 4x Swords and Wrath. Then 4x Millstone. Nothing’s coming through. Then the fact that you’re running Timetwister, Wheel Of Fortune (dual lands and Mox Ruby to generate red) Library Of Alexandria, Ancestral Recall. You’ll stay in the 6-8 cards in hand, gain an unkillable amount of life and casually mill your opponent. Or you kill your opponent via Serra Angel/Mahamoti Djinn if you’re playing B Weissman’s The Deck.

    • @kingfuzzy2
      @kingfuzzy2 Před rokem +4

      The tinker time vault deck in extended and old school still have pretty much the same broken deck list and game plan as that

  • @SpockrulesBJJ
    @SpockrulesBJJ Před rokem +15

    As an Arab, I don't find the Jihad card offensive. Wizards was making no moral judgment on Jihad. Historically religious or political ferver has been a boon to troop morale. Even French republicanism had a fanatical morale boosting effect on the revolutionary armies.
    The Middle Eastern cataphracts depicted in the picture are not ugly demented caricatures. They are depicted as well equipped soldiers fighting a medieval battle with zeal.
    As someone who always saw people who look like my dad as bloodthirsty terrorists or backwards inept nameless bad guys, I liked the art and the card. It depicted a sort of nobility western media often denies people of MENA descent.

    • @Purple_Motion
      @Purple_Motion Před rokem

      No, white woke Seattle SJWs definitely understand better than all minorities what's good for them to protect them and keep everyone safe from being offended. Thank goodness we can censor and block everything that may even provoke a fair and intellectual discussion about different cultures.

    • @madjoe8622
      @madjoe8622 Před rokem +4

      They become crazy woke. Not much logic to it. I loved playing with Army of Allah and Crusade back in the day. Jihad was already a bit too expensive for me...

    • @rossmcbeath4997
      @rossmcbeath4997 Před 5 dny

      The people who get offended at everything have outsize power right now. The cost of being accused of being insensitive has been dialed up, and the benefit of being offended constantly, especially if you know postmodernist lingo, opens doors for people.

  • @David31679
    @David31679 Před rokem +50

    As someone who used to play magic before ivory tower was restricted it was unbeatable with 3 or 4 out in a control deck.

    • @butHomeisNowhere___
      @butHomeisNowhere___ Před rokem +3

      I remember playing against control decks back then and being INFURIATED. Kismet+Stasis.... 😡😡😡

  • @maximuscesar
    @maximuscesar Před rokem +46

    Once in a legacy tournament I was in, a Miracles mirror ended up a 0-0 tie after 50 minutes. Probably this was actually very common.

    • @AaronRotenberg
      @AaronRotenberg Před rokem +11

      Magic as Richard Garfield intended

    • @Trazaeth
      @Trazaeth Před rokem +4

      Being an avid miracles player during that time, a lot of draws were due to it being considered a "Top Deck" and so a lot of players would assume it was easy to pilot and show up first time with it and not have enough reps in. However, I do know of one player that intentionally offered a draw to his opponent 1st round when he won. His opponent preferred that so the opponent accepted. He then spent the next few hours slaughtering miracles players because he had a near 90% miracles matchup.

  • @CeilingNinja
    @CeilingNinja Před rokem +132

    Zuran Orb is a beast in a landfall deck now. Especially with Titania on the board.

    • @ManaDrain315
      @ManaDrain315 Před rokem +40

      Zuran Orb was broken in standard Balance decks.

    • @MTGGoldfish
      @MTGGoldfish  Před rokem +32

      Yeah, Titania + Zuran Orb is sweet! I made a Modern deck around it at one point. It was pretty hilarious.

    • @shayneweyker
      @shayneweyker Před rokem

      @@ManaDrain315 And not bad in Necro.

    • @adammorin2955
      @adammorin2955 Před rokem +4

      Zuran orb goes infinite in so many combos nowadays

    • @jessoftherocks
      @jessoftherocks Před rokem

      I run orb with flagstones and ghostquarter and brought back, steppe lynx love it

  • @infernalgoblin4508
    @infernalgoblin4508 Před rokem +54

    top was banned in legacy for power level. its ability to soft lock the opponents plus mentor loops got it banned. thats why it took so much longer than the other formats

    • @gabrielstafford5174
      @gabrielstafford5174 Před rokem +11

      It also made miracles far too powerful.

    • @adammorin2955
      @adammorin2955 Před rokem

      Technically top is classified as both too powerful and not. On paper it looks pretty weak but in use its busted.

    • @SmartAlec1
      @SmartAlec1 Před rokem

      It was the top of the format

  • @umpatte0
    @umpatte0 Před rokem +17

    Another critically important detail about Zuran Orb is that Armageddon and Balance were both staples of a lot of white decks. Casting Armageddon and sacking all your lands before it resolves to gain 8+ life was fantastic. Also, more importantly, casting balance and saccing all your land in response to it gave you the life gain but also forced the opponent to sac all their lands to equalize the number. When you have no creatures in play, this devastated an opponent. Follow it up with a land tax, and you dominate the opponent with a strong control strategy. Armageddon, Wrath of God, Zuran Orb, Balance, Swords to Plowshares, Disenchant. Good times.

    • @kingfuzzy2
      @kingfuzzy2 Před rokem

      Unfortunately artifacts have gotten better so balance has fallen out of favour in formats that can play them except cube.

    • @jonathanarlt9578
      @jonathanarlt9578 Před 7 měsíci +1

      Oh and let's not forget the mandatory copy of Feldon's Cane (which I think was restricted?) so when you are almost decked out, the game just continues. I have fond memories I'm playing my green white Armageddon deck against my best friend's black white Armageddon dick when we were kids until literally the sun came up and getting maybe two or three games in

  • @ghostbeardz2000
    @ghostbeardz2000 Před rokem +48

    Oh my God, that was such a beautifully perfect monologue for Sensei's Divining Top. I couldn't stop laughing. Thanks so much for creating this SaffronOlive.

    • @MTGGoldfish
      @MTGGoldfish  Před rokem +9

      Ha, glad you like it. That was my favorite part of the video too.

    • @ecoKady
      @ecoKady Před rokem

      Agreed. Save this for Top Goldfish 2023 retrospective.

    • @chrisschweitzer1161
      @chrisschweitzer1161 Před rokem

      @@MTGGoldfish Hey. I don't have red hair.

  • @randallross420
    @randallross420 Před rokem +10

    Similar to the Rukh Egg issue, when Visions was new, we would play Viashino Sandstalker as printed and return it to our hand at the end of every turn regardless of where it was.

  • @NeoN-PeoN
    @NeoN-PeoN Před rokem +6

    For Juggernaut and the sword (or any artifact, really) you have to remember that artifact decks were ridiculously strong when compared to decks of color. You can get six mana from two Towers, and it didn't have to do 20. It just had to do what was left of your opponent's life.

  • @Lizardguy3
    @Lizardguy3 Před rokem +3

    8:20 Having Mark Rosewater spend an entire podcast explaining that energy ISN'T a parasitic mechanic, and then talking down to people who use that kinda language is some of my favorite ironic magic content ever
    (drive to work episode 856)

  • @calicogaming6063
    @calicogaming6063 Před měsícem +4

    The power 9 was banned from commander not because they were powerful cards but because they were expensive and the commander committee didn't want to set the president that commander was an expensive to play format requiring the P9.

  • @engelostermann7203
    @engelostermann7203 Před rokem +7

    Ivory Tower and Zuran Orb were used in combo and control decks. Both were used with terrifying efficiency in Necro Deck and Thawing Glacier Control.
    I love Thawing Glacier.

    • @kingfuzzy2
      @kingfuzzy2 Před rokem

      Me too thanks such a broken and balanced card.

  • @gagewoodcock2479
    @gagewoodcock2479 Před rokem +8

    Kird Ape next to Channel on the ban list is kind of comical. 😂

    • @madjoe8622
      @madjoe8622 Před rokem +1

      Kird ape was really not a joke in the 90s.

  • @DeadlyGrim
    @DeadlyGrim Před rokem +3

    The combo with Ivory Tower was also having Library of Alexandria.
    It's worth mentioning that in original MTG rules, the first player would also draw on their first turn. So, play would look like:
    1) Go first and draw to 8 cards
    2) Play Library of Alexandria, tap for mana, and play Ivory Tower
    3) On my next turn, I untap, tap Library to go to 8 cards, gain 4 life from Ivory Tower, then draw to 9
    4) Play two cards to bring me back down to 7 cards
    5) Repeat for every remaining turn
    Even a modern aggro player is going to have difficulty beating a control player who is gaining 4 life and drawing 2 cards per turn from their second turn (even if the control player is behind a mana on the curve).
    Sometimes they brought in Library of Leng into it as well, usually with other draw engines, in order to gain an increasing amount of life each turn.
    EDIT: And, of course, the combo was only two cards and could fit in any deck. So, there's nothing preventing everyone from picking it up. When both players best creatures was Serra Angel or Shivan Dragon, it was extremely hard for either player to win before decking out. Which is probably why WotC talked about Ivory Tower causing time issues during tournaments.

    • @madjoe8622
      @madjoe8622 Před rokem +1

      I remember when you could draw a card when playing first. LoA was really powerful (still is but it was even more at that time).

  • @a_speeder1728
    @a_speeder1728 Před rokem +5

    Another thing to note with Zuran Orb is that it was in standard at the same time as Necropotence, so being able to gain life for drawing cards and having a use for the lands you drew was some really good synergy

  • @IQuarent
    @IQuarent Před rokem +8

    Sword of the Ages is currently on the reserved list and more expensive monetarily than even the most powerful of the Swords of X and Y, so I think it got the last laugh

    • @Rootsradical808
      @Rootsradical808 Před rokem +1

      Got mine years and years ago because it looked interesting and on the reserved list and alot cheaper at the time

  • @46three
    @46three Před rokem +6

    Funny thing about Beacon of Immortality is that it's now become an okay combo w/ Tainted Remedy, making it potentially a one-shot kill and immediately ending a game rather than drawing it out.

    • @kingfuzzy2
      @kingfuzzy2 Před rokem +2

      I've lost to that combo turn 2 and it was hilarious.

  • @EnemyToad
    @EnemyToad Před rokem +34

    Seth: Divine Intervention literally can’t win a game
    Opalesence: am I a joke to you?

    • @jarzz3601
      @jarzz3601 Před rokem +6

      yes

    • @Nalianna
      @Nalianna Před rokem +4

      Ah yes, the ol' turn 4, replenish into parallax tide, parralax wave, attunement, remove all your blockers and lands, done. untap, kill you.

  • @cdominguez95
    @cdominguez95 Před rokem +12

    Where's Shahrazad?

  • @jjjj8644
    @jjjj8644 Před rokem +6

    Another reason why Beacon was a useless ban is that commander damage is a thing in Commander

    • @colgatelampinen2501
      @colgatelampinen2501 Před rokem +1

      Sure but it is not particularly hard to build deck so that you'll never take commander damage

    • @franslair2199
      @franslair2199 Před měsícem

      A lot of commanders never attack though

  • @Hrafnskald
    @Hrafnskald Před rokem +2

    What you missed about 90s banned cards is that power level of creatures has increased greatly since the 90s. Compared to the cards they were going up against, Kird Ape was strong, because the vast majority of creatures then had power less than or equal to casting cost. With Ivory Tower, issue was not one Ivory Tower, but 4, plus a Library of Leng. Draw cards, don't play anything, gain an ever increasing life amount each turn. 3 life a turn is weak, but 12 on one turn, 16 on the next, and so on could quickly make a player unkillable. Every card you drew and didn't play meant +4 life per turn.

  • @SmartAlec1
    @SmartAlec1 Před rokem +28

    I get banning for time purposes isn't the same as power level, but Top was a key piece to the most powerful legacy deck for years. That shouldn't be here.

  • @SilverAlex92
    @SilverAlex92 Před rokem +34

    This was very interesting

    • @MTGGoldfish
      @MTGGoldfish  Před rokem +10

      Ha, yeah. Unfortunately Sword of the Ages is on the Reserved List so it's like $90, otherwise I would totally build a Commander deck around it.

    • @jollyjoker6340
      @jollyjoker6340 Před rokem

      Zorbalance was pretty powerful even though Balance was restricted before Zuran Orb was even printed

    • @Rootsradical808
      @Rootsradical808 Před rokem

      Sword of ages is interesting, bought mine years and years ago while looking for reserved list cards to buy and cheap at the time.

    • @madjoe8622
      @madjoe8622 Před rokem

      Zuran orb was great in Necropotance deck.

    • @nekrataali
      @nekrataali Před rokem

      ​@@jollyjoker6340 Ahhhh the memories of Zuran Orb -> float 4 mana -> Balance -> Tormod's Crypt -> Planar Birth

  • @ColtonSpears
    @ColtonSpears Před rokem +13

    I'm not a fan of "Activate only once each turn" affects but I'd love to see a Senseis Divining Top reprint with this affect. I'd even be happy with an "Activate only as a sorcery" version.

    • @domri4203
      @domri4203 Před 6 měsíci

      Senseis defining dradle

  • @tonythepokemonguy751
    @tonythepokemonguy751 Před rokem +9

    The easiest way to beat ivory tower is too attack with 3 Wooly spiders instead of 2

    • @madjoe8622
      @madjoe8622 Před rokem

      Black vise was doing the job too, until the restricted it.

  • @vegatablesoup6409
    @vegatablesoup6409 Před rokem +3

    To be fair attune with aether was a crazy enabler for energy decks, allowing them to play whatever colors they wanted while not slowing down tempo because the energy could be used for something

  • @CosmicCorsair
    @CosmicCorsair Před rokem

    This was pretty interesting! Very surprised by alot of the picks. Well done!

  • @p1k4nurxp13sr
    @p1k4nurxp13sr Před rokem +2

    Disagree hard with the notion that Top is a weaker card on the banlists. It’s way too good with fetches, and miracles/counterbalance become oppressive with it

  • @Varler_
    @Varler_ Před rokem +1

    That was interesting! These kind of videos are always cool.

  • @miguelfreitas5343
    @miguelfreitas5343 Před rokem +11

    Fun fact, i was playing a game of commander the other day against Oloro (the giant that gains life) and he killed me with Beacon of Immortality and Sanguine Bond :p extremely OP, should be banned again 😉

  • @aelinstue9431
    @aelinstue9431 Před rokem +1

    “Rook” egg got banned because some people pronounced it “Ruk” is the real reason. Too many games ended in arguing by over the ridiculous pronunciation.

  • @pyr666
    @pyr666 Před rokem +5

    sword of ages makes a lot more sense when you remember damage used the stack. attack, damage on the stack, sword of ages your board at their face.

    • @WhiteOwlet
      @WhiteOwlet Před rokem +2

      Came here to say this. 6 mana was a bit steep, but it wasn't "the worst card ever by a wide margin".

    • @ronaldwayne7092
      @ronaldwayne7092 Před rokem +1

      Sword of the Ages actually predated damage on the stack. If your creatures were around to deal damage, the only things you could play at that point were damage prevention/redirection and interrupts.

    • @Trip_Fontaine
      @Trip_Fontaine Před rokem +1

      Damage did not use the stack when Sword of Ages was Restricted though. That started with 6th edition rules in 1999. 10th edition rules in 2007 changed it back to how it was in the very old days (sort of).

  • @horstmotzle6458
    @horstmotzle6458 Před rokem +8

    Back in 1995/1996 Standard Zuran Orb was good in Erniegeddon Decks: Tap all Lands for mana, sac to zuran orb an play Armageddon. Also Ivory Tower was huge in combination with necropotence: More life equals more cards. I loved this combo😅

    • @mariopineda9932
      @mariopineda9932 Před rokem +1

      Erhnageddon didn't play Zuran Orb. The strategy there was:
      1) Play Erhnam Djinn, what was considered a very busted creature at the time. A 4/5 for four mana without evasion, imagine that. Unstoppable xd
      2) Play Armageddon. You negate the drawback of Erhnam and rob the opponent of a chance to kill it.
      But the Armageddon + Orb synergy was interesting before they removed the interrupt card type.

    • @exsnypre
      @exsnypre Před rokem +3

      @@mariopineda9932 Ernhamgeddon definitely played Zuran Orb. Look up Bernard Lestree's list from the 1996 Pro Tour, aka the marquee Ernhamgeddon deck .

    • @Nalianna
      @Nalianna Před rokem +1

      Ivory tower is fun with stasis, too. use stasis to delay, while howling mines feed you an island every turn, gain 3, gain 3, gain 3...

    • @horstmotzle6458
      @horstmotzle6458 Před rokem +1

      @@Nalianna Stasis was super evil :D

    • @horstmotzle6458
      @horstmotzle6458 Před rokem +1

      @@exsnypre thanks, exactly thats what i thought, too. I have some of the WCD Decks with Orb and Ernham Djinn in them

  • @RikersStupidBeard
    @RikersStupidBeard Před 11 měsíci

    In the mid-90s I used to play a RG deck where Turn 1 Taiga-Kird Ape was the typical first play with Ernham Djinns on turns 3/4 off Sol Rings/Mana Vaults etc. Was great fun.

  • @jaazh9426
    @jaazh9426 Před rokem +2

    Great write up Seth.
    Here's one person that appreciates the nuanced history of our great game.

    • @MTGGoldfish
      @MTGGoldfish  Před rokem +1

      Glad you liked it! These are some of my favorite videos to make. I love Magic's history too.

  • @SuperKalmageddon
    @SuperKalmageddon Před rokem +3

    Beacon of Immortality + False Cure was a known 1 shot in commander back then which might be why it raised a red flag.

  • @LaBlueSkuld
    @LaBlueSkuld Před rokem +2

    Ivory Tower was also really effective when paired with Necropotence. Pay 3 or 4 life to reload your hand... and then gain it all back at next upkeep.

  • @ritchie1457
    @ritchie1457 Před rokem +2

    Loved seeing Evan Erwin commenting on the Juggernaut post 😊 the godfather of youtube magic content and mtg content in general 😄 also wild nacatl banning makes me miss Shards of Alara, Worldwake early standard before caw blade 😅 great in depth review Seth love the content and all of you guys from the MTG Goldfish crew

  • @Xenozfan2
    @Xenozfan2 Před rokem

    What printing is the Sensei's Divining Top in the background of 5:35? It's not on any website I could find.

  • @Clonekiller66
    @Clonekiller66 Před rokem +2

    Juggernaut was banned because of a combo with Invisibility. Making Juggernaut unblockable.

    • @ronaldwayne7092
      @ronaldwayne7092 Před rokem +1

      People have said that, but it's not possible because Invisibility was not in any Extended-legal set at the time, as the first core set allowed was Revised.

  • @silversylvis
    @silversylvis Před rokem +1

    "Juggernaut doesn't even show up in standard, it's that bad."
    Graaz: "*sad juggernaut noises.*"

  • @kukuc96
    @kukuc96 Před rokem

    I like how Kird Ape is right next to Channel in the ban notes, one of the most broken free mana cards in magic.

  • @jonothanthrace1530
    @jonothanthrace1530 Před 17 dny

    A friend of mine plays an Italian Sword of the Ages in an artifact deck and it occasionally does things, which I always get a kick out of.

  • @bluedestiny2710
    @bluedestiny2710 Před rokem +2

    While I didnt play in that era, I have seen many of these being used at the time. Let me just add a few things I remember about them:
    Ivory Tower: I've seen White / Blue control decks use this. Once they set up a lock like Moat (non-flyers cant attack) or Island Sanctuary / Howling Mine (does what Moat does but you need to skip drawing a card) to stave off most of your opponent's creatures, Ivory Tower just keeps raising your life to a point where your opponent just wont be able to do anything but scoop or die VERY SLOWLY via the single copy of Millstone that the control deck uses -_-
    Juggernaut: Same as the ape: it was just efficient for its time... and splashable in any deck since it was just an artifact. I saw a LOT of decks play it, even some control decks as their win-con, so im guessing Wizards just didnt want it all over the place?
    HEre's more entry for this list:
    Shahrazad: banned at around 1994... I mean, this card screams "logistical nightmare!" ranging from time limit to tracking of game state... and worse, if multiple copies were cast during subgames and / or main games... people WILL forget stuff -_- but the card is pretty bad. After winning a sub-game, it just halves the life of the losing player: which isnt really meaningful most of the time.
    Falling Star: Restricted in 1994, banned 1995. It's a 3 mana red sorcery where you have to toss it in the air to a certain height and any creature it lands on takes 3 damage. If the creature isnt destroyed, it gets tapped and "stunned" for 1 turn. While the effect is kinda ok, the randomness that comes with flipping the card up like Chaos Orb makes it more cumbersome to use. While Chaos Orb at least blows up whatever it touches, this one only affects creatures. If youre not dextrous enough and it lands on Lands... well, tough luck!
    Still, I think this card was restricted and later banned more due to the stuff you need to do (stand up and aim and throw...) and the interaction that your opponent can do (i.e spread his creatures across the table or move 5 feet away from you) rather than what the card does. For what it does, just... use Lightning Bolt, Incinerate, Chain Lightning, Carbonize, Arc Lightning etc etc etc

    • @dementievatz
      @dementievatz Před rokem +1

      I too was surprised at absence of Shahrazad.

  • @briandiadem
    @briandiadem Před rokem +2

    Sword of the Ages is actually a powerhouse in old school. Tron decks can generate a ton of mana for artifacts pretty quick, throw in mana rocks, etc, and you could potentially be using SotA with saaaay a Colossus of Sardia, Juggernaut, etc by turn 4 or 5.

    • @andrewharrison5801
      @andrewharrison5801 Před rokem +1

      Kinda tempted to throw it into my green go wide/go tall decks. Seems like a good way to finish people off.

    • @kingfuzzy2
      @kingfuzzy2 Před rokem

      It's stupid in og karn commander decks and so are most high cmc terrible artifacts for that matter : D

  • @roberthornyak5875
    @roberthornyak5875 Před rokem +1

    I have never used diving top like that, I used it as an infinite draw mechanic by making artifacts cost less and letting me play the top card of my library.

  • @intelligentcounterspell16

    I pretty much only play commander but man top in a 60 card deck would suck , lol that picture of the guy was perfect

  • @JuanFelipeCalle
    @JuanFelipeCalle Před rokem +1

    I have fond memories of Sword of the Ages since it was a way to break the stalemate of a bunch of creatures looking at each other. In multi-player free-for-all games, sometimes the board state would look like Player A & B have a bunch of creatures, and Player C doesn't, but if A or B wipes out C, then they are left defenseless. With the Sword, A could wipe out C, then fling his board at B.

  • @sammorin6877
    @sammorin6877 Před rokem

    Omg Seth mentionning Beacon of immortality, bring me so many good memories. My first magic deck i ever bought like 16-17 years ago was a cleric tribal deck with 4 mother of runes,4 battletide alchemist, and many cleric card from scourge/onlsaught like battlefield medic,doubtless one, weathered wayfarer and 3 Beacon of immortality on it. That was during the time where i think the conflux block was being released and all my friend were playing upgraded version of the time spirals/lorwyn precon.
    So basically we were a bunch of 13 years old, doing those crazy 6-7 players free for all games where like 1 guy was playing sliver tribal,1 elf, 1 goblin, 1 faerie, 1 fungus, 1 cleric and nobody knew what a boardwipe was and i kept winning by sitting in my corner preventing all damage, gaining a million life with beacon of immortality and then attacking with a 30/30 protection from whatever my opponent was playing.
    After a while my friends decided that my deck was too strong and they decided to ban beacon of immortality from our playgroup because mostly of the shuffle back in the library effect allowing me to use an it average of 10 times per game XD.

  • @TripsAhoy
    @TripsAhoy Před rokem

    The Top explanation was spot on lol.

  • @immortalgamer3960
    @immortalgamer3960 Před rokem +3

    Beacon of Immortality holds a special place in my heart for creating the game where I lost at 8 Billion life. So I was playing Mirrodin Block constructed with a friend of mine back in the day and my deck's strategy was to stall out the board and play beacons to gain infinite life until my opponent decked themselves. So my friend (not yet knowing this was my deck) played me a game and eventually dropped his one of Darksteel Reactor. We were kids at the time so synergy was not really our forte; twenty long turns later with 4 cards left in his library, and me at 8 billion life, he won the game.
    Hmm, interesting on #8, I get most of them, but cleanse seems kinda weird. Yeah it destroys all black creatures, but the art clearly shows zombies and other undead, if it showed something else, I could see that, but still. I get the implication, but it's rather roundabout and seems like a coincidence rather than then the others that were clearly intentional. As for invoke prejudice, I totally get why that was banned (A friend of mine even told me once that the artist was a legit KKK member, though I have no idea if that's actually true or not), I'm always sad to see the Commander format loose weird cards that does odd stuff. I would like to see a functional but more tasteful reprint of that one some day.

    • @kingfuzzy2
      @kingfuzzy2 Před rokem +1

      I do like weird cards and winning off of them.

    • @RaceBandit
      @RaceBandit Před rokem

      The reprint's name can be something like Waning Prism's Interference.

  • @Finngrinder
    @Finngrinder Před rokem +1

    Zuran Orb nukes board states with Balance, Ivory Tower created a neverending Necropotence draw

  • @UniGya
    @UniGya Před rokem +1

    Beacon of Immortality being banned in Commander might have to do with how life worked at that time. The original rules for life totals in commander wasn’t that you start with 40 life but rather that you start with 200 divided by however many players there were. So 1v1 had 100 life, 3 players had 66 or 67 life (I don’t remember if it was rounded up or down) and 4 players had 50 life. That meant that Beacon of Immortality could shoot you up insanely high and drag out the game for ages.

  • @jasonkorf7700
    @jasonkorf7700 Před rokem +2

    Two things, I don't think top should be on the list. Yes I get that it got banned for slow play rate, but it also banned from legacy for it's ability to create soft locks too.
    Second thing, the problem with Attune with Aether as Saffron Olive stated was the Energy and Attune was such a big enabler of that deck. That banning it at the time was reasonable because of how strong the deck was and the fact that wotc didn't print effective hate cards to it because Maro hates things that interact with poison or energy.

    • @MTGGoldfish
      @MTGGoldfish  Před rokem +5

      Top is an interesting one to debate. It wasn't banned for being too good (but for being too slow) but it's also not a bad card. I don't think I'd remove it from the list all together, but I would probably bump it down to the bottom of the list based on everyone's feedback.

  • @aciarduce
    @aciarduce Před rokem

    An older guy at my game store years ago, played Ivory Tower in his Tower of Power deck. Got out the spellbook and just kept umpteen cards in his hand, not to mention all the other crap in that deck.

  • @MakeVarahHappen
    @MakeVarahHappen Před rokem +6

    I was expecting a slot about how the original legend rules made all legends inherently restricted despite being terrible.

  • @ben_clifford
    @ben_clifford Před rokem

    13:57 earned my like. Sick burn!

  • @xanadu6784
    @xanadu6784 Před rokem

    One thing to remember about life gain is that Necropotence was a thing. Zuran Orb was basically trade a land to draw 2 cards.
    I bet a big part of a few of these bans was Kird Ape-giant growth-berzerk-fork. Back in the day, that was downright terrifying, if hard to pull off

  • @sk8rdman
    @sk8rdman Před rokem +1

    I expected to see the ante cards and/or Shahrazad on this list, but I'm kind of glad you didn't include them because everyone basically already knows about them and why they're banned. Most of these cards have more interesting stories.

  • @OtakuNoShitpost
    @OtakuNoShitpost Před rokem +2

    I think Beacon was banned because it shuffles back in, and with a 100 card deck, beacon can run the risk of both crazy life totals and extending the game through repeated shuffling

  • @Shuvinile
    @Shuvinile Před rokem +1

    I like the new style of video. I really like modern content, but this is a cool style.

  • @andreww479
    @andreww479 Před rokem +1

    My guess with Beacon of Immortality is not having a commander damage rule at the time and not being able to give non combo decks an out against infinite life

  • @phyrexian_dude4645
    @phyrexian_dude4645 Před rokem

    Oh Senseis Divining Top... I still remember an Extended Tournament i was in and on the first round there was a mirrior match of two mono B control decks and, somehow, both had Top and Counter Balance in play... when turns was called by the judge they were still on the first match...

  • @Prince_Smugarina
    @Prince_Smugarina Před 27 dny

    The story of "Invoke Prejudice" is kind of ironic, despite being the most absolutely on-point freaking art and effect. Its the most literal form of a "hate" spell towards creatures that didn't share a mana color with YOUR creatures.

  • @Prince_Smugarina
    @Prince_Smugarina Před 27 dny

    For Sensei's top, I say retcon to "Apprentice's Divining Top" Does the exact same thing, but with an added effect. "ONLY ONCE PER TURN!"

  • @austinwilburn1772
    @austinwilburn1772 Před rokem

    I use to play standard around the same time as energy, I never played it but I really like energy. It’s just such a neat deck to see. I’ve wanted to build energy in modern and pauper for the longest.

  • @ashzciwobuz1277
    @ashzciwobuz1277 Před rokem

    Seeing kird ape and Nacatl makes me miss my old Zoo deck. I ran it up to eldrazi winter when i completely stopped playing modern and havent gone back to it.
    I remember Coco being one of the most busted cards printed for me

  • @diegocrusius
    @diegocrusius Před rokem

    good video. I remember when nacatl got banned the modern format improved greatly until it was time to unban it

  • @nharviala
    @nharviala Před rokem +2

    I feel like all of Top's issues could be solved by making both effects a sorcery speed. You want to do it multiple times a turn? Fine, but it won't matter usually more than twice. No topping in response, it becomes able to be solved... and none of this will happen, since WotC usually doesn't errata cards without very, VERY good reason (*cough* Companions... *cough*). Not my idea, but a very good one!

  • @NeiroAtOpelCC
    @NeiroAtOpelCC Před rokem

    Thank you for an educational and entertaining video

  • @scottmccullough835
    @scottmccullough835 Před rokem

    I played sword of the ages with mishra's workshops and glyph of destruction to buff a wall and fling it really eary in the game. This was back in the 90s.

  • @flyingtoastr
    @flyingtoastr Před rokem +32

    The Commander ban list makes perfect sense once you replace "banned" with "cards that Sheldon personally doesn't like" and "legal" with "cards that Sheldon likes."

    • @leonsegade-garcia2936
      @leonsegade-garcia2936 Před rokem +10

      fair but i dont think anyone wants channel, karakas or most of the power 9 to be legal

  • @nickyg14
    @nickyg14 Před rokem +1

    NGL, as someone who only started playing in the mid 2010s, I appreciate these lil' history vids

  • @JD-gk7eh
    @JD-gk7eh Před rokem

    Some of these make a lot of sense for their time. Kird Ape, Juggernaut, Serendib Efreet...yeah, those were head scratchers in 1997 too. I remember when Extended came out and we didn't really understand the banned list for that.

  • @jcbillman
    @jcbillman Před rokem

    Zuran Orb was also synergistic with Balance when it was legal. If you could get a slightly better creature in play then you could sac your lands and cast Balance to win the game.

  • @slayerofthebuzz1
    @slayerofthebuzz1 Před rokem +2

    Man, I've played this game for 29 years and I never knew about Sword of the Ages!
    Even as a little kid who thought Necropotence was a useless card, I knew that thing was trash. Maybe they banned it Because it's so bad. . .

    • @madjoe8622
      @madjoe8622 Před rokem

      man, It was such a joy playing with 4 necro back in the day.

  • @viviblue7277
    @viviblue7277 Před rokem +1

    I like that the commander banlist is complete nonsense. It keeps the format fun casually.

  • @Rorschachqp
    @Rorschachqp Před rokem

    Zuran Orb was crazy back when the format was much slower and gave you several turns to stay alive…long enough for you to draw one of your 4x Balance. Imagine you have only Enchantments and Artifacts for permanents, you have The Rack or 2x out and Zuran Orb. Even if you get knocked down to 1 life you can tap all your land mana into pool, cast Balance as your last card, the opponent discards his entire hand, sacs all creatures, loses all their land because you have no land, sacced to Zuran Orb. Even in type 2 when Necro was all the rage, the Ehrnam Geddon decks would sac all lands in response to their own Armageddon. Also, it combo’d great with Land Tax, which got reprinted in 4th Edition forming a devastating mechanic.

  • @spencerhayes8633
    @spencerhayes8633 Před rokem +1

    In 2004 Beacon of Immortality was more problematic than Ante cards, Chaos Orb or Power 9...

  • @jonothanthrace1530
    @jonothanthrace1530 Před 17 dny

    When I came back to Magic and started playing Commander, half the other players had Tops and oh boy did it eat the time, especially when you had "In response to your Top, I Top"

  • @mrchauncy8832
    @mrchauncy8832 Před 3 měsíci

    Turn 1: Taiga, Kird Ape.
    Turn 2: Ape attacks. Anything you can possibly block with is dead. If you happen to be playing Kird Ape as well, it gets bolted. No block? Double giant growth or a bloodlust makes 6-8 damage on turn 2.
    It was a whole different world back then
    Turn 3 Juggernaut or Ernham Djinn was hard to recover from. Terror and Swords were the instant removal of the time. Swords gave a ton of life and Terror didn't kill Juggernaut.
    Also keep in mind Sol Ring was legal back then.

  • @christopherealy8025
    @christopherealy8025 Před rokem

    My dad played back when juggernaut was legal. His take was essentially that it was too "decent." It was a decent card on rate, despite only having 3 toughness. It wasn't the most powerful creature in the format, but WoTC was afraid it would become too ubiquitous due to it's colorless casting cost, so the banned it to prevent homogonization. It was just low costed enough to fit in the top end of aggro decks, and had good enough power for control decks to be incentivized to take it. The extra mana they were saving vs playing other 5 mana creatures would allow them to hold up mana faster and more often after casting it. Basically, the every reason smuggler's copter was banned in standard minus the power of smuggler's copter. Remember, like you said, creatures were pretty bad back then. A 5/3 could survive a majority of creatures, as 2 power was far more common than 3 power on creatures back then. Not only that, but most creature 3 power and above either had restrictive casting costs, or some sort of on board downside like not being able to atfack or block unless you met a certain condition. For some more context, walls were actually the most common card type printed in mtg for a while, so we're also talking about a format where "cannot be blocked by walls" was far more of an upside.

  • @connorgibson5224
    @connorgibson5224 Před 18 dny

    I remember seeing attune with aether being banned in standard and that was probably the most confused I’ve ever been at a banlist in my 17 years of playing this game 😂

  • @Michael-eq8th
    @Michael-eq8th Před rokem

    When does the sword of the ages legacy against the odds video come out

  • @akfrost
    @akfrost Před rokem

    beacon of immortality + false cure is a one-shot win. I used to have a deck based around that.
    Although, it's more likely it just caused a lot of shuffles of large libraries.

  • @zerrideas2286
    @zerrideas2286 Před rokem

    I read in an old source, perhaps a Duelist magazine, that Juggernaut was supposedly a problem because Invisibility made it unblockable.

  • @glitch01234
    @glitch01234 Před rokem +1

    I wonder if beacon of immortality got banned because it says target player and double or as I read it gain exact life total. there are quite a few ways to turn life gain into life loss plus you'd have those on the board long before getting the mana to play Beacon in commander.

  • @RedPenDragon3
    @RedPenDragon3 Před rokem +1

    I love sword of the ages. It's in my colorless commander deck. Karn's personal rail gun

  • @JediMB
    @JediMB Před rokem

    After Attune with Aether got banned, the rest of our local players phased out their energy decks.
    So that gave my RG Pummeler deck more time to shine and stand out, as Attune wasn't necessary and Rogue Refiner wasn't even on the list.
    My deck even ended up going undefeated at the Swedish Nationals.

  • @wwzach169
    @wwzach169 Před 23 dny

    Easiest way to have dealt with the top problem is you just make a rule that you have 30 seconds per activation to rearrange thhe top 3 cards after which the judge will have you shuffle the top 3 and put them back on top

  • @mattm7798
    @mattm7798 Před rokem +11

    I could see ivory tower being an amazing sideboard card against aggro or even mid range to some extent. By turn 4 or 5, assuming you played it turn one, it may have gained 10+ life. Given that, if wotc wanted aggro to be good, i could see them banning it. Heck, ivory tower would be a good sideboard card today if a meta was filled with aggro.

    • @poiri
      @poiri Před rokem +9

      It wouldn’t be good against aggro today because in order to gain life with it you need to either not cast spells, which means not dealing with opposing creatures, or spend mana on drawing extra cards, which also doesn’t deal with your opponents creatures. In almost any format with a good aggro deck you’d take more damage trying to gain the life than you’d actually gain. Against burn, and only creatureless- or very creature light burn, it could be decent, but even that is pushing it due to how slow it is.

    • @cedricappleby2006
      @cedricappleby2006 Před rokem +2

      Pure lifegain has sometimes been playable in sideboards, yeah. It's not very good vs. aggro but it can do work against all-in strategies like Burn. Like Dragon's Claw in Modern. (Though the format is way too fast for that to matter, now.)

    • @bluedestiny2710
      @bluedestiny2710 Před rokem

      In the middle ages of magic, Ive seen this card to some real work in control decks. Ive seen control decks reach a point where their set up allows them to gain 3 life per turn, have some sort of protection (i.e Moat) and have a win-con. The win-con for more sensible deck builders are usually either Serra Angel or Mahamoti Djinn, but some more crueler players use a single copy of Millstone. If you happen to face these sadistic players... your match is gonna take SO long... watching paint dry is probably faster -_-

  • @catoticneutral
    @catoticneutral Před rokem

    so Sword of the Ages is like a mass fling? That sounds pretty cool, I might try it out in an edh deck

  • @KalosPVP
    @KalosPVP Před rokem

    I loved Kird Ape in early 90s burn decks. It did a lot of work with giant growth and lightning bolt. 8 damage on turn 2 was no joke, especially when playing against other kids with mediocre cards.😂