There are no OLD, BOLD pilots. What happened to Jim Tweto? Possible explanation.
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- čas přidán 7. 09. 2024
- There are no OLD, BOLD pilots. What happened to Jim Tweto? Possible explanation.
#generalaviation #pilotlife #aviation #cessna #pilottraining #newpilot #bushflying #jimtweto
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Years ago, I had taken two people to a fly in lunch event. I made sure the plane was within limits, and even left a lot of fuel behind anticipating landing again in 19 miles to refuel with better runway conditions. This particular event attracted so many airplanes that when it was over, they had guys with flags waving the next plane onto the (grass) N/S runway for departure. And this is where things got weird. The wind was mostly favoring a southern departure (fluctuating cross-wind), but everyone was taking off to the north "as instructed" by the probably non-pilot flag men. It was an uncontrolled airport, and the north departure was also running uphill. As my passengers were busy doing what passengers do, I was sitting on a picnic table assessing everything that was going on here. I was flying an Archer, and there were other Cherokee products as well as a few 172's, all equally loaded in my opinion, successfully departing. I must have watched 30 or more planes take off. So, with the knowledge that I was within limits based on all available information I had, and having watched other airplanes depart, I elected to get in line. I back taxied to the very very end, making sure to grab every inch of runway, began the take off roll, got the nose wheel up and into ground effect, and then......NOTHING. I was past the point of no return, and the SOB would not climb. I was gaining altitude but the uphill runway under me was keeping pace. At the end of the runway, there were trees, covering the hill/mountain I was supposed to be climbing over. At the very last possible moment, just seconds before impact, I reached down and pulled in all the flaps. It was a last ditch attempt commanded by something deep in my mind, as opposed to a conscious and direct thought. I didn't think about it, I just DID IT. And I did this with such haste that I hit my knuckles on something (I still don't know what it was) and I had blood running down my hand and wrist. But it worked. The plane climbed the hill, with the trees just 4-5 feet below us all the way. Once I cleared the top, we flew out over a cliff and leveled off above the lake. Thirty some years later, I can still hear myself exhaling once I cleared the last of the trees. Throughout all of this, both my passengers were oblivious just thinking it was business as usual. I didn't discuss the near tragedy with them. I saw nothing to gain by doing that, but I took with me the most valuable lesson one could ever learn. Trust your gut. Something didn't feel right. On paper, we were "good to go", and yet there was that nagging little voice telling me to re-evaluate and change things up. Looking back, if I had not decided to go in empty and re-fuel 19 miles later, we'd have surely hit the trees. I don't fly anymore (medical issues) but the experience I garnered that day stayed with me for the rest of my flying days.
Holy F, what a captivating read. I know exactly how you felt.
Wow, intense! Clearing trees by feet is sketchy! Appreciate the comment. Thanks for watching!
Sharing a near miss like this is extremely valuable. All the learnings are there, but without the incident.
Thank you.
Great honest self assessment, thanks for sharing!
I'm curious what you mean by pulled in all the flaps? You went full flaps or zero flaps?
I actually put a plane down on a back country strip in Alaska this past Friday . Did several fly-by’s and everything looked good. Did a touch on the next pass to test the surface and felt firm. Came in for the final landing and as soon as I dropped the flaps I felt the plane just bog down. I threw full throttle and pulled some flaps back in, but was still slowing down. I ran out of runway and just committed to the landing trying to keep from nosing over. Turns out there wasn’t much grass and it was a lot of muskeg which holds standing water just below the surface. I taxied to the end of the runway while configuring the plane for takeoff. I was nervous if I stopped completely I’d never get the plane back out. I made several attempts to takeoff and made it into low ground effect one time, but got lucky and recognized what was happening and aborted the takeoff instead of floating it into the trees at the end of the runway. Had to pay an atrocious amount of money to contract a chopper to sling load the plane out of there, but I’m uninjured and the plane is still undamaged so I simply chalk this up to an expensive learning experience
That's one heck of an experience. Good move made. Thanks for sharing!
Nicely done
You dropped the flaps ? No guy, you CUT DID THE FLAPS Instead, and felt it bogged down. You are confused in flaps clear use.. Better to use Taxi Flaps on soft ground. CFI.
arcticcowboy8659.
Just curious, what does a typical heli pickup cost?
RIP Jim Tweto and Shane Reynolds. Thanks for this video Chris. It's great to hear from a pro that has significant bush flying experience and there's lots of valuable lessons here even for us weekend warriors on paved runways.
Things can go sideways pretty quick. Thanks for watching!
I had a fun career in skydiving. Advanced the ranks quickly. Was invited to be a part of an Airshow 2 weeks after graduating AFF... felt great. I'd only been skydiving 6 weeks. I was getting accolades, picture on the cover of a regional brochure. I won an accuracy contest at that airshow.
I jumped hard. Accumulated 3000+ jumps in a very few years. Never had any accidents or injuries.
Being of scientific/mathematical mind, one day, out of the blue... I was done. No reason other than the visualization of probability in my head. Sold all my gear.
Over the next 10-20 years, I slowly lost 4 skydiving friends, 2 who were my original AFF instructors to canopy collisions and aircraft accidents, one had pilot chute deploy on climb out, his body tearing off half of the C206 elevator.
Life is truly precious. I am not a fearful guy,at all! ... yet I made a decision that changed my life.
Such are the things of life.
I admire your courage and sobriety to decide not to fly bush any longer. I totally understand your conviction and wisdom behind it.
Every time somebody gets in a plane or skydives etc, they're rolling the dice and hoping something won't go wrong, but eventually the roll is going to be bad.
3000 in "a few years? I got over 6000+ and even working full time year round I could only get 800 a year so 3000 in a few years is a stretch.
@@tungstenkid2271 Good habits can shift the math WAAAAY in your favor, though. But there are variables that one cannot control.
@@FLY2KO You don't know me, anything about me. But yet you felt compelled to call me a liar, in public.
Fascinating.
"A man has to know his limitations" and then act accordingly to them!
Great analysis. Two things I find that are the most important to any pilots:
1. We teach students on High Density Altitude takeoff by simulating reduced thrust on piston aircraft, and make them aware of the performance reduction. However, they rarely get to experience the reduced lift over wings in actual high DA scenarios.
2. Slow flight is practiced over and over in flight training. We always preach "power for altitude, pitch for airspeed". However, this is always done at a sufficiently safe altitude and with partial power settings. The reality when you get out of ground effect too early is that you have no more additional power to play and no altitude to pitch down and gain airspeed.
This is not an analysis. He has no facts and is just guessing.
They'll take their students onto a long runway, and then, rather than using full power, they'll take off with a reduced power setting to simulate a high altitude airport. An aircraft has reduced performance at high altitudes as the air is much thinner. Hope this helps.
@@user-ef2bx9fb4y stfu that wasn't patronizing at all 🤣
@@user-ef2bx9fb4y Whoa no need to get all pissy. How did the guy know you had any experience by reading the question you posted? He gave a simple explanation which was not at all patronizing.
@@user-ef2bx9fb4y If you weren't trolling, you might want to consider working out whatever life problems you have before dealing with the public. You got angry for no reason at all.
Flew Alaskan bush for over 20 years. In 1994, there were 15 fatalites of people i knew. Billy D., if you read this, I know that you remember that year, many were your friends. At the 3rd funeral, I got tired of hearing "a great pilot, I'd fly with him any time". I said to myself, "then why are we here. For 30 seconds they weren't". They made bad decisions. "Get there itis" was a major killer. In 2009, a dear friend was eager to get to his High School 40th reunion and ignored the weather briefing and flew his Lancair 4P into a Cat 5 thunderstorm. The wings and horizontal tail sections were torn off at 20,000 FT. I just pray that he was not conscious during the decent. Pushing the weather, overloaded aircraft, and game spotting were the primary causes of crashes and fatalities during my time while living in Alaska. All were based on the decisions made by the "Pilot in Command, (PIC)".
Dang, 15. Appreciate you sharing. Thanks for watching!
50 yrs CP. Never flew Alaska.
More than once I said, NO, not going.
Threatened with being fired, I said, OK, BYE BYE.
Here I am.
Old not stupid.
GOD DAMN! RIPPED THE WINGS OFF AT 20K FT! THAT FUCKER MUST HAVE HAD THE TIME OF HIS LIFE ON THE WAY DOWN! LITERALLY!
I worked jobs in Alaska where I routinely hired air taxis. I would never pressure the pilot and always had the attitude that there is always later or tomorrow if conditions were questionable. A few people that did similar work didn’t end up so lucky. A couple of them died in helicopters and a few more in fixed wing aircraft.
Hello. I'm a family member of Shane Reynolds. The crash happened around 11:48 am. What we know is the trouble came due to the overweight from the bear and weight. They didn't gain elevation.
Thank you for updating the group.
Thank you, Cami. And we are all very sorry for your loss.
Sorry for your loss
Flew 207's out of Kotzebue in the 1990's for Ryan Air. Flew charters Part 135 in MN before that. Currently, am over-the-road trucker. One point. Privately, you may fly/drive a million miles, but do it commercially and it all changes. You push yourself to the edge because you have expectations placed upon yourself and, of course, this affects your judgement, greatly. Very difficult to balance out. In your quiet time, you need to set some parameters of what you will and will not do. And, yes, sometimes it's a life and death decision and the boss or customer may not see it that way. A pilot/driver needs to have some real strength of character to keep everyone alive-period.
So well said! Thank you!
Much like yourself I used to do part135 work, aerial photos, freight etc. Also did the OTR thing for a couple million miles. Scared myself pretty bad in both ventures to the point of realizing just how old do I want to live to? That being said I keep my feet on the ground now and just fix the big stuff.
Amen.....did Parts/ Service/ Maintenance for A Florida FBO for the 1990's.....operated anything Piston, twins to Trainer and had to give it up due to a Divorce. Never lost a plane or Pilot, but had a fleet of 26 at a time......lots of leveraging the odds.
I can do a Tweto business in Florida......could never believe u could do it in Alaska. When I learned of his passing, it took my Breath away, and my heart just got heavy. I pray God watches over the Tweto Gals.......and I'm heartsick about that Cool ass Tougher than the Rest Cessna 180
10 years in Nome, '85-'95. Mechanic mostly, 1 year 207. Route checks in OTZ '94, with Warren Thompson.
You need to recognize when you get to life number seven and quit the bush like you did and keep lives 8 and 9 in reserve for later !!!
Jim was one of the very few pilots with probably 36 lives or more but unfortunately even he finally ran out. Jim was one of the finest men in Alaska and well as one of the finest bush pilots. He did many many things for the communities and people free of charge.
May He Rest In Peace and may his friends and family find comfort in the way he lived his life !!!
I watched the discovery Channel series; seemed genuine and a family man. Definitely a big loss. Thanks for watching!
Flying a plane is easy. Not dying is the hard part. Jim failed.
Iam 81 old and did a lot of flying in Alaska and the Idaho back country your words are right on
Thanks for watching! Appreciate the comment!
I usually skip over these type of videos, however this was excellent; well-thought-out and comprehensive,w ith a respectful tone. We live on a grass strip and I recently had a somewhat similar experience with an airplane that wasn't making full power. Thankfully, we were able to circle back and land safely, but your comments about go/no-go points and the power curve are spot-on. Great content!
Your positive feedback is much appreciated. Thanks for sharing and watching!
I think this is going to be spot on, tastefully and articulately stated. Well done 👍🏻
Thanks for watching!
Bush flying would be to stressful for me, hats off to you sir. Condolences to the family for their loss.
Thanks for watching!
I feel so bad for Jim and his family and friends. I watched all his shows on TV and got to know all of them. This is just one more example of never letting your guard down. You’re not invincible. There are way too many airplane crashes per month.
Absolutely, happens fast. Thanks for watching!
Great video. Lot’s of pressure flying bush. Best advice I ever got from an instructor was “never die of embarrassment”. If the numbers don’t add up it’s a no-go.
thats a good quote. Mine is "if I ever cause an investigation, I want them to have to work hard to find the cause."
Explaining reality to proud, wealthy, paying customers who want you to make the impossible happen, must be just the worst aviator job imaginable.
"Damnit, my bear is rotting! Get this thing in the air!"
You raise a good talking point. It's imperative to set the right expectation BEFORE they leave to hunt. Get out the scale, weigh gear and passenger(s). Make it black 'n white--actual numbers make the conversation easier than guesstimated weight. Be matter of fact, not emotional. Let them know if they pack IN that heavily, they may need two flights to get a "great hunt" OUT (assuming short strip & terrain limit plane size). These pills are easier to swallow if we know before we go--make it part of the company culture (We do this because we care--we WILL get you home). It's nearly impossible for customers to accept judgement calls like that when surprised in the moment. Job number one in ANY business is educating customers first, especially in a potentially lethal biz.
In climbing we all wish to summit. But that's only the turn-around point! Hunters plan their hunt. More important to plan getting a successful hunt home.
Wow . . .enjoyed his show and his (and families) humbelness. Wish his family the best. Thanks for sharing!
I had no idea how complex bush flying is, every takeoff is a calculated risk. I'm sure Tweto knew this. Even if you know your aircraft inside and out, theres so many external factors that you've explained that makes this an incredibly risky line of work for a commercial pilot. Massive respect to him. I didn't watch the show very often as the editing made me cringe and made him look reckless, as it makes for good TV. Thanks for making this video again Chris.
I'm sure my editing has given you the same reaction. 😆 Appreciate the comment, thanks for watching!
The main difference is that the culture of bush flying doesn't carry scales with them to weigh everything as it is loaded. If they flew in they can fly out, usually. But then you get hunters bagging 500+ pounds of meat or whatever and you have a situation of not being able to fly them out. A great pilot can get all the possible performance from the plane in the available conditions but physics is in charge. That pilot needs to stay within the limits applied at that field, they need to know the atmospheric conditions, exactly how much drag the runway will induce, height of the trees at the end, the wind speed and direction, and the weight of every object going into the plane and where it is positioned to be able to do a proper weight and balance on it. And then how much fuel is onboard, is the engine performing at it's rated levels, etc. In non bush flying this is much more commonly done, but in bush flying it's usually not done well when picking people up in the remote areas where they are being fetched from. Doing all these steps though removes most of the risk.
Damn. This one hurt. I followed Jim on the TV show and felt bonded to the family and all the crew they featured. What also hurts is that if it could happen to Jim, it could happen to me. I fly a C205 and can carry 1500 pounds. But you made some great points, Chris. Altitude density, the airstrip conditions, so many things, so many variables. My 1500 pounds for my homebase strip might be 2000 pounds on a lesser surface, or in compromising density altitude. Well done.
Definitely depends on the strip. Thanks for watching! Be safe out there in the 205.
YOUR LOGIC IS SKEWED BUT THE POINT REMAINS BUDDY BOY JACOB
"My 1500 pounds for my homebase strip might be 2000 pounds on a lesser surface, or in compromising density altitude"
Say what? I think ya got that backward.
@@beer1for2break3fast4 Here, let me use some extra words that I left out because they weren’t necessary. But apparently it isn’t obvious to everyone how the logic works. Here goes. If my airplane can carry 1500 pounds at my homebase airstrip at sea level on a day when the temperature is 70°F, it would be like trying to carry 2000 pounds at an airstrip at a greater altitude, with a shorter runway length, and in some altitude density. There you go. 🙄
There are old pilots and there are bold pilots. But there are no old bold pilots. My father pounded this phrase into my head for my entire life. And it's so true.
I only knew of him from the TV show, yet he seemed genuine and good person.
I learned to fly in the northern Nevada Sierras with the challenges of altitude, summer heat and afternoon winds and I have always felt it was an advantage to my skills as a pilot. When Someone with the skills and experience of Jim is lost it is a definite wake up call to all of us. It is rarely only one mistake that gets you but a series of mistakes we make. Most pilots I know have had a close call or two in their time flying. RIP and best wishes to the Family
Very good video. Man he is going to be missed in the Bush pilot community for sure .
Big loss for sure. Thanks for watching!
My heart goes out to the family. Such a tremendous loss. Heartbroken to hear the news about Jim.
If there is a moderate slope and a mild wind, I would take off down-slope with a tailwind over up-hill with a headwind. Yes, you will need more ground speed which requires more runway length, but you also get more acceleration which requires less runway length. And even if it takes a little more runway, take-off run didn't seem to be limiting with a 4000ft runway. After you are airborne, you don't need to achieve a positive climb rate. You can just remain level gaining speed and let the terrain descend under you. Of course, it will depend on the magnitude of the slope and wind, and the best thing is to consult the airplane manual to calculate the required runway length for given wind and slope conditions and add your personal margins over it.
This speaks to me as almost all of my flying is mountain, high-DA flying. It’s frightening how quickly you can get into a coffin corner situation in high density altitudes. Stuff that you can get away with at lower elevations will kill you quick in the mountains.
Excellent warning. I fly in low altitudes now, I want to get out west into some beautiful scenery but some of it is high density altitude. I need to remember this.
Flying in the mountains is a whole other can of worms. Definitely need to stay on top of things. Thanks for watching!
Coffin corner is a high altitude scenario. 30,000 feet and higher. As aircraft fly higher, the red line speed( barber pole) decreases, and the stall speed get closer together until they are very close together. There might be a spread of 15 to 20 knots between Vmo/Mmo, and Vstall at very high altitudes.
If a stall occurs, loss of control occurs. If the aircraft is overspend, the center of lift can move aft, causing a nose down moment, further exacerbating the situation until the aircraft structure fails.
Yes, we are all aware of the technical definition and root of the term. It is being used here as a reference to a situation where you cannot go faster (cuz terrain) and cannot go slower (cuz stall). Thanks for the flex. You must be fun at parties.
@@roymollenkamp991 Any time! I always try to save people from embarrassing themselves in front of other aviators.
I actually do fairly well at parties, but then again, I am surrounded by people who know what they are talking about.
I became a fan of the Tweeto family and Jim's flying when Flying Wild Alaska was airing and send my condolences to his family. You've provided a fair and decent image of off-airport flying and its hazards, nicely done. And nice photo of the Vedder Canal at 4:25/6 :-)
Thanks for watching!
Gosh dang it......the Crocodile Hunter all over again.
As Dan Gryder noted, the only aircraft to fly into that location to help was a turbine helicopter. That says a lot about the strip and conditions.
Dead men don't argue with Dan. Dan can say whatever he wants, true or untrue. The problem with the internet is any loudmouth can say whatever he/she wants about anything. And, dead men can't argue with you either.
@@alpenglow1235 Dan is not any “loudmouth.” It is a simple fact that nobody would fly a fixed wing into that location to help. Too risky.
"Corn Patch Dan" f'ed up a fella's Cessna 150 a few years back. He has no room to criticize.
@@TheBeingRealOle 40 degree flaps with two fat people in a Cessna 150 Dan?
Trophy hunters and their helpers get what they deserve in my opinion. Ole karma….
"Quitting while your ahead, is not the same as quitting!"
Fantastic video, I am a commercial pilot and shared it with all my friends and my Dad who hunted in Alaska for many years... Thanks so much for sharing.
Thanks for watching!
Three once in a lifetime experiences flying bush Alaska. Having a max load and having to choose up hill or down wind. Used all of a 185s 300hp.
Landing on a wet grass strip after the wind changed 180.
Landing on a glazed ice strip with a strong 45 degree wind, " flew" backwards, sideways off to the ramp, then departed downwind.
It's exciting flying. Glad you made it out of there in one piece. Thanks for watching!
CFIT is a different accident. CFIT generally involves pilots/ crews *unknowingly* flying into terrain. Over gross/ beyond performance capabilities is a different accident altogether. CFIT is almost always IFR and/or night flight.
Yes, not semantics.
Thanks for the great video! I've been a pilot since 1970, but I have never done any bush flying. I think these guys and gals live on the edge constantly, and that's the rush for them. Unfortunately, once in a while, the basics bite them in the butt! I worked as an air traffic controller and they did a study on when ATC deviations occur. Almost to a one, the controllers had a minimal workload and were conducting normal ops, but had become complacent about working the position due to over-familiarity. Just saying there may be some correlation there...
Appreciate the reference to ATC. Interesting comment. Doesn't take much for procedural drift. Thanks for watching!
I remember an old joke, heard this decades ago. And a quick google found it for me again. Here it is...
A bush-pilot drops Bob and Ted, two moose hunters, at a remote lake in Northern Ontario. He tells them that he’ll be back in a week, and warns them that his plane won’t be able to take off with more than one moose.
The next week he returns, and sure enough, the hunters have bagged two moose. The pilot tells them there’s no way they can take off with the two moose. Ted says, “I don’t know, the pilot last year took off with two moose.” To which Bob adds, “Yeah, but maybe he wasn’t a total coward!”
Not wanting to be outdone, the pilot loads up everything and they start to move down the lake. The plane is gathering speed, but the pines on the shore are rapidly approaching. Finally, the plane gets airborne, but one wing clips the top of a tree. The plane spins, crashes into the trees, and breaks apart.
Sometime later Ted regains consciousness and begins searching for his buddy. He finds him, and when he wakes him up Bob asks, “Do you have any idea where we are?” Ted replies, “I think about 200 yards further than last year."
An early morning departure (just after first light) gives both improved aerodynamic & engine performance given the greater air density at that time. It assisted my C-182 take-off many years ago at Mount Hotham, Victora, Australia, when the grass strip was covered by overnight snow. After a warm water deice then a few runs up and down the strip to create channels in the snow to reduce friction on the wheels, I was ready to go.Once airbourne in the ground effect, it was time to accelerate to a safe climb speed then headed for home. The performance improvement was very noticeble with increased engine power, air mass flow from the prop and aerodynamic effects from the high density cold air.
Thanks . Iam82 and live in Idaho and flew the back country in Idaho . Had some close calls . this man is thinking right he knew when to quit,
Be safe out there. Thanks for watching!
Great discussion on a scenario that never seems to stop playing out. Thank you.
It's been a bad year for accidents. Thanks for watching!
It’s with a heavy heart to hear the news of his passing, prayers for all the families.
Experience is much more accurate than math in the art of flying, so some of us get really old before the exposure that comes with experience catches up with us. Getting out and into safer flying is a good old and sorta bold move, as with your going to the airlines. I was a crop duster when it was mostly with the 0-540 235 hp Lycoming in Pawnees and CallAirs. A ruptured dist and operation caused me to change to pipeline patrol that allowed me to fly longer I think. Ag now is mostly with 700 hp or better turboprop jet aircraft that cost enough to trigger a whole different concept of the business. I once bought a Stearman with a 450 hp P&W for $10,000 that, while a basket case, was pretty safe because the hopper (where the front pilot used to sit) would only hold 200 gal. Like bush, we could adjust the load based on experience and conditions. Having something you could always put 200 gallons in was like flying an airliner that you could expect to be able to go around on one engine with a full load. There are old, hard working, experienced pilots, who accept tough missions. Experience vs. exposure. Yes, there are few old bold pilots. Jim was one I think. Thanks for the report.
Thank you for the post, Jimmy. You lived an exciting flying career and are here to share it. A lot of risk, flying to remote airstrips. Conditions are constantly changing. The airlines; as boring as they are, provide a structured environment that most end up into. Appreciate the post!
It wasn't mentioned that not only was he an ace of a pilot but he was also an ace of a man !!!
No matter what type of plane you’re flying the weight and balance data sheets need to be used and be within the limits of your calculations. Weight times arm equals moment. Thank you for sharing this information
Appreciate the comment, Bernard. Thanks for watching!
I miss flying part 135 in the backcountry but I’m also glad I don’t do it anymore. Almost all of my close calls came from that period in my career. I was taught by the best and I still learned a lot just by getting out there and doing it. Every day was different and every situation presented some type of challenge.
Learn something new everyday. Thanks for watching!
Great brief on ground effect. Makes me think, unless your strip is next to a lake or the ocean, relying on ground effect to only be the factor keeping you in there air to accelerate is a real crap shoot. Thanks for the lessons learned.
"There are no OLD, BOLD pilots." Sure there are, Chuck Yeager, Bob Hoover, Robin Olds, ... ... ... they don't come more 'bold' than these guys, and the list is much longer. I know what you're trying to say, and you make some good points in the video but I just hope the Tweto's take it the right way. ^v^
lots of "maybe" in this accident but simply what happened was Jim hung it out to dry one time too many and it caught up to him. CFIT. Sincere condolences to family, loved ones and friends. Such a shame.
One time I weighed a Chieftain for a 135 operator. He left his map case inside and some of the drawers in the furniture had some items inside them too. He was mad I weighed it that way. So, I asked him, "Do you take these items out before you fly?" He might have wanted a little extra "legal" load capacity, but he got a small margin of safety instead. Think about it.
It doesn't take much for pushing the weight to become a norm. Good call on your part. Thanks for watching!
After flying those bush strips that one things that sticks in my mind is why we never taper the height of those trees on the ends of the runway. There's a real pucker factor when you're committed and still flying at a wall of trees.
Usually, there's a political reason we can't improve the safety of airports. This group and that group needs consultation. There is too much red tape. Thanks for watching!
Excellent report sir! Thank you for your hard work in assembling the video!
Thanks for watching!
Your own story hopefully will relate to pilots we might get away with it, until we don’t. Sad news about Jim. My condolences to his wife and family.❤
Hi Chris nice to see you again, i wasnt aware or your channel. I like your insite and opinion on this topic. Fly safe.
Thanks for watching! Hope you're well.
Settled back in kelowna enjoying the smoke and heat😎
Good living out there! Temps have looked nice. Enjoy that sunshine!
Ryan Farran, a missionary bush pilot says he weighs product onto his plane using a scale, then at least that one parameter is not guessed at.. Sorry for the loss, it all ends so suddenly.
Confused on all of the negative comments. Great take on it and good job explaining a potential cause
Appreciate the positive feedback. Thanks for watching!
Yep, I heard of Jim Tweto passing on the Blancolirio channel and very sad to hear. Unfortunately I see another topic that has come up more than once lately, is these horrible crashes of pilots trying the Impossible turn. In most of these crashes engine failure on take off was the cause, and unfortunately the decision to make that turn lead to terrible crashes with many not surviving it.
Great analysis. I just got recommended this video by CZcams. I met Jim once when he stopped for fuel where I was working on the ramp many years ago. I now have several thousand hours flying Caravans out of bush (actuallly jungle) strips where we have to consider all of these factors for every take off. Weight, altitude, performance, strip condition etc. We brief our performance on two main criteria (assuming we've loaded to the max TO weight as per our perf charts for each strip), an Acceleration Check Point and a Safe Abort Point. Our Accel check point is minimum of 70% of our rotate speed BY 50% of expected GROUND roll.
Fly the numbers, that's good stuff. Sounds exciting, flying into jungle strips! Thanks for watching!
How does one get a jungle flying gig?
I was old school as you say when I use to fly years ago and had some money to do so. But do msfs and FSX still. 1981 through around 1989.
But safe and knew the Cessnas very well. Now on the Sim I fly all the way through props to airliners and gliders and such. It is sad the accident that took place for all involved.
If you take off in a small field surrounded closely by trees, you have trapped air, and different wingtip vertices, which reduces the overall performance of any aircraft and as you say, makes Bush flying a whole different game. Maybe just 75 percent of full weight capacity in case of any hiccups in TO. Max load is noted in perfect conditions Smooth hard runway, etc.
Appreciate you sharing additional details. A lot can get you operating out of short fields. Thanks for watching!
Should make the take off w 3/4 weight see how it goes come around land and then add weight . Easier said then done I know , but a slightly underperforming engine is hard to notice sometimes but it can really make a difference in take off climb. Or your just over weight for the field but if you TO 3/4 weight you have a better idea of the performance of that field on that day and what’s a go around in the pattern take ? 10 min or less to save your life.
I’ve seen it first hand an airplane on the edge of being overweight for the field can diminish in abilities from a very small amount of added weight. 5 knots coming out of ground effect can make a huge difference too. Once you behind that curve your causing more drag making a bad situation worse.
Complacency will get the best of Pilots. RIP Jim
Sorry to hear of Jim Tweto's death. Condolences to hi family and friends. I had enjoyed his TV show a lot.
RIP. Prayers go out to the families
It said that the wind was a factor in Jim Tweto death, also a guide was killed.
i am struggling to understand how his low speed on take off could do so much damage to the aircraft. so sad to hear about Jim Tweto,
He would be at full power and unable to climb as he would have entered the slow flight range (back side of the power curve). The airplane can't climb in this range as there isn't enough lift being produced over the wing. Thanks for watching!
Thanks for that review…
The only old, bold pilot I can think of was Jimmy Doolittle...and I remember him saying in an interview late in life, that when he realized he just "didn't have it" anymore, he quit flying altogether...
I think that happens to all of us who have flown the bush. Once you lose your edge, get out. Thanks for watching.
Not worth the risk for hunting when most places there is plenty of meat in the shops.
Such a risk for an already emergency situation is bad enough (say a rescue of injured hiker)
But such a risk for a hobby or just to have bear/moose instead of beef/pork is not worth it.
I'm devastated to hear of this awful accident. RIP to them both - I thought JT was invincible with all those specialist hours etc, just goes to show.
Also I learned something new from you about the dangers of ground effect, in effect, trapping the unwary.
I encountered it once with my father on a one way in and one way out hillside grass strip - a short one, with a tree lined valley on the approach/exit and a hot summer's day. Dad in the left seat, lots of hours, but in a C150, two up, down hill, poor lift (slight change in wind direction and very hot, although early evening iirc), we got into that ground effect scenario, stall warning screaming etc as we were flying on the prop. We crawled over the tree line at the far end, after we'd flown up the valley level with the trees etc. I don't suppose we were the first or the last, but it was a sweaty palms job AND my dad was a good short/soft strip pilot (of course C150s are often good at getting into places with 40° of flap but struggle to get out again), even so, it caught us unawares. In hindsight dad should probably have flown out and I should have met him via road at another airfield ten miles or so away (by getting a car ride). But we thought all would be well, but a slight change in wind direction made it difficult. Lesson learnt😲😱✌️👍💜
If you have not reached 71% of rotation speed by 50% of the runway, you should abort the takeoff.....you won't be able to reach enough speed for safe climbout. I like to walk the runway off and put a branch or paper cup along the side ot the runway at the 50% point. When I get there, I'll know if I am gaining enough speed for safe departure. In general, you are better taking off downhill into the wind than uphaill with the wind unless the wind is blowing 20 - 25 knots uphill Get Sparky Imeson's Montain Flying Bible for more detailed explanation of ths. The "71% Rule" works on any runway surface and at any DA, field elevation, surface wind speed, or with any aircraft.
So, on a 10,000 ft runway, if you don’t have 71% of rotation speeds by the 5,000 ft mark, you should abort or continue if you do? That’s just a stupid statement. If you use this “rule” you would take off at the VERY END of the runway. You should calculate the take off distance for your aircraft from your pilot operating handbook for the existing conditions and weight of the aircraft, add a safety factor and then add your minimum stopping distance. (Also in the POH as landing distance.) Then make sure you have enough runway to do so. I know very few pilots that take off uphill with the wind. And 20-25 knots is even worse! I call BS that you are a pilot at all!
Jim was a GREAT GREAT pilot i want to know about the investigation of the engine........Why docent the NTSB have a investigation number assigned!!!!!!!
It's unfortunate how these smaller accidents get the back burner to larger aircraft accidents/incidents. We all want to know what happened. Speculation is a rabbit hole. Keep me posted if you hear of anything.
Another great vlog mate - well done 👍👌👍
Appreciate the positive feedback. Thanks for watching!
If I had the money like Jim did, I’d invest in a cargo helicopter and obtaining a commercial certificate for it. That short of a strip is too risky without a 400 hp or more aircraft.
A good idea but a cargo helicopter might not be economical. There are reasons why people fly fixed wing and one of those reasons is it's a lot cheaper that rotorcraft.
Complacency doesn't know how much horse power an aircraft has. Same results, different strip, different day.
The incideant is quite sobering. Just shows that even the best can misjudge conditions or underestimate a load.
Disagree.
There is no "underestimating" conditions.
It's actually, ah we can make it.... Get there itis.
It happens fast. Definitely lost a Legend. Thanks for watching!
'It's the propeller holding you in the air not the wind over the wings'? A Skyhawk at max thrust is creating about a 500lb force on the thrust line and on the climb at about a 10° pitch, what's that contributing to total lift - probably about 5%. In a more powerful airplane, sure, you have more climb performance, but it still requires the pilot to manage the pitch so that Vx is maintained. The back side of the power curve means that the drag is higher the slower the airspeed. It does not mean power can control altitude, and that can I think get you into a very tough position if you don't control the pitch to accelerate to Vx. I'm not saying that's what happened - just discussing any airplane's performance characteristics.
My best guess is he ended up on the backside of the curve and didn't have altitude to give up. May have had engine trouble but we're still lacking details.
Regarding my comments; yes, the wing is still flying but as the laminar flow becomes more and more disrupted, the power needs to be increased; hence the prop is keeping the a/c in the sky.
Thanks for watching.
@@thisisyourcaptainspeaking Well what I read in the manual is that increasing angle of attack raises induced drag requiring more power to maintain speed. That keeps the wing moving fast enough through the air so that it can continue to maintain the opposing force to the weight.
I would TRUST Jim explicitly. I DOUBT he made a mistake. Overloaded etc... Knowing Jim it had to be 10000% a FREAK accident. No fault whatsoever on Jim. HE DID NOT MAKE A MISTAKE. That's just who Jim was.
He was an excellent pilot. We'll have to wait and see what the NTSB comes back with. I'm speculating; hopefully, I'm wrong.
This is why we have performance charts and do the maths. Better to work it out and know what your limitations are beforehand... not while you're hurtling down the runway and hoping it will climb out!
I have great respect for this work. But it really is too dangerous for what really are unnecessary vacation flights. I watched all the TV programs, and found it is something to get yourself out of,before it's too late. You made the correct decision, eventually you will run out of luck.
Great video and explanation. Also appreciate you honest about your incident.
Thanks for watching!
Jim was a good pilot. I've flown with several times and he didn't take chances. Something happened he didn't have control of.
The pundits can't see beyond the speculative and physical evidence available on the internet.
I'd fly with Jim any day; wealth of knowledge and experience.
I've also sat at a remote strip and thought, that's a lot of stuff and this strip is trash today, I think I can make it work. We'll see what the NTSB comes back with. I hope I'm wrong but from personal experience, it's the direction I'm leaning. Thanks for watching.
Very good explanation, I suspected the same outcome to his attempted takeoff when I heard about it!
Thanks for watching!
I lost a hero of mine back in 1995. I still can’t understand why he put himself in the situation that resulted in his death. He had 40,000 hours in the air. Some things are just hard to understand.
It's always tough when we lose someone we care about. Appreciate you sharing and thank you for watching.
I only speak for myself on social media...but this is a fairly reasonable statement. unless it was powerplant failure then well lets face it its pilot error primarily in loading the plane (for all the reasons you point out). Normalization of deviance due to experience is a big deal. and I suspect in the bush that NOD is easy to come by. I only flew bush in alaska 1 summer years ago (to get DC 3 time) so really thats to long ago :) but everything you say is pretty straightforward. and look...we all NOD. its well sometimes we do it worse then we should.
I work in test and evaluation flying today . nice job and safe flights
DC-3 would be a cool bird to fly. I bet it can haul one heck of a load. Thanks for watching!
@@thisisyourcaptainspeakingProbably not from a bush strip though…
With more than 4,000 hrs PIC flying bush Alaska, delivering hunters, fisherman, miners , groceries, meat etc. on and off of sandbars, mountain tops, beaches, mud flats, ice etc. and having lost a few "bold" pilot friends over the years I learned from my own bravado to check it at home and be very circumspect and cautious about every aspect of flight. From the moment the prop starts to the moment you shut down fly the airplane and keep thinking. Easier said than done. And even then..
I agree. You're never done flying the airplane until it's in the hangar. Appreciate the comment, thanks for watching!
Thanks for the video! I would love to do bush flying in a light weight experimental one day, watching pilots take off with such large planes and loads is too much risk for me.
Thanks for watching!
Ultralights are my recommendation for major fun with minimal danger. They stall at such low airspeed your survivability in a crash (assuming you still have some control to pick your spot) is almost guaranteed. I know a fellow who's engine packed it in at several thousand feet. He had a clearing ahead to the right and another ahead to the left. He chose the left one for a dead stick landing. Unfortunately when he got to a point where he was committed he realized the clearing was all tree stumps. He glided in over top of them then banked hard left and planted the aircraft with one wing up on a tree and one on the ground. Completely painless except for the damage to his machine.
At the end of the day weight and balance calculations always falls on the PIC in situations like this. Density altitude is no joke…my guess is he was facing the 3 “H”s …Hot…Humid…Heavy…many many years ago I was on a cross country training flight for my commercial rating. I landed @Heber airport (5675 MSL). Upon landing I noticed the landing roll was a bit longer than anticipated and that my in flight fuel consumption was less than expected. Basically it was too hot to take off again with as much fuel as we had on board…my CFI and I had to recalculate for the current atmospheric conditions and determined that we’d have to wait another couple of hours for cooler temperatures before we could safely take off …we probably could have made it at the earliest time however both myself and my instructor thought it best just to wait…NOBODY EVER NEEDS TO FLY…get there itis is fatal damn near every time…patience is a life saver in aviation
Good lesson to learn early on. Thanks for watching!
I do offer my sincere condolences to the family.
My boss in 1981 was like Jim Tweto running a air charter company married to a native lady and he had always been a lucky pilot, example his almost new Cessna 185 on Federal wheel skis hit a hill while in cloud, he lost one wheel ski & gear leg was able to land at the DEW line at Cape Perry and Dad and co-worker repaired and ferried the plane out, the problem was he didn't want to spend the big money for Federal Wheel skis, instead he bought a poor set of fixed wheel skis where the tire always protruded and they were truly devastating to the take-off distance.
So he goes hunting Caribou with his boys and they try a take off with a load of meat and on the frozen lake it could not get in the air before the end of the lake. The last attempt he was not going to pull the throttle back, the plane staggered into the air in ground effect but couldn't clear the shore at the end of the lake...plane was repaired and but was never the same beautiful airplane it had been before the crash, wrong people repaired it. Fortunately for all survived
I have a set of those skis on my 170. They suck but they work and you just have to mind their capabilities.
@@New2Me170B As long as they allow you to be functional and safe. Dad had a 1955 Cessna 180 on Federal straight skis and his Helio Courier was running Federal Hydraulic wheel ski's from a Cessna 195 he had to go to some very deep powder snow in the mountains and often he wished for larger ski's but he spoke highly of Federal ski's and their perfect curved bottoms.
No mention of temperature or altitude of the air strip?
I ALWAY calculate "Density Altitude" when there is any question about the length of a short, rough, inclined airstrip.
Hey, I remember that crash in Homer. Went for flaps and hit the gear up.
Jim had bad accident up in that same area some years back, he got hurt badly, his neck was broken..... looking at the map of this crash site, it appears to be in about the same spot......😮 OMG! He used to fly guest into us back in early 1990's. Hell of a good Skywagon man. Super nice fella.
Same spot, wow! Appreciate the background info. Thanks for watching!
Maybe the weight of the bear in the back messed up the centre of gravity? I think the optimum CG position for a straight-winged plane is between 25% and 31% back from the leading edge, and if its beyond those limits the handling suffers.
PS Captain you mentioned bad ground effect in relation to your own experience, I always thought the GE "cushion" was a good thing to help planes lift off, so please clue us in about it a bit more..:)
A shift in C of G could cause Jim to reduce power in order to keep his nose down. Though it's a small cabin, a bear would use up all the space.
I couldn't climb out of ground effect. Definitely need ground effect to get airborne but at max weights on short strips, you may run out of runway before hitting the required speed to climb. Thanks for watching!
@@thisisyourcaptainspeaking Thanks, and the early Comet jet airliners ran off the end of the runways because they couldn't get out of ground effect. The unusual "fix" by de Havilland was to tell pilots to push the yoke gently forward (against the pilots instinct) as takeoff speed was reached in order to 'skate over' GE til speed built up a little more.
Having flown in AK...you are spot on.
Thanks for watching!
I had something similar - one brake dragging, so compensating, cruise prop, very hot day, heavy passenger.......sagged back to ground when I tried to lift off; trees/power lines ahead; eventually got her flying and STAYED in ground effect to try an eke out a bit more speed - over the trees, stuffed nose down; more ground effect; up over next trees, diito, then finally enough speed to climb. Bad decision making.
Sounds like a change of underwear was in order. Thanks for watching!
@@thisisyourcaptainspeaking I have faced worse flying - spiral dive in heavy cloud! "Mission fixation". Terrifying, but my RAF training saved my life - panic useless. Pilots MUST keep calm - landing in gusty conditions is a good teacher, "Relax. Do your best." Best wishes!
So sad,deepest respects to his family,and mr raynolds familly.
CC golf pro was big hunter in AK and Mont. Used same guide/ pilot for yrs(later killed in crash on pick up) --told several stories of river gravel landings and TO's and one very dark night TO using case of toilet paper avgas rwy lighting !
Pickup is always the most challenging. Thanks for watching!
Pilots fly risky scenarios until they don't need to fly risky scenarios anymore. Hopefully you make it out of the first part intact.
Over twenty years AST. Did two tours in Western Alaska and most of my road time rural.
I've known many great bush pilots. I have alot of respect for the good ones.
I've also met a few flying fools, those guys I stayed away from.
Overloaded craft is common, violating accepted standards is more the norm than not...when you fly seatfare and even sometimes on charter.
I always preferred using state pilots...they have no incentive ro fly because they get paid on the ground as well as in the air. Frankly, they're almost always a cut or two above most private operators.
Unfortunately, some pilots push the envelope too far and usually the passengers haven't the knowledge or the nerve to say "uh NO!"
Learning to say no is the key. A lesson you don't want to learn the hard way. Thanks for watching.
I have never had the desire to do any bush flying. I know it makes you a better pilot, but I prefer to know from my calculations exactly what is going to happen when I take off. Loading up 6 guys [In Alaska? Figure on 300 pounds for each of them, plus 50 pounds of gear...] in a single engine airplane like this sounds scary to me! I got my way to the airlines via flight instructing in Flori-Duh. Flagler County airport is about as "bush" as I want to get!
The airlines are a safer route. I was pretty wild in my younger years, seeking the rush. Thanks for watching!
@@thisisyourcaptainspeaking Great video!
Insightful analysis. Thank you.
Why didn't Jim use a more powerful plane for jobs where it was clear that the performance of his Cessna 180 would be marginal at best? Do you think ERA might face legal repercussions if it is determined that his aircraft wasn't being operated in a safe manner (i.e. overloaded)? I also wonder what you think of his practices as shown on the TV show of having his clients throw out items of cargo to reduce the landing weight of his aircraft. Is that an acceptable practice in Alaska? I can't imagine it would be in many jurisdictions.
The C-180 is a great plane to use for this type of work. Further information was released regarding the crash and I'm working on an additional video as a follow up. I'm sure the legal component will be a messy one.
Great analysis.
If I were a bush driver with a single engine plane of marginal power, best lift off under max weight for the prevailing conditions, shed as much weight as you can in order to lift off safely from a dirt strip. The caravan you fly is a tad underpowered, and stupid to ramp the guts out of the engine and expect it to drag you out of a sticky situation.
Why aren't load weights honored as #1, the rich people just have to pay for 2 pickups.
Sometimes it hard to get a read on how much weight is really there without a scale. Also, if the air strip was wet or muddy, it could have limited his ability to gain speed. Thanks for watching!
You should at least update this with what is factually known now. We may not know for certain why, but the 180's left horizontal stabilizer struck a 4" diameter spruce tree snapping it in half. The NTSB report has photos of both the severed tree (with the planes red paint on it), as well as the damage to the stabilizer...which has the tree fibers in it.
Thank you for providing an update!