I love the no BS approach. I called for a motor build and derek flat out told me what is a waste of money. He couldve charged and made money on these things but he told me they make no more power. Hes been a gentleman to work with
DUDE.... LOVE YOUR VIDEOS. I found you because of Deegans Bike Claim. And I am so into building and wanting to make my own custom parts. Love you stuff and I thank you for sharing some of your knowledge. I just do it for myself but sharing knowledge is the most selfless thing one can do. Thanks a ton and I am hooked and watching every video. You rock bud.
Absolutely love the in depth tech talk and explanation of engine theory and application, I can geek out on this stuff all day long and I learn so much from your videos.
Nice to know, im running 31 horsepower straight on mine 112 supermini in Denmark, ported, fmf big bore, vhm head and 28 mm smartcarb. It is running slightly rich, i was running 25 horsepower on the same dyno as maxed 85cc with stock 28 mm carb 😎👍
@@HPRaceDevelopment alright, im riding the bike as a supermoto, and i can just tell, that after installing the carb the bike runs so much better on the throttle. No bug or lag, just smooth on the gas. Thats more important for me than top end power, so im a fan 🤷
That is great to know, well done & for a young man considering a 125 instead of going into supermini, These 85 to 112 are the stepping stone for youngsters to begin the enjoyment of bikes. Somewhat rules out going to the 125 for weight ? These big wheels are also great for someone to just have fun on, with these kind of power numbers are unreal
Am I out of my mind for thinking an adult could use this for a rocketship trail bike that’s easy to throw around? I’m only 5’7 and always had a fascination with 80s
I'm 5'11" 200lbs and just got a kx112. I fly through the trails, pull wheelies through 3rd and still jump it. Idk why so many people are against adults riding superminis but are all about pitbikes. This 112 is great for trails and much more fun than a pitbike, and still much more agile than a full size bike
I'm 5'11" 200lbs and just got a kx112. I fly through the trails, pull wheelies through 3rd and still jump it. Idk why so many people are against adults riding superminis but are all about pitbikes. This 112 is great for trails and much more fun than a pitbike, and still much more agile than a full size bike
It would be sweet to see Yamaha YZ85/Suzuki RM85 with similar work and porting etc and see what power it makes on the dyno to the KTM!!! Take an older one and make it max power hahaha
@@ericschumacher5189 i'm curious too. My daughter has 4 more years on a supermini and sometime she'll need a new bike - not having to drop 2k just to get from 85cc to 112cc would be nice.
You're a handful of information man. I'm still a high school student that loves to work and tinker on my bikes just as much as I love to race them. I would love to learn how to port a cylinder, I only go as far to clean up the ports and polish them so there smooth after my rebuilds in fear if I try to port the cylinder I will end up with a ticking time bomb. Any way enough of my rant, you make great work and I enjoy the content. P.S. If I don't learn to port a cylinder expect to get a call from me.
We may offer an engine building/performance course soon. A 2 stroke one and a 4 stroke one. Shy of getting a dyno of your own and doing a lot of trial and error - you will struggle to make much progress on modern engines. They are just already darn good. Thx for the feedback - always keep learning we need new young faces to pick up and innovate beyond what we think o
In Europe, many builders can’t run good fuel. From what we’ve had on the dyno from various top notch builders in Europe, on our dyno many of the bikes are about 36-37 on the ktms, and most yz’s are 35-36 An all out effort for us has tickled 40 but most of them do 39 In other publication dynos such as MXA, 40 on our dyno is over 44 on theirs.
Here is a question for you since you were talking about carb sizing. I always hear people making the claim that airboxes are restrictive and if you open them up, ie put more holes in them/ whatever you will make more power. This always has seemed like a false claim to me as I assume that it doesn't matter because of the relatively small cross sectional area of the carb itself. And that allowing more open air before the filter wouldn't matter as long as the cross section area of all the openings before the filter matches that of the carb's cross sectional area. I'd be curious to know what conclusion you have come to?
If you had roughly 1k to spend on a 85 that already has a pipe while keeping it 85cc, where would the money best be spent? Head, lectron/mod carb, porting? 2019 KTM 85sx
@@HPRaceDevelopment reason I asked is I have an opportunity to buy a built lynx 112 with 3 hours on it that was never raced. We only ride single track.
@@jackieonassis7438 As i stated - the rpm window of an engine is determined by the pipe length. if you wish to lug - the 112 will be more of a lightswitch than an 85 If a proper longer pipe was made it would be what u wanted
What do you do when you ported the cylinder your got any pictures or videos explaining what to do I got a 105 kit coming what are the exact gains of the porting you did thanks.
How did you set deck height with the longer stroke? The deck height tools don't seem to work. Did you just go by squish? If so, what did you set squish gap to?
That's the purpose of performane engine building - finding what works. Then replicating it, then understanding why it works so the concepts can be applied to future builds. We most certainly don'ty run the piston "height" relative to the deck anywhere near the same as a stocker
What was the mods on the 85? Head only? My 12yo is aging out of his 9-12 class & needs to step up to a supermini, but idk about a full blown 112 stroker yet..... Maybe a 105 bolt on....
We have 2 bikes with HP's 105 build as our practice bikes and they absolutely rip with the added benefit of being extremely reliable. We've put around 60 hours on each as 105s and the only issue we've ever had was with VForce 3 reeds chipping early. Went to VForce 4 and bikes are incredible for 105s (we did run the KTM bolt-on 105 kit for a bit and the HP build is much faster and just as reliable). We didn't feel the need or a 112 until we started trying to push into national level competition and then the 105 got out-motored by top riders on 112s on hills. 112 takes a good bit more maintenance (currently at 5 hours replace rings, 10 hours piston + rings, crank at around 40 hours, reeds at 15 hours) and we only run it in races never training/practice except one short practice session before a race so he can feel out the jumps with the added power.
Yes we sell a complete custom programmed CDI box for all our modified packages. Without one, no engine builder is doing much, as the ignition curve matches ports and engine size
@@HPRaceDevelopment yes I saw that. What I meant is what did you do to it to make that much power while still being 85cc as you have 3 lines, stock, stock bore 85 but with big power and then modded. I m curios about stock 85 with more power, that I couldn't find
Yep. But it’s fairly useless. Long story why but ultimately power is what matters. This is true of a 4 stroke too, they like what they like, and once you find the max power setting, your goal is to replicate the indicated afr on the dyno to the afr you see on track. This requires a data system (we own and use) and lot’s of hard work and testing. The afr is a tool, not an answer
@@HPRaceDevelopment ah. Got it. Makes perfect sense! Optimum fuel to air ratio coincides with optimum power. What's your take on Smart Carb for performance? I've read that it utilizes positive air pressure to deliver fuel and also enhances fuel atomization but requires quite different order of operations for tuning AFR.
ah. Got it. Makes perfect sense! So, optimum fuel to air ratio coincides with optimum power. What's your take on Smart Carb for performance? I've read that it utilizes positive air pressure to deliver fuel and also enhances fuel atomization but requires quite different order of operations for tuning AFR.
@@1176hambone maybe some day we will do a youtube. I think there is a lot of BS involved in marketting on it and the other metering rod style carbs. Ultimately we have not seen any dyno power improvements vs a std carb thats jetted the same (when both are "jetted" or "fueled" the same) they run the same if the size of the carbs is the same
@@HPRaceDevelopment Roger that. Have you found any difference in power delivery curve, responsiveness in riding conditions, or adaptability to air density changes, elevation/temp etc?
86cc 32mm carb 50mm bore The carb diameter is equal to the exhaust port or larger. Many millions in MotoGP two stroke development. A 86cc can easily make 30hp. Programmable timing.
on our dyno??? I personally know who you would likely consider “elite road race and kart” builders with multiple world titles - and on my dyno - 30 hp 85cc only happens at 13500+ peak. While we have 85s making 30 - its not a moto friendly power curve. Sorry bud but apples to oranges. Go take your wisdom elsewhere
I love the no BS approach. I called for a motor build and derek flat out told me what is a waste of money. He couldve charged and made money on these things but he told me they make no more power. Hes been a gentleman to work with
DUDE.... LOVE YOUR VIDEOS. I found you because of Deegans Bike Claim. And I am so into building and wanting to make my own custom parts. Love you stuff and I thank you for sharing some of your knowledge. I just do it for myself but sharing knowledge is the most selfless thing one can do. Thanks a ton and I am hooked and watching every video. You rock bud.
I love the technical aspect
thanks, we hope to add more but much better organized!
Absolutely love the in depth tech talk and explanation of engine theory and application, I can geek out on this stuff all day long and I learn so much from your videos.
Thanks for the comment and watch, means a lot
Crazy stuff. Remember my 1981 yz putting out 13.5 Hp. I could still keep up with 125 experts. Good little bike. This creation is crazy, fun. 😊
I truly believe if we had 25hp bikes the sport would be better off
@@HPRaceDevelopmentI say the same thing for drag racing
The dry erase board is my favorite part.
Killer video keep them coming!
thanks
Great stuff.
Nice to know, im running 31 horsepower straight on mine 112 supermini in Denmark, ported, fmf big bore, vhm head and 28 mm smartcarb. It is running slightly rich, i was running 25 horsepower on the same dyno as maxed 85cc with stock 28 mm carb 😎👍
more to go
@@HPRaceDevelopment how much should i be able to get with 28mm?
@@kennetenglund7808 Dunno - not a fan of the SC
@@HPRaceDevelopment alright, im riding the bike as a supermoto, and i can just tell, that after installing the carb the bike runs so much better on the throttle. No bug or lag, just smooth on the gas. Thats more important for me than top end power, so im a fan 🤷
@@kennetenglund7808 jetting is that challenging???
That is great to know, well done & for a young man considering a 125 instead of going into supermini, These 85 to 112 are the stepping stone for youngsters to begin the enjoyment of bikes.
Somewhat rules out going to the 125 for weight ?
These big wheels are also great for someone to just have fun on,
with these kind of power numbers are unreal
Am I out of my mind for thinking an adult could use this for a rocketship trail bike that’s easy to throw around? I’m only 5’7 and always had a fascination with 80s
I'm 5'11" 200lbs and just got a kx112. I fly through the trails, pull wheelies through 3rd and still jump it. Idk why so many people are against adults riding superminis but are all about pitbikes. This 112 is great for trails and much more fun than a pitbike, and still much more agile than a full size bike
I'm 5'11" 200lbs and just got a kx112. I fly through the trails, pull wheelies through 3rd and still jump it. Idk why so many people are against adults riding superminis but are all about pitbikes. This 112 is great for trails and much more fun than a pitbike, and still much more agile than a full size bike
It would be sweet to see Yamaha YZ85/Suzuki RM85 with similar work and porting etc and see what power it makes on the dyno to the KTM!!! Take an older one and make it max power hahaha
We do build them, but they don’t match a mod ktm
How does the TM compare to the KTM in stock and supermini form?
@@ericschumacher5189 i'm curious too. My daughter has 4 more years on a supermini and sometime she'll need a new bike - not having to drop 2k just to get from 85cc to 112cc would be nice.
You're a handful of information man. I'm still a high school student that loves to work and tinker on my bikes just as much as I love to race them. I would love to learn how to port a cylinder, I only go as far to clean up the ports and polish them so there smooth after my rebuilds in fear if I try to port the cylinder I will end up with a ticking time bomb. Any way enough of my rant, you make great work and I enjoy the content.
P.S. If I don't learn to port a cylinder expect to get a call from me.
We may offer an engine building/performance course soon. A 2 stroke one and a 4 stroke one. Shy of getting a dyno of your own and doing a lot of trial and error - you will struggle to make much progress on modern engines. They are just already darn good. Thx for the feedback - always keep learning we need new young faces to pick up and innovate beyond what we think o
Performance on par with the manufacturers! What’s more important for the holeshot? Horsepower or Torque
hp
Traction, lol
😎🤙🔥
Amazing vid. Hope to get one from 125cc. How much peak hp do you think guys are getting out of emx125 top engines?
In Europe, many builders can’t run good fuel. From what we’ve had on the dyno from various top notch builders in Europe, on our dyno many of the bikes are about 36-37 on the ktms, and most yz’s are 35-36
An all out effort for us has tickled 40 but most of them do 39
In other publication dynos such as MXA, 40 on our dyno is over 44 on theirs.
That 80's arcade game music lol😂
yep
@@HPRaceDevelopment Love it! 👾🤙
Here is a question for you since you were talking about carb sizing. I always hear people making the claim that airboxes are restrictive and if you open them up, ie put more holes in them/ whatever you will make more power. This always has seemed like a false claim to me as I assume that it doesn't matter because of the relatively small cross sectional area of the carb itself. And that allowing more open air before the filter wouldn't matter as long as the cross section area of all the openings before the filter matches that of the carb's cross sectional area. I'd be curious to know what conclusion you have come to?
my guess on hp would be 31.5
I heard the 105 kit makes more power?
the 112 makes more peak hp but they run more flat then the 105
If you had roughly 1k to spend on a 85 that already has a pipe while keeping it 85cc, where would the money best be spent? Head, lectron/mod carb, porting? 2019 KTM 85sx
I think our videos show pretty clearly our services hard to beat. I am kind to other shops in not publishing our test results
Are the 112 engines any good for trail, lugging, or just a lot more maintenance for racing only?
If you want to lug, a proper pipe would make more improvement 85 or 112
@@HPRaceDevelopment reason I asked is I have an opportunity to buy a built lynx 112 with 3 hours on it that was never raced. We only ride single track.
@@jackieonassis7438 As i stated - the rpm window of an engine is determined by the pipe length. if you wish to lug - the 112 will be more of a lightswitch than an 85
If a proper longer pipe was made it would be what u wanted
@@HPRaceDevelopment thanks !!
What do you do when you ported the cylinder your got any pictures or videos explaining what to do I got a 105 kit coming what are the exact gains of the porting you did thanks.
nope - thats how I make a living!
31.69....
Do you plan on reviewing a crf 150 ?
If someone supplies one. The 85 makes more power than a std 150r
How did you set deck height with the longer stroke? The deck height tools don't seem to work. Did you just go by squish? If so, what did you set squish gap to?
That's the purpose of performane engine building - finding what works. Then replicating it, then understanding why it works so the concepts can be applied to future builds. We most certainly don'ty run the piston "height" relative to the deck anywhere near the same as a stocker
@@HPRaceDevelopment what did you set the squish to? 1mm?
@@alexrateliff4784 trade secret
What was the mods on the 85? Head only?
My 12yo is aging out of his 9-12 class & needs to step up to a supermini, but idk about a full blown 112 stroker yet..... Maybe a 105 bolt on....
To go from stock 21 ish to shown mod over 26 requires porting, carb, head, and CDI. It makes similar power to a bolt on 105 ktm kit
We have 2 bikes with HP's 105 build as our practice bikes and they absolutely rip with the added benefit of being extremely reliable. We've put around 60 hours on each as 105s and the only issue we've ever had was with VForce 3 reeds chipping early. Went to VForce 4 and bikes are incredible for 105s (we did run the KTM bolt-on 105 kit for a bit and the HP build is much faster and just as reliable). We didn't feel the need or a 112 until we started trying to push into national level competition and then the 105 got out-motored by top riders on 112s on hills. 112 takes a good bit more maintenance (currently at 5 hours replace rings, 10 hours piston + rings, crank at around 40 hours, reeds at 15 hours) and we only run it in races never training/practice except one short practice session before a race so he can feel out the jumps with the added power.
do you have to do anything with the computer? because ktm sell one with the 105 kit
Yes we sell a complete custom programmed CDI box for all our modified packages. Without one, no engine builder is doing much, as the ignition curve matches ports and engine size
Would love to know the maintenance intervals comparison from stock to 112. Are we still getting 100hrs on bottom and changing top end 25 hrs?
You get 100 hours on a low end?
many elite racers are lucky to go 20
@HP Race Development so 20 hrs you would need a new bottom
And top end, so full rebuild?
@@juicedelco We've had clients go 50 on low ends, if it's an important event I wouldn't suggest past 30
Top ends at 10
@@HPRaceDevelopment Is it bad that im going low end 80h and top 50h on a ktm 125 rn? Im not a racer, just a weekend rider
GG Boys 💯🤣👌👍
What where the mods on the 85 cc to make that much power compared to stock?
I think we showed it all?
@@HPRaceDevelopment im trying to find it but I cannot can you tell me the video? Thankss
@@bike23august We ported it, stroker crank, bored carb, our cdi and piston work.
@@HPRaceDevelopment yes I saw that. What I meant is what did you do to it to make that much power while still being 85cc as you have 3 lines, stock, stock bore 85 but with big power and then modded. I m curios about stock 85 with more power, that I couldn't find
@@bike23august i dont know what you are asking
Our 85 mod package is porting carb and cdi
Create a custom rubber intake boot and stuff a pwk32 in it to see how close it would come to your goal!
Have done, sadly it’s not the restriction. The reed width is more an issue than anything else
Will you be using a 125 carb on it ??
No.
@@HPRaceDevelopment Working out the power to weight ratio with a kid riding it is going to be interesting ! I can't wait to see the outcome ! 😀👍
@@scottyd2262 my daughters race 112 is *fast*. I'm 6'2 230lbs and in 3rd gear it still pops the front tire up on me no problem.
Is there a way that read AFR while dyno on two strokes ?
Yep. But it’s fairly useless. Long story why but ultimately power is what matters. This is true of a 4 stroke too, they like what they like, and once you find the max power setting, your goal is to replicate the indicated afr on the dyno to the afr you see on track. This requires a data system (we own and use) and lot’s of hard work and testing. The afr is a tool, not an answer
@@HPRaceDevelopment ah. Got it. Makes perfect sense! Optimum fuel to air ratio coincides with optimum power. What's your take on Smart Carb for performance? I've read that it utilizes positive air pressure to deliver fuel and also enhances fuel atomization but requires quite different order of operations for tuning AFR.
ah. Got it. Makes perfect sense! So, optimum fuel to air ratio coincides with optimum power. What's your take on Smart Carb for performance? I've read that it utilizes positive air pressure to deliver fuel and also enhances fuel atomization but requires quite different order of operations for tuning AFR.
@@1176hambone maybe some day we will do a youtube. I think there is a lot of BS involved in marketting on it and the other metering rod style carbs. Ultimately we have not seen any dyno power improvements vs a std carb thats jetted the same (when both are "jetted" or "fueled" the same) they run the same if the size of the carbs is the same
@@HPRaceDevelopment Roger that. Have you found any difference in power delivery curve, responsiveness in riding conditions, or adaptability to air density changes, elevation/temp etc?
Can you give me the ktm 112 sx
31
and then come the scooters that make 36hp on 100cc engines, with no low end power, but still powerful
on our dyno not 36....
but yes some very awesome scooter engine exist. This 112 on "most dynos" is close to 40
@@HPRaceDevelopment i would like to see you doing some videos with some "2FAST" or "LMR" engine!! Really like what you do!
@@arekkoski Be neat to put some of that up, but we'd need more time and less dirtbike work!
Street tire will give you 5-10 hp that you never use on a dirt bike.
I think the kids use all the hps you can give em
Oofff the music that starts about 5 mins is horrendous almost makes you want to x out
thank utube for ruining it.
86cc
32mm carb
50mm bore
The carb diameter is equal to the exhaust port or larger. Many millions in MotoGP two stroke development.
A 86cc can easily make 30hp. Programmable timing.
on our dyno??? I personally know who you would likely consider “elite road race and kart” builders with multiple world titles - and on my dyno - 30 hp 85cc only happens at 13500+ peak. While we have 85s making 30 - its not a moto friendly power curve. Sorry bud but apples to oranges. Go take your wisdom elsewhere