I own both the SL2 and the M10-R and agree with your comments. One additional feature of the SL2 is full weather sealing, so that shifts the decision to the SL2 when going out for adventure nature photography, plus the longer focal length lenses are a must. Still I love the M10-R and the small lenses, so I am always torn as to which to take. Yes, it is rough life with such hard choices.
Keep your SL2, send me your M10R, it ket me make use of your M10R and you will be more focused to take oicture with the most versatile camera you only own! ;)
Excellent video. On the highlight recovery: I think you should have used the same exposure on both cameras. The M10R meter was underexposing slightly, meaning the highlights weren't as blown to start with, hence recovery appeared better.
I watched this a few months ago and only on a second sitting fully appreciate the full value of your excellent methodical testing. The highlight recovery matters to me, so the M10R is vastly superior. Thank you again.
I have been using both handheld at low light - I found the SL2 was handling low light shots really well with the image stabilisation. That said I will always prefer the M - because it’s the M!!!
Thanks for sharing this video. I think by allowing the camera light meters to calculate the shutter speed you are not necessarily comparing photos of equivalent over and under exposures. To me, the SL2 is even more over exposed than the M10-R, so when you use equivalent highlight recovery settings, you are only partially correcting for the overexposure in the SL2 versus the M10-R. I would suggest re-running the dynamic range tests using full manual settings and mathematically calculating the exposures differences (as you showed).
Hi. I also have the SL2. Would you tell me your video settings? I find the contrasts much too harsh, especially when I film people. I've already completely removed the saturation and contrast in the profile. Am I doing something wrong?
Had several m series cameras including the m10, but with my eye sight not as good as it used to be ,have now got the sl2 and using it with m lenses is far easier to get focus and don’t find it to much bigger.love it
Highlight recovery: you can see at the bottom of the image the green foliage is quite a bit brighter on the sl2, so I think there was a variation in the brightness of the sunshine between the two exposures which explains why the sl2 couldn’t recover as much detail. Keen to hear if you have done any further testing however.
Great work, as usual. Regarding M10-R (and M system in general), if weather sealed, then I'd 100% agree with your closing remark that M10 is the right choice for the photography purist. But as it stands, it's not a tool I can solely rely on as a replacement for the SL2 (ignoring the SL2's other capabilities). So I 90% agree :-) Thank you for this video.
I think you are right when it comes to weather sealing, the SL2 is fully weather sealed and the M10-R (on paper) is not. Having said that, if you follow some reviews of people shooting M cameras under rough conditions, the M cameras are very robust. There are people who shut it in rain or in very cold environments. There are also people who dropped and partially broke it and continued shooting :) Thanks for the kind comment on my work, apprecate the feedback.
Great review again! It’s been a huge question for me to M10-R or SL2 until I did few tests myself at Leica Los Angeles. Without speaking about size of both cameras, first and huge difference for me, is a color and dynamic range quality. SL2 deliveries more clinical look, cooler color, more saturation, less dynamic range in mountains atmosphere, clouds, city haze, darker shadows, leafs look more flat. Which is means to me that I will have to do post work on images from SL2 and M10-R is just perfect. For my professional work in film industry post production it’s extremely important, if somebody wants just to share photo on Instagram it’s not noticeable. M10-R is what I need. Speaking in favor of SL2, it’s a fantastic camera, I actually prefer electronic view finder and 47 megapixels is great extra to have, I love body design that reminds me R4 camera, IBIS is great addition to have even while using M lenses, full weather sealing is important and video capabilities are top of the market today with ability to shoot LOG. Bottom line for me based on your review and my tests, SL2 is a very heavy camera, I will not be able to take it with me for a walk in downtown taking hand held pictures for more than 3 hours, it’s a more to use with tripod kind of camera or in studio, fantastic for people with videography needs. For photographers it’s M 10-R camera, with a exceptional film like color rendering, small size and weight.
Thanks for your comment, it is hard to decide which one to chose. There are shootings where I am very happy that I have the SL2 in my hands. As said in the video, the SL2 is a beast from technology point of view and is perfect outside in the field and in the studio. But there are clients who look for "that special photo", and here the M10-R is just so great. And there are also these times where I am just wandering in a location, keeping my eyes open and looking for an unexpected & unplanned shot. Also here, the M10-R is fantastic since small, non-intrusive and so capable to take the shot in all light situations ...
mathphotographer can you describe what ‘that special photograph” means and how the M10R is more likely to provide that? I am using the SL2 and M10M and am thinking about trading my M10M for the M10R. Thanks!
Great video, I’d love to see someone shot fast moving subjects with the SL2 such as motorsports. It shots 12fps but you seem to lose a lot of features like continuous autofocus, IBIS etc
Oh wow thanks very much. That was very informative. Only for photography, definitely take a look on the Leica M series. I bought the Q2 as my daily driver. Now that I also work more and more with it and I want more of that analog feel so the M caught my attraction. The try of recovering the highlights on the SL2 matches my experiences with the Q2. Coming from Sony overexposing was never an issue. If you use a Leica like the SL2 or the Q2 never overexpose more than 0,5stops. Boosting black on the 47mp Sensor is working pretty amazing. Recovering highlights is just not possible very well. For the M10R its much better but still not more than one stop. Anyway, If you want the full analog shooting experience in a digital body with a crazy amount of pixels, go M10R.
Hi I agree with other comments, the s/s comparison of the two bodies makes a lot of sense in practical photo terms. To me it looked like the colours of the SL2 images apeared a little more «fresh» - can you comment on that?
22:30 - I absolutely see the difference between SL2 and M10-R; and that's on CZcams. The resolution and detail in the green mountain - for sure, I see it.
The SL2 had superior color rendition easily seen in the side by side comparison, where the M10-R appeared flat and dull, almost hazy itself, the SL popped! I didn’t hear you mention that, however.
I like the idea of the M camera but reading more and more about needing to do things like calibrating the RF patch, etc just seems to make it more of a pain to own than just using the SL2 with pick up and play type of use
Thank you for a great comparison. I have an Sl2 and some zooms and primes. I also have an M10 Monochrom, I do however miss having colour when shooting with the M, I am contemplating selling the Mono for the R, how does the R compare with the M10 Mono? I suppose I could always use the SL2 with m lenses for colour on the street when size is an issue!
I would keep the M10 Mono and use the SL2 for color. The M10 Mono is maybe the most special best camera on the planet. However, if B&W is not the most important feature in your photographic life than the M10-R is the right choice. You can always in-camera or with post-processing convert color into B&W and the M10-R has it all.
Question...did you turn off the sensor stabilization when you were on the tripod? If you didn't it does introduce a slight blurring to the image. Sensor Stabilizer is only to be used hand held or can be if your camera is on a tripod and it's windy, as it will help with that.
I own an SL2 and the 24-90 zoom lens. I have 3 Leica M lenses the 35 Summilux, the 50 Summilux, and the 50 APO Summicron. I have ordered an M10R and am wondering whether to skip it and buy some SL lenses or skip it and get the M10 Monochrom. I would like to see a comparison between M10R and SL2 using M lenses only. Is their an advantage to shooting native M lenses on an M body vs adapted M lenses on SL2 with M to L adapter?
The M lenses work all fine on the SL2 with the adapter. There will be a follow-up video focussing on the highlights topic where I will use the same M lens on both, the M10-R and the SL2.
I typically keep noise reduction for long exposures on except sometimes in astro photography where I might turn it off to avoid that the NR is eating stars away. But also here, you can most of the time keep NR on for long exposures.
The highlight roll off on the SL2 is definitely better than the M10 but the M10R its a little bit better and pretty significantly better for recovering highlights. Having said that, I prefer the SL2 for the additional pixels, weather sealing, autofocus, and the sharpest native lenses.
You talked about the recovery on the clouds being better in the M10R. Do you think it may have something to do with the lens as well. M lenses are so much more better in my view than the L Mount lenses. What are your thoughts?
Could you do the same kind of comparison for the M10 vs M10-R but in terms of color tones and its fall of. This is especially evident when photographing portraits. Take a look at how the Hurlbut Academy reviews Professional Cine Lenses on CZcams. Evolutionary it makes sense that we can detect the slightest color tone variations in skin color. Also would be great if you could link to the DNG files you present in the Videos. From the Files I saw it seems to me that the 24mp Sensor has better tonality. I also see this as the next battleground for Sensor technology instead of the Megapixel race. Thats what I wish we could have from the PhaseOne Medium Format, 16bit colors with and amazing color transition. And as you also have the Phase One it would be great to see how far away the Leica M10, M10-R and SL2 Sensors are in terms of colors from a medium format. But please use a model for that, skin color tonality can't be shown on artificial objects. Keep up the great work :)
Something Else. As you have all these Medium Format and Leica Lenses and bodies. Could you come up with a test that quantifies "Microcontrast"? or the "Leica Look". Here are some good articles that go over these topics. Its much more then just sharpness. Peter Karbe from Leica was also talking about this in his 2 hours Interview recently. Would be great if this can be shown and other lenses could be rated in terms of Leica look. www.artphotoacademy.com/medium-format-why-on-earth/ www.artphotoacademy.com/microcontrast-another-look/ www.artphotoacademy.com/the-leica-look/
i have both Q2 and M10-r. Q2 sensor is not as good compared to M10-r. at ISO 800 you already see a noticeable digital noise doesn't look great. M10-r ISO 30.000 you get similar but this film like grain that looks very "natural". And dynamic range on M10-r is way better too. If you have no issues with price i strongly recommend M10-r. Hope this helps.
It is what it is. In my opinion, M10’s DNG is far superior than its JPEG file even without any touch. I have m10, m10p reporter, m10R, never shoot JPEG .
@@MrPeng no I meant the jpg previews in the LCD at high ISO the become kinda greyish and greenish. Coming from other cameras even M9 I wasn’t experiencing that in the LCD, I got used to it but have to tell people when they want to check their photos that it looks way better in the computer. As I said in only happens at higher ISOs, try it at 3200 and above
Hi Math, Great review comparing the 2 best of the line cameras... According to your experience, what would be your comment comparing the APO SUMMICRON SL 50mm with the SUMMILUX SL 50mm?
Summicrons are known to be sharper since they are optimized for sharpness! The Summilux has a more dreamy look and typically can be opened to f/1.4 where the Summicrons are limited to widest open f/2.0 (as a rule of thumb of course). Thanks for your kind comment.
@@mathphotographer thanks Math. I own the Summilux SL since not that long and I didn’t have enough opportunities to test it but my first impression compared to my APO 90 SL is that the Summilux is slower and miss AF few times. I really need to be precise in the AF point and use the Spot AF as much as possible to be sure the detail I want to be in focus is in focus. In terms of out of focus area and transition , being a 50 f/1.4 it is close to what the 90 f/2.0 delivers. This gives me an homogeneous rendering with 2 focal distances.
Yes, on the SL line-up the Apo-Summicron 50mm has quicker autofocus than the 50mm Summilux. I even think that such statement is part of Leica's advertisement for the Apo-Summicron.
Math the tests and camera comparisons you do are really good, they are real life, which is what photographers need, not laboratory tests, I in particular do not have a Leica camera, but I dream of an M 10, I admire you a lot and wow, how do you decide which leica camera to use out of so many you have? , I think the choice is more difficult than going out to take photos, although I would like to have that experience even if I don't know which one to choose. continue making real videos that really help to choose which camera is the right one for real people, good job Math
You are shooting at different shutter speed and expecting same highlight recovery on SL2... Also SL2 images looks clearly sharper when I check the water side and trees. This review looks like you are in love with M10R , that’s all.
On the M10-R the limitations are no longer true limitations, even for astro photography the range Leica offers in firmware is plenty of headroom to take great shots.
Yes - this was an option. However, my assumption was that Leica shooters will use the Apo-Summ-SL with the SL2 and the Apo-Summ-M with the M10-R, thats why I made that lens choice, creating the most realistic and to-be-expected combination of body+lens. Clearly, I could repeat the test with the same M-lens on both, the SL2 and the M10-R. I will consider doing so for next round.
Good choice to go for the M10-R if you already have a Sony A7RIV - I have the A7RIV too, not two bodies like you :) but just one body and it is an excellent system camera, especially with the light-weight GM lenses; my favorite is the GM 24mm f/1.4 when it comes to Sony alpha.
Would not say that necessarily. They both have their pros and cons. The M10-R is a camera I can take with me wherever I go even if my plan for the day has nothing to with photography. I hardly leave the house without a camera. And then, since the M10-R is small, compact, non-intrusive but very capable, it is the perfect companion for wandering around and spontaneously taking photos. In contrast, the SL2 is the better camera for professional shootings since it just offers more features as said in the video, autofocus is very reliable, image quality is perfect and, last but not least, it also is the type of camera clients expect for a shooting :)
Don’t you think that if you want to shoot sports or action the SL2 is the choice, and if you want to use long telephoto lenses for wildlife the SL2 is the choice. If you shoot travel, street, or anything else where weight bulk size are important the M wins out. I shoot M lenses on an SL and travel a lot, landscapes on hikes and street travel stuff, I often think the M might have been a better choice, but I decided to go SL just for the flexibly to shoot sports wildlife if I wanted to at sometime. The weight of an SL is an issue though. Shooting M lenses on an SL is a good compromise and what I did...after watching I think the M10r looks better. I also think some of the “Leica look” is missing from SL2 and Q2, and that why I bought an new SL before they were gone....
I think your comment is fair and rightly said. Weight is a big criteria, clearly, and autofocus & tele for sports and wildlife points towards the SL2. I think you can shoot sports with the M cameras but focal length is limited and not going as far as on the SL lenses and you will need to find the right aperture/sspeed/ISO combination on the M so that focus based on range focussing is locked and takes sharp images.
Interesting how the out of cameras colours between the M20R and the SL2 are different Although I find the output of the SL2 absolutely outstanding, it’s not enough to justify the difference in cost and weight over my Nikon Z7 with also wonderful image output The only real advantage for me is that I can use my M or older R lenses on the SL body
I had the R3 and R4 systems in the late 80s. THEY SUCKED. I had 2 body failures and a lens failed! Who ever heard of lenses failing?! I have a real problem going to an SL.
Bad experience in the past, fully understand. I shoot a Leica R7 and never had any issues, works fine and never lets me down. But clearly if such negative experience is still in your memory, its hard to think about an SL system. What I can assure you is that the SL2 and SL2-S are really robust and reliable. I shoot the SL2 for years and have no issues, had it with me many times on travel
You need to start somewhere ... generally you are right and typically I almost ignore the in-camera light meter or use it only as indication. Having said that, for that scene with that light it was ok I think. But anyway, thanks for your comment.
I own both the SL2 and the M10-R and agree with your comments. One additional feature of the SL2 is full weather sealing, so that shifts the decision to the SL2 when going out for adventure nature photography, plus the longer focal length lenses are a must. Still I love the M10-R and the small lenses, so I am always torn as to which to take. Yes, it is rough life with such hard choices.
Keep your SL2, send me your M10R, it ket me make use of your M10R and you will be more focused to take oicture with the most versatile camera you only own! ;)
wow, highlight recovery is amazing on m10-r
Thank you for this comparison, which gave me an idea about performing some test shots. I have the M10-R and the APO 50.
Excellent video. On the highlight recovery: I think you should have used the same exposure on both cameras. The M10R meter was underexposing slightly, meaning the highlights weren't as blown to start with, hence recovery appeared better.
I watched this a few months ago and only on a second sitting fully appreciate the full value of your excellent methodical testing. The highlight recovery matters to me, so the M10R is vastly superior. Thank you again.
I have been using both handheld at low light - I found the SL2 was handling low light shots really well with the image stabilisation. That said I will always prefer the M - because it’s the M!!!
Thanks for sharing this video. I think by allowing the camera light meters to calculate the shutter speed you are not necessarily comparing photos of equivalent over and under exposures. To me, the SL2 is even more over exposed than the M10-R, so when you use equivalent highlight recovery settings, you are only partially correcting for the overexposure in the SL2 versus the M10-R. I would suggest re-running the dynamic range tests using full manual settings and mathematically calculating the exposures differences (as you showed).
Yes, I have videos following both methods on my channel and my follow-up on the highlight discussion will be as suggested by you.
Thanks for your video. It was very helpful to compare between the two cameras. More attracted to the M10R.
Good choice if you are a pure photographer. If you also want to take videos occasionally, the SL2 is the more fungible choice.
Thanks very much enjoyed the comparisons
great review! would be interesting m vs sl2 vs cl too (with tl lenses)
Very informative. I will have to investigate “focus assist “ on the M10, as my close up vision no longer supports close ups.
Hi. I also have the SL2. Would you tell me your video settings? I find the contrasts much too harsh, especially when I film people. I've already completely removed the saturation and contrast in the profile. Am I doing something wrong?
Had several m series cameras including the m10, but with my eye sight not as good as it used to be ,have now got the sl2 and using it with m lenses is far easier to get focus and don’t find it to much bigger.love it
Indeed, the EVF on the SL2 is gorgious!
Highlight recovery: you can see at the bottom of the image the green foliage is quite a bit brighter on the sl2, so I think there was a variation in the brightness of the sunshine between the two exposures which explains why the sl2 couldn’t recover as much detail. Keen to hear if you have done any further testing however.
thanks a lot, this video helps my. Now I just have to decide M10R in silver or black.
Cameras aside that view is beautiful!!
Great video indeed. The SL is a great camera, but I love my M240 because of its simplicity.
And size and colour rendering. I think its picture quality is nicer than the M10.
Great video again.
Great work, as usual. Regarding M10-R (and M system in general), if weather sealed, then I'd 100% agree with your closing remark that M10 is the right choice for the photography purist. But as it stands, it's not a tool I can solely rely on as a replacement for the SL2 (ignoring the SL2's other capabilities). So I 90% agree :-) Thank you for this video.
I entirely share these comments.
I think you are right when it comes to weather sealing, the SL2 is fully weather sealed and the M10-R (on paper) is not. Having said that, if you follow some reviews of people shooting M cameras under rough conditions, the M cameras are very robust. There are people who shut it in rain or in very cold environments. There are also people who dropped and partially broke it and continued shooting :) Thanks for the kind comment on my work, apprecate the feedback.
Great review again! It’s been a huge question for me to M10-R or SL2 until I did few tests myself at Leica Los Angeles. Without speaking about size of both cameras, first and huge difference for me, is a color and dynamic range quality. SL2 deliveries more clinical look, cooler color, more saturation, less dynamic range in mountains atmosphere, clouds, city haze, darker shadows, leafs look more flat. Which is means to me that I will have to do post work on images from SL2 and M10-R is just perfect. For my professional work in film industry post production it’s extremely important, if somebody wants just to share photo on Instagram it’s not noticeable. M10-R is what I need. Speaking in favor of SL2, it’s a fantastic camera, I actually prefer electronic view finder and 47 megapixels is great extra to have, I love body design that reminds me R4 camera, IBIS is great addition to have even while using M lenses, full weather sealing is important and video capabilities are top of the market today with ability to shoot LOG. Bottom line for me based on your review and my tests, SL2 is a very heavy camera, I will not be able to take it with me for a walk in downtown taking hand held pictures for more than 3 hours, it’s a more to use with tripod kind of camera or in studio, fantastic for people with videography needs. For photographers it’s M 10-R camera, with a exceptional film like color rendering, small size and weight.
It’s a best side by side review for sure. Thanks!
Thanks for your comment, it is hard to decide which one to chose. There are shootings where I am very happy that I have the SL2 in my hands. As said in the video, the SL2 is a beast from technology point of view and is perfect outside in the field and in the studio. But there are clients who look for "that special photo", and here the M10-R is just so great. And there are also these times where I am just wandering in a location, keeping my eyes open and looking for an unexpected & unplanned shot. Also here, the M10-R is fantastic since small, non-intrusive and so capable to take the shot in all light situations ...
mathphotographer can you describe what ‘that special photograph” means and how the M10R is more likely to provide that? I am using the SL2 and M10M and am thinking about trading my M10M for the M10R. Thanks!
WOW, SL2 image is amazing!!
Great video, I’d love to see someone shot fast moving subjects with the SL2 such as motorsports. It shots 12fps but you seem to lose a lot of features like continuous autofocus, IBIS etc
Fantastic review
regarding overexposure you have to go manual to compare both sensors, otherwise the bias helps the m10r
Oh wow thanks very much. That was very informative.
Only for photography, definitely take a look on the Leica M series. I bought the Q2 as my daily driver.
Now that I also work more and more with it and I want more of that analog feel so the M caught my attraction.
The try of recovering the highlights on the SL2 matches my experiences with the Q2.
Coming from Sony overexposing was never an issue.
If you use a Leica like the SL2 or the Q2 never overexpose more than 0,5stops. Boosting black on the 47mp Sensor is working pretty amazing. Recovering highlights is just not possible very well.
For the M10R its much better but still not more than one stop.
Anyway, If you want the full analog shooting experience in a digital body with a crazy amount of pixels, go M10R.
Try it and you will love it :)
Hi
I agree with other comments, the s/s comparison of the two bodies makes a lot of sense in practical photo terms. To me it looked like the colours of the SL2 images apeared a little more «fresh» - can you comment on that?
22:30 - I absolutely see the difference between SL2 and M10-R; and that's on CZcams. The resolution and detail in the green mountain - for sure, I see it.
Molto,molto ben fatto ed esauriente.Grazie
it's been a few weeks - did you work out why the clouds were different ?
Great video! hello from Russia, i Have Leica SL2 it's a realy cool camera, but i want M10-R too ))
Greetings back to Russia, I was in Moscow some time ago and loved it there! Great scenes for photography. Take care and stay safe & healthy.
The SL2 had superior color rendition easily seen in the side by side comparison, where the M10-R appeared flat and dull, almost hazy itself, the SL popped! I didn’t hear you mention that, however.
Wow. It seemed the opposite to me. Go figure.
Thanks for another amazing video. Is it possible for you to do the same comparison between your X1D and the Leicas? Thanks!
Exactly!!!
I like the idea of the M camera but reading more and more about needing to do things like calibrating the RF patch, etc just seems to make it more of a pain to own than just using the SL2 with pick up and play type of use
Thank you for a great comparison. I have an Sl2 and some zooms and primes. I also have an M10 Monochrom, I do however miss having colour when shooting with the M, I am contemplating selling the Mono for the R, how does the R compare with the M10 Mono? I suppose I could always use the SL2 with m lenses for colour on the street when size is an issue!
I would keep the M10 Mono and use the SL2 for color. The M10 Mono is maybe the most special best camera on the planet. However, if B&W is not the most important feature in your photographic life than the M10-R is the right choice. You can always in-camera or with post-processing convert color into B&W and the M10-R has it all.
Thanks for your sharing. What about high iso performance and color tones of these two cameras
You will find videos on high ISO on these cameras on my channel.
Question...did you turn off the sensor stabilization when you were on the tripod? If you didn't it does introduce a slight blurring to the image. Sensor Stabilizer is only to be used hand held or can be if your camera is on a tripod and it's windy, as it will help with that.
The greens and blues seem a little more saturated in the SL2 images. You think that a function of the lens or sensor or image processing?
There will be a follow up video where I address your point. Thanks for the comment.
mathphotographer thanks. Amazing content. Really appreciate your methodology and diligence.
I own an SL2 and the 24-90 zoom lens. I have 3 Leica M lenses the 35 Summilux, the 50 Summilux, and the 50 APO Summicron. I have ordered an M10R and am wondering whether to skip it and buy some SL lenses or skip it and get the M10 Monochrom. I would like to see a comparison between M10R and SL2 using M lenses only. Is their an advantage to shooting native M lenses on an M body vs adapted M lenses on SL2 with M to L adapter?
The M lenses work all fine on the SL2 with the adapter. There will be a follow-up video focussing on the highlights topic where I will use the same M lens on both, the M10-R and the SL2.
Very nice comparison - On the SL2 Long Exposure, did you turn off LENR?
I typically keep noise reduction for long exposures on except sometimes in astro photography where I might turn it off to avoid that the NR is eating stars away. But also here, you can most of the time keep NR on for long exposures.
The highlight roll off on the SL2 is definitely better than the M10 but the M10R its a little bit better and pretty significantly better for recovering highlights. Having said that, I prefer the SL2 for the additional pixels, weather sealing, autofocus, and the sharpest native lenses.
You talked about the recovery on the clouds being better in the M10R. Do you think it may have something to do with the lens as well. M lenses are so much more better in my view than the L Mount lenses. What are your thoughts?
Possible, yes. I will do a few more tests and then get back.
@@mathphotographer Thank you. In my view the M Mount 50mm F2 APO is among the best glass now in the market.
Could you do the same kind of comparison for the M10 vs M10-R but in terms of color tones and its fall of. This is especially evident when photographing portraits. Take a look at how the
Hurlbut Academy reviews Professional Cine Lenses on CZcams. Evolutionary it makes sense that we can detect the slightest color tone variations in skin color. Also would be great if you could link to the DNG files you present in the Videos. From the Files I saw it seems to me that the 24mp Sensor has better tonality. I also see this as the next battleground for Sensor technology instead of the Megapixel race. Thats what I wish we could have from the PhaseOne Medium Format, 16bit colors with and amazing color transition. And as you also have the Phase One it would be great to see how far away the Leica M10, M10-R and SL2 Sensors are in terms of colors from a medium format. But please use a model for that, skin color tonality can't be shown on artificial objects. Keep up the great work :)
Something Else. As you have all these Medium Format and Leica Lenses and bodies. Could you come up with a test that quantifies "Microcontrast"? or the "Leica Look".
Here are some good articles that go over these topics. Its much more then just sharpness. Peter Karbe from Leica was also talking about this in his 2 hours Interview recently.
Would be great if this can be shown and other lenses could be rated in terms of Leica look.
www.artphotoacademy.com/medium-format-why-on-earth/
www.artphotoacademy.com/microcontrast-another-look/
www.artphotoacademy.com/the-leica-look/
Will consider, thanks for the suggestions!
Hi! I would love to see a comparison between M10r and the leica Q2. Great video!
For me I need comparison SL2 between Q2, it is may be strange but I'm choosing between these two cameras right now...
i have both Q2 and M10-r. Q2 sensor is not as good compared to M10-r. at ISO 800 you already see a noticeable digital noise doesn't look great. M10-r ISO 30.000 you get similar but this film like grain that looks very "natural". And dynamic range on M10-r is way better too. If you have no issues with price i strongly recommend M10-r. Hope this helps.
@@tjmanou6422 Thank you for this information, I'm thinking of buying leica camera and it is difficult to decide. What do you think about SL2?
@@tabletennisforfans7868 Hi Joint. What exactly do you shoot?
@@tjmanou6422 landscapes, street photography and sometimes portraits.
Great review. I am getting greyish greenish previews and jpgs with M10R but better raw files how do you relate to that?
It is what it is. In my opinion, M10’s DNG is far superior than its JPEG file even without any touch. I have m10, m10p reporter, m10R, never shoot JPEG .
@@MrPeng no I meant the jpg previews in the LCD at high ISO the become kinda greyish and greenish. Coming from other cameras even M9 I wasn’t experiencing that in the LCD, I got used to it but have to tell people when they want to check their photos that it looks way better in the computer. As I said in only happens at higher ISOs, try it at 3200 and above
Hi Math, Great review comparing the 2 best of the line cameras... According to your experience, what would be your comment comparing the APO SUMMICRON SL 50mm with the SUMMILUX SL 50mm?
Summicrons are known to be sharper since they are optimized for sharpness! The Summilux has a more dreamy look and typically can be opened to f/1.4 where the Summicrons are limited to widest open f/2.0 (as a rule of thumb of course). Thanks for your kind comment.
@@mathphotographer thanks Math. I own the Summilux SL since not that long and I didn’t have enough opportunities to test it but my first impression compared to my APO 90 SL is that the Summilux is slower and miss AF few times. I really need to be precise in the AF point and use the Spot AF as much as possible to be sure the detail I want to be in focus is in focus. In terms of out of focus area and transition , being a 50 f/1.4 it is close to what the 90 f/2.0 delivers. This gives me an homogeneous rendering with 2 focal distances.
Yes, on the SL line-up the Apo-Summicron 50mm has quicker autofocus than the 50mm Summilux. I even think that such statement is part of Leica's advertisement for the Apo-Summicron.
@@mathphotographer yes the construction of the AF in a small amount of element to move in a shorter distance is the key
Math the tests and camera comparisons you do are really good, they are real life, which is what photographers need, not laboratory tests, I in particular do not have a Leica camera, but I dream of an M 10, I admire you a lot and wow, how do you decide which leica camera to use out of so many you have? , I think the choice is more difficult than going out to take photos, although I would like to have that experience even if I don't know which one to choose. continue making real videos that really help to choose which camera is the right one for real people, good job Math
Thanks for your nice comment :)
@@mathphotographer Thank you Math for reading my comment and answering me, very kind of you
You are shooting at different shutter speed and expecting same highlight recovery on SL2... Also SL2 images looks clearly sharper when I check the water side and trees. This review looks like you are in love with M10R , that’s all.
In love with both :) There will be a follow-up on highlights in the next weeks, have a look then and let me know again what you think.
Looking forward to watching an iso/dynamic range comparison of the m10-r with the m10/m10-p
M10-P vs M10-R is already posted.
Can you say is Leica will remove the exposure limitation on the M-10R and Q2 ?
On the M10-R the limitations are no longer true limitations, even for astro photography the range Leica offers in firmware is plenty of headroom to take great shots.
mathphotographer Is there enough headroom on the Q2 for milky way ?
In my opinion, there’s no need to delve into technicalities. SL2 is about making images. M10-R is about your image.
You can use the same M-lense to test again?
Yes - this was an option. However, my assumption was that Leica shooters will use the Apo-Summ-SL with the SL2 and the Apo-Summ-M with the M10-R, thats why I made that lens choice, creating the most realistic and to-be-expected combination of body+lens. Clearly, I could repeat the test with the same M-lens on both, the SL2 and the M10-R. I will consider doing so for next round.
The colors on M10-R are much better - more natural. The SL2 look reminds me of Q2.
Me too)
I have good vision and I can clearly see the SL2 is a more clear image
:)
M10-R is outstanding
Great video! Both nice cameras of course. Too bad the m10-r doesn't have video possibilities.. Hdmi out to external monitor etc.
Think it would have to be the M10R with small lenses, ive a couple of a7R4s doing what the SL2 does already
Good choice to go for the M10-R if you already have a Sony A7RIV - I have the A7RIV too, not two bodies like you :) but just one body and it is an excellent system camera, especially with the light-weight GM lenses; my favorite is the GM 24mm f/1.4 when it comes to Sony alpha.
I guess, M10-R is now your favourite camera, Math.
Would not say that necessarily. They both have their pros and cons. The M10-R is a camera I can take with me wherever I go even if my plan for the day has nothing to with photography. I hardly leave the house without a camera. And then, since the M10-R is small, compact, non-intrusive but very capable, it is the perfect companion for wandering around and spontaneously taking photos. In contrast, the SL2 is the better camera for professional shootings since it just offers more features as said in the video, autofocus is very reliable, image quality is perfect and, last but not least, it also is the type of camera clients expect for a shooting :)
187 vs 41 M pix
neither are quite there for me yet, no phase detect on the sl2, ancient optical finder on m10r, think i'll see what the sl3 and m11 bring
Leica M 10 !!
exzellent video but really too many ads
They (bloggers) need to survive
Great video. You get a sub from me just for saying “peace, out”. Haha
Can you compare the SL2 with the Canon R5?
Don’t you think that if you want to shoot sports or action the SL2 is the choice, and if you want to use long telephoto lenses for wildlife the SL2 is the choice. If you shoot travel, street, or anything else where weight bulk size are important the M wins out. I shoot M lenses on an SL and travel a lot, landscapes on hikes and street travel stuff, I often think the M might have been a better choice, but I decided to go SL just for the flexibly to shoot sports wildlife if I wanted to at sometime. The weight of an SL is an issue though. Shooting M lenses on an SL is a good compromise and what I did...after watching I think the M10r looks better. I also think some of the “Leica look” is missing from SL2 and Q2, and that why I bought an new SL before they were gone....
I think your comment is fair and rightly said. Weight is a big criteria, clearly, and autofocus & tele for sports and wildlife points towards the SL2. I think you can shoot sports with the M cameras but focal length is limited and not going as far as on the SL lenses and you will need to find the right aperture/sspeed/ISO combination on the M so that focus based on range focussing is locked and takes sharp images.
The apertures for your over exposed shots are not matching! 3.4 vs 5.6
If you have to ask, the M is not for you!!
Interesting how the out of cameras colours between the M20R and the SL2 are different
Although I find the output of the SL2 absolutely outstanding, it’s not enough to justify the difference in cost and weight over my Nikon Z7 with also wonderful image output
The only real advantage for me is that I can use my M or older R lenses on the SL body
I had the R3 and R4 systems in the late 80s. THEY SUCKED. I had 2 body failures and a lens failed! Who ever heard of lenses failing?! I have a real problem going to an SL.
Bad experience in the past, fully understand. I shoot a Leica R7 and never had any issues, works fine and never lets me down. But clearly if such negative experience is still in your memory, its hard to think about an SL system. What I can assure you is that the SL2 and SL2-S are really robust and reliable. I shoot the SL2 for years and have no issues, had it with me many times on travel
The camera has no idea what its looking at so setting the exposure to 0 never means its the right exposure. This is a common misconception.
You need to start somewhere ... generally you are right and typically I almost ignore the in-camera light meter or use it only as indication. Having said that, for that scene with that light it was ok I think. But anyway, thanks for your comment.