I have been a CFI since 1979, and an Instrument Instructor since 1981 and I have to say that your presentation is very good. Everything you mentioned is well worth any pilot taking note of and learning from it. I would add that another thing pilots flying in mountainous areas should do is to visit with any local pilots who are very well acquainted with that particular area. They have a wealth of personal experience and information that can sometimes mean the difference between life and death in the mountains. Still, like I mentioned, your video and the way you presented your insights was one of the best that I have seen. Other "instructors" could very well learn a few things from you. Also, thanks for being a weather briefer. Too many times people don't give you guys enough credit for the job and knowledge that you pass along to us pilots.
Thanks for sharing this video. I’m a aviation forecaster who works at CMAC-W in Edmonton. I work the West sector and routinely produce the GFA31 charts, FACN39 forecast, etc. It is was informative to hear about mountain flying from a pilot’s perspective and the numbers that are important to pilots like 5500 ft ceilings at Hope. I enjoy watching your videos. Thanks, Daryl
Thanks for the video and high authority on weather. I had taught mountain flying in New Mexico and Colorado from 1974 to 2018 when I co-taught a seminar/clinic with Butch Washtock in Grande Prairie, Alberta. I was very lucky that Butch, from Vancouver BC, went first because a lot of the drainage ingress/egress I taught was not nearly as applicable in the BC mountains. My volcanic and fold/fault formed mountain experience with constant knowledge of the down drainage egress possibilities was not as valuable there as Butch's experience and good instruction on flying in glacially formed deep straight sided bath tubs. So I can verify your admonition to get specific instruction in the conditions we will be flying in. Yes, DA is a much more dangerous consideration, midday in summer especially, at Angel Fire or Telluride or crossing the many 10,000 passes in Colorado. Here we may easily find ourselves in conditions where pulling back on the stick will not cause any climb, but rather the opposite. I tell students if pulling back doesn't get us any up, try pushing on the yoke. Neither Vx nor Vy is ever appropriate for a high DA airport takeoff midday in summer. Only the basic level in low ground effect until cruise airspeed and then pitch up only enough to clear obstructions will jealously keep airspeed close to the vest and not trade too much airspeed for altitude. Too much free ground effect energy has been rejected by pitching to Vy after liftoff, energy that might have prevented the resulting mush or stall and fatality. There is too much attempting to climb in downdrafts and too much rejection of free updrafts in the futile attempt to maintain altitude in small airplanes. The wind is our friend down here. Small airplanes are safer near the upwind ridge where we not only have good lift but are well positioned both physically and wind management wise for the canyon turn back in the horizontal space available before smacking the opposing ridge as the valley closes (horizontally but not vertically) as we near the pass. The target in the 1 g turn at whatever bank angle is necessary to turn back is the bottom of the down drainage egress. Yes, 1 g if we allow the airplane to do what it is designed to do in turns...it will drop its nose if we relax back pressure and let it. Two things scared me in BC. I was completely lost, flying with locals, in the maze because down drainage egress was not obvious. And as Butch taught me, orographic lift was not smooth and reliable on the very steep ridges. Where I keep airspeed as high as possible down here (I may be at Vy just to maintain altitude (ceiling) in the 65-150 hp trainers at the point where I must make the decision to continue to cross the pass at 100' AGL or turn back into the down drainage egress. Again, the wind is our friend because it makes the wind energy that we can manage to our benefit most of the time. Ground effect, thermal lift, down drainage egress, and orographic lift are far more than 50% of the total energy available to small airplanes in the U.S. Rockies. Butch teaches slower flight, even with some flaps, and feeling out the air drainage where deep canyons meet other deep canyons in the maze. Much different than my usually guaranteed orographic lift. Thanks again for a great video. Come south and fly with us sometime.
Well said! Too much emphasis on Vx / Vy and not on the feel of what’s happening. Planes need power in mountains plain and simple…docile trainers can do it most of the time but not always. That’s why I moved up to the 180hp RV.
Great input, Dale. I have never been super strong on weather. I have time scheduled with an instructor tomorrow and you can bet that I'll ask for weather to be the primary focus. Thanks, Dale!
thanks this was good. I've been a passenger in a C172 a few times to Victoria, Chilliwack, Abbotsford, Vancouver and up to hope and remember my pilot going over some mountain advice at one point but never been past hope in my little time flying as a passenger.
Thanks. You are making good points. However almost nothing of what you are saying specifically applies to mountain flying. In fact a lot of what you are saying applies to any potentially hazardous outdoor activity. - Training - Having a plan - knowing the weather - knowing your personal limits ... The only thing that exclusively applied is density altitude and that even applies without mountains as long as the terrain is high enough. Even my home airfield at 2000ft can be critical in the summer because the grass runway is only 2000ft long. So it's not exactly what I expected from a video about mountain flying. Sorry
Agree to disagree I guess. Training isn’t generic, you should have specific mountain training…plan was more of an “escape” plan, weather in the mountains is way more critical than in the prairies and personal limits need to be adjusted in the hills.
I have been a CFI since 1979, and an Instrument Instructor since 1981 and I have to say that your presentation is very good. Everything you mentioned is well worth any pilot taking note of and learning from it. I would add that another thing pilots flying in mountainous areas should do is to visit with any local pilots who are very well acquainted with that particular area. They have a wealth of personal experience and information that can sometimes mean the difference between life and death in the mountains. Still, like I mentioned, your video and the way you presented your insights was one of the best that I have seen. Other "instructors" could very well learn a few things from you. Also, thanks for being a weather briefer. Too many times people don't give you guys enough credit for the job and knowledge that you pass along to us pilots.
Thanks Fred...can't think of a better compliment from a CFI!
Thanks for sharing this video. I’m a aviation forecaster who works at CMAC-W in Edmonton. I work the West sector and routinely produce the GFA31 charts, FACN39 forecast, etc. It is was informative to hear about mountain flying from a pilot’s perspective and the numbers that are important to pilots like 5500 ft ceilings at Hope. I enjoy watching your videos. Thanks, Daryl
Thanks Daryl I appreciate the feedback. Perhaps we will talk one day when I have questions!
@@HowIFly anytime you have questions, don’t hesitate to ask
Thanks for the video and high authority on weather. I had taught mountain flying in New Mexico and Colorado from 1974 to 2018 when I co-taught a seminar/clinic with Butch Washtock in Grande Prairie, Alberta. I was very lucky that Butch, from Vancouver BC, went first because a lot of the drainage ingress/egress I taught was not nearly as applicable in the BC mountains. My volcanic and fold/fault formed mountain experience with constant knowledge of the down drainage egress possibilities was not as valuable there as Butch's experience and good instruction on flying in glacially formed deep straight sided bath tubs. So I can verify your admonition to get specific instruction in the conditions we will be flying in. Yes, DA is a much more dangerous consideration, midday in summer especially, at Angel Fire or Telluride or crossing the many 10,000 passes in Colorado. Here we may easily find ourselves in conditions where pulling back on the stick will not cause any climb, but rather the opposite. I tell students if pulling back doesn't get us any up, try pushing on the yoke. Neither Vx nor Vy is ever appropriate for a high DA airport takeoff midday in summer. Only the basic level in low ground effect until cruise airspeed and then pitch up only enough to clear obstructions will jealously keep airspeed close to the vest and not trade too much airspeed for altitude. Too much free ground effect energy has been rejected by pitching to Vy after liftoff, energy that might have prevented the resulting mush or stall and fatality. There is too much attempting to climb in downdrafts and too much rejection of free updrafts in the futile attempt to maintain altitude in small airplanes. The wind is our friend down here. Small airplanes are safer near the upwind ridge where we not only have good lift but are well positioned both physically and wind management wise for the canyon turn back in the horizontal space available before smacking the opposing ridge as the valley closes (horizontally but not vertically) as we near the pass. The target in the 1 g turn at whatever bank angle is necessary to turn back is the bottom of the down drainage egress. Yes, 1 g if we allow the airplane to do what it is designed to do in turns...it will drop its nose if we relax back pressure and let it.
Two things scared me in BC. I was completely lost, flying with locals, in the maze because down drainage egress was not obvious. And as Butch taught me, orographic lift was not smooth and reliable on the very steep ridges. Where I keep airspeed as high as possible down here (I may be at Vy just to maintain altitude (ceiling) in the 65-150 hp trainers at the point where I must make the decision to continue to cross the pass at 100' AGL or turn back into the down drainage egress. Again, the wind is our friend because it makes the wind energy that we can manage to our benefit most of the time. Ground effect, thermal lift, down drainage egress, and orographic lift are far more than 50% of the total energy available to small airplanes in the U.S. Rockies. Butch teaches slower flight, even with some flaps, and feeling out the air drainage where deep canyons meet other deep canyons in the maze. Much different than my usually guaranteed orographic lift.
Thanks again for a great video. Come south and fly with us sometime.
Well said! Too much emphasis on Vx / Vy and not on the feel of what’s happening. Planes need power in mountains plain and simple…docile trainers can do it most of the time but not always. That’s why I moved up to the 180hp RV.
Great input, Dale. I have never been super strong on weather. I have time scheduled with an instructor tomorrow and you can bet that I'll ask for weather to be the primary focus. Thanks, Dale!
Best video yet! Also very much appreciate the work weather briefers do...thank you!
Thanks
thanks this was good. I've been a passenger in a C172 a few times to Victoria, Chilliwack, Abbotsford, Vancouver and up to hope and remember my pilot going over some mountain advice at one point but never been past hope in my little time flying as a passenger.
Thanks...glad you liked it!
Very good information and beautiful setting to pass it on!
Glad you enjoyed it!
Points well taken; I've worked out of truckee for a summer; always leave yourself an out
Thanks…for sure you have to have at least a plan B if not a C and a D!
Thanks Dale.....Really good stuff here :)
Very well said too Dale. Absolutely.
Thanks Murray...I try to speak as plainly and directly as I can
I know.
Have you ever flown a helicopter?
I've only ever been in one...over Niagra Falls about 25 years ago. Too many moving parts trying desperately to get away from each other!
Thanks. You are making good points. However almost nothing of what you are saying specifically applies to mountain flying. In fact a lot of what you are saying applies to any potentially hazardous outdoor activity.
- Training
- Having a plan
- knowing the weather
- knowing your personal limits ...
The only thing that exclusively applied is density altitude and that even applies without mountains as long as the terrain is high enough. Even my home airfield at 2000ft can be critical in the summer because the grass runway is only 2000ft long.
So it's not exactly what I expected from a video about mountain flying. Sorry
Agree to disagree I guess. Training isn’t generic, you should have specific mountain training…plan was more of an “escape” plan, weather in the mountains is way more critical than in the prairies and personal limits need to be adjusted in the hills.