Can You Use Canola Oil or Motor Oil For Knife Making?
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- čas přidán 27. 01. 2023
- Can you Quench a knife in canola oil or motor oil? What about water? I test different quench oils and water to see what gives the best results.
What I use for Quenching ⬇️
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About⬇️
Hi, Im Alex, im a knife maker and CZcamsr, based out of southern Pennsylvania and my youtube channel is Outdoors55. This channel started as an outdoor backpacking channel, but quickly grew into a knife/ knife making channel. Everything I do on my channel is family friendly. I primarily focus on knife / knife making videos but occasionally throw in something different. Thank you for watching!😀
#knifemaking #knife #knifemaker #outdoors55
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For entertainment only. I am not, and will not be held responsible for anyone re-enacting/ duplicating anything seen in these videos. Do so at your own risk. Do not duplicate anything seen in this video. Unless you are an adult responsible for your own decisions. Thanks
All my videos are copyright protected and not for sale. - Jak na to + styl
This video applies to 1084 steel. Different steel will give different results. Also check description for proper quench oil. Thanks for watching 🙂
would you consider doing a 2023 season backpack loadout? that was how i found your channel a few years ago, would love to see the changes made since then.
@OUTDOORS55 just to let you know I have reported the twonk copying your user name and offering packages
Thank you for doing all this work for us.
Thanks for watching 👍🙏
As someone who has been interested in knife making for a long time, I've watched a lot of videos on the subject over the years..
But yours are the ones that have really peeked my interest..
keep'em coming, buddy, and I'll keep watching..
Yup... 👆THIS👆
Thanks Alex 😁👍
piqued
Man, that was so much more informative than demonstrations just testing the edge of a blade. Thanks man!
Very interesting test.
If parks 50 wouldn't cost 200 euros a gallon.......
In the US its doable but over at the other side of the pond it's just expensive if it's in stock.
For now I'll keep using canola oil for the steel I am using.
Getting a good grain structure and good edge retention on my current heat treating recipe so if it ain't broke dont fix it.
If you use normal carbon steels, just use water and temper immediately. Make sure to normalize before quench and don't overheat before quenching, just enough to get nonmagnetic.
Garage science! My favorite. I really appreciate the work you do for us.
Thank You for your video here! I'm an FNG knife maker and tried quenching in used motor oil. I was having a tuff time getting my blades hard enough so a file would skate on the edges. So, after watching another video from a semi famous knife maker, where he edge quenched in water for afew seconds then dropped the blade into oil. I used this method and finally got the hardest I was looking for. Now I could continue this, but I did that edge quench out of desperation and would prefer to make my life easier, so I'll which to canola oil! THANKS!!
I used hot ( 140 C) Canola Oil for 1.2842.
Works absolutely great
I got 67 Rockwell C after quenching.
The Knife stayed verry straight.
My readings were consistand over the whole Knife
In Brazil many knife makers don't have access to quench oil so we have vast experience using wrong equipment lol.
"Standard" medium oil Canola.
Motor oil will vary and depending on brand viscosity, usually it's slow oil.
Your results match with this description .
The "recommended" oil for a fast quench is diesel.
It would be interesting to see results with "correct" Brazilian standard.
Interesting. Thanks for sharing. I'm getting into knife smithing myself and looking for cheap options that can still provide quality results.
@@saintmichael3879 Electric oven for heat treatment is quite expensive around here. If you have access to it it's worth it.
Heat treatment on forge has many many downsides, some upgrades can minimize it. Triple burner can help even out the heat. Temperature control with two sensors also help to get it right. It's still not ideal and probably only good enough for carbon steel but results are much better.
Fish tank water pump for active cooling to avoid overheating steel while grinding is the last cheap trick I know.
@@thiago.assumpcao outra dica que eu vi em um site gringo, é esquentar o óleo até uns 30-50°C para que ele fique menos espesso e possa resfriar a lâmina mais rápido (eu não sei se essa dica procede, eu não faço facas)
@@isaacfernandes4692 É isso msm. Tenho amigo cuteleiro e esse é o padrão mas é difícil improvisar óleo rápido. Mais fácil usar um aço com maior capacidade de endurecimento tipo o 52100. Fica muito melhor assim do que se usa um aço limpo tipo a linha 10xx.
As simple as this videos was! Fricken amazing thanks bro
Glad it helped!
Very informative video! I learned a lot thank you. Keep the amazing content coming.
Thank you! Will do!
wow super interesting.
i normally harden with water.
but never did i know it,s hardness.
thanks for the great vid.
Damn nice to see the difference between what is getting quenched , thanks for showing us all that good stuff , keep up the awesome work you do Outdoors55 , curious if there will be a broadcast on multiple different types of quenching soon ( eg. lard fattening , white grease, clean motor oil, dry ice , hot water vs cold water, and bacon grease) . Be really cool to see that's if possible to do . But other then that do take care Outdoors55 , be well !
Keep these awesome videos coming
Thanks appreciate it 👍
Yes please.
Yep another great video. Keep it up sir!
Awesome quick video! Super useful!
Awesome info!!!! Thanks so much. Will change to water. Been using canola oil (only 3 blades in this far).
I’ve used water on old truck springs. The knives I made were incredibly hard to sharpen. I only did the edges I need to find those knives and test them. They were made 20years ago just for fun. Plus I couldn’t find knives I liked so I made my own.
Great video and these questions always been in the back of my mind so thank you for the answer 😂
Glad your back to making videos I qunench mine in used peanut oil smells like catfish every time
This was interesting, I watched a video earlier this week that explained that the soft spots are caused when the boiling oil makes bubbles on the surface of the metal that insulates it and keeps it from cooling quickly enough.
Yep! Thats why Agitation is recommended to break that air boundary layer 👍
It's very interesting that water would be the best thing for a guy to use in a pinch!
OK, in my ignorance of knife making I ask - since water worked so well, why do people use anything else? Water must be the cheapest to use on top of this, apparent, good performance. Also (I'm full of questions), why used motor oil? Why not use new, nice smelling, motor oils. Or better yet use a great smelling castor based racing motor oil :)
Water is a very aggressive quenching so the risk of cracking is higher. If your blade is very thin or has sharp inside corners or just get unlucky water can crack blades. Proper oil will help in that area while still bringing full hardness. Some steels like 1095 are still probably better off using water as they need a super fast quench in order to get full hardness. While steel like a2 will harden in air. It's important to match the steel to the quenching fluid.🙂
@@OUTDOORS55 Thank you.
Those are all great questions Red.
Thanks for sharing 👍
Thank you for your sacrifice
For your info and that of other viewers, I have noted that I haven't been receiving notifications of new videos since your "little break" from posting and it was just luck that I found that you were posting again and ALL of these are shown as my having viewed them, so something is amiss with CZcams somewhere. Now I am getting notifications, but as all are shown as having been viewed, I have to go back and look at what I missed.
Yeah thats an issue youtube has had for a while not just with my channel. Not much anyone can do to fix it either. CZcams is just dumb sometimes 🤐🙂
The results with conola are good enough for hobbyists, though? Still mostly well above the range of work hardness for most types of knife edges. If you pregrind bevels to thin out that crosssection canola easily cools fast enough for full hardness where it matters the most. You should test this. You can't properly measure on bevels without some super accurate fixture. But you could simulate it with like a very thin piece of steel.
Yes, if the bevel is thin enough you can do that. Be careful for thin bevels that the air doesn't cool it too much coming out of the heat, though, as that can ruin the hardness. Use an equally hot metal bar to carry it over from the heat to the quench. And if doing thicker stuff, just use water and risk a mild warp. You can probably hammer it out anyways. Retained austenitize is really not something you want in steel. Always better to get rid of as much as you can and temper it down. Lower heat for less dissolved carbon if you need it very soft as you can embrittle steel by tempering above 450f despite getting softer.
I forged a thin bar of O1 into a little pairing knife and quenched it in an amalgamation of olive oil and vegetable oil heated to ~135 degrees. I don’t have a hardness tester but it passed the file test. Still though, this video does a good job displaying that a file test ain’t always it, this is as much a science as it is an art and should be treated as such if you want true quality.
Hey!! Great video! Thanks for this. Some technical charts name salti water for quenching. Have you ever tried?
wow the motor oil wasnt a surprise that stuff should be filtered out of every internet conversation regarding quenching but the others were a surprise...I think I might try some water quenching and see how it tempers out after
thank you
I use canola oil exclusively and it works great - for making some fine, fine fried chicken! Motor oil? Also works fine for me - to style up my DA hairstyle!
You sir are wrong. I just fried some chicken in used motor oil and it taste awful!!! 😆
@@saintmichael3879 Did you add hot sauce?
I used warmed peanut oil once with 1080. I chose it because of it's high smoke point over canola. I will use a proper oil in the future but would love to see a peanut vs canola vs parks 50 test *just* like how you did here.
Check out some of the tests by Larrin at KNifeSteelNerds. You'll never go back to vegetable oil.
@@johncannon3593Even water would be better. Risk the warp in favor of superior steel heat treatment.
Thanks for another scientific testing!
This is similar to Dr. Larrin Thomas' research. What you didn't test is different thicknesses and the shallow hardening steels like 1080 really fall down on is hardening depth. If you did this with 1/4" coupons and then ground halfway into them before the hardness test, I think you'd see even more issues with the canola. Thanks for the video.
Yeah I definitely agree! Thanks for the comment 👍
I remember you used to quench in canola oil in your early videos.
Thanks! Water it will be then. When I get to it
I hope you're prepared to deal with cracks and warps then
Thanks, short and really informative! What hardness would you expect here with a proper quench oil, like what you linked to in the description?
65-66🙂
The problem I've had with water is blades cracking! Even when using W1 or Amazon W2 they still cracked catastrophically!
I'd rather have a blade that's less hard but at least the edge is hard than no blade at all.
I've also had success with canola oil heated closer to 160 degrees Fahrenheit rather than 120. I bet you don't feel like doing it but I'd love to see what difference much hotter canola makes.
There's always a risk of cracking. Leaving bevels slightly thicker will help.
That makes so much sense: you don't want motor oil to be a fast conductor/absorber of heat because that would cause thermal differences throughout the engine block, with all associated material stresses those would cause. Block will crack, car will break.
Interesting how you casually just debunked a long standing myth among smithing youtubers, that preheated oil takes heat away faster... I can imagine that it absorbs the heat more evenly (in a uniform fashion because the oil flows and mixes more easily when it's a bit warmer), but you clearly proved that it's not faster :)
The warm oil vs cold oil may need more testing to say one way or the other. My sample size was only two pieces. I think you would need at least a 5 sample test with each, and average to see better results. There was no sign of any obvious difference between the two in my test here. Id like to test much hotter oil as well.🙂
@@OUTDOORS55 hey, that's a great video concept :) (thanks for the reply ☺)
Slowly but surely you're going to build a metallurgy testing and vetting lab hehheh ;)
It's true that sample size is important, but when the trend is not showing any difference, then a larger test will very likely also show little difference... I would even expect the larger test batch to have a lower variance because of the higher resolution.
I think you can follow this segment up with a knife hardness/toughness test. My hypothesis is that the water quenched 1084 would be more brittle than the oil quenched 1084. I predict the sharpened blade edge would be more susceptible to chipping with water quench.
I have a video testing bad heat treatments and toughness already. Higher hardness post quench gives better toughness at similar hardness levels due to the higher transformation of austenite to martensite. And less retained austenite.
I wonder if you could do a double quench? First in water then quickly into canola to take advantage of the properties of both?
Saw another video where the creator pointed out that the hardness drops toward the centre of a thicker piece of steel with slow oils as well. Having those pockets of softer steel on the inside is not what you want, especially in a knife where that may end up becoming the edge after a few years of use.
I tend towards a warm brine solution, tested some low menganese 1075 pieces and found that canola was not adequate for the low hardenability stuff, brine was much better. I thought that 1084 would be more suited when it came to a vegetable oil quench, and although it did harden somewhat in canola you could still dig into it after a file test. The brine did a much better result with 1084 too. There are so many advocating 1084 with canola for backyard heat treatment, but I have my doubts.
For sure. Water is just better, and cheaper. You might get away with oil if it's very thin and prehg pound bevel, but then you also have to worry about it cooling in air too much on the way to the quench. Simple steels need a quench time under a second.. 52100, 5160 and O1 have better tolerance to cheap oil but even still, it's a couple seconds at best.
@@mikafoxx2717 8670 might be ok with a canola oil quench. Experimenting with that steel.
Hey, I'm really liking your ultra light saw, you still making these?
I used canola for several years, but recently went to AAA and Parks 50 (depending on the steel) and will never again look back. I should have switched years ago. Canola just isn't fast enough to get good deep hardening.
I see the results from your tests now and get it but I have also watched your videos for years and have seen you get crazy results in your tests at the end with 1084 and canola oil.
While you can’t argue with the results from the test here it’s also hard to argue with what you were doing with the knives in those old tests as well.
These tests also showed that canola oil works a lot better than really bad oil :)
I don't think he ever did hardness testing in those old videos where he used canola oil. He only did the file test. And yeah, it's passable, but it's not going to be as good as proper oil.
@@Hendltonthin edge geometries can get away with it, but the spine won't be as hard or tough as it could be. Just use water and risk a mild warp. Proper heat treatment is what turns a mediocre knife into a great one.
@@mikafoxx2717That's exactly what I did. Although along with the warps, you have to worry about cracks, as I found out unfortunately. Not immediately either. I had a knife that looked fine and then broke after applying relatively little force to it even though it was tempered.
But the hardness was superb. I threw a couple of the warped knives against concrete as hard as I could and there was barely any damage to the tip and they didn't break or shatter. Considering they were the first handful of knives I ever made, I was really happy with them.
@@Hendlton What did you temper at? Did you do the recommended 2x 2hr cycles? I'm just going to start my first blades, but I've done hours of research, possibly too much.
I wonder if this behaviour of motor oil can be beneficial in making less brittle core of the blade while maintaining decent hardness on the edge?
Its too unpredictable imo. And with modern steels differential hardening isn't really beneficial. Unless you were going for a hamon with the proper steel and quenching technique which is more reliable.
How about lin seed oil? I'm not asking for a video, I trust your judgement enough to take your word for it
Can we get a poll on how sharp do most people keep their knives? Just curious if everyone keeps up on it or if you just do it once you can't hack your way through something at all.
Can you use sand? I've seen the Turkish coffee guys use it to heat the coffee pot and pretty sure you can do something similar with salt to cook fish, so that means it conducts heat well I suppose? might make an interesting video using different types of sand, salt, ceramic beads etc just for entertainment value! 💡
I have a question. With canola oil the lowest number you checked was 59hrc. Would tempering the knife to 58hrc make the numbers consistent?
Good question. I've tested this in a previous video testing bad heat treatments. I cant post a link but it's easy to find on my channel. Titled "The biggest lie in the knife industry". I tested several different heat treatments with the same hardness.
Doesn't a water quench cause cracks?
So water is the best?
I wonder if quenching in liquid nitrogen would give better results?
What was the temp of the water?
Hello Outdoor55. I want to start making knifes, but I only have an big old saw blade for knifesteel. Could you make a video in which you make a knife out of a saw blade please?
When is your website going to be back up
Love your videos...I just recently stumbled on to your channel and started seeing a few posts from knife point gear, which I assume is your personal brand, but I can't get the link to work, is this something you're still doing?
The website is getting some kinks worked out so it's currently down at the moment. But yes knife point gear is my "brand". Thanks for the kind works and thank for watching. Really appreciate it 👍👊
مشاركة رائع صديقي
Could you test 1070- 1075 steel ?
were can i buy the same electric furnace that you have ?
Great video, I remember years ago you used canola oil all the time for I think 1080 or 1084 steel, do you still think it is a good cheap alternative? Water seems to work better but I also remember another video where you said water would work but it has a high chance to crack the blade so I was thinking on a knife when the metal is down to a dime in thickness it would crack the metal easier. Do you think canola oil would harden the thin edge of a blade and leave the spine slightly less hard for impact resistance? The edge should cool faster than the spine kinda like the corners of the motor oil piece but I wonder if it would be beneficial or if it would just be a knife with a slightly uneven heat treat. Also. Have you tried heating the water like you do oil to try to keep metal from cracking? Idk if it would work or not but it seems to help with the oil quench. Thanks for the years of knowledge and entertainment.
Personally at this point id rather get full hardness with a water quench and risk the cracking, over using canola. The variability with canola is all over the place. Or just buy a gallon of parks 50 for $40 and be done. 🙂
(Warning: this starts out 🤓, and becomes massive-🤓in the edit..)
Regarding pre-heating the water, I'm not metallurgy or blademaker, but from a physics standpoint, I think the rate of temperature change always scales with the temperature difference, regardless of the material in question. The thermal conductivity of the material(s) in question also plays a big role, but for any given material, heat transfer scales with the temperature difference. -So warmer water would cool the steel slower- (technically true but practically false.. see edit below).
Edit: just saw from another comment that OUTDOORS55 observed no hardness difference between heated canola oil and cold canola oil, which seems to contradict what I said above, so I looked it up. What I mentioned is called "Newton's law of cooling" which states "The rate of heat loss of a body is directly proportional to the difference in the temperatures between the body and its environment." A more modern version is called "the law of heat conduction" or "Fourier's Law".
My guess is that this had no practical effect in this case because the temperature difference between the 1475F steel and the canola oil is huge regardless of whether the canola oil is 47F or 120F.. it's 1428 vs 1355 degrees difference (about 5%). I think the same will be true of water since it can't get hotter than 212F.. so the thing I said about heat transfer was true, and _technically_ the steel would cool more slowly in hot water, in practical terms it would make hardly any difference.
Again caveat that I'm only speaking as a physics nerd, not a metallurgy nerd. 🤓
@@adfaklsdjf Very interesting stuff you've said here, so thanks for that 😁
Which then made my (slightly weird according to my friends, and TOTALLY FRIKKIN OCD according to my ex... 🙄) mind think about the 212⁰f/100⁰c maximum temperature of the water being increased by pressure/containment, based on the pressure cooker that my Grandmother used to use back in the 1970s and 1980s...
So... how about if that water could be held at like 250+⁰f for the quench?
-But I have no idea whatsoever on how to get the hot steel into the 250+⁰f water for quenching without the pressure/temperature being lost... 😕
Any feedback from a physicist, whether a professional or a complete amateur like myself, would be warmly received because otherwise I might not sleep for a week with this (stoopid... 🙄) idea bouncing around my poor little brain 🤯
@@therogers4432 I think you'd need to do the whole operation in a pressurized environment (giant autoclave?)... once you've gone through all that effort, might as well use a pure nitrogen environment and then the steel wouldn't oxidize?
But with the 'austenite' temperature of 1475F used, even 250F water would still be 1225 degrees colder, so the steel would still cool extremely quickly and it still might not make a significant difference? 1475F into 250F water is still 85% as much temperature difference as 1475F into 33F water...
Checked a phase diagram.. at 22 Mpa (3190 PSI) water boils at 674K (753F).. beyond that it's a supercritical fluid and idk how that would effect things...
I've decided to ask ChatGPT about how someone might do something like this in a pressure chamber, and what pressure levels are feasible.. will report back...
@@therogers4432 ChatGPT says a person can perform tasks in a full pressure suit with life support system and etc. I asked it what the practical pressure limits are for this kind of equipment and that my application would prefer as close to the critical point of water as possible, which I'm sure isn't practical, so i just want to know what is feasible..
It said the pressure suit stuff can typically withstand pressures up to about 50-100 bar (725-1450 PSI), and basically agreed that the critical point of water is practically out of reach.
I asked it the boiling point of water in 80bar and it said 373C/703F. Not bad.. at that point we've basically halved the temperature difference vs "ordinary water".
I asked it for a fermi estimate of the cost of the equipment and it said $50-200k for the pressure suit stuff. I asked how much for a pressure chamber that can do 80bar, maybe 8 feet on a side... it said $100k-500k..
I didn't tell it about the forge. The suit would probably need active cooling as well for you to survive.
I'm going to go with the high end of its estimates.. we can probably perform your experiment for say ~$750k of equipment. I'm not sure about the research and labor cost but I'll swag that we should only need something like $2m of funding.
Note that I have no idea if any of ChatGPT's answers were accurate. It's known to be very confidently wrong sometimes.
What about using motor oil in a long trough style tank for an attempted differential heat treat. Hard edge soft spine ordeal.
Thank you for your Work! But i have a Questionen...is the Water warm or cold?
This was watm but not sure if it makes a difference
I use hot motor oil, seems to work fine. And ya gotta move the steel around real good otherwise it will just quench the the corners and edges and get these results. Been trying to get Parks but it’s real expensive and not overly available without costing an additional arm and leg.
Knife Steel Nerds did a video on this a long while ago, didn't they? Seems i remember the other thing about canola oil was it forms a vapor jacket around the metal that also limits the effectiveness of the quench
Yes I didnt get i to the technicalities in this short video. Only what works and what doesn't for 1084🙂
And that vapor jacket smells like 💩
So do moto oil still good for heat treat knife?
No
wait was there any difference in HRC of the colder canola vs the heated canola?
No, I wrote about that at the end of the video. They were essentially exactly the same🙂
Canola oil is absolutely a legit substitute for things like parks 50 if you don’t want to mortgage your house to quench. I’ve used everything from parks 50 to old deep fryer oil and honestly, there’s no negative to using canola oil. It also depends on the steel, obviously
Did you not watch the video?
Sorry, but this is just false info. Parks50 is $35-45 a gallon. You really would need to replace your canola every few weeks, so what are you saving? Also, if you don't have an hrc tester, all your results are in question anyway. There is science to prove canola isn't a good quench medium for 10xx series steels. If you think there's no negative, then sorry, that's just ignorance.
@@pumix it’s actually not false info, lol. I also have a metallurgy background and an hrc tester. For some reason I’m logged into a really old google account, but I’m a bladesmith
The test showed that the edges would be very hard, while the middle would be softer. To me that seems perfectly fine for a knife. And it was done on square chunks of steel rather than a knife that was already ground to shape. In that case the edge would be thinner and it would get even harder. I'd take a softer center over risking a warp by quenching in water.
@@Hendlton I don't get why you guys are so against spending an extra $20 on real quench oil that will: a) give you repeatable and better results, b) won't degrade over time. Also, it's NOT ok that the differing thicknesses harden differently. That's a big problem. For example, someone sharpens your knife back a bit and now its not hard.
I don't know if you have tested this but I've seen a few of the guys who practice traditional blacksmithing quenching with the blade tip facing North to keep it straight. Of course they are normally doing this with longer blades and with metal that's been completely reworked. Daniel Casey is the first person I saw talk about this and actually demonstrate it. I've seen a few guys since then talk about it as well. Just wondering what your thoughts on the subject are?
Its folklore and doesn't do anything. If it makes someone feel better about what they are doing then go for it. But there no scientific evidence to back it up. 🙂
@@OUTDOORS55 I kind of got what they were saying but I just don't see the earth's magnet field being strong enough to have that much of an effect on something so small. Yes it can turn the needle of a compass but that's a sliver of metal that weighs almost nothing and balanced on the tip of a needle. Sometimes I think if a person believes in something so much it can have an effect on the outcome. If you can't tell I've benge watching your videos to catch up. One last thing, have you ever watched the channel Project Farm? He does a lot of testing and did a couple on knife sharpeners. The results were interesting. Having watched your videos it just proved that most of those products can't come close to the method you have demonstrated. To me, that's value!
@@Jonathan.D I think the idea behind the knife sharpeners is for there to be little or no skill involved.. nothing to learn, fire-and-forget. I'm not saying anything about whether they achieve that, or the value of it, just that I think that's the idea..
I like "If it makes someone feel better about what they are doing then go for it".. I've struggled with depression all my life, and regarding psychiatric medications and the question of placebo effect, my view is "if it works then I don't care whether it's placebo effect or not.. if placebo effect helps then I'll gladly take it"
@@adfaklsdjf I get the placebo effect and I believe that it proves the power of the mind to heal the body. The physical manipulation of an object is different. Sometimes people think that doing something has a certain effect but in reality it's something they are doing or some other unknown reaction that's causing the outcome. The example that comes to my mind is the P38 Lightning. When it was first developed a lot of pilots were lost. The designers came up with all kinds of ideas as to what the problem was and how to fix it. They even skinned the back portion of the aircraft with a different thickness of material. While some changes helped, none fixed the problem. The issue was caused by compressibility due to the shape and speed of the aircraft.
As for the knife sharpeners one of the most expensive did the best job. However, you will save a lot of money by learning the techniques shown on this channel. There were a couple of more affordable products that did an ok job. Those would be well suited for many home cooks. There were other products that could actually damage a knife.
The steel is non magnetic at the temperature where it would be most prone to being bent by weak forces, and the force of submerging the steel in a fluid is well in excess of the force being applied by the Earth's magnetic field.
Quick question ! I love throwing knives and actually use love using a cold steel knife, and Im pretty sure it's 1080. What's the best oil for 1080 because I'm trying to make a few of my own
Parks 50 or straight water 🙂
I left a link to proper oil in the description 🙂
@@OUTDOORS55 sweet thank you sir!
@@OUTDOORS55 thanks man. I use to spend a lot of time learning how to make knives and completely just stopped once the pandemic started and I think it's time for some me time!
Just for peace of mind -- I know you said you ground *each* piece flat, but did this include the water piece? _fingers crossed_
Haha yes. I did the water piece last after i shot the video🙂
@@OUTDOORS55 Lovely! 😀
so the motor oil only made the edge hard but the rest was soft
isnt that a good thing for knives?
Even the edges did get to full hardness. And it's wildly inconsistent.🙂
@@OUTDOORS55 i bought a few tools to make knives and i learned so much from you!
i got alot of inspiration from you and im a long time fan!
Would love to see how these compared to Parks 50
Parks 50 gives consistent results at 65-66hrc. I did that testing in the video previously to this one.
👍. What is the right quenching fluid?
Parks 50
@@OUTDOORS55. Cheers. Just had had a look at price here. $100 / 10L. Wow.
I used veggie oil to quench but I heat it to 120-130
Would the thickness of the material have any difference in the results? say if it is a 1/8 shaped to a thin blade,rather than a full thickness blank
Yeah it would have an effect. With the thicker it is the more heat it retains. So thinner would be better if using a slower oil.
Does anyone have experience quenching in cvt oil? 5160?
If you are just getting started and dont want to invest into a proper quenching oil use canola and something like O1/ O2 or 8670. They should still achive a good hardness.
You would need a kiln for 01
@@OUTDOORS55 Because it needs more soak time? At least you dont get the usual plate martensite if you underaustenetize O1 a bit :D But i guess then its no longer at full hardness, and that was what this is all about.
What happened to the 4th test sample? I thought there was 2 canola oil tests.
There was no difference. I explained that in the video
@@OUTDOORS55 Sorry. Missed that. Very informative.
Get some parks 50 for that 1084.
Thats the point
Ok, so I hope you see this and can give me some good news.
I restored a knife that was in a guy’s collection that was burned in the Hawaii wildfire. He lost everything.
I really wanted to bring this knife back, and he was excited to see me be able to put it to good use. I’ve spent a ton of time on it. But I’m thinking the heat treat was comprised, as I am not able to get a sharp edge. It keeps getting very small chips when sharpening.
It’s Paramilitary 2 in
CPM 20CV.
You probably already know the question. Is there a way to re-heat treat the blade or even just the edge, at home, with no special tools?
Maybe since it got super hot in the fire, it only needs tempered again? If it got hot as a hardened blade is it even possible to re-temper?
I’m very mechanically inclined, but I don’t have a forge or anything like that.
Any help is greatly appreciated.
Many thanks!
Id find a machine shop with a hardness tester first. Unfortunately I don't think you can re heat treat 20cv without an anneal which youd need a kiln for. Depending on the actual temperature it got to it may be somewhat ok. But hard to say without hardness testing
Thanks for the reply.
I’ll check around for someone to test it.
I may throw it in the oven for a couple of hours to see if it makes any difference.
It feels hard when I sharpen it, but It’s just very brittle.
I appreciate your input!
@@OUTDOORS55
I ended up sticking the blade in the oven at 300°F for two hours, then let it sit in there to cool.
I put it on the sharpener today and what a difference.
Took an edge without issue, and felt way better while sharpening.
Now, to be fair, I did switch back to wet stones, and didn’t use the cheap diamond thingys I have from Amazon. Those things are uber inconsistent and bumpy!
But yeah, it’s cutting really nice.
Now to see what kind of edge retention I get out of it.
Thanks again for the reply!
But water will crack your steel when quenching.
Its way too risky...
Water for me.
never use old motor oil that came out of you car. lots of carbon deposits and dirt that slow down cooling . motor oil does two thing lubes and cools when it get old and dirty it loses both properties.
Just don't use motor oil period.
Hey buddy haven't got your recommendations in awhile
Yeah CZcams seems to do that..they are really neutering a lot of channels 😔
how about you subscribe and check the god damn subscriptions tab instead of waiting for random suggestions
@@lasdernas you not wrong
Why does motor.oil not work? Its just bizarre to me that oil would haevany difference at all
I wouldn’t recommend canola oil unless one is using something that hardens very easily like O1 or 4340 steel. They harden easily enough that canola oil will work ok. Motor oil is right out.
Ill have to test o1. Its a deep hardening steel with a slow cooling curve so it may work just fine.
@@OUTDOORS55 canola oil was touted as a good quenchant for years on many knife forums. It does have a very fast initial cooling rate but it appears to be too early. It cools very fast at first then slows down right when you don’t want it too. It turns out to not be a very good quench for most low alloy carbon steels.
What was the temperature of your water? I appreciate the extra information even though I am not really inot making knives but may make one for myself sometime. Thanks
Unrealistic ! Since a knife blade tapers toward the edge, surely the different thicknesses will cause a differing hardness. So would quenching in used motor oil give a hard edge with a softer spine, which is precisely the optimum situation, as in traditional Japanese blades? (I know that it's done differently there !)
What happened to your website?
Its currently under construction. Will be back soon hopefully 🙂
@OUTDOORS55 I'm glad to hear it's coming back, I really want to add to my collection of strops
What this video does not address is that different types of steel respond differently to quenching in water/brine/oil/blood/whatever, heated or not heated. The results given here are valid for 1084 only.
Yes, its a continuation of another video where i address that.
Blood !!! WTF ???
Look up tsujigiri. ;)
@@wolflahti412 I don't think tsujigiri refers to heat treating a blade ...... more the brutal feudal practice of testing the cutting performance of a sword on random people ..... but there is probably some Manga episode somewhere showing the forging of a mythical blade using blood to quench ;)
🤘🤘🤘🤘🤘🤘🤘🤘
👊👊👊👊
No
I have to disagree I’ve only used canola oil and all my knives have held an incredible edge while being extremely durable
There seems to be an obsession developing for gaining "peak hardness" even for beginners, when it's really not necessary, for a working knife I'd be chasing toughness over hardness, especially for beginners...... and only worrying about peak hardness after learning the basics for a bit.
Failure to reach peak hardness doesn't have anything to do with toughness. The harder the hc out of the quench the tougher the blade can ultimately be. Tempering will give the toughness. So a knife that is hardened to 66hrc and tempered down to 60hrc, will be tougher than a knife that is hardened to 62 hrc and tempered to 60 hrc. I have videos demonstrating this and id suggest reading knife engineering by dr larrin Thomas where he explains why this is the case.
@@OUTDOORS55 I get what ure saying and I appreciate your videos on heat treating but I forge my knives and then heat treat and I have brutally tested them with the canola oil quench and they hold an edge amazing and I also can’t get anything other than canola where I live so it works and I’m gonna use canola probably till the day I die
If it works for you and your comfortable with It keep it up 👍 Not telling anyone what to do just showing the pluses and minuses of the different methods.
Better than eating the crap.
I just spit on it
Why is my blood flammable?
🤷♂️🤷♂️
You're an alcoholic maybe? 🤷♂
This is terrible advice...... for most beginners using simple steels, canola oil is adequate to achieve an adequate hardness without the risk of cracking the blade.
You don't need to achieve "peak" hardness to make a functional knife.
I'd rather have a tougher but slightly lower hardness blade with no cracks/micro fractures ect, as opposed to a water quenched and super hard blade potentially full of cracks.
Only a handful of steels can be safely water quenched, but even for them it's preferable (for something as thin as a blade ) to use a fast oil instead
Id suggest reading knife engineering by Dr larrin Thomas. Toughness doesn't work like that. Lower hardness post quench doesn't mean higher toughness. Again id suggest the book. In this video we are referring to 1084 and olny 1084 as said in the pinned comment. And this is referring to water vs canola, NOT water vs parks 50. Id always recommend a formulated quench oil. So it seems you missed what this video was actually about. So no, this video is good advice but went over your head.
@@OUTDOORS55 Well I hope you're ready for all your "beginner knifemaker " followers to start complaining about cracked blades because of your recommendation of water quenching over Canola oil quenching.
No beginner should be water quenching unless they're getting their steel for free
Just spend $40 and by proper quench oil lol. No one is going to spend tons of money on steel and not buy the proper quench oil if they are getting cracked blades. Theres other problems at play as well. Perhaps you are grinding too thin pre heat treatment etc. canola is $12 a gallon so for 28 more your set. And cracked blades sometimes happen. Welcome to knife making.