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Why didn't we just put a K20 in it? | 650HP SR20VE Swap | SR86 EP 11 [
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- čas přidán 15. 08. 2024
- With our SR86 build having slowed a little, we decided to take some time out from our regular updates and answer a few common questions we get each time we release a build video.
First and foremost, Andre answers probably the most common question of all which is, why didn’t you put a K series engine in it? The answer is unfortunately a lot less interesting/controversial than you may be thinking. Simply put, this was largely because we had an SR20, we didn’t have a K series and we were working to very tight time constraints. Andre then further backs up our choice of an SR20 swap by explaining why the VE cylinder head doesn’t even compare to its DET predecessor and dispels the seemingly common misconception that a K series engine won’t have any reliability issues.
Next up, we discuss some of the reliability issues we’ve faced (if you’ve been following along with this build series, you’ll know there have been many…) and how we have handled/will handle those along with the reasons we went with the seemingly odd choice of a Garrett GTX 3076 Gen 2 turbo.
Lastly, we’ve had a lot of comments from people offering their thoughts on where our surprising gain of 40-45 wheel horsepower came from following a few minor modifications. Andre dives in and discusses the factors that have contributed to this.
0:00 - The same questions over and over
0:27 - Why not a K series swap?
2:35 - SR20DET vs SR20VE
5:20 - Spoiler alert...K24 build coming
5:36 - Why not a K24?
7:10 - But you won’t have any reliability issues with a K series...wrong
7:46 - Dealing with reliability issues
10:45 - Turbo choice
13:04 - Where did our extra power come from?
18:50 - Free live lesson
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#highperformanceacademy #sr86 #engineswap #build #sr20conversion #learntotune #enginebuilding101 #dontletthesmokeout #wiring101 #gt86 #endurancebuild
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Many people dont understand the challenges of endurance racing, any turbo charged engine at this power level have a high risk of creating issues. Its a different universe compared to doing some runs down the dragstrip. Keep this series going, its really interesting to follow !
Sure is, some of the weirdest shit happens in endurance racing.
Definitely agree with you there, endurance racing is hard on any engine. I can say a stock k20 can handle abuse very well as the Spoon Civic has proven. 400whp is "reliable" in a sense of stock engine being boosted and abused for long periods of time. I am sure that spoon had their share of problems each year too. That is just racing at its best.
Andre is so well spoke and explains things in a nice sequence. Love this channel
This is the best channel on CZcams. Fantastic video please keep them coming!
The smaller exhaust housing won't raise peak power, but maybe peak torque, or, as stated, at the very least, move it back in the RPM range.
Bless, guys. As usual, love the content.
I want to know where to get these 40hp ducks from… and how many can I fit in a 13b?
Since you mentioned head flow...I would love a course/series on cylinder heads. This seems to be the one area you guys haven't breached yet.
Dear K series fan boys. VVT sr20 was once the fastest 4 cyl drag car. And one of the fastest times attack cars (s13 MCA hammerhead.). We yet to see a a 6 second k series Honda.
Only a matter of time. Will happen but time frame is the question.
You realize that most k series with high hp are in fed chassis making grip a lot harder wed already be in the sixes if it was rwd
they have rear wheel drive k series civics but not reliable cant beat the sr built sr built k series at makes more power ask tekno toys Silvia
Dear sr20 fanboi. K series has a massive following globally, there are more drag and circuit cars around the world using them than any shitbox nissan engine, most conversion setups do K series swaps, not some crappy nissan engine - insert - Miatas, SW20 Mr2, mr2 spyders, RX7's, lotus Elise's all Honda chassis and still growing.. you can have your mega expensive mega custom billet block sr20 no where near the original engine fastest crown., when it comes to 97% of other applications and builds.. K series is king..
@@pswmetalmonkey
Have fun smelling my fumes and squinting to see my taillights. This gapplebees is on me.
Lovely explanation
Oil temperatures can be elevated by shear , we spent a fair bit of time talking to Castrol in the 80s to optimise clearances with this in mind and they recommended clearances based on the oils used , granted this was in a historic series but physics is physics, as always great content and I wanna see the mountains ⛰ 👍
Love the content. Thank you
excellent video.. really looking forward to seen the K24 turbo build. love your work!
I am in for this kseries build in a few years! Will be exciting to see what you guys do.
Its funny how the SR20 has seen so much sucess in motorsport. From road racing championships to drag and time attack. Yet people still have issues with this engine.
VE heads aren common swaps for the typical SR owner
@@kinslayergaming3159 Im sorry. Isnt the VE head a SR head?
@@conradsealy9603 yeah but it only came in certain JDM only cars, is FWD only
@@kinslayergaming3159 and? There are 600 and even 700hp det engines. Its not as if the DET heads cant make power.
@@conradsealy9603 they can make lots of power. That isn't the point I'm making. As Andre said ( personally built one with a friend) they flow great, valvetrain has more stability at 8000+ RPM, it is just better for making power and not spitting rockers when you hit a rev limiter by accident is a great plus
The 3uz motor would be cool,pity you didnt have a built 3Sgte sitting around Toyota reliability
Man an 8.6 liter SR would be nuts. Guess v8 or v10 with that sr based head. Title has me daydreaming.
U guys still running standard main caps?
You guys need to cut a hole in the roof so you can make the shifter a little longer.
Solid plan. Works well for you I presume? 😅 - Taz.
A couple of other questions for you. Will you be putting the v8 back in at a later date? Or do you want to stay in the lower capacity categorie?
I've seen smaller exhaust housings (only modification) increase power quite a few times, although nowhere near 45hp. There are two paths the exhaust takes to exit, split between the turbine and the wastegate. There are certainly physically possible combinations where you are much more efficiently extracting energy from a smaller portion of exhaust gasses while the rest are exiting the wastegate versus less efficiently extracting the same energy with a larger portion of exhaust gasses and less going out the wastegate.
There is a peak efficiency turbine housing size for a respective wheel size, RPM, and torque generated. Varying the housing size outside of that causes the efficiency to dramatically fall off.
What were the exhaust gas pressure differences between the two housings?
This is what I was referring to. My thoughts were that the larger housing would not be as efficient for the same low rpm speeds, thus to achieve the desired rpm for the compressor the waste gate would have to stay closed more to force more air through the turbine, thus resulting in higher exhaust manifold pressures for the large housing. It's quiet the paradox. So with the smaller housing giving lower exhaust manifold pressure for that rpm & torque required by the compressor, more power is made with the same mass air flow through the engine. I'm only speculating for this scenario as haven't studied the maps. Of course in all scenarios at higher flow (and rpm) the larger housing would be more efficient. And yes you are probably right, even if this does give more power, it probably doesn't account for all 45hp.
Note that turbine efficiency maps are different to compressor efficiency maps. Turbine efficiency maps are low on the left, and keep getting higher to right. Unfortunately Garrett don't publish their turbine efficiency maps, they just say max is 72%.
I think most ya K series question are from the USA guys since there only getting on the nissan band wagon now which is also pushing JDM cars out of range for most especially Skyline prices.
Andre, when you talk about your oil temperature concerns, what oil temperature are you targeting? I run Penrite 10 tenths in my 4g63 and seeing up to 110 degrees with the cooler setup that I run. I'm pretty comfortable with this for now but don't want to see it go a huge amount higher. I tend to only do shorter stints up to 20 minutes so not enduro like you. My water temperature is rock solid stable at 90 degrees.
Great video like always 👌
What have you done on the shape of the combustion chamber? 🤓 reducing the squish area?
Great video, but do an Audi O7k 5 cylinder. Iroz in California is doing big numbers with them in the rs3 . I would love to see you build one. Thanks for the videos Andre.
2:44 I died😂😂😂
I've watched the series from the beginning and understand the logic behind and why you used the SR20VE. I'm going to be contrarian and say if there _were_ a choice of anything, you should have run a relatively stock F20C with a turbo :-)
You obviously haven't seen the oiling issues with those things
@@coreyfreedom9859 oil issues solved easily with sump and oil pump upgrade.
@high performance academy hold on, when were the pistons swapped! I don't remember anything being said about the cylinder head combustion chamber being modified aswell?
They did mention the pistons were damaged when the head was damaged and couldn’t get the same ones in time
@@jj205mi Ahh ok, i must of missed that bit! I remembered seein the det in cylinder 1 on the bottom of the head but thought they said the pistons were ok. Maybe it was mentioned in a later vid. Thanks for the reply!
I think once they pulled them out there was more damage
The vvl is way more interesting than the k series.
Vtec yo
VVL yo ✌️
Love the vet build, will you guys ever drop a spec sheet to help others build them or will it remain a secret as long as you are in competition?
No secrets, most the build is in the course material and everything else has been covered in one or more of these episodes when it comes to changes since then. We haven't done anything with this build that others haven't already =) - Taz.
k24 crack the the block go look at boosted boiz
Over rated af
Why would you run shims at all just get longer valves?
It’s the cams..... the stock cams makes more power than the kelfords. That’s why you picked up 40hp.
Sick of these plebs banging on about 2Js, K series, BMW Supras and the like. 90% of you probably still live with your parents yet you think you can tell Andre what's up? He's forgotten more then most of us know about going fast.
Quack quack
Under Suzuki's sr seems to have no trouble thrashing k series
He brings 3 billit ve engines each year and usually needs them but mca hammer head always turned up with only the engine in the car big power but not tuned to kill
Why SR20 for a 350z and not the VQ or RB?
We don't have a VQ or RB here - Taz.
I guess my question, what's the plan with UZ build, if nothing do you want to sell the intake manifold? lmao
Can you guys do a section on going to shimless valve buckets
Set your tappets with buckets and shims then order integral buckets the same size,done.
@@chippsholdy9530 thanks bra
Dont think the Americans know but K Series engines don't have a big following outside North America. Even in Japan they dont swap K Series into EG anf EK civics etc.
The correct question is why you didn't just put a 4G/4B in it since you're the go to guy for these engines anyway...
I think its the conversion. oil pressure issues occur too and what not.
Why not do a 07k audi 5 cylinder. Iroz in California are doing big numbers in there RS3. I would love to see you guys do a 5 cylinder. It would sound sick. Thanks for all the videos Andre , and thanks to the HPA team.
Because they're not morons
@@chippsholdy9530 really? What's wrong with the 07k?
There's nothing wrong with the engine itself I'm sure it's great while it's running audis usually are.no one is going to put a high calibre and high cost engine like that in when parts are a pain to get and extremely expensive when you can get a readily available sr20 which has parts scattered all across the globe.thats like putting the audi r8 v8 engine into a corvette your creating more issues and work just from the design and platform of the power train it's not necessary.
@@chippsholdy9530 you can get a vw 2.5 for $500 all day long with about 50k on it . It will take 15lbs with stock internals and put out solid hp. True some of the parts are hard to get and expensive. That's why you make your own. With the exception of the head, it can be gotten cheaper than you think.
Yeah I don't doubt it mate your comparing apples to guavas though.Keep the euro motors in the euro cars.Sr20s and rbs are not as well built from factory as euro stuff theres just a shitload more parts available so that's why people use them in conversions such as this.The same reason people do LS swaps and not the audi r8 motors,no ones gonna go to the trouble to adapt something so exotic.
What taillights are you guys running
Tom's. Don't tell him 🤣 - Taz.
@@hpa101 🤫
If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, than maybe it didn't give you 45 horse power.
🦆
andre dont sugar coat nothing dude you use the sr because your a nissan guy simple dont let those honda guys feel important their not an sr coming to take their fwd all motor record soon check el cenizo Sentra and Jamie marsh sentra an theses are running stock cams sr to the world
Because k20 is overated....
Answe is simple because Honda sucks and will make the car very low torque !
What? New to Kseries are we?
Honda make some of the best engines around, especially when it comes to 4 cylinder N/A ones. K24 swaps are taking over the world, better get used to it 😂
There are a lot of 300hp na k series
U do realise the usa boys making 650whp all motor k series right. Sr's aren't even in their league
these guys are crazy they have sr20 right now in usa making the same hp all motor as any honda engine an running 9sec and 8 sec all motor with stock cams if sr gets more after market support with cams or even a bullet head honda engines are dead sr vvl is the best bang for buck