How to set the timing in a 289
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- čas přidán 17. 02. 2021
- I've been wanting to reposition the distributor on my stock 289, especially since the recent hard fuel line upgrade is riding too close to the distributor. You should be able to set the timing on your 289/302 whether you want to reposition it, reset it, or start from scratch.
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The car is a 1966 Mustang Coupe with a factory V8 and 4 speed transmission.
Shot with GoPro Hero 5, edited on Davinci Resolve 16.
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Great video and it takes the mystery out of the relationship of the distributor and firing of the cylinders. Historic fun note: I am the original owner of a 1965 mustang that I still drive to car shows. On road trips in the old days, if you were going up to altitude or say, if you got a bad batch of gas, the engine would either ping or hesitate. The solution was to just loosen and move the distributor one way or another until the engine "sounded smooth". No timing light needed and you kinda show this in the video. That brought back some memories! Thumbs up!
Thanks!!
Great video, very helpful to us! Looking forward to more!
Thanks for the feedback! You might need a Fastback in your future? ;)
Good tips. Great car. Thanks for posting.
Thanks for watching!
Love all the videos 📹
Thanks!
Yesss!! Got a shot of the car in the beginning
Teasing can be pleasing.
@@AndyKruseChannel 😭 spoken like the married man I assume you to be🤣. My wife says the same thing 🤣
I love your videos so much. I recently bought a 95 S10 with a 289 (I know, I know). But it's punched out .60 over and it's got roller valve train. It's kinda cool. I've used you videos to determine that the timing is too late or it's got bad rings. I'll find out once the engine cools off.
Going through the and fixing/repairing/upgrading our new projects is part of the fun, good luck! :)
I had this exact same issue. Did the same thing you did. But together the timing where it was supposed to be, it ended up right back where it was before I started. Right up against the hard fuel line again. So.....I guess that's where it's going to stay.
Yeah, I wish there were better options without going to some full custom setup. :)
Thank you!
You're welcome!
Great video. Of course it’s never easy for anyone trying to do it by themselves. Stripped the crank bolt, busted my knuckles, and chucked a wrench through the wall. That’s my luck though.
We learn best from our mistakes. 🙂
@@AndyKruseChannel just a rough day haha. Car is currently no longer running and parked until I can get around to it again. Great video man, appreciate it!
If you find TDC first, then all u have to do is lift tge distributor just enough to disengage the gear and turn the rotor to that #1 position and drop it back down. If the distributor is not fully engaging, just blip the starter utility it falls in. This job can be done in 2 minutes.
Yes, there is more than one way to set the timing. You do what works for you. :)
Hi Andy... I have a 289 engine bored out to 347. I need to remove the distributor because the vacuum advance housing hits the fuel line too. Once removed, do I need to turn the oil pump shaft too? I notice you didn't. Please let me know.
Nope, the oil pump shaft is not "timed" with the distributor, meaning it doesn't matter where you set your timing, the oil pump will spin as long as the distributor shaft is spinning (which is driven off the cam shaft). :)
@@AndyKruseChannel Thank you Andy. I had a couple people tell me i would need to do that, so I'm glad I don't...that was the most concerning part for me :). Thank you again, I appreciate your time and advice.
Hey Andy! I have a question, what was the size socket did you use for the timing adjustment
It's a 1/2" bolt holding the tab down on the distro. There's a fancy tool out there that looks like a bent 1/2" wrench which is perfect to have during adjusting because it helps keep your hand away from the fan. I'm thinking about picking one up. :)
@@AndyKruseChannel oh ok ty very much :))
Interesting method u use. So I always thought stabbing the dizzy on exact tdc but your method is to start at 12deg btdc. Please advise thx!!!
It was what I was taught.
@@AndyKruseChannel Fantastic! I will give it a try. 🤙🤙🤙
Sir, what is the purpose of test light. is this only for distributors with points?
Using the Test Light will work on cars with Points or Electronic Ignition (like what I have in this video). The light is on until I rotate the distributor to the point where it will "fire" the spark plug, and that is shown by the light bulb in the Test Light not being lit up. I probably should have described that a little better in this video. :)
aren't you suppose to disconnect the vacuum advance line? and wait for the engine to warm up?
I don't know on that one, I was never told that before. Doesn't the vacuum advance only work when the car is see revs above idle?
@@AndyKruseChannel I mean it was just what I saw on the written tutorials that's why am I asking... I dont really know
Hey Andy, you helped answer my question on your other video about the timing chain cover the other day. I got my engine to top dead center but the harmonic balancer fits on and says 30° and is perfectly vertical. I know it’s at top dead center because I felt the compression stroke push my finger out when I shorted the solenoid and spun the motor. Do the timing marks on the harmonic balancer matter if I know that the true top dead center is activated?
There are a couple of different timing indicator options with these timing covers, so you may need to make sure your indicator works correctly with the timing marks on your balancer. You can only put your balancer on one way, but a new cover/indicator may not point to same location on the balancer as your previous timing cover.
@@AndyKruseChannel yeah when it’s at top center and I put the balancer on the only way it can go, 30° is directly vertical north of south. I see your indicator is on your timing cover but my timing cover seems to be missing an indicator, perhaps I should just reference your indicator and go from there?
Your timing cover probably requires you to purchase the timing marker that installs under two of the timing cover bolts (pics online of how this works). You balancer is fine, you just need to find a timing marker that will point to the correct location at #1 TDC. :)
so when you move distributor when running, with timing light is mark at marker? or at 9 degrees?
Yes, with the timing light, using the mark/pointer to read the timing.
so "not" a 9degrees with light? tia
I put my pertonix on other day runs much better. so once back from electric shop, got new intake arriving today and son bought a 800 hp motor with blower other day, he's giving me one of his 650 holleys to top it, then want to time it your method, I'm sure you watched the video of guy with motor on bench, he just button everything up after the on and off light trick and fired up, no timing light, what you think ? further steps needed? I have stock 289,,,,,my distributor had hole no cut out so had to cut and rejoin wires, so shorten the wires at sametime. need to upgrade that maybe before adding intake
That's great to hear the Pertronix is running great. That Holley will be a nice addition to your setup.
As long as you're positive that cylinder number 1 is at TDC, you don't need a timing light to set your timing. To the trained ear, adjusting the timing to hear when the motor is happy is a piece of cake. However, a timing light will allow you to know where you are with respect to timing and it will allow you to set a specific timing if that is what you're after. I think I paid $10 for my timing light at a yard sale, they're not very expensive and it's good to have it as a backup option to make sure everything is running correctly.
Yes sounds good someday we’ll talk on the phone give me a call I’m on LinkedIn I think my numbers listed there talk to you later I’ll look for a Washington area code hopefully it would be Telemarketer lol
Andy quick question, any chance engine could fire if leaving coil wire on?
If the negative terminal was disconnected, the Coil should be "dead". But there's no reason to take that chance, the coil wire goes back on just as easy as it comes off. Look at it like insurance, it's for the "what if" scenarios that you can't think of. :)
@@AndyKruseChannel I figured something I just didn’t notice you had the cable disconnected it was just I watched some other guys do the same thing you know when they had that coil wire outside oh well hopefully my car will be here Wednesday if none of these tropical storms interrupt it down here in the south
How did you verify timing with the vacuum advance hooked up? And I thought the 289 is supposed to be set to 6* btdc?
The other end of the vacuum tube was not connected. I've been told it's 10-12 degrees, and I've done 5 engines that way in the last 4 years with zero issue. Plus, my engine builder on my latest build (347) said 12 degrees of initial timing. :)
@Andy Kruse I always thought it was 12 degrees until recently. I guess modified engines can be set to that but a stock engine I guess is 6. I just set mine to 12 and I'm having some issues. I might set it to 6 degrees of initial timing and go from there. It's a bone stock engine and that's the way they came from the factory so I'm told.
I set mines at 10 degrees is that alright or should I retime it?
From what I've read, 10 or 12 is fine, but I found more people leaning towards 12 degrees. But even if you start at 10, my ears tell me that the motor is happier at 12. It could be confirmation bias (because of what I read), and it could be the other components on my motor, but it does sound better. Using a vacuum gauge is really the true way to find where the motor needs to be, I just haven't purchased that tool, so I am continuing to use my subjective hearing. :)
how come you connected the vacuum advance to timed vacuum port and not on the manifold vacuum port on the carb?
The timed port only seeing vacuum when the throttle plates are open, and this is when the vacuum advance part of the distributor needs to adjust timing, under load.
@@AndyKruseChannel i see. i have inserted pcv valve and my engine runs rough. does my carb and/or distributor need re-adjustment?
@@gamwsas The PCV valve connects to the large port on the back of the Carb and will only have a bearing on your idling if it was tuned without it connected. You may find that you need to re-adjust your idle mixture screws at that point. :)
@@AndyKruseChannel noted and thank you for your time answering my questions.
Hey kruse great video, got a question. I got a 65 mustang with a stock 302 with bare bones lunati cam. what is the best timimg setting btc on my 302.I see you set yours 12 degree before TDC. i need to redo my timing got some spitting through carb after plugs are fouling. so i took the took the number 1 plug out found tdc on compression stroke. the only thing i didnt do at the time was mark the tdc on the harmonic balancer. i got a timimg light today and wanted to know if this would show a true advanced timing if i use timimg light to set timimg since i didnt mark it on the harmonic balancer. any suggestion is greatly appraciated. The interenet searches show all kind of numbers to set adance so im not sure whats a good sweet spot. Thanks.
Spitting through the carb doesn't sound like a timing problem, and fouled plugs tend to be from too rich of jetting. We'll save that for another time. :)
I think I need a few more details first, then we can dig in. Does your harmonic balancer have any tick marks on it for timing? Is the distributor still in the motor? Have you pulled the distributor during this process and therefore it needs to be timed as well? The timing light will light up each time cyl #1 fires and this is where the marks on the harmonic balancer (or sharpie mark if you put one) will be lit up and you can compare it to the pointer mounted on the block just about the harmonic balancer. The sweet spot on a stock setup for starting is 12 degrees. But your Cam pulls you out of "stock" and therefore you'll need to adjust from there. Once we get you dialed in, you'll here an audible difference in how happy the motor sounds as you advance or retard the timing each degree. Get me a little more info and we'll get you there. :)
@@AndyKruseChannel ok so motor was put in about 8 months ago at with old distributor and timing was just set at top dead center no timing to get the engine up and running. I replaced old 1406 carb with a 1901 500 cfm. Yesterday was the first time i just pulled the old distributor and set in a new one with points. I have 87 302 engine and set the point gap at .021. Now, my harmonic balancer is new and it does have markings on. I just went outside and looked at it the pointer is setting over the 10 degree mark but i have made made any timing adjustments at all. FYI i did not make any adjust to the new distributor other than set it in where it was previously time. where do i go from here?
I forgot one thing can I go ahead and mark 12 degrees on the harmonic balancer with a sharpie or whiteout now or wait because i wont be able see when the engine is spinning, im looking for reference points. also the car stumbles and hesitates when i try pulling off just crappy
@@Jayy_money22 Ok, so if you put the distributor back in and you're certain it was in the same place as the other, you should be good there. Mark the 12 degree spot on the balancer with a sharpie (but this is only a reference as you begin to adjust your timing, it won't matter later on). Put a wrench on the crank bolt and spin it from 10 degrees to 12. If the gap is not set correctly with the points, the car will not be happy and it may not even run. I suggest getting the Electronic Ignition from Pertronix (model # 1281) as it will work everytime and remove the need to adjust the points, it's fantastic (I also have a video on that).
So, it sounds like you got the car to fire up (this is a good sign), so now is when you adjust the timing. Loosen the bolt holding down the distributor in the block just enough so you can slightly twist the distributor. Be careful no to get it too loose. With the motor running and the timing light connected, point it at the pointing device on the block where it points to the harmonic balancer. Ideally (based on the info you gave me) the pointer should be right at the 12 degree mark and you'll see the light flickering because it is lighting up every time cyl #1 fires. Very slightly spin the head of the distributor and you'll see the tick marks move relative to the pointer on the block. You may need to go to 14 or 16 degrees before the engine sounds happy. If you have to go much higher than that, then I think the drive gear on the bottom of the distributor might be off by one tooth. If this is the case, rewatch my video about stabbing the distributor and how you have to fiddle with it to get the drive gear aligned correctly and the distributor facing the correct direction. If none of this works, let me know what you find out and we'll go from there. :)
@@AndyKruseChannel Thanks a lot kruse, yes my car fired right and I only used the points because i just bought the new distributor i will convert to Pertronix soon as i get this issue resolved. So for some reason my timing light from harbor freight wasnt working property so i will have to hold off until i figure out whats going on with. other than that here's what i found out today. So i got it idling but I am with you so far. Now the timing mark that i gave you earlier was incorrect here's. So i checked and the my harmonic balancer has numbers on both sides and doesnt indicate BTDC or ATDC. The number that provided the 10 degrees was underneath the pointer marker and you cant see the numbers when the engine is turning because they are underneath the pointer but there are numbers on the left side that are visible that look like were I should make the mark for 12 degrees. Other than this, i was able to loosen the distributor and slowly adjust to the left and right a little to hear the engine idle up and down. (Happy Sound) .I stopped here because my timing light wasnt working so I drown the car around the back yard a couple of times and stop there.
Hi having problem on start up on my 289.
Sorry to hear that.
What do I do if my test light doesn't turn off when I rotate the distributor?
Not sure, does it not turn off no matter how far you rotate the Distro? Meaning, go extreme and rotate the Distro by 90 degrees or more. If it still does not turn off, there might be a problem with the points?
@@AndyKruseChannel yea no matter how far I turn it in either direction. So I need to set the points with the fuller gauge?
@@tiltedaf247 First, double check the test light is going from the negative terminal on the Coil to the positive terminal on the battery. If that's not it, the gap in the points should be about 0.017 inches. If light is set right and the gap is set right, I'm not sure what else would cause your issue. It's hard to see everything through the message system. I rely heavily on the guys over at VMF. There's a ton of knowledge on that forum and I'm guessing you'd get a better answer. You can also upload pics which may help as we can't do that here. :)
What degree did you set it to for running timing? Using the gun.
12 degrees. :)
@@AndyKruseChannel what do you idle at?
@@tyleradams8575 750 rpms-ish. The internals are all stock, so the typical 750 rpm is where that motor seems to be happy. If it had a wilder Cam, or a stroker kit, a different rpm might be necessary.
@@AndyKruseChannel That is a super sweet '66 - man I am jealous! Just wondering if you have done any experimenting with the timing, to see if a little more or a little less would make the car perform better.
@@WorkinOnIt Thanks! Not yet, but I want to. I keep putting it off until I have some real power making components on the car. There's probably some value in do it with the parts I have now, but I might only pick up 5hp, which would really be difficult to notice. :)
Hello Andy! I'm working on the timing on my 66 vert 289-2v (2100) c4 so I dialed up your video. I noted you run a P-1 ignitor in your distributor. Since this video is two years old, I imagine you've upgraded that. I had to upgrade my P-1 to a P-2 out of necessity (I let the magic smoke out of my P-1). My question is, are you, or have you, done a full-on timing video, setting distributor curve, adjusting vacuum can, etc? Right now I run 12 degrees base timing at idle and 40 degree full advanced at 3k rpm and it is smooth, but I want to make sure I'm on the right track, reading spark plug arm markings/colors, etc. Keep up the good work! And know..."I'm watching you!"
I have run the Pertronix 1281 in all three of my classic Mustangs and never had a problem with any of them. I have heard others have had issues with this same electronic distributor, but I have yet to have any issues.
This video is really the only video that covers setting the timing (others may touch on it, but this is the one with the most info) and I've never dived into distributor curves. I did have to adjust the screw inside the vacuum advance, but I do not recall if I covered that in a video (it was quite a while back).
Along with that 12 degrees of initial timing, I am running 38 degrees of total advance. :)
@@AndyKruseChannel the issue with the 1281 is that if you leave your ignition on without the engine running, the module will overheat and burn out. Also, if you mistakenly hook up the leads backwards (as I recently did), you let the magic smoke out. So I upgraded to the P-2, 91281 module that doesn't exhibit either of these issues. I'm kinda surprised you haven't upgraded to the P-3, since it is the best and also includes built in Rev limiter. But ok, if P-1 is working for you, then get 'er done, son! Keep up the great work and I look forward to your next video! You've got one of the better mustang channels out there!
How to use timing light
Not sure what you're asking here.
I thought you had to be really careful and lift the distributor out slowly with the 289’s so that you don’t displace the oil pump rod.
No, there’s a small washer-clip thing on one end that keeps the shaft from pulling out. I guess if someone didn’t put that in there or put the shaft upside down during the oil pump installation, then it could pulled out. 🙂
@@AndyKruseChannel Good to know. I have a 289 in a Cougar that I purchased a new distributor for. I had heard some horror stories where that shaft can pull out and fall into the oil pan. As far as I know the engine is all stock so I should be good.
How many degrees is the 289
Sorry, I don't understand what you are asking. :)
8 10 or 12 degrees on the front pulley
@@rosemcbirney5123 When I set the base timing on my 289, I set it at 12 degrees.
I have a question! So why the finger plug test? Can't you just turn the pully to tdc at the start? Love your videos!
You can but you won't know if you're on the compression stroke or exhaust stroke. Plus, this video was also meant to help those that do not already have the distributor in place where you could see if the armature was pointing to the number 1 position inside the distributor.
That is correct, if you just turn it to top dead center it's going to be either the number one cylinder or the number 6 cylinder, which means you have a 50% chance of having it wrong
Are you running a flat tapit cam. I have a roller cam ......my ears are open and I'm rewinding . good looking car. They had me at 302 roller... Thousandths off 😅woooo close distributor sorry
Yes, the engine in this video had the stock flat tappet cam. :)
MSD wires cool
Yeah, there's lots of great parts out there, I just wish I could by them all. :)
Great video. However, the background music is too much of a distraction for me.
Yeah, I've figured out how to lower the music in some later videos and completely skip in others. :)