RE: Is the .38 Special Snub-Nose Revolver Adequate for Self Defense?
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- čas přidán 28. 10. 2018
- Answering the question that has been asked time and time again: Is the .38 Special Snub-Nose revolver good enough for self defense? I will tell you my opinion.
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Let's re-invent the wheel while we're at it. The .38 has been around doing the job for 100+ years now. Humans haven't evolved tougher skin. So, yes...it's adequate.
Bob Jones , you hit that nail right on the head, people now a days dismiss the 38 as weak , there are graveyards full of people that if they could , would highly disagree!
Yup, saved my butt three times during my career.
All you need is a 158 gr. lead round nose. The cops used them for years.
Any time someone asks if the cartridge is good enough tell them to stick their hand out and let you shoot it that usually shuts them up if you need a plus p then you should have gotten a bigger gun
Couldn't have put it better myself, Bob. Few things in life are certain, but I'm pretty sure that if someone pointed a sawn-off .38 at me, I would fill my underpants. I would say that makes it more than adequate.
The goal of civilian self defense is a break in contact, not to incapacitate. The mission is not the same as military or law enforcement, the focus should be on ease of carry and concealment.
Perfectly put.
Great point
I agree, sort of. The cartridge still has to have a “high” capability to incapacitate when you need it to and the .38 or +P does have that capability. Especially the +P loads.
If you want a gun that’ll just create a break in contact use a .22!
The goal is to stop the threat. If that takes a whole cylinder then so be it.
.38 is more than enough. sweet spot between 380 and 9mm. sw jframe has been doing the job forever.
georgia home boyy ju bought one
Yep 5 shot 38+p snub is the minimum, but more than enough. Also the easiest to carry.
My second officer involved shooting in ‘74 was w/my issued Colt Detective Special .38 snub, fighting three armed robbers in a small, dark parking lot. I had to reload under fire before it was over with one suspect dead, another arrested the next day at the hospital w/a gunshot wound and a third suspect who just surrendered. One uniformed officer was hit in the chest (no vest) but later recovered. Is the .38 snub adequate for defense? In my opinion yes, but for a citizen and not a law enforcement officer (LEO). If I were on the job today a modern auto loader would make sense. Good info Sam, keep ‘em coming.
And once in awhile a citizen would be better off with an auto if they knew they needed it. I have went to family member's houses to check thing out for them before, and having an auto out while scanning each room is a nice thing to have.
Gun Sam _Revolver Aficionado_ Agreed! My comfort level is higher w/my M&P Compact 9MM but it’s not always practical to carry.
Just curious do you believe just frames still have their place in law enforcement today as a backup?
@@GunSam I think the 38 special in my 442 or 642 or the 640 are great in a nice area. In certain areas in Chicago I usually opt for the 9mm M&P Shield or Compact. Today I carried a Model 64 with 6 rounds of Underwood Standard pressure 158 gr hollow point. The Box shows 853 fps probably out of a 4" so my snub will probably end up in the mid 700's. I Carry Comp II speed loaders and a speed strip and cross my fingers. I have Gold Dot 135 gr and they are accurate. I had family that used the old 158LRN in two on duty shootings... Both fatal. My family member came home that night and the second night also. Shot placement is king with penetration second.
@@oldcop18 That Shield 9mm is a great accurate pistol. I just carry two spare mags when I carry that.
It is adequate and it is more than sufficient.
of all centerfire cartridges on the market the .38 special has one of the highest rates of fatality and is statistically proven to be as effective as the big boys with 2 center of mass shots. For one stop shots in overall CC history the .38 beats the 9mm for the one shot stop (because it's been around longer in small handguns). Tests have shown that against meat targets the differences per shot from .38-.45 are minimal in general. The .45 launches a fatter round, which covers more circumference BUT it does little difference on vitals overall when compared to a .38 on a HUMAN target.
People have hunted and killed black bears with .38. That's enough for me in all honesty. Carry what you shoot best. I shoot my revolvers better, I draw them better and faster, and I've been practicing reloading with speed loaders and speed strips. Honestly the difference in reloads for me is maybe 1-1.5 sec difference between reloading my revolver and putting in a new magazine and racking the slide on my semi autos. I'm going to go for cover if possible, I'm not going to stand stationary without cover to reload, that's stupid. I also carry a little back up mouse gun if I cant reload in time.
I am more worried about realistic self defense and not hollywood shootouts I'm worried about someone closing hand to hand distance quickly. For the application of self defense in these scenarios the J-Frame is by far the best, bar none. If you need more accuracy at longer distances, cock the hammer. If they are on top of you push that gun into them and it will still go bang, no slide being pushed out of place.
You gave me goosebumps, damn
Protect this man at all costs. Revolver legend!
Absolutely. My father was a Medical Examiner and WWII Veteran and he carried a .38 Special Snub-Noze revolver which we affectionately called the Hand Cannon. As a Medical Examiner he performed countless autopsies on people killed with firearms. He obviously knew what could and/or should be carried...
Take one .38 snubby, add 5 or 6, as appropriate, 125 gt. +P rounds and go about your day your good.
Not all . 38 snubbies are rated for +P ammo. make sure it is ok in yours. You could cause damage to yourself or even worse the gun.
Listen. I used that caliber when I was in Law enforcement, it was good enough for all the Police Depts around the USA 🇺🇸 back then...
Nothing to add, you said it all very well. Long live the .38spl snubby!
Thank you much! Thanks for watching!
.38 Critical Defense works just fine.
I recently hit some hard times financially and had to sell a few of my handguns off, popular brands like Glock, sig, M&p. Now crazy thing is I used to be a semi auto guy, I’ve shoot revolvers and carried them so much, I kept all my wheelguns and sold all my semis. I kept my snub nose I carry daily and my S&w 686. Two favorite guns.
Same here I carried my Glock 30 I was most accurate with it. Had to buy a cheap Rossi .357 6 shot and got a LCP Max on layaway for 12 rds of 380 +1 which isn't bad but that way me and the GF are both armed!
How many years have law enforcement used 38 Special EFFECTIVELY in their daily beat? You can't argue with those numbers. The European countries may use different cartridges and actions (autos ), but when the crap hits the fan and you draw your weapon, it was usually a 38 Special.
In the Air Force, my issue weapon was a Smith & Wesson Combat Masterpiece in 38. When I went on Alert, my flight suit jingled from the 200 extra rounds I carried in my thigh pockets.
I always figured that if I got shot-down over Russia, I would shoot the first guard I saw and then have a rifle and save the 38 for potting rabbits. Unless a russian got within 12 feet of me. Then he would have been dispatched by the venom of the Smith.
I have fired most of the European police weapons and I find them lacking in the face of the 38.
Even the vaunted Browning Hi-Power will not match the power of a well-chosen round and pistol in 38.
Tokarev is nice but has heavy recoil and will shoot through your perp and two bystanders.
Haven't had any time with a Webley pistol.
So......for me, a 38 does the job.
I actually have people on my other videos tell me that the .38 Special is not effective because police and military do not use them, it's like umm, okay....they used it forever and a day and police more or less followed suit of the FBI in ditching the revolver. Doesn't make it uneffective, just means they changed and for the most part I agree that high capacity is good-for them. Not for me though, no one's going to die trying to take my wallet if I hit them once with the .38, they will probably go in other directions. Big difference over a cop trying to arrest a car full of gang bangers.
I think it's pretty cool when the Air Force used to use the model 25 .45 ACP revolver and the like. My brother in law passed 2 years ago and was retired Air Force and National Guard. I actually wear boots he gave me in some of my videos, the tan ones. Salute to the men who serve. I never did but there's respect to those who have.
No-nonsense, evidence based info -as opposed to hyper caffeinated "tactical" noise 👍
A 38 snubby loaded w some good plus p HP ammo is great for protection. In my mind its kind of the best one size fits all man stopping standard by which all others are measured. Some people may say 45acp. But thats more of a big dog sidearm. 357magnum in a 4 inch barrel is our classic Reaper. It's the best one hitter quitter in a combat caliber cartridge from everything I've seen and studied. That's what I keep.... 357 magnum. But i would have no worries if my 357 magnum was loaded w good plus p hp 38,s
I like my house gun to be a 4" .357 mag or 5" .45 auto, and my carry guns to be .38 Special/.380/9mm. I think that the .38 Snub nose probably has the best power to concealability ratio, but I don't envy the man who tries to break in my house at night as I have kids and a 13+1 5" .45 auto ready to go :) I may or may not grab my 4" 686 if it's day time.
@@GunSam We are pretty much of the same mind then. I also keep a 870 express magnum that I put an extension on where it holds 8. Cut the barrel down to about 20 inches and put a light on it Also has a side saddle w another 5 ready to go. All shells are 00B. I got an AR15 but i still prefer a Shotgun for inside house distances. I know it's not gonna spread much at all like some people think it might that close but the payload man...... It does alot of damage. By the way thats an excellent choice on the 4 inch 357magnum. You gain a significant amount moving from snub to 4 inch. But u can still carry it and it's not impractical like a 8 or even a 6 would be. I wanna get a good 8 inch revolver. I'm in my 38 but still have an affinity for revolvers. They are beautiful and practical. As well as powerful as many are chambered in the larger calibers. A good 6 or 8 inch 44 would be a nice next piece
Thanks for sharing this valuable information.
Good information, I certainly think the 38 special is adequate. They are also just fun to shoot.
Excellent info. Very helpful. Thank you. 👍
I appreciate your videos!
Sam totally agree with your analyzation of the 38 special rounds and yes you are an expert on the round.
My question is why does anyone buy a 38 special instead of just getting the same gun in .357.
The difference in weight for almost all manufactures is around 3 oz and the cost difference is usually well under $100.
The .357'will last a lifetime with mild loads and you never have to think about over pressured rounds.
You can load hot 38 specials or mild .357 and get a much wider selection of rounds and uses out of the .357.
You can even load non expanding hard cast rounds for use as a hiking gun to be used against black bear pigs and big cats.
I guess it may come down to a personal preference but I just don't see the advantage that some people see of the 38 special over the same gun in .357.
I have used all of the 38special rounds that you test and they work well however they are very expensive.
I went back to the Winchester white box .357 110 grain because they are a mild .357 load, they preform very well and run around 1150 fps with around 410 ft lbs of energy and they are very cheap to buy everywhere.
Just my 2 cents.
Please keep up the great work that you are doing to help all of us understand the difference in the rounds and calibers.
With today's metallurgy, there really is no practical reason to make a revolver in straight .38 Special over a .357 Magnum. That being said, you can get away with a lighter revolver with lesser materials if it's just in .38 Special. A good comparison is the LCR's. The magnum and 9mm version have steel in the frame, as where the .38 Special version is an aluminum alloy, and we see similar materials in S&W revolvers. Also, there are some .38 Special purists that would say that a straight .38 Special shoots better and is more practical than having a .357 magnum revolver that eats mostly .38 special ammo. When we look at 4" barrels, we tend to see a difference in ft lbs energy between the .38+P and .357 magnum of 300 vs 600 ft lbs or a 100% gain. In Snubby's it's more like 250 fpe vs 400 fpe, an 80% gain with brutal recoil to match it. Personally I think that the .357 magnum is better suited to a 4" barrel and .38 Special to a snubby. I would say probably that build material is the main reason why .38's still exist rather than only .357 magnum revolvers.
Big JJ when I started getting back into shooting, used guns chambered specifically in .38 special were significantly cheaper. I bought a 3" model 10 for $289 and a 5 year old model 64 for $300. The model 66 and 19's were about $200 more.
price, same revolver in 357 is 800 while in 38 its 400
I read your comment yesterday but didn't get to reply. Winchester white box is awesome for carry. I do the same thing. The shortest barrel I will carry is 3inches that's when most magnum loads are at the beginning of magnum speed!! I use to pay a 1.40 to 1.70 around for Underwood or Buffalo bore 38's. Training was a little expensive. In AZ it's nice because open carry is so excepted. I usually carry one of my 8 shot 357 revolvers or my 686+ . I want to try the Ruger Redhawk 4.2 in. I'm a Ruger fanboy and I have a number of them. Well have a great day!! Rich 🔫🔫🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸
Could be, they kick a lot harder. If your using your sights, hopefully, getting back on target is a must of course. I carry a 38Lcr off duty. Two speed loaders or speed strips to go with it. I do not feel under armed with it imho.
Liked the video, excellent information
Thank you.
Love your videos dude. You've really got me thinking about carrying a 38 revolver
Thank you. A .38 isn't too bad overall. In the real world it's not any different than a single stack 9mm in the overall effectiveness.
Well I got myself a Taurus 856 in 38SPL and I really like the revolver. It's easy to carry and I feel the rounds pair very well with it. Not like the Smith Wesson Airweight that I tried that had some pretty horrible recoil even in 38SPL. My hand hurt after firing 50 rounds with the Smith but no issues with the Taurus.
EliteSpanishGamer I have one of those also
I think S&W is better quality, but that's just me.
What rounds do you use?
Love my 856 too. I use Hornady Critical Defense +P rounds.
I love 357, but I think a 38 special +p load made for self defense would still be effective.
Both are good and sometimes overlap in energy.
Lovin' my LCP .38+p keep up the great videos and tests, Sam
Thank you. Just got done making some wadcutter .38's as requested by many to test.
You're videos Always deserve a like. I love this content....
Thanks!
I agree with you ... I feel that a snub nose revolver loaded with a good modern Jacketed hollow point made by a good manufacturer and loaded to plus p pressure is a good "minimum carry" .
For me the minimum is enough for my day to day life . I edc a LCR 38 .
I can totally agree there are options that are better "above the minimum" like compact semi autos for instance or full sized revolvers as another .. And there is nothing wrong with people carrying those at all in fact if they find themselves in a worst case situation they are gonna have a better shot at survival than I will .
People whom have a high threat lifestyle "police, security professionals, people whom need to carry large amounts of cash like shop owners , ECT ECT .. Might be better off using an above the minimum carry weapon .. If I were in there shoes I believe I would error to caution and carry a larger weapon .
But for myself and for most common guys I think the minimum is enough to provide the means to have a good chance "equipment wise" of defending ourselves against 90% of the life threatening situations that happen to the common citizen .
Thank you. I feel the same. I feel as well protected with a .38 as I do with a 9mm, but more protected with a .45 or .357, and less with a .380. Part of that is just intuition because I know what these will all do, or will not do to some degree.
Great Video
Thanks!
I feel that you’re doing the right testing for the 2in snub nose revolver it just takes practice to make sure that we hit the target and it works effectively for what it is
I carry .38 in critical defense pretty regular. Feel very protected. I like the 38 but carry other calibers. Good video and thanks for the information.
Thank you, thanks for watching.
Your channel is one of the few with decent info about wheel guns. I appreciate your input. I just got into revolvers from semi auto about a year ago. Still bounce back and forth but definitely hovering over the revolver more.
Thank you. I do the same thing but the opposite. Went from mostly revolvers to autos from time to time.
Good video, when I do feel the need to carry my 38 special snub it has hst ammo.
Thanks!
The 38 Special +P 110-135gr. rounds are good for self defense, with modern hollow point rounds. Of course practice and shot placement are essential to be effective as well.
Nice 38 slp. Mine has the firing pin on hammer saving up for new 38spl. Frame mounted firing pin +p. 🔫👍
Full disclosure, I am a former active duty Jarhead, LEO, and trainer. I have carried a weapon every day of my life for 30+ years. Cut my teeth on a 1911. In short, I am a .45 GUY!!! But, I can't argue with any of your conclusions. But, there are those of us who carry a 4" .38 SPL. I have a model 10-6 that I carry on occasion, with Gold Dot 125 gr. +P. It clocks right at 1000 fps. I never feel under gunned with it. In fact, I have some Underwood 158 gr. hard cast Kieth rounds that clock an honest 1200 fps. Hell, I can hunt close range deer with that!!! .38 is a hugely adaptable and capable round. Love it!
Standard pressure is enough of a man stopper. Always has been for more than 100 years. The +p was only developed to counter light body armor, and to push hollow points deeper (since expansion decreases penetration) into the target. In its intended range, the standard pressure ammo is more than adequate in hitting and stopping a target. I use 158gr semi wad cutter/fmj for my edc.
I wouldn't want to be on the receiving end of .38 Special. I own and carry S&W 642 and S&W M&P Bodyguard .38 Revolver and I carry Critical Defense +P in them. I like that +P moves a little faster and hits a little harder, I feel more confident with +P. There's a reason .38 Special has been around for over 100 years. It's nothing to laugh at.
I would say that question should be asked to all those crooks who've been stopped by the well placed shots from a 38 service revolver. But...they're mostly dead. :)
Thete is an attorneys name on every round you throw,so 5 or should be fine,if u train!!!Love the 38/357,
Shot placement is far more important than the cartridge. Even the 22 LR can serve you for self defense. Hit the assailant in center of mass and they will most likely break off the attack. Not always, which is why I train shooting two to the chest and the rest at the head. The 38 is plenty good even with something like a lead semi-wadcutter load. IMHO Love your channel and watch all of your vids - mostly on another account.
Hey Sam - I've researched this time and time again and have never gotten a clear answer, but why do some standard pressure .38 rounds have a higher feet per second and ft/lbs of pressure than some rounds labeled Plus P?
The only answer I have is that not all gunpowder is created equally. The +P only indicates added pressure with no guarantee of velocity change, however most of the time it does equate to that round having more velocity. An example might be a low weight to high charge powder, where the pressure is high for what's in there, but there's not enough bulk of powder to get that bullet moving. Another example might be a bulky slow burning powder that creates a lot of pressure, but most of the gunpowder is burned after the bullet is already gone. The powder will not make that already gone bullet move faster, but the chamber pressure will take on more pressure regardless.
I am not an expert on all things pressure so I can't be sure of the specifics, but I just know that like with anything else there's more at play that just pressure or burn, if one aspect is changed than the whole outcome can be changed.
Paul Harrell did a video recently about the 38 vs 9mm in revolver and had some of those same issues. It was the Remington green and white box that was +p but les than some standard he was shooting. I think that ballistics is fun to figure out.
@@Graydog-sx6le I don't know - it drives me up the wall with all the smoke and mirrors ammo companies utilize in selling their product. Thank the Lord for guys like Paul Harrell and Sam.
@@LionquestFitness one of the dirty Little secrets is a smaller diameter bullets=less friction, that being said all guns have slightly different dimension .measuring stuff can be important.
Another thing about friction is the jacket alloy and/or coatings, some are just more slippery. This is why a proper lead bullet will have the best performance. Yes it will!! take it to the bank baby !!
One of my fav channels Sam... Watch them all
Thanks a lot!
To all naysayers just check Lee Harvey Oswald’s autopsy
I definitely am taking the 38special as my go to gun.
Back in the day, I considered .380 ACP and .38 Spl +P as barely adequate. Essentially I wouldn't want to be shot by one, but I would consider defending myself with one to be an act of desperation. This was the early 2000s. Ammunition has changed a LOT since then. Back then I was carrying FMJ in a Walther PPK/S or Remington Golden Saber 125gr JHP in my 638. I actually still have five rounds of that left.
Based on new tech, various tests, and price point, I have a bunch of the Speer 135gr GDHP +P. I have a few boxes of the BB 20A too. I can be more confident with that stuff. Also, I replaced the stock grips with more speedloader friendly grips that also have a pretty light. So I'm quite a bit more comfortable with the 638 now. The Walther PPK/S is not something I would bother with carrying anymore. It's a 22oz gun in all steel and I can do better for its size and weight. I don't doubt that there are situations where the 110gr Critical Defense outperforms the Speer. But the Speer is what I've got and from testing it looks like they are very close.
I have had the most consistent velocity reading with the Hornady Critical Defense in all weather. It's always the same, about 1,130 ish in the 4" and 975 ish in the 1.875". The Gold Dot SB+P 135 has tested well at times, but out of the same box and a couple months apart, I have gotten 1,025 FPS and another time 900 FPS, both in the 4". This could just be luck that the Hornady has done this well, but I don't think I ever got under the rated velocity with Hornady Critical Defense before. Same thing with the Critical Duty, pretty much on with rated and a tad higher.
@@GunSam The Lucky Gunner Ammo website does show some lack of consistency with the Speer ammunition. I didn't scroll up to see how the Critical Defense did. For .357 Magnum, I have a few boxes each of the Critical Duty and Critical Defense. Since then, I have seen testing that makes me wish I just got the Critical Defense because barrier penetration is not an overwhelming concern of mine and the XTPs seem to perform better if no barriers are involved.
The price of the Gold Dot really sucked me in. I don't have much variety in the .38 Spl ammo. I have 130gr Magtech (and a couple boxes of Remington) standard pressure FMJ stuff as blasting ammo. As far as defense ammo, I only have a couple 50 round boxes of Winchester Whitebox 125gr +P JSPHP which tends not to do well on the meat target and the Gold Dot stuff.
This is all pretty much to do with looking at the .357 Magnum for primary carry revolver duty (I haven't tossed out my 649). I also have what should be decent 9x19mm stuff that I don't expect to burn up too quickly. The idea there is for the case where I decide to carry the Sig P938 in a pocket holster.
I know that energy is the maximum potential for ammunition. You've tested a lot of this stuff so I'll defer to your judgement. I still have a psychological barrier regarding light bullets. Even though it is in my head, I prefer something a bit heavier than 110gr. The Critical Defense in .357 Magnum is 125gr and the Duty is 135gr. I'm looking for best penetration in ammunition.
I understand the heavier bullet thing. Even though I like light .38's, I hate going below 230 gr in .45 auto. I know that where a heavy bullet is directed, it's going to keep moving in that same direction authoritatively. What's evident in .38 Special is that one has to choose one or the other in regards to penetration or expansion, as we rarely see both at the same time. I would say that the 135 gr SB really is the best one can do if they want a little of both, it's neither heavy or light for caliber and it's designed to expand well.
@@GunSam The 135gr GDHP bullets are not overly priced as components. It would be interesting to see what the optimal loading is for them. Well the optimal velocity. I'm sure there is a "sweet spot" where the round gives you a good blend of penetration and expansion. Too fast and it will probably fall apart and penetrate less. Too slow and it just underpenetrates. I wonder if the BB 20A is overloaded. The standard pressure variety might be better. I think both are the same price. Or perhaps the remaining core, when the nose does fall apart, is still heavy enough that magnum loadings would make sense (although I bet a slightly harder alloy would be better in a 4" magnum).
I will say that in .45 ACP, I find the 230gr is the way to go. In 9x19mm, I really do like the 124gr. What I don't have is a nice pile of data to back up those preferences.
I use 38 special too.
Good video
Thank you.
It is absolutely adequate. It's worked for over a century, humans have not gotten thicker skin. Recoil is mild and it will allow someone to stop an assailant and get away. Proper shot placement is the key. A few well placed shots are every bit as effective as a volley of fire from a semi auto. Not to mention, using fewer shots is less hazardous for all
Hey Sam what’s your opinion on the RUGER LCR .38 Special?
Gun Sam, love your vids. I have a vintage Charter Arms Undercover 38 spl. What would you recommend as an optimal self defense round for this gun?
Thank you. Personally, if it were me I would go with one of the top 5 companies for ammo as they all are members of SAAMI -so you can assure their pressures are correct for standard pressure ammo (which i'll assume you're looking for). That would be Federal, Winchester, Hornady, Remington and Speer. Out of all of those company's standard pressure hollow point ammo I have tested, the Federal Hydra-Shok 110 gr low recoil standard pressure ammo has performed the best out of a snub nose revolver for expansion/penetration/shootability etc.
The other standard pressure ammo I have tested that has performed outstandingly was the Buffalo Bore standard pressure 110 gr Tac-Xp. Awesome ammo, performed better than most +P ammo, however with them not being a SAAMI member, one has to put a lot of trust in them that they are telling the truth with their pressure ratings.
If someone was super worried about pressure, one could also use target wadcutter ammo for self defense as the pressure of that is darn near half that of regular jacketed .38 Special standard pressure ammo. Out of all the wadcutter brands, my research points to the Winchester Super-X as being the most powerful of the target wadcutters at around 725 FPS in a snubby, making somewhat adequate for self defense. Hope this gives you some insight, but it's just a small amount of my experience and opinion. Thanks for watching!
Winchester white box 110 g works ok
My favorite is the Speer GDHP +P 38 Special 135 grain for short barrelled revolvers. Hard to find and VERY expensive.
Actually, it's reasonably priced when you buy from somewhere that offers it in law enforcement 50 round boxes: www.targetsportsusa.com/speer-gold-dot-le-duty-38-special-short-barrel-ammo-135-grain-jhp-53921-p-54163.aspx This is the real deal, I bought my 50 round box from here.
I carry a snub .357.. On trail and hikes- i use .357.. In town and city?- standard pressure .38 special. Why?- a bullet is a bullet.. Human skin is not bulletproof. Everything is adequate above small rimfire at reasonable distance
.38 Special and 9mm tend to show the same results in ballistic testing, I think it's due to the more momentum of the typically heavier .38 Special bullet.
The only standard pressure cartridges I've seen data on that are suitable for self defense would be Hornady Critical Defense(slightly less expansion but more penetration than the +p) and the old 148 grain wadcutters(around 15 inches of penetration but no expansion).
I have noticed those standard pressure Hornady rounds as well, my sister has them in her gun. If i'm not mistaken they are basically identical in power to the +P in a 4" barrel. I do plan to start doing some wadcutter ballistic tests soon, as it's been requested by multiple people. One other standard pressure round that did perform pretty well was the Federal Hydrashok. I think I got about 920-940 fps in a snubby if I remember right on the 110 gr standard pressure round.
Good stuff. I'll take a .38 over a .380 any day but the 9mm is definitely out performs it in the same way .357 out performs 9mm. Yeah that's one of great things about revolvers they function with any ammo. I don't buy stuff like underwood and buffalo bore for my semi autos because I can't afford to shoot a couple hundred rounds of it just for a function check but with a revolver I only need to shoot a handful of rounds to check point of impact and get a feel for it so I'm just fine with it. I think it might be pretty cool to have a revolver loaded with several kinds of rounds that do different things so you can turn the cylinder and pick your poison for the situation, if its not your primary defensive gun that is.
I have made comment that the Buffalo Bore+P .38 Special is a good load, but it should be oriented as your first shot with different ammo behind it, for a lot of reasons. One, that ammo will creep out of the cases with multiple shots, and two the follow up shots will be better with less powerful ammo.
@@GunSam according to paul harrels lcr 9mm video crimp jump doesn't really matter, unless the bullet jumps right out of the case of course. For general self defense I agree rapid and accurate follow up shots are extremely important, that's why I like 9mm, but for me a snub .38 is a secondary that I would most likely use at contact distance so greater recoil won't really affect shot placement.
Crimp jump is more likely to happen on a lead projectile than a jacketed. Most auto chambered revolvers do okay, but the Yankee Marshall did a video a few years ago where he tested a 9mm revolver and showed what ammo does and what ammo does not jump the crimp. A revolver like mine is even more important to check for crimp jump due to its extremely light weight, it even says it in the manual of all of the scandium framed S&W revolver manuals to fire all your rounds but one, then inspect the last unfired round in your cylinder for bullet crimp jump.
@@GunSam in Paul's LCR 9mm video he's purposely cased crimp jump, what he called "super eruption" then shot a target, it did not cause any accuracy issue, but I imagine pressure would be slightly less.
Probably the biggest concern wouldn't be so much crimp jump causes accuracy issues, rather that either gun powder releases or the pressure is so low that a squib round could occur if that round is fired. Properly loaded jacketed ammo shouldn't normally have an issue, but if it was lead and loaded hot-the reduction in bullet friction with no copper jacket could cause it to happen. I have seen it happen even with revolver cartridges with a lead bullet, even with a very aggressive roll crimp. Lead bullets with no roll crimp is the biggest issue, however technically speaking any auto cartridge could be an issue. If it were me I would aggressively taper crimp any auto cartridge I intended on carrying in a revolver. We have to keep in mind that Paul is not an amateur shooter, so his grip and recoil control will counteract this problem. You get a little lady with a heavy loaded cartridge that doesn't have that recoil control, and we would see a problem more often.
Yes. Next question
I ordered 200rounds Remington 125 grain +p SJHP as this is becoming my new favorite round, but 100 of them were the 110 grain + p (the gentleman I ordered them from made an error and as he is a veteran I will keep them). My question is is this good snub nose load compared with the 125s? My guess is that these would have a better chance for expansion as they are a lighter bullet and using my chief's special made in 1976 with the 1 7/8th inch barrel and the old Magna grips the recoil should be less. Any thoughts?
It is good ammo. Going from memory, in a snub the 110 gr standard pressure and the 125 gr+P had basically identical velocity, the +P was just enough to get that 15 extra grains up to full speed which I think both did about 900 FPS in the J-frame. If I remember right the 125+P penetrated into jug 3 and dented the back as where the 110 gr did the same but in jug two indicating 12" VS 15" in ballistic gel. Honestly though this isn't a deal breaker as with the soft lead tip, in a real "target" the difference would be minimal. At least with the 110 gr the recoil is a tad lower.
@@GunSam Kind of what I figured. Thanks again! Gotta love a .38 special expert! 😁
Sam..what is your opinion on the charter arms .45 acp Revolver for daily carry ?
I don't have any experience with them. My first thought is that the .45 ACP is a good cartridge and loses less power than some cartridges out of short barrels. I think overall it would be a decent choice.
Well if you want to be logical about this, a Club is adequate for self defense! Anyone who knows anything about guns, knows that a snub nose revolver is more than adequate for self defense. So let's go on to the next question ....................!!!!!
I am 77 years old and I just purchased a Smith & Wesson model 637 snubnose revolver. I have very bad arthritis in my hands and I want to get a round that I can use in the 38 it won’t destroy my hands. So what I am asking is what would be a good round that I could shoot out of a 38 it would be 80 a light load.
I shot a carjacker 3 times with 3 standard 9mm rounds. It stopped him for sure. He actually live. But.. I think a 38 with hollow points would have worked better. Hollow point bullets are key to damaging and stopping an attacker. Full jacket bullets are for targets not stopping attackers.
In ballistic testing what I see is 9mm, .38 Special, low end .357 mag and so on are near identical to what they do to my ballistic target. The difference is hard barriers as at that point .38 Special penetrates less metal than 9mm.
Gun Sam _Revolver Aficionado_ probably a 9mm has better penetration, but on a human body I think a 38 hollow point would really mess a persons insides up. I would personally still choose a 9mm hollow points with 16 rounds ready to go when in a panicked gun fight. What would you choose if it were your girlfriend or sister? A small hammerless 38 or something else?
Feel confident carrying my 442. If it doesn't get the job done then oh well.
You sound confident with your relationship with your maker. Either way it's a good outlook, better to not worry about the one in a million as opposed to stressing about the unlikely.
Oh well its only dying, no biggie...
Sometimes undue stress can kill you just as dead at a young age.
Silent Space Not likely to die because you run out of bullets. Lots of other ways to die.
Same, as long as I am able to get shots on target in a life or death situation I’m confident in the ole 442 as well. If 5 won’t do it then yea, oh well. I tried. 😂🤷♂️
Sure expansion is important...but - if you aren't hitting the intended target it doesn't matter what you carry. Pick a gun and practice a lot and get proficient and confident. Great argument for the snubs is a lot of attacks may end up on the ground or going hands on.
agree with previous comment 38 special has protected many,killed many! and continues to kill out of any firearm.
Hey Sam, have you ever tried 158 grain semi jacketed 38 specials by company called monarch if you have please let me know what the data is. I can get a box of those for like about $16 and I was just wondering was I reaching a speed that would expand the hollow points? PS I'm shooting these out of a 2in Taurus model 85 and a Smith & Wesson 1 7/8 in model 638 bodyguard
I don't know anything about them, but while researching it I found a video from one of my friends on here, and he has a video about them: czcams.com/video/5NEoDa1zojo/video.html
Heck yeah - that is a very good video by Leeman357!@@GunSam
If anybody ask you that, just tell them to watch The Forensic Files for a while. It seems like every time the murder weapon is a 38 special revolver. And when it's not a 38 special revolver, it's a .22 caliber handgun. I've never seen a 10 mm or 45 auto used for the crime.
I used to watch it years ago. From what I remember there were a lot of the S&W SD9 VE/SD40 VE back then. I have seen some police seized weapons and what you see 99% of the time are really beat up shotguns with electrical tape on them, birdshot shells and cheap pistols with random ammo, like some FMJ ammo, some corroded hollow points that don't match etc. Like they don't have a clue what they are doing.
@@GunSam nobody buys expensive guns to commit crimes because you're going to have to get rid of them afterwards. Lol! But they all kill, that's for sure. But in all seriousness the 38 special, even non +p, is more than adequate for self defense. People mostly based their opinions on numbers. This round has twice as much energy as this other one, or this caliber is much faster, etc. But if you just pick up a 38 special revolver and shoot it with any commercial round and compare the recoil and the noise (and the pain also) with 9 mm and .45, you would never think that it's not good enough for self defense. Human bodies are not that hard. I have a Bodyguard 38 spl +P and I love that gun. It has the best grip of all the J frames in my opinion. Very easy to carry in a desantis pocket holster and easy to grip with all your fingers. I've shot at least a couple thousand rounds through it and dry fired it even more, so the trigger feels great. I really enjoy shooting that gun.
Haha I just watched one with a .25 and another a dude was target practicing with his .44 mag and if I remember right his backstop was nonexistent but thought he was far out there. I think close to a mile away a family was having a picnic at a park/pond and one hit the grandpa killing him. He was a felon in possession so that was basically a murder charge, can't fully remember. Bedroom TV is always tuned into the ID channel for background noise
@@dannysllrs Damn, I want to watch that episode. At least it hit the grandpa 😂🤣
I really appreciate the contents you share, thank you so much. Just curious about average cost of ammo in US in the various calibers or variants (.38, .38 +P, 357 , 9 mm etc), just to compare. In liberal Europe we have higher prices in fuel, cars, weapons , ammo, strictier laws on guns etc. I'm really considering a Taurus, maybe 85 series 6 shots. Not sure about stainless or the reduced-weight ones (any suggestions?). Thinking a .38 +P can be more than enough in a snubby. 6 shots seems to be the sweetspot in a j frame, too. Having a 8 shooter in a K frame at 6-8 times the cost of a good Taurus 6 shooter, just can't see the point. Hoping Taurus would consider building some 7-8 shooters. What are your thoughts, gentlemen? God bless all of you US patriots. Keep defending your rights. In liberal Europe we are all fucked up. But someone is not forgetting the price your grandfathers and fathers have paid during both wars liberating us from totalitarism. But history is repeating herself under different "clothes". Germany just didn't learn the lessons (2 times). Hopin' nobody got hurt with my words, just my 2cents.
9mm is about $12 per 50 now days and the .38 Special and .357 Mag are about $20 per 50 rounds. Taurus revolvers are lighter than listed weight so even their steel framed revolvers are quite light. The only real advantage of a reduced weight frame is if you're carrying it in gym shorts or on the ankle, or anywhere that isn't near a belt, as on the belt or a front pocket it's easy to carry a steel frame revolver.
@@GunSam thank you for the info . Wondering why no difference between 38 and 357. No difference here, too
Hi, can I ask you a little help both on revolver and semi-auto? I have the opportunity to choose between a Gen3 17 and a gen4, both new, and the difference is about 40-50 dollars. What must I choose? Does the new Gen4 spring system improve the long term reliability? I'm going to buy a .38 637 airweight ext hammer snub nose too. Do you feel it's a good little gun, scandium- reliability wise? Do you suggest speed loaders or speed strips on this particular model? Last, are magpul mags a good choice over the original ones? The cost half. Thank you
Wondering what the the black powder loads are like, I mean with the 45 colt it's Superior than that of the smokeless charges...
anyways there's a huge gray area between the original 38 Specials and modern steel revolvers in 38 special....
People talk about cartridges like the 38 special, 32 special or the 25 auto and they always have to dig in them as if they're somehow less lethal than 9mm. If the mobsters and Mafia hit men of the past could talk I believe they would tell us just how lethal those small rounds were and are. The human body hasn't become more bullet resistant in the last 50 years.
Yes I agree a lighter weight plus p 38 special jacketed hollow point.. you want a jacketed bullet that does not wiggle out from the case and lock the gun up and shooting a lightweight snub at plus p velocities..(or snub nose Magnum velocities).. I'm very confident carrying plus p lightweight jacketed hollow points.. I'm also confident caring a five-shot snub .. so what if there are more than one or two perpetrators? Say three or four.. do you really believe after you engage and shoot the first two the other two are going to hang around? Not likely
Good opinion 👍🤘❤️ but just a reminder the 22 lr has killed more people than all other calibers combined.
Please test Underwood extreme defender 38 special + p ammo out of a snub
I'll consider it.
Hey Sam what do you think of 158 grain LRN .38 for snub nose self defense?
From what I hear it's not that good. I have never truly tested it though. I may have to someday.
Paul Barely did one of his "meat tests" and was surprised at how effective it was.
Got Hornady critica defense in my 637 air weight.
In what world is a .38 not enough? Ridiculous.
Yep, even a .32 generally speaking.
Would your average +p rated small frame 38 revolver (5~6 rounds 2"~3" barrel) sustain the pressure of a +p+ load?
+p really isn't much of anything at all, jump from a max pressure of 17,000 psi to 20,000 psi. That being said you could have standard pressure ammo at 17,000 psi and 17,001 psi would be considered +p. I would shoot as much +p as you want with no worries, I been doing that for years in my small .38+p revolver.
@@GunSam I have an all steel Taurus 856, Taurus itself advertises it as +p rated only, they do that for all their revolvers, no specifics about the +p+ variant. Based on your experience, considering the psi increase isn't that much, would it be ok for me to run +p+ through it then? Considering Taurus's reputation I hope you understand why I'm worrying.
Greetings from Brazil. Thanks for answering, I really like your channel :)
I like your videos& can't think of a time I've disagreed with your opinion. With the vast array of loadings available for the .38spl, I can see no good reason to think it's inferior to commonly carried handguns, with the exception of "bear country", where bigger would certainly be better.
I was told not to use plus p for my 1950's colt det special/ Any danger with using that ammo?
The issue with older revolvers is that the mettalugy of older revolvers is not as good as modern ones. The older revolvers are higher quality than new ones with hand fitting and all of that, but like I was saying the mettalurgy isn't that good, so there will be more wear and tear. I don't personally think that your revolver would break or anything like that with a +P, but I personally wouldn't want to take the risk. The workaround for getting more power with older revolvers is to use a lead round like a semi-wadcutter hollow point. Lead has less friction so you can often send them out 100 FPS faster out of a snub than it's same weight jacketed counterpart, with the same powder charge. The best setup for your gun would be standard pressure ammo and lead defensive rounds like the Buffalo Bore 158 gr LSWCHP standard pressure if you want more power.
@@GunSam I appreciate that . Thanks so much.
Sure would not want to get shot by a 38, or a 32, or any other bullet for that matter. Going to the gunstore today, getting a new revolver off the shelf, would you go with a 5 shot 38 sp +p over lets say same size 6 shot .327 federal magnum?
If I did not reload my ammo I would say no, but because I do reload I would say maybe. The .327 Federal Mag was designed from the ground up to be a snub nose cartridge, so it will perform well. It will get .357 magnum snub nose ballistics with less felt recoil, all of which are good things. The downside is that shooting it a lot would be difficult and costly if you don't roll your own ammo, and the pressure is very, very high-so if you shoot a lot of rounds, the .38 is a much better choice. Now if this was just a carry gun that's carried a lot and shot very little, certainly the .327 magnum will have stopping power and long range abilities far above the .38 Special.
I like my .327 LCR, but I reload. I don't load to full-pressure .327's, mine have the same powder charge as a stout .38 spl+P, but have less recoil. I don't have a chronograph, but they move steel plates a little better than a 9mm service pistol, which I feel is adequate. I load copper plated hollow points designed for 32 H&R magnums. At the higher velocities of my hand load, they should expand. They are pretty accurate out to 15 yards for me. So, less recoil for about the same performance and 1 extra round makes it a nice package for me. My wife is recoil shy and can shoot 32' longs out of it.
See what ammo they and other places near you carry before making that choice.
Higher demand will eventually incease supply one would think.
We were told back in the day, that we were issued .38 specials with hydro-shock ammo, because if we missed the bad guy, the round would not penetrate enough through the walls of the embassy to kill Miss Jones working at her desk. If we needed more fire power and capacity, we had the 12 gauge shotgun with folding stock, M-16, or Uzi issued to us. But from your video, .38 Special +P should do the job? Sorry, I answered my own question. Disregard please. Just wanted to brag a bit. Lol.
Even a snubbie loaded with normal target rounds will be sufficient for most any situation a person finds himself in. Yes, +P is more powerful, but FMJs are not exactly airsoft rounds.
JHP or SJHP do show a bit better fight stopping statistics over LRN or FMJ. But .38 FMJ can be decent, even a 130 gr tends to tumble around and not over-penetrate.
What are your thoughts on Lucky Gunner's big gel test that includes 38 and 357 mag? I really wish companies would make new bullet designs for revolvers. There is no reason for them to be so similar to auto rounds. There are designs that would never work in an automatic, but would be highly effective in a revolver. The new federal HST in 38 is a good example of this.
They did a great job with their test and it's a good baseline of an FBI style of test but on a larger scale all at once. The only downside is that I have personally gotten much different velocity numbers than they got, such as the round I tested today the .357 Mag short barrel Gold Dot. Their test and mine were both in 2" barrel and I got somewhere around 100 FPS more velocity.
@@GunSam
I definitely keep it bookmarked for referencing, but personally, I think that them using clear gel rather than real ballistics gel is a problem with their test as clear gel is absolutely not the same as real ballistics gel. If you use a different medium to test bullets than the countless studies that standardized the 12-18 inch rule, you can't really use their standards. It is probably close enough, but I still don't like it. Their testing was pretty consistent though, so they can definitely say one round is better than another, but I don't think that they can say that any particular round meets FBI spec.
I wonder if the difference in velocity you got is because of inconsistency between lots or a difference in chronographs.
Another question, has their results changed your opinion on any loading that you had previously tested? For example, maybe you tested a load that didn't do to well or did really well, but in their test, it had an opposite result.
@@MegaAppleshit Most of the end result is very similar in their tests compared to mine as far as bullet expansion. I do however wonder how much the particle board I use changes anything. I feel like my testing is a little more realistic to the human body as incapacitating shots often hit something like ribs, so I do wonder sometimes if loads they tested that did not expand, if they would expand in my testing. However, there have been a couple in my tests that did not expand, but I did not look to see if Lucky Gunner tested the ones that did not though.
@@GunSam
Perhaps you should do a group of tests with a particular load. (Maybe your carry load for whatever you carry most often)
One test with the full set. Bologna, wood, and water. (Or just review an older test)
One test with just bologna and water.
One with just wood and water.
And one test with just water as a baseline.
And maybe if you feel like it, a test with each pre-medium doubled.
It would be interesting to see what effect the pre-mediums you use have. If nothing else, you would at least see how well your carry load does in a multitude of situations and could also have another interesting video to put up. (Or maybe don't post that video because people would probably expect all your tests to be that extensive and I'm sure that would become expensive pretty quick.)
Anyway thanks for taking the time to chat!
@@MegaAppleshit I'm actually retesting ammo I have already tested with plain water jugs but with my new medium. Reason why is that I did 9mm vs .357 4" in the past, and now I am doing the .357 with 2". That means that the 9mm is still the same box of ammo in the same pistol. Actually, I have done this already with two different test mediums and with similar ammo in Tac-XP because I reused that ammo in a 2" vs 4" .38 Special test, and the original test I did use plain water with the same ammo in the 2" barrel. Also I tested the 158 gr Federal Hydrashok .357 mag in the 4" barrel twice, once in plain water once in the jug-or-not. First video was 9mm vs .357 Hydrashok, then recently Federal Hydrashok .357 in same revolver vs Hydrashok .45 ACP. I'll have to watch the videos and see what the difference is.
Do you ever carry a tiny .380?
Sometimes, but usually its around Christmas or Thanksgiving day. I carry ultra concealed when seeing family and I go with empty chamber in that circumstance too. One might ask why carry at all if that's the case, but people should remember there's a drive to family homes, so its good to have something.
When thinking of self defense we have to remove our expectation of being in a fire fight where we need all the bullets we can spare and think more realistic of your wife gets accosted on her way to the car from the grocery story, a j frame 38 special with hollowpoints emptying all 5 into his center mass is whats realistically going to be the ideal outcome bc theres no chace of jamming, battery issues, limp wrist malfuntion etc. She can just press that barrep right up against him and pull the trigger
You know, I have a S&W .38 Special 10-14. It is brand new. I shot it once, but I need to practice more with it. The reason I bought this pistol was out of nostalgia. I carried one of these with Hydro-shock rounds as a Marine security guard at embassies in Khartoum, Sudan, Kampala, Uganda, and Wellington New Zealand in the mid 1980's. I entrusted my life as well as the Americans I was protecting to it. It was what we were issued, so no choice. But, I have serious hesitation to carry it these days for self-defense due to better rounds now offered in other calibers. I have a Kenai chest holster for my S&W 686 in .357 mag. in which the 10-14 fits perfectly. I want to carry the 10-14 for self-defense and when I go hunting for snakes and the occasional predator. Do you recommend it for these tasks? Your deep knowledge on the .38 specia would be much appreciated. Thanks brother. I really enjoy your videos. 😶
Looking up the 14 after the 10, it shows 2002 production which should mean it says +P on the barrel? If it says +P you have a lot of very hot options if you need to go that route. Like Buffalo Bore 125 gr XTP .38+P delivers over 400 ft lbs energy from a 4" barrel and is pretty easy to shoot, a modern K frame rated for +P would handle it easily. There's also the 158 gr+P lead rounds from Buffalo Bore, just as good but a but smoky from lead. Some of the off the shelf ammo is pretty impressive, mainly the Federal Punch 120 gr+P as that gives near 300 ft lbs in a 4" and will expand well 13" penetration .56" expansion. Now for dangerous animals nothing beats the Underwood 158 gr LSWC hard cast, it's coated and the leading is low, and over 500 ft lbs from a 4" barrel. As far as snakes go, I am not really sure how well it would do because I don't have experience with .38 snake shot, but if you went with a traditional bullet for a snake, nothing beats a low power wadcutter, will cut right into it even if you graze it. That's all I can think of right now standing out in my mind as it's late lol
@@GunSam Thanks Gun Sam for the help. I love this pistol. I remember this pistol was all I had at times alone in some pretty rough situations in Africa. However, we did get issued .357 snubbies when we carried concealed out in town. All the State Department guy's carried them when at the embassy and around town due to the radical anti-American Islam types running around. I have the plus P version, so my options are better as you stated.
Do you ever load your own self defense rounds? I know they say not to but alot of lawyers say it's fine.
I don't because I don't really feel the need to. I can find good quality already made.
I'm not sure I understand what you're suggesting when you say that the snub-nose in standard pressure is not good enough for self defense (8:13-8:21). Don't they have about the same energy as the .380 that you carry?
They do have similar energy. But the point I was making is that for opening a hollow point, the standard pressure .38 special just won't do it. What I see in my tests as average performance in a snubby for a .38 special is about a 125 gr bullet doing 800 fps. Yes that similar to the .380 LCP in energy as I get a 90 gr going 950 fps, however the .380 always expands at that level and the .38 does not.
@@GunSam I now carry Hornady Critical Defense (standard pressure) in my snubbie and my little .380, based on gel tests I've seen as well as Paul Harrell's tests. They are more likely to slightly under-penetrate than over-penetrate but that's fine with me.
Depends on what you are protecting yourself against, and how many. One on one, with the right ammo (+P HP), and good hits, should be ok. Problem I've seen, thugs tend to run in pair, triples, or more. And, even with a good hit, they may not stop what they are doing quickly enough to save your life.
Remington 158gr +P wadcutter lead hollow point in all .38/.357s. Great performance and great controlability. 140 gr JHP .357 reloads if that isn’t enough! {!-{>
They must be XTP .357's!
Americans
talk .45 acp ... it's historic
Shoot 9mm ....it's a trend
Carry .38 spl ...it's trustworthy
They are discussing cons and pros as a foreigner myself i think thats a good discussion and informative. And noone chooses where they are born. We the people is actually universal. Foreign policy is one thing regular people havin a beer is another.
I think you need to do a vid on energy and effectiveness. I see allot of vids from huge channels running guns like the 38 special snub into the ground with 38 vs 9mm vids and chrono results showing how the 9mm has typically 100+ftlbs of energy over the snub when loaded equally.. None ever bother to explain the minuscule effects on the body that that extra energy actually provides, nor do they ever mention the potential for a pass through and wasted energy potential from the more powerful loads. I’d rather be hit by a 9mm that has 350ftlbs of energy that passes clean through than a 38 with 250ftlbs of energy that penetrates adequately and dumps all its energy in me!!
The problem with .38 special vs 9mm, is that 9mm has to be loaded to a certain power factor to operate the slide, therefore most of it will come out of those pistols in the 300-400 ft lbs energy range with a 4" barrel. With .38 special in a 4" barrel, typically we see 250 to 320 ft lb energy range with +P ammo. I know that I have seen some of the 9mm ammo I chronographed come out at 1,090 fps with a 115 gr bullet(303 fpe) and I have seen some .38 ammo come out at 1,130 fps with a 110 gr+P bullet(312 fpe). The .38 special can be whatever it wants to be depending on how it's loaded, and unfortunately most ammo companies load it light. I think it's fair to say that the 9mm is usually more powerful, but we also see smaller hollow point cavities and lighter projectiles, which makes them overpenetrate through hard barriers. The .38+P, lets say a Gold Dot 135 gr will do 1,000 fps in a 4" or 900 in a 2" and be very effective on a living target, but will bounce off hard enough barriers as where the 9mm might not. My biggest goal is that people will take an honest look at revolver cartridges and see them for what they are, it's almost like the 80's and 90's with Vanilla Ice gonna bust out his "9" and Hannibal Smith with his "8 rounds of Mr 9mm" have effected people's reality, and made them have some sort of false sense of ballistics, all the while we have huge gun channels using the worst possible .38 Special ammo, with the worst bullet designs and lowest power, through the shortest barrel-to show how bad it is. I really don't know why they do that, it serves no purpose. I am here for no other reason than to be honest with people, and it makes me laugh when I get "schooled" in ballistics by 21 year old's who want to read the ballistic numbers off a box of 158 gr LRN target ammo, and compare it to the Buffalo Bore 9mm+P+ and show me a thing or two.
Gun Sam _Revolver Aficionado_ couldn’t agree more!!! Good answer. I’ve always looked at the energy levels of handgun cartridges as a baseline for its potential effectiveness not the finish line myself.. I appreciate your channel.
We are gonna see some of what ammo companies are doing to revolver cartridges now days when I publish my "9mm Vs .357 Magnum Episode 1. Hornady American Gunner" video. Let's just say I had my head shaking while filming the video, which you will see. Ammo companies have really ruined the real .357 magnum in order to make it shootable to some people in their alloy .357 mag backup snubbies. It's like they want to cater to people who want to say they carry a ".357 magnum", when in reality it's a 9mm in .357 mag clothing.
Gun Sam _Revolver Aficionado_ I can’t wait. I’ve felt like they have been neutering revolver rounds and printing bogus numbers on mag loads for a long time, saying this 357 125gr mag load will go 1590fps and not stating the test gun used had a rifle length barrel etc etc!!! I look forward to it!!
Sound echo is horrible man. Ty for info though.
Must say I don't like the old live animal testing, unless they would have been killed for food regardless. I know--I'm not in charge of the world!
I'm enjoying your videos, thanks.
Thanks for watching. I grew up on a farm so it was a part of life for us, however a .22 to the back of the head was how it's done, side shots to an animal is a little strange.
Well... let me put it like this: as far as the few i know about, i don't want be shot, neither with suitable stopping power cartridge nor with is deemed not suitable to stop me. It irritates my skin...
in legal use of deadly force in my state is the use of enough force to stop the immediate threat. the general statutes clearly states only such force to stop and no more. I think most states use that guideline. to stop may take many shots to stop but many times only one shot.tthe threat my be shot 1-3 times or more to stop or with one shot and there dead .so all my years of reloading knowledge and experience testing and hurting deer and killed more than I will say here, I contend regardless of calibers it the design of the bullets for the intended use is of most importantance. in my state it's perfectly legal to deer hunt with a 22 long rifle cartridge is a rifle not a pistol. if it's capible of killing a150-200 pound deer it capible of killing a really large person.. equally dead as if shot by a 3030 Winchester rifle. in truth the 30-30 would be a far better choice for effectiveness but a22 will property placed shot kill deer.proper placement and properly designed bullets for the intended use is most important.
. to each man or woman for choice of self defense firearms bullet selection is most important.think in this in my state you can use any calibers of any center fire pistol/ revolver with no minimum barrel length to legally deer hunt.wow a no better way to see what you and anno can do. and a stubby 38 special is legal here to deer hunt with .the effectiveness of it , well it put near in the freezer. thank you young man for allowing this comment. nanna and papa love you..
Hornady 110gr plus p is giving me 910-940 FPS out of a colt detective special seems ok but not great
Whenever someone makes the statement that will just make them mad I always come back with do you want to get shot with it and 100% of the time the answer is no
If the goal is a tacticool sidearm with lasers and red dots that can can shoot a dime at a hundred yards then the snub nose isn't for you. If the goal is a down and dirty self defense situation at 10 to 15 feet, then it's perfect.
lol, I just put a laser on my snub nose. While I cannot shoot a dime from 100 yards, I can hit a ISPC full size 6 in a row from a snub from 100 yards.
The published data you got on Wikipedia for the 158gr. +P load must have been shot out of a carbine, every revolver including 6" barrels I shot that load never got close to that high of energy at 351 ft. lb. Never assume the information that you get from the internet is true but that doesn't mean the 38 special +p isn't effective since it's the standard base line for all defensive pistol cartridge.
I have fired that .38 Special+P from my 1.875" J-frame and got an average of 1,002 FPS, with MY revolver through MY chronograph. That information is obviously for the Buffalo Bore LSWCHP. That Wikipedia data is about identical to what I got. You shouldn't make assumptions, as it is indeed through a snub nose revolver. Your assumption is I got my information from Wikipedia, but no. I got my information from testing and Wikipedia happens to confirm it, so no, I am not assuming but you are.
Oh, and here are my snub nose .38 Special+P chronograph averages in my testing from the high end ammo, and all numbers i'm going to list are either in a 1.875" J-frame or 2" Taurus 605: Buffalo Bore 158 gr LSWCHP+P 1,002 FPS/352 FPE. Buffalo Bore 125 gr JHP bonded 1,111 FPS/343 FPE. Underwood 158 gr LSWC 1,103 FPS/427 FPE. Buffalo Bore TAC-XP 110 gr+P 1,112 FPS/302 FPE. Super-Vel 90 gr JHP+P 1,307 FPS 341 FPE.
@@GunSam There was no hint or mention of shooting the extreme pressure ammunition and many suspect these companies are loading beyond the rated SAAMI set pressures. Most modern 38 special revolvers rated to +p will handle occasional use of these pressures but it's still risky over time and the only vise to keep excessive use of these ammunition is its high cost at $31for 20 rounds. It's also the same reason that caused the M9 Beretta to eventually break because the military set the pressure limit specifications for 9x19 to higher levels so it can operate reliable with their direct blow back carbines in service. Buffalo bore offers loads for the 9x19 at around 461 to 500ft lb range and that's excessive and unsafe over time just to have an edge in power to compensate for marksmanship and skill training.
Thanks for the reply and remember the internet can be misleading but sometimes informative.
People will put down the 38 special 1 to 2 shots is gonna knock someone's sense back in to em if something pokes that big of a hole right through you that is gonna cause significant amount of damage to your body standard pressure plus p fmj hollow point lead round nose it doesn't matter people act like a mouse gun won't kill em too people need to stop this whole caliber debate