Clipless Pedals VS Flats - What's better? - Back to Basics
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- čas přidán 2. 06. 2024
- #mountainbike #loamwolf
A question and opinion we see shared all the time, Flat pedals vs Clipless pedals...What is better? In this video we begin the task of examining a few case scenarios where clipless and flat pedals each show their merit.
While riders can be successful on either platform depending on their discipline, there are undeniable benefits to clipless or clip-in pedals that are worth taking a look at if you've never tried them before. We are big fans of being fluent on both types of pedals and choosing the ones that work best for your given ride or goal
Thanks to @htcomponents9981 and @aribikes for making this video happen.
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Was switching between clips and flats for 5-6 years. I’ve tried spd, time and now cb. Was happy with flats but it was really hard to stop feet bouncing of pedals when riding through roots This year tried my first cb pedals and was amazed how much control over rear wheel I got. Also no more bouncing feet
I have both, I ride clipless on my XC bike where I am just concentrating on speed and not much in the way of hard and rough trails, and ride flats on my enduro bike where of course I am riding rougher trails and gives me the confidence to put a foot down if I need to.
As someone who has spent a lot of time on both, I found shoe choice makes a huge difference. There are a ton of options. In the last few years I switched to a flat style clip shoe the got my foot in a position similar to where it would sit on my flat pedals. Complete game changer for me. Stuff that would have previously had me putting on the flats I no longer think about. I now save the flats for the dirt jumps and skate park..
Nice thanks for sharing and good feedback!
Totally agree. Also something I have done recently that has made a massive difference as well was switching the pedal. Now I use Funn Ripper's and it's made a massive difference. There is no effort to clip in, you just put your foot down and get in, and because of the set up of the pedal you have the support of a flat pedal as well. Honestly I dont think I ever want for a flat pedal. But then it's so subjective. :)
I like the idea of clipless pedals but at 72 years old falling needs to be minimized. After falling a number of times I went back to flat pedals until I found Hustle magnetic pedals. Now I ride only the Hustle magnetic pedals. They hold your feet to the pedals when’s you pull up but by tilting your feet in any direction you can easily release your feet. They have the advantages of clipping in without the danger. I have never fell down will using the magnetic pedals. They attach to your clipless ready shoes so you don’t need new shoes to go from clipless to magnetic.
Yep 100% agree, @hustlebikelabs REMtech (RareEarthMetal) pedals are the true best of both worlds - if you can get them. Version 2 is coming soon and I can't wait to get another pair, so I don't have to switch them between my bikes. I went through many clipless and flat pedals until I settled on Hustle Labs. You get the benefits of pulling up on climbs like you do wearing clipless and staying planted when riding the chunder - no foot slips or shin strikes when riding larger rocks in the gnar, makes scooping and jumping the bike easier, and the benefit of being able to get your foot free around turns, low speed crawls, or performing foot plants, technical lifts, etc. Love 'em! Paired them with Five Ten Kestrel Pro' BOA shoes for the perfect combo.😁 I am so sad to see a rip in the elbow on Drew's awesome looking Loam Wolf jersey I hope you didn't do that while filming and are OK. Keep making more of these great videos!!
@@fyiguy1 Thank you for saying describing the benefits of the Hustle pedals better than I could. They are the best of both worlds.
For mtb:
1. Magnetics (Hustle)
2. Flats (PI Catalyst)
3. Clips (Eggbeater Ti/Mallet)
I also use the Hustle magnetic pedals. They have abilities of clipless while being a lot easier to release your shoe from the pedal.
One thing people should consider is how well you want your shoes to perform off the bike. I like flats when I need to get off the bike and walk a section before riding because they have better grip off the bike, they're more comfortable to walk in, and you don't have to worry about getting dirt and debris all over the cleats and bolts.
clipless is all about selling you shoes.
unless your on a road bike pedalling at 120rpm up hill then you don't need them
As you wisely sum it up, on loose terrain flats give some peace of mind. Inversely, when the terrain is bumpy, I feel more in control if I’m clipped in. To each, his own…
Great video Drew! It's always fun diving in to such a hotly debated topic. :)
I agree, at the end of the day, there are pros/cons, and each rider has to decide which works best for them. But, a couple of thoughts/questions...
Ideally, I would submit that good technique really shouldn't be all that different for either pedal type. Sure, you can do things with cleats that you can't with flats, but would you want to?
For cornering, did you have an expectation that one pedal type would do better than the other? If so, why?
I rode flats for 5+ years and finally made the switch over to clips. I honestly love being on clips... not sure if it's because most of the pros ride clips, or maybe my background in skiing and using bindings. Regardless, I just have more fun, go faster, have more control over the bike, and never blow a pedal through chunk. Yes, I've had some crashes where I didn't unclip and that sucked, but most of the time I it's not a big deal. I'm running crankbrothers e-mallets with the new Fox Racing union shoe and have been stoked on them!
For curious people who ask me about clip in pedals, I tell them to when at home, hop up on the kitchen counter, legs crossed with your left (or right) side facing the counter edge. Then, while keeping your legs crossed, slowly lean over the edge of the countertop. As gravity takes hold, keep leaning til you are falling towards the floor. Your options are either to stick an arm out to soften the fall, or just take it as Isaac Newton intended. This folks, is how you will inevitably enjoy the clipless pedal experience in full without making a costly investment in pedals or shoes. Enjoy!
Hahaha. We see why they call you joker.
Indeed. Yes - I was an early adopter of clipless (737 and 747 series shimanos back in the 1990's), and they DO keep your feet on the pedals, especially handy when riding on the rickty bouncy hardtails of that era. But, it only took one 4-cross race running flats to convince me that my days of clipping in were over....haven't looked back since. @@TheLoamWolf
Total rider preference. I love clipless pedals cuz i am sooo used to em. Found my perfect tension and it is easy to unclip without thinking about it. Chunky downhill stuff feels better to me with my feet clipped in and no chance of losing footing.
Thanks for sharing!
I would have would have ridden just as you did on the rock jump in flats...front tire bump and scoop the pedals to clear it. I would just bunny hop the entire rock in clipless. I ride clipless on trail on my Stumpy 29er and flats on my 2008 Spec Enduro. It do a lot of street stuff like jibs and hucks to flat at the local skate park on that bike. The kids on 20" think I'm nuts there. I think 26" wheels feels like a kids bike. Lol. Nice comparison. Do more of these and you will get really fit before winter.
Haha thanks very much, glad you enjoyed and appreciate you sharing your story too.
Been on flats forever.
Maybe I'm stubborn but I've been reluctant to give clipless a real go (tried Shimano and did not get along).
I want to give the Crankbrothers Mallet DH a run. Mainly because racing Enduro or trying to beat PB's and I think it's the next step to improving times.
Time wasted reshuffling feet after a rough section instead of pedaling.
The CB's seem popular in gravity racing. Large flat style platform and apparently easier in/out than others.
Right on thanks for sharing. No matter which platform you choose, it will take about 10-15 hours of clipping in and out before its second nature and you no longer think about it. Also, clear position can take several rides to adjust, tweak and settle on.
Always ended up bending the cleat retention bars on crank brothers pedals. Surprised you had trouble with Shimano. They are what I use and have never been a problem.
Shimano Saints FTW
My favorite pedals also. I put the rear pins in “wrong” way with the torx head up and no front pins.
I've always been a flats guy, but on my Turbo Levo I run Crankbrothers clipless. I have to, because I can't keep my feet on the pedals otherwise. I only run Crank Bros though. Easiest to get out of IMHO.
I alternate between both. The HT T2 clipless has 8 pretty good grub screws that can easily take my Ride Concepts Tallac BOA flats. I like skinny pedals and the HT is perfect for running double duty.
not gonna lie.. i think people missed the fox union flat shoes.. looks like you guys are testing a new flat version. good stuff
I started on flats on my hot wheel trike in 1973. I haven't changed since, flats that is. Question is can you change an old wolf with new pedals.
Just find flats so much more comfortable with good flats shoe.
Probably also partly fault of not finding perfect clipless pedal+shoe combo. Tried 3-4 different shoes with Shimano SPD pedals.
It can definitely take time to find that right connection.
Was a roadie and started MTB clipless but transitioned to flat after 2 years. It took about 3 months to feel confident but I feel way more connected to the bike on flats. Needing to not lose a pedal, I push into the bike more, I get more traction and I’m more stable. With clipless, it made me lazy.
Interesting feedback! Thanks for sharing.
flat teaches one to pedal more efficiently
How tight you run the pedals? Since switching from flats I'm worried becoming unclipped while flicking the bike around as under pressure they unclip quite easy. I keep tightening them but simultaneously sudden, unweighted unclipping becomes harder.
Ensure that cleats aren’t too recessed into the shoes so they’re not getting a proper insertion.
As far as tension goes, depending on how old the pedals or cleats are I’m almost fully closed or within 4 clicks of full close. The more you move around on the bike, the tighter they get. Also suggest checking the cleanliness and lubrication of pedals.
When I started mtb in 92 I had cages then moved to spd, I rode bmx clipped in for awhile but I was exclusively on flat since 2002 I had a freak accident that pulled my leg out of its socket. Anyways just recently I bought a pair of funn mamba with clip on one side flat on the other, okay it was a bit confusing at first but it's really best of both worlds, I can clip in for technical climbs & dh, especially in rockgardens but I have the freedom of movement whenever I want to, should have done this sooner...
Best tip I got was to remove the pins for learning clipless, made removing quicker and boosted my confidence to do all the stuff I do on flats
Great tip! And yes, that is a way to get out easier.
I did remove one pin on the outer front edge of my pedals, as I found this particular pin placement was murder on my 5-10 sole. This tweak keeps my shoe soles intact for more than one season, and there's really no loss in grip. Familiarity with your equipment makes mods easy.
Shimano has an SPD pedal with multiple release angles.
Riding flats still seems like driving without a seatbelt to me. I'm trying, but thinking about putting the Egg beaters back on.
Went to clips after 12 years on flats have shimano spd pedals changed to multi release cleats a year ago easier to unclip in a panic no dramas
I ride MTB shoes and XT pedals on my gravel bike. I’m also a hiker. And the ultralight hikers that crush big miles quickly love to site the “one pound on your feet equals five pounds on your back” Army study to convince others to wear trail runners instead of hiking boots on the trails. I’ve never used road shoes and pedals. I wonder if that foot math makes road setups feel a pound and a half lighter.
Did you have the off on flats or clips? Noticed the torn sleeve
I tried to inside a corner a little too tight and caught a sharp branch on a tree.... bummed to rip my brand new jersey!
We neee better flat pedal shoes, not too much option from fox and rc shoes just have a couple of flat boa shoes
Awesome
Thanks so much! Hope it was entertaining, or helpful, or both!
Flats all day every day for me. I never slip a pedal with good shoes (Ride Concept Hellion Elites) and pedals (Tenet Occult V2's) even through fast and repeated hard hits of black and double black trails. Flats generally allow me to use better body positioning, technique and balance. With all the wet and slippery terrain here in the PNW, I've tried clips multiple times, but never feel good on them with my feet locked in and my confidence suffers. Had several wrecks with clips where I could not get the feet off quick enough where with my flats, it would have been an easy save. That said, clips for sure do allow me to do some things I cannot easily do on flats, but the trade off is not worth it to me.
Right on thanks for sharing! You nailed it, and this is why we're so hesitant to say one product, or thing is "better" because everyone has a different need, location or want from their equipment and experience on the trail!
I've ridden MTB for a long time, since late 80s. So started with cage pedals and toe clips/straps as "clipless" analog, as well as basic flats. I started road riding and then was clipless all the time once my road bike got clipless (vs toe clips & straps), road or mtb clipless always. Early 00s started riding flats again and rode flats for 2 seasons except on the rare road ride. Then back to clipless until 2 yrs ago when I started swapping flats and clipless.
On descents I would always prefer to be on flat pedals. There was a time when I didn't weight pedals correctly and feet would patter off in rocks but that doesn't happen any more for me. Better shoe sole grip has helped a lot, thanks 5.10.
No matter how I set saddle height, even with sticky rubber sole shoes and good pedals, there's a dead spot in pedaling around 7:00 up through 12:00 and around to about 1:00. That dead spot isn't there with clipless and over a long ride that leaves me with fresher legs for the same ride. Only difference, flats vs clipless. I joke about wanting to swap pedals at the start of the descent.
Agreed. I ride stuff where Drew grew up I believe. Simi Rocky Peak, Thousand Oaks and Santa Barbara. Its rough, chunky and loose. My buddy that got me into riding was a pro, so we never rode anything smooth....now when I do I am bored, so flats it is as the mental block is too high as I sometimes need to jump off the bike (G-Spot in simi anyone...)
Speedplay Frogs... You clip out "telepathically"... Makes it and easy decision...
i will never never never ride flats. i need to feel secure and at one with the bike
What i dont like about clipless is the additional thickness and height your foot sits off the axle of the pedal. I really like the feet into the pedal stuckness.
Fox Flats with BOA?! GIVE MEEEEEE
These must he some new unreleased shoes?
and if your foots bouncing off a pedal then your positioning must be all wrong....
I really like your videos but something is missing to me: you compare it under the roof of racers (where a really hard downhill would have been nice) but honestly: ratio of people racing is rather low. Most just want to have good times on the trail: s flat pedal shoe is warmer in winter (cleats can be so cold). If 3 of my 4 bikes are in the workshop I can still use my Enduro for getting to bakery with normal shoes. Oval chainrings can compensate a lot of efficiency for flat pedals, not so helpful on clipless. Flat lets you ride your bike with the shoes for office. No need to change in a 30min ride brake. Flats let you Position your foot differently on a long day ride to relax muscles. No misalignment possible with flats. Minimum pedal hight is lower… nevertheless I always think about going back to clipless, because my eggbeaters on gravel bike look so nice…but there the miss-usability of my gravel for daily things is such an advantage I even ride flats on my gravel. But your video lets me think trying clipless again one day
Thank you for sharing and we appreciate your insight! There are certainly more benefits than just speed or pedaling with clipless, such as bike control (being able to move/lean/slide) the bike underneath you and around obstacles. Being able to unweight, pick up or float over chunky bits, and not having to re-adjust your foot position they your feet bounce around and migrate on the pedals. Allowing you to focus more on lines, safety and confidently ride because your feet are secure. BUT, all of your points are fair and valid too! Which is why we tried to say at the beginning, there is no "right" or "wrong" only different pros and cons that will suit different riders differently! Have fun!
@@TheLoamWolf thanks for the response. I certainly will experiment with clipless again when I have more time again for riding and keep your points in mind . And I really like your way of how you talk about things in your videos. You have a certain kindness in your voice which makes it really comfortable to follow your content . By the way: I bought the Rallon R6 after your review and am very happy with its rather agil not sluggish character
Thank you very much! We try to remember that we’re all just trying to have fun outside and are lucky enough to be in bikes! So, as long as we try to help share our insights in a positive way and have fun spreading the stoke, we can’t go wrong! Thanks for being an awesome part of our crew!
Watch videos of mtb crashes... the majority are people becoming disconnected from the bike using flat pedals.
You guys say that there are "major undeniable claims, pedaling efficiency, pedaling power, reduction of fatigue, foot security" and right out of the gate you get first one wrong. Pedaling efficiency is not better with clipless. GCN tested properly this in University of Bath 9 yrs. ago and there is also scientific research on the matter. Also as there is no difference in efficiency one could surmise there should be no difference in fatigue but I haven't seen any scientific research on that matter though. Advantage in peak power while using clipless is undeniable though and that has been shown in tests and research. Foot security is also quite obvious but with good flats and good flat shoes it's rarely issue though. I just don't get why ppl are pushing this false narrative, are they misinformed or are they just repeating what others say or are they just relaying on their personal experience which is just anecdotal evidence at best (and thats not really something one should rely upon).
Also in this Rock hop challenge it really confuses me why would one feel more strain on arms with flats as the movement to pick up the front is exactly the same (or should be with proper bunny hop technique). To me it seems like the tester was just thrown off his game with flats. It would be nice touch that the tester would tell us about his preferences and acknowledge any possible biases as it obviously matters how you are used to ride.
Thanks for sharing. Without having watched or knowing the premise or goals of the GCN test, what we are basing the claims of efficiency and average power are the fact that if your foot is attached to the pedal you are getting more power on the upstroke from you hamstring pulling up on the pedal rather than just pushing or doing the slight toe point and scoop up move with flats, which can give some upstroke power yes, but requires more body movements and brain energy to get, and it’s still not as much power as pulling up in Clipless pedals.
As far as my bias, I personally like Clipless and ride Clipless more often however I’m perfectly comfortable and confident in flats and had a period of 5 years where I exclusively ride flats.
Hopefully that helps share a bit more info. Thanks again for asking and writing in!
Drew
@@Dirtypandasanon flats you have to push the handlebars to get the rear wheel to come up.
I used to ride a road bike and when I started MTB I used flats for a while but then went to clipless and it seemed more natural to me. I can ride in flats but I prefer being clipped in, and I guess this is exactly the opposite for a lot of riders. Apart from a few freaks( Sam Hill) downhill racing and enduro racing is predominantly won by people wearing clipless pedals. For the trails most of us ride, there is no advantage of either platform so the argument to what is best is not relevant. Just remember that you need to be clipped in for the win😉🤣🚵♂️🚵♂️