One of the best and entertaining podcast hosts. It makes sense: the topics are hard and intellectual and necessary, but dude is a theatre major! Edutainment!
If people like Dr Madhavi Menon were invited to talk shows and debates on mainstream media, the world would have been a much nicer place and the main stream media would have actually been educational instead of being infuriatingly stupid. we need to have these conversations from a bigger perspective without a need to conclude to a yes or no immediately, and to keep them going by adding different perspectives to them. this was extremely educational and thought provoking and i hope we can have her on the podcast again.
Can Dr. Madhvi educate us that how many muslims read & Learn Quran & how many Hindus read & learn manusmriti these days in subcontinent. Manusmriti was burnt in 1927, who's up for burning quran? Everybody likes to compare apples & oranges
1:37:28 "because we could remind ourselves again of everything our states had asked us to forget." Listening to this literally sent chills down my spine for some reason. Almost about to finish this episode and can't thank you enough Shehzad for always having such amazing people on your podcast. Loved this episode. Please never stop this journey that is your podcast. I want to be 70 and still await new episodes of The Pakistan Experience.
I have said this before and i will say it again, "please please please keep it up Shahzad." God bless you for having these conversations and documenting this. Only time will tell how important this all has been. Lots of love for you ❤
Never heard a more wrong footed conversation on sexuality. What Madhavi completely ignores is that coming out as gay is a political statement in a heteronormative world. It is stating who you are and what makes you you. It's about normalising your innate personality through being outspoken about it. Before these modern labels came along everybody called romantic relationships between people of the same sex in the western world 'friendship' or 'close friends' too. Much like "dosti". What this means in effect is -- 'yea, you can be dosts. but continue to keep your romantic affairs, and your personal identity in the closet.' complete bull shit
But this political and social scenario change nation to nation Pakistan being more conservative But India being more Open Also more than it Law matter While in US and UK its much easier for them live full live India is now Free of any Homosexual laws While Pakistan still has them so somewhere down the line it changes how you perceive yourself
Yaar simply amazing. This podcast has raised the bar to a great extend. Really happy and glad to have people like you who work hard for bringing such amazing stuff. Very thought provoking and well articulated. Bhai ka tu ab appointment lena peraga Good job dear 😊
If 10000 innocent people are trapped in a machine by a psychopath, and they are getting slapped after every 10 minutes for 3 hours against their will, to free them from the machine you need to slap a random person once, outside of the machine without the consent of the person you are going to slap, and no one will know that whether you have slapped that person or not, even the person you are going to slap wouldn't know who has slapped him/her would you do that?
What stuck me around 29m, when the conversation was about the history of male poets assuming a female identity is - is there any record of a female poet assuming male identity and writing Bhakti poetry and your thoughts on how accepting the world would have been in that case. I can’t help feeling that it would have been less accepting - another case of male privilege. Please please prove me wrong.
@@GG-ur4km of women poets playing the male ? I haven’t come across it! Can you give me names? Male poets always playing female to the male god is of course almost the norm .
Shehzad on Love Jihad: Hindus were opening up to marriages with Muslims but (1) Indian Muslims (generalizing here) were only interested in marrying Hindu girls that too after conversion to Islam gave a clear religious angle to it. (2) Muslim females are not allowed to mix in anyway or form with Hindu men therefore there were hardly any marriages between Hindu men and Muslims females. you should understand that religious misogynic chauvinism is infectious. it might be a race to the bottom but most Hindus (even well travelled and educated) would agree with this bias.
This is indeed thought provoking, but my concern or question is that let’s say if we didn’t have these gender fluid poets and performers in our past, how would we then justify or legitimize rights of LGBTQ or other marginalized people? Is it not enough that all people should have basic human rights and treated with respect even if the concept was purely western? We picked up so many bad values so easily… Also why was our culture so vulnerable that everything good that we had was completely ruined and can never be reclaimed 😒 … Sorry for the rant, it’s was pretty hard to put my thoughts into words, you guys make it look so easy! Absolutely love what you are doing, you having these conversations is definitely a step in the right direction. You are so brave and I am extremely proud of you ❤️
It is not just South Asia. Asia as a whole is struggling to come to terms with this. I mean look at the the way LGBTQ+ is represented or rather lack of representation in Korea, China and South East Asia as a whole. The east asians are much worse when it comes to inclusivess for people of colour and people with different sexuality. The Asia as a whole is grappling with this debate. PS: I mean c'mon the so called Liberal West like UK, US has removed any Gay scenes of Dumbledore and Grindelwald's in Fanatastic Beasts: The Secrets of Dumbledore just so it can be released in China and mint it some much needed profits. I think Asia as whole needs to come to consensus and atleast acknowledge by starting to discuss that there exists such a thing called Gender/sexual Fluidity.
So you are comparing Hindutva with Talibaan and she compared india today with germany of hitler. afte munawar farooqi you mentioned talibaan killed a comedian , you having no idea what munawar farooqui said. clearly it is time to unsubscribe this bigotry
Yeah I agree. But I still believe he's shouldn't have been arrested. That's not the way. We should counter him with more comedy. Or cruise hum or mock him for his clear bigotry and hypocrisy.
@@sewaligoswami781 he called mata kaushalya a bitch and in his joke said ram abusing , i mean can you believe this ? is this comedy ? why not he call someone from muhamad prophets family then. you say we should counter him with comedy, can you make jokes on islam and their prophets and be not get killed afterwards ?
@@prabal2701 we want same treatment. Yes most of us believe that blasphemy laws shouldn't be present. But if they are present they should be present for all religions. You can find various shows and comedy artist that mock hindu deities but none even touches mohamm@d and his family. That's the problem.
Beautiful podcast. Shehzad please get Amna Baig on the show. She's the first female SP Of Pakistan. In light of recent events, there's a serious discussion needed about police reforms!
Dude as I am repeating bring in Abhijeet iyer mitra, man has a pleothra of knowledge ranging from gay knowledge, geo politics, subcontinent food, partition, hindutva and history.
Dr. Madhavi - Made all the points in a great way. I too know this and believe atleast Indian people know this in huge majority - 60% I agree, I too senced some left narrative or I can say that in discussion and not root cause analysis. But rest aside here comes politics. A too left way is dangerous in today's way and too right is dangerous too. I think that Dr. Calls spade a spade but everybody knows this in india. So, Wandering why it's a queer history of India doesn't give me sense or I can say queer history for Pakistanis seems much good sense However, great discussion.
@@ThePakistanExperience fluidity is a colonial notion, if you see old punjabi manuscripts to isay "khichri" kaha jata tha, yani sense na daal hai na chawal, balkay khichri hai, jo daal chawal ho k bhi daal chawal nahi hai, kuch log is k liay dimagh ki dahi aur dahi k raitay ki istelah bhi istemal kartay hain 😡
@@anambutt8127 if you have born in Pakistan then, I can understand it. Why it's not giving you sence. That part of history might never been tought in Pakistan.
I mean besides what we became due to colonial influences … wouldn’t our culture have evolved regardless? I do have doubts of precolonial values being as good as they are being portrayed as. I would like to hope they were because it kind of gives us hope and helps us feel better about ourselves. But I don’t think they were all that inclusive, but I am probably wrong because I have done zero research of my own 😅 … Ok bye now
she had me for a second when she talked about victimhood not being solely the purview of a numerical minority... but nope, she meant it in a disparaging "no legitimate concern" way... how disgustingly woke. oh well.
This is a one sided view on love jihad,pls see 1000s of cases where hindu women r exploited and converted forcefully or by deceit.Why does a woman need to convert when it's love🤦if the agenda is conversion then love goes for a toss.
Here is the kerala Christian community up in arms www.google.com/amp/s/theprint.in/politics/love-jihad-cases-should-be-studied-addressed-kerala-congress-m-chief-on-church-view/629731/%3famp
@@prabal2701 I can give u thousands of examples where the mosque drives this vile perverted theology of conversion by marraige,the Qur'an says that ,it's abominable and shameful that the muslim men who have different rules for their women but consider non muslim women as price of meat which needs to be conquered,sick and deviant.The muslim soceity has to talk about it to get rid of this theology.
@@prabal2701 And just fathom this,the majority community is pushing for anti conversion and love jihad rather than the minority,this shows thr aggresor and the victim and sheer bufoonery of ppl to talk about hindutva project but they are the same guys who are not aggresive here,it's the large minority who have this mad zeal of conversion by hook or crook.
Well on the gender pronoun topic. my mother tongue is bangla and bangla has no pronouns and is gender neutral. probably why we can also understand bengals bend towards left wing or liberal politics in west bengal.
Here is what Khusro writes, “Turk is like a tiger and the Hindu a deer… Hindus exist for the sake of the Turks. Hindu happens to be a slave in all respects-it does not become one to scowl at a goat which is being reared for one’s meals.” (That’s why Mr. Saif Ali Khan, Hindus have taken an exception to you naming your son, Taimur, for his name is a symbol of Islamic atrocities against the original inhabitants of this land).
@@ritesharora6032 what do u mean by search it on google Kis historian ne Konsi book mei likha hai ye ki khusro ne kabhi aisi baat kahi thi ya likhi thi. Kuch to btao... Warna bina proof ke to google pr bhot bakwas mil jayegi Kis kis pr yakeen kare
Her quotes should be on tshirts!
And Shehzad your spoiling us with such amazing content❤️
Great job mahn! Shine on⭐
One of the best and entertaining podcast hosts. It makes sense: the topics are hard and intellectual and necessary, but dude is a theatre major! Edutainment!
If people like Dr Madhavi Menon were invited to talk shows and debates on mainstream media, the world would have been a much nicer place and the main stream media would have actually been educational instead of being infuriatingly stupid. we need to have these conversations from a bigger perspective without a need to conclude to a yes or no immediately, and to keep them going by adding different perspectives to them.
this was extremely educational and thought provoking and i hope we can have her on the podcast again.
Can Dr. Madhvi educate us that how many muslims read & Learn Quran & how many Hindus read & learn manusmriti these days in subcontinent.
Manusmriti was burnt in 1927, who's up for burning quran?
Everybody likes to compare apples & oranges
That's what is don't understand without data everything is vague 😂😂😂
1:37:28 "because we could remind ourselves again of everything our states had asked us to forget." Listening to this literally sent chills down my spine for some reason. Almost about to finish this episode and can't thank you enough Shehzad for always having such amazing people on your podcast. Loved this episode. Please never stop this journey that is your podcast. I want to be 70 and still await new episodes of The Pakistan Experience.
I have said this before and i will say it again, "please please please keep it up Shahzad." God bless you for having these conversations and documenting this. Only time will tell how important this all has been. Lots of love for you ❤
💯✅🤞🏼✌🏼🌈🏳🌈
Never heard a more wrong footed conversation on sexuality. What Madhavi completely ignores is that coming out as gay is a political statement in a heteronormative world. It is stating who you are and what makes you you. It's about normalising your innate personality through being outspoken about it. Before these modern labels came along everybody called romantic relationships between people of the same sex in the western world 'friendship' or 'close friends' too. Much like "dosti". What this means in effect is -- 'yea, you can be dosts. but continue to keep your romantic affairs, and your personal identity in the closet.' complete bull shit
Hmm 🤔 you are right … this very tricky… I guess she is entitled to her opinion
But this political and social scenario change nation to nation
Pakistan being more conservative
But India being more Open
Also more than it Law matter
While in US and UK its much easier for them live full live
India is now Free of any Homosexual laws
While Pakistan still has them so somewhere down the line it changes how you perceive yourself
I have learnt a lot and thoroughly enjoyed this podcast. Thanks Shehzad :)
Me too
Yaar simply amazing. This podcast has raised the bar to a great extend. Really happy and glad to have people like you who work hard for bringing such amazing stuff.
Very thought provoking and well articulated.
Bhai ka tu ab appointment lena peraga
Good job dear 😊
If 10000 innocent people are trapped in a machine by a psychopath, and they are getting slapped after every 10 minutes for 3 hours against their will, to free them from the machine you need to slap a random person once, outside of the machine without the consent of the person you are going to slap, and no one will know that whether you have slapped that person or not, even the person you are going to slap wouldn't know who has slapped him/her would you do that?
What stuck me around 29m, when the conversation was about the history of male poets assuming a female identity is - is there any record of a female poet assuming male identity and writing Bhakti poetry and your thoughts on how accepting the world would have been in that case. I can’t help feeling that it would have been less accepting - another case of male privilege. Please please prove me wrong.
Thank you! My morning just got better. Will chase it up
@@Mayasram thousands of records in Indian history. It's part of hindu culture from thousands years
@@GG-ur4km of women poets playing the male ? I haven’t come across it! Can you give me names? Male poets always playing female to the male god is of course almost the norm .
The best episode of TPE. You discussed the topics im most interested in and the way she talked about them was excellent. Very thought provoking. 👍
Shehzad on Love Jihad: Hindus were opening up to marriages with Muslims but (1) Indian Muslims (generalizing here) were only interested in marrying Hindu girls that too after conversion to Islam gave a clear religious angle to it. (2) Muslim females are not allowed to mix in anyway or form with Hindu men therefore there were hardly any marriages between Hindu men and Muslims females. you should understand that religious misogynic chauvinism is infectious. it might be a race to the bottom but most Hindus (even well travelled and educated) would agree with this bias.
Pleae bring the folowing people:
Abhijith Iyer-Mitra
Kiran Bedi
Aravind Adiga
Arundhati Roy
Best podcast of TPE so far!
Another good example would be Amir Khusrao
"Chaap tilak sab cheeni re mose naina milaike"
In the end, the only reason why people are against homosexuality comes down to their religion.
Amazing talk and what I liked most is the out of the box thinking and questioning the stereotypes built necessarily.
It was wonderful to listen to Dr Menon! Thank you Shehzad!
👏👏nice podcast
Itne sophisticated bato se duniya nhi chalti .. logo ko practical batein samajh aati hai
Amazing conversation 👌
Kid in a candy shop.
I get that feeling when visiting Delhi ..J&K and Pakistan.
This is indeed thought provoking, but my concern or question is that let’s say if we didn’t have these gender fluid poets and performers in our past, how would we then justify or legitimize rights of LGBTQ or other marginalized people? Is it not enough that all people should have basic human rights and treated with respect even if the concept was purely western? We picked up so many bad values so easily…
Also why was our culture so vulnerable that everything good that we had was completely ruined and can never be reclaimed 😒 …
Sorry for the rant, it’s was pretty hard to put my thoughts into words, you guys make it look so easy! Absolutely love what you are doing, you having these conversations is definitely a step in the right direction. You are so brave and I am extremely proud of you ❤️
again wonder-full podcast, mind-boggling
Loved it!
It is not just South Asia. Asia as a whole is struggling to come to terms with this. I mean look at the the way LGBTQ+ is represented or rather lack of representation in Korea, China and South East Asia as a whole. The east asians are much worse when it comes to inclusivess for people of colour and people with different sexuality. The Asia as a whole is grappling with this debate.
PS: I mean c'mon the so called Liberal West like UK, US has removed any Gay scenes of Dumbledore and Grindelwald's in Fanatastic Beasts: The Secrets of Dumbledore just so it can be released in China and mint it some much needed profits. I think Asia as whole needs to come to consensus and atleast acknowledge by starting to discuss that there exists such a thing called Gender/sexual Fluidity.
Very nice and interesting conversation about Indian subcontinent
So you are comparing Hindutva with Talibaan and she compared india today with germany of hitler. afte munawar farooqi you mentioned talibaan killed a comedian , you having no idea what munawar farooqui said. clearly it is time to unsubscribe this bigotry
Yeah I agree. But I still believe he's shouldn't have been arrested. That's not the way. We should counter him with more comedy. Or cruise hum or mock him for his clear bigotry and hypocrisy.
@@sewaligoswami781 he called mata kaushalya a bitch and in his joke said ram abusing , i mean can you believe this ? is this comedy ? why not he call someone from muhamad prophets family then. you say we should counter him with comedy, can you make jokes on islam and their prophets and be not get killed afterwards ?
@@ritesharora6032 blasphemy against any religion shouldn't be considered a criminal activity in any progressive country.
@@prabal2701 we want same treatment.
Yes most of us believe that blasphemy laws shouldn't be present.
But if they are present they should be present for all religions.
You can find various shows and comedy artist that mock hindu deities but none even touches mohamm@d and his family.
That's the problem.
@@ritesharora6032 can you give a link to the stand-up he said that in?
Beautiful podcast. Shehzad please get Amna Baig on the show. She's the first female SP Of Pakistan. In light of recent events, there's a serious discussion needed about police reforms!
@@ThePakistanExperience :(
great video....
Dude as I am repeating bring in Abhijeet iyer mitra, man has a pleothra of knowledge ranging from gay knowledge, geo politics, subcontinent food, partition, hindutva and history.
Dr. Madhavi - Made all the points in a great way. I too know this and believe atleast Indian people know this in huge majority - 60% I agree,
I too senced some left narrative or I can say that in discussion and not root cause analysis. But rest aside here comes politics. A too left way is dangerous in today's way and too right is dangerous too.
I think that Dr. Calls spade a spade but everybody knows this in india. So, Wandering why it's a queer history of India doesn't give me sense or I can say queer history for Pakistanis seems much good sense
However, great discussion.
Sense ban bhi rahi par nahi bhi ban rahi. Theek bhi lag raha hai aur nahi bhi. It is like you guys blurred the existing lines and drew new ones.
@@ThePakistanExperience fluidity is a colonial notion, if you see old punjabi manuscripts to isay "khichri" kaha jata tha, yani sense na daal hai na chawal, balkay khichri hai, jo daal chawal ho k bhi daal chawal nahi hai, kuch log is k liay dimagh ki dahi aur dahi k raitay ki istelah bhi istemal kartay hain 😡
@@anambutt8127 🙂
@@anambutt8127 if you have born in Pakistan then, I can understand it. Why it's not giving you sence. That part of history might never been tought in Pakistan.
I mean besides what we became due to colonial influences … wouldn’t our culture have evolved regardless? I do have doubts of precolonial values being as good as they are being portrayed as. I would like to hope they were because it kind of gives us hope and helps us feel better about ourselves. But I don’t think they were all that inclusive, but I am probably wrong because I have done zero research of my own 😅 … Ok bye now
@@GG-ur4km where were you born? Were you taught that?
she had me for a second when she talked about victimhood not being solely the purview of a numerical minority... but nope, she meant it in a disparaging "no legitimate concern" way... how disgustingly woke. oh well.
🤔 I don’t get it.. can you give me a time stamp of the conversation that you are referring to?
Shehzad please do some research before interviewing any scholars, and stop interfering them talk with your lame/inappropriate comments.
@@ThePakistanExperience because you invite interesting people 👌🏽
@@ziaulhaq793 bhai ajeeb dawe hain aapke, i am sure people who come to his podcast do know what they are getting into
This is a one sided view on love jihad,pls see 1000s of cases where hindu women r exploited and converted forcefully or by deceit.Why does a woman need to convert when it's love🤦if the agenda is conversion then love goes for a toss.
www.google.com/amp/s/www.opindia.com/2021/07/indore-afzal-15-year-old-golu-instagram-madhya-pradesh-grooming-jihad/amp/
Here is the kerala Christian community up in arms www.google.com/amp/s/theprint.in/politics/love-jihad-cases-should-be-studied-addressed-kerala-congress-m-chief-on-church-view/629731/%3famp
@@prabal2701 I can give u thousands of examples where the mosque drives this vile perverted theology of conversion by marraige,the Qur'an says that ,it's abominable and shameful that the muslim men who have different rules for their women but consider non muslim women as price of meat which needs to be conquered,sick and deviant.The muslim soceity has to talk about it to get rid of this theology.
@@prabal2701 And just fathom this,the majority community is pushing for anti conversion and love jihad rather than the minority,this shows thr aggresor and the victim and sheer bufoonery of ppl to talk about hindutva project but they are the same guys who are not aggresive here,it's the large minority who have this mad zeal of conversion by hook or crook.
Invite Raja Zia ul Haq to discuss these topics. 😉
Pls do long programs in urdu. Itne Der tak English bardast ni hoti. 😜
1:22:00
You should also invite Shashi Tharoor
Well on the gender pronoun topic. my mother tongue is bangla and bangla has no pronouns and is gender neutral. probably why we can also understand bengals bend towards left wing or liberal politics in west bengal.
Invite Sanjay dixit on Sufism real history in india
Sanjay dixit iski baja ke rakh dega....
😂
Sanjay Dixit is a right wing bigot
@@saadraees09 whenever someone exposes something about islam/muslims he is called as bigot, yes good logic , suits you
@@ritesharora6032 the only thing he exposes is his stupidity. Also I’m an atheist, not a Muslim. I couldn’t care less if someone criticizes Islam
بے باک گفتگو 👏👏
Why don't u discuss kamalesh tiwari case ...show some guts....oh sorry fir toh Pakistan mein zinda nahi bachega....
Sufi is beauty parlour of islam
Here is what Khusro writes,
“Turk is like a tiger and the Hindu a deer… Hindus exist for the sake of the Turks. Hindu happens to be a slave in all respects-it does not become one to scowl at a goat which is being reared for one’s meals.” (That’s why Mr. Saif Ali Khan, Hindus have taken an exception to you naming your son, Taimur, for his name is a symbol of Islamic atrocities against the original inhabitants of this land).
If it is a true, such an asshole khusro
Source?
Khusro was half-hindu himself
I mean his mother was hindu
By the way what is the source of this ?
GOOGLE AND FIND OUT FOR YOUSELF.
@@ritesharora6032 what do u mean by search it on google
Kis historian ne Konsi book mei likha hai ye ki khusro ne kabhi aisi baat kahi thi ya likhi thi. Kuch to btao...
Warna bina proof ke to google pr bhot bakwas mil jayegi
Kis kis pr yakeen kare