Finally Growing Up
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- čas přidán 4. 05. 2024
- Today I talk about why I'm finally ready to settle down. Why did it have to be Gnome though?
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Funny you mention tinkering. Over the years, I have gone through some pretty disastrous results trying to tinker with linux. And if it weren't for microsoft offering their ai service that is co-pilot I would have given up on linux. See the thing is, as someone who does not know how to do much programming on linux when it comes to creating scripts, I find my self overly frustrated with how little I find myself capable of taking my ideas to improve my linux experience and making it happen. The easy part is coming up with an idea for something nifty. But making it a reality is a whole different beast. Using copilot in microsoft edge with my microsoft account has enabled me to work with the technology to cobble together templates to utilize. I have it handle the presentation of what the script or service should look like, using it like a reference sheet. I have now taken the liberty of cataloging and storing each guide that it gave me onto my google drive for easy access from any device I currently own. One of the scripts I created was a Cython script that you could run under a python shell that would lead to it cythonizing the given target contained in the script. I created two variants. A file specific variant and a folder specific variant. The folder variant was named to Ccython. The file variant was named to ccython. both relied upon the base cython command. The reason for making two seperate scripts was due to the fact that some python files would break if you took the folder approach. In order to use these scripts properly, the only thing that you had to do is change the target of the script which reduces the requirement of usage to file system paths only. Oh, and just note, you will end up having to do all the work again whenever there is a python update. 3.12 got rid of my old python packages which got rid of the c binaries, so boo.
If you want to be able to stick with gnome, just install the "Forge" extension. Instant, easily customized auto tiling. Whenever I've hopped around before I've always installed it and a couple other extensions that make gnome function much like a window manager visually, with all of the extra bells and whistles/stability gnome provides.
I've been on Hyprland for a hot minute now but I'm considering making the same switch as yourself and will definitely be using Forge at the least if I do.
This guy goes through more desktops and distros than he does shirts.
All my shirts are the same colors. I got a deal!
@@TheLinuxCast So you got a flatpak?
@@drumroll420no he said he snapd up a good deal
what a lame ass drumroll420 joke
when I was in university I had this phase where I just wanted a white shirt and black pants.. coz it fit perfectly. I didn't like spending time walking around in stores choosing cloths.
So I went to the same store and always picked 3-4 of the same shirts and pants.
Monday is for Mint, Tuesday is for Arch, ... 😂
Stability isn't an important consideration until things are unstable, and then suddenly it's the most important thing. But really, it was important the entire time.
That's why I'm on GNOME too. It doesn't bother me or cause me problems. That's all I need it to do.
That's why I'm not on Wayland... because if the most stable fallback is GNOME...
The end screen credits in this one are way, way wrong. Apparently, I pulled from the wrong file, a very old version. So, thanks to all my supporters, even those not listed. I'll get that fixed for the next one.
Dearest Matt, dearest most fav Linux CZcamsr, welcome to adulthood ... :-D Never have I watched a 15 min Linux clip with a smile on my face throughout. Not with Glee, but in recognition and we all end up where you are, sooner or later. I ended up there when I settled for Gentoo and XFCE, that is the most stable as can be, for Me, but I'm all in recognition that stability also depends on environment as a whole, both HW and SW, and use case. Stability for me is scaling back, get back to basics, decide what you really Need and don't fiddle and change things because you can. 😀Do that and stability will follow, so long as you reign yourself in and don't scratch itches as they occur. :-D
We all reach to that conclusion at some point.
I found that "home" in Fedora and Gnome years ago, I'm so used to it now that I don't even bother to customize it anymore, I change the wallpaper and that's about it. I also don't have many (probably 2) extensions installed, once you understand and learn the Gnome workflow you start realizing this or that extension isn't necessary. And I love it!
Same. I run Fedora on my desktop and Debian on my laptop. Both Gnome. 2 maybe 3 extensions. Its just so simple and makes sitting down and getting work done a breeze.
Totally. F40 on my laptop. The only thing I really did was install ufw for simplicity. My decision was dev, toolbox/podman, safe repo, dnf is solid, RH/Fedora funding is like at least x20 what Ubuntu gets. There's no need making a custom iso really. Access to headless images, core, arm. Done deal. F40 was the cleanest install ever for me. Maybe a deal breaker is problems with the xwayland fallback, non-Wayland ported apps. Tilix disappears on me. I assume client side decorators on the titlebar.
I can't wrap my head around having a desktop without a minimize and maximize button
@@Furn427 I have maximize and restore as keyboard shortcuts or double click on the titlebar, I can't remember the last time I minimized a window, I usually bring the window I need to the front or to another virtual desktop. But that is a very personal decision, no right or wrong either way.
I feel you. Started using windows managers 3 years ago and ended up sticking with kde. Certain tools would break and mess up my config. I just wish DEs had window manager functionality when it comes to opening and rearranging windows.
Never been so early, thank you Matt for what you do for the Linux community
I wanted to write a comment about KDE 6 being actually very stable, but then I realized my system tray was broken for the last week because arch shipped new version of Qt which changed policy for windows sizes on wayland which made system tray windows being literally 1x1 pixel rectangle so,,,
KDE Plasma and Arch - what a combo!
It's hard for me to take the "KDE is stable" comments seriously because I was seeing it when I tried KDE last year, and I couldn't even run it for an hour without something going seriously wrong.
Maybe it's better now, but I've seen a couple of the "KDE is stable" asserters retract that within days after using KDE 6, so I'm still skeptical. Might try it again one of these days if I brick my current setup though.
@@ordinaryhuman5645 Same here. People love to hate on GNOME and drool all over KDE, but for me at least GNOME has always been rock solid and the workflow just makes sense, while KDE causes me nothing but headaches when I've tried to run it.
I feel this video is like a deja vu... Of Matt saying the same lol.
This video is definitely about Matt switching to GNOME.
I hop between Mint and more Mint, and that way I get work done which is why I have a computer in the first place.
Distro hopping is like Bar hopping. You Bar hop until you find your forever love, then get married forever and ever🥰
You described the reason I still have a Mac. Sometimes I just need something that works, ... snappy too. Besides, I loved BSD back in the day
What I ended up getting tired of was trying to set up multitouch touchpad services for non gnome environments. Gnome is kind of dialed out of the box for laptops, despite having some minor limitations.
I think the hopping thing comes with the nature of OSS, projects may become better in some aspects to their "competition", some become obsolete or unmaintained. All package managers, window managers or even distros do basically the same. Hopping at the end it's just researching, when you find the things that actually work like you expect them to work you find the stability you mentioned in the video. Thanks for the good work man!
Exactly it becomes necessary periodically to re-evaluate. Once you find something you tend to stick with it for awhile until the next catalyst occurs.
I must be growing up also , I have stuck with stock gnome for the last 3 months
>there come a point you get tired of tinkering.
Yes. This is why having good defaults is so good and why I don't use WMs that require conifguration and tinkering. The only change in conifguration I did on my current desktop (KDE plasma) is change of main wallpaper and login wallpaper (lock screen still has default). Software should serve the users, not the other way around. Oh, I use KDE because it came out of the box in garuda, which I use because it worked unlike others. It installed wifi firmware and nvidia drivers. I didn't had to tinker. In other distros I tried I couldn't figure out in several minutes. Don't want to.
I 100% understand you. I was like you, trying everything, twice a day even more. Then I make the decision to choose one and stick with it. I choose Debian for example. And I stick to Debian, not because I don't see the value of OpenSuse or Fedora, or others; it's because I make the decision to stop hopping. I needed that to stop procrastinating. And I did the same with desktop environments, terminals, browsers, etcetera.
I'm happy on Cinnamon, if i had to leave it would be KDE. I like options
I'm waiting for cinnamon to be wayland ready.
Every time I want to settle with KDE I get the "The screen locker is broken and unlocking is not possible anymore" error forcing a reboot. It's so frustrating
Weird thing that works for me is alt-tabbing like its an out of focus window.
Sure, can't really see what's in focus, but if you just keep going one at a time then you'll hit it eventually. I use Debian, though, so it's KDE 5 I'm using.
Is this really still a problem in newer versions?
Just wait until a major upgrade breaks your favorite extensions.
Most extentions get updated really fast! Lol, still better than the tray literally disappearing, animations glitching, and the screen turning blank.
Even when I was running Arch with Gnome, installing the pop-shell extension was great for having all the stability of Gnome + a decent window tiler. It's not as fluid as Hyprland or anything like that, but it does the job. Back on Pop now because certain things are just too much of a pain to do on Arch, and sometimes I just want to click a button and have something work while I'm working.
Fedora Workstation is, without a doubt, the very best vanilla GNOME experience in the entire Linux ecosystem. Nothing else comes even remotely close.
I actually just tried fedora 40 when it released it was the first time I ever tried Fedora and I was very sad when I saw that they didn't have FreeCAD in the repositories. I was literally like what??? I mean I could have just used distrobox and spin up a Debian container to install it but then I was like I'm just going to install Debian itself.
you can end up with malware such as xz utils because using SW that early has those problems where you are the guinea pig
Officially supported in flathub, what's the deal ?
@@laminathith2530 The deal was something as simple as FreeCAD is not available in a distribution. It's in Debian for crying out loud. Yeah flat packs are there but come on.
@@markjones2349 its on flathub
GNOME may not be necessarily pretty, but is very functional and reminds me of an Android-like exploration of the system (as opposed to Win-like), which is very handy for me. And runs well, no major issues for me, that's why I use it for work.
The only issues I had, and those were with my hardware - were problems getting the PC to suspend and wake up properly. Thankfully to one of your podcasts, I learned about gnome-power-manager, installed it and it fixed it for me, so now everything works well.
It's whole point is pretty.
ADD would be a great name for a new Distro
Every time you log in, it starts you in a different DE/WM, chosen at random.
It's why I've switched to Aeon (formerly SUSE Micro OS Desktop). My main login everything works, and I tinker in a distrobox. Best of both worlds.
i just use nixos...
i really want to install openSUSE Aeon, but I'm still waiting for an official release. I tested it in like October last year, and it was nice! I'm leaving my Win10 at the end of this June, but I don't want to go with ChromeOS 'coz I can't install anything on it, and Aeon looks like my best bet for writing novels on and creating illustrated book covers. I've been waiting eight months, now, and it's still in "Release Candidate" status, not even Alpha or Beta. I'm scared if it's "not ready yet". Do you know when Aeon version 1.0 shall be released? Thanks. :)
@@ericodionneviglione9426 release candidate indicates a project is further along than alpha and beta. that being said, aeon will have a major change for how it is installed when it releases compared to now which *might* introduce problems for RC installations in the future so waiting for full release is not a bad idea
@@ericodionneviglione9426 The new aeon installer will back up your home as part of the install, as long as you give it a big enough usb boot stick. So you can run the current and when the new shows up you'll be good to go. The current one is doing the job fine, why wait? :-)
I'm proud of you, Matt. Honestly, I don't like the Attitude of the GNOME Devs sometimes, but the Desktop is stable! Not as feature rich as Plasma, but pretty stable! And at least imo the best Wayland experience. Your rice looks awesome btw!!!
openSUSE GNOME has almost the same vibes as Debian GNOME. There comes just one word to my mind - stable.
Sleek, modern, stylish, stable, fast, snappy, polished. I can think of a few words that describe gnome tbh. Bloat-free would be my main tbh. A great desktop that's "cool" to hate, but anyone doing any serious level of work should be using it. It's not even funny how much better an experience it is.
@@TrolleyTrampInc Yep, I also noticed there is a lot of GNOME "hate". I mean I can understand some arguments, but there is a reason why RedHat, SUSE and Canonical default to GNOME.
+ I agree with all the adjectives you've listed.
The only thing I dislike, is the lack of a tray. I just like to add a tray extension + blur my shell.
@@TrolleyTrampInc GNOME is by far the most popular DE, for good reason. It gets such disproportionate hate online because the people using GNOME are actually using it to get stuff done instead of arguing about it in its defense online.
The most stable distros ship gnome I have no issues with it.
Yeah, when you look at the most popular distros, in terms of actual installations, they're pretty much all shipping GNOME as default. Most people use GNOME. Obviously, there's good reasons for that. The KDE fans are loud online, and WM fans are heavily over-represented among Linux influencer types. But ultimately, the people who just want to get stuff done without any fuss are just quietly using GNOME.
I bounced off gnome and kde a couple times. I landed with Cinnamon and will just wait for Wayland.
Hahaha. Na na na na na na. Wayland and gnome. Awesome 😎
Stability is underrated
I've constantly been battered for using gnome. KDE fans have gone absolutely wild every time I've said it's better than any other DE. But you can't beat its stability. It just works. It gets out of your way and lets you do work.
KDE will never match it with its current design philosophy, too many Devs all adding their individual features for their individual needs, adding another option in a random gui for the sake of choice rather than thinking about the project collectively. It's ultimately bloatware and nobody will convince me otherwise.
Personally I use Hyprland on arch but whenever I bump into issues I load up gnome and it's ready to go, no issues, every single time. I prefer the aesthetic and modern design too. The only downside is the overview and huge dock but I just use Wofi.
It's cool to hate on gnome I get it, but anyone that uses it after spending time in KDE will see how much more polished it is. How much more of a complete desktop it is and how far KDE is behind.
KDE fans are loud online, but in the real world GNOME is used by way more people. Most people just want to get work done and not be bothered. But the kind of people who want to tinker and make their DE part of their identity (to be defended online) will always gravitate to those DEs like KDE.
To help you swallow the GNOME pill maybe you should install the forge gnome shell extension since you are a tilling window manager guy. Il works really well.
the keybindings are weird and conflict with stock gnome keybinds, its really annoying to set it up.
Thr only tiling extension that doesn't seem to "fight" with Mutter is Tiling Assistant. Every other tiling extension is either too fresh off the boat to daily drive, or doesn't play nice with the default desktop keybindings.
Stability combined with function has been my goal from the start when I switched from Windows. Fortunately, I found it early on and have been allowed to get work done for nearly three years now.
I'm on Gnome as well, can't remember why... but loading Plasma didn't work for me after about 10 minutes.
Do you use extension?
same didn't feel right chief
@@Rthabett i have 5 extensions very stable
@@Rthabett I don't write my own extensions. However, I think I would write panel widgets. I'm still using gkrellm and I think reltime graphs would work well in Plasma's Panels.
It all comes down to Fedora and Gnome for me. I've always been tempted for Debian, but I have never used it yet.
Debian is fine if you don't mind the ancient packages.
Debian with Gnome is where I ended up. It just works.
Same! I've been on Debian since Bookworm was released, which is by far the longest I've stayed on a distro.
I would so love to stick to Debian + Gnome, but I just could never get my games to run well enough there. Even with the Steam Flatpak. So I ended up on Fedora.
Just set that up on my laptop today! Feels like home. I wish I could get it working well on my desktop though unfortunately.
@@GarrettValdivia Trying to play games on Debian is like trying to order meat in a vegan restaurant, it won't go well. Debian is a workstation OS, similar to centOS.
arch + xfce here. I noticed most bugs come from the DE, and not much the distro itself and xfce is pretty clean and stable. It works well with arch
Home PopOS ❤
Hehe, you are indeed growing up, dear Padawan. I went from arch and i3 to Debian stable (in the form of MX Linux) and Gnome. The absolute opposite.
And I love it. Stability is the key....
Regarding the 'distro' i did the same; hopped around and stuff. Spent a looooong time on Ubuntu from 12.04 to 22.04. then discovered Garuda - in my case the Dragonized thing. It's so _pretty_ and it's up-to-date. I may change again, but I'm not motivated right now...
Agreed if it Wayland Gnome is the best option for stability. For me it's Debian-Xfce rock solid stability I have traveled the distro for many year over and find I always returned to Debian.
I've been using Debian Xfce for VMs lately, and on old hardware. Anything I don't need to do anything too serious with.
been using Gnome for a little over a year. Only second options I'd try out for stability would be cinnamon. At first, I had reservations because Gnome is a "default" but it is that for good reason. In my experience, it just works
Good vid
I always come back to gnome because it doesn't have any weird random issues you get pretty much anywhere else, so I'm also thinking I should finally just stop switching. Also vanilla gnome feels almost as minimal as a WM which is good.
Yeah, if you use GNOME you don't really need to think about it at all. It just does what it needs to and doesn't bother you.
Sometimes I wish Nautilus was a bit better in little ways here and there, but it's been progressing. The latest version is pretty nice.
the gnome secret love fantasy was true all along
Zorin - nuff said. It's solid running even kde.
Dude are you literally me? I'm not kidding:
- my name is also Matt
- i also switched distros a lot and ended up stabilizing on arch (endeavouros)
- then i started switching WMs a lot, but not a single one satisfied me 100%
- my main one was hyprland
- then i settled on XFCE + i3 for a week or so
- but i wanted Wayland
- so i switched to Plasma, but it's buggy and overall doesn't feel right
- I'm finally back to Gnome
lol the similarities are uncanny
But the bottom line is that the Desktop Environment should stay out of the way, you should be able to forget it and focus on the work. That's how you know it's a keeper.
I never got the distrohop thing. I switched to Linux 3 years ago and my only disto has been Arch. For DEs/WMs went KDE -> Qtile -> Hyprland for the past year.
Same here. Slackware for 20 years. I'd rather learn programming ...
@@keto6789 This. It's nice to know a little about the options Linux provides, but you will get more done if you just pick one (distro/DE) and keep using it. That time is better spent in actual software, be it programming or actual productivity software.
I rarely change much on my setups now, I've done my tinkering over the years and have it to the point where it suits my needs. Occasionally I have to change something up due to an update but apart from that.
"There comes a time in every man's life where you just need shit to work" Join the greybeard club! Can you make a tshirt out of that quote? :-D
I agree about the tinkering. It gets to a point where the usual stuff to mess with, like wms and so on, become superficial and just not worth it. I think the more interesting things is what you can do beyond that
That's why I have a macbook as a work laptop. It's stable, I don't have to mess with it and I have access to all the command line tools I need to work on Linux servers.
I tinkered for nearly 25 years to find what I wanted, and realized there's not much to be gained by distro hopping if all that is required is to have a stable and usable system. I went from (an abbreviated selection from the list) Window Maker on Redhat 5 to Icewm, to KDE, and to Openbox on Debian 12 where I'm now comfortable.
Unfortunately, I will want something similar on Wayland, so I've begun learning how to make Labwc as close as possible to my current setup. For those not satisfied by standard DEs, tinkering is required, at least until it is as close to perfect as possible. After that, it's (mostly) smooth sailing, partly because to recreate the config on a new system, just copy the files from a previous install.
I have been a distro hopper, too. For now I am very happy with Ubuntu server (Pro) and openbox. And 22.04 (Pro) is supported until 2032! Ubuntu is as stable as Debian.
I love Ubuntu server. Easy to get up and running and configured how I want it. Never gives me trouble. Stable as can be. I've been tempted to move away from Ubuntu on the desktop, but I fully expect I'll be sticking with Ubuntu LTS on all my servers for many years to come.
After years of experimenting with various distros (including arch and gentoo), various window managers, DEs and configurations, ive found debian + gnome to be my end game. I can trust my computers to update, restart and work like expected every time.
I absolutely get that. I recently moved to Ubuntu and I'm thinking it might be my Linux forever home. Even though everyone seems to have some type of issue with it, for one reason or another.
For myself, it's perfect. It has a few interesting flavors I want to check out, as well.
It's more like people have issues with Canonical. It's a really solid distro. It's Debian done right, and still benefits from all the massive upstream work being done. If Canonical wasn't involved and trying to push snaps, it would be even bigger than it is and nobody would really be able to argue with it.
The Ubuntu Server is also my favorite of all the server-oriented distros. Comes with everything I need out of the box and nothing I don't. Very easy set-up and config. Even if I ever switch away from Ubuntu on the desktop (which I'm seriously considering of late), I expect to keep my servers running Ubuntu.
Gnome is pretty dang stable. My Plasma 6 was amazing until I added a theme to my Hyprland that sat next to my Plasma (arcolinux Plasma Hyprland and Wayfire great combo UNTIL I went overboard on Hyprland theming add ons, add that to updates from Plasma 6 and my Plasma broke, Hyprland is more stable for me these days!). Ill be installing Gnome again tomorrow. Need more stability myself lol.
I've been using Arch+Gnome on my laptop for 3 years now, 1.5 of those - doing my actual job on it. I haven't had any major issues with it whatsoever.
At work I manage Mac and windows and then I manage a bunch of Ubuntu servers so i more so using a Gnome style desktop which makes me tend to use Gnome at home on all my machines, Despite any negativity towards it it has always been stable for me on every distro I've ran
GNOME is by far the most popular DE. There's good reasons for that. It gets a lot of hate from the loudest voices in the Linux community, but that's mainly because the people just using Linux to get stuff done aren't bothering to get into online fights in the community to defend the GNOME they're using while they're getting stuff done.
Weirdly enough, I haven't had any problems with plasma lately, 5 and 6. And I use it on my main pc for work and personal stuff, so the whole freaking day every day. It's been quite stable, on my main laptop screen 1440p 144hz and my secondary screen 4k 60hz, no weird issues with the refresh rate or scaling, it's been working perfect. Maybe I'm just lucky?
Thanks for the video. For me, stability has been Kubuntu LTS.
It is weird for me how I love tiling window managers and i've been living in Gnome for a few months and I love it now. I'm just killing time until Cosmic.
I really hope Cosmic lives up to the hype, and is pretty stable pretty soon. It could really take the Linux world by storm if it's as good as aims to be.
Yup, in the past always ran into issues with drivers, dependencies, package managers etc. A few months ago installed Mint XFCE on a machine and it just worked. Ditched Win10 on my main machine a week ago and it's all stable. The only time it played up was when going into some power saving mode, which I've since switched off. Can't wait for XFCE to finish their work on Wayland so I can get the Wayland snappiness, otherwise I'm very content. I couldn't care for hyprland, we have a GUI why not use it. No problem with the odd terminal session, but I only do it if I have to. I prefer to actually use my computer and not just fiddle with it all the time.
maybe the new cosmic desktop could turn out to be something for you
Stability is a feature of Rust, after all. 🙂🕶🤏😎
COSMIC is already more stable than GNOME.
I think a lot of us are hoping Cosmic will end up being that. Unfortunately it probably be at the stable level for a few more years. In the meantime, I'm using GNOME.
@@fakecubed
currently I am on nixos with sway
could imagine going cosmic if it turns out to be good with good tiling
I jump on Opensuse leap for abit I wanted something abit more stable just want to relax enjoy my time for now. So far as right now is not bad maybe in a year I may need something abit more new.
I use wayland, and gnome due to less issue's and work mint of touch. Play is to build a distro in long term which is hypervisor/container based but so simple to use you can use only a touch to manage VMs and containers. I going to start by learning who to build a custom kernel to run it on. For my mini PC which is for media streaming and network service's I use Fedora WS or silverblue on only a N100 intel AV1 decoding is great. And 4Core is enought to run what I need office wise. My main currently dead machine is an ITX i3 12th gen build. Gnome come to life on touch. And stability wise I use Fedora and Gnome for 7 years bug and all. Plasma Love the idea to many setting to get head aroud and putting K at the beginning of app is annoying, and the panel bar trys to do to much and on the latest fedora 40 is buggy as hell. At 4K Gnome is sweet.
understandable, i use gnome with paperwm on fedora )
i remember times of i3wm and bspwm, i even used them inside xfce wm
Only watched the first few minutes as I type this, but I’m excited to hear about you switching to macOS.
And now Matt understands why I use cinnamon / LMDE :). Its boring but it works and is stable
Perfectly reasonable choice. Not my preference, but I've never criticized anyone for choosing any version of Mint.
I started with Linux Mint, switched to Debian, and now I use antiX and I will not switch from it. It's very lightweight yet can do pretty much everything. I don't need fancy desktop environments or whatever, so it's all good.
That came as a surprise. I was sure you were going to say sway.
I don't care for manual tilers nor do I like th way it handles workspaces on multiple monitors
@@TheLinuxCast Adding autotiling is pretty easy but I don't know anything about multiple monitors. I use gnome myself and like it for the most part. I hope you don't get too frustrated so you have to switch again!
I'm trying Budgie for similar reasons, I like GNOME but I want some independence, so that's the sweet spot, I think
I've got you a title: @HomeWithGnome :)
next thing you know you will be outside touching grass
I've been doing that! Three weeks now, going outside and moving around every day
@@TheLinuxCastthe good ending
@@TheLinuxCast That's great, even if a little bit, a little is more than nothing. There's more to life than a sitting penguin that works only half the time.
@@TheLinuxCast Finding the balance is such a cool thing for the long term, keep at it!
@@TheLinuxCast happy for you! it's been the same for me for a while now.
coindedentally I decided on a whim to nuke my kde install today and go with fedora 40 and stock gnome, no extensions. Honestly, really good minimal, I like the workflow.
Fedora 40 seems like a great distro. I'm tempted to spin up a VM and just play around with it a bit. I don't have much experience with the RPM world, but I would like to get more experience with it. I've been living in DEB land pretty much the whole time I've been using Linux.
Almoat perfectly describes my personal development with distros/DEs 😂
If you want very stable + Wayland + Tiling, then there is also Sway as an option, instead of using the currently under heavy development hyprland.
I sympathize with the need to get stuff done. The motive to work with Wayland specifically is more on the end of having "needy hardware", which is something that a lot of professional setups fall into. If Gnome works, it's hard to argue with that, but the solution otherwise(in ye olde times, when nothing exactly worked right on Linux) would probably be to devise simpler and simpler configurations, possibly using multiple single-purpose machines and employing networking and file-system shenanigans to make things feel more seamless. And using the terminal more to do everything because so many of the graphical apps would have missing features and you'd have to come up with some kind of script to get the job done.
I recall back in the early 2000's, I was visiting my older brother as he was finishing his undergraduate degree, and his roommate at the time had this unreasonable multi-computer BSD/Linux setup. He had hacked things such that the mouse, when it reached the edge of the screen on one machine, started sending inputs to the other machine, and vice-versa.
Right now I am a MATE user. I might switch to Budgie or XFCE though, since Solus is pushing those as the way to transition to Wayland.
I’ve just started using Linux for real for real and have used it as my main os other than booting into windows for Roblox as I haven’t found a way to play that on Linux since they made it so wine doesn’t work afaik and vr since my face tracking is only a windows file
Hyprland + Arch has surprisingly been smooth sailing zero issues which surprises me since a lot of people call it buggy
TLDR: I use Hyprland with Arch and It’s surprisingly stable
As someone who likes stability I tried GNOME multiple times already, but it's just no for me. I dislike the standard layout with the two bars, the non-intuituve applications menu, the full screen "app list" etc., customizing it is a mess and Gnome Extensions are buggy as hell more often than not... So I happily will stay on Xfce for the foreseeable future. Let's hope Xfce makes the jump to Wayland soon.
Cinnamon is pretty great too, but it's so tightly integrated with Mint's ecosystem that only really using it on Mint makes sense in my eyes (like I do on one of my spare computers).
It is not as black/white as "growing up" and "needing more stability". With experience you do learn how to easily fix it if something does go wrong: find the cause and roll back whatever software broke during an update. Most of the time. The one difficult broken package in Arch which I had was when EAC quit working due to glibc being compiled in the 'wrong' way. Figuring out that EAC broke was easy enough but you wouldn't expect glibc to be the problem.
The thing about actually stable distros and DEs, is there's no need to fix anything, no matter how easy it might be. It just works.
I'm sad that after 10 years I still can't go back to Linux, as it looks like it is still a nightmare for desktop usage.
I've been away from Linux since 2014~2015 just because at that time I had, screen tearing, problems with UEFI destroying my grub, updates messing with my nginx, not a really good terminal like iTerm 2, a bunch of stuff that didn't work, being scared of projectors, TVs, bluetooth speakers, bluetooth keyboards, and finally something broke my Desktop Environment when I needed to work.
Been using MacOS ever since with almost no problem, I can't even remember the last problem, and I think it didn't affected my work, even M1 had docker at the ready when I bought this newer laptop.
Me too, I'm still waiting for Linux, but in my case I'm running WSL. About the terminal , Wezterm is Pretty good
@@micaelviana yes better terminals are available nowadays but that's true for non linux OSes also, I want stability and support, so I can just sit down, smash my "submit git commit -am 'whatever you say boss' && git push" quickly and go back to being a nerd, I don't know watching YT videos about better tech that what my job uses with no screen tearing. is that too much to ask?
Most Linux users are chugging along just fine on Ubuntu or Fedora with GNOME, no issues at all. Linux CZcamsrs tend to do strange things with their computers and use less stable stuff, creating a perception that Linux is "still a nightmare" when it really isn't for normal people.
You'd be wrong if you just look at Matt's struggles. To say that Linux today is the same as 9 years ago is just wrong. Sorry, it is. It's like telling me System 7 and MacOS Sonoma are the same as some Apple haters have done. It doesn't pass the smell test at all.
As far as terminals, Konsole is damn good and I say this as someone who also has an M2 Max Macbook that I use iTerm2 .. well, really iTerm3.4.x ;)
If MacOS works for you ... cool. It's why I have both a desktop Linux machine and a Macbook. I need both tools. The thing to remember is not to be *that* guy who says " this sucks, but I haven't seen/used it in years. Ya know? It's bad form. It's as bad as the BTW dudes.
@@fakecubed but but but but, IT SUCKS! 🤣 maybe I will give it a try this year, but I have almost no faith in it, my guess is that it will bring me pain and shame, I still remember not being able to boot in front of a client, that's simply unacceptable.
What worked for me on KDE is to turn off source detection on the monitors. I'm not sure it is working that way, but my take it is that KDE scans itself too...and that is interfering than with the monitor scan. Anyway, It might be of help to others with that issue. After that no issues at all in KDE.
i stuck with fedora gnome but probably gonna try cosmic in the future
If Cosmic ends up being nice and stable, I think a lot of GNOME users will be trying it out and seeing if they like it better. I give it a few years before it gets to the point where I'll probably be willing to try it.
Not usually a commenter, but I get it. I think stability is what we're all trying to achieve, but often thinghopping sounds too appealing...
It's natural to think the grass is greener on the other side of the fence, but serious people who want to get serious work done also know that hopping around from one thing to another is a luxury that gets in the way of that work.
For me, I just stick to a stable DE on a stable distro and daily drive that. But if I want to play around with other stuff I'll spin up a VM and tinker around in that in my off hours. It's good to learn about other new things, and if it ever turns out that the grass actually is greener, I can file that knowledge away, and the next time I have a new PC or server, I might consider installing that other thing instead of my usual.
I feel like there's some sort of limited budget for unique options you can make. Want a new version of P but need an old version of Q? Heard that X is faster than Y, but it doesn't work with Z? The further you go from the defacto standard, the harder that push up the hill seems to get.
I got a similar experience. Been experimenting with all sorts of distros and DEs / WMs.
Ultimately I settled with Fedora and Gnome. There is no point for me going for anything other than Debian, Arch or Fedora. I want a good balance of stability and features so I stick with Fedora.
The thing I am really missing though is tearing support on wayland Gnome. For my osu! session I have to switch to xorg.
If I were you, I'd have a drive setup for tinkering and a drive setup for production. That way, if you blow up your tinkering system (or drive), it doesn't impact your actual work. I do this with all of the OSes, including Windows (updates can be dicey with Windows).
Drives are cheap now. Why not?
I use VMs if I want to play around and try new things. I don't mess around with my daily driver system.
I am placing my bets on Cosmic.
Gnome is super stable IMHO, Plasma also tend to cause me issues. Gnome is a productive DE, but it may take some time to get used to it.
Hmm i might try gnome again.
It's in a good state at the moment.
YES COME TO THE DARK SIDE! GNOME IS THE WAY!!!!!!
I like remapping the capslock for control and using control+# to switch workspaces.
You might like the newer openSUSE Aeon, which is GNOME, transactional updates, and the creator's ethos is exactly what you describe, to stop the tinkering and get work done.
I've pretty much settled with Fedora Atomic, specifically uBlue's version of it. NixOS is something that I'll use on my old laptop where I might want it to have a GUI some days and then be a server the rest of the year, but I need something that's more Just Works than that for my main daily driver. Hence Fedora Atomic - they put out a good base that Just Works with a lot of customization tools that makes it easy to change stuff, as well as the infra to make it be the default for future reinstall/restores. And hey, if I get bored, with either option I can just easily switch tracks. Fedora Atomic and NixOS is where it's at, man....
My distrohooping ended when I installed opensuse Tumbleweed Gnome. And I have gone through all the major Linux distributions (Debian, Arch, Ubuntu and Fedora), but there is none that offers you a system as complete and secure as opensuse. Its only weak point in my opinion is the slowness of zypper.
xfce is the most stable with 10 years of experience
The problem is they're not on Wayland yet.
Stability means different things to different people. I found OpenSUSE very stable in the sense that I couldn't ever update the damned thing. So no changes, no updates, very stable. LOL. If by stable you mean no crashes, that is often a complex set of factors with all the software installed and the fit to the hardware. These can be highly idiosyncratic with all these gamerboy systems. This is also why the reply, it worked for me, doesn't mean much when the systems are all so idiosyncratic.
What drove me to that point was building multiple portable gaming machines for our local fighting game community. As much as I wanted to run Linux, probably Chimera OS or some other gaming focused distro, certain games not working day 1 kinda bothered me. I had to move to Windows for those machines. Arch on my daily driver's given me too enough issues this past month where I decide to not even bother editing or gaming on it and just do light shit on my Mac instead. Sometimes you just have shit to do. I'll likely be wiping this machine soon and reinstalling Nobara but stability matters when you just want to DO shit. I'll never ditch Linux but a Mac will always have its place in my environment for that alone.
I've heard good things about Nobara.