BSA Gold Star - Did Royal Enfield miss a 'golden' opportunity to take the world by storm?
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- čas přidán 29. 08. 2024
- A very much 'Clubman's racing' spec BSA Gold Star 350 which I recently worked on provided me with my first ride on such a machine and it got me thinking about the Royal Enfield 350 classic racing machine I built and developed, with help and input from my brother, Ian, who has been the rider most of the time when it has raced. I started to wonder whether Royal Enfield really missed a trick 'back in the day', or whether they just weren't interested in building what could have been a very serious threat to any other single cylinder 350 race bikes of the era - and there could also have been a road going version, to compliment the 250 Continental GT, perhaps going by the name of 'Continental TT'? Who knows, we can only wonder, as I do. Both the BSA and RE racer are seen and discussed here, while I wonder what might have been ...
These chats are priceless 🎉
Missed opportunities, the story of the British motorcycle industry!!
Would have could have and should have, the motto of the British motorcycle industry .
Thanks Paul. Not only was the video extremely interesting but so were the comments below. Well done evryone and a Happy New Year.
Thanks! Happy new year!
Merry Christmas Paul. Thanks for such interesting and knowledgeable videos that always create interesting watching. Good on ya M8 :)
A very valid point regarding the output of the 350 Goldie. Crying out for more comprehension 👍
Longer duration cam timing indeed requires a hgher geometric compression ratio due to the cylinder pressure bleed off effect of earlier opening and later closing valve red event.
Generally, the the more valve duration the more the compression ratio required to make it work properly.
'compression' sorry - autocorrect
Bit late to this but a couple of points about the Goldstar from 'Goldie - a development history of the Goldstar' by A.Golland. The compression ratio was raised from a nominal 8.5:1 to 9:1 on the final 350s (presumably the DB) but the advent of 100 octane fuel prompted experiments on raising CR. It had to go to 10.5:1 before there was any power increase but it was accompanied by a loss in reliability and not adopted in production. Probably the rivetted crankshaft finding it all a bit too exciting.
Another point is that the silencing changed from the CB to the DB Clubman's model. Changes to the Clubman's TT rules required a silencer for the race and the standard B series silencer was ditched in favour of the later non-silencing version. A 1954 road test of a Clubman's CB32 said the standard silencer limited the engine to 5700rpm but a straight through exhaust with extension allowed it to reach 102mph at 7000rpm. The DB series would have had cams and carburettor developed to work with the later 'silencer'. Would be interesting to know if the example you worked on had everything optimised for the silencing it now uses. They also needed a minimum viable squish clearance to give of their best.
The Gold Star was probably the most highly developed British motorcycle (even if it was compromised by having to fit in with the production of the rest of the B series) and it evidently paid off in that the Clubman's TT had become a Goldie only event by the mid 50s. It started off with Nortons, Douglases, Triumphs and Royal Enfields (AMC didn't seem to be interested) being used as well as BSAs. There were advantages to being the largest motorcycle manufacturer in the world in the eraly/mid 50s in having the money for an expensive development programme which the other, comparatively small, manufacturers couldn't match.
Great comparison very interesting Happy Christmas ATB for 2024 👍
Thanks, and Happy Christmas!
I have an SRX600 and was surprised at how mild the cam was and how low the compression was @ 8.5 : 1 - I can now see that the mild cam means at low revs the mixture gets the full compression while a hotter cam gets a bit of blowback effectively lowering the actual compression - I tend to use the stomping mid-range so I'm happy with the flexibility
Back in 1964, I bought a Royal Enfield Continental.....very up to date for the time. Flyscreen, red fibre tank, racing seat, drop bars, and was a great bike.....and it had one more gear than other bikes of the time. A forgotten classic !
I can remember talking to a foreman of mine 40 yrs ago about classic racing. He had a shortstroke 350 manx at the time which he refered to as a camshft norton. When he had finished puffing his chest out saying they were the best I retorted well how do you explain about Steve Lindsel winning against "camshaft" norton's. Well he blew his top shouting that the internals were probably manx! I got a lot of satisfaction over that I won't mention his name as he has done so much good for the motorcycle cause and is still active at nearly 80.
Enfield did make a remarkable competitive bike to challenge Bonnys, BSA Goldys and even my 99ss Norton, it was the Conny, Constellation 700cc that EVERY time would pee all over us! The rider was an absolute head case so that probably helped but after 6 years it was completely oil tight with no obvious rattles or other issues.
Many thanks Paul, we really enjoy everything you post on youtube , are Ian and the Enfield on the circuits in 2024 ?Thanks again and best wishes from the West Country.
Royce Creasey, in early "Bike" editions, often waxed prosaic on the potential of the 350 Bullet
Racing never gets old Paul! Got to love it!👍🏍️
BSA stopped developing the Goldie to focus on the A65, I'm sure the Competions Dept knew there was more to come. Gold Stars are now pushing 50hp with stronger cranks.
So is our RE 500 racer, the 350 has about 34 bhp @ rear wheel.
BSA stopped developing the Goldie to focus on an A7 model, A65 was developed much later than that.
@@adammedyna2365 You may be right but the A7 was a very different beast to the B34.
CRACKING VIDEO MATE, ENJOYED THAT.
What an amazing machine your Bullet is (if that description is apt), I never knew that a 350 semi unit engine could be squeezed into a 250 frame. I had a Redditch 350 Bullet in the late 1970's that would do 95mph, it amazed many of my RE detracting friends. I was always a RE admirer and had 250's, 350's, 500 twins, 700 twins and also a series 2 Interceptor which I obtained from Holders' in Birmingham, who at the time were machining castings including some RE parts.
I had always wanted a 500cc Trifield with a genuine Daytona engine, in a CGT chassis, but alas I never managed to obtain one.
Anyway Paul, I always enjoy your videos, especially those with Royal Enfield content, thanks for having the foresight to make them, and please keep them coming!
Cheers,
Eve
Thank you Eve!
nice one Paul its your hard work that gone into that bike its made paying off and developed it to win also thank you for time on CZcams av a happy Christmas all the best and more for the new year keep up the show thank you cheers
Thank you!
It is called 'valve overlap'. This is the amount in degrees that both the exhaust and intake valves are open at the same time. By having the intake valve open earlier than T.D.C. on the exhaust stroke, the 'velocity' of the exhaust gasses leaving the combustion chamber at high R.P.M. actually pulls air/fuel mixture into the firing chamber. This causes a 'scavenging effect' of swirling gasses in the chamber, which helps to remove more of the exhaust gasses resulting in better 'volumetric efficiency' during the intake stroke. 😜
Also... Merry X-Mas, Paul. Good things in the New Year. Lubs ya... 😝
Happy Christmas Paul. Some interesting ideas to ponder there.
Happy Christmas. An interesting video.
Merry Christmas to you too Paul
Really interesting. If only RE had had the foresight to do it.
Merry Christmas Paul thank you for your insights and great depth of knowledge every day is a school day and i for one very much appreciate being educated 👍
Thanks and Happy Christmas!
t`was a brilliant edifying comparison,backed up with your
hands on experience paul, i feel that sense of what could have been
if only,,!! i owned a honda SP2 ,what a beautiful lump that bike had in it,
and handled like a dream, why on earth could triumph not produce
such a beast with modern manufacturing potential at their disposal
if there was one wish before i croak it, a triumph V-TWIN to rival
all others, that is the one void in motorcycling history.
Excellent. Thanks
Really fascinating!
It sounds as if the CB32 is a clubman's racer saddled with a touring piston. The original build sheet if it can be traced would not only show the parts fitted, but would also give the actual output measured on BSA's Heenan and Froude dynamometer, as all Gold Stars were so tested. If they were to be found lacking, they were rebuilt until the problem had been eliminated. Too many Goodies are ridden by folk wearing slippers as having fun can severely impair an investment.
Very interesting that.thankyou
Another informative video. Thanks. Is that an image of a kiwi on the 'Enfield 350 fuel tank?
Thanks - and yes, that's a Kiwi, my brother's tribute to a friend from NZ who lost his life racing on the IOM.
I asked about the kiwi, as I'm a British expat, now living in New Zealand. I'm currently refurbishing a 1959 Royal Enfield Constellation that I had shipped from the UK. One or two (or three or four) issues with the machine, but not quite as bad as an A65 can be! All the best for Christmas, and keep the videos coming in 2024.
I must be greedy or lucky for I own a dbd 34 and a 500 Redditch Fury in a bsa frame. Shortened barrel, S cams, but after two rod failures I swapped the RE rod and crank pin for dbd ones. This made for a excellent fast road bike with good reliability with not much performance difference between the two.
Happy christmas Paul. Last ride date dec 5. Put the cbf away. Too cold in western Canada. The old Canadian m c mechanic
I will make enquires and see how much he wants for the motor. Cheers.
Great topic Paul, my cassic 612 conversion bitsa is a poor mans Gold Star, could never afford a gold star and would be afraid to ride it hard, notwithstanding the gold star foibles my enfield is easy to start has a five speed box, has your cam retard tweak and is faster than I'm comfortable riding it ! Merry christmas !!
I want BSA to bring back the A65 Lightning.
Best wishes, Paul, for Christmas and the new year and thank you for your videos.
Thanks and the same to you!
You ever worked on a unit Bullet Paul? I'm on the look out for one..
Hi Jeremy, yes, I did a full engine and gearbox rebuild on one, probably 10 years or so back, and before I started making the videos unfortunately. It went very well, I saw 70 mph while sat up and with little over half throttle while running it in!
@@paulhenshaw4514 Thanks. The only comment I found stated the clutch struggled a bit. I want one for my dotage. Had a Crusader at College
Out of interest, what rev limiter do you have on the Enfield? I tried to find an aftermarket rev limiter and none of them were suitable for a single cylinder. I went through a phase of bending pushrods if I fluffed a gearshift and thought a rev limiter might help prevent that... although I've solved the problem now by making a set of pushrods out of real metal.
Ours was supplied to order by Rex Caunt and it was built into the CDI / coil unit which is fed by the self generating electronic ignition fitted in place of an alternator. We had to go back to single spark for technical reasons which I am not conversant with, but that turned out not to be a problem in any case.
Hi Paul, my old man was a big fan of yours, sadly just passed 93 leaving me with 2 x 350 bullets one dated 53/54 and one 54 frame engine 1961, I'm putting them up for sale as none of us can maintain them and don't want them sat rotting as he had his bike before us kids and I'm 47, just wondering if you could help me on a kick start problem they've been sat in garage this Yr not really run but as I'm trying to kick it over I cant always find top dead center as it feels it drags ,I'm reading up its a wet clutch ? It was running well just before he took ill February time, thanks for any info,Tom
Hi Tom, sorry about your Dad. It sounds like the clutch is slipping when compression is met, quite common on Bullets to varying degrees. It might be that the engine has wet sumped and let oil into the clutch [primary] case, which can be a cause when a machine has been stood a while. Hope this helps.
@paulhenshaw4514 thanks Paul I'll check it out thanks Tom
i see you have a steering damper fitted to the enfield, whats your opinion of their use on a road bike, many say oh not necessary at all, but do they smooth out road and rider inputs for a safer ride?
My brother seems to think they help on the race track - whether they do, or whether it is just a placebo, I am not sure, but when he's happy on a bike, he goes well, so it is worth having one fitted just for that!
How much do you adjust the ignition timing by when you increase the CR Paul?
Not much, if at all, there is an optimum spot no matter what state of tune a certain engine might be in. Using the RE 500 Bullets as an example, I usually keep within 35 - 38 degrees BTDC @ full advance, while the 350 Bullets can take and like a couple of degrees more advance. If an engine's timing has to be backed off from the optimum to combat pinking, other factors such as inlet valve timing should be considered.
The element lacking at Royal Enfield back in the day was you. You were born too late. 😂
Wow, thanks!
Dear Paul,
You mentioned that that your bullet racer got 5 speed gear out of an Youngtimer Indian bullet. I own a series 2 Interceptor 750 from 1970 will this 5 speed conversion also work for my machine and if yes does it fit without adaptations? I also have concerns if a 5 speed gear box designed for a 500er single can cope with the power of the 750er twin.
Cheers Laura
Hi Laura, the Indian 5 speed gearbox is very strong and should fit and bolt on, but I am not sure if the mainshaft would be long enough, as the 4 speed singles and the twins had slightly different mainshaft lengths, to move the clutch over to the left a little more for the twins, so a one off mainshaft or clutch centre might be required. also, you would need the right side gearchange conversion, but this could all probably be done.
Dear Paul, thanks a lot for your expertise. Have a merry good Christmas.
This all comes down to cylinder head design, valve sizes, valve angles, combustion chamber shape, port downdraght angle and shape. Possibly the Enfield has a better head design than the Goldie, despite all of the development that went into the Gold Star.
The heads, valves, ports etc are remarkably similar, as it happens.
Paul : What do think you think of the RF Fury ? Late 70s I tried to buy a Fury but could not make a deal. They had a 1-3/8 GP carb on them. It would have been interesting to compair a Fury to the DBD 34 Goldie and The Velo Venom clubman I had at that time. The Fury I was looking at was in scrambles trim. Was in southern Califorina so maybe a desert race bike? Who knows.
Our RE 500 racer has an engine based on the Fury, they had a 1 1/2" GP carb - as used on our 350 with Fury head. They could certainly match the power of a DBD34, but their alloy conrods could break ...
@@paulhenshaw4514 Another Enfield tuner used to advertise fitting G80 conrods.
Pretty sure the one I was looking had 1-3/8 carb on it but ,that WAS 40+ years ago. It was the only one I ever seen,must not been many made/sold.
Why were you disqualified?
For having a gearbox of 'the wrong shape' ...
@paulhenshaw4514 sounds jealous bullshit, that's what happens when you start winning
Hello Paul, i know of a guy locally and he offered me a big head fury Royal Enfield motor not long ago. Any Interest ? Cheers.
Possibly - at a reasonable price!
Road racing on methanol?
Yes, it is permitted in the British Historic Racing club [VMCC racing].
It could have been a lot better.
have a good christmas paul
Thanks, you too!