My Zoom F6 Line-out Noise Workaround
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- čas přidán 22. 08. 2024
- In a recent video by Curtis Judd talking about the Zoom F6's line out noise issue, • Zoom F6 Line Out Issue... , he proposed 2 workarounds for the problem. Using a Line to mic attenuator cable, or setting your camera to line level input and running the output at line level.
However, if you don't have a camera with a line in, and you don't have an attenuator cable (yet), you're not completely out of luck. You can get acceptable results by running the lowest possible gain on your camera, and the least amount of attenuation on the F6 while still using a standard TRS patch cable.
Just how acceptable?
In reviewing the audio that I recoded for this video, the noise floor in my recording environment was clearly the limiting factor. Both the camera recorded line out scratch audio and the F6's internally recorded 32-bit float audio recorded in the F6 had nearly the same dynamic range used (~ 46.5 dB), nearly the same peak loudness (~ -3.2 dB), and minimum RMS ( -64 dB for the camera, -62dB for the internal file). The differences being entirely within margin of error for how I matched the camera's gain to the recorder.
In this video, I'll show you how to setup the F6's line out to send scratch audio to a Canon EOS 5D mark 4 without using a attenuator cable, while maintaining a good enough signal to still be used either as is or for syncing your 32-bit files in post production.
#Zoom F6 #Workaround
Good find, this is actually a not the f6 problem but those cameras that dont have line inputs. camera makers should do switchable line/mic inputs instead. Thanks anyway i'm buying an attenuator cable. I just bought the f6 off the second market where the owner is frustrated about the line out being hard on his camera. I bought it for 100 dollars. lol
To be fair, while it would great for most mirrorless cameras to be able to take line and mic level signals. I don't think it's really fair to say this isn't an F6 problem. Zoom advertises that the F6's line out can be internally attenuated to mic level. Technically, it can; but doing so cuts the dynamic range by at least half.
@@PointsInFocus Yeah they should not claim something that is not.
Good information! I just canceled the order I placed for an attenuator cable! Thanks!
Hi thanks for this interesting workaround. I am interested to know what XLR adapter you used to get the RODE wireless to connect to the Zoom F6. I am interested in getting 6 RODE wireless GOs connecting to a Zoom F6. do you think I can avoid interference between the RODE receivers? what are your thoughts?
I use Rode's VXLR adapter, but anything comparable to it should work. You don't need the VXLR+, since you don't need the phantom to plugin-in power conversion capability, but that would also work just as well too.
As for using multiple wireless go's together, I don't have any first hand experience with that. However, I don't see why it shouldn't work. Rode claims that 8 pairs of Wireless GOs can be used in the same location, and I don't see any reason that proximity of the receivers to each other should matter. They're 2.4 GHz digital devices anyway, so they already have to deal with interference from WiFi, Bluetooth, microwave ovens, and so forth as it is, so as long as you stay under Rode's limit I don't see why it wouldn't work. If you try this and do have problems, I'd love to know.
Hope that helps.
Points in Focus thanks for the info. I will let you know how I get on.
Perfect! this is the best solution. thanks a lot.
Glad it helped!
Thanks for the explanation, very useful 👍
Glad it was helpful!
Sweet
Awesome explanation! Thank you for this!
Glad it was helpful!
Thank you so much sir.
Although your video a hiss sound to it sir ?
The "hiss" you hear in this video is actually room noise. Mostly I think it's coming from the fans in my workstation, but there are several sources of noise that I'm either unwilling or unable to turn off to lower the room's noise floor any further.
@@PointsInFocus it’s strange though because I have the same exact thing going on with my set up I have a F6, a cloud lifter, running into a Canon 5D Mark four… If I’m listening to the headphones, which are not a high-quality, I cannot hear the hiss but if I make a recording to an SD card or using the line out straight to camera… I get that same exact hiss.... Do you think Curtis as a soundproof room that he’s films in or something?
Are you completely certain that is what’s going on?
If I remember correctly, Curtis does a lot of his video work in a basement that's been treated with sound blankets. I'm working in a room that's not treated at all (though I should really look into doing something about that) and has a ton of hard surfaces (including floors) to bounce noise around. According to the app "dB meter" on my iPhone, my noise floor is around typically around 38-40 dB-A.
In my case, yes, I'm certain the hiss in my videos is due to room noise. For example, if I turn off my wireless mic system and make a recording, it's dead silent.
Hi Jason, thanks for your clear explanation! I'm about to purchase a Zoom F6 to use with my Canon R6. I would like to connect these two via a Rode Wireless Go transmitter / reciever. My question is: do you think that in setting the Rode Wirelss Go to the lowest gain setting (-24 dB), it would act in the same way as an attenuator cable? Thanks in advance for your reply!
I had my gear sitting on my desk, so I just checked. It looks like you'll want to use an attenuator cable in that configuration.
Using the -6 dB test signal from the F6, the level meter on my Wireless Go Rx unit is clipping if I feed an unattenuated signal into it from the F6 - this should show at about -6 dB. I had to add about 30 dB of attenuation to get it to show about -6 dB on the receiver's meter. However, I only looked at the meters, I didn't listen to the signal.
If you want to feed a signal back to the camera using the Wireless GO, and you need it for more than scratch audio, then you'll want to use an attenuator cable. If you're just using this for scratch audio to sync in post, you might be able to get away with setting -30 dB on the F6's line out and see if that works in your environment. It will reduce the dynamic range, but you'd have about 66dB of working range and so as your levels are good (peaking around -12 dB) that probably would be a clean enough signal to for waveform sync to work in post.
Hope that helps.
Hmm yet to try it. Thanks.
thanks for this. can i use the zoom f6 or the mixpre-3 ii with the rode video mic pro + via the 3.5 jack? are there limitations to this quality wise compared to using a xlr shotgun mic? thanks so much for your thoughts.
Sort of... With the F6, you'll need to use a 3.5mm to XLR adapter (like the Rode VXLR) to plug the Video Mic Pro into the XLR inputs, as there's no 3.5mm input . You'll also need to insure that you turn off phantom power for that input. I don't have a mixpre-ii, but I think it has a 3.5mm mic in that you can use without an adapter.
As for quality limitations. The only real limitation is that if you need to use a long extension cable between the mic and the recorder (like more than a few feet), then it's possible for the cable to pick up interference because the mic doesn't produce a balanced signal. Otherwise, a mic is pretty much a mic. I used a Video Mic Pro with a 8-16 foot long 3.5mm cable hooked up to a Zoom H4n or Tascam DR-60d before I got the F6 and I never personally ran into interference issues.
Hello Jayson. Thank you for sharing your work around. I'd like to get get to know which TRX cable you have used to connect Zoom f6 to Canon microphone? What you've mount on the top of your zoom F6? It would be great if you response. Best regards from Germany.
On top of the F6 in the video I have the included camera mount adapter (that's the mental plate that everything is attached to and it comes with the F6). Clipped to the front of that is a Rode Wireless Go receiver for my lav mic. The knob you see behind the Wireless Go receiver is from a generic arca-swiss style quick release clamp that I used to mount the F6 to a rail that hangs it under my camera.
As for connecting the F6 to the camera. You can use any standard 3.5mm TRS (tip ring shield) cable with two male plugs.
Hope that helps.
@@PointsInFocus Thanks Jayson.
Can I use the F6 as preamp in 32 bit float.for mic or line in (Fuji x-t4)
You could, but I wouldn't.
If you're not recording, the FP32 mode doesn't really matter. It essentially just changes how levels are set internally, but not really anything else, but because you're not using the FP32 files, you still have to set levels for your mics appropriately. Moreover, the dynamic range is going to be limited by the line out DACs and the noise issues talked about in this video.
So yea, it'll work in a pinch, but the F6 isn't really optimal for it.
@@PointsInFocus Thanks
Hi Jason thank you for the tips,did you mange to try it with the eos R5? Is it the same setting and values? Thanks
I just did a quick test and the R5 appears to behave differently than the 5D mark IVs do.
For my output level of 20.5 dB, it looks like I need 5 clicks of gain on the R5 to put the -6dB test tone at -6dB.
However, I'm not sure if the R5 is doing the gain control the way the 5D4 does. When I increase the gain of the test tone on the F6, I don't see a similar increase in gain on the level meter on the R5. I'll need to dig into this a lot more to understand what's exactly is going on though.
So after doing a little more digging, the EOS R5 is definitely doing something different than the 5D mark IV in how it handles manual gain with the audio. And using this technique results in clipping the signal above -6 db.
I'm going to put a video up about this instead of trying to explain it all here. But my early impression is that you will need to adjust the technique I described here to work properly with the R5.
@@PointsInFocus Thanks so much Jason for taking the time to explain :) I'm a bit worried I don't want to blow my preamps in the camera :D will be waiting for your update take care)
If you're only using the F6 with the R5 (that is you're not splitting the line out to multiple cameras), then the best option for you would probably be to buy a -50 dB attenuator cable and run the F6's output at full line level.
Something like this Sescom cable amzn.to/36tb9U4 (affiliate link). With that set the F6's line out to 0 dB attenuation, and adjust the gain on your camera to get the -6 dB tone to about -6dB on the level meter. The signal the camera is getting will be mic level, so there's no risk of overloading anything.
If you can't find a -50 dB attenuator, or you already have one with less attenuation, you can use one with a less attenuation and apply the difference to the F6's built in attenuation. For example, if you have a -35 dB pad, you can use that and set the F6's output to -15 dB and that will have the same affect as using the full -50 dB pad.
@@PointsInFocus Thank so much Jason :) yeah mainly I will be using the zoom f6 with the R5 as a back up track for syncing or when it's a small shoot , so that cable that you sent me is -35 only right? you said the best one is -50? I made a quick search but there is not -50 only -35 or -25 not sure if I should get the one that you send me or search for -50 instead thanks)
hi zoom f6 line out noise to fix this need -30 db cable to convert signal from line level to mic level