Atari ST - 1980s Reliable and Sophisticated Music Production
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- čas přidán 5. 09. 2024
- The Atari ST was the first computer to feature MIDI in and out as standard, dating all the way back to 1985. Smart thinking indeed....
Here, I put the Atari through its paces with Cubase version 2 (from 1989) and a Roland SC-880 sound module (a mere child at 1997...). Later on in the session, I include a MIDI timecode driven Fostex D-160 (also a 1997 whippersnapper) to record some audio over the top of the MIDI sequenced work.
The Atari works, works, works and still works. Its job is simple but powerful in the creation of your music. I've had it for 20 odd years, and it was ragged daily before that. Goodness knows how many songs it has made. At a third of a century old, it shows no signs of giving up...
You could think of it as GarageBand version 0.0!
Enjoy, share and subscribe to my channel...
The machine is still in use by producers. The MIDI timing is unmatched.
who?
While I'm sure that the MIDI timing on the ST was great, matching it these days isn't really an issue, especially since the MIDI throughput was only 31250 baud, so its resolution was pretty poor by today's standards. Still, it remains very usable, evidently.
@@antiphlexI don't know the technicalities of it but in my experience, my old Atari ST 1040 with cubase(midi only version) was rock solid for performance, editing and quantising etc. You could also send out program changes to your synths.
My experience with the included midi sequencing on more modern DAW's has always been plagued with bugs and problems.
I would imagine that many of those problems are due to CPU issues with modern computers having to process so much more information with a DAW as opposed to a dedicated midi computer and program like the ST/cubase combination.
@@mancuniancandidatem Oh geez I wonder how anyone has ever managed to made music since the Atari's went out of style, we must be crazy out here. Shutup boomer, its a nice piece of music history and thats it.
Can we take a moment to appreciate the producers from back in the day had to learn all this stuff through trial end error and lots of reading of manuals. No googling available!
Definitely. It was fun though.
+1
I bet the quality of the technical writing played a role in it's difficulty.
I'm self-taught at Ableton, and i answered all my questions with the Info box and flipping through the manual. God bless that info box. But the manual is very well written too. It's written so a beginner could understand, but spiced in with creative suggestions and when necessary, it will hint at the programming implementation to give the tech-savvy producers insights into resource conservation.
I can imagine that the manuals for older programs were written by computer programmers, so it was likely not organized and structured to make it friendly and easy for a musician that had never touched a computer. I bet some knowledge of computer programming was a must in order to learn music software back then. Pretty evident by the widespread use of tracker software in the early '90s.
i spent some time playing with irq dma channels back before plug and play . plug and pray . i i wanted an ST so badly , but i ended up with pc as i had a pal who constantly upgraded . my first rig was an 8088 with no HD cakewalk 3.1 . Iove digital btw . you wont hear me badmouthing it and championing tube amps and analog which is an excuse. its music ... make it .
It was fun though, well mostly. My home was like the Atari helpline at times. I've had people call me from all over the country, God knows where they got my number from. The calls always started the same way. "I hear you know a bit about Ataris (and Cubase)" Lol
It was great fun chatting with other enthusiasts/producers, and often I learned as much as I gave out.
Happy days!
The Atari community is still very alive and well -- people are not only clinging to their original ST computers, but there are folks re-spinning some of the designs to modern standards where the monitor outputs are HDMI and CPU upgrades like the 68060, USB support, Ethermet, etc... and not just projects like the MiSTer FPGA system, but real bare metal designs. It's kind of incredible.
Used to have a ST and a Falcon. Made my first CD on a Falcon. Loved them! Had Cubase running on it. Worked like a charm.
I still have my Atari ST, monitor and Cubase in my loft. This brought back so many good memories. I remember having my Yamaha CS1X connected and a mixing desk and an orbit etc...
Now, I have loads of channels etc, but I have never had a computer as stable as the Atari for music.
Cheers for uploading this....
I'm newcomer, but my gut wants that combo so i'm going to get it! Pendulum swings are real, and i heard few producers that said they are about to start using it more after feeling the joy that it gives.
Saved for months to buy a 1040ST specifically for its MIDI capabilities. Very nostalgic listening to the clicks and seeing Cubase 2. Thanks!
Extremely flexible midi sequencing.
This" funk box" still gets the job done.
Good to see the STs flag being waved still. It's timing was tight!
Nice video. As an Atari fan, I wish the ST was the first MIDI computer, but that honor technically goes to an 8 bit MSX machine, a Yamaha. The big difference is the ST being 16 bit, High res, and the most important part is that MIDI on the ST runs on a hardware interrupt making its performance rock solid.
What people fail to realize is the routing of cables. You make it look easy :) Atari the tightest sequencer. The Roland sc-880 sounds pretty good still. Thanks for the vid
I used to see artists home studios in the long defunct Musicians magazine back in the day. I always wondered why the EDM folks and DJ's still used Atari ST's.. NATIVE MIDI! Basically used it as a graphical sequencer, something people who use modern DAWS take for granted. Awesome to actually one demonstrated in action.
I sure am learning to not things for granted!
This is how i first started, thank you for the nostalgic memories
I love your Joy and stank face when you found the right piano sound 😄👍🎶
You sound so much like Neil Buchanan, not so much the accent but the way you explain things. I used to watch Art Attack as a kid, so hearing your voice here is SO comforting. Thank you for this wonderful content.
Wow. The audio world equivalent of Neil Buchanan (top scouser) is a MASSIVE compliment.
Thank you very much! I got the same set-up back in the days. Cheers!
Just bought myself an STfm. Looking forward to using it for sequencing my MIDI gear
That Unitor 8 never seems to age. Most reliable kit ever built.
I’ve just picked up a 1MB ST with Cubase v3. Thanks for the excellent introduction!
Atari and music forever!
Congratulations.
thank you for this, a trip down memory lane, RISC processors were amazing
This is not running on a RISC processor. This Atari ST is running on an 8 megahertz CISC processor, a Motorola model 68000 CPU. The same processor as the Commodore Amiga, the original Macintosh, and others.
RISC processors came along a bit after the 68000 era.
To put the 68000 in perspective, while many times more powerful than the MOS 6502 8-bit CPU in the Commodore 64 and Atari 800, the 68000 is less powerful than a Raspberry Pi, by a factor of over 1000 times. What programmers were able to achieve with limited resources is truly amazing.
@@warp9988 thank you , I stand corrected.
This is a journey into sound stereophonic sound.
They don't know the struggles we had back then. 👀
Love the video
I had an Atari ST back in the day (and I LOVED it) It was a leap forward for music production. I always found it to be very reliable and intuitive.
You should sent this video to Steinberg they’re doing a @Cubase anniversary
Nice - I'll try it!
:)
In regards to music, ST's were a well designed army of unbeatable beasts. MIDI usage / utilization got to a whole new level with these computers, both professionally as well as on amateur / hobby level.
❤️ my first computer ❤️
This brings back so many memories of the ST. I remember doubling the memory to 1040kb so I could run Cubase.
Lovely video Dan. Also, how true your statement. I have been tidying my loft this week and found 7 Atari ST1040s. I was a compulsive hoarder, and did all my music on these things using E Magic Notator. (not rock but classical stuff).
Seven! My goodness me! They’re fantastic machines though and all seven will boot up straightaway I’ll bet!
Trip down memory lane. I had one of these and recorded audio onto a Teac 8 track cassette where you'd have to stripe one of the tracks (track 8 I think) using smpte. I couldn't believe how sophisticated it all was. A recording studio in your bedroom! Luxury.
I remember these days. I ended up changing from my ST to an IBM clone running the old DOS version of Cakewalk.
What about sound characteristics?
Thank you for memories 30 years ago ... Atari lives!
Thanks for the memories! Even just the noise of the mouse makes me feel all fuzzy and warm.
I was done some remixes on Atari ST, at early 90`s. Was amazing. Lot of hardware, expensive, but it was cool. Love it, congrats.
You made me cry when you said "a third of a century old" ! ;-)
Life gets faster as we get older....:-(
Brings back great memories..My local recording studio had one of these,
connected via midi was a Yamaha DX7 we mainly used the Atari for click tracks with a drum machine and used MIDI channel 16 for the Smpte code to sync the Tapes brilliant
You are wrong sir , the first computers standard equipped with midi busses were Yamaha cx5m and some associated msx computers , the St was the first 16 bit computer to have these standard
This has been sooooo nice to watch. Thanks. I first used cubase 3 but quickly moved on and on and on but started wondering about the older versions.
That brought back memories. Great stuff!!
I loved my Atari STe. Midi ports and all that. I remember using the first version of Cubase and Sequencer One. Memories. 😅
I’m sure this is what I first made music on with my mate and I still have backup floppies he gave me to store ‘off-site’. They’re in my loft!
You got some treasure in your loft buddy. :)
Those 3.5" floppies are prone to data loss over time. Back them up!
Nice, I distinctly remember updating my 520s floppy drive to DOUBLE sided ... luxury ...
Still got mine. Midi rock solid timing. Better than my PC.
Had this. I had the Atari st Gold...It was great ! Shouldn't have sold it !!
thx for this video - exakt with this stuff i start recording - atari 1040st - notator dongle and a tascam msr 16 - when i listen to the old recordings today - still sounds great - your video is a journey back in time
Glad you enjoyed it!
Still got my ST at the attic, extended to 2MB RAM, along with an external 20MB (1,000 Bucks in 1988) hard drive and a DAW called Creator\Notator (which is now Logic).
Just a reminiscing piece of good ol' days.
Yes, I'm one of the hoarders. :D
Thx 4 bringing those memories back.
I had a 1024 ST running Steinberg’s Pro24 with a Roland D10.
AMAZING!
Oh man you bring me back to 1990 and my Atari 1040 STe and Cubase... good times ;)
Fascinating...I started with a Fostex X15 cassette based portastudio when they first came out and stayed with that technology until buying a Yamaha AW2816 back in the early 2000's...I was soooo reluctant and daunted to make the leap into DAWs but gradually eased myself in with Cubase SL around 2002 so I missed all these Atari ST shennanigens...First time I saw a DAW proper was in 1997 on an Apple Mac running Logic, was blown away by it and realised this was the future of recording...Thanks for this upload....
Very good video! I spent years and years working this way (with ADAT) and I still have my ST FM 1040 and monitors in both black and white and color. In fact, I sometimes consider whether to go back to working this way instead of PC.
still got mine from back in the days - never wanted to give it away. there‘s also a great speech sinulator that came with it - thats mostly why I kept it 😀
Ah yes - the famed speech simulator! The whole shabang was way ahead of its time...
Excellent!
Slater Slater you put as hard drives in STS? How? I’m looking for the best way to upgrade my 520st
Couldn't afford Steinberg Pro/Cubase or any synths at the time. Trackers and chip tunes for me!
Good stuff
A lack of tools really makes the mind get creative 👍
brings back memories dan,i had the atari 1040ST and cubase 24,since then,the daws are lucky for us,so much better LOL
Pro 24, cubase came later
@@georgeg4136 i stand corrected,yep,you're right,and before i also had the pro 12,brings back memories
Another Amiga guy here! Should't be watching this video! ;-) You bring me down to memory lane!
Awesome Video, Thanks for sharing , Fab memories...
Excellent video. Brings back lots of memories. Thanks 👍
Why do i have a feeling that i need this..
I enjoyed every second of this video ❤️🔥🔥🙏🏽
You are Appreciated
I have never stopped using sound modules. That Roland SC-880 is basically an SC-88 Pro in the form of
a rack mount module, I have the SC-88 Pro which is still one of my main sound modules. My midi controller
is the same age as my SC-88 Pro. I use a Yamaha UX-16 USB to midi interface. I have bought more sound
modules and drum machines this year including a Roland U-220, Alesis SR-16 and a Roland R-8.
Excellent video, took me back to 1992 when I was first getting into music technology, good times :-)
Ahh brings back memories. I was more of a Notator person than Cubase. Cubase IMO ( coming for hardware sequencers and dance music/techno/house/breaks) sounded a bit flat in the timing department. Plenty of people used Cubase for dance tracks though. For sure.
I used this computer with Cakewalk 1.1 in 1994 in college. Memories
4:58 I am not sure about Cubase, but the other big MIDI program on the Atari ST - C-Lab's Notator - you can display the music notation as it's being played/recorded. This feature was its claim to fame as it was the first program to ever be able to do that. This and the unique "Arrange" interface is what made it popular for some musicians. That's also how the program got its name. :)
I still remember in 1990, some prominent Mac "MIDI expert" in Keyboard magazine was whining about how he wished there was program that could notate music as it was played. The Atari ST doesn't get the respect it deserves (especially in the US).
Thank you Dan for making this video.
notator/ creator is the grandfather of logic
I love this video.. sending love from Slovakia!
This was my first sequencer and also my first computer before going to studio vision on a Mac
I love how dusty everything looks in this video
That's BRILLIANT! (I'm not really a brit, I've just wanted to say that)
Cheers! 😂
I was really amused!!! THX for that nice video. I still got a atari too! Love to use it.
Long live the Atari! Thanks for watching...
Loved my Amiga in the 90s, the no distractions thing is still a rule. ST, MC,MPC, QY..they are all good choices. 🖖
My QY300 is a POS. Cool sounds though
Good to finally see an ST in action in its most acclaimed role.
Obviously it's inherent sound was primitive but it could be used as computer-based controller for equipment that produced nicer sounds.
The Amiga might have just by itself been able to produce tunes with sampled sounds albeit limited to 4 tracks, but I can see why a musician would view an ST as a computerised MIDI device but an Amiga as just a computer.
Doesn't make the ST a better machine overall but the engineer who convinced Jack Tramiel to add it had the foresight to extend the abilities of this type of computer.
Another question can be raised here. ST was behind A LOT of music productions. And it may as well be commercially the most sucesfull computer of that era.
@@valantj Amiga and ST sales were actually close with Amiga having the edge.
Although in the music production market we can safely assume the ST dominated.
Source:
amigalove.com/viewtopic.php?t=131
@@android584 Those numbers seem bit suspect, however, and somewhat low overall, especially for ST. About 4 million Amigas sold seems tad low, given that Commodore claimed to have sold over a million Amiga 500's in Germany alone. Also there are other inconsistencies: Commodore's own admission was that they shipped only 35,000 Amigas in 1985, far short of 100k claimed by Reimer. Also, Atari said that in its 1988 financial report that ST sales were up, contrary to what Reimer claims.
Very nice! Me actually starting MIDI with my 1040... Keep on!!
Norman Cook still used the Atari ST.
Nice video, I don’t miss those days though. The gear was so expensive back then. Cabling was not a big deal except you need a lot of it. The pigging backing of midi devices from one to another via the midi caused further lag. Hence I bought a emagic Unitor 8 when it came out which I noticed in your rack but it requires usb. I had cubase on a Mac in the 90s with a single midi in and out.
Yes totally!
ATARI made MIDI composing available to the average user, AMIGA made Sampling & tracker based composing available to the average user (which often were teenagers at home after school). Both machines revolutionized and democratized music making as they made it possible for everyone at home for a couple of hundred bucks, without any need for a recording studio.
gonna have a talk about this bad boy tomorrow, thanks for all the info!
Ha! Glad it helped...
Good to see. You've got this worked out and I like your musical feel, even if you are just slapping down dummy tracks.
I'm doing much the same with a Yamaha QY700 sequencer. But like many other sequencers it can't do MTC out so I have to slave it to the audio recorder instead. Which doesn't really "feel" right when the structure of the song is really on the sequencer. I might instead try using my Roland MC-80 (which can do MTC) and work like you are here. Ah, if only new computers were so stable and enjoyable to work on!
aanon2550 thanks very much for watching! It’s a tricky one with slaving between sequencers and recorders-there is something incongruous about it...
@@DanBakerMusic Yeah, the only time I really felt my recording setup was perfectly "natural" was back when it was only a 1-inch 16 track. I knew nothing about MIDI back then, so there was never information in two places and it was all the same type of stuff (audio). No split brain! There also wasn't all that much to do except use ears and fingers to lay down new performances.
That said, I really like MIDI now. It helps me do things I can't do :-). It's just DAWs and the experience of using general-purpose PCs to make music that really kill my creative urges. If I was just recording other people, I would embrace them I suppose.
p.s. For anyone looking for a nice hardware combo, I'm having great results now with Roland MC-80 sequencer and AKAI DPS-16 recorder, with the sequencer as MTC master. This video gave me the idea to try this setup, and it's been a lot of fun.
Really like your stuff mate! Keep it comming.
I still use an Atari Mega 4 for all sequencing duties. Nothing beats it. Plug ins suck.
i had the 1040 ste and "Replay 16" ? back in the day...... I had lots of fun with that and its external sound card trying to make music!!!!, i had a decent keyboard but never did much with that....it was great for sampling tracks and looping for ideas, pretty much become the staple of early house and garage music.... still got some stuff i transferred to tape back then :P
The thing I like about all this kit is the extra thought processes required, which rubs off in the music..
We used 2 1040STFM’s live with a switch between them. The sequencer we used could load 10 songs into the first 10 function keys (giving us comfortably 2 sets of 7 or 8 tracks without having to wait for things to load). The software allowed us to edit the notes, but only as numbers, so back then, I REALLY understood MIDI. I’ve been trying to remember what that software was called though - does anyone remember it?
Is it Octamed?
@@RennieDJ No - I've never heard of that one
La la lalala lala!
Just checked and Atari ST systems on Ebay are going for about $800 US these days. Complete with disk drive, and monitor.
Great! Where are you from? I'm spanish and usually it's difficult to understand in english, but your accent is perfect for me. I understand all!
Gracias Jose! I’m in the UK. Glad my accent makes it understandable..
Nice one, thank you!
The good thing is when the poor old Atari breaks, for around the same price as an eBay Atari a new Atari is ready at Retro Lemon! It’s called MiST! Built in MIDI, nice metal case, modern FPGA, more RAM and storage options and most importantly a modern mouse and display!
Great Video. Had an Atari ST back in the days. Good memory.
You mention an „Atari 4000“ somewhere im the text. Maybe you mean the Atari Falcon or the STE. I don‘t know about a 4000 model.
However, I do not mean to criticize, Thanks for this video!
Cheers.
He is probably talking about "Atari 4160 STe", with 4MB RAM. It exists. It's just STe with 4MB RAM.
Cubase Version 2, epic!!!
Two most important keys on an ST? Control 'S'. Keep backing up - always keep backing up.
I always wondered why you had that old computer monitor in the background there. lol
I've stumbled across this and your other videos and must say that I am enjoying going back in time to when I used my ATARI 1040STe to produce my MIDI backings in my home recording basement.
I appreciate your enthusiasm & love for older gear, I still have all my ATARI gear (...yes, I'm one of those hoarders you mentioned in this clip ,,, hahaah ) and it all still functions, yes - like clockwork. I also used CUBASE v1 then v2 and loved every sequencing minute of it.
Oh, ALL those Floppies ....
Here's a question for you, hoping to stump you: ...do you know what Sequencer Steinberg had before CUBASE ... ?
( ... now this is showing my age, but it was the first sequencer I used back in the late 80's before the release of CUBASE )
... Long Live The Oldies ... kind regards Joe from the other side of the World ( Tasmania / Australia )
Steinberg Pro24?
Great demo Dan.
Wish my ST mouse still worked. :-(
SmpteTrack was a great program for the ST, also.
The 128k Spectrum had MIDI as standard before the ST but it had an obscure port and came with an adaptor cable for MIDI DIN IN/OUT
MadCommodore ST available in July ‘85. Speccy 128k in September. Moot point either way.
@@videooblivion For me the ST was launched about the same time at the PCW Show 1985 (both shown live on TV from the show on trade day when I was there) but the ST hardware doesn't stifle talent like a 3.5mhz Z80 Spectrum with low resolution.
Demoscene would argue that 1 MB is ok to work with sounds. Just reduce the sample rate accordingly. Just watch the compression border or it’ll get flat.
well the volca sample only uses 4 megabytes and you really can fit several sounds, but the sounds are pretty compressed
@@bakerbakerbaker305 ok, how are they compressed?
@@kortkunig2291 there’s many ways but I exported them from old garage band to a very small bit rate after a certain point they sound like shit
Put your drums/timing dependend sounds on channel #1. Non time depended should go higher in channel number.
Midi defaults to drums on ch.10, I imagine that's why he left it that way
128 levels is great is you use physical modeling pianos...etc.. otherwise it's still pretty rough.
This also reminds me of every customer demo I've done from 1984-2000
I have an Atari 1040 STf and a 1990 Yamaha TG55. But i wonder if the ST would work fine with modern midi modules.
10:35
Actually double clicking on the part gets you into the key edit menu
I thought that from memory! But my version opens a part dialogue box instead? Can't seem to change that anywhere!
@@awkwardtom afaik there's an option to change what kind of Editor is used when double clicking on a part
@@mb2776 yeah I thought so but cannot find it anywhere in my version 2.01...
Great vid, nice to see the king of timing in use! Can you help me out with a question? I seem to remember that a double click on a part would open key edit instead my version 2.01 opens the part dialogue box instead cant find a setting anywhere to change that?
I'll do some digging!
Recorded quite a few tracks with my ST and cubase back in the days.
Still have the ST, but lost the monitor :-(
You can use a VGA monitor.
You can still get monitor out to SCART leads pretty cheap and just hook it up to a cheap LCD TV as long as it has SCART input.